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I wrote to HTC to ask how they measured their "up to 490 hours on Standby" and "up to 380 mins talk time" referred to in their HD2 website specification especially as people like myself were experiencing the battery going flat in <24 hours with almost zero usage of the phone.
Here's their official reply.
Thank you for your email. The specifications that you have referenced are laboratory test conditions, and are not indicative of real-world performance, nor do they take into account the considerable drain incurred by the myriad services and programs that run as a matter of course on Windows Mobile 6.5, as well as any other background applications that may be running, which may not be readily apparent. Please be advised that these laboratory test figures are in line with EU regulations concerning the testing of mobile device batteries, and the real-world battery time that you have quoted of 20-24 hours is well within what we would expect of this device. We have recently released a large capacity battery for use with the HD2, and this can be purchased from the following link :- http://www.htcaccessorystore.com/uk/p_htc_item.aspx?i=195058
So in simple terms, we mislead you in our advertising and you'll be lucky to get the battery to last 24 hours. We can't fix it so buy a bigger battery!
What's the point in publishing performance data that has no relationship to "real-world" conditions. Most customers won't be using the phone in a laboratory.
Perhaps we should start a new campaign to get HTC to be more honest about "real-world" expectations.
Bobins24 said:
What's the point in publishing performance data that has no relationship to "real-world" conditions. Most customers won't be using the phone in a laboratory.
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Because as they said that measurement procedure is a standard that everybody follows, so it would be stupid to do it differently, why "not lie" when everybody does so (and they actually probably wouldn't be allowed to do it differently).
Bobins24 said:
I wrote to HTC to ask how they measured their "up to 490 hours on Standby" and "up to 380 mins talk time" referred to in their HD2 website specification especially as people like myself were experiencing the battery going flat in <24 hours with almost zero usage of the phone.
Here's their official reply.
Thank you for your email. The specifications that you have referenced are laboratory test conditions, and are not indicative of real-world performance, nor do they take into account the considerable drain incurred by the myriad services and programs that run as a matter of course on Windows Mobile 6.5, as well as any other background applications that may be running, which may not be readily apparent. Please be advised that these laboratory test figures are in line with EU regulations concerning the testing of mobile device batteries, and the real-world battery time that you have quoted of 20-24 hours is well within what we would expect of this device. We have recently released a large capacity battery for use with the HD2, and this can be purchased from the following link :- http://www.htcaccessorystore.com/uk/p_htc_item.aspx?i=195058
So in simple terms, we mislead you in our advertising and you'll be lucky to get the battery to last 24 hours. We can't fix it so buy a bigger battery!
What's the point in publishing performance data that has no relationship to "real-world" conditions. Most customers won't be using the phone in a laboratory.
Perhaps we should start a new campaign to get HTC to be more honest about "real-world" expectations.
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What can i say........except that HTC should look in to the real world more often!
I use many phones, from htc, and from other company , my last two nokia phones was "business versions" with "everlasting" battery - first e65 least 40h , second - better version - only 22h ( e66) - it's normal - in this world
If HTC say it's a standard EU process, then perhaps we should campaign to get the EU standard changed as the current published figures give no indication of the phones real performance.
Don't get me wrong, I love the phone but I've never seen one like this go flat in such a short time when on standby.
i love how they say it lasts up to 490 hours on standby, but 24 hours is what they would expect
it's actually ridiculous how deceitful these companies are, we deserve better than this
it's not right that they lie right to our faces to what we are getting and how we have no rights
just not right.
I think we need a bit of a reality check here. I'm not especially inclined to defend HTC but they have a point about the stuff that may be running on the phone. Anyone who has tried some new toys must have encountered one that sucks the life out of the battery for no obvious reason - scale that down and extrapolate across a raft of apps that most of us here will have on our phones and you will get a host of variations in terms of battery life...which is exactly what we do get.
Secondly, as kilrah said, that's the way battery life is measured. Instead of whining about it we should treat it as a relative indicator against other phones because that's about all it is good for. I suspect most say 'up to...' in small letters in front of their stand by and talk times anyway.
If I were to buy a car because the specs say that it does 40 miles to the gallon I'd be a mug to expect it to do that when I'm thrashing down the motorway towing a trailer with the windows and sun roof open. But I might well buy it in preference to a car that claims 30 mpg because in the long run it will probably cost me less in running costs.
You pays your money and you takes your choice...I don't personally see any significant misrepresentation in this, but there may be a little end user misunderstanding?
Bobins24 said:
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No surprise here. I observed the same discrepancy on all my phones till now - Motorola, Nokia, Samsung, Siemens, Ericsson, Sony Ericsson, HTC.
Actually I use my phone a lot and I'm more than happy with its performance so far - huge and bright screen, powerful CPU... What are your expectations? 48 hours? A week?
If you think, this is something impressive, go and buy yourself a new monitor and then just measure the advertised contrast ratio - 10000:1 ? Seriously? In fact it is only 700:1. Nothing more to say.
Watch Out: Crazy Contrast Ratios
Exact. And especially on smartphones it's absolutely impossible for the manufacturer or a standards organisation to imagine how you will use your device.
If they can quote anything, it's stock configuration, open the box, put sim card in, press power on, enter your pin, put phone in standby, leave it there, note how long it lasts. That's all.
Knowing that you can do so many things on it, install so many programs that can do what they want to the phone, and that depending on usage the battery life can vary anywhere between 2 hours and 4 days it's totally impossible, by whatever means, to quote something realistic.
When you buy a WM device (or any other Lith-Ion device for that matter) you should know what to expect with regards to battery life, it's not rocket science.
Lithium-Ion batteries are poor, until battery technology is improved it's what we should have come to expect.
That's a bit simplistic, knowing that firstly there's nothing better yet, and secondly the good old phones we had that were lasting a whole week were also using the same batteries or even worse NiMH ones.
It's a combination of a lot of things.
battery life
I turned htc sense off on my phone and now the battery lasts 2-2.5 days with what i would deem reasonable use ie using the internet checking emails texting and 4 or 5 calls a day , if i turn sense back on the battery life drops to about 15 hours so i can live without sense !!! Im far more concerned about the speaker problems and pink photos than the battery )
kilrah said:
That's a bit simplistic, knowing that firstly there's nothing better yet, and secondly the good old phones we had that were lasting a whole week were also using the same batteries or even worse NiMH ones.
It's a combination of a lot of things.
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I assume you are replying to me?
After having 4 HTC devices, I didn't expect anything more from the HD2 than I got from the Wizard or my Kaiser or my Diamond, if anything it was obviously going to be poorer due to the huge screen, hardware and all the software I knew I would be using.
I think your best chance of getting their claimed hours would be by:
1. Completely charging the battery;
2. Use a bare-bone ROM with absolutely nothing installed
3. Switching off all radio signals.. (that is, put the phone in flight mode so that the phone is not transmitting like wireless, bluetooth or anything else at all...)
4. leaving the phone on standby with the screen off.
Of course, noone uses their phone like that, but HTC have used the term "up to" to protect themselves...
HTC would be stupid to change the way they rate their times since every other company is using the same method. I doubt anyone would want to buy a phone that says "Standby Up to 24hours" when every other phone has "Standby Up to 500hours" At best, the rated hours could be used as a comparison/indicator against other phones.
I'm celebrating two weeks into life with my HD2, and after suffering water damage with my HD which had no effect except to bring battery life down to 8 hours a day, I'm really pleased with my 24-28 hours of battery life.
On days I'm using it a lot, I expect 15 hours. However the other day I barely touched the phone (no calls, no music, no random turning on the screen) and I was on 65% after 24 hours, which I felt was good.
I agree with the OP, their quotes are a joke, but I don't look at specs, I look at reviewers to tell me "I expect a day's life from this phone" etc. when I choose a phone. With a screen this size I don't expect miracles, but again, it does feel like a blatant lie when they suggest the phone can sit for weeks without dying, and i give manufacturers (including HTC) no credit for being economical with the truth to their customers.
My SEX1 used to last a few hours more, having a smaller screen, larger battery, and less than half the processor. They specced same timings, as I said I got a few hours more. I doubt Iphone or any other manufacturer, will spec their device like, Standby time 24hrs, talk time 4 hrs. Who would buy such a device?
Anyway I didn't expect it to last any longer. Good thing is I'm in front of my pc for long hours, no harm in letting the phone plugged in.
Isn't draining the Li-Ion actually shortens the battery life?
I'm told that letting the battery get lower than 2.3v isn't a good thing.
Let the battery get low, but not low enough for auto-shutdown
It's called Business Opportunity
All companies all over the world is like HTC.
Whenever there is a problem, they will direct you to purchase something to "solve" the problem.
HD2 problem that we are facing is poor battery performance (if you enable non-Sense). "Solution" is to buy bigger capacity battery.
Problem : screen easily crack
HTC "solution" : tampered glass screen (if HTC would advertise...)
Problem : Screen too sensitive
HTC "solution" : special screen protector (if HTC would advertise...)
Problem : this, that, this , that,
HTC "solution" : you pay, we gain profit!
That's the real world scenario....
Conclusion : HTC = poor quality product(s) at expensive price.
rickyoon.vegas said:
I'm told that letting the battery get lower than 2.3v isn't a good thing.
Let the battery get low, but not low enough for auto-shutdown
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Auto forced shutdown is at 3.6V, which has a lot of margin not to cause damage.
HD2 problem that we are facing is poor battery performance (if you enable non-Sense). "Solution" is to buy bigger capacity battery.
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Sensible solution: if you want battery life of more than 1-2 days, do not get a smartphone, especially not one that has the fastest processor on the market and a 4.3" screen. And read reviews that will tell you "you'll get 1-2 days" and "it lasts just a bit more than an iphone". I.e. Educate yourself.
Problem : screen easily crack
HTC "solution" : tampered glass screen (if HTC would advertise...)
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Sensible solution: Realise you have a large piece of GLASS in front of you, and take care of it as such. Don't drop it, don't sit on it,...
We know how the HD2 behaves. If you read a couple of reviews, you know too. If you now buy it and still complain, there's not much we, or HTC, can do for you.
First off, apologies if this is a dupe, I did search before posting and saw nothing on this precisely.
Please read ALL this post before jumping to conclusions as the first bit may sound like an advert, it isn't, it is just setting out the background facts.
I have been reading these forums quite extensively, and last week purchased a new Samsung Galaxy S, on the Three network here in the UK.
I *was* looking at a Google/Samsung Nexus S, but last week the swingeing data allowance cuts hit, and basically everyone in the UK was cut to 500 megabytes a month.
My phone is on contract with Three.co.uk, the package is called "The one plan 2011"
For £35 a month I get 2,000 UK voice minutes any network any time, 5,000 3-to-3 UK minutes, 5,000 UK texts and "all-you-can-eat" data.
Three in the UK is fairly unique in that they have their own infrastructure / towers etc, which is probably why the can provide unlimited data.
The Galaxy S itself is I9000NEJP2 kernel 2.6.32.9 build froyo.nejp5, Kies did one firmware update the day I first got it.
Since then I have rooted it with z4root and applied OCLF.
Wifi set to cut off with screen, pure black background wallpaper, lots of GPS / navigation / wifi tools apps installed, push gmail.
No games installed, I do not use it like most people, I specifically bought it because it is essentially a super-portable mini linux computer with a vast array of connectivity features and many wildly useful android apps.
I would describe it as a tool, something I use.
Battery life is basically more or less as expected, last charged late last night, currently at 11:14 am showing 78% remaining charge.
I have a car charger for when using it in the car, I have a home charger for when using it at home, and of course it will pull some charge through USB when connected to the laptop that I am typing this on.
Of course the 1,500 mAh battery is replaceable too.
Basically battery endurance is what I expected, I fully expected to be able to flatten the battery in an hour or two by turning everything up to max, turning on all the candy, installing dozens of useless apps, and playing games and videos...
I am old enough to remember running ghetto blasters that took 10 x Duracell "D" cells that could be used up in as little as an hour if you whacked the volume and bass up...
The laptop I am typing this one is good for maybe two hours away from a charger if I hammer it playing crysis on full brightness etc.
So, the purpose of this post.
I have spent many years working on and with power consumption of computing devices, and by far the worst metric you could use when trying to chase something that was eating all the power was user feedback... no two users reported the same thing, not even on the same hardware.
power measuring devices also were pretty useless unless you could point them at individual components rather than a system as a whole.
I have solid 3g reception from Three, and when on wifi the router is in plain sight around 4 metres away, on a channel that no-one else nearby is using, which means that the wireless portion of *my* Galaxy S in *my* location doesn't have to work very hard at all, which means it doesn't draw much power.
Yes, it is a "smartphone", and there is no point buying a smartphone if you have to dumb it down to dumbphone levels to get it to run for more than an hour.
On the other hand, nobody said it could have everything turned up to 11 and it would last for 300 hours.
My heart goes out to INDEPENDENT (not samsung etc) developers and coders..
1/ they lack a suitable test suite that measures consumption by each circuit over time, so that they can determine the effects of code changes on power consumption.
2/ they lack empirical hard data on 2g/3g/2ifi signal strength for a wide variety of users.
3/ they lack an accurate users profile of many users, the old joke about cutting the arms off an italian makes then unable to speak, take the battery out of a modern phone and young people are zombies.
So, the REAL purpose of this post
Can I suggest (I can't code, not even to save my life) that development of apk's to record the above three items, which will give developers hard empirical data, would be a useful first step.
I have a contract with 3, provided I still get what I pay for, unlimited data so I can tether my laptop and access servers etc, I really don't give a **** about Kies / Samsung updates, I'm quite happy to wait until 2.3 is out for the Galaxy in these forums and upgrade what I see as my portable mini linux star trek computer myself, it will still work with my provider...
I myself would have no problems whatsoever volunteering myself, and the obviously increased power consumption of background monitoring apps, and any data so collected, for the common good.
If we could get a couple of hundred other to agree to this, then it becomes worthwhile for someone who can code to write these apk's, and the whole community benefits.
cheers
I was just wondering if this issue was unique to my device. Whenever I browse on 3G, any task from minute to high-energy consumption, I notice that the area right under the battery bay builds up heat without fail. It doesn't happen when I perform any other fiction on the device, just with 3G. The heat dissipates in a fairly reasonable amount of time, about twice the rate at which it builds.
For example, the list of forums on the XDA-Developers page takes about 2-3 minutes to load in its entierity, and by the time its done i can easily distinguish the top of the device from the bottom, simply because of the heat building in the lower part.
I'm trying to figure out why its happening and if its possibly a defect? I haven't made any modifications to my device thus far, with the exception of a few bumps and bruises as a result of my clumsiness, so should I exchange my unit? Or is it anything to worry about?
Heating up happens with all smartphones these days because of 1ghz processer so its normal however if it gets too hot the battery life could be shortened and the CPU life if they are close to each other. So I suggest that if it goes more than 40 C then you should turn it off. Also to get a rough idea of how hot 40 C is try it with water and see how hot it is.
Sent from my GT-I5800 using XDA App
MisterPhilleh said:
I was just wondering if this issue was unique to my device. Whenever I browse on 3G, any task from minute to high-energy consumption, I notice that the area right under the battery bay builds up heat without fail. It doesn't happen when I perform any other fiction on the device, just with 3G. The heat dissipates in a fairly reasonable amount of time, about twice the rate at which it builds.
For example, the list of forums on the XDA-Developers page takes about 2-3 minutes to load in its entierity, and by the time its done i can easily distinguish the top of the device from the bottom, simply because of the heat building in the lower part.
I'm trying to figure out why its happening and if its possibly a defect? I haven't made any modifications to my device thus far, with the exception of a few bumps and bruises as a result of my clumsiness, so should I exchange my unit? Or is it anything to worry about?
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Hi this happens on my phone as well. I have contacted Dell and they will be sending out a replacement to me.
I had a Droid Turbo for 1.5 years that got great battery life. I am a power user, and averaged between 4 and 4.5 hrs of SOT in a 16 hour day.
For no good reason, I decided it was time to get a new phone, and I chose the S7e SD 820 model based on the reviews. While the phone is pretty, there were two dealbreakers for me. First, the Edge screen is too sensitive given the way I hold a phone, even when using a case. I'd constantly open apps on the left side of the screen by accident. Or worse, make weird typos in emails. The second, and bigger issue, is mentioned ad nauseum on this forum - the US version has major Android System battery drain that has not been addressed. I spent hours and hours trying to get in touch with someone who could help me at Samsung. I was promised callbacks, fixes, etc.. But when there was no follow through and I'd call back, they acted like nobody had ever reported the problem before. I then tried tweeting Samsung support, and they responded... By telling me that their customer service dept on Twitter has absolutely no way to contact someone who can solve the android system issue. Finally, after calling several times, I got in touch w a US based tier 2 tech support agent, who also told me the issue had never been reported. He had an S7 on hand, picked it up, and noted that there was definitely a problem. He put in a ticket but said it wouldn't be addressed until enough people complained to trip their system. Given the challenges of dealing w Samsung, and my big priority of having a long lasting battery, I finally gave up hope and returned my s7e to Verizon. This is the first time in 20 years of cell phones that I've ever made a return.
I wanted my Droid Turbo back, but unfortunately, I turned that in when I got the S7e. So, I decided to get a DT2. I'd call it a fine phone. Nothing special that differentiated it from the original for me. In fact, battery life for me averaged about 3.5-4 hrs SOT, less than the original. If I'm going to spend $700 on a new phone it has to be significantly better than my previous one in the category that's most important to me, which is battery life. I don't watch much video on my phone, but I definitely use apps intermittently throughout the day, including FB, Instagram, Bumble, TouchDown and Feedly. Since those don't need anything special in terms of graphics, my only goal was to get more device use time than the DT. Since that wasn't happening, I've now purchased a Nexus 6p.
From reading the forums, it sounds like Google is much more responsive to issues because this phone is running stock Android. While the processor is a generation dated from the S7e, I do appreciate that Google will update much faster than Samsung, who barely acknowledged a battery issue affecting 100% of US phones. I've now installed everything on my 6p, and am in the middle of testing it for "normal use" (meaning, how I use the phone, which may or may not reflect the norm). If this phone doesn't get better battery life than the DT, then I'm going to return it, call it a day, and purchase another DT on ebay.
I'm sure for many of you screen pixels, camera and processor speed matter, but I don't watch much video, find almost all cell phone cameras provide pixelated photos, particularly in low light, and I never had any issue opening FB or emails at warp speed on my Turbo. I can't justify getting equal or less battery life for a phone that costs $500 more than the original DT.
Anyway, I'll give an update once I've had a few days with my 6p, but feel free to post your experiences if you've had any of these devices.
You should be able to get at least 6 to 8 hours SOT with the SD820 Edge, just look at this threat and try it. Despite your bad experience so far this S7 should easily obliterate your DT and 6p. It's just a shame 800 bucks doesn't work great straight out of the box like most Exynos do and how it should be. But even Exynos isn't perfect, e.g. my standby drain is slowly creeping upwards from 2% per night on the first day till 4% now, 2 weeks later. Without ever changing a setting. Not complaining though This phone has potential like no other phone in market does at this point in time.
I'd strongly doubt that any phone could average 6+ hrs of SoT unless you're on wifi and using the screen continuously. But again, everyone uses their phones differently. For me, it was the terrible Samsung support that made me throw in the towel. I agree that the phone has potential, but potential is just that. If the people responsible for updating the phone don't pay attention to their customers than the phone will never improve beyond its potential.
Carterman32 said:
If the people responsible for updating the phone don't pay attention to their customers than the phone will never improve beyond its potential.
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Touche
Hi, I'm currently in the market for a phone, and the 8 pro is one of the phones I've narrowed it down to. I've never used OnePlus phones before, but I've heard great things about their software so I've decided to see for myself.
Only issue is, there seems to be a lot of complaints about defective screens on the phones, and I just wanted to know if they're still selling defective units or if the problem is fixed and they're selling normal ones now. I live in India so if anyone could help me out on the situation here that would be great.
Also I'm doubtful about the battery life. I'm a very heavy user so I don't know if the battery can keep up with me for a whole day, as I plan to keep the phone at 120Hz QHD all the time if I do buy it.
Hardware issue that cant be fixed. It existed since OP7T but oneplus doesnt give a f**k. I dont expect them to fix even on the upcoming OP8T series. You gotta live with it.
The Green Tinge exists. Maybe OxygenOS 11 will solve it , but not keeping my hopes up. The issue isn't that widespread though. It shows when brightness is at a particular 20%-25% range and the screen is a dark-grey or similar shade and isn't visible below or above that.
Having said that, the burn-in issue and banding of the status bar area some users were seeing in early units seems to have been resolved. But all in all, it still can't hold a candle to the level of screen optimization Samsung does. My 5 year old Galaxy S6 has much better out of the box calibration and white balance than my current Op8 Pro. It's what it is.
Be careful of responses on threads like this, although I'm sympathetic to end users who've got a dodgy unit, the vast majority of people do not have this issue.
I ordered one device and i have zero issues, no screen problems at all, even before the brightness got lowered, no overheating issues, nothing.
Most people don't, but a thread like this just gives everyone with a problem a platform to voice their opinion and who will all say something negative (which you have to expect), most people who don't have this issue will be less likely to report on this thread so you will end up with an unclear and biased set of responses.
As with any phone, if you get a device and it has an issue, you have two years warranty for a reason, use it.
If you're paying cash then I'd advise to get it from Amazon, they don't argue and will simply swap out the device.
To put this all into perspective, I've had more phones than the vast majority of people who come on xda, usually 1-2 phones per year since the G1 days, I've had issues on 1 device and that was after 4 years and my daughter was using it at the time, that was the HTC hero. I haven't had screen issues since on any phone before or since.
For every person with an issue with their screen or indeed any part of any device; there is a multitude of people who do not.
As for battery life, I get 8-9 hours SOT most days and have achieved 10 hours, it's worth noting that although I keep my phone in good condition, no charging overnight, no ad supported apps or bloat, im not actively trying to achieve high SOT scores, im just using the phone.
Most recently I was testing games on most emulators throughout the day and within 11 hours of charge the screen was on for 9 hours and 9 minutes, there was 10% left, screenshots and app usage in the screen on time section in the real life review section of this forum, this was at pure stock.. 5G off (using 4G and FHD instead of QHD no difference)
I've just flashed xXx No Limits so I am expecting that number to rise.
Bottom line is to find out for yourself though, each of us have different habits and needs, but in regards to screen uniformity it's a roll of the dice, but the odds are definitely in your favour.