Database Users

Do you Think HTC will place the same Hardware root block on the DHD as they did on G2

Well, according to these very forums, the US T-mobile G2 has a hardware root block - a chip which flashes the phone back to the original ROM every time it detects a custom one
Do you think HTC will place this same hardware root block on the UK Desire Z and more importantly, our precious Desire HD? Personally, I'd like to believe that HTC did this under pressure from T-Mobile US, but I don't know...

Yes the desire HD will have the same protection as the G2. athough that sounds bad its not as bad as you would think.
1) there will be loads of devs working on the same problem (G2, DesireZ, DesireHD) so the quicker the full root will come
2) we can still "temporeraly" write to system unlike the Evo/Desire/ect. before root
Presumeing that the DesireHD is also vunrable to the rageagainstthecage exploit like the G2. Im pritty shure that it will be as G2 is and the ROM will be built at a similer time if :-D

Apache14 said:
Yes the desire HD will have the same protection as the G2. athough that sounds bad its not as bad as you would think.
1) there will be loads of devs working on the same problem (G2, DesireZ, DesireHD) so the quicker the full root will come
2) we can still "temporeraly" write to system unlike the Evo/Desire/ect. before root
Presumeing that the DesireHD is also vunrable to the rageagainstthecage exploit like the G2. Im pritty shure that it will be as G2 is and the ROM will be built at a similer time if :-D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The G2 is running Vanilla 2.2 though, so it may be somewhat different... Lets hope the Desire HD can be rooted ASAP, Im sure Paul OB has a few tricks up his sleeve He has an answer for everything you know))
JD

yeah i just read about this on Engadget. This could potentially be a major problem for us future DHD owners.

Nobody has confirmed yet that there is some sort of hardware block. To me it sounds more like a kernel customization. Anyways, give the G2 hackers a couple of days to figure it out. I wouldn't be surprised if non-US phones (where there is actually competition) will not see this crap.

Thanks for your opinions guys! I guess the key is patience, it seems successful steps have already been taking in unlocking the device. With the combined effort of all of the HTC droid hackers, it shouldn't take very long at all

If they cant disable it, maybe they can make the phone reinstall a rooted version of the stock.. They have temporary root now, hopefully they manage to locate the hidden nand.. If they managed to get write permission to the part where the stock image/rom is, hopefully they will manage to make it restore a rooted version of it. If they manage to disable it, it would be easier for us to flash using rom manager etc but if they cant, we will just have to perhaps rely on restoring method. Its like a nandroid restore mechanism.
Just wishful thinking here, i do not know what they are doing now but hopefully it will work either hard or easy. Things go hard at first and hopefully will be more fluid as time pass by. Pray.. pray.. pray.. Go modders/devs!

I can tell you all now HTC will have HW R/W protection on there probably controled by the bootloader. They did it on the Desire/Wildfire/Evo they are not going to take a step back with this phone. 99% of the stuff ppl here about the G2 protection is wrong. i.e its not a rootkit :-s what happens.
Bootloader sets eMMC to R/O --> boots os --> any changes get bufferd --> on reboot bootloader restores removing changes
Thats what happens no one realy knows how the restores happen yet.
Root will come probably for all 3 devices at once.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

Personally, I can live without custom ROM, though I would prefer to have it. I currently own a Hero with MCR5, and love it.
But what is REALLY important is root access to access Market and download the many programs I have already purchased.
Here in Denmark, we only have the locked "free apps only" market. I need my CoPilot and much other stuff!
If I have root, and can run my "root required" apps, then I am happy.

kingkeld said:
Personally, I can live without custom ROM, though I would prefer to have it. I currently own a Hero with MCR5, and love it.
But what is REALLY important is root access to access Market and download the many programs I have already purchased.
Here in Denmark, we only have the locked "free apps only" market. I need my CoPilot and much other stuff!
If I have root, and can run my "root required" apps, then I am happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you been inside a cave this last few days?!? If it's all about the market, google is going to open up to almost 30 new countries....
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/09/more-countries-more-sellers-more-buyers.html
Oh, but you tell me, that the X app or the Y app still is not going to be on my country's market...
But that's not google fault, now it up with the software devs to select what country market they want to be

onesolo said:
Have you been inside a cave this last few days?!? If it's all about the market, google is going to open up to almost 30 new countries....
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/09/more-countries-more-sellers-more-buyers.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still, not all countries are on that list (like mine for example).
So having access to paid apps is still a pretty good reason to have root.

So, i need a help from you guys with this. I never had Android and have one question.
Ok, i understood that if i want coocked ROM i need to root it, BUT if I want instal crack games and programs and all availible apps from the net, do I still need this root?
Without root i can instal only free games and buy the one with price and thats all??
Thanks

Hang on, are you asking for advice on pirating? O_O
OMG!

Smartmob said:
So, i need a help from you guys with this. I never had Android and have one question.
Ok, i understood that if i want coocked ROM i need to root it, BUT if I want instal crack games and programs and all availible apps from the net, do I still need this root?
Without root i can instal only free games and buy the one with price and thats all??
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is wrong!
wywywywy said:
Hang on, are you asking for advice on pirating? O_O
OMG!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bingo!

xD ok ok, no pirating...just the part with root

onesolo said:
Have you been inside a cave this last few days?!? If it's all about the market, google is going to open up to almost 30 new countries....
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/09/more-countries-more-sellers-more-buyers.html
Oh, but you tell me, that the X app or the Y app still is not going to be on my country's market...
But that's not google fault, now it up with the software devs to select what country market they want to be
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...And this is where MarketEnabler is great. I buy stuff from all over the place. Some I can maybe live without, but some I would hate to miss out on.
And I still need Root for Titanium Backup.

RollingStar said:
Well, according to these very forums, the US T-mobile G2 has a hardware root block - a chip which flashes the phone back to the original ROM every time it detects a custom one
Do you think HTC will place this same hardware root block on the UK Desire Z and more importantly, our precious Desire HD? Personally, I'd like to believe that HTC did this under pressure from T-Mobile US, but I don't know...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can somebody explain.. Is this feature "HW root block" will be affect every DHD or only SIM-locked (operator's) phones?
I'm using Galaxy S and it is not difficult to guess that I have pre-ordered DHD on Clove. My Galaxy's using experience tell me to be bad without having root access. So I have been a bit confused when saw this topic.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

The DHD will have the same R/W (root) protection in place as the G2 (vision). I know this as its based on the same chipset and will contain the same eMMC.
HTC always do this on every "generation" of phone i.e desire/evo/ect. Generation had the same NAND lockout as eachother.
So every single shipping DHD will have the G2 style protection
Can a mod pls close this topic its pointless and missleading
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

Apache you gave me a reason to wait details about this are 100% defined and I add..unlocked..before buying. Can't live with a locked Htc with no custom roms.
One question, can you point me where I can follow the development of this?

Apache14 said:
Can a mod pls close this topic its pointless and missleading
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How so? I'm asking a valid question, T-Mobile US may have pushed HTC into doing this, just like they did to remove Wifi tethering to the G2's supposedly 'Vanilla' version of Android... Do you work for HTC? All we can do is predict trends, nobody knows for sure if the DHD will share the US G2's exact chipset.

Need perm root to ROM?

Im not a big developer or hacker of any sort and so i just have a quick simple question. Dont get mad at me for not knowing. But do we NEED a perm root to be able to use ROMS? What happens if we use a rom without perm root? A bricked phone? Erased data? Ive always been wondering this and never came across an answer or a similar thread
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

hawaiian.monzta said:
Im not a big developer or hacker of any sort and so i just have a quick simple question. Dont get mad at me for not knowing. But do we NEED a perm root to be able to use ROMS? What happens if we use a rom without perm root? A bricked phone? Erased data? Ive always been wondering this and never came across an answer or a similar thread
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tmobile included the chip so it will revert back to stock if it is rooted, therefore eliminating the possibility of a brick. If you call cust support and tell them you are having issues because you tried to root your g2, all they have to say is "reboot your phone." I think tmo did this because of the slew of customers calling cust support when they bricked their g1/mt3gs. Therefore, it is the inexperienced user's faults that tmobile had to install the root kit. If noobs didn't brick their devices so prevalently and ask tmobile for help with their mess up, there wouldn't be a need for the chip.
Sent from my HTC Dream using XDA App

ad505 said:
Tmobile included the chip so it will revert back to stock if it is rooted, therefore eliminating the possibility of a brick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ugh. This is not only false, but has been repeatedly debunked. There is no chip, mechanism, or anything else that "reverts" the phone back to stock.
The NAND itself is set to be read-only at boot, and no one has yet succeeded in disabling this protection. When people root the G2 and make changes to the system, these changes only appear to be present because the Linux kernel is caching them. They are never written to the device, and so at next reboot (or earlier, when the caches are flushed) they disappear.

itp said:
Ugh. This is not only false, but has been repeatedly debunked. There is no chip, mechanism, or anything else that "reverts" the phone back to stock.
The NAND itself is set to be read-only at boot, and no one has yet succeeded in disabling this protection. When people root the G2 and make changes to the system, these changes only appear to be present because the Linux kernel is caching them. They are never written to the device, and so at next reboot (or earlier, when the caches are flushed) they disappear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, chip or not, the "reboot unroot" was because folks bricked their devices and asked tmobile for help, flooding their customer support and overwhelming their resources. It makes perfect sense to me why this was included in a flagship device like the g1's successor.
Sent from my HTC Dream using XDA App

Its a bug. Don't give tmobile too much credit.
Sent from my HTC Vision G2

luis86dr said:
Its a bug. Don't give tmobile too much credit.
Sent from my HTC Vision G2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More like "Unfortunate side-effect of being read-only but appearing as read/write to the OS."
In normal circumstances, it's not an issue (being that nothing needs /system to be r/w for normal operation.) Technically you are operating it out of spec, since you re-mounted /system as r/w.
Not that I agree with it, it's ****ty (and the main reason I returned my G2.)
To answer the OP, yes - two things need to happen before ROMs can be released:
1) Permanent NAND unlock
2) Recovery (Clockwork Mod or similar) to write the ROM to un-locked storage.
Until both of these happen, ROM development is at a standstill.

luis86dr said:
Its a bug. Don't give tmobile too much credit.
Sent from my HTC Vision G2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What on earth makes you think it's a bug rather than a deliberate HTC feature?

keenerb said:
What on earth makes you think it's a bug rather than a deliberate HTC feature?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One could argue that the controller lying about syncs to "disk" is buggy behavior. But it's clear that it's very much deliberate.

How is it clear that it's deliberate? It only serves to let us mess around with our phones through a temporary root. It doesn't add to the underlying cause that we haven't rooted the phone.
At least, thats what I gathered from the wiki.

Uhhhh....sooooo.....what's the need for a perm root to use a rom again? Either no one answered or I completely missed it and I don't think I missed it haha
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

You're only making changes to the cache, so after using the phone for awhile, parts of the cache get emptied out, and they just go away. This is why when you have temp root, after enough time, your phone will just restart.
I've seen that theres work to get ROMs loading from SD cards, I haven't checked into this myself, so it might just be a pipe dream, but still, do you really want to run everything from your SD card?
At this point, it works better (and longer) to have temp root, and make small changes here and there.
And please someone correct me if I'm wrong on any point.

hawaiian.monzta said:
Uhhhh....sooooo.....what's the need for a perm root to use a rom again? Either no one answered or I completely missed it and I don't think I missed it haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In fact, there is no such thing as permanent root. There is only root, the problem is that anything you do while being rooted is not preserved, as the memory card where the system is is write-protected. So you can't modify the system and make the root available permanently.
And to your question - no, you don't need permanent root to use ROMs. But permanent root needs write access to system and custom ROMs also need write access to the system. So they don't depend on each other, but both depend on another feature - the write access to the system (the integrated memory card, eMMC). Once you get write access, both problems ("permanent root" and custom ROMs) will be solved.

faugusztin said:
And to your question - no, you don't need permanent root to use ROMs. But permanent root needs write access to system and custom ROMs also need write access to the system. So they don't depend on each other, but both depend on another feature - the write access to the system (the integrated memory card, eMMC). Once you get write access, both problems ("permanent root" and custom ROMs) will be solved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically, you only need recovery. But the fact of the matter is, they go hand-in-hand. Once one is compromised, the other is as well. This has been the pattern with HTC thus far anyway...

hawaiian.monzta said:
Uhhhh....sooooo.....what's the need for a perm root to use a rom again? Either no one answered or I completely missed it and I don't think I missed it haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I answered here
No roms until those two things happen.

ad505 said:
Ok, chip or not, the "reboot unroot" was because folks bricked their devices and asked tmobile for help, flooding their customer support and overwhelming their resources. It makes perfect sense to me why this was included in a flagship device like the g1's successor.
Sent from my HTC Dream using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you think this is about anything but control, you're sorely mistaken. They do this because they can, and because they have commitments to Amazon, Photobucket, and every other pre-installed crapware provider they have a contract with to guarantee the user cannot remove their app.
If it's about bricked handsets, why not take the Nexus One approach: Make rooting trivially easy to do - anyone wishing to do so will likely take the path of least resistance. Once rooted, HTC/T-Mo can visually identify a rooted handset and decline warranty service. Problem solved.
franky1029 said:
How is it clear that it's deliberate? It only serves to let us mess around with our phones through a temporary root. It doesn't add to the underlying cause that we haven't rooted the phone.
At least, thats what I gathered from the wiki.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's deliberate because of the whole history behind it. S-ON, write protection, read-only partitions, gold cards, subsidy unlocking, etc. This arms race has gone on for years. All of this is done deliberately.
T-Mobile has an interest in making it as difficult as possible to use the handset on a different network, or use apps they don't like (which, btw, they have not started revoking yet, just wait, it's a matter of time...) Likewise, HTC has an interest in making their customer (T-Mobile) happy.
HTC doesn't give a **** that you, the end user, are unhappy. Their client is T-Mobile.
None of this will change until we (as customers) stop putting up with it, stop buying subsidized handsets from the Provider channel, and start buying un-subsidized handsets straight from the manufacturer. Unfortunately, this isn't going to happen in the U.S. for quite a while - people are too dumb to know what they are doing...
It was no accident that the device is designed to make writing to /system difficult. It was no accident on any other HTC handset either.
Why would you want temporary root over persistent root? It doesn't serve us at all - it only makes it harder on them (HTC - in the long run) once someone like Unrevoked roots it forever.

Let me know when you get your Atrix!

Hey guys, shout out and let me know if you get your Atrix today and if you are rooting!
Curios to see how big the community is

designgears said:
Hey guys, shout out and let me know if you get your Atrix today and if you are rooting!
Curios to see how big the community is
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On the truck for delivery right now. I'll be rooting as soon as I get home to grab it, then running a restore of my apps through TiBu.

I want to, but this is my first Android phone and I'm new to all this. The tutorial doesn't back up before the whole process, so I'm wary.
How do I run a backup before proceeding with the breifmobile tutorial?

hopefully my store receives it in its shipment today

FNugget said:
I want to, but this is my first Android phone and I'm new to all this. The tutorial doesn't back up before the whole process, so I'm wary.
How do I run a backup before proceeding with the breifmobile tutorial?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't, because you need root to backup.
But seriously, rooting is not dangerous at all. All it does is pushes a root exploit to your phone, runs it, then once it has temp root, it pushes su and installs superuser.
Sent from my Captivate using XDA App

Mine should get here within the next couple of hours. (not really mine, its for my GF, to replace her N1)
I'll be rooting and installing ADW after its charged.

Mines on the truck out for delivery as well.
I'm sure I will root after some more reading. This is my first android and I look forward to tweaking it to the max as I have done with my winmo devices in the past. Root access seems to be right up my alley but I'm always kind timid when it comes to possibly voiding the waranty on my shiny new gadget.
Thanks designgears for your part in rooting this device. I'm very happy to see this information already available for when I am ready to take that step.

Well, as i live in the UK, i won't be able to report anything soon. Might consider getting it from America and hoping to God someone finds a way to unlock it. Expensive but might be worth it. I want one. Sucks

On the truck for delivery. I'll root tonight and commence playing.

TheEscapist said:
But seriously, rooting is not dangerous at all. All it does is pushes a root exploit to your phone, runs it, then once it has temp root, it pushes su and installs superuser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for this simplified explanation. Makes me think more and more that I will be rooting sooner rather than later.
I hear that it is easy to unroot for warranty purposes. Is that true?

Mine should be here soon! I am so excited. can wait to root it, first thing! then maybe I will you know, in stall my SIM and maybe use it as a phone, but hacking comes first. Glad to have DG here and in support of this phone, makes me a little happier with it.

Mine is on truck for delivery to my local store. Will post here once I get it. Been Loyal Windows mobile user for 4 years and tried may cooked up ROMs.

Should be here today too!! Ill be rooting right when I get home too so I can restore my apps too!
Droid Incredible Rooted!

killerb7854 said:
Thanks for this simplified explanation. Makes me think more and more that I will be rooting sooner rather than later.
I hear that it is easy to unroot for warranty purposes. Is that true?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, just remove superuser and /system/xbin/su. Its a simple as starting up an adb shell, and deleting those two.
Sent from my Captivate using XDA App

TheEscapist said:
Yep, just remove superuser and /system/xbin/su. Its a simple as starting up an adb shell, and deleting those two.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks again. Looks like I'll be rooting immediately after I get done playing with and familiarizing myself with the new device and OS.
Where is that Fedex guy!

Mine is on the truck for delivery and will be rooting tonight as soon as I get home

It's here!!!! Will be rooting asap

I HAD TO GO TO WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kids/Wife are home so hopefully it shows up... there's a snow storm though and the delivery guys are notorious for just not delivering in the snow... they drive by the houses they're supposed to and if they're not shoveled and salted they don't even get out of the truck... just drive on by.
I shoveled the entire route to my house from the road... lol.. it's not short.

jiggytom said:
It's here!!!! Will be rooting asap
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn you beat me to it, I'm still waiting on FedEx...

jiggytom said:
It's here!!!! Will be rooting asap
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GAAAAHHHHHH!!!! lol

FULLHDMI for the nonrooted

This is good find by smilyjay from android central, download z4root and busybox, all i no is without busybox installed you cant stop service

I'm confused

Que? lol ¿qué estás hablando?

heathmcabee said:
I'm confused
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for someone who dont want to root there phone use z4root to do a temp root and fullhdmi will then work, but when he tried to stop service it wouldnt so orrebmas told him to download busybox then he was able to stop the hdmi service

ok...lol
swyped from my cyanogenized and gingerbreaded EVO

josh030181 said:
...dont want to root...z4root to do a temp root...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oxymoronic statement is redundant?
Como?

I don't get what's the point of temp-root?
That's like getting a temp-raise from your job.

phatmanxxl said:
I don't get what's the point of temp-root?
That's like getting a temp-raise from your job.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's so you can experience the thrill of rooting.
Every. Single. Time. You boot.

You gotta start somewhere, when I first started with the evo, I knew nothing of android, and the only rom i flashed was on my razr, I used a temp root method, for a couple weeks before I finally upgraded to full soff root, mainly I got tired of re rooting to use my features,
I have recommend zroot for a temp root to most people since I haven't heard of it brickong phones, and they just want tether, I hope they come back and ask about better methods down the line. Just gotta get them hooked, like a drug dealer
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Root on 3d maybe Shift too?

Just throwin out there. Andbody think our devs maybe able to use the same exploit? Or similar exploit? I mean maybe our devs can go back and find a similar hole in our kernel?
" Nfinite and Beyond! "

Well just tried the Evo3D temp root on the wifey's Shift and got all the way to the exploit+FAIL "exploit will not work on this device". Dam! But the Dev said on Twitter that it might work on other devices with a few tweaks.
https://twitter.com/#!/agrabren
Just thought I'd post to try to add some help to those of you who ran the OTA and lost root. Thought if it worked it would give one of our Dev's here a hole to get root back on the ole Shifty!

I tried the same exploit and just received an error that this device isn't supported. Here is the thread. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1149998 I am not sure how it does it.. but maybe it could help?

Bummer...I was hoping it might work.

stormchaser404 said:
Bummer...I was hoping it might work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too but I am sure it does a device check first. There may be a way but I just don't know how I really hope there is a root discovered soon..

Lol yall are playing with fire! Just wait till the devs get a exploit cus u cant unbrick your phone if u mess up the bootloader and ruu
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App

Agreed...I'm waiting patiently. If there's no root in another week or so, I'll just reactivate my old Pre and wait it out, then switch back.

That we are , but with risk comes reward. What if it would've given us temp root? Maybe put us in the same boat as the 3d as far as it would put shift devs that much closer to a perm root method for those that took the OTA update.
Just my opinion but i see your point .
Sent from my PG06100

stormchaser404 said:
Agreed...I'm waiting patiently. If there's no root in another week or so, I'll just reactivate my old Pre and wait it out, then switch back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is the old pre better than an unrooted shift or something?

Nope! Lol
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App

Stuke00 said:
Is the old pre better than an unrooted shift or something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, for me, yes it is. The big thing for me is wifi hotspot, which you can't do on an un-rooted Shift. And honestly, I like the HP WebOS better than Android, but the lack of new apps and several other short comings pushed me over. Overall, I really like my Shift, but I need to get it rooted sooner than later or will need to go back to my Pre for a while.