Im not a big developer or hacker of any sort and so i just have a quick simple question. Dont get mad at me for not knowing. But do we NEED a perm root to be able to use ROMS? What happens if we use a rom without perm root? A bricked phone? Erased data? Ive always been wondering this and never came across an answer or a similar thread
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
hawaiian.monzta said:
Im not a big developer or hacker of any sort and so i just have a quick simple question. Dont get mad at me for not knowing. But do we NEED a perm root to be able to use ROMS? What happens if we use a rom without perm root? A bricked phone? Erased data? Ive always been wondering this and never came across an answer or a similar thread
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tmobile included the chip so it will revert back to stock if it is rooted, therefore eliminating the possibility of a brick. If you call cust support and tell them you are having issues because you tried to root your g2, all they have to say is "reboot your phone." I think tmo did this because of the slew of customers calling cust support when they bricked their g1/mt3gs. Therefore, it is the inexperienced user's faults that tmobile had to install the root kit. If noobs didn't brick their devices so prevalently and ask tmobile for help with their mess up, there wouldn't be a need for the chip.
Sent from my HTC Dream using XDA App
ad505 said:
Tmobile included the chip so it will revert back to stock if it is rooted, therefore eliminating the possibility of a brick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ugh. This is not only false, but has been repeatedly debunked. There is no chip, mechanism, or anything else that "reverts" the phone back to stock.
The NAND itself is set to be read-only at boot, and no one has yet succeeded in disabling this protection. When people root the G2 and make changes to the system, these changes only appear to be present because the Linux kernel is caching them. They are never written to the device, and so at next reboot (or earlier, when the caches are flushed) they disappear.
itp said:
Ugh. This is not only false, but has been repeatedly debunked. There is no chip, mechanism, or anything else that "reverts" the phone back to stock.
The NAND itself is set to be read-only at boot, and no one has yet succeeded in disabling this protection. When people root the G2 and make changes to the system, these changes only appear to be present because the Linux kernel is caching them. They are never written to the device, and so at next reboot (or earlier, when the caches are flushed) they disappear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, chip or not, the "reboot unroot" was because folks bricked their devices and asked tmobile for help, flooding their customer support and overwhelming their resources. It makes perfect sense to me why this was included in a flagship device like the g1's successor.
Sent from my HTC Dream using XDA App
Its a bug. Don't give tmobile too much credit.
Sent from my HTC Vision G2
luis86dr said:
Its a bug. Don't give tmobile too much credit.
Sent from my HTC Vision G2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More like "Unfortunate side-effect of being read-only but appearing as read/write to the OS."
In normal circumstances, it's not an issue (being that nothing needs /system to be r/w for normal operation.) Technically you are operating it out of spec, since you re-mounted /system as r/w.
Not that I agree with it, it's ****ty (and the main reason I returned my G2.)
To answer the OP, yes - two things need to happen before ROMs can be released:
1) Permanent NAND unlock
2) Recovery (Clockwork Mod or similar) to write the ROM to un-locked storage.
Until both of these happen, ROM development is at a standstill.
luis86dr said:
Its a bug. Don't give tmobile too much credit.
Sent from my HTC Vision G2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What on earth makes you think it's a bug rather than a deliberate HTC feature?
keenerb said:
What on earth makes you think it's a bug rather than a deliberate HTC feature?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One could argue that the controller lying about syncs to "disk" is buggy behavior. But it's clear that it's very much deliberate.
How is it clear that it's deliberate? It only serves to let us mess around with our phones through a temporary root. It doesn't add to the underlying cause that we haven't rooted the phone.
At least, thats what I gathered from the wiki.
Uhhhh....sooooo.....what's the need for a perm root to use a rom again? Either no one answered or I completely missed it and I don't think I missed it haha
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
You're only making changes to the cache, so after using the phone for awhile, parts of the cache get emptied out, and they just go away. This is why when you have temp root, after enough time, your phone will just restart.
I've seen that theres work to get ROMs loading from SD cards, I haven't checked into this myself, so it might just be a pipe dream, but still, do you really want to run everything from your SD card?
At this point, it works better (and longer) to have temp root, and make small changes here and there.
And please someone correct me if I'm wrong on any point.
hawaiian.monzta said:
Uhhhh....sooooo.....what's the need for a perm root to use a rom again? Either no one answered or I completely missed it and I don't think I missed it haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In fact, there is no such thing as permanent root. There is only root, the problem is that anything you do while being rooted is not preserved, as the memory card where the system is is write-protected. So you can't modify the system and make the root available permanently.
And to your question - no, you don't need permanent root to use ROMs. But permanent root needs write access to system and custom ROMs also need write access to the system. So they don't depend on each other, but both depend on another feature - the write access to the system (the integrated memory card, eMMC). Once you get write access, both problems ("permanent root" and custom ROMs) will be solved.
faugusztin said:
And to your question - no, you don't need permanent root to use ROMs. But permanent root needs write access to system and custom ROMs also need write access to the system. So they don't depend on each other, but both depend on another feature - the write access to the system (the integrated memory card, eMMC). Once you get write access, both problems ("permanent root" and custom ROMs) will be solved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically, you only need recovery. But the fact of the matter is, they go hand-in-hand. Once one is compromised, the other is as well. This has been the pattern with HTC thus far anyway...
hawaiian.monzta said:
Uhhhh....sooooo.....what's the need for a perm root to use a rom again? Either no one answered or I completely missed it and I don't think I missed it haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I answered here
No roms until those two things happen.
ad505 said:
Ok, chip or not, the "reboot unroot" was because folks bricked their devices and asked tmobile for help, flooding their customer support and overwhelming their resources. It makes perfect sense to me why this was included in a flagship device like the g1's successor.
Sent from my HTC Dream using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you think this is about anything but control, you're sorely mistaken. They do this because they can, and because they have commitments to Amazon, Photobucket, and every other pre-installed crapware provider they have a contract with to guarantee the user cannot remove their app.
If it's about bricked handsets, why not take the Nexus One approach: Make rooting trivially easy to do - anyone wishing to do so will likely take the path of least resistance. Once rooted, HTC/T-Mo can visually identify a rooted handset and decline warranty service. Problem solved.
franky1029 said:
How is it clear that it's deliberate? It only serves to let us mess around with our phones through a temporary root. It doesn't add to the underlying cause that we haven't rooted the phone.
At least, thats what I gathered from the wiki.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's deliberate because of the whole history behind it. S-ON, write protection, read-only partitions, gold cards, subsidy unlocking, etc. This arms race has gone on for years. All of this is done deliberately.
T-Mobile has an interest in making it as difficult as possible to use the handset on a different network, or use apps they don't like (which, btw, they have not started revoking yet, just wait, it's a matter of time...) Likewise, HTC has an interest in making their customer (T-Mobile) happy.
HTC doesn't give a **** that you, the end user, are unhappy. Their client is T-Mobile.
None of this will change until we (as customers) stop putting up with it, stop buying subsidized handsets from the Provider channel, and start buying un-subsidized handsets straight from the manufacturer. Unfortunately, this isn't going to happen in the U.S. for quite a while - people are too dumb to know what they are doing...
It was no accident that the device is designed to make writing to /system difficult. It was no accident on any other HTC handset either.
Why would you want temporary root over persistent root? It doesn't serve us at all - it only makes it harder on them (HTC - in the long run) once someone like Unrevoked roots it forever.
Related
I was thinking if anyone knew about htcs and t-mobiles view on rooting
Well, if they wanted you to do it, than they wouldn't be patching off the root access or the app. So I would reasonible believe they don't want you to. Another thing is they do not warranty work on rooted devices
What do you mean they do not warranty work on rooted devices
Meaning a rooted device loses its warranty if its sent in rooted, if its been flashed back then it still has its warranty...
I doubt Google and HTC care if we root our devices, they don't loose out, and they sell rooted phones any way (ADP1 and I think the ION is rooted too). I guess the only reason google would care is app piracy...
M..N said:
What do you mean they do not warranty work on rooted devices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you root your phone, kiss good bye to your warranty. It really doesn't matter though, if it's a hardware issue you can unroot and they'll never know, and if it's bricked you can say it was update that bricked it.
Has anyone in the uk replace their phone successfully
M..N said:
Has anyone in the uk replace their phone successfully
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean?
I mean has anyone in the uk replaced a bricked phone caused by the new spl without any problems
HTC aren't going to bothered with what people do, neither are Google really. It's the network operators which want to tie people to their crap and have you pay for it.
The issue is with the warranty and if you broke it, Asus, for example, aren't bothered what OS you run on their hardware, but if you flash a bad BIOS then it's your fault. ATI, nVidia, Gigabyte etc encourage overclocking but won't honour warranty if it causes damage.
Google are likely to secretly want rooted phones as more network operators mangle the OS to suit themselves in the future and push their own services over Googles.
M..N said:
I was thinking if anyone knew about htcs and t-mobiles view on rooting
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My guess is that T-Mobile doesn't want rooting because it allows tethering.
Tethering generally causes an increase in data usage, and an increase in bandwidth use by the phone. This can impact T-Mobile cell towers and other T-Mobile customers if too many tethered phones are sucking up bandwidth on a particular tower.
gridlock32404 said:
Well, if they wanted you to do it, than they wouldn't be patching off the root access or the app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My recollection is that that bug was patched because it allowed any app to gain root access for itself, not just the end user. Hopefully I don't need to explain why that's a bad thing. The patch didn't specifically patch out root access for the user because root access for the user was never a design feature to begin with.
M..N said:
I was thinking if anyone knew about htcs and t-mobiles view on rooting
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you really want to know the official views of these companies, email or call them. Most of the members of xda-dev are not employed by/affiliated with either company, and as such it is impossible to tell if they're telling truth, passing along unverified rumor/hearsay, or just making bs up.
gridlock32404 said:
Well, if they wanted you to do it, than they wouldn't be patching off the root access or the app. So I would reasonible believe they don't want you to. Another thing is they do not warranty work on rooted devices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can also look at it like they don't care if you do it but they don't want a one click solution that will allow every freakin retard out there to do it. Think about it how many stupid questions do we get from people who used the one click vs ones who did it manually.
Also having an app with that kind of access to the phone means ANY app can have that kind of access to your phone including the bad evil kind you dream of making gridlock.
The problem with rooting is this;
Some very small number of people understand the system and can be fully self-sufficient with full root access.
And then you have the others, who want root for whatever features come with it... and some of them start messing with things they don't understand and end up in a huge mess... and then send it back for warranty work because their device doesn't work right any more. This means MUCH more support from the retailer/manufacturer. The other side of this is that if you have a whole lot of people trying things like cyanogen's latest unstable mod and show it off to a whole lot of people, and it crashed like nuts, then the people who see it don't necessarily understand that it is due to running crazy experimental stuff and instead think that 'droid itself is junk.... which is incorrect.
So preventing root access means that you have a simpler, more consistent, and more reliable environment, which means a better platform reputation and lower overall support costs.
lbcoder said:
The problem with rooting is this;
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's another point of consideration. While I know I just wrote about the unverifiability of some posts on xda, i'm going to have to do a complete 180 and do just that. I can't confirm since I'm not a handset maker (nor do I work for one), but i'm quite confident in believing that in order to acquire Google's consent and software support to create a Google Experience phone, root access has to be restricted from the end user. Again that's all speculation.
lbcoder said:
The problem with rooting is this;
Some very small number of people understand the system and can be fully self-sufficient with full root access.
And then you have the others, who want root for whatever features come with it... and some of them start messing with things they don't understand and end up in a huge mess... and then send it back for warranty work because their device doesn't work right any more. This means MUCH more support from the retailer/manufacturer. The other side of this is that if you have a whole lot of people trying things like cyanogen's latest unstable mod and show it off to a whole lot of people, and it crashed like nuts, then the people who see it don't necessarily understand that it is due to running crazy experimental stuff and instead think that 'droid itself is junk.... which is incorrect.
So preventing root access means that you have a simpler, more consistent, and more reliable environment, which means a better platform reputation and lower overall support costs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good breakdown.
StanSimmons said:
My guess is that T-Mobile doesn't want rooting because it allows tethering.
Tethering generally causes an increase in data usage, and an increase in bandwidth use by the phone. This can impact T-Mobile cell towers and other T-Mobile customers if too many tethered phones are sucking up bandwidth on a particular tower.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dunno about in the US, but this would most likely be T-Mobile UK's problem.
The terms of the contracts say that you can't tether with the standard net package, you need to upgrade to the next one (extra £10 instead of £5) to be able to use your 3G/HSDPA connection on the PC.
Problem is, with phones like the G1 how would they know? If it was something like an old Sony Ericsson W810 they would know straight away due to the amount you were downloading but on a G1 you can view full webpages anyway, download images etc and programs via the market. So really they have no way of knowing if you're tethering of not. Hence they want to try and stop tethering from being an option.
Fingerlicken, why would I Target a system I use, if I let out any kind of evil it would be against an Iphone.
Why does Linux have so little viruses, cause most of the hackers use linux
gridlock32404 said:
Why does Linux have so little viruses, cause most of the hackers use linux
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wha? I think you have your cause and effect mixed up. Also, this thread is getting off topic.
Well, according to these very forums, the US T-mobile G2 has a hardware root block - a chip which flashes the phone back to the original ROM every time it detects a custom one
Do you think HTC will place this same hardware root block on the UK Desire Z and more importantly, our precious Desire HD? Personally, I'd like to believe that HTC did this under pressure from T-Mobile US, but I don't know...
Yes the desire HD will have the same protection as the G2. athough that sounds bad its not as bad as you would think.
1) there will be loads of devs working on the same problem (G2, DesireZ, DesireHD) so the quicker the full root will come
2) we can still "temporeraly" write to system unlike the Evo/Desire/ect. before root
Presumeing that the DesireHD is also vunrable to the rageagainstthecage exploit like the G2. Im pritty shure that it will be as G2 is and the ROM will be built at a similer time if :-D
Apache14 said:
Yes the desire HD will have the same protection as the G2. athough that sounds bad its not as bad as you would think.
1) there will be loads of devs working on the same problem (G2, DesireZ, DesireHD) so the quicker the full root will come
2) we can still "temporeraly" write to system unlike the Evo/Desire/ect. before root
Presumeing that the DesireHD is also vunrable to the rageagainstthecage exploit like the G2. Im pritty shure that it will be as G2 is and the ROM will be built at a similer time if :-D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The G2 is running Vanilla 2.2 though, so it may be somewhat different... Lets hope the Desire HD can be rooted ASAP, Im sure Paul OB has a few tricks up his sleeve He has an answer for everything you know))
JD
yeah i just read about this on Engadget. This could potentially be a major problem for us future DHD owners.
Nobody has confirmed yet that there is some sort of hardware block. To me it sounds more like a kernel customization. Anyways, give the G2 hackers a couple of days to figure it out. I wouldn't be surprised if non-US phones (where there is actually competition) will not see this crap.
Thanks for your opinions guys! I guess the key is patience, it seems successful steps have already been taking in unlocking the device. With the combined effort of all of the HTC droid hackers, it shouldn't take very long at all
If they cant disable it, maybe they can make the phone reinstall a rooted version of the stock.. They have temporary root now, hopefully they manage to locate the hidden nand.. If they managed to get write permission to the part where the stock image/rom is, hopefully they will manage to make it restore a rooted version of it. If they manage to disable it, it would be easier for us to flash using rom manager etc but if they cant, we will just have to perhaps rely on restoring method. Its like a nandroid restore mechanism.
Just wishful thinking here, i do not know what they are doing now but hopefully it will work either hard or easy. Things go hard at first and hopefully will be more fluid as time pass by. Pray.. pray.. pray.. Go modders/devs!
I can tell you all now HTC will have HW R/W protection on there probably controled by the bootloader. They did it on the Desire/Wildfire/Evo they are not going to take a step back with this phone. 99% of the stuff ppl here about the G2 protection is wrong. i.e its not a rootkit :-s what happens.
Bootloader sets eMMC to R/O --> boots os --> any changes get bufferd --> on reboot bootloader restores removing changes
Thats what happens no one realy knows how the restores happen yet.
Root will come probably for all 3 devices at once.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Personally, I can live without custom ROM, though I would prefer to have it. I currently own a Hero with MCR5, and love it.
But what is REALLY important is root access to access Market and download the many programs I have already purchased.
Here in Denmark, we only have the locked "free apps only" market. I need my CoPilot and much other stuff!
If I have root, and can run my "root required" apps, then I am happy.
kingkeld said:
Personally, I can live without custom ROM, though I would prefer to have it. I currently own a Hero with MCR5, and love it.
But what is REALLY important is root access to access Market and download the many programs I have already purchased.
Here in Denmark, we only have the locked "free apps only" market. I need my CoPilot and much other stuff!
If I have root, and can run my "root required" apps, then I am happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you been inside a cave this last few days?!? If it's all about the market, google is going to open up to almost 30 new countries....
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/09/more-countries-more-sellers-more-buyers.html
Oh, but you tell me, that the X app or the Y app still is not going to be on my country's market...
But that's not google fault, now it up with the software devs to select what country market they want to be
onesolo said:
Have you been inside a cave this last few days?!? If it's all about the market, google is going to open up to almost 30 new countries....
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/09/more-countries-more-sellers-more-buyers.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still, not all countries are on that list (like mine for example).
So having access to paid apps is still a pretty good reason to have root.
So, i need a help from you guys with this. I never had Android and have one question.
Ok, i understood that if i want coocked ROM i need to root it, BUT if I want instal crack games and programs and all availible apps from the net, do I still need this root?
Without root i can instal only free games and buy the one with price and thats all??
Thanks
Hang on, are you asking for advice on pirating? O_O
OMG!
Smartmob said:
So, i need a help from you guys with this. I never had Android and have one question.
Ok, i understood that if i want coocked ROM i need to root it, BUT if I want instal crack games and programs and all availible apps from the net, do I still need this root?
Without root i can instal only free games and buy the one with price and thats all??
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is wrong!
wywywywy said:
Hang on, are you asking for advice on pirating? O_O
OMG!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bingo!
xD ok ok, no pirating...just the part with root
onesolo said:
Have you been inside a cave this last few days?!? If it's all about the market, google is going to open up to almost 30 new countries....
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/09/more-countries-more-sellers-more-buyers.html
Oh, but you tell me, that the X app or the Y app still is not going to be on my country's market...
But that's not google fault, now it up with the software devs to select what country market they want to be
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...And this is where MarketEnabler is great. I buy stuff from all over the place. Some I can maybe live without, but some I would hate to miss out on.
And I still need Root for Titanium Backup.
RollingStar said:
Well, according to these very forums, the US T-mobile G2 has a hardware root block - a chip which flashes the phone back to the original ROM every time it detects a custom one
Do you think HTC will place this same hardware root block on the UK Desire Z and more importantly, our precious Desire HD? Personally, I'd like to believe that HTC did this under pressure from T-Mobile US, but I don't know...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can somebody explain.. Is this feature "HW root block" will be affect every DHD or only SIM-locked (operator's) phones?
I'm using Galaxy S and it is not difficult to guess that I have pre-ordered DHD on Clove. My Galaxy's using experience tell me to be bad without having root access. So I have been a bit confused when saw this topic.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
The DHD will have the same R/W (root) protection in place as the G2 (vision). I know this as its based on the same chipset and will contain the same eMMC.
HTC always do this on every "generation" of phone i.e desire/evo/ect. Generation had the same NAND lockout as eachother.
So every single shipping DHD will have the G2 style protection
Can a mod pls close this topic its pointless and missleading
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Apache you gave me a reason to wait details about this are 100% defined and I add..unlocked..before buying. Can't live with a locked Htc with no custom roms.
One question, can you point me where I can follow the development of this?
Apache14 said:
Can a mod pls close this topic its pointless and missleading
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How so? I'm asking a valid question, T-Mobile US may have pushed HTC into doing this, just like they did to remove Wifi tethering to the G2's supposedly 'Vanilla' version of Android... Do you work for HTC? All we can do is predict trends, nobody knows for sure if the DHD will share the US G2's exact chipset.
Iv been a nokia user all my life, love trying new things with my device.
Now finally Iv decided to shift, I am getting a HTC Desire Z this week for approx $500.
Is it worth that much?
If i do need a qwerty keypad, is there any other phone better than this one in the market?
Also im totally new to rooting and roms stuff,
How much of a difference is it to root the device?(the HTC sense UI is already pretty awesome and customizable from the reviews iv seen)
Is it worth the risk?
idk if they have craigslist wherever you're from, but i can find one right now for around $250
The device is not on craiglist here, 500$ is cheap i guess(its unlocked to any carrier here),
Another small doubt, can anyone share a link on how to root the desire z, all i can find is for g2(i read somewhere its not the same)
navkaranchadha said:
The device is not on craiglist here, 500$ is cheap i guess(its unlocked to any carrier here),
Another small doubt, can anyone share a link on how to root the desire z, all i can find is for g2(i read somewhere its not the same)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The best guide for both is the Gfree root, s-off and super CID thread in the development forum.
The most up-to-date guide for rooting, which covers all Vision phones (both G2 and Desire Z) is in the Wiki - http://forum.xda-developers.com/wik...sion#Rooting_the_Vision_.28G2.2FDZ.29_and_DHD
Whether to root or not is a very personal choice. But even if you don't want to load custom ROMs, there are still some things that can only be done on rooted phones. Some software, like ShootMe and Titanium Backup only work on rooted phones. Also, if your version of the Desire Z has any bloatware, it needs to be rooted to remove it.
redpoint73 said:
Whether to root or not is a very personal choice. But even if you don't want to load custom ROMs, there are still some things that can only be done on rooted phones. Some software, like ShootMe and Titanium Backup only work on rooted phones. Also, if your version of the Desire Z has any bloatware, it needs to be rooted to remove it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But what all do i lose on the desire z on rooting it.?
Does the sense UI remain the exactly same?
Also is it possible to kind of unroot it later on for warranty issues n stuff?
navkaranchadha said:
But what all do i lose on the desire z on rooting it.?
Does the sense UI remain the exactly same?
Also is it possible to kind of unroot it later on for warranty issues n stuff?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can possibly lose warranty,.... only if something goes horribly wrong and you cant unroot again, but in usual cases, yes you can unroot for warranty purposes.
You can still use full SenseUI,... But you dont have to if you dont want,... thats the beauty.
navkaranchadha said:
But what all do i lose on the desire z on rooting it.?
Does the sense UI remain the exactly same?
Also is it possible to kind of unroot it later on for warranty issues n stuff?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Typically, if it is so buggered that you can't "unroot" it, then they won't be able to tell that you did anything to it to begin with.
Root does NOT take anything away... what root is, is simply GODLIKE POWER. Being GOD doesn't limit your freedom, it ENHANCES it.
dhkr123 said:
Typically, if it is so buggered that you can't "unroot" it, then they won't be able to tell that you did anything to it to begin with.
Root does NOT take anything away... what root is, is simply GODLIKE POWER. Being GOD doesn't limit your freedom, it ENHANCES it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I don't know about "godlike", but it is fun to have "superuser" privilege
All rooting does, is give you privilege/permission to access the operating system files. It does not actually change any files or take away anything. Its very unlikely to mess up your phone rooting as long as you follow the instruction carefully. And to me, the benefits are well worth the risk.
One more benefit I forgot to mention before, is that overclocking the CPU is only possible on a rooted phone.
redpoint73 said:
Well, I don't know about "godlike", but it is fun to have "superuser" privilege
All rooting does, is give you privilege/permission to access the operating system files. It does not actually change any files or take away anything. Its very unlikely to mess up your phone rooting as long as you follow the instruction carefully. And to me, the benefits are well worth the risk.
One more benefit I forgot to mention before, is that overclocking the CPU is only possible on a rooted phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read somewhere in xda, that the phone loses htcsense.com feature, htc locations and some other sense specific feature. Is it so? Iv had my nokia rooted, i know what it feels like, but these few htc features are the ones that sold me on it. Dont want them to go.
Also the phone data, do i lose it on rooting?
and whats the diff between gfree and hboot?
Sorry im new at all this, still researchin on the xda forums.
navkaranchadha said:
I read somewhere in xda, that the phone loses htcsense.com feature, htc locations and some other sense specific feature. Is it so? Iv had my nokia rooted, i know what it feels like, but these few htc features are the ones that sold me on it. Dont want them to go.
Also the phone data, do i lose it on rooting?
and whats the diff between gfree and hboot?
Sorry im new at all this, still researchin on the xda forums.
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I dont have a desire z, so I cant answer with 100% certainty. But I have a rooted G2 with a Desire Z Sense rom on it and htcsense.com seemed to work, but I turned it off as I hated it.
navkaranchadha said:
I read somewhere in xda, that the phone loses htcsense.com feature, htc locations and some other sense specific feature. Is it so? Iv had my nokia rooted, i know what it feels like, but these few htc features are the ones that sold me on it. Dont want them to go.
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I highly doubt that htcsense.com can tell if you are rooted or not. You certainly don't lose HTC Locations or any of the other stuff, it all works fine still. Don't worry.
htcsense.com is actually very flaky at the moment, and HTC admit they are still working on it. So it doesn't work very well anyway for a lot of people, rooted or not.
Also the phone data, do i lose it on rooting?
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No, you don't lose any data on rooting. Unless the rooting goes so badly wrong (extremely unlikely if you use the method in the Wiki) and have to flash a ROM again to recover.
and whats the diff between gfree and hboot?
Sorry im new at all this, still researchin on the xda forums.
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Click to collapse
hboot is the bootloader on your phone. You can "see" it if you have the phone powered off (not just asleep, you need to turn off the "fast boot" feature in Menu->Settings->Applications or pull the battery), then hold Volume Down then press Power till it turns on. There is an "eng" (engineering) version of hboot that gives you a few more flashing/recovery functions, but that's not essential to start with, ignore that for now.
gfree is a utility that can be used in rooting and primarily for achieving a full S-OFF on your phone, plus SIM unlock and "superCID" - see more details at http://forum.xda-developers.com/wik...Subsidy_Unlock.2C_SuperCID.2C_and_Radio_S-OFF
Hey all, I was thinking of getting a g2 after my contract is ready for it, and ive got a few questions. I'm not really a noob to all this rooting and cyanogen mod, so i might understand some of the technical jargon. i've rooted my g1 with cyanogen 5.0.8
If you use visionary to temp-root your phone daily, is there any chance for bricking it? Are there are any known problems with using visionary?
what are the main benefits with getting permaroot as opposed to just temp rooting it everytime? im not that interested in roms like cyanogen, gingervillan,etc
can you use setcpu with the stock tmobile g2 rom?
is the hinge really that bad?
does tmobile really monitor tethering? some say that the original g1 plan includes tethering but that just sounds absurd.
what exactly does busybox do? i have asked this several times but havent gotten a clear answer; i know that it has to do with linux, but thats about it :/
theres a section on the wiki about g2 radios; i dont understand what is the problem with the stock radio and why someone would want to flash another one besdies for the reason of getting a better signal, but this leads me to the question of 'doesnt tmobile update the radio? why would we need to manually update radio'?
what are the main differences between using visionary temp to permaroot and the adb method? if i were to use the visionary one, at what point could i enable s- off and hboot?
that being said, is there any news about a new release of visionary?
can't people just ask tmobile for a sim unlock code after 1 year? why do we have to root it and do it?
Looking at the wiki, i dont understand what md5 is when the wiki provides downloads and what it means
what is hboot used for and whats the difference between that and a bootloader (whats a bootloader btw)
can both temp rooting and both versions of permarooting work on 1.19 and 1.12?
thanks!
EDIT: can a mod move this to the right section? (Q&A)
I can only address a few of these questions and leave a majority of them for more intense power-users than myself.
what are the main benefits with getting permaroot as opposed to just temp rooting it everytime
can you use setcpu with the stock tmobile g2 rom?
what exactly does busybox do?
is the hinge really that bad?
can't people just ask tmobile for a sim unlock code after 1 year?
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~I suppose the main difference between perm and temp root would have to be persistence of your root. Once you reboot your phone, you lose temproot. With perm root, this is not an issue and you don't have to set up all your root permissions again and again, thus saving you time.
~No, you cannot use SetCPU on a non-rooted device. Stock rom? Sure, you just gotta have that sweet, sweet super-user sauce.
~Busybox, as far as I can tell, is a prerequisite package to getting titaniumbackup to work. Without the former, the latter will not function.
~The hinge is a matter of perspective. I found it to be rather loose however the merits of this device far outweigh the easily rectified hardware issue. Most users will not have a major issue with the hinge being somewhat lose, however as the stock spring loses oomph as it were, i can see how user dissatisfaction could increase; especially if they're uninformed as to how easy it is to rip the thing apart.
~You should be able to call up customer care and request a sim-unlock code at virtually any time, not just after 1 year. T-mobile is well known for not giving a flying rats ass if you unlock your sim. Keep in mind you will probably encounter some layers of low level phone jockeys in your attempt to do so. Be very clear that you want to be passed up to someone higher in the chain. Even better get a live rep on the tmo-usa website. I found that they're much more knowledgeable and competent.
No cant brick with temp root..the process goes with visionary: you have to gain temp root get an emulater from market type some su commands to get s-off then permaroot your device...now you can oc and have temp root when temp rooted but to flash roms/kernels/custom recovery and not have them erased opon reboot you have to have s-off...the hing is fine it is a lil lose but doesnt effect me at all.id imagine it would effect hip carrier users...bootloader is program to flash radios and things in the safest way..example when you flash a radio in recovery it just flashes in bootloader the file undergoes heavy file checks...(i think)
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
ahh, thank you so much! i really appreciate the clear cut answer; in regard to your setcpu on a stock rom, i forgot to mention that it would be temp rooted. So the main question is, could i use setcpu and over/underclock with a temprooted stock rom?
I can't really see that stopping you. You'll have to set it up every time at boot but it should work without to much issue.
If you don't mind me asking, why are you so focused on persisting your temp root? Perm rooting won't take much time..
for a few reasons;
I'd like to be able to return the phone under warranty without the hassle of unrooting and the risk of something going wrong
Also, I'm a bit afraid of adb to be honest xD I have terrible 'luck' when trying to read directions and something little always goes amiss.
There's always the prospect of gingerbread coming soon to vision, and after i get stock 2.3, i dont have that much of a preference for a rom, setcpu and a few other things that are contained in root only interest me.
i really appreciate all your help, thanks!
With the visionary+gfree method you don't need to really know adb to get anything done. there are some shell commands for terminal emulator but that is about it.
However I can totally understand your desire to be able to turn it back in under warranty. I'm moderately concerned about it myself, as assuming the ATT/Tmobile merger goes through I don't know if I will have to turn this device in for credit on a new handset or what.
As for the prospect of stock 2.3 coming to the Vision you're absolutely right. There is a prospect and I think the saga of the long stalled Froyyo update for the Vibrant should teach us to always be wary of whatever the carrier says. Admittedly the g2 is a legacy device in the eyes of many and should have excellent support. But I'll believe it when I see it.
Stock Rom for me neer went higher than 800MHz
Once I rooted my phone, I could not get the cpu to go higher than 800MHz. I think you might need a new kernel. For me the only things I needed rooting for are: screen shot (droidcap2) and over clocking (better response time).
bradley_e_smith said:
Once I rooted my phone, I could not get the cpu to go higher than 800MHz. I think you might need a new kernel. For me the only things I needed rooting for are: screen shot (droidcap2) and over clocking (better response time).
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As you are already starting to piece together: rooting, in of itself, does not enable overclocking. You need to flash a custom kernel which support overclocking.
Scroll down to "Kernels" on the following page and pick one. Kernels are ROM specific (particularly Sense vs. non-Sense), so be sure to read up and pick the right one.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=916431
Then install an app such as SetCPU or CPU Tuner to change the maximum CPU clocking.
Titanium Backup (to backup apps and app data) and nandroid backups via Clockworkmod/ROM Manager are a couple other invaluable reasons to root. Aside from the more obvious ability to flash custom ROMs.
astriaos said:
As for the prospect of stock 2.3 coming to the Vision you're absolutely right. There is a prospect and I think the saga of the long stalled Froyyo update for the Vibrant should teach us to always be wary of whatever the carrier says. Admittedly the g2 is a legacy device in the eyes of many and should have excellent support. But I'll believe it when I see it.
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I was reading somewhere (I think an XDA post by a former Samsung employee) about how Samsung does not consider ROM updates a part of their contractual obligation to the carriers, and expects to be paid extra for them. Essentially, blackmailing the carriers for software support for their hardware, that they should already be supplying in the first place (and that most other manufacturers do). This was allegedly a big reason for the long delay in Froyo coming to the Galaxy S series.
HTC seems to be a little more agreeable in this respect. They have announced Gingerbread for the Desire Z sometime this spring. But if you're wanting an official GB ROM without Sense, that has not been mentioned yet, unfortunately.
http://pocketnow.com/android/gingerbread-for-htc-desire-hd-z-and-inspire-s-coming-this-spring
Now that we have smaller ASOP/AOKP ROMs, is it possible to Re-Size the System Partition to fully leverage the extra space that before was being used by the Samsung ROM?, thanks
I remember someone saying that, due to the fact the internal memory drivers are proprietary, there wouldn't be a way to resize partitions. Hopefully I'm wrong, though.
What I'm really hoping for is a well-laid-out tutorial for reallocating your external SD card as internal storage.
i'm wondering the same, recently installed SlimBean, still only have 9.7GB free of Internal Storage, my system root indicates only 2.6GB, thats 12.3GB, is that all the 16GB models have after formatting?
i think someone will have to get us to an engineering hboot of sorts
This will likely never happen, period. The eMMCs used in most Android smart phones are only set up to allow partitioning once at the factory, and then never again. It's a hardware thing. You can partition and divide up more, but you can't reclaim or change what's already been partitioned(unless you did it).
What's more likely to happen is, just like with most other Samsung phones I've owned, someone will take the Internal-External-Swap script and modify/update it to work on the Galaxy S4. Basically what this script does is change the mount locations inside the phone so Android believes the SD card is the internal storage, and the former Internal Storage is the external.
EDIT: Example of the script being modified/updated for the Galaxy Note 8.0: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2276193
We did on the Nexus One to get ICS on it. Called Blackrose. S-Off was created, not true, but enough to allow a hex editor to resize partitions. I did this many times to make System larger and Data smaller to flash the bigger rom's like ICS that needed more System size to run properly.
It was developed because of a strong need. If the need is not big enough, no dev may waste their time. The One S got that capability too--
rugmankc said:
We did on the Nexus One to get ICS on it. Called Blackrose. S-Off was created, not true, but enough to allow a hex editor to resize partitions. I did this many times to make System larger and Data smaller to flash the bigger rom's like ICS that needed more System size to run properly.
It was developed because of a strong need. If the need is not big enough, no dev may waste their time. The One S got that capability too--
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While I acknowledge those feats, from my quick research, I'll point out that those were both done with custom HBOOTs which changed the bootloader. As the Galaxy S4's bootloader is not only locked but encrypted, I still have my doubts about this being able to be done.
Were the Nexus One or HTC One S able to reclaim internal storage space for the user in the way that the OP is asking? I'm curious because while making System larger and Data smaller is an good example of re-partitioning, weren't you simply moving around space that was already reserved to the OS area and unavailable to the user... if that statement makes any sense. This is stepping outside my realm of expertise here, and I'll admit that my technical knowledge is very limited. The last time I heard these proposals were back when the T-Mobile G2 came out and folks were asking the same questions then.
EDIT: Ultimately you're right, and demand will drive innovation either way. IF the devs find a way to do this, I'll be pleased. If they find way to swap the internal/externals, I'll be happy with that too.
It was a moving around of sizes. Make one larger and one smaller. Total size had to remain same. Not sure if anyone will do it. But, may be possible. Outside of my expertise too.
Sent From My 32gb Samsung Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 2
Awwww crap. In that case I think I'm refusing delivery of my AT&T GS4. Sucks...
the pit file for the gegs4 would resize it
HumanXv2 said:
the pit file for the gegs4 would resize it
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You go first trying that
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda app-developers app
jd1639 said:
You go first trying that
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda app-developers app
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I will when my phone gets here monday and the files are available. Really no reason it shouldn't work but I may be wrong. I odin'd Tmobile files onto my S3(bootloader,csc,rom) and it worked fine.
Im on Tmobile and would prefer to rid the phone of all traces of ATT =)
HumanXv2 said:
I will when my phone gets here monday and the files are available. Really no reason it shouldn't work but I may be wrong. I odin'd Tmobile files onto my S3(bootloader,csc,rom) and it worked fine.
Im on Tmobile and would prefer to rid the phone of all traces of ATT =)
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Odin will probably error out if you try that, due to the locked bootloader.
I thought a full odin file had the bootloader?
mattdm said:
Odin will probably error out if you try that, due to the locked bootloader.
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If he's lucky. I predict a brick.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda app-developers app
jd1639 said:
If he's lucky. I predict a brick.
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Maybe so. And if it bricks, it will be a hard brick.
HumanXv2 said:
I thought a full odin file had the bootloader?
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Unless it is signed by Samsung with the correct authentication key, it won't matter. If you run across said key...you will be one popular individual.
Ok so there are keys on the phones non writable memory and when the phone boots up it has to match keys with the bootloader and all to boot?
Thank you. This is much better than "it wont work"
HumanXv2 said:
Ok so there are keys on the phones non writable memory and when the phone boots up it has to match keys with the bootloader and all to boot?
Thank you. This is much better than "it wont work"
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Yea, but it runs a lot deeper than that. The "chain of trust" employed by this phone goes all the way down to the hardware not just NV. Loki sidesteps the process (again, there is more to it than that), but can be software patched by AT&T / Samsung. So far, the three best ways at getting at this bootloader seem to be:
1. Obtaining Samsung's encryption key. It would most certainly have to be released or leaked because it would be near impossible to break the encryption by other methods.
2. Somehow allow a secondary bootloader to run on the device. I think Devs are still waiting for the full release of KNOX to see if it would allow this or not.
3. Somehow disable the hardware fuses that are part of the chain of trust. This is very unlikely and would require the ability to re-press certain circuitry and develop new code. And if successful, every single phone would have to be done that way. So although I mentioned it, it's really not a viable option at all.
The bottom line is to NEVER take a software OTA from AT&T or Samsung until it is checked and cleared by Devs and (in the near future), if you need to send your phone for warranty repair or need to exchange it, you might be screwed.
This is not wise at all. We're talking hardbrick here.