Related
http://code.google.com/android/
incase anyones not familiar with android, check that site out.
im not sure why there isnt more development or developers that are going after this in terms of getting it working on all devices? im currently using it on my vogue and its amazing. definately better UI in terms of EVERYTHING. its open source, so i think developers should be all over this! has so much potential its kind of ridiculous
vogue thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=382265
its working about 80% now thanks to amazing developer martin.
the browser and everything (overall UI) are so much better and smoother than windows mobile! and being that its open source with google ENCOURAGING development of apps and themes and skins and whatnot, i think this is the next best thing to happen to ppc's.
THIS is the actual iphone killer.
just some samples
on a vogue (very smooth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0z9bWiAT44
just a demo of the browser (mine is actually a little smoother than this)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2FpDDEVWtk
the reason im posting this here is because i was the first one to post in this section with manilla2d (when udk first released it), asking whether we can get this on other devices, and look what happened with that. if we can get the amazing developers from here to work on this like they worked on m2d, then wow this will be amazing!
Yeah, even I'm suprised at the low level of excitement of porting this to all devices. Hoping for some real development . Btw, those videos are pretty impressive.
Akshay
Yeah... I'm a little surprised too.
I have a Vogue now, so I'm OK, but I'd love to see somebody pick this project up for the Touch Pro. It seems to be very similar to the G1, so the porting would be a lot more complete than the porting to the Vogue.
Hopefully somebody with the skills (read: not me) will undertake this.
it'll pick up. i say in 6 months to a year people will snap out of the apple app dev craze. but from a dev point of view, apple is where its at right now. the amount of money you could make is a driver by all means.
htc will also be a key part in this. when they start to release better looking hardware, perhaps something on par with the diamond....you'll see a user increase. and user increase translate into dev interest. so just hang in there....i think you'll get what you want soon.
A ppc that works only on 80 Percent ? And no additional Software, no outlook syncronisation? Thats at the moment somthing for freaks or people with a second device
If there would be a 100 Percent Android i would install it, believe me, because i´m not very happy with windows anymore.
So i think we must wait and hope.
My next Device in half a year will be hopefully the Touch HD with Android rolleyes
because it makes no sense to port androud to a phone that is not 3G with GPS.
the only advantage of the g phone that I saw was the service. 3G and free GPS! i'm like, how much for the puppy in the window?
I honestly think that porting it to my wizard would be senseless.
without the service the gphone is just a phone wothout service.
S.V.I said:
because it makes no sense to port androud to a phone that is not 3G with GPS.
the only advantage of the g phone that I saw was the service. 3G and free GPS! i'm like, how much for the puppy in the window?
I honestly think that porting it to my wizard would be senseless.
without the service the gphone is just a phone wothout service.
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Click to collapse
Of course it is always pointless. We do it because we can (and because we don't want to do anything while at work)
(and much like bluemetal, we are all tired of the same old look and functionality in our WM devices). Then again, it can always be worse....
we could all have iphones
Anyways, I am looking forward to someone porting this to the Blue Angel.
The bigest stumbling block for me is lack of Exchange support. GPS isn't really necessary with the cell tower triangulation available. The accuracy is getting better. It will never be as tight as GPS but close is good enough for me. I can do with out 3G (I wish I had it) I don't enjoy the experience with the little screen. It's like looking at the ocean through a porthole. A 5 inch screen with much better resolution would be great. I use it for quick info but surfing is not fun.
I do like the idea of going linux on the phone. It would be that much closer to having a truely mobile desktop. We wouldn't have to install resource hogging shells that ride on top of an already bloated today screen to get better customization.
I think the biggest problem overall though is the hardware needed will put a lot of older equipment like my little wizard out to pasture. I don't have the funds to rush out an purchase a new phone. And yes I think all the bugs will need to be shaken out for a while before I take the plunge. Maybe by the 2nd or third generation of Android things will be a little less "bleeding edge". It all looks great now but I rely on my phone too much to gamble on an untried system.
To be completely honest, I too am suprised by the lack of progress.
This is a complete replacement for Windows Mobile: something we've all only dreamed about up until now. It will have a wicked Dev community around it soon enough.
There were a hell of a lot of efforts to get the Beta running. But now... nothing?
*so confused
The worst part is, it'd be gorgeous on my LG KS20, but I doubt we'll see it anytime soon: no one loves us KS20 owners. Guess you were all just jealous of our drivers.
bluemetalaxe said:
A ppc that works only on 80 Percent ? And no additional Software, no outlook syncronisation? Thats at the moment somthing for freaks or people with a second device
If there would be a 100 Percent Android i would install it, believe me, because i´m not very happy with windows anymore.
So i think we must wait and hope.
My next Device in half a year will be hopefully the Touch HD with Android rolleyes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't know if you read my whole post, but i never said "hey everyone lets run something 80% finished on our ppcs."
waiting and hoping isnt going to do anything, thats why i started this thread. to get more attention instead of sitting and waiting for something we arent sure is going to ever happen.
im glad a lot of other people are on the same page as me, wondering why there is barely any development for this. thanks for the support guys
lets get some devs in here to weigh in on this!
Well, there's a number of quite simple reasons...
- Porting Android to another device isn't as simple as "Hey, it's Open Source, you just have to compile and install". First of all, you'd need to find a working cross compiler for ARM in the first place (one using Windows' API, like those used for PPC apps isn't much help). Then you'd need to write drivers for usually undocumented hardware with this cross compiler or in ARM assembler (reusing existing WM drivers, like in cooked ROMs, wouldn't work in Linux). Finally, you need to find a way to flash that system to your PPC (that's a bit more work than a patched/cooked variation of an already existing WM ROM), and so on. That's work for the kind of freaks who would do their taxes binary in mind...
- Writing apps for a system almost nobody own so far isn't that attractive. It's even less attractive if the potential developer doesn't own one - the real experience is always a bit different to an emulator, and usually would like some use for himself, too (what good is an mobile app for you if you'd need a laptop with emulator to use it? ). So far, there's only one official Android device out there, and aside from the fact it's still a bit "first try, for developers only" (no Outlook sync, ugly design, ...), you only get it in very few parts of the world or in overpriced eBay auctions. Inofficial ports with reduced functionality and maybe buggy or slow "beta" drivers aren't that great, too...
- While the Android API is quite close to common Java style, it's still something completely new, which requires some time to get into the framework's basic style, the available functions, the loopholes and small tricks, etc. With WM, the gap to common Windows (desktop) programming is way smaller, and I guess it's similar with the iPhone and Mac programming.
Or, in other words: Give Andoid some time to grow up. IMHO, G1 and the few existing ports are a playground for hackers and early adopters, so they can get startet with fixing (security holes, missing functionality, ...). Then, in some months, more devices with a "hacker improved" Android will be published, and when developers buy those, they also will start writing apps if they are missing something.
you'd think more people would be starting to port.. because god is that g1 terrible, you have to have sharpened pencils for fingers to type on that flush keyboard)
Mort said:
Well, there's a number of quite simple reasons...
- Porting Android to another device isn't as simple as "Hey, it's Open Source, you just have to compile and install". First of all, you'd need to find a working cross compiler for ARM in the first place (one using Windows' API, like those used for PPC apps isn't much help). Then you'd need to write drivers for usually undocumented hardware with this cross compiler or in ARM assembler (reusing existing WM drivers, like in cooked ROMs, wouldn't work in Linux). Finally, you need to find a way to flash that system to your PPC (that's a bit more work than a patched/cooked variation of an already existing WM ROM), and so on. That's work for the kind of freaks who would do their taxes binary in mind...
- Writing apps for a system almost nobody own so far isn't that attractive. It's even less attractive if the potential developer doesn't own one - the real experience is always a bit different to an emulator, and usually would like some use for himself, too (what good is an mobile app for you if you'd need a laptop with emulator to use it? ). So far, there's only one official Android device out there, and aside from the fact it's still a bit "first try, for developers only" (no Outlook sync, ugly design, ...), you only get it in very few parts of the world or in overpriced eBay auctions. Inofficial ports with reduced functionality and maybe buggy or slow "beta" drivers aren't that great, too...
- While the Android API is quite close to common Java style, it's still something completely new, which requires some time to get into the framework's basic style, the available functions, the loopholes and small tricks, etc. With WM, the gap to common Windows (desktop) programming is way smaller, and I guess it's similar with the iPhone and Mac programming.
Or, in other words: Give Andoid some time to grow up. IMHO, G1 and the few existing ports are a playground for hackers and early adopters, so they can get startet with fixing (security holes, missing functionality, ...). Then, in some months, more devices with a "hacker improved" Android will be published, and when developers buy those, they also will start writing apps if they are missing something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok now these reasons make a lot of sense. im just surprised that not as many people are trying to get it started so they can get started on fixing, like you said. but ok, all of your other reasons make complete sense. im sure the future releases of android will only get better.
android just seems like exactly what many of us have been looking for in wm devices, basically, a complete UI replacement endorsed/created by a large company (other than microsoft lol).
jakub_w said:
im just surprised that not as many people are trying to get it started so they can get started on fixing, like you said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who knows? AFAIK, the order numbers aren't that bad, and all those reviewers give some feedback, too. I mean, it's only a week since the G1 is available at all, and, as said, it's not very attractive so far. Not everybody wants to spend hundreds of dollars just to provide Google with requests and code changes and T-Mobile and HTC with money...
android just seems like exactly what many of us have been looking for in wm devices, basically, a complete UI replacement endorsed/created by a large company (other than microsoft lol).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think the UI is the really big thing about Android. You can even replace it completely, and I don't know (yet) where the limits / design guides are for applications. I just hope it doesn't get as confusing as Linux on the desktop, where even a Gnome or KDE desktop can be modified so far that it's almost as hard to switch distros as switching from Windows to MacOS...
The important things about Android are more in the basic technology, imho, like
- A stable, timeless system core (*nix is older than me, so "modern" is not quite correct - that goes for MacOS X, too, btw...)
- Seamless integration of connection management and phone functions (opposed to WM, where it still acts like a makeshift patchwork, and with every update less APIs are working...)
- Portable application framework (Java, lots of system APIs)
- Simple application installation (no "is this EXE a PC setup or the PPC executable?", "How the hell do I install a CAB file?", ...)
However, I still wonder how/if Andoid will support direct PC synchronization (for shared files, contacts, appointments, music, ...) and how fast and memory consumptive the required Java VM is... (Well, at least none of the G1 reviews I read complained about that, so it seems to be faster than .NET on WM...)
i was just playing around with android and in the dev tools or api demos theres a section called opengl es. i have a vogue and i tried these, they ran extremely smoothly. isnt this something that everyone has been saying is impossible? (specifically for getting tf3d to run on the vogue) i think this proves that software driven 3d is more than capable of handling tf3d. just a thought.
jakub_w said:
i was just playing around with android and in the dev tools or api demos theres a section called opengl es. i have a vogue and i tried these, they ran extremely smoothly. isnt this something that everyone has been saying is impossible? (specifically for getting tf3d to run on the vogue) i think this proves that software driven 3d is more than capable of handling tf3d. just a thought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I definitely agree with you on that. Thing is though is that this is a completely different environment with a different set of drivers (and rules) which makes (for example) modifying their parameters to allow for keys normally used for certain functions in WM to be used for something completely different. Also OpenGL (ES) is all that is used on *nix OSes whether or not they run on full or embedded hardware. All that's needed is the driver for the graphics chip. Microsoft wants you to use their proprietary D3D not OpenGL (ES) hence why it was impossible to have OpenGL (ES) before. Also TF3D uses DirectX and not OpenGL ES AFAIK.
Android is great. Only thing I need is a way to get the SDcard image working and a HTC Touch Pro to port Android, Angstrom and/or OpenMoko to, I'd be set.
why would you develop software for an operating system that isn't even fully ported yet?
joel2009 said:
why would you develop software for an operating system that isn't even fully ported yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Weeell....
- It's Linux and Open Source (some people wouldn't touch a closed system with a stick...)
- It's nice to be prepared when you get the running system
- There is a device with that OS
- The documentation is way better than Microsoft's
- There's a good chance the API will remain compatible, so it doesn't hurt to start early (opposed to WM, where some basic features can/could only be done with device dependant or inofficial APIs, which were dropped in newer updates...)
Just became aware of this, thought it's pretty cool. not eye-candy for most, i agree. Also, projects like this just shows how flexible Android can be. First port is running on Nexus S and Nook Color, but devs of the project recommend Cyanogenmod as base. Maybe this could come in to sgs too
What are your thoughts on this? I'm a big fan of tiling window managers on linux, so i would definately would try this.
hellaphone src
utube demo on nexus s
The geek factor is high I must say.
jose.celestino said:
The geek factor is high I must say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
aren't we all
there are those who run debian on our phones! this is more mobile oriented i think. i don't know nothing about java, but i read Google is trying to push javascript away from website programming, bringing instead a language they call Dart. If this works out, they could bring it in to Android? Even though java makes part of Android code...
After looking at Android's fragmentation, the pain that one has to go through for every damn update is really getting to me! Google has really screwed this one up big time...its funny to even see the number of different screen sizes, hardware configurations android is being used. No standardization makes it a nightmare for developers to write applications that are consistent. Its hard to imagine that google has been so short sighted!
Asus is surely a brilliant company to have come out with a great tablet (and their newer tabs are kick ass too at great price points). But its really bothersome if I'm always in some sort of dependence on the manufacturer to release OS updates - this is just plain crazy! If Google's aim of ICS was to converge all devices to use the same OS, then why aren't they supporting manufacturers or insisting on all manufacturers to push out an update?
To start things, Google has really messed up their long term roadmap with fragmentation issues...and I would expect a company of that scale to atleast put in some sort of contractual commitments with all its manufacturing partners to roll out updates to its customers within a given timeline.
Here is what I would expect Google to have implemented yesterday, if they really need to retain popularity towards Android and keep it growing -
1. No more fragmentation moving forward. Standardization of screen resolutions, minimum performance requirements, ram, storage requirements etc.
2. Device manufacturers must commit to issuing software updates within some timeline from when google has an update.
3. Manufacturers dont decide if the update can run on their device or not - it must be google who decides this, and should be decided based on hardware specs
Now with Windows 8 on the horizon, I would definitely wait it out and move over to a Windows 8 based tablet. Knowing Microsoft, they're perhaps the only company who invests a lot of time and thinking in getting things right. It shows clearly from their development tools/platform, their emulators, clean implementation rather than an iterative approach etc.
Last android tablet for sure! And I'm hoping windows phone 7 will mature too, and its windows 8 variant should be a lot more promising. Thats when I would phase out my Galaxy S and head back to MS
What are your thoughts people?
cheers,
San
dreamtheater39 said:
Knowing Microsoft, they're perhaps the only company who invests a lot of time and thinking in getting things right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha, you made my day XD ...btw. throwing the word "vista" into the ring ^^
coming to win8. i just read an article today that the arm version of windows is most likely not able to run desktop programs. asuming that: WOOOOOW, Windows 8
If you prefer a monolithic OS to the liberty you get with Android that's your choice.
Personally, I do not. I do not like being locked into one vendor who gets to decide how I use my device.
I like having a choice between a smartphone, a 7", 8.9", 10.1" or even 11.5" tablet, or even a laptop that I can run the same OS (Android) on.
I love the Transformer. I have one device that is truly a tablet and, with root, also serves the full functionality of a laptop. What can Windows offer me that does this? What can iOS offer me that can replace my Transformer?
And that's besides the fact that with a Windows device I'm stuck with an OS that I am familiar with the shortcomings of, and unable to do anything about. Or with iOS that, again, no one can fix but the manufacturer (if they feel like it).
Yes, fragmentation of the Android platform is a bit of a problem. The Market addresses this, somewhat, by only showing software you can install on your device. Most Android devs are sensitive to their customer's needs and a polite email is frequently responded to positively, and usually with a fix in short order.
Frankly, I consider the fragmented markets (GetJar, Market, Amazon App Store, etc) to be a far larger problem than fragmentation of the OS, and I don't consider that to be anywhere close to a large problem.
Hmmm my thoughts
1. They have set an agreement with there partners. A new timeline that they must update devices within a set life span for a device think it was around a year and a half have a google on it. (p.s year and a half aint bad considering how fast mobile tech is moving)
2. It should not be a problem for devs to write apps for ics and the differences in hardware are accounted for
3. ms well thought out vista ms dos longhorn??? ms dos was not future thinking and very short sighted especially in terms of ram!!!!!! if anyone remembers vista was a plain mess!! and longhorn didnt even meet the public. Not to mention the many other flaws or screw ups (anyone remember xp early days it was hackers heaven)
4. At its roots android is linux google the track record for updates and security between ms and linux then whie you're at it google how many servers in the world run linux compared to ms
5. The biggest flaw of all ms was a single user platform a pc the first pc they now want to make it multi user and move toward cloud computing etc etc linux has been doing this for years so inherantly android can do the same ms on the other hand is having to kick there own ass so hard bills teeth have been replaced with hes toe nails
6. I like win 8 and 7 for one reason gamming and a couple programs i just cant get otherwise but as soon as i can do these things elsewhere or linux based i will.
You do have good points but i just wanted to step in as the other side of the coin.
Sent from my tf Enigmatic V2 beta 1.65Ghz Panda.test cust kernel settings
If you really want to be assured you can run everything on every device I suggest you look at Apple. The iPad will continue to be the dominate tablet for years to come and then you can be assured that everything will be packaged nicely and controlled in the manner decreed in Cupertino.
Open source means a trading a messier support structure for more innovation, and is not for everyone.
blestsol said:
Just leave please and get your ipad.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Enough said, whining isn't usefull here.
Seriously what do you want us to say? Good writting nice information, thanks for the info!!
I mean wtf?
Reported the thread.
Klau you do relise where XDA stands for and what the DEVELOPERS word means behind it?
XDA is for developing and helping people when they want to use costum roms or other non officeal related subjects
If you are unsatisfied with a device use the offical forum of ASUS, thats the right place!
Are any of the responses written by a mod?
So since when did everyone get appointed the responsibility to decide what is allowed to be discussed on this board, which isn't even the developer forum, it's on the general forum.
If you don't think the topic is relevant to you, just don't enter it. Let the mod do their job.
---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------
blestsol said:
Ooc, you don't agree of disagree... Why you responding? People use words wrong so much... Fan boy? Man you reaching. Foh. You sick of something ignore it and take your own advice. Dip from the thread. Simple ass that for your simple ass.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Learn to read, I said if you disagree, state your reason.
I've stated my reason of disagreement regarding the unfriendly atmosphere of this board.
You're grasping at straws that don't exist look who's reaching lol
klau1 said:
Are any of the responses written by a mod?
So since when did everyone get appointed the responsibility to decide what is allowed to be discussed on this board, which isn't even the developer forum, it's on the general forum.
If you don't think the topic is relevant to you, just don't enter it. Let the mod do their job.
---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------
Learn to read, I said if you disagree, state your reason.
I've stated my reason of disagreement regarding the unfriendly atmosphere of this board.
You're grasping at straws that don't exist look who's reaching lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't disagree. My post said what I meant. What he was describing is what ios can give him. Please show where my fan boy thoughts are though. In my short sentence.
I'll wait for that though.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
silversx80 said:
Oh, the irony :
Here's the thing, the OP is an open-ended criticism on things the android community praises about the android platform. Praising those things does not make one a fanboy, nor does calling one a fanboy render an ages-old demotivational poster anything less than a sophomoric response in the hopes that a chuckle will sway the reader over to your point of view.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, face palm has always been my actual sentiment about the responses here, and pictures help prevents a large post from getting ignored.
silversx80 said:
Someone criticizes the platform as a whole, one which others really enjoy (including myself), and makes the declaration that they're moving over to another, which is much better. Their assessment is based only on opinionated observations from their point of view, which is hardly an inconvenience to anyone else. Of course they're going to get a "get the f*ck out" response, and deserve nothing less. It's like when the Christians invaded the Turks and tried to convert the entire group of people.
It brings up the ages-old motherly line of wisdom: If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all.
There is nothing wrong with desiring something that is better for your uses, but use that as a premise. Don't start by lambasting the opposition, especially when you know what the system is about and you know the offerings of the competition. Some people may actually enjoy the things you don't.
In my opinion, ALL of the devises and software are AMAZING when you consider what the all do.
Instead, we get a bunch of non-contributing, product-zero, whiny little girls. You know what, that's fine; next time you think of complaining, go make your own. As soon as yours is better, then you can complain about other offerings.
Until then, STFU and GTFO.
P.S. If android will be more successful as a standardized platform, we'll see it move that way. I write that with reservation, as android is currently the #1 mobile platform in the world, so they must be doing something right... much to the chagrin of the OP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look, every reasonably intelligent person understands trade-off exist. Simply one comes to mind:
can a "God be powerful enough to create a rock so heavy that even it can't lift it?"
Usability comes at the expense of functionality, everyone should understand that.
But people forget that sometimes, not a big deal, just explain it to them instead of acting like an internet bully. That doesn't help your point across.
silversx80 said:
It brings up the ages-old motherly line of wisdom: If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because you disagree with the OP doesn't mean it was not "nice" or offensive
lol's were had reading this thread.
klau1 said:
Just because you disagree with the OP doesn't mean it was not "nice" or offensive
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, basically what he did was akin to going over to VW Vortex, complaining about all the reasons why his little 2.5 Golf was not like the current offerings from Toyota, and said that when the new Hondas come out, he's getting one of those.
There is no purpose in his post other than to demean and criticize. There is nothing productive, nor contributory about it. No, I didn't have to read, nor post, but I felt compelled.
If someone want's to leave for a better personal option, that's fine. If they want to make a scene and flip the table on the way out, then they shouldn't expect a positive reception to their announcement.
As much as I hate Apple, I do think that progress requires contrast. What do I mean? We need a solidified company like Apple that keeps pushing the same standard but slightly better (that's like peer-reviewed science). We need a looser society of innovators like Google's associates who play around at the edges of what we expect at the moment (who are like fringe scientists, some contribute great genius ideas, and some who completely **** it up). For me, I like the fringe scientist; I understand the need for peer-review, but I think I'll stick with Android for at least the next tablet too.
A WARNING FROM THE MODERATOR
A WARNING FROM THE MODERATOR
Play nice..........
talk nice ........
Or you will be banned.......
And I will close the thread
To those who reported this bad behavior, thank you
Keep it civil, Folks
Thanks ~ oka1 Moderator
Did they demo a Windows 8 ARM device at CES? I am very curious as to how Windows 8 will perform.
This is a very interesting project that could either excel if developers jump onboard, or crash horribly if developers reject the idea of Windows on ARM.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Interesting feedback from all you guys!
Just to clear things out, from where i come from -
-I've always loved android for the flexibility it gives me. I've always made custom roms, modded the hell out of every device i've ever had, starting way back from the Pocket PC days! Android - seemed like the most perfect option for me.
-I've always stayed away from Apple, for a myriad of reasons - they dictate everything, and i hate that. And also, i hate being in the bucket of half wit fanboys who bought one just to be "cool"
-I work for one of the biggest game companies, and i'm responsible for technology direction for smartphones, tablets. So, let me tell you what this looks like from a developer's view point -
A game is always written for iOS first - reason being, the platform is standardized in terms of display resolutions, hardware capabilities. Testing effort is extremely low in comparison (you dont have to test on a 100 devices!)
You have only 2 aspect ratios to deal with - phone & tablet. And you know that your game will run on all the iphones and ipads floating in the world. So this makes it easy from development & testing points of view. And this is the reason why games are "always" developed for iOS first.
Now the fun begins - once the game is done and is out on iTunes, there are large conversion teams which takes care of getting it to run on android phones and tablets. You have to see the hardware inventory we have here - so manyyyy android phones and tablets - and all of these have to be tested to give it a QA greenlight. Even when devices have the same hardware specs, each device behaves differently at times because the manufacturers have written different drivers specific to the device!
And then now, we have honeycomb and ICS - the screen has a static status bar in the bottom which takes away 48 pixels from your screen! Suddenly, your game needs to factor odd resolutions of 1280x752, 1232x800, 1024x552, etc etc. This means - redesigning all your game menus, UI, dialogs so that they dont leak out of the screen - crazy load of work! And then - you can have ONLY ONE APK to support ALL THESE resolutions and hardware configurations!
And then finally to top it all, you have several different market places, custom roms to test on, devices that the developer blacklists because of incompatibility - bypasses blacklisting on the market place because of a custom rom/hack...and he ends up playing the game giving us bad ratings!
The list is endless! I really feel this should not be the case for such a huge platform coming from a really big ass company! Honestly, i feel android made it big because it came in at the right time when the hardware side of things was at a great level - allowing them to give super slick graphics. And they had no other competition (windows mobile was too old, and the other was just iOS). They just got lucky, went without a clear plan - and iteratively refined and fixed things.
Atleast now, I feel Google should really accelerate its efforts towards some form of convergence. Look at the variance that a developer needs to take care of - different hardware configs/specs (ram, storage, processor!) - performance wise, different screen resolutions (a 100 different combinations! literally!), custom roms/modding, different manufacturer driven hardware/software customization, a zillion different OS versions, and so on. All this has to be factored, and we can have only 1 apk! And then finally, the provided android emulator that they provide - is soooo damn sorry, its not even funny. The emulator is literally like a slide show on my really powerful desktop - forget trying to use the built in emulator for developing games!
At the end, the platform lives because of the number of developers who support it. If customers dont have newer and better experiences coming - they would shift boats - its as simple. Making it harder for developers is just shooting yourself in the foot!
-San
dreamtheater39 said:
At the end, the platform lives because of the number of developers who support it. If customers dont have newer and better experiences coming - they would shift boats - its as simple. Making it harder for developers is just shooting yourself in the foot!
-San
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a huge problem with this statement, and pretty much the rest of your post. They are not a valid presumptions.
First, the developer and platform support each other. The platform does not live because the developer supports it... I'd argue that it's the other way around, but still a 2-way street. Without the platform, the developer cannot develop.
Second, games from the big developers may be released on iOS first, and some may be released on Android first. Without references, your statement in invalid. If you're only referring to your company, then specify that.
Third, screen resolution (and other oddities) may be a contributing factor in some app developers not bringing iOS apps to Android, but the vetting process of the Apple App Store discourages other developers from even trying to release anything onto iOS. Some devs don't even want to program things for iOS based on principle (and visa versa).
Fourth, the whole reason big mobile-platform app developer companies exist is to make money. Why alienate more than 50% of the market because of screen resolution? That would be lazy and counter-productive to profits.
Fifth, one could argue that it's not the big-time devs who got each platform off the ground, but the small-time devs, who released their apps for free. It wasn't the gaming capabilities that sold Android and iOS early on; that's a very narrow perspective.
Sixth, Android isn't being shot in the proverbial foot by different market places, those particular devices may be. The Nook and Kindle Fire come to mind, but keep in mind that those were sold on the premise that they're electronic readers first, that happen to run a modified version of Android.
I feel that you're upset over Android making it harder for you to earn a paycheck. I understand the challenges involved, but I think you're not looking at the big picture.
I moved to Windows Mobile phones from Palm devices because I wanted better synching with my computer, use of the .Net framework, and ease of customization ability. Turned out that WM was not intuitive on my early phones.
I moved from WM to webOS. Loved it. It was intuitive, smooth and reliable. Customization wasn't very easy, but I didn't care. Also, it had support of the big app developers and had some pretty good games too. Unfortunately, it didn't have support of the small-time app devs because of the difficulty writing apps for it. Where is it now?
From there, I knew that webOS was going to be short-lived, so I moved to Android. No, it's not as stable as iOS or webOS, but it is still a great OS. Small devs can get a chance in the app market, along with big-time devs who write cross-platform.
Windows 8 may be a great platform, but the big picture is that there is no cult-following for Microsoft as there is for Apple. What they need to do is give potential-customers options. Those options need to range from inexpensive, to top of the line. Different hardware, in other words (a nightmare for devs). If they don't, and since they don't have a die-hard following, I suspect it wont gain as much ground as Android did, or even webOS.
Apple has a good customer base, and knows what that customer wants. It's an easy sell. Windows customers are far too diverse and can't accept a blanket-type device range to cover all the wants and needs like Apple customers can. Android addresses those customers by providing options because it's an open architecture. Fragmentation sucks for the devs, but the user doesn't care because the typical user only has one device. Those users are why the devs exist at all.
To sum up, I think three things:
1. Your assessment of Android's shortcomings are somewhat short-sighted and not applicable to the big picture. The user wants the experience of the phone, not the apps. Apps are just noise now, with hundreds doing the same thing.
2. Your arguments are falling on deaf ears, or ears that cannot do anything about your complaints (i.e. I don't think Android's authors are reading this thread with much merit).
3. Your arguments would be better suited in the iOS, or Windows 8 sub-forums.
I was thinking about the horror of all the different Android devices when looking at them from a Dev's point of view (which I am NOT) so I appreciate your openness and insight.
The main reason why I will stay away from an iOS tablet for a long time is simply that the interface on a tablet needs to be more flexible than simply arranging icons to start apps. In other words, as long as iOS does not support widgets there's no appeal to me to buy an Apple tablet. Very narrow-minded, I know. Having an iPh*one (3GS) is not optimal but I am still waiting for an Android phone that intrigues me and is NOT linked to VZW.
dreamtheater39 said:
Interesting feedback from all you guys!
Just to clear things out, from where i come from -
-I've always loved android for the flexibility it gives me. I've always made custom roms, modded the hell out of every device i've ever had, starting way back from the Pocket PC days! Android - seemed like the most perfect option for me.
-I've always stayed away from Apple, for a myriad of reasons - they dictate everything, and i hate that. And also, i hate being in the bucket of half wit fanboys who bought one just to be "cool"
-I work for one of the biggest game companies, and i'm responsible for technology direction for smartphones, tablets. So, let me tell you what this looks like from a developer's view point -
A game is always written for iOS first - reason being, the platform is standardized in terms of display resolutions, hardware capabilities. Testing effort is extremely low in comparison (you dont have to test on a 100 devices!)
You have only 2 aspect ratios to deal with - phone & tablet. And you know that your game will run on all the iphones and ipads floating in the world. So this makes it easy from development & testing points of view. And this is the reason why games are "always" developed for iOS first.
Now the fun begins - once the game is done and is out on iTunes, there are large conversion teams which takes care of getting it to run on android phones and tablets. You have to see the hardware inventory we have here - so manyyyy android phones and tablets - and all of these have to be tested to give it a QA greenlight. Even when devices have the same hardware specs, each device behaves differently at times because the manufacturers have written different drivers specific to the device!
And then now, we have honeycomb and ICS - the screen has a static status bar in the bottom which takes away 48 pixels from your screen! Suddenly, your game needs to factor odd resolutions of 1280x752, 1232x800, 1024x552, etc etc. This means - redesigning all your game menus, UI, dialogs so that they dont leak out of the screen - crazy load of work! And then - you can have ONLY ONE APK to support ALL THESE resolutions and hardware configurations!
And then finally to top it all, you have several different market places, custom roms to test on, devices that the developer blacklists because of incompatibility - bypasses blacklisting on the market place because of a custom rom/hack...and he ends up playing the game giving us bad ratings!
The list is endless! I really feel this should not be the case for such a huge platform coming from a really big ass company! Honestly, i feel android made it big because it came in at the right time when the hardware side of things was at a great level - allowing them to give super slick graphics. And they had no other competition (windows mobile was too old, and the other was just iOS). They just got lucky, went without a clear plan - and iteratively refined and fixed things.
Atleast now, I feel Google should really accelerate its efforts towards some form of convergence. Look at the variance that a developer needs to take care of - different hardware configs/specs (ram, storage, processor!) - performance wise, different screen resolutions (a 100 different combinations! literally!), custom roms/modding, different manufacturer driven hardware/software customization, a zillion different OS versions, and so on. All this has to be factored, and we can have only 1 apk! And then finally, the provided android emulator that they provide - is soooo damn sorry, its not even funny. The emulator is literally like a slide show on my really powerful desktop - forget trying to use the built in emulator for developing games!
At the end, the platform lives because of the number of developers who support it. If customers dont have newer and better experiences coming - they would shift boats - its as simple. Making it harder for developers is just shooting yourself in the foot!
-San
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought the name of the game was resolution independence, designing your UI's without depending on absolute values but rather relative values and taking into account resolution size, using DP measurement units instead of PX. The last time I worked on an app was a while ago but even then the app scaled fine from something as small as a Droid 2 to something as large (was large at the time) as a Nook Color or a Galaxy Tab.
So are you saying Apple has it better because they only have two screen sizes? Who cares if there are fifty different screen sizes and fifty different resolutions? If you design your UI and your app correctly with resolution independence in mind it should scale well to most if not every resolution and every aspect ratio shouldn't it?
Even when devices have the same hardware specs, each device behaves differently at times because the manufacturers have written different drivers specific to the device!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you referring to certain things like how device GPU's vary and therefore certain texture compression methods in OpenGL for example only work with ATI GPU's and not PowerVR GPU's and vice versa?
I do agree that fragmentation exists but only between Android versions such as those running 1.5, 1.6, 2.2, 3.0, 4.0, etcetera but you can deal with this. I doubt they'll standardize hardware. Maybe screen sizes, maybe screen resolutions but manufacturers are there to make money, not play equal to every other manufacturer. If HTC wants to release a better phone with a better resolution to make more money Google isn't going to tell them to do otherwise. The only reason this is different with Apple is because Apple is the only one making hardware for their iOS so there are no companies fighting over each other for profits. They can control the whole platform. Obviously with Android you have multiple hardware manufacturers and they're not all part of the same company, they're looking to make profits over each other and that means devices have varying features. That's just how Android is unless Google makes their own devices and restricts Android to Google devices.
I think I would like the idea of uniformity better too, not as strict as Apple but certain things being the same across all vendors. We're heading that way in a sense since Google is requiring all ICS devices to support the Holo theme. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future we get more restrictions from Google but as for forcing manufacturers to make certain hardware? That I truly doubt. Google has made it possible to work with different devices by allowing you to query for different device features such as checking for a keyboard or a trackball or an accelerometer, use resolution independent practices such as DP measurements and relative positioning, it's not as bad as it seems IMO.
different hardware configs/specs (ram, storage, processor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So? What developer hasn't had to deal with this on virtually every system developed on since the origin of computing? Because Apple managed to create an illusion that this is irrelevant by making a handful of devices with fixed hardware and therefore only having to achieve acceptable performance on those devices? Make the decision to alienate those who don't fit the requirements. Alienating a certain group from support isn't going to be the end of the world. Games are sure to use Tegra 3 and those without Tegra 3 devices might be assed out if the game can't scale down. The world continues...
Tubular said:
I thought the name of the game was resolution independence, designing your UI's without depending on absolute values but rather relative values and taking into account resolution size, using DP measurement units instead of PX. The last time I worked on an app was a while ago but even then the app scaled fine from something as small as a Droid 2 to something as large (was large at the time) as a Nook Color or a Galaxy Tab.
So are you saying Apple has it better because they only have two screen sizes? Who cares if there are fifty different screen sizes and fifty different resolutions? If you design your UI and your app correctly with resolution independence in mind it should scale well to most if not every resolution and every aspect ratio shouldn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, a lot of work is done to make things resolution independent. But this is not always easy when you want to have some really complex games designed which is heavy on 2D UI. Full screen dialog boxes, Floating UI options etc. are all part of many big game titles developed and ends up being incredibly hard to port across multiple resolutions/aspect ratios. Try looking at some of the user reviews on games - people complain about the smallest of things and randomly throw in a 1 star rating. For a development company, ratings are everything. If your app gets low ratings, it goes unnoticed and thereby killing your chances of earning decent revenues for breaking even - let alone profitability! The cost of development goes up due to higher requirements for development & testing (multiple devices and other fragmentation issues).
Are you referring to certain things like how device GPU's vary and therefore certain texture compression methods in OpenGL for example only work with ATI GPU's and not PowerVR GPU's and vice versa?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Several things here - PVR textures, many open gl calls behave differently on certain devices - for instance the filtering doesnt work as expected on the samsung line of devices because they have their own driver tweaks applied, some devices crash out on a minor opengl warning, while the other devices ignore and continue to run etc. The point here is, you cant see it running on 1 "TYPE" of device which represents a family (same res, performance specs) and assume it will run on the rest. You can release and iteratively respond to user feedback - but you risk getting low ratings and then your game gets buried under.
So? What developer hasn't had to deal with this on virtually every system developed on since the origin of computing? Because Apple managed to create an illusion that this is irrelevant by making a handful of devices with fixed hardware and therefore only having to achieve acceptable performance on those devices? Make the decision to alienate those who don't fit the requirements. Alienating a certain group from support isn't going to be the end of the world. Games are sure to use Tegra 3 and those without Tegra 3 devices might be assed out if the game can't scale down. The world continues...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
[/QUOTE]
When you build games, the objective is to provide the best graphics to the end user with excellent gameplay. Now, if i have to support several hardware configurations i either have a fallback mechanism to have lower quality on lower device (more dev effort, more costs, more testing), or reduce overall quality of graphics all across (bad quality game - low ratings, low revenues), blacklist lower specced devices (killing potential market share - cutting total revenues, risking break even). This becomes extremely critical especially because the games and apps are sold for a measly $1 and every sale is important!
silversx80 said:
Second, games from the big developers may be released on iOS first, and some may be released on Android first. Without references, your statement in invalid. If you're only referring to your company, then specify that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all developers need to follow this. But any large sized company will invariably follow this approach - mainly from the point of view of monetization. Right now, the fact is, Android is yet not a platform where the big bucks come from. Its still unfortunately the damn fruit company. And the sheer fact about the difficulty in have a game run on android is a deterrent to release on android first. Its much easier to finish a game for ios, throw it on the marketplace, and quickly see how the game did. If people like it, and you made decent revenues, then you could expand to android - which would take a lot more time, money, effort.
Fourth, the whole reason big mobile-platform app developer companies exist is to make money. Why alienate more than 50% of the market because of screen resolution? That would be lazy and counter-productive to profits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
true, and thats what i mean by the effort it takes on testing and development makes it a costlier bet! Imagine the capital investment - to house all the phones to test on!
I feel that you're upset over Android making it harder for you to earn a paycheck. I understand the challenges involved, but I think you're not looking at the big picture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I barely find it hard to earn my paycheck Its my company which has to invest the $$$ to get every game out of the door to hit android markets! And just seeing all the chaos involved in shipping an android title, just makes me wonder why google has made this so complicated! If i have to think from the perspective of having my own startup company making android games - it would give me shivers! Not all companies have the lucky streak of Rovio and those few company that i could handcount.
-San
In case you haven't seen it...
http://m.gsmarena.com/jolla_sailfish_os_detailed_demoed_on_video-news-5104.php
Looks really good, anyone wanna work on a port for our lovely gs3?
Hmmm...doesn't seem to have generated any interest yet...
In an interview with the CEO of Jolla, the interviewer asked if he could put this on his GS3, the CEO replied "Enabling Sailfish for a device such as Galaxy S3 is something that any community member could already do."
The SDK is released online here (I believe)
Unfortunately, I have no technical expertise in this area, is anyone else interested?
Could this be better than Jellybean?
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
brew182 said:
In case you haven't seen it...
http://m.gsmarena.com/jolla_sailfish_os_detailed_demoed_on_video-news-5104.php
Looks really good, anyone wanna work on a port for our lovely gs3?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd love to play around with it. The Ambiance feature looks really really cool.
A port form a different OS would only be good for the community However, I have no skills in developing or porting so I can't help except perhaps a small donation to whomever gets it done.
Same here, looks fun but no idea how to do it
I want! Looks awesome!
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
This have to be done! I really want sailfish!
It's awsome .
I's a good OS ! But not for geeks for sure .
It will only turn heads of people who want to use it for daily usage . Not for heavy customizing ,
BTW The gecko / Firefox OS Would be awesome ! as it is an HTML 5 Based OS / or just a web page :cyclops:
Man no Google now voice search. Gapps. Or play store apps.
Its looks nice but right now in this phone world its apple Google and Microsoft. I may want to try out the new Ubuntu os since Google is technically Linux.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Sure I would still prefer Android as my main platform, but I would LOVE to try this out on my GS3! I've always been an OS geek, and love the feel of exploring a new, beautiful, and innovative UI, as well as learning how the underlying platform works and differs from similar setups. It's why I've been playing around with Linux distros and customizing and tweaking them, Solaris, BSD, etc long before Android, despite the fact that I'm no developer. I would LOVE to be able to play around with different OS'es on my GS3, rather than just different Android roms, and Sailfish is one of the most interesting to me. I'll probably end up using Ubuntu more than anything if we get it, but Sailfish is something new and different and it looks really fun. :fingers-crossed:
Can someone link the story of a Jolla dev saying it can be ported easily by the community? If so, let's get this project started, and find out what needs to be done to make this happen, I'm tired of all these different OS'es coming only to the GNex!
With the re-merge of Android and Linux, and addition of the ARM drivers to the mainline, these types of alternative OS'es shouldn't be terribly difficult to port, and between Alien Dalvik and Google writing all their apps in HTML5 for ChromeOS, we should be able to get the basics of what we need from Android running on here, we just need to get the OS running!!
robogoflow said:
I may want to try out the new Ubuntu os since Google is technically Linux.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You realize that Sailfish is also technically Linux, too, right? And you realize that Ubuntu OS won't have Google Now, Gapps, or the Play Store either, right? So why are you naysaying Sailfish but optimistic about Ubuntu? You, sir, make no sense.
Why Sailfish might be a "GOOD" idea too...
The simple fact is I just bought a NOTE 2. First Samsung Device and aside from the S-pen, making a different way of interaction.
We have this to consider. As i have been readng how to 'setup' my NOTE 2 as it's on order and pending... I have come across
threads about how GOOGLE is trying to get 'us' the end users off of SD cards. Other Crap like that... Google has power now,
and they are acting so far like EVERY other US company that gets it. M$, Apple...
It's nice to 'have' something else to look at that is OPEN and someone noted something that is a concern to me. Customizable
look, and features. I myself don't like CRAP on my desktop or my HOME SCREENS... I just don't. When I run Linux, I go with no
icons on my desktop.
So this is so far from what I've seen a bit of a turn off but in the future because the system has to start somewhere... if it's really
open, one would hope such features could be expected. Either 3rd party or by the main OS makers.
There have been enough complaints here by users about devices without SD CARD access. About how Google is trying to cut
this off and how ni Samsung devices Samsung had to 'hack' around it to allow SD card access to apps that were used to getting
it.
I for one for simplicity don't want a stupid OS where all my personal CRAP PHOTOS etc are STUCK in the phone. Just for a simple
reason like that.
Another reason we should all hope for MORE OS's to be released is because lets let the DEVICE makers take something back!
Eventually it only takes one to WISE up... loosing money competing OS to OS or by trying to follow up when they have a good device but for example the ANDROID leader is SAMSUNG. I like that LG picked up WebOS SO they're gonna make Smart TV with it but all it takes is a little pebble to start the Landslide.
THese OEM's we want them to wise up and say... WAIT! There's stuff out there... we make the DEVICE and let them decide what they want on it. Isn't waht we all dream of? Cause then stupid crap like Samsungs Flash counter will be something made obsolete by trend.
Makes will possibly start trying to just concentrate on GOOD HARDWARE just like computers, and then maybe some company will really wise up and the only thing they'll contribute will be a device coming with some kind of AWsome MULTI-BOOT loader system ... Or at least if the devices are open someone can make one... haha.
Also about the Ubunty on mobiles thing... well, it's an interesting idea but seems like they are still not planning to get anywhere with it for a whole year? I wonder why...
Sailfish is using the WHOLE Linux... it's the same thing, but with a UI set for imbedded and small devices. SO all that needs to be done in the future is a step up to a whole desktop for bigger screen devices or if you dock your device to a large screen... so in other words...
Sailfish could have the same potential as Ubuntu...
I have personally never used Ubuntu and hope that with the option of sailfish what we may see is other Linux projects joining the trend. I mean really... it's all OPEN source. What actually bugs me the most as an end users is also the same problem that I see with some Linux projects.
Everyone reinventing the WHEEL trying to make the best this and taht and this is the real reason in some instances it's taking longer to do something that is lying around and could be modified and it's true, I don't speak with any experience in coding or programming but I think some who do know what is said is a bit true in some instances just like in some a total rewrite may be in order.
but if it's OPEN, then the parts are there.
So either way... it'll be good to see SAILFISH and other things. I'm sorry, but the whole TIZEN thing doesn't appeal to me pesonally. If it had more underlying structure other than the HTML 5, cause frankly, I am not real happy about every little thing on my system always
being connected to the internet in some way... though yes, I realize HTML 5 is just a way to create graphics but, remember these are companies we're dealing with here and they always have their own agenda.
Anyway... I'd like to see Sailfish vs Windoz OS, cause Micro$haft has not changed their ways and I don't expect to see them do any different than they have and their system will be similarly locked in ways but differently or in differently places as much as Apple's.
Android is open now but Google is acting weird and some competition and innovation can keep it open longer...
So, I'd love to see Salifsish fly or is that Swim... and of course they need to start somewhere and 90% of they users will be people who just want it to 'work' and that's where they need to go first. Us power users, etc in this forum, we're like the 10% or less now. Before
we were the people buying smartphones but when smartphones are now what the average user is getting their hands on?
Forget it... you bettre make something that they goo OOOH perty, and it's simple. OR you will be lost in the market. I also recall that
Sailfish is coming out here in the Asian market if I read taht right a couple month ago. I am an expat living in CHINA and believe me.
They want it simple and pretty, anything else... and it will fail. But once it hits this market, where a lot of stuff for Android is being made now
if it is accepted... then it will start having things made for it and if it can run Android apps, it's a true plus...
Depending on what hardware it comes out on, if it's able to use the simple apps I use in Android, it may be my next device to replace my daily users...
Obviously the NOTE 2 is going to be my KIND device and isn't exactly for 'daily' use in the way that I use my devices.
Still, the more the merrier and frankly, a lot of OEM's will want to get off of being branded as ANDROID device makers or whatever if they want to sell.
Also it's all good that ANDY is merging back with main kernel, but so far... there is still NO REAL work you can do with Android despite this yet. I do mean, such as prepare a very good OFFICE DOCUMENT, Power Point presentation and so on that you would on a computer. Though I hear the Open Office to Android project is going... so one can but wait and hope.
I would love to try this out on my LG optimus 2x SU660!
brew182 said:
In case you haven't seen it...
m.gsmarena.com/jolla_sailfish_os_detailed_demoed_on_video-news-5104.php
Looks really good, anyone wanna work on a port for our lovely gs3?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow. should try
I would love to see this OS running on my S3.
very cool... watch the hands on video. Note that they say that android apps will be ported over for the sailfish os, SO i would imagine that even if gapps are blocked etc. that they would likely work for the most part, or could be made to work ... lol :highfive:
Im definitely interested in anything that has quality (obviously this does!) ... and represents a new form of competition
I think this is pretty damn awesome. The hands on videos on YouTube look great, especially the ambiance thing.
Honestly, the phone looks good too but i would rather keep the beast hardware in my S3 and maybe get an S4, but having this OS on it would be awesome.
If someone had a way to dual boot Sailfish and Android, that would be epic.
Sure, it isnt completely and utterly customizable. But Sailfish seems very natural to use and at the same time you can still tap into all the Android apps!
Simple OS + Android apps.. what's not to like?
mandeep1 said:
I's a good OS ! But not for geeks for sure .
It will only turn heads of people who want to use it for daily usage . Not for heavy customizing ,
BTW The gecko / Firefox OS Would be awesome ! as it is an HTML 5 Based OS / or just a web page :cyclops:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is perfect for geeks! Lots of stuff to play with, mod and hack + true multi tasking
robogoflow said:
Man no Google now voice search. Gapps. Or play store apps.
Its looks nice but right now in this phone world its apple Google and Microsoft. I may want to try out the new Ubuntu os since Google is technically Linux.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dat comment. You must be somekind of an expert
/sarcasm
IOS 7 looks like Jolla.
Hi all developers,
We released our EvolutionUI research project as open source. In this project we are experimenting with integrating gamificiation (experience points, achievements, etc) into Android. This should make the phone easier to use and a lot more fun.
Feel free to have a look at the open source project and contribute to make it even better!
https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/EvolutionUI
Get the full story on Developer World.
/Pál Szász
SW developer at Sony
Hi
pal.szasz said:
Hi all developers,
We released our EvolutionUI research project as open source. In this project we are experimenting with integrating gamificiation (experience points, achievements, etc) into Android. This should make the phone easier to use and a lot more fun.
Feel free to have a look at the open source project and contribute to make it even better!
https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/EvolutionUI
Get the full story on Developer World.
/Pál Szász
SW developer at Sony
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting! A very good initiative how can I put the file in my rom?
I actually like the idea a lot. Brings simple 'Fun' to the Android system. For some users it won't be though because there have been times where myself just wanted to dive into my Brand New Android device when I received it. However once I get used to it I get somewhat bored?! Lol, I'm a phone whore so that's definitely why. This might actually help me not want to move on to the 'Next Best Thing' once I get used to my current device.
I like it!:good:
Sound great....
i love the idea!!
Great idea, I actually think this is a great concept. Some users I've noticed find it white hard to get used to Android phones.
With this, they can explore and find out more things about their device yet figure out more about what they can do on it.
So great concept, I'll take a peek at the source
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Marília de Oliveira said:
Interesting! A very good initiative how can I put the file in my rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are making/building your own ROM, then I guess you need to include the two projects into our repo and create Android.mk files for them.
If you just want to install it on your already flashed phone, there are precompiled binaries here: https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/EvolutionUI/releases
In each case note that this is not a finished product
This reminds me of app Android achievements
Used a lot then lost after factory reset and got lazy enough to not install it
Press thanks :good: if I've helped :highfive:
great job,, nice sound quality on sony
Good stuff! I'm trying to convince family to ditch iPhones since they're getting worse and worse on build quality under Mr. Cook. Their only real concern is learning a new phone. This would be extremely useful!
This has been already been done in form of an app. Been available for some time too!
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pixelmark.phonechievements
Awesome work
Currently you can get achievements by :
1) Add 5 Shortcuts to Home Screen (Told by OP).
2) Open any app 5 times (Told by OP).
3) Add 5 Widgets to Home Screen (Discovered by me).
4) Add 10 Apps to Home Screen (Discovered by me).
pal.szasz said:
If you are making/building your own ROM, then I guess you need to include the two projects into our repo and create Android.mk files for them.
If you just want to install it on your already flashed phone, there are precompiled binaries here: https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/EvolutionUI/releases
In each case note that this is not a finished product
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks !
Thanks for the feedback, both for the positive and the negative!
Btw, you should be able to adjust other applications to work with achievements. The launcher is just an example.
Any application can publish it's own set of features and achievements. I started to write some more detailed explanation, but it's not finished yet: https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/EvolutionUI/wiki
However you can always look at the launcher patches: https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/an...mmit/71460e8441066b3dfc1a796b05f196d7edab8ba8
honestly, this is a bad idea. let me explain why.
the main idea behind this concept is to make it easier to the user to get familiar with the user interface. The user is slowly understanding the "game mechanics" of one "level" (i. e. reduced interface) and once he mastered them, he's ready for the next level. This process repeats until the user has all the skills needed to use the phone fully.
Ideally, the user should have full access to all functionality. The user interface should be polished and user friendly enough that any user doesn't experience any steep hills on the learning curve.
like someone said, Everything Should Be Made as Simple as Possible, But Not Simpler.
The average user has changed since the first smartphone. Back then, the idea of interact with a machine was very new. Arguably nowadays people are being brought up surrounded by technology, making it easier for them to understand how a computational device work.
Hence the achievements system is purely a steep hill that every single user has to do, even an experienced user. More computation machines are owned by the average user: tablet, phone, watches. What I fear is that the user has to go through a little game every time he has a new device. An idea to be successful has to be widely implemented, and I don't see this happening.
One could argue that every device may have a different interface and new "skills" have to be learned in order to fully use the device. True, but where the problem really lies is within inconsistency across multiple devices.
Consistency across multiple devices. This is what the aim of a good designer should be. As mentioned, this interface should be clean and intuitive. It's not easy, Microsoft is trying to do it and even with all the skilled people and resources available they ain't quite there yet.
With what it is available at the moment, a AOSP look with a theme engine (and an advanced menu unlocked it via a semi hidden command, like tapping multiple times the build number to get to Dev options) is a very very good concept.
Sony is almost doing so with the recent devices and I'm really happy about their decision. Continue down this way you guys. This surely was a fun little project to do, hopefully it has taught you something on the way.
p. s.
I love Android and its ability to change interface when I feel like it. But once I found an interface I'm happy about, I'm sticking with it between flashing and phones. The interface is device agnostic. This idea is shared among my friends and personally it is shared across xda as well. Hopefully this could serve as a proff of the above.
pps
I really like the professionality of the latest Sony interfaces, it doesn't look like it was designed for teens. Thank you!
I hope I have expressed my ideas in a clear way without offending anyone. I have open to further discussion on this topic.
hrockh said:
honestly, this is a bad idea. let me explain why.
the main idea behind this concept is to make it easier to the user to get familiar with the user interface. The user is slowly understanding the "game mechanics" of one "level" (i. e. reduced interface) and once he mastered them, he's ready for the next level. This process repeats until the user has all the skills needed to use the phone fully.
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That's only one of the main ideas. Another important idea is to make it fun, to make a positive feedback to the user. I understand that some users don't need, but some do, some like an extra little bit of challenge, or simply a reward. For example my parents were very happy when they managed to find out how to merge two word documents, and they were eager to tell everybody
hrockh said:
Ideally, the user should have full access to all functionality. The user interface should be polished and user friendly enough that any user doesn't experience any steep hills on the learning curve.
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I don't think this is possible. There is no way to make a user interface, which is easy to use both for beginner users and contains all the features required for advanced users. You mention the hidden developer options as an example. For me that's a good example why it doesn't work: it took me some time to find out what happened with the developer menu. The same with the offline map support in google maps. They removed the feature from the menu (to make it easier to use for the beginner users), and they added it as a hidden feature (type "ok maps" in the search?!). I also used an iPhone for 2 weeks, but didn't liked. And I liked the UI of the old UIQ phones. I also think the new trend of using more hidden gestures is also confusing for some users (especially the new swipe-sideways-to-delete-but-sometimes-to-show-more-options thingy).
Btw, we thought about advanced users, they can switch profile and disable the achievement system. Or switch profile only, but keep the achievement notifications just for fun. In many comments I saw people look at this as something they HAVE TO do. That's not the case. The point is to track what they are doing, and enable more and more. And of course there are not and there will never be microtransactions involved.
hrockh said:
Hence the achievements system is purely a steep hill that every single user has to do, even an experienced user.
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Like I mentioned before, this is not something the user HAS TO do. You can skip it by changing profiles.
hrockh said:
What I fear is that the user has to go through a little game every time he has a new device.
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We actually thought about this as well (but was not mentioned in the article for time/size reason)
We actually think this can help the user to switch to a different phone even if he used a smartphone already. Smartphones have new features compared to the previous one, so there is always something new to learn. The idea is the following:
* if switching from a phone which already supported EvolutionUI, we can copy the state (experiences, features, achievements obtained) and continue from the same point. This is rather easy to do, we already store this information locally (obviously, in case the user reboots the phone), so the only thing we need to do is transfer it to another device (probably via a cloud service). (NOTE: this is still in the concept phase, not implemented yet).
* if switching from a phone which did not support EvolutionUI, we can have a small builtin database, which maps the previous phone to an achievement state. For example if the previous user had an iPhone, we can set the medium profile instead of the beginner profile. It would be possible to even have customized profiles for certain phones (i.e. a small xml file describing all the features which needs to be enabled by start, since it was available in the previous phone)
hrockh said:
Consistency across multiple devices. This is what the aim of a good designer should be. As mentioned, this interface should be clean and intuitive. It's not easy, Microsoft is trying to do it and even with all the skilled people and resources available they ain't quite there yet.
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NOTE: the following is just my personal opinion:
Of course we cannot guarantee complete consistency, since we control the Sony phones only. But to be honest, I don't think consistency is that important: imagine, if all android phones would look and behave like the iPhone. Of course it would be nice for many users, they could switch to android easily. But what should those users who don't like the iPhone UI do? They could not buy any phone. And I also want to mention again, that IMHO there is no such thing as perfect UI. UIs evolved a lot, but it's still a matter a fashion: a couple of years ago everybody liked the real-life-looking apps on the iPhone. Now they like the new modern, simplified look. It's always changing, and just like with fashion, not everybody has the same taste.
hrockh said:
I hope I have expressed my ideas in a clear way without offending anyone. I have open to further discussion on this topic.
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Thank you, and I appreciate it!