Database Users

Newbie: It all got so complicated, so quickly

If you'd be so kind, just to clarify the following.
I've got an Orbit II, with Copilot. Yes it does feel as if one is part of a club, but there's the topset and the thick kids... I'm the latter.
As I understand it, the Hard SPL unlocks the phone, from it being tied to a mobile network, right?
The O2 II isn't locked so then I don't need it, yes?
Therefore, I can either install all the tweaks and tips thus keeping Copilot, or put another ROM, (is this a type of disk image?), with all the tweaks and tips built in, on it.
In which case I'd lose CoPilot, for I'd have written over the device and voided the warranty, to boot, right?
What actually is the difference between a ROM and all the 'tweaks and tips'.
Is it because if you need to Hard SPL (ie unlock a phone from the network), then you don't have any built in functions left, so you couldn't install the Tweaks and Tips, which would in effect bring all the same advantages.
Look, I know Bebe has managed to do a version of WM6.1 which features threaded SMS and everthing, but I'm still not quite with it, I'm afraid.
The wiki entry for "What is a Hard SPL", just says it's one way of not trashing your phone. Not trashing your phone before you attempt what though?
For I've seen mention of the SIM/CID unlocker as if it's a separate entity, indicating they are two distinct things, created for two different tasks.
I like the idea of the phone looking funkier and working better (God knows what the AMMD is for the Video, but I know there are issues with the video, so having that sounds like a good idea as well. Right?)
Whatever it all is, it sounds like it's been a mammoth job/labour of love and has involved the purchase of two new Polaris phones, but beyond that, I'm all at sea.
(Dons bullet proof vest and climbs into protective Pope Mobile)

I think the fact you are asking all these questions juxtaposes that you should not flash your ROM. I myself am in your class and just look on with admiration. With that said, there are many things that you can do to your phone to "spice" things up. I have bought a couple of programs, Astronavigator II, (tells you what the sky at night is above you, My Girlfriend loves it), Fun contact, much more finger friendly than wm6. I also have PZP program. It automatically sets my phone to do things at certain times of the day, i.e at night it switches off, emails and phone calls then do not wake me and GF up, much to her relief! So there you have it, oh btw I have tomtom as have the TC.
The phone works quickly, efficiently and never have to soft reset. 5 years of using WM devices, I have found that idiots like me should just live and let be and use the phone as it is.
This should anser none and all of your questions
Kind Regards,
Will

unfortunately you have discovered HTC
Hey,
I hear ya. I am fat boy too. lol
I can't keep up and these forums use a form o speak, and implications that are not clear. I have no idea of why one of the cubes is called a bunch of letters for instance. unfortunately, we want our phones up to date, and the fastest they can be. But it is not that simple. I agree, I am lost on the spl thing and the sim, but then ??? it is not that clear to me.
Here is how I understand it. It may not be right, but it is an analogy that seems to work. A soft reset is reboot, a hard reset in a wipe/reinstall. As I understand it, the rom is the basic operating system, meaning when you hard reset, that is what loads into memory. Once it is loaded, it can be soft reset ie rebooted without harm. The rom is kept on the device, so when you hard reset, it can reload/reinstall itself without needing to be connected to anything. Disk Image? I guess. If your original rom, from the manufacturer installs copilot with a hard reset, then you will keep copilot. When they cook a rom, they change those installation files permanently. They adjust things, and remove things. they alter hardware drivers per say ie the radio patches you get. If Copilot is not in the cooked rom, then you would lose Copilot. You would need to buy it or download it and install it yourselft. You would have to use a restore disc, hooked to a computer and mobile center, to overwrite a cooked rom back to the original rom in this cases wm6. ROMS are much more of a big deal, as there are bugs and some things don't work as expected. They are faster tho, imho. Tips and tweaks are just that, certain replacements and other alterations. I woul think most tweaks I have seen generally do stay with the device thru soft resets, some don't if you have to hard reset. I keep my tweaks and settings/programs on the storage card incase I have to hard reset. Hope that helps, it may not be correct, but it works for me as a basic understanding level. There is a way to chose what you install as the rom (ie operating system permanently on the phone for hard resets), and i think the term they use is the kitchen. Using the kitchen, you chose this piece of a rom, and that one, etc....all that goes to the permanent part where a hard reset tell it what to read and install. I am not too clear on that one myself. I find using a kitchen fightening and wrought with risk at bricking.
Will has summed it up pretty well.
We buy these phones for what they can do, and they are just not supported by manufacturing like they should be. Our expectations are flavored by the continual upgrades from things like MS and windows upgrades fixing and patching things. I have had two pda (one previous phone). Either manufacturer was the same, limited upgrades and basically no further development on the devices.
It was a harrowing experience to upgrade my phone/pda to wm6 out of fear of bricking it. My phone came with wm2003. Bricking if you don't know, is leaving your device in an usable state...it is caught in limbo somewhere, and will not work.
Advice, wait a while, keep reading. Since things are hard to understand, keep reading and don't be in a hurry. Eventually someone will ask a question, in one forum or another, that inadvertanly answers one of yours. Check out the hacking forums, nice tweaks in there. And yes, they kinda of leave out steps. Keep Pocket Controller, it lets you tweak the registry, and see your device on your desktop. Even MS was impressed, troubleshooting a bluetooth issue. MS loved they could control the pda themselves using remote desktop. MS sent the name of that progie up the chain of command. They loved it. You can screen shot and all sorts of things. It come in handy trying to explain things. Once you feel you can risk losing the phone/device, then consider upgrading to new rom and try some of the tricks/tweaks. I know I don't want to waste 700.00 or more dollars to brick something. I think most of the time, they can get the bricked phone back, but not 100% certain of that. I study the reset and etc procedures and print them out, before I muck with the rom. I consider what I do to the phone very carefully. I was so scared I would ruin my phone.
And the other thing i say, is if you tell people you are a noob at this stuff and have a hard time understanding, they generally won't flame you too hard. Really. Just explain yourself, and give your disclaimer, and they won't be too hard on you. As you have seen, they may not fully explain things as clearly as you like, due think that is just the nature of the people and the way they think, not a personal attack or lack of anything, but they won't be rude.
As you said, this forum is run by the topset, and we are thick ones. They do astounding work and some of us just look up at them and admire. But they will help you. Keep reading, and keep trying to understand, it gets better with time. And don't be in hurry either. I see two post already of people bricking their devices already. And one guy seriously bricked his to the point of no return it seems.

ukdutypaid said:
Therefore, I can either install all the tweaks and tips thus keeping Copilot, or put another ROM, (is this a type of disk image?), with all the tweaks and tips built in, on it.
In which case I'd lose CoPilot, for I'd have written over the device and voided the warranty, to boot, right?
For I've seen mention of the SIM/CID unlocker as if it's a separate entity, indicating they are two distinct things, created for two different tasks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I understand it (and I've loaded HardSPL + a modified ROM on my Polaris), the SIM/CID unlocker is for those devices that were purchased from a telco and therefore locked to that company (pernicious behaviour, btw, but they offer low purchase prices to tie customers in). If your device was unlocked at purchase, then this issue doesn't bother you.
The HardSPL load is designed to prevent you bricking your device with a crook modified ROM - this obviously pre-supposes that you will load modified ROM's. If you want to do this (ie. try modified ROM's), then loading HardSPL 1st is a no-brainer.
Why would you want to load a modified ROM ? The short answer is that the marketing depts of the manufacturers load the devices with all sorts of fluffy software crap. They do this in the released ROM. So to remove this junk - and have the device fast, responsive and with enough room left to do what you want - the gurus here modify these ROM's. [Of course, some people like the fluff]. The manufacturers also occasionally release ROM upgrades, but development is done mostly in forums like this.
CoPilot 7 ? Yes, flashing a new ROM will kill this, because the DeviceID changes when a new ROM is loaded. But if you visit the CoPilot website before loading a new ROM, you can deactivate your current license and then reactivate it after installing on a "new" device. In fact, CoPilot is one of the few commercial apps to cater for ROM upgrades with honour. CoPilot doesn't care how many devices you install on, just that only one at a time is actually capable of running.

Here are your acronyms to understand what they are doing and talking about. This may not be right, but alot of this came from the Hermes. It seems someone was looking to run linux on his hermes i think. I am still kind of digesting this information now. Remember I told you look around?
Here are your definitions to help you understand.
AKU - Adaptation Kit Update: they usually patch up existing bugs and enable several new features. Each newly released AKU pack retains fixes found in previous versions of AKU
CID lock (aka vendor lock): put on your device by the manufacturer to prevent installation of a ROM not released by them. CID is a vender lock, the post above talks about that. It is placed on you phone to deliberately prevent you from changing the rom. It is vender specific it seems. I assume the Super CID tells the device to ignore that lock or overwrite the vender lock all together, or it might just tell it to ignore the error code. That is what I am seeing. This seems basically related to full administrator priviledges account for the device. it seems the CID was located on a secure area on the radio. People had bad flashing to the radio upgrade and corrupted their CiD essentially bricking some of their phones.
RIL - Radio Interface Layer.
RUU - ROM Upgrade Utility: Its the s/w used on your PC to do a ROM upgrade for your PPC. I assume this can be the default utlity or a kitchen program. The default you can find pictures of, it is generic and just tell you are flashing. The kitchen program, i canceled once, had options to choose.
IPL - Initial Program Loader: Its the bootloader for PPC. It boots up SPL. Bootloader. Basic operations.
SPL - Secondary Program Loader: By inferenece only? Hard SPL then stands for a forced control over the secondary Program layer. You can make it load something else when it boots. It seems the newer factory SLP would want to reference the CID or only properly signed files, thus limiting what you could actually do with your phones.
WWE Edition - World Wide English Edition
XIP - Execute-in-Place
It seems while trying to unlock the Hermes, they were using a radio upgrade and somehow got this Super CID. See above about CID. So it seems there was a reverse engineer done with a legitmate unlocker program. This unlocker program was installing certifcates and changing the device to a lower bootloader it seems. That bootloader ignored the CID or converted it to full priviledges. they also figured out, some bad flashing can be undone....the CID was stored in a secure area on the radio. A bad radio flash corrupted part of the CID. Once they converted to a different bootloader, they could reflash radios...thus unbrick some phones. They have replaced the bootloader with this Hard SLP. The new SLP converts or tells the phone to ignore the CID when upgrading a ROM or other things. It appears HSPL v1.13 also keeps track of bad blocks of memory. That version also reflashes bad blocks or corrupted files with fresh versions as well. It also respecs completely bad blocks, i am thinking that means, the os is not allowed to write there. The you can reflash anything to the device. Or so it seems. But again, depending on how bad you muck up your phone, some things are not repairable.
That is what I am seeing right now. Still reading. It is all out there. Just google the terms above, and slowly you will find the threads and start piecing it together.
Seems this Hard SLP is important for ROM ugrades. Still reading about it. I am post like 500, out of 1000, and trying to keep track of it is difficult. Lots of interjections of what people did wrong. Very confusing.
I did tell you read, read read, and you will find the answers to your questions, it just takes awhile and it hard to understand becuase of the lingo.

v nice. u guys need to read som basic stuffs. it will help u, & u don't have to worry about u,r phone. u can upgrade, u can change things with full confidence. xda-developers have wiki pages, i think it will help much. keep readingggggggg. soru 4 my english

You won't lose your copilot if you use the original HTC ROM....I put the original HTC ROM (which is much better than the O2 ROM)...added a few standard registry tweaks..runs NICE..reinstalled Copilot7 (from the 2577 folder on the SD card) reactivated it..(did not need to deactivate it) and everything is fine. If you need to got back to the original ROM for whatever reason...reflash it and then flash with originalSPL file.
You can reactivate copilot as many times as you like (the only thing I do before reflashing...mor as a precautionary measure...is backup the SD card)
If you use a cooked ROM ..then I think you have to deactivate Copilot and reactivate it on the new install.....but I'm sure the experts will know better.

pistonripper said:
If you use a cooked ROM ..then I think you have to deactivate Copilot and reactivate it on the new install.....but I'm sure the experts will know better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed - I've had to do that a number of times, from both modified ROM changes and device changes, but it's easy and painless.

Thanks for the indulgence...
People, I'd like to thank you for taking the time and trouble to provide your very useful responses. One does read of course and things like lego bricks begin to click into place. I don't even have a car, so quite why I'm so obsessed with CoPilot, I don't know. Okay I giggle when listening to one of the ladies (through headphones), on the bus, but other than that.. lol.
I didn't know you could actually download CoPilot from the site though, I'll check that out. I've 'funked it up' a bit using the HTC Home cab and Slideunlock. Tempted to play with one of the Cube .cabs...(The one it comes with is pretty rubbish if you can't change what the cubes link to and the icons)
Yes, Yes I'll search for the original O2 rom, before I play anymore...
The actual HTC rom, sounds like a safe bet though, cos then you get the proper funky screen..
Don't want to clutter (anywhere actually) the hard core threads with stupido questions. I'll look, I'll read, I'll learn...
As one of you has said, these things aren't toys (lol) and I don't want to be left looking at a $700 £350 quid (non contract Orbit), that I can't use...
I think Bebe wm6.1 is going to stay undownloaded for the time being!
I'll leave the topset, to carry on.. Wouldn't mind getting rid of the "Streaming Media", program mind. Errr, it does/streams what exactly, anything at all?

Completely lost trying to root UK Vodafone HTC Magic

Hi all,
Firstly apologies for the long post, and thanks for all the info that is up here... however I have managed to get quite lost. I'll try to take you though the whole story as much as I understand it, but I woke up this morning and decided (after 8 months) to finally root my android.
That was 8am, it is now midnight, and I've had sandwiches while working at it, all day. It has been in various stages of bricked, and I think I might have just sent it back that way - should not be playing with it when tired.
Things I have
1 x UK Vodafone HTC Magic, doing return plus power = 32B, HBOOT-1.33.0009 (another story here).
1x 16GB SD-HC card
1x 1gb Card
1x cheap nokia I can use as a reader for the 1gig card, but it can't handle SD-HC
Anyway I started off with the 1 click root idea, which obviously doesn't work these days, so followed the next link, then the next, finding I need to do the 'goldcard' method.
theunlockr.com/2009/08/14/how-to-root-your-mytouch-3g/comment-page-3/
Anyway I'm not sure where all the time has gone (16 hours now), but I have learnt what an SPL was, flashed mine to an ‘imperfect’ one, managed to flash it to deteethed google, then cyanogen on top, but it would never boot, and just hangs saying HTC Magic, then managed to flash it using 'myhero' which gave me a Hero like phone.
However I now seem to have messed it up again as I'm determined to do the cyanogen mod - I really want to be able to tether, and lots of other bits and pieces.
The state at the moment therefore is I have it all working with fastboot, and can easily get the Amon_RA recovery image going, but the cm_recovery one makes it hang and do nothing. If I try and replace the recovery section using fastboot it tells me it has failed (I forget the exact message).
I can therefore upgrade things using the Amon_RA backup, but as I said things don't seem to entirely work, and at the moment my phone is hanging (I think as I'm tired I've overwritten my backup). I'm also not sure if this goldcard method is working – I asked a question in the thread and it seems that it might not be.
I guess I'm just looking for a few pointers, after 16 hours sat here I'm generally pretty frustrated and totally lost - there is a lot of information, but there are so many permutations of hardware, and a lot of the information is now out of date. Trying to take everything in as well as deal with a specific problem may actually be beyond me  Which is something I hate- being the newbie needing help with a potentially simple problem (though I have had a good go at it).
I'm really not sure what stage the phone is at, have I rooted it? After all I can use the myhero rom, but on the other hand I can't do what I want to do, so therefore is there a problem? Exactly which step makes it ‘rooted?’ as every guide is obviously a chain of events to make it in to something else. I'm honestly not sure, but it isn't a fun feeling – I’m stressed and at the momentI have no phone just a brick that I can fastboot to recovery, and a bunch of backups as soon as I get it working again.
I really had no idea it would be this difficult, and am a big angry at Google/HTC for making it so - it is easier to get Hackintosh working than this! I’ve also managed to do hundreds of other similar things without any problem – Xbox Media Center (including soldering), and a few more spring to mind, all to use the hardware I already own! My hardware!
Anyway advice and pointers are appreciated, as although I've learnt a lot today, I'm still blundering about, and it is a matter of time until I cause serious damage in my attempts to make it better, al alternatively just throw in the towel, but then I don’t think I can go back as I have a horrible feeling that the restore I did didn’t work.
Again anything you can offer is appreciated, and if you need more detail, I’ll do what I can!
Anthony

Also just to add I've tried searching, which is partially how I've got myself in to this mess - solve one problem but make another!
Also I do have my APN settings, so when I get it installed, I can get my google account workign with it - I think i've had to do this about 6 times now! So if there is a way to get it in to 'myhero' which I think I can do again, and download an apk, then I should be able to do that.
Ant

There is a lot of information and everyone is recommended to do their research before rooting the phone.
That being said, it sounds like your phone is rooted if you can boot into recovery and load up a sense ROM. It'd been much easier to follow cyanogen's wiki instructions for non T-mobile 32B Magics. I also have a vodafone Magic and I rooted my phone successfully using the method.
Not having used the goldcard method, I don't exactly know where it went wrong. Have you done full wipes before applying a zip file? Stuff like that which might be easily overlooked?

Yeha I've been wiping it all before flashing, so that isn't the problem.
I also did as much reading as I could before starting (and watching the youtube guides before doing anything), but I guess a lot of the problems were unexpected (aren't they always?), for example I only found out half way through that I would need to flash the SPL, and it took me 40 minutes to figure out what SPL was, and what it did, then another 40 to work out how I was going to do it, then 40 to do so.
I have been following guides though - for the cyanogen one I get all the way down to flashing it with the detoothed google build, then cyanogen (obviously wiping before doing these). All the steps appear successful but then it doesn't boot.
The phone is also a rather strange one, a vodafone branded one that says 32B, but I'm sure it has more RAM.
Currently trying 'method 2' from here
android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Magic_Rooting
to see if that works, but I'm not optimistic.

Yup 15 minutes laters same problem - it hangs on HTC magic screen, which is exactly what it does when I go for the Cyanogen one.
I'll goign to try and google for other roms, see if any of them work sucessfully (and might provide a bridghe to what I want to have.
Again however anybody knows good guides, sites or anythign else let me know.
As I said a big problem before is I'm reliant heavily on google, and a lot of the informaion out there is useless, as it is out of date in a big way. Also I don't know anyoen else who has doen this, so recommendations ofmethods/roms are dependent on my reading, not wword of mouth (which is generally better).

Ok I've tried the method 2, defiantely no sucess, went back to the myhero (which performs awfully, so much lag!), and have now tried flaskrec.apk on there.
It does not backup, but then bypassing that step, it gives me the error 'Flash failed'.
Really stuck now, and no idea what to try, any suggestions at all would be helpful. I'm almost at the stage of wishing I'd got an iphone :-(

Real TRUE Brick this time

[PROBLEM SOLVED]
Ive been flashing back and forth to different builds trying which is better. I made sure I took the cautions not to flash builds that would brick my phone. There were 4 times that I soft bricked my phone but I was able to revive it. However, my little game has come to an end with this last one. The fault was this guide: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=817186.
Little did I know, by doing a repartition and not loading anything to the NAND resulted in the bootloader not being installed. (Devices like this should have a ROM programmed to recover from these errors, think Gigabyte) Upon reset, the phone went out and didn't turn back on. ODIN reports success. Now the phone cannot turn back on, no matter what battery pull method I use, I get nothing on the screen. So much for fail-safe protocols Samsung has implemented, if there are even any. Poorly engineered!
EDIT:Thanks for all your suggestions guys. So yes this phone was definitely bricked beyond any software repair. I was going to JTAG it but I figured there MUST to be some hardware bootloader implemented. I went ahead and did the USB JIG and surprise, it booted from the hardware bootloader. I used ODIN to flash JFD and it works now. So my guess is samsung did implement a fail safe, which is the USB trick and forces the phone to boot from hardware. If that is true, this phone is brick proof, provided that all electronics still work.
EDIT 2: I am wrong about the bootloader being hardware. Some say it is flashable, so it is possible you can get a real TRUE brick and must need JTAG to revive it. Fortunately for me, I was able to use the USB JIG method to get it back up and running. Too bad, a new phone would've been nice.

Not poorly engineered, just poorly made user input.

Yes true, but samsung should have taken into account accidents like this will happen then they dont have control over who administers their update. People have bricked their phones by doing the factory update. When I design systems like these, I always make sure there is a fail safe backup that the user cannot modify. I am sure samsung has one and maybe they just dont let us access it.

I sometimes encounter the same error message but I never repartition. Luckily, i never clicked on it in Odin.

But you have to realize that most of those bricks are because people modified their phones from factory (ie. Voodoo and OCLF). Odin, a program used by internal Samsung engineers, was never meant for the public and shouldn't be used unless you know how to use it.
I agree, there should be an absolute fail safe if worse comes to worse, but the point I am making here is Samsung isn't wrong in this case.

When you violate warranties and experiment you tacitly accept responsibility for your actions. To not do so is not an act of rebellious ire...it is an act of denial.
Manufacturers do not, nor can not prepare for all scenarios because the possible number of scenario's to cover are legion. I don't see it as realistic especially for them to prepare for brick scenario's created by using a leaked internal engineering tool that the community has figured out largely through trial and error either. OTA and Mini Kies bricks they are responsible for, for obvious reasons, and Samsung and T-Mobile have taken responsibility for these scenarios because they are ones of their making.
XDA is not a place where people file warranty complaints (though some do complain). It is a place where people experiment, hack, and customize smartphones. Though some manufacturers do a better job than others at getting out of our way here (Samsung hasn't done so bad here relative to say Motorola), I don't think any of them particularly "care" about such community efforts in any meaningful sense. And why should they?
By modifying our devices aren't we quite clearly saying we're taking matters into our own hands? You have to balance your strong desire to tinker with the reality of where responsibilities lie.
These phones are some of the most difficult Android phones to brick. Anecdotally and statistically shown to be. Not impossible of course, but quite difficult. I feel for your bad experience but at least consider shouldering some of the blame.

Thank god i am too scared to use odin. The deepest i go is clockwork recovery, but good luck with your paperweight.
Too bad the SGS is so light, it wouldnt make a good paperweight, or even a brick.
but seriously, the warranty is there to protect users which this happens to, assuming it wasnt voided by hacking the phone. Are you asking samsung to take into account that you would hack the phone and provide a way back after you have a bad hack and probably make themselves liable by providing that way back in case it does not work properly?

I want to be clear that I am not blaming samsung for this but I thought samsung could have done a better job. Ill admit, this phone was the first phone that impressed me in years and as an engineer, I am hardly ever impressed; other engineers will get my point. I wish they had some soft of fail safe mechanism. For us who like to tweak things, I get we get what we deserve. But what about those who dont like to tweak and still brick their phones? i.e. those who use Kies Mini and still brick. I still have warranty on the phone and I'll try to take it up with Tmobile, hope they don know much about flashing. BTW, I tried using the other program but no go. All the drivers were installed, rebooted computer...nothing. I think it is because I have W7 64 and not 32?

Have you tried the jig method of getting into dl mode?

engineer14 said:
Thank god i am too scared to use odin. The deepest i go is clockwork recovery, but good luck with your paperweight.
Too bad the SGS is so light, it wouldnt make a good paperweight, or even a brick.
but seriously, the warranty is there to protect users which this happens to, assuming it wasnt voided by hacking the phone. Are you asking samsung to take into account that you would hack the phone and provide a way back after you have a bad hack and probably make themselves liable by providing that way back in case it does not work properly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep on flashing, and eventually Odin will probably save your butt
Don't be scared of it, it works great. And it is safe to use.
========================================
I'm really sorry about your phone man, I didn't know that you had to NAND before re-partition, thank god I've never checked that but I might have in the future had you not shared this with us, so thanks a lot!
I guess your loss is everyone elses gain

No I havent tried the Jig method. The thread says that I need to have at least the samsung screen, so some kind of activity. This phone is just off, nothing comes on, no buttons, no screen...just dead. I think when I followed that guide, it told be to repartition and then reboot with the "PDA" field empty. So the phone rebooted when it finished formatting without installing anything. Now the NAND is at a "blank" state and I do not have any bootloader on there. Anyone know of a method to install a bootloader without the phone turning on?

I might be a little too far out of my element here but I think I found a guide to remove the sdcard and format it via pc one time when I was in a similar situation. I am at work currently and I also cannot remember if I have the link saved.

Maybe some phone expert in your city may help you to install the bootlaoder. I think it's called jtagging, I'm not sure though.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

trdexalbee said:
I want to be clear that I am not blaming samsung for this but I thought samsung could have done a better job. Ill admit, this phone was the first phone that impressed me in years and as an engineer, I am hardly ever impressed; other engineers will get my point. I wish they had some soft of fail safe mechanism. For us who like to tweak things, I get we get what we deserve. But what about those who dont like to tweak and still brick their phones? i.e. those who use Kies Mini and still brick. I still have warranty on the phone and I'll try to take it up with Tmobile, hope they don know much about flashing. BTW, I tried using the other program but no go. All the drivers were installed, rebooted computer...nothing. I think it is because I have W7 64 and not 32?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just call Tmobile and tell then that you were upgrading to froyo 2.2 using Kies mini and it froze...

I had a black screen once. I was flashing in odin and knocked the cable loose. I think I had to remove the battery, open odin, plug the usb cable in, then install the battery and possibly hold a key down on the phone. I believe the download screen then came up. Otherwise the phone would not respond nor would any lights come on

trdexalbee said:
I want to be clear that I am not blaming samsung for this but I thought samsung could have done a better job. Ill admit, this phone was the first phone that impressed me in years and as an engineer, I am hardly ever impressed; other engineers will get my point. I wish they had some soft of fail safe mechanism. For us who like to tweak things, I get we get what we deserve. But what about those who dont like to tweak and still brick their phones? i.e. those who use Kies Mini and still brick. I still have warranty on the phone and I'll try to take it up with Tmobile, hope they don know much about flashing. BTW, I tried using the other program but no go. All the drivers were installed, rebooted computer...nothing. I think it is because I have W7 64 and not 32?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depending on which drivers you installed (and there seem to be quite a few floating around) you might need to disable Driver Signature Checking in 64bit Windows OS's if the drivers are not signed. The easiest way I've found to do this is with EasyBCD . Install it, run it, click Advanced Options and enable loading of unsigned drivers. Do this before loading a potentially unsigned driver and you're good to go.
Just a tip, and my lengthy diatribe on responsibility was more to stem the potential tide of trolling such a thread is likely to generate than dump on you. I know what it's like to brick things. I've been bricking stuff for 30 years lol.

masterotaku said:
Depending on which drivers you installed (and there seem to be quite a few floating around) you might need to disable Driver Signature Checking in 64bit Windows OS's if the drivers are not signed. The easiest way I've found to do this is with EasyBCD . Install it, run it, click Advanced Options and enable loading of unsigned drivers. Do this before loading a potentially unsigned driver and you're good to go.
Just a tip, and my lengthy diatribe on responsibility was more to stem the potential tide of trolling such a thread is likely to generate than dump on you. I know what it's like to brick things. I've been bricking stuff for 30 years lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To disable driver signing, you ONLY need to run a single command and then reboot. And this applies to both Windows 7 and Vista.
Also to the OP.
You say you have no bootloader, but can't find ANYWHERE in this thread that says you were attempting to flash a bootloader. In fact, you can **** up partitioning, and your bootloader is still in tact. Been there, done that.
Do this. Plug the phone in, and leave it charging for about 30 minutes. Pull the phone off, hold the volume buttons, and plug the phone into a computer. See what happens. I had a ****ty situation end up happening to me, that I couldn't get the phone on for about 30 minutes. I had already even called T-Mobile for a replacement.

Thanks for all your suggestions guys. So yes this phone was definitely bricked beyond any software repair. I was going to JTAG it but I figured there MUST to be some hardware bootloader implemented. I went ahead and did the USB JIG and surprise, it booted from the hardware bootloader. I used ODIN to flash JFD and it works now. So my guess is samsung did implement a fail safe, which is the USB trick and forces the phone to boot from hardware. If that is true, this phone is brick proof, provided that all electronics still work.

trdexalbee said:
Thanks for all your suggestions guys. So yes this phone was definitely bricked beyond any software repair. I was going to JTAG it but I figured there MUST to be some hardware bootloader implemented. I went ahead and did the USB JIG and surprise, it booted from the hardware bootloader. I used ODIN to flash JFD and it works now. So my guess is samsung did implement a fail safe, which is the USB trick and forces the phone to boot from hardware. If that is true, this phone is brick proof, provided that all electronics still work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This "hardware" bootloader as you are calling it, is the exact bootloader that you can flash and TRULY brick your device. It is NOT a failsafe in the way in which you are referring. Please, please don't call it this. There are plenty of users on this forum that are clueless. The jig method, is a hardware jump point that Samsung has built in to allow you to get to download mode situations where the button method does not work.
As I mentioned earlier, you didn't flash a bootloader. Nor did you full on brick your device. Glad your device is back to normal now though.

my apologies then, it would be easier if samsung gave us the schematics, but that would never happen. So when we use odin to flash, we are not flashing the bootloader as well? Is the bootloader located on another ROM that is not easily accessible? I guess ROM would be the incorrect term since you stated you can "flash" the bootloader.

[Q] Help Please!! Bricked after Installing DARKSIDE Runny v2.2.0

So basically i Started Installing roms for like 4 months now, i started the rooting process using this guy's "Mackster248" method, witch was the gfree shown here: youtube.com/watch?v=c4B4y0CQUDo[/url]. I never tried anything more complicated than this aside from installing the genius button with required the need to use button shortcut app.
I've tried a few roms like VU 1.29. and a Vdoubleshoot one witch i hated. I loved vu 1.29.0 but i felt something was missing, so i tried the DARKSIDE Runny v2.1.0 first but found out that the voice recognition in the genius did not work, so i updated to 2.2.0. witch did work with the easy genius fix....Sooo I Loved it & decided to stay with it for good regardless of the ffc issue. So after reinstalling all my apps again i noticed that my power button would not lock and turn off the screen, I thought it was the button cause i had a problem with it being hard and sticking, so on the lock screen i "pulled the battery" yes after now reading in some forums I'm seeing that's a Big NO NO!
After trying to power on i get a Black screen of death where the black light turns on when pressing on the home screen only when the charger is plugged in so yes i am aware that I'm bricked but my question is why? This also happened to my friends "UNROOTED" mytouch 4g, when he was downloading something from the market the froze on him so i pulled the battery out and upon rebooting it was stuck on a line of androids. When sent to HTC they said it was the emmc chip.
So a some questions i have are, 1: Do these phone brick regardless of rooted or not? 2nd: Is pulling the battery out really so dangerous? if so what to do in my 2 scenarios? After i realized my phone was bricked i was thinking i should of used clockward mod before turning it off, but would that had made a difference? Ohh well i already know that HTC repairs rooted phones based on whats been posted in these forums so I'm not worried and i have already my shipped my phone...hopefully it wont take too long to replace that eMMc. Thanks for reading me out!

Maybe change the title of your thread... Your phone was bricked because you installed the Rom...

How r people getting the FFC to work with stock camera

wanabdev said:
So basically i Started Installing roms for like 4 months now, i started the rooting process using this guy's "Mackster248" method, witch was the gfree shown here: youtube.com/watch?v=c4B4y0CQUDo[/url]. I never tried anything more complicated than this aside from installing the genius button with required the need to use button shortcut app.
I've tried a few roms like VU 1.29. and a Vdoubleshoot one witch i hated. I loved vu 1.29.0 but i felt something was missing, so i tried the DARKSIDE Runny v2.1.0 first but found out that the voice recognition in the genius did not work, so i updated to 2.2.0. witch did work with the easy genius fix....Sooo I Loved it & decided to stay with it for good regardless of the ffc issue. So after reinstalling all my apps again i noticed that my power button would not lock and turn off the screen, I thought it was the button cause i had a problem with it being hard and sticking, so on the lock screen i "pulled the battery" yes after now reading in some forums I'm seeing that's a Big NO NO!
After trying to power on i get a Black screen of death where the black light turns on when pressing on the home screen only when the charger is plugged in so yes i am aware that I'm bricked but my question is why? This also happened to my friends "UNROOTED" mytouch 4g, when he was downloading something from the market the froze on him so i pulled the battery out and upon rebooting it was stuck on a line of androids. When sent to HTC they said it was the emmc chip.
So a some questions i have are, 1: Do these phone brick regardless of rooted or not? 2nd: Is pulling the battery out really so dangerous? if so what to do in my 2 scenarios? After i realized my phone was bricked i was thinking i should of used clockward mod before turning it off, but would that had made a difference? Ohh well i already know that HTC repairs rooted phones based on whats been posted in these forums so I'm not worried and i have already my shipped my phone...hopefully it wont take too long to replace that eMMc. Thanks for reading me out!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. I have yet to hear of a non-rooted phone bricking because of the bad eMMc chip, only after you root it does the chip start acting funny. could have been a possibility that you had the bad eMMc, did you check to see before taking the plunge and rooting your phone?(guessing not lol )
2. pulling the battery isnt as dangerous as everyone says it is. its only dangerous if you pull it while trying to flash the stock PD15IMG to return to stock, or during the phones booting process where its loading everything up. Ive pulled my battery plenty of times, but never in those situations.

Maybe hope
Out of curiosity are you able to get into the bootloader to run fastboot at all by holding down the power and the down volume on your phone? If so you could probably flash clockworkmod onto your phone again through fastboot and reflash a new rom.
If you're able to do this you could save your phone

macblaxter said:
Out of curiosity are you able to get into the bootloader to run fastboot at all by holding down the power and the down volume on your phone? If so you could probably flash clockworkmod onto your phone again through fastboot and reflash a new rom.
If you're able to do this you could save your phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DING DING DING we have ourselves a winner.
[OP] are you able to get into the bootloader or recovery?

I remember when I first started rooting my phone it would be titles like this that would scare me away form certain roms. Which is a good and bad thing. Although I would generalize the title a little. Like " dam i messed up installing a sense rom" this way it's a little more inviting to open minded people that want to help and less offending to people that put in time for tutorials and development
Sent using XDA App

aznprodgy said:
1. I have yet to hear of a non-rooted phone bricking because of the bad eMMc chip, only after you root it does the chip start acting funny. could have been a possibility that you had the bad eMMc, did you check to see before taking the plunge and rooting your phone?(guessing not lol )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong. To hear this (or actually, to see this), you only need to go to the eMMC thread in General section, and look at the poll. You'll see enough failed non-rooted "bad" eMMCs, and you'll also see some "good" eMMC chips fail, even non-rooted. If you were reading the forum for the last 1/2 year, you'd hear more than enough of stock phones dying with failed eMMC. You can just try searching and reading the threads.
Moreover, you're wrong about the dangers of battery pull too. The danger isn't only when you're writing to sensitive partitions. It's a bit complicated, but I'll try to explain:
When the power is turned off, it doesn't go out at once - it takes a bit of time, several microseconds, maybe less, maybe more, depends on the capacitance of the supply path. During that time the electronic circuits still act, but with gradually diminishing voltage.
Circuits are built to function reliably in certain voltage range. The thing is that under that range, they don't stop functioning immediately - there is a range where they still function, but unreliably. Signals can receive erroneous values that aren't determined by the logic.
During that unreliable functionality period, a sequence of signals might happen that will cause overwriting one of the system partitions in the eMMC - since the logic doesn't function reliably, it can happen. If the phone is currently writing to eMMC (which might easily happen - programs read and write data when they run), you only need a couple of bits to fail in the bus address and write protection mechanism. The probability is very low and there are protections against that, but still, they aren't 100%.
If it happens, the phone is dead.
To add to that, there could be physical effects on eMMC chip from uncontrolled voltage drop.
So, this is why there's a recommendation to avoid pulling the battery, and using it only when really necessary.

Jack_R1 said:
Wrong. To hear this (or actually, to see this), you only need to go to the eMMC thread in General section, and look at the poll. You'll see enough failed non-rooted "bad" eMMCs, and you'll also see some "good" eMMC chips fail, even non-rooted. If you were reading the forum for the last 1/2 year, you'd hear more than enough of stock phones dying with failed eMMC. You can just try searching and reading the threads.
Moreover, you're wrong about the dangers of battery pull too. The danger isn't only when you're writing to sensitive partitions. It's a bit complicated, but I'll try to explain:
When the power is turned off, it doesn't go out at once - it takes a bit of time, several microseconds, maybe less, maybe more, depends on the capacitance of the supply path. During that time the electronic circuits still act, but with gradually diminishing voltage.
Circuits are built to function reliably in certain voltage range. The thing is that under that range, they don't stop functioning immediately - there is a range where they still function, but unreliably. Signals can receive erroneous values that aren't determined by the logic.
During that unreliable functionality period, a sequence of signals might happen that will cause overwriting one of the system partitions in the eMMC - since the logic doesn't function reliably, it can happen. If the phone is currently writing to eMMC (which might easily happen - programs read and write data when they run), you only need a couple of bits to fail in the bus address and write protection mechanism. The probability is very low and there are protections against that, but still, they aren't 100%.
If it happens, the phone is dead.
To add to that, there could be physical effects on eMMC chip from uncontrolled voltage drop.
So, this is why there's a recommendation to avoid pulling the battery, and using it only when really necessary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well damn bro, didnt think it was that serious...

Hey Jack_R1 thanks for the input. I always enjoy getting a snapshot of information to clarify how things work.
wanabdev do you know if you're able to get into the boot loader to get access to fastboot? You really may be able to save your phone if you're still able to do this.

Wi-Fi Calling using Darkside Runny 2.2
Does anyone know how I can resolved my wifi calling issue using this ROM? I've tried about 10 ROMS on my MT4G, and found this to be the nicest. But when I'm on wifi, any calls I make or receive, the person on the other end says they can barely hear me. I can hear them just fine, but they can't. This is also true at multiple hotspots, ie. Starbucks, friends home, etc.
When I flash different ROM, this feature works just fine.
Help!

Chicago T said:
Does anyone know how I can resolved my wifi calling issue using this ROM? I've tried about 10 ROMS on my MT4G, and found this to be the nicest. But when I'm on wifi, any calls I make or receive, the person on the other end says they can barely hear me. I can hear them just fine, but they can't. This is also true at multiple hotspots, ie. Starbucks, friends home, etc.
When I flash different ROM, this feature works just fine.
Help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same here, not rooted. any calls I make or receive, the person on the other end says they can barely hear me. I can hear them just fine, but they can't.

Wi-Fi Calling using Darkside Runny 2.2
glacier1122 said:
same here, not rooted. any calls I make or receive, the person on the other end says they can barely hear me. I can hear them just fine, but they can't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, soooooo annoying. There's gotta be a fix out there? I like this ROM the best, it has all the little tweaks that make me happy!
Anyone have any ideas?

Flash the newest version.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1283682

Acer Iconia bricked...Need help

Hello to all good guys in xda-developers forum.
This is my very first post and I really feel desperate and need your kind help.
New Acer iconia with stock firmware 3.2.1 was nicely running this morning until I tried to root the device.It was supposed to be very simple process and not to get into dirty complicated procedures but the gingerbreak.apk did not work as expected so I tried alternative methods.What I read in various forums was that the gingerbreak application is not able to root the new firmwares version so I tried to downgrade the firmware to 3.0.1.
Downloaded the Acer stock recovery firmware EUUs_SBK_Acer_A501_0.017.01_PA_ATT.exe and attempted to flash onto my tablet .I think I did all necessary pre-installation checks.The process started but it stopped on 10 percent for about 30 minutes without any progress.Only Acer logo was displayed and 'entering file downloading mode' at the top of the screen.
After long time no change I finally gave up and unplugged the device from the USB port and restarted but nothing works since then.
1. No vibration on Start
2. Black screen
3. No new USB device appear on my PC
4. No sign of any activity other then power button light
I guess the original firmware was wiped but the new firmware was not flashed...for whatever reason...perhaps the worst scenario.
I will really appreciate If anybody may give me advice how to fix it.

So it turns on but does not display anything? Have you tried to hold the power button and volume down button at the same to when you turn it on to try to get it into recovery. Also there is a little reset button on the side you can try to push.
Sent from my A500 using xda premium

tried all those thinks.All kind of tricks I could find on the net.The problem is that the device is not showing up in the device manager e.g not detected as USB device of an y kind....

acera500 said:
tried all those thinks.All kind of tricks I could find on the net.The problem is that the device is not showing up in the device manager e.g not detected as USB device of an y kind....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try this thread. Look about halfway down, and you'll see almost the exact thing you did, and how this guy got it going.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1291747
Basically you can run a search for APX in the main forum threads and find some other posts, but hopefully this will get you going.
I pulled this from the general forum (eventually), but you can also search the Q&A main forum page as well, and the dev forum.
Another link;
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1255519&highlight=apx&page=2

If its new just return it to the store for another one.
Sent from my A500 using xda premium

Acer or the store did not brick it
i THINK If you mess with the rom on your tablet and... BRICK your device .. you should tough it out and fix yourself... Acer or the store is not responsible for this .But then you could also argue that if they had not locked the bootloader this type of bricking would not happen..
So i say go above and beyond to try to fix it from the help on here.. if that fails.. THEN Maybe exchange it.. Its wrong to brake something then expect someone else to foot the bill. Yes im to honest for my own good at times... Acer has also been known to repair .
If you bought a extra warranty all of the above in my book is out the window.. Make them replace it ..
GIGGLES..
Good luck on getting it repaired ..and be more careful next time..

Piece of cake to fix if you kept you USB serial number (from the downgrade tool)???
===== If you have your USB serial number ====================
1. Lets assume you know your USB serial number. If not, then you might be able to get it from your registry.
2. Download my flashing tool at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=20680452&postcount=137
a. Open up the readme.pdf for the instructions on how to flash
3. KEEP your acer unplugged and run the program
4. The program will install the APX flash drivers and will tell you to plug in the USB. Ignore this step. It will not work. In the instructions skip steps 3, 8, 9, 10.
5. Eventually the flashing tool will timeout because you do NOT have the tablet connected. It will then display a message box telling you how to use a paperclip and the power button to get you into APX mode. THIS IS THE secret to getting the tool to flash your ACER. However, once you get it into APX mode you will need your USB serial number (without it, you are fubar).
a. Plug in the tablet to your computer with the USB and paperclip yourself to fastboot.
6. Now in step 11, enter your USB serial number
7. Now just follow the rest of the instructions.
====== NO USB Serial number ==========
If you do not have your USB serial number than you are going to be out of luck, unless you have ever connected the device to your computer. If you did, then your registry will have a history containing your serial number.
Google usbdeview tool and download it. This will show the serial number of any USB device you've connected to your computer.
===== No Serial number, never connected it, what to do ==========
If you have no serial number and cannot get it, then hopefully you can get to recovery mode (power & volume) and flash using a signed update.zip from ACER. Download one of the update.zip's and put it on your external SDCard and then boot to recovery.
=== Bricked and No serial number, never connected, and you fubar'ed the recovery image ===
If you never connected your table to the USB and your computer to get the USB serial number then you are NOT going to be able to flash it to fix it.
If you fubar'ed the recovery image then you won't be able to get into recovery to run the ACER update zip.
At this point, you can still get your tablet into APX fastboot mode using a paperclip and the power button. But I know of NO way to flash it without the USB serial number and I know noway to get the USB serial number from the APX driver. I've tried and looked at getting the serial number from just APX mode, but I cannot determine how to get it. Someone out there might know.
Hope this helps,
TD

Your CPUID can also be found in the uid.txt file in your cwm backup folder - /mnt/external_sd/clockworkmod/backup/ - just remember to drop the 0x when you need to enter it

erica_renee said:
i THINK If you mess with the rom on your tablet and... BRICK your device .. you should tough it out and fix yourself... Acer or the store is not responsible for this .But then you could also argue that if they had not locked the bootloader this type of bricking would not happen..
So i say go above and beyond to try to fix it from the help on here.. if that fails.. THEN Maybe exchange it.. Its wrong to brake something then expect someone else to foot the bill. Yes im to honest for my own good at times... Acer has also been known to repair .
If you bought a extra warranty all of the above in my book is out the window.. Make them replace it ..
GIGGLES..
Good luck on getting it repaired ..and be more careful next time..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly if more people returned bricked phones/tablets etc... they would quit locking them down... the you broke it you fix it because they want to keep people from doing things they should be able to do with THEIR system they bought... In other words I completely don't agree with this at all.. If everything was unlocked and such then I would support the you fix it, but then again we wouldn't be running into these issues now would we. But then again Most people need people to babysit them and tell them what they can and can't do with what they own..

wade7919 said:
Honestly if more people returned bricked phones/tablets etc... they would quit locking them down... the you broke it you fix it because they want to keep people from doing things they should be able to do with THEIR system they bought... In other words I completely don't agree with this at all.. If everything was unlocked and such then I would support the you fix it, but then again we wouldn't be running into these issues now would we. But then again Most people need people to babysit them and tell them what they can and can't do with what they own..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@wade7919. You clearly have never worked in IT support on a hardware level.
Or maybe, I am barking up the wrong panty-leg?
If you bought a high dollar corvette, GM will support it. If you add an aftermarket chip, and your engine blows, do you expect GM to fix it? No. I wouldn't expect it either. Not their problem. Just because you can add a chip, doesn't mean you should do it.
That's why they try to lock bootloaders. To prevent users from doing things they shouldn't. Unlock them, and it opens a whole world of issues based on "open source". God help us if they unlock bootloaders.....
Not sure what you are getting at. I am under the belief, if you broke it, you fix it. Take responsibility for one's own actions. Shouldn't take the panzy pussyass way (no offence Erica and werecaltf), and return it for replacement. Suck it up, and learn from experience. Otherwise, the next device, you'll do the same stupid thing again.
I like things the way they are. Difficult, but not impossible. That separates the people with balls (again Erica and wercatlf, no offense), from the sheep.
But if you fubar the device, own up to it, and fix it. Don't pawn it off to somebody else (return it). And if you don't have the brain cells to have a backup plan before you start... Well, don't shed tears over it. Own up, throw the testosterone in the garbage disposal, and fix it.
Somebody give me a zanex...
And people, stop using Gingerbreak!!!!!!

Why locking a bootloader will cost ACER billions
Moscow and wade7919, you both make good arguments.
But it is what point of view you're coming form. If I bought a car and changed the RIM's on all 4 wheels and the engine blew up, would GM refuse to honor the warranty?
However, if I put jet fuel and alcohol in for gasoline and blew the engine why would they honor the warranty?
So, the question here is does rooting a device cause actual damage to the device thereby preventing rooting saves them warranty issues? Or is the device also considered to include the software and is covered under warranty?
I'm not taking sides here, but you both are making very good points but with different examples at different points of view.
So, lets look at other items and see if we can draw a parallel. If I buy a brand new Dell computer and send it in for Warranty and there is nothing wrong with the hardware they charge me (correct?). So if I fubar the OS or load something that caused the damage I pay for it or fix it. If there is actually a hardware failure then they cover it under warranty.
So, why does an Android MFG take the warranty one step further and include the OS and take steps to lock it so you cannot change it? Well, this is because nobody owns the OS (it's open source) therefore they take ownership of the build. Because there's no Microsoft to blame, they lock the software and consider it to be part of the overall device (Apple claimed this in their lawsuit). So, in the MFG's mind, there is no difference from the screen, keyboard, or the firmware & software.
So the question is what do you think should be covered under warranty? Most people think it should be just the hardware like a PC. Others see the whole device which includes the OS.
My point of view:
What follows is my rant and my opinion (you are warned )
In my opinion, I had NO problem until they decided to lock the bootloader. I have no problem with them claiming warranty from A-Z and if I change anything they won't warranty it. No problem, I understand that and accept full responsibility. But by ACER locking the bootloader they went too far.
To me this would be like GM welding the hood shut on my car. Better yet, it would be like me waking up one morning and opening my garage to get in my car and discover that during the night GM welded the hood shut. This, in my opinion, is illegal. Matter of fact, in my opinion, it violates US Federal hacking laws because they enter a system and destroyed data. I eventually think OEM's will get a class action suit filed on them for this.
Secondly, Windows 8 is going to be the game changer. OEM's can now make a hardware device and sit behind only warranting the hardware. You have a problem with the OS, call MS. Also, there is a HUGE (I mean HUGE). Did I mention HUGE, demand for tablets in business. Businesses will NOT put a device that has all these consumer games and social networking loaded into the workforce. There are billions in business applications that can be made, but you cannot sell them if they only run on a tablet that cannot have games removed etc.
Example might help: Medical field <- Think of all the applications a tablet can be used to save costs in hospitals. Do your really want your doctor or nurse etc using this tablet on facebook? Insurance company's, law firms, retailers, traveling sales, etc etc (Government). The list goes on.
Developers will see this huge opportunity and will write applications because they can sell them to A-Z and the business buying them will buy them because they can remove facebook and gmail from their company owned tablets. Now, as more and more developers move to Windows they'll drop Android. Want another example, read about Netflix and the issues they have had supporting a fragmented Android OS. So, business applications will move to Windows, but you might say so what, the consumer market is still there. True, but all you need is one killer application that everyone will want and for that to only be on Windows 8. Want some examples, here's my list, NFL (or sports), Netflix, Skype (gee owned by MS now isn't it?), or something new.
Bottom-line is this, if ACER and the others want to lock their bootloaders then they have just taken themselves out of the game for any business sales. Can you imagine walking into a boardroom showing the Government how your new VA application will save the VA Hospitals millions next year alone and improve veterans healthcare. Your application runs on any HC Android tablet. Everything is smoking, going great, as you hand your tablets, ACER a500', around the room. They are loving it. You just hit 'pay-dirt', then someone says hey I see these ACER's have gmail, facebook, blah blah. We cannot have government employees using tablets with those applications loaded, your installer removes them doesn't it? Silence enters the room, all eyes are focused on you. Your mind see millions escaping which were just within your grasp, you pause, you think, and you say YES General as you grab your Motorola Xoom and say 'that's why we recommend you buy nothing but Motorola.'. ACER just kissed millions in sales goodbye (oh and this is a true story).

i do believe acer should lock the bootloader on there devices.
However thee are things I would be doing with my tab if it were not locked.
Acer should give us the ability to flash the bootloader and not use the proprietary software. Lock that software to there bootloader.for there protections.
Give us a wway to unlock it..AT OUR OWN RISK..
So it should be locked but have a way to unlock it with the end user understanding they are totally on there own ..
I would be OK with voiding my warranty.

@Dean,
"So if I fubar the OS or load something that caused the damage I pay for it or fix it. If there is actually a hardware failure then they cover it under warranty."
Yes, that is true. Bootloaders are locked, to prevent completely stupid idiots, from doing things they absolutely no idea what the sam hell they are doing.
The issue is, should we be able to return a device, after we fubarred it? Against warranty? To say, Hey, your weakness allowed me to do it.
Just because the ability to do it exists, and we can quote a thousand instances, It doesn't mean we should, and to shirk responsibility. And pass it off to the main individual.
The fact is, the policies and regulations are there, and we should abide. And if we don't, we have to own up and deal with it.
And if we don't, then we are no better than the low life of the world. The scum.

Moscow Desire said:
@Dean,
"So if I fubar the OS or load something that caused the damage I pay for it or fix it. If there is actually a hardware failure then they cover it under warranty."
Yes, that is true. Bootloaders are locked, to prevent completely stupid idiots, from doing things they absolutely no idea what the sam hell they are doing.
The issue is, should we be able to return a device, after we fubarred it? Against warranty? To say, Hey, your weakness allowed me to do it.
Just because the ability to do it exists, and we can quote a thousand instances, It doesn't mean we should, and to shirk responsibility. And pass it off to the main individual.
The fact is, the policies and regulations are there, and we should abide. And if we don't, we have to own up and deal with it.
And if we don't, then we are no better than the low life of the world. The scum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very well put.I do know of a few people who have sent there device to acer after messing it up installing rom and telling acer.acer still fixed it free.
Honesty is always best

The evils of rooting
I'm still missing something here, why locking a bootloader does anything. Go get a Mortorola Xoom (not the FE) and you run the unlock OEM. It tells you that you are unlocking it. It tells you that you unlock it at your own risk. You cannot relock it until it is 100% back to stock. It asks you three times are you sure.
Locking the bootloader and treating everyone as an idiot is the problem. Just do what Motorola does, and stop being everybody's keeper. If they want to 'Police' this then you should have to call ACER and they fax you a form. You give DNA to prove who you are and fax it back. Then you go to a mandatory rooting class, that lasts for 5 days, where ACER preaches to you the sins of rooting. Then you have to take and pass a test. Then and only then, after passing the test you get a certificate. Then you call back, give them your certificate ID. Now they give you the secret key to unlock only your tablet.
That's the ticket,
TD
Bottom-line, it's not that they locked the boatloader, it's that you cannot unlock it. Like I said, go out to your driveway some morning and find that GM welded the hood to your car shut because they think you are stupid and shouldn't be opening the hood. Mind you that YESTERDAY, and at the time your bought it, it was not welded shut. That ladies and gentlemen is what ACER did with their OTA.

Moscow Desire said:
@wade7919. You clearly have never worked in IT support on a hardware level.
Or maybe, I am barking up the wrong panty-leg?
If you bought a high dollar corvette, GM will support it. If you add an aftermarket chip, and your engine blows, do you expect GM to fix it? No. I wouldn't expect it either. Not their problem. Just because you can add a chip, doesn't mean you should do it.
That's why they try to lock bootloaders. To prevent users from doing things they shouldn't. Unlock them, and it opens a whole world of issues based on "open source". God help us if they unlock bootloaders.....
Not sure what you are getting at. I am under the belief, if you broke it, you fix it. Take responsibility for one's own actions. Shouldn't take the panzy pussyass way (no offence Erica and werecaltf), and return it for replacement. Suck it up, and learn from experience. Otherwise, the next device, you'll do the same stupid thing again.
I like things the way they are. Difficult, but not impossible. That separates the people with balls (again Erica and wercatlf, no offense), from the sheep.
But if you fubar the device, own up to it, and fix it. Don't pawn it off to somebody else (return it). And if you don't have the brain cells to have a backup plan before you start... Well, don't shed tears over it. Own up, throw the testosterone in the garbage disposal, and fix it.
Somebody give me a zanex...
And people, stop using Gingerbreak!!!!!!
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Click to collapse
Okay comparing A Tablet or PHone to a car is stupid... Compare it to a Desktop Computer or Laptop... Companies do not lock them down so you can not use different OS's now do they.. They offer Backups to restore the system back to how it was with recovery partitions dont they? or they offer the choice to buy whatever OS you want to install correct? they don't limit you to say just Windows or *NIX do they? But we don't see laptops or desktops locked down to where you can't upgrade your system yourself or anything else... and any dumdass can do that without an issue most of the time. and there is more issues with viruses and crap on computers than phones or tablets...
So before you start making statements like compare this to that learn what to compare to first. If you mess something up on a hardware level sure pay for it.. if you mess something up on a software level because they decided to Babysit people its their fault. and if you think its the persons fault because they decided to open up a PRODUCT that they bought and own then you are one of the people that need babysitting and like everyone telling you what to do and how to do it. Go to an apple product then.
---------- Post added at 07:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:51 PM ----------
Also if you really brick your device you can always give
http://paranoidandroid.us an email to findout about getting it fixed

wade7919 said:
Okay comparing A Tablet or PHone to a car is stupid... Compare it to a Desktop Computer or Laptop... Companies do not lock them down so you can not use different OS's now do they.. They offer Backups to restore the system back to how it was with recovery partitions dont they? or they offer the choice to buy whatever OS you want to install correct? they don't limit you to say just Windows or *NIX do they? But we don't see laptops or desktops locked down to where you can't upgrade your system yourself or anything else... and any dumdass can do that without an issue most of the time. and there is more issues with viruses and crap on computers than phones or tablets...
So before you start making statements like compare this to that learn what to compare to first. If you mess something up on a hardware level sure pay for it.. if you mess something up on a software level because they decided to Babysit people its their fault. and if you think its the persons fault because they decided to open up a PRODUCT that they bought and own then you are one of the people that need babysitting and like everyone telling you what to do and how to do it. Go to an apple product then.
---------- Post added at 07:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:51 PM ----------
Also if you really brick your device you can always give
http://paranoidandroid.us an email to findout about getting it fixed
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Click to collapse
I still like my car comparison
I make the car comparison to illustrate a point, because when I compare tablets to a PC everyone piles on *****ing about MS.
Bottom-line it doesn't matter if it's a blender or a PC. I own it, you own yours and I can do what I want with mine as you can with yours. Now, again I have a BIG(did i mention BIG issue with them changing it on me after I bought it.

To get back on topic, is the original poster still out there?? Has any of this helped? Are you still bricked?? Give us an update so we know if anything worked or you still need help.

The device was returned and accepted for replacement by the shop.Got new one and feel very nervous to start rooting procedure over.I was really lucky that they did not charge me anything but I really want to know what I did wrong so I don't brick my new device again.
I will provide further details soon about my computer OS and firewall settings and perhaps we may figure out what I did wrong.
To all good guys who send me them suggestions and solutions I wanna say big THANK YOU !!!
Your help is really priceless and thrilled me deeply. Will update topic soon

Happy New Yer to all Android fans!!!
So...Back on the subject.
My device was purchased in Japan and its current firmware version is
Acer_A500_7.009.03_AAP_CUS6JP
Q1. Can I flash US or World Wide firmware version on that device.
Q2. Does anybody know the Acer's ftp download server address for Japan
Q3. I think its a good idea to dump my original stock firmware but it seems there is no way doing that prior rooting.So..kinda stuck .any suggestions appreciated.
P.S. I'm thinking about flashing the latest Rooted rom 3.2.1 V3 by timmiDean (thanks for your hard work) I read the instructions very carefully and I think that everything will go smoothly but just in case (considering the specific Japanese firmware version)
would appreciate any further directions by the author.
Thanks