[PROBLEM SOLVED]
Ive been flashing back and forth to different builds trying which is better. I made sure I took the cautions not to flash builds that would brick my phone. There were 4 times that I soft bricked my phone but I was able to revive it. However, my little game has come to an end with this last one. The fault was this guide: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=817186.
Little did I know, by doing a repartition and not loading anything to the NAND resulted in the bootloader not being installed. (Devices like this should have a ROM programmed to recover from these errors, think Gigabyte) Upon reset, the phone went out and didn't turn back on. ODIN reports success. Now the phone cannot turn back on, no matter what battery pull method I use, I get nothing on the screen. So much for fail-safe protocols Samsung has implemented, if there are even any. Poorly engineered!
EDIT:Thanks for all your suggestions guys. So yes this phone was definitely bricked beyond any software repair. I was going to JTAG it but I figured there MUST to be some hardware bootloader implemented. I went ahead and did the USB JIG and surprise, it booted from the hardware bootloader. I used ODIN to flash JFD and it works now. So my guess is samsung did implement a fail safe, which is the USB trick and forces the phone to boot from hardware. If that is true, this phone is brick proof, provided that all electronics still work.
EDIT 2: I am wrong about the bootloader being hardware. Some say it is flashable, so it is possible you can get a real TRUE brick and must need JTAG to revive it. Fortunately for me, I was able to use the USB JIG method to get it back up and running. Too bad, a new phone would've been nice.
Not poorly engineered, just poorly made user input.
Yes true, but samsung should have taken into account accidents like this will happen then they dont have control over who administers their update. People have bricked their phones by doing the factory update. When I design systems like these, I always make sure there is a fail safe backup that the user cannot modify. I am sure samsung has one and maybe they just dont let us access it.
I sometimes encounter the same error message but I never repartition. Luckily, i never clicked on it in Odin.
But you have to realize that most of those bricks are because people modified their phones from factory (ie. Voodoo and OCLF). Odin, a program used by internal Samsung engineers, was never meant for the public and shouldn't be used unless you know how to use it.
I agree, there should be an absolute fail safe if worse comes to worse, but the point I am making here is Samsung isn't wrong in this case.
When you violate warranties and experiment you tacitly accept responsibility for your actions. To not do so is not an act of rebellious ire...it is an act of denial.
Manufacturers do not, nor can not prepare for all scenarios because the possible number of scenario's to cover are legion. I don't see it as realistic especially for them to prepare for brick scenario's created by using a leaked internal engineering tool that the community has figured out largely through trial and error either. OTA and Mini Kies bricks they are responsible for, for obvious reasons, and Samsung and T-Mobile have taken responsibility for these scenarios because they are ones of their making.
XDA is not a place where people file warranty complaints (though some do complain). It is a place where people experiment, hack, and customize smartphones. Though some manufacturers do a better job than others at getting out of our way here (Samsung hasn't done so bad here relative to say Motorola), I don't think any of them particularly "care" about such community efforts in any meaningful sense. And why should they?
By modifying our devices aren't we quite clearly saying we're taking matters into our own hands? You have to balance your strong desire to tinker with the reality of where responsibilities lie.
These phones are some of the most difficult Android phones to brick. Anecdotally and statistically shown to be. Not impossible of course, but quite difficult. I feel for your bad experience but at least consider shouldering some of the blame.
Thank god i am too scared to use odin. The deepest i go is clockwork recovery, but good luck with your paperweight.
Too bad the SGS is so light, it wouldnt make a good paperweight, or even a brick.
but seriously, the warranty is there to protect users which this happens to, assuming it wasnt voided by hacking the phone. Are you asking samsung to take into account that you would hack the phone and provide a way back after you have a bad hack and probably make themselves liable by providing that way back in case it does not work properly?
I want to be clear that I am not blaming samsung for this but I thought samsung could have done a better job. Ill admit, this phone was the first phone that impressed me in years and as an engineer, I am hardly ever impressed; other engineers will get my point. I wish they had some soft of fail safe mechanism. For us who like to tweak things, I get we get what we deserve. But what about those who dont like to tweak and still brick their phones? i.e. those who use Kies Mini and still brick. I still have warranty on the phone and I'll try to take it up with Tmobile, hope they don know much about flashing. BTW, I tried using the other program but no go. All the drivers were installed, rebooted computer...nothing. I think it is because I have W7 64 and not 32?
Have you tried the jig method of getting into dl mode?
engineer14 said:
Thank god i am too scared to use odin. The deepest i go is clockwork recovery, but good luck with your paperweight.
Too bad the SGS is so light, it wouldnt make a good paperweight, or even a brick.
but seriously, the warranty is there to protect users which this happens to, assuming it wasnt voided by hacking the phone. Are you asking samsung to take into account that you would hack the phone and provide a way back after you have a bad hack and probably make themselves liable by providing that way back in case it does not work properly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep on flashing, and eventually Odin will probably save your butt
Don't be scared of it, it works great. And it is safe to use.
========================================
I'm really sorry about your phone man, I didn't know that you had to NAND before re-partition, thank god I've never checked that but I might have in the future had you not shared this with us, so thanks a lot!
I guess your loss is everyone elses gain
No I havent tried the Jig method. The thread says that I need to have at least the samsung screen, so some kind of activity. This phone is just off, nothing comes on, no buttons, no screen...just dead. I think when I followed that guide, it told be to repartition and then reboot with the "PDA" field empty. So the phone rebooted when it finished formatting without installing anything. Now the NAND is at a "blank" state and I do not have any bootloader on there. Anyone know of a method to install a bootloader without the phone turning on?
I might be a little too far out of my element here but I think I found a guide to remove the sdcard and format it via pc one time when I was in a similar situation. I am at work currently and I also cannot remember if I have the link saved.
Maybe some phone expert in your city may help you to install the bootlaoder. I think it's called jtagging, I'm not sure though.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
trdexalbee said:
I want to be clear that I am not blaming samsung for this but I thought samsung could have done a better job. Ill admit, this phone was the first phone that impressed me in years and as an engineer, I am hardly ever impressed; other engineers will get my point. I wish they had some soft of fail safe mechanism. For us who like to tweak things, I get we get what we deserve. But what about those who dont like to tweak and still brick their phones? i.e. those who use Kies Mini and still brick. I still have warranty on the phone and I'll try to take it up with Tmobile, hope they don know much about flashing. BTW, I tried using the other program but no go. All the drivers were installed, rebooted computer...nothing. I think it is because I have W7 64 and not 32?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just call Tmobile and tell then that you were upgrading to froyo 2.2 using Kies mini and it froze...
I had a black screen once. I was flashing in odin and knocked the cable loose. I think I had to remove the battery, open odin, plug the usb cable in, then install the battery and possibly hold a key down on the phone. I believe the download screen then came up. Otherwise the phone would not respond nor would any lights come on
trdexalbee said:
I want to be clear that I am not blaming samsung for this but I thought samsung could have done a better job. Ill admit, this phone was the first phone that impressed me in years and as an engineer, I am hardly ever impressed; other engineers will get my point. I wish they had some soft of fail safe mechanism. For us who like to tweak things, I get we get what we deserve. But what about those who dont like to tweak and still brick their phones? i.e. those who use Kies Mini and still brick. I still have warranty on the phone and I'll try to take it up with Tmobile, hope they don know much about flashing. BTW, I tried using the other program but no go. All the drivers were installed, rebooted computer...nothing. I think it is because I have W7 64 and not 32?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depending on which drivers you installed (and there seem to be quite a few floating around) you might need to disable Driver Signature Checking in 64bit Windows OS's if the drivers are not signed. The easiest way I've found to do this is with EasyBCD . Install it, run it, click Advanced Options and enable loading of unsigned drivers. Do this before loading a potentially unsigned driver and you're good to go.
Just a tip, and my lengthy diatribe on responsibility was more to stem the potential tide of trolling such a thread is likely to generate than dump on you. I know what it's like to brick things. I've been bricking stuff for 30 years lol.
masterotaku said:
Depending on which drivers you installed (and there seem to be quite a few floating around) you might need to disable Driver Signature Checking in 64bit Windows OS's if the drivers are not signed. The easiest way I've found to do this is with EasyBCD . Install it, run it, click Advanced Options and enable loading of unsigned drivers. Do this before loading a potentially unsigned driver and you're good to go.
Just a tip, and my lengthy diatribe on responsibility was more to stem the potential tide of trolling such a thread is likely to generate than dump on you. I know what it's like to brick things. I've been bricking stuff for 30 years lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To disable driver signing, you ONLY need to run a single command and then reboot. And this applies to both Windows 7 and Vista.
Also to the OP.
You say you have no bootloader, but can't find ANYWHERE in this thread that says you were attempting to flash a bootloader. In fact, you can **** up partitioning, and your bootloader is still in tact. Been there, done that.
Do this. Plug the phone in, and leave it charging for about 30 minutes. Pull the phone off, hold the volume buttons, and plug the phone into a computer. See what happens. I had a ****ty situation end up happening to me, that I couldn't get the phone on for about 30 minutes. I had already even called T-Mobile for a replacement.
Thanks for all your suggestions guys. So yes this phone was definitely bricked beyond any software repair. I was going to JTAG it but I figured there MUST to be some hardware bootloader implemented. I went ahead and did the USB JIG and surprise, it booted from the hardware bootloader. I used ODIN to flash JFD and it works now. So my guess is samsung did implement a fail safe, which is the USB trick and forces the phone to boot from hardware. If that is true, this phone is brick proof, provided that all electronics still work.
trdexalbee said:
Thanks for all your suggestions guys. So yes this phone was definitely bricked beyond any software repair. I was going to JTAG it but I figured there MUST to be some hardware bootloader implemented. I went ahead and did the USB JIG and surprise, it booted from the hardware bootloader. I used ODIN to flash JFD and it works now. So my guess is samsung did implement a fail safe, which is the USB trick and forces the phone to boot from hardware. If that is true, this phone is brick proof, provided that all electronics still work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This "hardware" bootloader as you are calling it, is the exact bootloader that you can flash and TRULY brick your device. It is NOT a failsafe in the way in which you are referring. Please, please don't call it this. There are plenty of users on this forum that are clueless. The jig method, is a hardware jump point that Samsung has built in to allow you to get to download mode situations where the button method does not work.
As I mentioned earlier, you didn't flash a bootloader. Nor did you full on brick your device. Glad your device is back to normal now though.
my apologies then, it would be easier if samsung gave us the schematics, but that would never happen. So when we use odin to flash, we are not flashing the bootloader as well? Is the bootloader located on another ROM that is not easily accessible? I guess ROM would be the incorrect term since you stated you can "flash" the bootloader.
Related
Hi all
A quick question please. I hope nobody minds me posting his here as a new thread. Aplogies if so.
I read somewhere yesterday that custom ROM's are only a "grey area" as opposed to automatically and immediately invalidating your warranty. Is this corrrect please? I must admit I have always conisidered being forced what ROM to run is a bit like telling me I cannot change my PC's OS from Windows to Linux. At the end oif the day it is my hardware and I can put what I like on it in terms of software is, my view. I really take exception when HTC support tell me and have done more than once, I should install no 3rd party apps. on my phone. A PC with no software now, either!?
Many thanks in adavnce.
As far as I can guess...
Well, you're kinda right about it being a "grey" area. Reason being, as far as I can figure, is because HTC needs to cover their bases. Their devices can really only be insured to work according to the specifications they were designed to work. Ever heard of a flasher bricking their phone? Well, it wouldn't have happened if said person didn't flash their phone. These devices are tried and tested at the company's factories, to run well under very specific conditions. When we go flashing other roms onto them, it begins taking the hardware out of those safe confines of operation.
If you've ever read about what to do with a phone you need to return, it always states that you should return the phone to it's original SPL, and that if the spl is hacked, the company won't take it back. Most likely because if they took back a functional phone (with a hacked SPL) it would work against them if another device with a hacked SPL had to be returned on account of hardware problems.
If the hardware faults while running the intended rom, the blame is easy to place, and hard to dispute. If the device faults while running modified software (rom) it becomes harder to place who's fault it is. Sure, the phone SHOULD technically run the other rom and SPL, but then again, if something goes wrong you're certainly going to be trying everything in your power to get a new one for free. And unfortunately for HTC, that means they take the brunt for a failure that otherwise wouldn't have happened were you not modding your phone.
Grey area? Yep. One of those things, if you get caught, you're guilty. Then again, the amount of phones that need to be returned on account of modding, seem relatively low compared to the amount of devices which are regularly and successfully modded.
-Caid.
444
It's not that big a deal. If there's a hardware fault - just flash everything back to the stock spl and rom before you send it back and HTC will honour the warranty. If you brick it through flashing that's your problem though although it's basically unheard of.
How to re-flash if the phone won't boot
How I re-flash if won't boot up?
You can always start it in Loader mode (power and volume up (or down, never remember) button and reset the phone, it will launch in loader mode) while having the image in the root of your Flash card. It should flash the rom from there.
Hi everyone!
I'm wondering, how risky it is to flash new firmware to the tab? Is it really brickable, I mean, is it possible to really really brick the tab to a point where it's not possible to fix it? I'm asking partly because I'm a rookie, but mostly because it seems that everyone who manages to brick their tab around here, is somehow able to restore it. Or am I mistaken?
Where I live, the tab has a starting price of $1100. And thats gotta be one of the most expensive bricks in xda history. And if I brick mine, I know I won't be able to resist buying a new one, which adds ut to a $2200 pricetag and a very VERY angry gf..
thanks btw to all of you who make this place what it is
As risky as any other device. Simple. The risk doesnt just lay on the devices shoulders, its the user and the rom maker.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
Okay, I'm so confused with the brick-terminology being used here. In all posts regardig new firmware to the tab you'll see at least to guys saying that they bricked their tab. Only to say that they fixed it/unbricked it moments later.
I thought that if you bricked your device, whatever device it is, then it's dead, period. No more usefull than a brick like the ones you'll find in a brick wall, just a hell of a lot more expensive. Heck, the word "unbrick" shouldn't even exist by this definition.
So, let me rephrase:
If I brick my tab, can't I just unbrick it? And if not, why? Is it even possible for the tab to be totally and permanently bricked forever? Is the tab in any way safer to fool around with than other devices? Do we know anyone who have bricked their tab permanently? Should I be afraid of fooling around with my tabs firmware for real?
I think it's just a question of perception on the part of the person who "bricked" their device (the "brickie"? ). If you flash and find that you have what appears to be a dead device then you may well come on here and say "I've bricked my device!". You may then find that it's not bricked at all as there is a way (previously unknown to yourself) to recover. I remember in the old days on here people would pick up "bricked" phones on ebay etc, knowing that quite often they could recover them. It probably still happens...
But devices certainly can get permanently bricked too as you know. Personally, I would only flash if I had confidence in myself that it would work, having read up on the procedure and seen enough working examples. Others may just dive in and see what happens . Only you can decide if it's worth the risk or not, but these days I think it's quite rare to permanently brick a device if you fully understand the procedures and the risks. A stable recovery ROM makes a big difference. Not sure if the SGT has that yet.
paulshields said:
A stable recovery ROM makes a big difference. Not sure if the SGT has that yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's in the works, just not quite there yet.
As Paul said, there's always going to be a risk it COULD happen. But following documentation and fully understanding the task at hand before diving in helps to limit the risks to a minimum.
Thanks to all of you for enlightening me
When I was flashing the different files to get calling on my ATT Tab I managed to flash the wrong file and get the device not to boot up but there was still the "download mode" to go into and I was then able to flash the correct file. I find it is very rare to actually "brick" a device requiring the device to be replaced or cracked open & reprogrammed manually. Most of the time now when a device is described as a brick it just won't boot the OS like it is normally supposed to.
paulshields said:
I think it's just a question of perception on the part of the person who "bricked" their device (the "brickie"? ). If you flash and find that you have what appears to be a dead device then you may well come on here and say "I've bricked my device!". You may then find that it's not bricked at all as there is a way (previously unknown to yourself) to recover. I remember in the old days on here people would pick up "bricked" phones on ebay etc, knowing that quite often they could recover them. It probably still happens...
But devices certainly can get permanently bricked too as you know. Personally, I would only flash if I had confidence in myself that it would work, having read up on the procedure and seen enough working examples. Others may just dive in and see what happens . Only you can decide if it's worth the risk or not, but these days I think it's quite rare to permanently brick a device if you fully understand the procedures and the risks. A stable recovery ROM makes a big difference. Not sure if the SGT has that yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol @ "brickie" - I guess you have to be British to get that one?
As for "bricking" , quite right, the device isn't "bricked" if it can be fixed by the user.
People have gotten sloppy with the term, but really it means that you could build a house with it if it were fat enough, but it's no more useful than an expensive paperweight.
The worst you can do without bricking is boot-loop/no-boot which can usually be fixed. The point is, if the device shows any signs of life whatsoever, it's usually fixable.
I thought I bricked my tab, I got the infamous "phone-!-pc" screen
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:Samsung_Galaxy_S_Black_Screen_of_Death.jpg
I thought I was screwed. However, I still had it connected via USB and Odin still running and I saw that the com port popped up. I though, hmmmm
clicky and bam, its flashing.
Got it back.
This was after a stupid botched flash attempt on my part.
So, I think you REALLY gotta mess it up to be proper "bricked"
I did a lots of tries and I thing that is not that easy to brick, but I can give a suggestion: Backup the EFS folder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I deleted by mistake with root explorer the nv_data and relatives backups, and I had a corrupted IMEI that is not a brick but I think is one of the bad things (and hard to recover if not impossible if you don't have a backup) because if the carriers ban double IMEI the phone (tab) will not work + is not legal
Forgot to say: seems that some SGS firmware upgrades corrupted the IMEI too, I didn't see something flashing the TAB, but restoring the EFS folder will fix (almost always) the problems
I have not tried to brick my GT, but the JM6 gave me a scare... I have been flashing it for a while now.
The one thing you have to give up for now is SWYPE. I se you have a norwegian flag... And norwegian is not included in any flash I have found. So if you ever decide to try flashing. Say goodbye to SWYPE in norwegian for now...
Yeah, the loss of the Norwegian keyboard is the only thing stopping me from flashing jm6. Lucky for me, I'm very patient.
Sent from my HeTC Desire using XDA App
Apparently, you can brick it. I succeeded !
I flashed with Odin and a custom made PDA package including boot.bin but no repartition.
Odin flashed without problems but the Tab did not reboot and simply 'died'.
Black screen all the time, no recovery/download mode, not seen by the PC, does not charge on ac/dc (neither the charger or the PDA ever gets hot, no sound on connection, ...).
I'm letting the battery discharge completely (but how long can that take when it's not using any energy...) to test again tomorrow but I will probably RMA it on monday.
One thing that concerns me is not being able to remove the battery to force the phone to shut down completely.
As an example when I originally 'bricked' my SGS using Kies, no matter how many times I powered the phone it simply refused to go into Recovery or Download mode. All it would do was show me the two icons on screen.
The only way I managed to totally shut the phone down was by removing the battery and wait 30 seconds before returning. Only then would the SGS allow me to access the 3-Button Recovery/Download Mode.
So..... has anyone come across a situation where you needed to remove the battery and if so how did you manage to recover?
Beards said:
One thing that concerns me is not being able to remove the battery to force the phone to shut down completely.
As an example when I originally 'bricked' my SGS using Kies, no matter how many times I powered the phone it simply refused to go into Recovery or Download mode. All it would do was show me the two icons on screen.
The only way I managed to totally shut the phone down was by removing the battery and wait 30 seconds before returning. Only then would the SGS allow me to access the 3-Button Recovery/Download Mode.
So..... has anyone come across a situation where you needed to remove the battery and if so how did you manage to recover?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The worst I have done is get the device in the "Phone---!----PC" mode where you can't enter "Download Mode". It seems that simply flashing a new PIT file and then forcing it off, it will then enter download mode again.
alias_neo said:
The worst I have done is get the device in the "Phone---!----PC" mode where you can't enter "Download Mode". It seems that simply flashing a new PIT file and then forcing it off, it will then enter download mode again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A little un-nerving isn't it... I have deep thoughts of not being able to get the Tab to drop out of memory by not being able to remove the battery and flush.
Beards said:
One thing that concerns me is not being able to remove the battery to force the phone to shut down completely.
As an example when I originally 'bricked' my SGS using Kies, no matter how many times I powered the phone it simply refused to go into Recovery or Download mode. All it would do was show me the two icons on screen.
The only way I managed to totally shut the phone down was by removing the battery and wait 30 seconds before returning. Only then would the SGS allow me to access the 3-Button Recovery/Download Mode.
So..... has anyone come across a situation where you needed to remove the battery and if so how did you manage to recover?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that when you leave/turn "USB Debugging" on in Applications -> Development, it is fairly save. As long as you are near a computer with adb installed and you have your usb cable within reach, you can reboot the device into recovery with adb reboot recovery or just reboot with adb reboot.
Another way is of course to let the battery run out of power, charge it and reboot.
appelflap said:
I think that when you leave/turn "USB Debugging" on in Applications -> Development, it is fairly save. As long as you are near a computer with adb installed and you have your usb cable within reach, you can reboot the device into recovery with adb reboot recovery or just reboot with adb reboot.
Another way is of course to let the battery run out of power, charge it and reboot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you saying that the Tab will accept an "adb reboot" in it's unresponsive black screen state or some other? I'v not yet come across a state where just holding power didn't turn it off.
appelflap said:
I think that when you leave/turn "USB Debugging" on in Applications -> Development, it is fairly save. As long as you are near a computer with adb installed and you have your usb cable within reach, you can reboot the device into recovery with adb reboot recovery or just reboot with adb reboot.
Another way is of course to let the battery run out of power, charge it and reboot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Running down the battery is an option... but it would take an age seeing as you're not doing anything with the phone except looking at two icons on a black screen.
alias_neo said:
Are you saying that the Tab will accept an "adb reboot" in it's unresponsive black screen state or some other? I'v not yet come across a state where just holding power didn't turn it off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That thought passed me by as well.
alias_neo said:
Are you saying that the Tab will accept an "adb reboot" in it's unresponsive black screen state or some other? I'v not yet come across a state where just holding power didn't turn it off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did . I was fooling around with the button definitions of the tab, I lost all my buttons so to speak (also the powerbutton) and couldn't get into the system. A simple adb reboot got me out of there without any problem.
Yes, I believe adb can connect with the Tab in very unresponsive states and still issue commands. I've seen it also with my old galaxy S. A bad flash and a blank screen still gave me access to the system shell with adb.
My lesson learned is: alway have "USB Debugging" turned on.
Hello XDA Community!
I made a post about this issue before, but have more details so hopefully someone can help me figure out this issue.
My phone even when unplugged from my PC continuously says USB Connected/ USB Debugging in the notification menu.
Also, when I try and reboot the phone, instead of booting even to the Vibrant logo screen, the loading circle continuously blinks on and off, without actually booting.
As I type this, I am not holding down the power button, and the loading circle is blinking on and off by itself....
I used to be able to turn the phone on into recovery mode in the past, but now when I try to reboot into recovery I get a big yellow picture that says "Downloading"
The only way the phone will turn on is if it is plugged in.
I am fairly certain that this reboot issue and the USB issue are correlated in some way.
Did anyone else have this issue with their phones? And if so, how did you solve it?
Another thing I have just discovered...
When the phone is on and idle, the USB Connection notification will constantly blink on and off, which is why I think the phone would do the same when trying to power on!
Is this a hardware issue or a software issue?
I have not flashed anything in a very long time before this issue started happening so I believe a restore is unnecessary .
Someone please help me! This is very annoying, not only do I have NO notification bar because of the constant USB Connection notification turning on and off, I cannot turn on my phone at all unless it is plugged in!
ACK!
Take it back
I carry the insurance, so personally if this was happening to me I would not even mess with it. It sounds like you have a genuine problem with the phone and it needs to be replaced.
If it is possible to do try a nandroid backup of your phone to make getting back to where you are on your new device easier. Then take your phone back to stock with the recovery image here -->
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=734475 (Thank you justanothercrowd)
One you have a stock device see if you are still having the issue. If you are take it back as defective. Even if you don't have the insurance, that sounds like a factory defect and should be covered by the factory warranty. The insurance just makes the process easier and makes sure they just give you a swap out at the store rather than having to wait for repairs. It also covers things the warranty does not, such as screen breakage - which is the specific reason I carry the insurance.
Ah crap wish I had insurance.... Do I have to do that whole odin procedure or is there a one click un root procedure as well?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Nevermind i just read through that link you posted. So when i go to a t mobile store do i have to unroot or can i just hide my root applications until i get a new phone?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I actually have not had reason to go back to stock, or even use odin yet at this point. My only roms were .zip files that I flashed via clockwork recovery.
I would say that your best best it to just follow the instructions on justanothercrowd's thread very carefully and deliberately. You are already having issues with reboots and your USB port, so this is not the time to deviate into experiments.
So to cut you off and just answer you next three questions:
Q) Can I just . . .
A) No! Just follow the directions exactly.
Q) But can I . . .
A) No! Just follow the directions exactly.
Q) Do I have to . . .
A) Hey look, Just follow the damn directions exactly!
Sorry, I can't help much beyond that. You chose to modify your phone and risk that you would not have issues, just like the rest of us here. In your case you did have issues. Now you have to get it back to stock so they don't have any reason to claim you caused this or that your warranty is void. I hope all goes well and it works out for you. Let as know and keep us posted. Good luck.
Lo N Slo said:
Nevermind i just read through that link you posted. So when i go to a t mobile store do i have to unroot or can i just hide my root applications until i get a new phone?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We must have been typing at the same time LOL.
There is a thread on unrooting, and basically it is just deleting a few things. After doing this you should not have any non-stock applications on the phone and there would be no reason to think it was rooted unless they went digging on the file system. Personally, I would delete those telltale files just in case, it looks a little suspicious to bring in a phone that looks like it has not been used since you bought it, but they have no proof you did anything and you can claim that you first did a factory reset to see if it would fix the problem.
Just want to keep this thread going, as I am having the exact same issue as the OP as of today. It happened out of the blue, and I haven't flashed anything new to my phone since JI6 was released, other than that, it's just a stock, rooted phone.
Hoping someone has an idea, but I will likely get it replaced under warranty, since the GPS has never worked either.
damnit damnit damnit I really wish I had warranty.
Random question about clockword mod recoveries.
If I were to do a backup right now, and save that file to my computer, could I restore that file later on a different phone after I root my replacement?
I don't have that many mods flashed, and I know all of the apps can be synced, but still it would be sooo convenient .
I believe that is how it works, so yes. It should be no different then when you clone a hard drive to put the image on multiple computers for easy distribution.
It is (just like the cloning metaphor) hardware specific. Just like I could not purchase a upgrade computer and expect a cloned image to work, don't expect to create a Vibrant backup and restore it on a Captivate.
That said, you should be able to restore your backup to new (identical) hardware.
By the way, what is the warranty on these? I thought it was a year for defects. I didn't think the Vibrant had been around long enough yet for anyone to be off warranty.
it should be a year, but there was also the option for a purchased warranty. I did not purchase a warranty, so I should be good on just my manufacturer's defect warranty
Being discussed here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=817643
Stumbled upon this a bit ago, a company called Mobile Tech is offering an "unbricking" service on all versions of the Galaxy Tab. At the time of this writing they charge $50. I have not used this service, am not in any affiliated with this company and cannot vouch for their work, so beware. Just thought someone out there might use this when other options aren't available.
They have a nifty video up on youtube showing how they do it:
it will be a good help for those who brick their tab because they ain't follow the steps .. thanks for sharing this out
I can actually vouch third party for this service. Have had two friends use it and the device was returned within a few days. If I'm not mistaken, the guy lives in the southern US, but can arrange international he says.
Sent from my "better than an iPad" tab... Running Overcome GINGERBREAD!!!
This is cool, but I would recommend trying to go through Samsung first if you are still under warranty. I screwed up my primary bootloader and contacted them. They took care of shipping costs, fixed it up, and sent it back in about a week and a half. If Samsung hadn't fixed it I would defiantly have payed the $50 here though.
WOW, that seems like a lot of work for $50.
Thanks for the info, should I ever screw something up its nice to know there are people out there who can clean up my mess!
spacemoose1 said:
a company called Mobile Tech is offering an "unbricking" service on all versions of the Galaxy Tab.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi spacemoose1
Thanks for link and as always, thanks for honeycomb port. I would like to ascertain the definition of BRICK? with your help, if I may.
(disclaimer: pls forgive my wrong terms or exagerated explanation, but most importantly, pls correct me if I'm wrong)
BRICKed = software total lost, must use JTAG to force revive it, Samsung has it, or buy from web supplier around 300 USD ??? 500 USD ???
JTAG is a device to push software into all newly borned IC. I.E. when factory make IC, it's empty software inside, hence has a special device to push voltage into all sections of the IC, then force the code in.
Another term is ???CRASH??? or ???HANG???, (I don't know) anyway is not BRICKed, hence a reflash can recover it.
Samsung uses proprietary method a lot, not follow conventional, make usb driver very complex. USB driver install EXE around 15MB to 28MB depends on version, ALL work the same.
but, when the device = sgt7 in different state/condition, the driver must RE-ESTABLISH again, or else cannot work.
I.E.
state 1 = "OPERATIONAL"device in android operation, normal use, surf web, phone call etc
state 2 = "SLEEP" device powered off, show battery big icon charging when powered by charger
state 3 = RECOVERY mode
state 4 = DOWNLOAD mode - this is one of the way to FORCE flash to recover, as long as bootloader and something still intact
state 5 = PHONE-!-PC mode
stage 6 = "COMA" device powered off, NO show of battery big icon, even when charger supplied. Don't panic, let it charge fully 4 hours from 2 amperes supply, 10 hours from PC 500mA. It will start again !!!. Battery big icon will appear around 30% battery charged, I know because that's what I saw. I didn't check when it's in 10% or 20%. The 1st time I check was already 30% up from no-boot or no respone.
User need to plug device into PC during each of the state above at least once, in order for various flashing functions to work.
i.e. when it's a newly arrived device, usually install the usb driver 1st, with device state in android OS running properly, then plug in to USB and see "new device detected" installing, pls wait. Finished.
But when flashing via Odin using state 4 = DOWNLOAD mode, user may experience no connection, no COM3 or something. Because device must be unplugged in USB, power-up in state 4 = DOWNLOAD mode, plug in USB, "new device detected" installing = RE-ESTABLISH, done. UNPLUG USB, replug in usb, then COM3 appears FLASH will be succesfull.
same goes for other state.
p.s. many users reported BRICKed but then recovered WITHOUT JTAG is misleading beginners, hence should rename the term to ???CRASH??? or ???HANG???. although some previously use "SEMI-brick", which is acceptable.
stage 3 = ClockWorkMod flashing (super convenient, especially on the move without PC)
stage 4 = Odin / Heimdall both works (still convenient and easy )
stage 5 = Odin / Heimdall both works (still convenient and easy )
???CRASH??? or ???HANG??? or "SEMI-brick" is usually SUCCESFULLY recovered via restock+PIT
(final disclaimer, incase above is correct and help and is copied, pls correct whatever mistakes found, feel free.)
*** Thanks for all those who taught me my mistakes *** devs and fellow forumers
ManticoreX said:
This is cool, but I would recommend trying to go through Samsung first if you are still under warranty. I screwed up my primary bootloader and contacted them. They took care of shipping costs, fixed it up, and sent it back in about a week and a half. If Samsung hadn't fixed it I would defiantly have payed the $50 here though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, warranty repair is always a better choice. But sometimes you've already voided the warranty, lol.
I guess, if u change factory installed rom/kernel warranty gonna be history
thanx for the post ... it might gonna be the last resort...
cx5 said:
Hi spacemoose1
Thanks for link and as always, thanks for honeycomb port. I would like to ascertain the definition of BRICK? with your help, if I may.
(disclaimer: pls forgive my wrong terms or exagerated explanation, but most importantly, pls correct me if I'm wrong)
BRICKed = software total lost, must use JTAG to force revive it, Samsung has it, or buy from web supplier around 300 USD ??? 500 USD ???
JTAG is a device to push software into all newly borned IC. I.E. when factory make IC, it's empty software inside, hence has a special device to push voltage into all sections of the IC, then force the code in.
Another term is ???CRASH??? or ???HANG???, (I don't know) anyway is not BRICKed, hence a reflash can recover it.
Samsung uses proprietary method a lot, not follow conventional, make usb driver very complex. USB driver install EXE around 15MB to 28MB depends on version, ALL work the same.
but, when the device = sgt7 in different state/condition, the driver must RE-ESTABLISH again, or else cannot work.
I.E.
state 1 = "OPERATIONAL"device in android operation, normal use, surf web, phone call etc
state 2 = "SLEEP" device powered off, show battery big icon charging when powered by charger
state 3 = RECOVERY mode
state 4 = DOWNLOAD mode - this is one of the way to FORCE flash to recover, as long as bootloader and something still intact
state 5 = PHONE-!-PC mode
stage 6 = "COMA" device powered off, NO show of battery big icon, even when charger supplied. Don't panic, let it charge fully 4 hours from 2 amperes supply, 10 hours from PC 500mA. It will start again !!!. Battery big icon will appear around 30% battery charged, I know because that's what I saw. I didn't check when it's in 10% or 20%. The 1st time I check was already 30% up from no-boot or no respone.
User need to plug device into PC during each of the state above at least once, in order for various flashing functions to work.
i.e. when it's a newly arrived device, usually install the usb driver 1st, with device state in android OS running properly, then plug in to USB and see "new device detected" installing, pls wait. Finished.
But when flashing via Odin using state 4 = DOWNLOAD mode, user may experience no connection, no COM3 or something. Because device must be unplugged in USB, power-up in state 4 = DOWNLOAD mode, plug in USB, "new device detected" installing = RE-ESTABLISH, done. UNPLUG USB, replug in usb, then COM3 appears FLASH will be succesfull.
same goes for other state.
p.s. many users reported BRICKed but then recovered WITHOUT JTAG is misleading beginners, hence should rename the term to ???CRASH??? or ???HANG???. although some previously use "SEMI-brick", which is acceptable.
stage 3 = ClockWorkMod flashing (super convenient, especially on the move without PC)
stage 4 = Odin / Heimdall both works (still convenient and easy )
stage 5 = Odin / Heimdall both works (still convenient and easy )
???CRASH??? or ???HANG??? or "SEMI-brick" is usually SUCCESFULLY recovered via restock+PIT
(final disclaimer, incase above is correct and help and is copied, pls correct whatever mistakes found, feel free.)
*** Thanks for all those who taught me my mistakes *** devs and fellow forumers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I pretty much agree, but I might refine:
BRICK= Unit does not power up, visibly charge, reach a boot-screen of any kind including a service or "download" screen. A device in this state requires service from the manufacturer or an individual equipped with the proper tools. There is no other way to recover a device in this state.
SOFT-BRICK= Unit powers up, reaches a "download" or service screen, visibly charges but does not boot into an OS. Crashing, hanging etc. all apply here. It is easy to recover a device from this state so long as one has access to a firmware that was designed for the device and the ability to flash said firmware.
SEMI-BRICK= See soft-brick above
JTAG= Provides access to system hardware by applying the correct voltage to the correct pins in order to push software via an external program.
In regards to the usb drivers, there are only actually 4 states
1. Active userspace
2. Serial gadget mode
3. Recovery
4. USB storage mode
And there is a separate driver for each of these (except recovery) in the Samsung driver package that should install automatically when the device is plugged in during normal use on a stock rom, or with the installation package available on the web.
The rest of it you've got pretty much correct.
Money seems right, but the amount of work that guy has to go thru is amazing, so much to tare it apart, and reassemble. Then again when it is put back toether, he checks it, what if it did not take the fix... all over again.
Hardbricked Tab Save by Mobile Tech
I hardbricked my galaxy tab bought in Cambodia. My little brother open the tab trying to take the battery off and put it back on, thus void the warranty, found him on the Samsung vibrant forum, sent the tab to him got it back good as new. This person is professional, honest and good communication with his customers, you'll be happy with his work, if he can't fix it you get your money back (minus shipping and diagnosis)...Glad he is arround to help...
spacemoose1 said:
I pretty much agree, but I might refine:
BRICK= Unit does not power up, visibly charge, reach a boot-screen of any kind including a service or "download" screen. A device in this state requires service from the manufacturer or an individual equipped with the proper tools. There is no other way to recover a device in this state.
SOFT-BRICK= Unit powers up, reaches a "download" or service screen, visibly charges but does not boot into an OS. Crashing, hanging etc. all apply here. It is easy to recover a device from this state so long as one has access to a firmware that was designed for the device and the ability to flash said firmware.
SEMI-BRICK= See soft-brick above
JTAG= Provides access to system hardware by applying the correct voltage to the correct pins in order to push software via an external program.
In regards to the usb drivers, there are only actually 4 states
1. Active userspace
2. Serial gadget mode
3. Recovery
4. USB storage mode
And there is a separate driver for each of these (except recovery) in the Samsung driver package that should install automatically when the device is plugged in during normal use on a stock rom, or with the installation package available on the web.
The rest of it you've got pretty much correct.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should post this in Q/A thread on its own as its very helpful and maybe it will stop the 1% of people saying help my phone is bricked comments ... the other 99% don't read anyway otherwise they would discover their phone isn't bricked and if they read properly it would not have gotten to the state in the first place .. and no I never posted something like that myself >:¬}
but well done on this..
alexgogan said:
You should post this in Q/A thread on its own as its very helpful and maybe it will stop the 1% of people saying help my phone is bricked comments ... the other 99% don't read anyway otherwise they would discover their phone isn't bricked and if they read properly it would not have gotten to the state in the first place .. and no I never posted something like that myself >:¬}
but well done on this..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk
Nice find. For that amount of effort disassembling, and reviving, $50 is a very realistic price. I'll keep these guys in mind if I run into issues with my tab.
$50 for that much work is an absolute bargain! I wish I didn't live in a country where you get charged $200/hr for someone to pick their nose.
It's actually not that much more difficult than popping an OS install CD into a hosed computer and pressing 3 keys to let it run through the installation after flashing a corrupt motherboard BIOS. Yes, it takes familiarity with the software and hardware, but it's by no means a feat that requires a special skillset.
Granted, few people have JTAG stuff handy, so $50 is definitely worth it if you've hosed your device, but don't make it sound like he's sweating and coding the bootloader by hand, strenuously manipulating micro tools to disassemble the tablet and flipping DIP switches to restore the bootloader. You spend 5 minutes taking apart the tablet, you attach the JTAG cable, run the supplied software on your computer, and sit there recording the screen with your video recorder while the progressbar moves from 0 to 100.
Again, it's worth $50 simply because not everyone and their mother has JTAG hardware sitting around, but by no means is it hard. It's the same reason I can get away with charging $100 to clean viruses off of a computer. People either don't have the tools or don't know how to use them. That being said, I don't know a damn thing about using JTAG to restore a corrupt bootloader, nor do I have the right hardware, so I'd pay $50 if I were ever in the situation.
Edit: And yes, $100 for a virus clean is a lot, but people generally change their mind when I explain to them why they got viruses, as well as installing proper antivirus software and then instructing them on how to avoid infection in the future. I rarely get repeat business from the same customer but I get A LOT of referrals ;p They're happy paying that much when the person educates them instead of cleaning, not installing/explaining, then having to bring the computer in again two weeks later for another wallet-gouge, which most other computer 'repair people' gladly do over and over.
Everything in this world is rinse and repeat... The money comes from time spent learning to use the hardware properly, micro soldering skills (which isn't easy, no matter who you are), confidence enough to offer it as a service, not to mention the couple hundred bucks for the jtag software and hardware.
Now, the fact that if you have your device in a bricked state you likely voided the warranty, it's a 600 dollar brick if your samsung tech recognized it... 50 bucks is a steal to not deal with samsung anyway.
Try to be less pompous next time oh savoir of the hundred bone virus... Your poop stinks too, promise.
Sent from my "better than an iPad" tab running Overcome Hermes.
LycaonX said:
It's actually not that much more difficult than popping an OS install CD into a hosed computer and pressing 3 keys to let it run through the installation after flashing a corrupt motherboard BIOS. Yes, it takes familiarity with the software and hardware, but it's by no means a feat that requires a special skillset.
Granted, few people have JTAG stuff handy, so $50 is definitely worth it if you've hosed your device, but don't make it sound like he's sweating and coding the bootloader by hand, strenuously manipulating micro tools to disassemble the tablet and flipping DIP switches to restore the bootloader. You spend 5 minutes taking apart the tablet, you attach the JTAG cable, run the supplied software on your computer, and sit there recording the screen with your video recorder while the progressbar moves from 0 to 100.
Again, it's worth $50 simply because not everyone and their mother has JTAG hardware sitting around, but by no means is it hard. It's the same reason I can get away with charging $100 to clean viruses off of a computer. People either don't have the tools or don't know how to use them. That being said, I don't know a damn thing about using JTAG to restore a corrupt bootloader, nor do I have the right hardware, so I'd pay $50 if I were ever in the situation.
Edit: And yes, $100 for a virus clean is a lot, but people generally change their mind when I explain to them why they got viruses, as well as installing proper antivirus software and then instructing them on how to avoid infection in the future. I rarely get repeat business from the same customer but I get A LOT of referrals ;p They're happy paying that much when the person educates them instead of cleaning, not installing/explaining, then having to bring the computer in again two weeks later for another wallet-gouge, which most other computer 'repair people' gladly do over and over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got to call you out on this one. Mis-connecting or shorting any wires will lead to a damaged PCB and an un-resurrectable TAB. I'm also a Systems Admin for a living so I understand where you are coming from. You must realize that I solder at levels of .1mm in spacing on the Captivate, Vibrant and Nexus S. Electrical engineers and technicians have first hand talked with me about the difficulty of doing this and is NOT something that anyone can do. You'd think twice when you burn up a phone or two valued at $500 a pop trying to JTAG them. There is more skill involved than you would think. Not to mention the liability when dis-assembling the device. JTAG software is decent but it's not fully automated. There are TCK frequencies, RTCK frequencies different PBL partition sizes, full dcc loader read/writes and the requirement of EXACT voltage from an external power supply that are needed in MANY cases. Plus, there is little to no support when fixing a device. This means that if you can't figure it out, nobody else is going to for you. I'm not trying to brag but yet point out that this isn't like plugging in your phone for an ODIN flash. I've taken hundreds of hours of time and 1000's of dollars to create what I feel is the most trusted JTAG authority online ANYWHERE. I greatly appreciate having the opportunity to help the community and enthusiasts in this community. If this was as easy as you are claiming, you could get JTAG hardware and a manual at Best Buy. I have to say you put it best when you said you don't know anything about JTAG... Ok end of rant I was just a bit bothered by your post.
Ok with that being said, thanks for the personal testimonies and compliments. I will be here whenever anyone needs JTAG assistance in the future or around the forums to help answer Q&A when it doesn't require JTAG. Here is a Nexus S promo to realize how tiny some of these things are
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecp8jKmm48k
i would love to learn more on how to do stuff like this if i had moneyz. the .1mm ext.
not just for android but to make my own ish.
thanks for the awsome videos.
Thanks for the link, hope I won't need it ;-)
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
Hello to all good guys in xda-developers forum.
This is my very first post and I really feel desperate and need your kind help.
New Acer iconia with stock firmware 3.2.1 was nicely running this morning until I tried to root the device.It was supposed to be very simple process and not to get into dirty complicated procedures but the gingerbreak.apk did not work as expected so I tried alternative methods.What I read in various forums was that the gingerbreak application is not able to root the new firmwares version so I tried to downgrade the firmware to 3.0.1.
Downloaded the Acer stock recovery firmware EUUs_SBK_Acer_A501_0.017.01_PA_ATT.exe and attempted to flash onto my tablet .I think I did all necessary pre-installation checks.The process started but it stopped on 10 percent for about 30 minutes without any progress.Only Acer logo was displayed and 'entering file downloading mode' at the top of the screen.
After long time no change I finally gave up and unplugged the device from the USB port and restarted but nothing works since then.
1. No vibration on Start
2. Black screen
3. No new USB device appear on my PC
4. No sign of any activity other then power button light
I guess the original firmware was wiped but the new firmware was not flashed...for whatever reason...perhaps the worst scenario.
I will really appreciate If anybody may give me advice how to fix it.
So it turns on but does not display anything? Have you tried to hold the power button and volume down button at the same to when you turn it on to try to get it into recovery. Also there is a little reset button on the side you can try to push.
Sent from my A500 using xda premium
tried all those thinks.All kind of tricks I could find on the net.The problem is that the device is not showing up in the device manager e.g not detected as USB device of an y kind....
acera500 said:
tried all those thinks.All kind of tricks I could find on the net.The problem is that the device is not showing up in the device manager e.g not detected as USB device of an y kind....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try this thread. Look about halfway down, and you'll see almost the exact thing you did, and how this guy got it going.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1291747
Basically you can run a search for APX in the main forum threads and find some other posts, but hopefully this will get you going.
I pulled this from the general forum (eventually), but you can also search the Q&A main forum page as well, and the dev forum.
Another link;
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1255519&highlight=apx&page=2
If its new just return it to the store for another one.
Sent from my A500 using xda premium
Acer or the store did not brick it
i THINK If you mess with the rom on your tablet and... BRICK your device .. you should tough it out and fix yourself... Acer or the store is not responsible for this .But then you could also argue that if they had not locked the bootloader this type of bricking would not happen..
So i say go above and beyond to try to fix it from the help on here.. if that fails.. THEN Maybe exchange it.. Its wrong to brake something then expect someone else to foot the bill. Yes im to honest for my own good at times... Acer has also been known to repair .
If you bought a extra warranty all of the above in my book is out the window.. Make them replace it ..
GIGGLES..
Good luck on getting it repaired ..and be more careful next time..
Piece of cake to fix if you kept you USB serial number (from the downgrade tool)???
===== If you have your USB serial number ====================
1. Lets assume you know your USB serial number. If not, then you might be able to get it from your registry.
2. Download my flashing tool at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=20680452&postcount=137
a. Open up the readme.pdf for the instructions on how to flash
3. KEEP your acer unplugged and run the program
4. The program will install the APX flash drivers and will tell you to plug in the USB. Ignore this step. It will not work. In the instructions skip steps 3, 8, 9, 10.
5. Eventually the flashing tool will timeout because you do NOT have the tablet connected. It will then display a message box telling you how to use a paperclip and the power button to get you into APX mode. THIS IS THE secret to getting the tool to flash your ACER. However, once you get it into APX mode you will need your USB serial number (without it, you are fubar).
a. Plug in the tablet to your computer with the USB and paperclip yourself to fastboot.
6. Now in step 11, enter your USB serial number
7. Now just follow the rest of the instructions.
====== NO USB Serial number ==========
If you do not have your USB serial number than you are going to be out of luck, unless you have ever connected the device to your computer. If you did, then your registry will have a history containing your serial number.
Google usbdeview tool and download it. This will show the serial number of any USB device you've connected to your computer.
===== No Serial number, never connected it, what to do ==========
If you have no serial number and cannot get it, then hopefully you can get to recovery mode (power & volume) and flash using a signed update.zip from ACER. Download one of the update.zip's and put it on your external SDCard and then boot to recovery.
=== Bricked and No serial number, never connected, and you fubar'ed the recovery image ===
If you never connected your table to the USB and your computer to get the USB serial number then you are NOT going to be able to flash it to fix it.
If you fubar'ed the recovery image then you won't be able to get into recovery to run the ACER update zip.
At this point, you can still get your tablet into APX fastboot mode using a paperclip and the power button. But I know of NO way to flash it without the USB serial number and I know noway to get the USB serial number from the APX driver. I've tried and looked at getting the serial number from just APX mode, but I cannot determine how to get it. Someone out there might know.
Hope this helps,
TD
Your CPUID can also be found in the uid.txt file in your cwm backup folder - /mnt/external_sd/clockworkmod/backup/ - just remember to drop the 0x when you need to enter it
erica_renee said:
i THINK If you mess with the rom on your tablet and... BRICK your device .. you should tough it out and fix yourself... Acer or the store is not responsible for this .But then you could also argue that if they had not locked the bootloader this type of bricking would not happen..
So i say go above and beyond to try to fix it from the help on here.. if that fails.. THEN Maybe exchange it.. Its wrong to brake something then expect someone else to foot the bill. Yes im to honest for my own good at times... Acer has also been known to repair .
If you bought a extra warranty all of the above in my book is out the window.. Make them replace it ..
GIGGLES..
Good luck on getting it repaired ..and be more careful next time..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly if more people returned bricked phones/tablets etc... they would quit locking them down... the you broke it you fix it because they want to keep people from doing things they should be able to do with THEIR system they bought... In other words I completely don't agree with this at all.. If everything was unlocked and such then I would support the you fix it, but then again we wouldn't be running into these issues now would we. But then again Most people need people to babysit them and tell them what they can and can't do with what they own..
wade7919 said:
Honestly if more people returned bricked phones/tablets etc... they would quit locking them down... the you broke it you fix it because they want to keep people from doing things they should be able to do with THEIR system they bought... In other words I completely don't agree with this at all.. If everything was unlocked and such then I would support the you fix it, but then again we wouldn't be running into these issues now would we. But then again Most people need people to babysit them and tell them what they can and can't do with what they own..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@wade7919. You clearly have never worked in IT support on a hardware level.
Or maybe, I am barking up the wrong panty-leg?
If you bought a high dollar corvette, GM will support it. If you add an aftermarket chip, and your engine blows, do you expect GM to fix it? No. I wouldn't expect it either. Not their problem. Just because you can add a chip, doesn't mean you should do it.
That's why they try to lock bootloaders. To prevent users from doing things they shouldn't. Unlock them, and it opens a whole world of issues based on "open source". God help us if they unlock bootloaders.....
Not sure what you are getting at. I am under the belief, if you broke it, you fix it. Take responsibility for one's own actions. Shouldn't take the panzy pussyass way (no offence Erica and werecaltf), and return it for replacement. Suck it up, and learn from experience. Otherwise, the next device, you'll do the same stupid thing again.
I like things the way they are. Difficult, but not impossible. That separates the people with balls (again Erica and wercatlf, no offense), from the sheep.
But if you fubar the device, own up to it, and fix it. Don't pawn it off to somebody else (return it). And if you don't have the brain cells to have a backup plan before you start... Well, don't shed tears over it. Own up, throw the testosterone in the garbage disposal, and fix it.
Somebody give me a zanex...
And people, stop using Gingerbreak!!!!!!
Why locking a bootloader will cost ACER billions
Moscow and wade7919, you both make good arguments.
But it is what point of view you're coming form. If I bought a car and changed the RIM's on all 4 wheels and the engine blew up, would GM refuse to honor the warranty?
However, if I put jet fuel and alcohol in for gasoline and blew the engine why would they honor the warranty?
So, the question here is does rooting a device cause actual damage to the device thereby preventing rooting saves them warranty issues? Or is the device also considered to include the software and is covered under warranty?
I'm not taking sides here, but you both are making very good points but with different examples at different points of view.
So, lets look at other items and see if we can draw a parallel. If I buy a brand new Dell computer and send it in for Warranty and there is nothing wrong with the hardware they charge me (correct?). So if I fubar the OS or load something that caused the damage I pay for it or fix it. If there is actually a hardware failure then they cover it under warranty.
So, why does an Android MFG take the warranty one step further and include the OS and take steps to lock it so you cannot change it? Well, this is because nobody owns the OS (it's open source) therefore they take ownership of the build. Because there's no Microsoft to blame, they lock the software and consider it to be part of the overall device (Apple claimed this in their lawsuit). So, in the MFG's mind, there is no difference from the screen, keyboard, or the firmware & software.
So the question is what do you think should be covered under warranty? Most people think it should be just the hardware like a PC. Others see the whole device which includes the OS.
My point of view:
What follows is my rant and my opinion (you are warned )
In my opinion, I had NO problem until they decided to lock the bootloader. I have no problem with them claiming warranty from A-Z and if I change anything they won't warranty it. No problem, I understand that and accept full responsibility. But by ACER locking the bootloader they went too far.
To me this would be like GM welding the hood shut on my car. Better yet, it would be like me waking up one morning and opening my garage to get in my car and discover that during the night GM welded the hood shut. This, in my opinion, is illegal. Matter of fact, in my opinion, it violates US Federal hacking laws because they enter a system and destroyed data. I eventually think OEM's will get a class action suit filed on them for this.
Secondly, Windows 8 is going to be the game changer. OEM's can now make a hardware device and sit behind only warranting the hardware. You have a problem with the OS, call MS. Also, there is a HUGE (I mean HUGE). Did I mention HUGE, demand for tablets in business. Businesses will NOT put a device that has all these consumer games and social networking loaded into the workforce. There are billions in business applications that can be made, but you cannot sell them if they only run on a tablet that cannot have games removed etc.
Example might help: Medical field <- Think of all the applications a tablet can be used to save costs in hospitals. Do your really want your doctor or nurse etc using this tablet on facebook? Insurance company's, law firms, retailers, traveling sales, etc etc (Government). The list goes on.
Developers will see this huge opportunity and will write applications because they can sell them to A-Z and the business buying them will buy them because they can remove facebook and gmail from their company owned tablets. Now, as more and more developers move to Windows they'll drop Android. Want another example, read about Netflix and the issues they have had supporting a fragmented Android OS. So, business applications will move to Windows, but you might say so what, the consumer market is still there. True, but all you need is one killer application that everyone will want and for that to only be on Windows 8. Want some examples, here's my list, NFL (or sports), Netflix, Skype (gee owned by MS now isn't it?), or something new.
Bottom-line is this, if ACER and the others want to lock their bootloaders then they have just taken themselves out of the game for any business sales. Can you imagine walking into a boardroom showing the Government how your new VA application will save the VA Hospitals millions next year alone and improve veterans healthcare. Your application runs on any HC Android tablet. Everything is smoking, going great, as you hand your tablets, ACER a500', around the room. They are loving it. You just hit 'pay-dirt', then someone says hey I see these ACER's have gmail, facebook, blah blah. We cannot have government employees using tablets with those applications loaded, your installer removes them doesn't it? Silence enters the room, all eyes are focused on you. Your mind see millions escaping which were just within your grasp, you pause, you think, and you say YES General as you grab your Motorola Xoom and say 'that's why we recommend you buy nothing but Motorola.'. ACER just kissed millions in sales goodbye (oh and this is a true story).
i do believe acer should lock the bootloader on there devices.
However thee are things I would be doing with my tab if it were not locked.
Acer should give us the ability to flash the bootloader and not use the proprietary software. Lock that software to there bootloader.for there protections.
Give us a wway to unlock it..AT OUR OWN RISK..
So it should be locked but have a way to unlock it with the end user understanding they are totally on there own ..
I would be OK with voiding my warranty.
@Dean,
"So if I fubar the OS or load something that caused the damage I pay for it or fix it. If there is actually a hardware failure then they cover it under warranty."
Yes, that is true. Bootloaders are locked, to prevent completely stupid idiots, from doing things they absolutely no idea what the sam hell they are doing.
The issue is, should we be able to return a device, after we fubarred it? Against warranty? To say, Hey, your weakness allowed me to do it.
Just because the ability to do it exists, and we can quote a thousand instances, It doesn't mean we should, and to shirk responsibility. And pass it off to the main individual.
The fact is, the policies and regulations are there, and we should abide. And if we don't, we have to own up and deal with it.
And if we don't, then we are no better than the low life of the world. The scum.
Moscow Desire said:
@Dean,
"So if I fubar the OS or load something that caused the damage I pay for it or fix it. If there is actually a hardware failure then they cover it under warranty."
Yes, that is true. Bootloaders are locked, to prevent completely stupid idiots, from doing things they absolutely no idea what the sam hell they are doing.
The issue is, should we be able to return a device, after we fubarred it? Against warranty? To say, Hey, your weakness allowed me to do it.
Just because the ability to do it exists, and we can quote a thousand instances, It doesn't mean we should, and to shirk responsibility. And pass it off to the main individual.
The fact is, the policies and regulations are there, and we should abide. And if we don't, we have to own up and deal with it.
And if we don't, then we are no better than the low life of the world. The scum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very well put.I do know of a few people who have sent there device to acer after messing it up installing rom and telling acer.acer still fixed it free.
Honesty is always best
The evils of rooting
I'm still missing something here, why locking a bootloader does anything. Go get a Mortorola Xoom (not the FE) and you run the unlock OEM. It tells you that you are unlocking it. It tells you that you unlock it at your own risk. You cannot relock it until it is 100% back to stock. It asks you three times are you sure.
Locking the bootloader and treating everyone as an idiot is the problem. Just do what Motorola does, and stop being everybody's keeper. If they want to 'Police' this then you should have to call ACER and they fax you a form. You give DNA to prove who you are and fax it back. Then you go to a mandatory rooting class, that lasts for 5 days, where ACER preaches to you the sins of rooting. Then you have to take and pass a test. Then and only then, after passing the test you get a certificate. Then you call back, give them your certificate ID. Now they give you the secret key to unlock only your tablet.
That's the ticket,
TD
Bottom-line, it's not that they locked the boatloader, it's that you cannot unlock it. Like I said, go out to your driveway some morning and find that GM welded the hood to your car shut because they think you are stupid and shouldn't be opening the hood. Mind you that YESTERDAY, and at the time your bought it, it was not welded shut. That ladies and gentlemen is what ACER did with their OTA.
Moscow Desire said:
@wade7919. You clearly have never worked in IT support on a hardware level.
Or maybe, I am barking up the wrong panty-leg?
If you bought a high dollar corvette, GM will support it. If you add an aftermarket chip, and your engine blows, do you expect GM to fix it? No. I wouldn't expect it either. Not their problem. Just because you can add a chip, doesn't mean you should do it.
That's why they try to lock bootloaders. To prevent users from doing things they shouldn't. Unlock them, and it opens a whole world of issues based on "open source". God help us if they unlock bootloaders.....
Not sure what you are getting at. I am under the belief, if you broke it, you fix it. Take responsibility for one's own actions. Shouldn't take the panzy pussyass way (no offence Erica and werecaltf), and return it for replacement. Suck it up, and learn from experience. Otherwise, the next device, you'll do the same stupid thing again.
I like things the way they are. Difficult, but not impossible. That separates the people with balls (again Erica and wercatlf, no offense), from the sheep.
But if you fubar the device, own up to it, and fix it. Don't pawn it off to somebody else (return it). And if you don't have the brain cells to have a backup plan before you start... Well, don't shed tears over it. Own up, throw the testosterone in the garbage disposal, and fix it.
Somebody give me a zanex...
And people, stop using Gingerbreak!!!!!!
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Click to collapse
Okay comparing A Tablet or PHone to a car is stupid... Compare it to a Desktop Computer or Laptop... Companies do not lock them down so you can not use different OS's now do they.. They offer Backups to restore the system back to how it was with recovery partitions dont they? or they offer the choice to buy whatever OS you want to install correct? they don't limit you to say just Windows or *NIX do they? But we don't see laptops or desktops locked down to where you can't upgrade your system yourself or anything else... and any dumdass can do that without an issue most of the time. and there is more issues with viruses and crap on computers than phones or tablets...
So before you start making statements like compare this to that learn what to compare to first. If you mess something up on a hardware level sure pay for it.. if you mess something up on a software level because they decided to Babysit people its their fault. and if you think its the persons fault because they decided to open up a PRODUCT that they bought and own then you are one of the people that need babysitting and like everyone telling you what to do and how to do it. Go to an apple product then.
---------- Post added at 07:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:51 PM ----------
Also if you really brick your device you can always give
http://paranoidandroid.us an email to findout about getting it fixed
wade7919 said:
Okay comparing A Tablet or PHone to a car is stupid... Compare it to a Desktop Computer or Laptop... Companies do not lock them down so you can not use different OS's now do they.. They offer Backups to restore the system back to how it was with recovery partitions dont they? or they offer the choice to buy whatever OS you want to install correct? they don't limit you to say just Windows or *NIX do they? But we don't see laptops or desktops locked down to where you can't upgrade your system yourself or anything else... and any dumdass can do that without an issue most of the time. and there is more issues with viruses and crap on computers than phones or tablets...
So before you start making statements like compare this to that learn what to compare to first. If you mess something up on a hardware level sure pay for it.. if you mess something up on a software level because they decided to Babysit people its their fault. and if you think its the persons fault because they decided to open up a PRODUCT that they bought and own then you are one of the people that need babysitting and like everyone telling you what to do and how to do it. Go to an apple product then.
---------- Post added at 07:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:51 PM ----------
Also if you really brick your device you can always give
http://paranoidandroid.us an email to findout about getting it fixed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still like my car comparison
I make the car comparison to illustrate a point, because when I compare tablets to a PC everyone piles on *****ing about MS.
Bottom-line it doesn't matter if it's a blender or a PC. I own it, you own yours and I can do what I want with mine as you can with yours. Now, again I have a BIG(did i mention BIG issue with them changing it on me after I bought it.
To get back on topic, is the original poster still out there?? Has any of this helped? Are you still bricked?? Give us an update so we know if anything worked or you still need help.
The device was returned and accepted for replacement by the shop.Got new one and feel very nervous to start rooting procedure over.I was really lucky that they did not charge me anything but I really want to know what I did wrong so I don't brick my new device again.
I will provide further details soon about my computer OS and firewall settings and perhaps we may figure out what I did wrong.
To all good guys who send me them suggestions and solutions I wanna say big THANK YOU !!!
Your help is really priceless and thrilled me deeply. Will update topic soon
Happy New Yer to all Android fans!!!
So...Back on the subject.
My device was purchased in Japan and its current firmware version is
Acer_A500_7.009.03_AAP_CUS6JP
Q1. Can I flash US or World Wide firmware version on that device.
Q2. Does anybody know the Acer's ftp download server address for Japan
Q3. I think its a good idea to dump my original stock firmware but it seems there is no way doing that prior rooting.So..kinda stuck .any suggestions appreciated.
P.S. I'm thinking about flashing the latest Rooted rom 3.2.1 V3 by timmiDean (thanks for your hard work) I read the instructions very carefully and I think that everything will go smoothly but just in case (considering the specific Japanese firmware version)
would appreciate any further directions by the author.
Thanks