Samsung Driver Not Working? - Epic 4G General

I downloaded the only driver I could find for Samsung Phones 1.3.450.0 13.5 Mb and when I put my phone in debugging mode it has a new hardware icon in my task bar. Is there a newer version I should be using? Anyone else having these problems? I have tried installing it on 2 separate computers and still get the same problem. I am trying to root my phone and can't even get pass the first step! Please help!

Check in "General" - this is not really a development question - good luck!
BPF317 said:
I downloaded the only driver I could find for Samsung Phones 1.3.450.0 13.5 Mb and when I put my phone in debugging mode it has a new hardware icon in my task bar. Is there a newer version I should be using? Anyone else having these problems? I have tried installing it on 2 separate computers and still get the same problem. I am trying to root my phone and can't even get pass the first step! Please help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Try plugging the phone into the usb ports on your mobo. Other ports didn't work for me

Some people have trouble with front posts. In my case the cable sucks ass for anything besides charging and my kindle micro usb worked great.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

BPF317 said:
I downloaded the only driver I could find for Samsung Phones 1.3.450.0 13.5 Mb and when I put my phone in debugging mode it has a new hardware icon in my task bar. Is there a newer version I should be using? Anyone else having these problems? I have tried installing it on 2 separate computers and still get the same problem. I am trying to root my phone and can't even get pass the first step! Please help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I played around with drivers for a while, I finally I de-installed Doubletwist, I then could then mount my epic correctly.
Hopefully this helps

was using a poorly made usb cord
was rooting friends Epic came across this and wanted to mention to n e 1 that google sends over, it was actually a crap usb cord fyi cheers

Related

blackstone usb problems

hi, need help. posting from hd soi'll keepit short. phone won't connect via usb to laptop. keep getting usb device has malfinctioned.... any ideas? im away for the night and can't tether phone to laptop so no internet
jaxouk said:
hi, need help. posting from hd soi'll keepit short. phone won't connect via usb to laptop. keep getting usb device has malfinctioned.... any ideas? im away for the night and can't tether phone to laptop so no internet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
chnge the port or try a different cable..
MOD EDIT
Moved to general discussion as not related to rom development
cvchetan said:
chnge the port or try a different cable..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tried all that mate, ........ At least I learned to flash from the memory card last night LOL,......... seriously though think its broke, its doing the same on 3 different computers with different leads and a flashed a new rom too
Out of curiosity is it charging through usb? I understand you get a connection error but does the status light turn red to indicate it's charging?
Hey
Not sure if this is relevant.
Im using Windows 7 and found that when I plugged my device in, the driver would fail.
If you went START => Printers and Devices, you should see a "storage device" with an exclamation mark. If you right click properties and uninstall the driver, then unplug and plug the HD back in, it picks it up and works till you next remove the device.
This happened with me constantly till I flashed my phone with another ROM, now it seems to work fine???
Hope that helps??
I have exactly your same problem; I've tried with three different computeres running or XP or Vista without any luck; hard resetting my HD several times, changed ROM but with no luck at all; USB now seems to be able only to charge my device. Searching with google I saw some others had this problem but still was unable to solve that issue.
Hope someone will provide us the INSPIRATION to make it work again!
well sounds very much like it's a hardware problem
as in the type one can only hope to fix by replacing the usb connector from the pcb
This likely won't fix your problem, but it's still worth a shot. In the PC to USB menu (different places depending on ROM), I believe the default (especially in the new roms) is set to activesync. This might not play nice with certain PCs that don't have the drivers and maybe aren't allowed to dl new ones. So try to set that to the Hard Drive/mass storage option and see if it helps (no drivers necessary then).
Good luck
thanks but already tied BUT with no luck....dead....only charge available....I even tried deactivating the charge device when connected option, the option work but not the connection......
Ive never had this problem with my HD but have had the problem with many other USB devices, usually its caused by a corrupted USB Driver Stack, and the usual way to fix it is to uninstall the driver and reinstall it, if that dosnt work i would suggest this:
1) Plug in the HD
2) Find the malfunctioning driver and unisntall it
3) Uninstall ActiveSync
4) Install Active Sync
5) Try the HD again
However, because this is happening to multiple computers have you considered the fact that your port on the HD may be dirty, use a cotton swap with an alcohol based cleaner (you can use acetone, but be careful not to touch the plastic parts of your HD it will probably eat it).

[q] my fascinate will not connect to my pc

Okay so I am running windows 7 64bit and have the drivers for my phone and have read many threads and done everything I have read to the T its getting really frustrating and I am so annoyed I need help I never had this much problem with my Droid and I can't clockworkdmod recovery to work either I am rooted and have tried flashing it even done it twice in a row but nothing has worked to get it on there so I wanna try the Odin approach but I need to connect it to my comp first
Thank you for any help and I hope you guys can suggest a solution that will make this my favorite device
What is the error message you get?
may or may not help , but i was going crazy the other day because my windows 7 wouldnt read mine either. then i realized i was using the cable from my droid x . it fit , and it charged it , but for whatever reason would not relay data.
Make sure its the one for that phone . not for another or one from walmart. helped me at least .
jeffreymeyer99 said:
Okay so I am running windows 7 64bit and have the drivers for my phone and have read many threads and done everything I have read to the T its getting really frustrating and I am so annoyed I need help I never had this much problem with my Droid and I can't clockworkdmod recovery to work either I am rooted and have tried flashing it even done it twice in a row but nothing has worked to get it on there so I wanna try the Odin approach but I need to connect it to my comp first
Thank you for any help and I hope you guys can suggest a solution that will make this my favorite device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What exactly is going on when you plug in your phone?
You need to odin or redbend to install the hacked recovery for clockwork to work.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=788099
on the computer it says all the drivers are installed but when i connect the usb it says that no device is attached and its the cable that came with the box now something i just thought of is this is my third fascinate from verizon i was having issues with the hearing people and finally got one that worked and i connected and rooted both of those devices on this comp could it be that it wont read this one because it wants to read one of the previous devices if so how would i go about fixing that...thanks for all your help guy i really appreciate it i feel like a noob again coming from my flash happy days with my droid...and i wasn't trying to be sarcastic about the cord cause i thought of that too i just reread this and wanted to make sure i am showing gratitude and not seeming like an a**hole so thank u
i figured it out
i was using the same cable from my old fascinate with my new one and it wasnt detecting it on the comp so i got a usb from another on used it and worked like a champ i got clockwork woot woot thank u all
I am having a similar issue suddenly. My original cable began having intermittant connection problems while charging right after I spent 3 days charging my phone from my laptop due to a massive power outage. I recalibrated my battery stats but the physical connection from the cable is flaky during charging and now during data too. My laptop sees it as drive e but it wont let me access it, it tells me to insert a disk into drive e, however pdanet works fine. I did perform the hack to reprogram the 3g hotspot app to bypass the dun setting prior to this happening. Did qpst change something else or did mess something up? Any help is greatly appreciated.
Update: The intermittant connection from the cable seems to have corrupted the USB mass storage driver. Had to uninstall/reinstall it & everything worked. BTW the vzw store replaced my cable with a Motorola micro-usb and it works great; the plug end is about 1mm longer and it fits in the socket much better.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

[Q] Nexus 7 wont connect to usb, charge when on, but usb-otg works

Im aware that one or two other threads have been created with this same general question but one thing they didnt ask is what to do if you cant fix it?
As the thread topic states my Nexus 7 will not connect to my PC via USB (It is not seen at all, its not a driver issue I've tried). It will not charge when turned on but it was charging when turned off last night. When I checked this morning it said I had a full battery but after turning the tablet on it said I only had 60% battery. All the started happening after I charged it with a battery pack at work the other day because I forgot my charger at home (some people have had similar problems after using car chargers). It will let me connect a flash drive to it via USB-OTG. I have tried 3 different cables on 2 different PCs (One running Windows 7 and the other running Windows 8). I really dont know where to go for help anymore as Ive spent the past 2-3 days googling like a mad man trying to find an answer and noone seems to have one.
I would love for someone to really help me out and get some steps that could fix this, however, if its not fixable how do I RMA it? I cant lock the bootloader and I cant flash a factory image.
You say it is not a driver issue, but your symptoms indicate it is. I would start over with the removal and re-installation of the proper drivers.
Groid said:
You say it is not a driver issue, but your symptoms indicate it is. I would start over with the removal and re-installation of the proper drivers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've uninstalled them. Every time I go to manually install them the guides always say to find where the nexus is and my nexus never shows up. If it was drivers it would still charge when its on. So how can drivers cause the tablet not to charge from the ac adapter?
Try Wugfresh's program. I had issues w/o it.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
dennyjones said:
Try Wugfresh's program. I had issues w/o it.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats the toolkit I have installed. Its also the "guide" I am following when it comes to drivers. I tried to see if I could make the nexus connect to the pc while in fastboot and nothing happened then either. Everything he says to do involves the PC actually seeing the nexus :/
Ive changed it from mtp to ptp, toggled debugging, went to different back ups, flashed a new rom, etc etc. I really feel like Ive tried just about everything. Someone mentioned in one thread about some specific code in the nexus being wrong and possibly changing it could fix it but I do not know how I would go about doing that.
I also originally used the Wugfresh toolkit and had problems getting the drivers installed properly on Win7-64. Ultimately, I think I installed pda.net on my computer and on the N7 and was able to connect after that. Haven't had a problem connecting since. Re-read some of the Wugfresh posts about driver problems. You should be able to get it sorted out.
Groid said:
I also originally used the Wugfresh toolkit and had problems getting the drivers installed properly on Win7-64. Ultimately, I think I installed pda.net on my computer and on the N7 and was able to connect after that. Haven't had a problem connecting since. Re-read some of the Wugfresh posts about driver problems. You should be able to get it sorted out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sent you a PM but I really dont think this is an issue with drivers. I have been able to connect the N7 to my PC perfectly before the other day. Never a problem at all. Now I have uninstalled/reinstalled the drivers as best as I could (currently I have the samsung drivers because they are the only ones that will install without having to verify that the phone is connected via ADB and I had them left over from my Fiance's GNex so they have been here all along when the N7 was actually connecting).
The N7 is not connecting to the PC at all. It does not show up in device manager. You cannot make an ADB connection to it. It has already been rooted and it is running the latest version of Paranoid Android. On top of that the AC adapters will not charge the N7 while it is turned on. Its like the N7 turns away any usb connection other than a USB-OTG cable while it is on.
Also I really do appreciate the help. This has just been really frustrating for me.
Hello,
Since yesterday, I have exactly same issue with my Nexus 7 3g.
Everything is working perfectly but computer doesn't see Nexus at all (nothig works Bootloader, ADB, MTP,PTP).
Charging is fine (looks like), USB HDDs, pendrives are working as before.
Reinstaling drivers, changing to PTP, switchin on/off USB debugging didn't help.
Checked : other Nexus connects to the computer without problems, so its not drivers issue.
I assume it happened after Nexus was connected to my car charger.
Does anybody have solution/fix for that ?
Unfortunately my Nexus comes from USA, can I RMA it in Europe ?
I feel badly for everyone having these issues. I feel very lucky I'm not having them. It sounds as if the microusb port may have been altered/damaged by certain kinds of connections, like the battery pack or car charger. I don't know why this would happen and my own car charger (Moto oem for my Bionic) has worked fine on the N7. I did pick up the usb cable attached to my pc one day and created a static shock to the connector. Since then, that bank of 4 usb ports will not show either my N7 or bionic, but my usb mouse, keyboard, and printer work with them. The other bank still works, as does the pci port expansion card and my front ports. If I do have a glitch with the pc connection, I restart both the computer and the N7 and then it works. Sorry I don't have a solution.
I also assumed a damaged/fried USB post on the Nexus 7. There are 2 data lines and 2 power lines in the charging socket I think. If the power lines are damaged, usb otg may still be working. Its also tying in with the use of a power pack.
davidoff59 said:
I also assumed a damaged/fried USB post on the Nexus 7. There are 2 data lines and 2 power lines in the charging socket I think. If the power lines are damaged, usb otg may still be working. Its also tying in with the use of a power pack.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried switching between MTP and PTP and seeing if that works? If I used the PTP setting for the USB it shows up, I can then move files onto the PICTURE folder and once there move to another folder while using the Nexus.
-AkWingnut
Wow or strange should be more of the reply. I have done this before but it never worked. Thanks for the help. For anyone else needing help here is what I did. First opened the Nexus Tool Kit, then Full Driver Installation Guide, launched USBDeview, then - In particular look for devices with Vendor ID - "18d1" or... "04e8" - Simply right click these devices, and select the option to: - "Uninstall Selected Devices", final step unplugged the device and plugged it back in and it worked. Also MTP enabled USB Debug unchecked. Thanks again...
-AkWingnut
Tried this and haven't had any luck so far. I'm going to try pdanet or samsung drivers again later today and post results.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Have exactly the same trouble. I'm with you guys. USB host works, no reaction in device manager. Did your nexus was unlocked? Rooted?
xxut said:
Have exactly the same trouble. I'm with you guys. USB host works, no reaction in device manager. Did your nexus was unlocked? Rooted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bump!
I'm experiencing similar issues with my Nexus 5. This is the only thead I can find that has a similar problem. My Nexus 5 worked on SlimKat, I flashed stock L Preview, now my device won't charge when it is powered into the OS. Bootloader works fine and charges when turned off. I upgraded to 5.0 which came out today (Yay!) and the problem persists.
Have any of you lads or ladies had any updates?
nintennuendo said:
Bump!
I'm experiencing similar issues with my Nexus 5. This is the only thead I can find that has a similar problem. My Nexus 5 worked on SlimKat, I flashed stock L Preview, now my device won't charge when it is powered into the OS. Bootloader works fine and charges when turned off. I upgraded to 5.0 which came out today (Yay!) and the problem persists.
Have any of you lads or ladies had any updates?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my case it was a hardware trouble. Fixed by motherboard replacing in official service centre.

Transfer to pc via USB

Hey all-
Just got the Razr M and am loving it so far. On a side to note to this topic, I have to give a shout to the CyanogenMod team. I was using CM7 on my old Incredible and it really gave the phone new life. One of the reasons I picked the Motorola was the fact that they seemed to have the closest to 'stock' android out there. I have noticed that a lot of the things I loved about CM7 are included in the new JB operating system in the new Razr. I'm not as much of an expert at many of you, so I don't know who was talking to whom there, but it really seems like Android got the best bits of the CM7 release installed stock in my new phone. I'm sure I'll find gripes and get the urge to root this one after a while, but I had to give credit to the CM team for a great product.
Anyway, here's the reason for my post. I was stuck trying to transfer files between the phone and PC to no avail, much like many other people I came across on the net while researching the problem. I ran across a solution at another forum that worked for me (I don't know why, but there it is...). I went to the development tab and chose 'allow USB debugging' and 'allow mock locations'. For some reason that got the Motorola connect software (which I installed out of desperation and takes me to Verizon's unwanted backup website) to realize my phone was there, and also gave me full access to file transfers.
If this is old news, please disregard, but at the risk of sounding like a noob I'll post it in case it helps anyone else.
Cheers!
Ryan
I have tried that numerous times and even reinstalled the drivers a few times and my phone still won't show up in my computer, what os are you running? I'm running XP pro still no dice..
Sent from my rooted RAZR M via XDA app
Drivers
hellknight4206 said:
I have tried that numerous times and even reinstalled the drivers a few times and my phone still won't show up in my computer, what os are you running? I'm running XP pro still no dice..
Sent from my rooted RAZR M via XDA app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm running Vista 64 bit. You may mock me now!
I just let Motorola install the drivers, didn't go to the website and add extras or anything like that. Sorry about the issues, good luck!
Another thought?
You know, I forgot about this, but it bears mentioning. I have one USB port on my PC that operates at 1.1 speeds (or whatever it was before 2.0). It was one of those fancy cases where there were all kinds of extra goodies on it, but for some reason just this one lone port wouldn't take anything at 2.0 or better speeds for the life of me. When I plugged my data cable into that by accident, it timed out with an error. When I used a proper USB 2.0 port, everything went find\e. So, it may be a long shot, but you might want to check that you're on a fast USB port; otherwise, the timeout error sort of looks like a complete hang/crash...
I am pretty sure all my USB Ports are 2.0 I could be wrong tho, I installed the drivers with the software from the site that maybe my problem actually, I'll try again tonight
::Edit:: ok so I found out my USB Ports are not 2.0 I had my EVO 4g plugged in charging and when I got home my PC had a dialog stating that my device would perform better on a hi-speed USB port, that's a bummer cuz it is the only port I have
Sent from my rooted RAZR M via XDA app

My Galaxy S4 won't stay connected to the computer via USB

Hey all. Just got my Galaxy S4 today and I was loving everything about it until... right now. For some reason, the darn USB won't stay connected to the computer. It doesn't matter if it's simply plugged into the computer as an "installer" or as a media device. It'll constantly disconnect and reconnect itself, even when I'm not transferring any files.
It's not the my computer/USB ports, either, since I can transfer files between my HTC Thunderbolt and Nexus 7 fine. I've also tested 2 other USB cables and they all behave the same way.
Anyone know what's going on? Did I get a lemon?
No im in the same boat. Was trying ti connect in today. I reinstalled and un installed the drivers about 4 times. Tried un selecting usb debugging in developers menu. Installed kies and used the drivers from it still no good. Used 3 different usb leads. Phone will still charge from pc and even when im installing the drivers again and connect the phone it will say that your new device is ready to use but still cant access phone, it simply does not show up.
Wouldn mind was working 2 days ago fine. Same usb port and all. And the port is fine cause my old s3 still reads from the same port.
snwman said:
No im in the same boat. Was trying ti connect in today. I reinstalled and un installed the drivers about 4 times. Tried un selecting usb debugging in developers menu. Installed kies and used the drivers from it still no good. Used 3 different usb leads. Phone will still charge from pc and even when im installing the drivers again and connect the phone it will say that your new device is ready to use but still cant access phone, it simply does not show up.
Wouldn mind was working 2 days ago fine. Same usb port and all. And the port is fine cause my old s3 still reads from the same port.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same problem with me!
every thing ok with s3 but the problem only with s4
please we need help to solve this problem!
Same problem
I have also been dealing with this for a while now. I have Windows 7 64bit and I have reinstalled the drivers many times through Kies and manually. It seems like the problem is getting worse since initially I could do some file transfer through usb if i fiddled with the device (changing usb ports, unplugging it, etc). Now I am hard pressed to get it to show up on the computer through MTP at all.
This is quite annoying since I am developing an android app and I need a usb connection in order to test it. A fix would be awesome.
I just tested on my sister's laptop and it doesn't have this problem. I clicked around the phone, transferred a 10gb movie, and left it plugged in to see if there were any signs of disconnects. None whatsoever. Odd. Maybe Galaxy S4 just doesn't like something with our computers. This is quite annoying.
I have a fresh Windows 7 64-bit partition I installed the other day so I'll test it out on that and report the results later today.
retsnom said:
I just tested on my sister's laptop and it doesn't have this problem. I clicked around the phone, transferred a 10gb movie, and left it plugged in to see if there were any signs of disconnects. None whatsoever. Odd. Maybe Galaxy S4 just doesn't like something with our computers. This is quite annoying.
I have a fresh Windows 7 64-bit partition I installed the other day so I'll test it out on that and report the results later today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do same thing, it is worked in another computer.
I am already put fresh win 7 but still same problem..
im on xp(retro yeah ha ha) but just a pc i have for my phones and stuff. But i got it working again by flashing my firmware through odin and its back working. Im blaming when i rooted it that it broke but ill see if it happens again
edit: Can confirm pc is now picking up phone. I just flashed the most recent stock rom for my carrier through odin and as soon as it finished updating its prefect now. Might wait another while to root it now and wait for more devs to jump aboard for more roms
snwman said:
im on xp(retro yeah ha ha) but just a pc i have for my phones and stuff. But i got it working again by flashing my firmware through odin and its back working. Im blaming when i rooted it that it broke but ill see if it happens again
edit: Can confirm pc is now picking up phone. I just flashed the most recent stock rom for my carrier through odin and as soon as it finished updating its prefect now. Might wait another while to root it now and wait for more devs to jump aboard for more roms
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm on stock, no root.
Hi
I don't know if it may help but i noticed the usb doesn't work when the phone is locked.
I did check 'stay active while charging' in dev parameters and i never got disconnected again.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using xda app-developers app
Tested it out on a fresh copy of Windows 7 and it still continuously disconnect. What gives?
taargaa said:
Hi
I don't know if it may help but i noticed the usb doesn't work when the phone is locked.
I did check 'stay active while charging' in dev parameters and i never got disconnected again.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oops, missed your post. Unfortunately, it disconnects regardless of the phone's state.
My friend's S4 was doing the same thing on his desktop. Every time he would try to transfer pics the phone would disconnect after a few files.
I tried different things from reinstalling drivers to trying to only copy over a couple of files at a time, nothing worked.
Finally I plugged his phone into one of the back usb ports and transferred over 2gb with no problem and no disconnects since.
My guess is the S4 is a power hog and some usb ports just don't supply enough juice. Try plugging it in to a usb port that comes off a motherboard. Don't use the front ports or usb hubs. Hope this helps someone.
dirrtpoor said:
My friend's S4 was doing the same thing on his desktop. Every time he would try to transfer pics the phone would disconnect after a few files.
I tried different things from reinstalling drivers to trying to only copy over a couple of files at a time, nothing worked.
Finally I plugged his phone into one of the back usb ports and transferred over 2gb with no problem and no disconnects since.
My guess is the S4 is a power hog and some usb ports just don't supply enough juice. Try plugging it in to a usb port that comes off a motherboard. Don't use the front ports or usb hubs. Hope this helps someone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been trying all kinds of different combinations of USB leads, phone settings and ports all morning and was just about getting ready to start a new Olympic sport of S4 hurling when I came across this post and plugged my USB straight into the back of my machine and it finally works!! Thank you dirrtpoor for your input - a simple fix, but nevertheless it worked.:good:
I suppose it makes sense that a quad core 1.9Ghz phone would be a power hog.
It wouldn't work on my home PC whatever I tried. Front or back USB ports.
On my dads PC sometimes it would display OK and other times "usb device has malfunctioned" (didn't try the rear USB port)
On my work PC it works fine on the rear ports.
I was having the same problem a few days ago, but then I reformatted the SD card, now everything seems OK.
Even the stock gallery app works now...?!
Guys I was having the same problem. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why suddenly my S4 wasn't being recognized by my computer. I finally went into developer options and noticed a "USB Debugging - Debugging mode launches when USB is connected" was turned on. I de-selected that, connected my phone and now my computer recognizes it again. I hope that helps guys, it helped me.
Samsung S4 sync problem
mgrisan1 said:
Guys I was having the same problem. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why suddenly my S4 wasn't being recognized by my computer. I finally went into developer options and noticed a "USB Debugging - Debugging mode launches when USB is connected" was turned on. I de-selected that, connected my phone and now my computer recognizes it again. I hope that helps guys, it helped me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This may be laughably obvious but I'm a former Apple user, which has it's own dedicated USB connector, so I forget sometimes with the Samsung S4, which has a standard (looking) micro USB connector that I need a USB cable that is enabled for syncing as well as charging...not all USB cords with micro connectors on the phone end will carry the data because I imagine Samsung has made their phone's connector require a different wiring in the cable.
I was pulling my hair out yesterday trying to figure out why the computer wouldn't see the phone..then looked at the USB cable and realized I'd plugged a non-syncing cable in. I tried the cable that came with the phone and bingo, worked like it was supposed to.
Hope this helps, sometimes it's the little things we overlook that drive us nuts.
Any way to connect in master storage with out root.
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 4
Use a different usb cable and usb port. I know it sounds stupid but there has definitely been phantom problems which were solved this way, even with something as simple as adb commands
i have same problem. trying all the way but always with the same result...

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