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[highlight]Town Hall Meeting Scrapped due to Involved Parties Resolving their differences[/highlight]
To all (especially Feeyo and shenshang)
I don't really know what is going on in here, why you guys are fighting, or why you simply can't get along. I just deleted about 12 posts which had nothing more than constant flaming, finger pointing, and the such... all behaviors that are not allowed in XDA grounds (see rule 2).
Over the last week or so there have been constant comments, complains, and tons of issues coming from this section. There have been a bunch of moderators in here already, and it seems that this has no end in sight. As far as I am concerned, banning is a useful tool, which is better avoided if not absolutely needed... and I believe this to be the case.
Having said this, I would like to offer the following approach to solve this issue (and any other issues that you may have in your minds)... A Town Hall meeting type of thread, which will be grounds for discussion of current issues (you can see the thread here). I did this in the Hero CDMA section a few weeks ago and everything turned out rather well since people were able to talk and discuss issues in a civilized manner.
Here are the rules:
- The thread will only remain open for discussion for a certain period of time (I did the last one for 8 hours).
- No flaming/trolling/rudeness/cursing will be allowed.
- No banning will occur.
- Irrelevant posts will be automatically deleted.
- The thread will be heavily monitored by one or more moderators.
I will copy this post into a new thread and turn it into a poll under Hero G2 General and make a poll to see if you are all interested in doing this. If I get enough people agreeing, I will then schedule a time.
This is will be a final resource before banning begins. I am willing to put up the time if you guys are willing to cooperate.
Let me know what you all think.
My opinion
Better to keep the thread open for a specific rom version.
New versions new threads.
With this way problems with current version can be solved in its thread.
And for my point of view developers never must be banned or forced not to visit this forum.
They keep the keys to our problems and they are the life of this forum.
I have personally apologised to Feeyo for hi-jacking his thread. I have no issue with him directly, I just have an issue with the way he handled the situation earlier.
It's a joke that it's even come to this stage.
Leaving over this is an absolute over-reaction. Nobody wanted that. Nobody actually wanted you to take down your ROM at all. All that was requested was a thank you in the opening post. Instead, we got the over reaction of Feeyo removing his ROM, and claiming that it was the VillainROM team's fault.
As I said in Feeyo's thread, I have no problem with him at all, and welcome him as another developer in the community.
Before anyone starts - this is not about which ROM is better, and which thread has more views. Look at my relationship with Behnaam/RaiderX. Yes - they were competition, I suppose, but they are both friends of mine on GTalk. Many a time have we all helped one another with a ROM. If it was about jealousy - surely I'd be jealous of Behnaam? He's an excellent developer.
All I wanted from this whole situation is credit where it was due. That's a line of text in the post. Everything else could have remained the same and we could have moved on. I think the best thing to do is for Feeyo to come back to XDA and get over the situation. It's really not as big a deal as it has become. Calm down, think logically - and continue posting your ROMs.
egzthunder1 said:
Let me know what you all think.
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on my view as a developer (not rom, but other-code) and as htc rom user i think:
It's a pitty that users are allowed to accuse someone to be a thief w/o having any evidence (see this link)
I think XDA lost the best Hero ROM (personal opinion), if Feeyo stays out
Flamers who flame in other threads should be punished hard and immediately. I see (and saw) different Villain-Users (User!! not Devs) who flame regular on other ROM threads
And from a coder point of view: I personally give a sh*t of credits. Im coding in GPL and or BSD license, but honestly, the whole GPL-Credit thingy is just an egomaniacal habit. I therefore mostly release on a BSD-alike license (but, ya this is personal)
With a bit of "nice" attitude the VR (Dev) team (nprussel&co) had the chance to not escalate this whole mess. But im not 100% sure if this (ever) was their intention.
Fact is, I lost (probably) a ROM. The best one so far. And I (as a user) give a f*** about the reasons, who started or who's right or not.
Andro1d said:
on my view as a developer (not rom, but other-code) and as htc rom user i think:
It's a pitty that users are allowed to accuse someone to be a thief w/o having any evidence (see this link)
I think XDA lost the best Hero ROM (personal opinion), if Feeyo stays out
Flamers who flame in other threads should be punished hard and immediately. I see (and saw) different Villain-Users (User!! not Devs) who flame regular on other ROM threads
And from a coder point of view: I personally give a sh*t of credits. Im coding in GPL and or BSD license, but honestly, the whole GPL-Credit thingy is just an egomaniacal habit. I therefore mostly release on a BSD-alike license (but, ya this is personal)
With a bit of "nice" attitude the VR (Dev) team (nprussel&co) had the chance to not escalate this whole mess.
Fact is, I lost (probably) a ROM. The best one so far. And I (as a user) dont give a f*** who started or who's right or not.
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you cant see the reasons behind it because they were deleted(by egz i belive), not gonna start it up here wait for the proper thread, but there was villain stuff found in his rom.
This should have been resolved by PM. It really shouldn't need this, but apparently it does.
To answer this question - yes, I think the town hall thing would be a good idea. We're not out to burn Feeyo, or anyone else for that matter.
nprussell said:
This should have been resolved by PM. It really shouldn't need this, but apparently it does.
To answer this question - yes, I think the town hall thing would be a good idea. We're not out to burn Feeyo, or anyone else for that matter.
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Well feeyo abused that by posting your pm in public (without permission)
further to that I agree mainly with the above, all we asked was for credit, then Feeyo took upon himself to remove his own rom (and blamed it on villain) then he has taken the extreme step to remove himself from xda and again (placed the blame on villain) when really we have done nothing wrong at all.
Maybe some of us got a bit angry but nothing majorly bad was said, at least not from what I saw.
It just got way out of hand and was not helped when respective "fan boys" and I hate using that term but it fits now, got involved.
It should have ended when I tried to end it hours ago, then again when the mod stepped in.
There has always been a culture of sharing on here, and villain has always been party to that, it has only been recently that a few "devs" have for whatever reason stopped this, it might be due to ignorance, but in some is due to the fact they are glory hunters (not naming who it is but we all know! and its not feeyo!)
Piercy0812 said:
you cant see the reasons behind it because they were deleted(by egz i belive), not gonna start it up here wait for the proper thread, but there was villain stuff found in his rom.
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you (YOU personally) accused feeyo that he has stolen code. So YOU should have evidence that he had. Not others. And thats exactly what I wrote above.
"I heard there was smthing that was wrong". Bwa... either you have evidence, or, just keep your hands off of the keyboard. thx.
Nobody will burn Feeyo because he didn´t do anything wrong.
There is a misunderstanding point here.. why all devs can hack everything without crediting anyone.. i didn´t see any credits to the originals android/google developers neither for the htc devs in any post from any rom..
So what´s the big deal of using someone theme in a rom???
dna777 said:
Nobody will burn Feeyo because he didn´t do anything wrong.
There is a misunderstanding point here.. why all devs can hack everything without crediting anyone.. i didn´t see any credits to the originals android/google developers neither for the htc devs in any post from any rom..
So what´s the big deal of using someone theme in a rom???
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See this is where the biggest part of the missunderstanding has occured, we are not talking about a theme here!
Lennyuk said:
well feeyo abused that by posting your pm in public (without permission)
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question: how would you on such a "problem".
on public: everything is calm, and nice, and all VR people are such nice guys
on pm: bwa, you should be banned for that but if you go down on your knees, then maybe we'll see
Feeyo's public posting of the pm was not nice, and not ok. 100% ack. But, you know for sure that there wasn't more behind the scenes ?
Nobody knows (beside of the involved parties, and their pm inboxes). And tbh i dont think we ever know what exactly happened. It's just a pitty how this whole thing escalated.
Andro1d said:
question: how would you on such a "problem".
on public: everything is calm, and nice, and all VR people are such nice guys
on pm: bwa, you should be banned for that but if you go down on your knees, then maybe we'll see
Feeyo's public posting of the pm was not nice, and not ok. 100% ack. But, you know for sure that there wasn't more behind the scenes ?
Nobody knows (beside of the involved parties, and their pm inboxes). And tbh i dont think we ever know what exactly happened. It's just a pitty how this whole thing escalated.
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Well I posted all my exchange Pm'd with feeyo on the villain thread (after he gave me permission) and it showed that I was generally trying to sort it out, no anger or accusations just a friendly member of the community, he then gave a bad language response probably due to him talking to others that I didn't know about at that time.
Both parties are probably at fault here for why it escalated the way it did, we just now need to move on, learn from this so it does not happen again.
Andro1d said:
you (YOU personally) accused feeyo that he has stolen code. So YOU should have evidence that he had. Not others. And thats exactly what I wrote above.
"I heard there was smthing that was wrong". Bwa... either you have evidence, or, just keep your hands off of the keyboard. thx.
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lol. im not even gonna bother writing a response to your obvious flame (did you not read the rules above?). as said, ill wait for the thread.
i voted no, i personally am done with uber-lameness of xda. @mods: nice try, but if you always wait for the very last moment (or even the one after that) it will break eventually. you have successfully split the hero community in two or more groups, congratulations. i will stay in mine, which is villainrom.
since criticism is not really an option here i expect this comment to be deleted soon, goodbye everyone who decides to stay here. there were some nice moments, although not too many of them. guess that is the fate of public forums without proper moderation...
kendong2 said:
i voted no, i personally am done with uber-lameness of xda. @mods: nice try, but if you always wait for the very last moment (or even the one after that) it will break eventually. you have successfully split the hero community in two or more groups, congratulations. i will stay in mine, which is villainrom.
since criticism is not really an option here i expect this comment to be deleted soon, goodbye everyone who decides to stay here. there were some nice moments, although not too many of them. guess that is the fate of public forums without proper moderation...
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i know that feeling, but im still optimistic.
Thats a playschool here. Really funny.
Since feeyo starts his work with the excelent cronos rom ppl try to give feeyo a bash/clout.
Anybody looks inside his roms to find a wrong part.
That ppl should better look into his own roms to fix the own buggy and laggy roms.
No meeting is needed. Use your brains ppl!
hf
I think that none of this would have mattered if it wasn't for the fact that cronos had the best ROM. The whole thing smacks of jealousy to me.
I'm sure that cronos did pinch some stuff and/or vice versa, but such is the nature of hacking.
spence91 said:
I'm sure that cronos did pinch some stuff and/or vice versa, but such is the nature of hacking.
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What you said it´s so clear.. and NOBODY can argue with that.
So what the problem at all?
spence91 said:
did pinch some stuff and/or vice versa, but such is the nature of hacking.
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Giving credit is not gonna kill him.
devil-kin said:
Giving credit is not gonna kill him.
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Yeah, but I cannot see credits to Feeyo for the stuff Villain guys took out of one of his earlier ROMs, or did i miss something?
That theme thing everythings about isn't even working correctly and would have been removed due to public moan in the next Rom again anyways!
It's a serious question.
When I released the MghtyMax series of Sense ROMs, I made it a point not to ask for donations. Not just because the bulk of the framework of those ROMs were Maxisma's code, but because I wanted to freely take as much knowledge as I was giving to the community.
I knew there were users who would want to give, and even got IM's asking where to send money. I always instructed them to send that money to their local food bank or homeless shelter.
Now that Klick has been tarred, feathered, and carried out of town on a pike, I must ask:
Assuming for a moment that Klick was guilty of copying other people's code (and I'm certainly not saying he is guilty, especially since I have not properly reviewed any evidence against him) would anyone have said word one if he hadn't been including a donation link in his posts?
There are some very successful developers here that have tens of thousands of users of their ROMs. At least one likely has over 100k users. Those users add up to a lot of donations. We're not talking chicken scratch here, but the potential to generate some serious capitol.
As with any business venture, an individual or company will go to great lengths to defend their income stream. When you are talking about proprietary designs, and copyrighted intellectual property, it's only natural for the owner of said designs or property to defend their work from imitation, alteration, and redistribution under a different brand/name.
However, we're not talking about private intellectual property here, are we? No, we're talking about open source code, released by the Android Open Source Project under the Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 generic license.
Even if he was indeed guilty of using someone else's base code, there was no law broken. So why all the hubbub?
Honestly, I think it was money.
When there is the potential to make thousands, tens of thousands, or possibly even hundreds of thousands of dollars in "donations", people are going to become very possessive of their "market share".
If donations to developers didn't exist, my guess is none of this bickering would be happening at all. One developer could happily take another dev's code, modify it, re-release it, and another dev could come along and modify that.
Nobody would complain because there would be nothing to lose. Developers would be releasing code for the sole purpose of enhancing the development community, instead of lining their pockets with currency.
Why would anyone care, as long as the code was being enriched, and the end result was better programming for all? Wasn't this the point of open development?
I know this post will be very unpopular with some, but I think we've let the money changers overrun the temple. I think this trend of asking for donations will only slow the open development of code, and encourage those with large followings to do what ever it takes to crush perceived competition.
The above paragraph may have just made me the pariah of the entire development community, but I really don't give a damn. I honestly believe the community would be far better off without money being involved at all. It is because of this belief that I encourage the management of XDA to permanently ban all requests for donations, be they for ROM development, APP development, or any other purpose.
I firmly believe that by removing money from the equation, we will see a much more rich and diverse development community, with developers willing to enjoy an open exchange of ideas.
But, people like Cyanogen (and his team) spend hours working on the source code to imrpove it for users, everything they do is freely avalable and anyone can compile it, they just ask for donations.
Then you have another side of things where people spend hours hacking and mashing away at roms that were never meant to work on our devices, devoting hours to make them work and trying to get the best possible speed.
Then toy have the people who download a rom from elsewhere, change the build.prop, maybe theme it a little if they are bored, upload it elsewhere and say "Hey donate for my work on the rom" when the reality is its not their work, nor are they worth (most of the time) running.
I think people are complaining about people in the third group, not the first two.
I've been trying to figure out what all this craziness has been about in the dev forum. I literally only browse it for my own personal selfish reasons. To get the best roms and enjoy my G1.
At the end of the day Mghtyred is ultimately right. Regardless of stolen code or not, it's all free and open source. I could definitely understand how this could upset a lot of people, but that cracks me up. I'm going to go out on a really safe looking limb here and say that most people that frequent these forums are probably pirates and download stuff constantly. But when it comes to money in their own pockets then the situation change drastically. That kind of hypocrisy is disgusting.
Especially when it leads to someone getting booted over something ultimately so petty as far as the internet is concerned. Just a bunch of egos fighting over the spotlight. Which is ultimately pretty useless when in reality the vast majority of the people who actually use your roms don't care who made it, they just want the best one out there.
Isn't money always the downfall of everything? Unfortunately it looks like it's really starting to take it's toll on this community. I'm a very new Android user but since day one of coming to these forums I always knew something sinister was up but I just had no idea why.
Perusing most threads in the dev forum, especially on the first page of each thread, you end up seeing mostly character assassination attempts being made at the thread poster. "You didn't do this," "that isn't yours" but all those comments meant nothing to us new guys or the guys that only cared about the end product, the roms.
Basically what I'm saying is, internet, I love you but get over yourself.
I'm mostly a lurker, I don't post very much here, mostly due to the fact that I'm not an Android dev...
Having been member of various MOD communities since the late 90's, it's not just the donations/money that devs are worried about (though, donations/money IS a problem), it's all about bragging rights and "being known" or "popular" in the community. When someone spends any significant amount of time working on projects such as these, they want to be recognized within (and outside of) the community as the one(s) who brought the project to life... When someone downloads your work, makes a few insignificant changes and then releases it as his own work, the original dev(s) have the right to be angry... I'm not saying ALL devs are like this (many simply do not care to be known within the community, they just want to help), but many of them are.
I for one am thankful for all the hard work devs do, if it wasn't for them, we'd be stuck with the stock ROMs... Groups like Cyanogen's team are what a community should be, everyone putting their ideas/changes/fixes into 1 big pot to make the best ROMs possible, instead of having 20 different ROMs from various devs... Although yes, choice is good, it also limits the quality of the ROMs in question, if there was 3-4 core groups with 4-5 devs in each group all working together to bring excellent ROMs to the table, we'd be much better off.
It just seems that people don't get what a community is all about, it's to share ideas/code so we ALL benefit from it, devs and users alike.
Of course, this is just my humble opinion, different communities have different ideas/people who make these communities what they are.
Well, in my opinion Android is open-source.. Yes. But when people use skills that they have to improve on Android development for our older phone is just peachy.
The problem with King Klick is because he copied someone else's work while saying he made it. He did not give credit where it was due, he never finished a single ROM, basically he just downloaded a ROM, themed it and put his name on it.
Most people seem to think he is innocent as Android is open source, open source yes but, we have rights to those codes, then when people release their modified/hacked version its alright (open source affect). As I said above the problem begins when people take other people's work and label it as their own.
Blackman778g said:
The problem with King Klick is because he copied someone else's work while saying he made it. He did not give credit where it was due, he never finished a single ROM, basically he just downloaded a ROM, themed it and put his name on it.
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Really? Literally did nothing except rename it? Who's are they?
dezvous said:
Really? Literally did nothing except rename it? Who's are they?
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=7018713&postcount=45
md5sums from two different roms (one Kings) all he changed was the gapps and build.prop
vixsandlee said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=7018713&postcount=45
md5sums from two different roms (one Kings) all he changed was the gapps and build.prop
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So lets put this straight. First Jubeh the original ROM creator only compiled AOSP code to build a ROM. Jubeh had no problem with KingKlick using that ROM in the way he did. Thirdly KingKlick fixed the ROM so that it worked with the Mt3G and improved its speed. To say the renamed a zip is a regurgitation of a lie. The owner of the ROM made no complaints and a certain xda moderator had made up his mind before even contacting KingKlick. KingKlick did not copy anything from Cyanogen and team, the ROM had nothing to do with them. This is really about money and Firerat one of Cyanogens pet dogs admitted as much that his aim was to remove KingKlick from xda.
Maybe we should find out how much in donations Cyangen and co have received and whether or not if they are registered with the IRS as a non profit organisation.
People need to get off of their "Open Source" high horse if they don't understand the law.
AOSP is open source (at least most of it, there are still several necessary blobs), and the code there is freely available to anybody. However, the work produced from AOSP is anything but free.
Most of AOSP is released under a very permissive Apache 2.0 license. Under this license, any modification to the code is the property of the programmer to release as they wish. Had I wanted it that way, I could have released my whole build under a very mean license that would relentlessly pursue anybody who dared post even a single part of my release anywhere else. If one of those md5s matches, there'd be problem.
Also, the license allows me to release the rom without having to release the source (like the GPL does), so basically, Android is free and open source, but only referring to the code you download from AOSP, not any half-assed code that any random joe puts up online. So, from that standpoint, NO, ANDROID IS NOT OPEN SOURCE AND EVERYBODY'S PROPERTY.
Also, how can somebody let the "Open Source" and "people's property" and "law" words out of their mouths when they take no heed to the shameless stealing of google's, htc's, and qualcomm's (plus others') IP that's being pushed ON EVERY SINGLE ROM, WINMO, ANDROID, OR ANYTHING ELSE ON THIS WHOLE FORUM!!!!.
I dare anybody to show me their license to re-distribute all code from all involved companies.
"But, android is free, isn't it?"
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Guess what an android build with nothing but free parts would look like?
Remember those broken SDK builds where nothing worked, there was no radio, no gapps, no audio?
That's the current state of "open source"...
It has nothing to do with the state of the legality of distributions. In fact, the whole thing is ridiculous, for example, where a certain mod who I won't name went on a holy quest against QuickOffice calling it "warez" but shamelessly ignored that pretty much everything else on the Dream forum, hell, on the whole site, is nothing but a big stinking pile of warez. I still wonder what that one was about...
vixsandlee said:
But, people like Cyanogen (and his team) spend hours working on the source code to imrpove it for users, everything they do is freely avalable and anyone can compile it, they just ask for donations.
Then you have another side of things where people spend hours hacking and mashing away at roms that were never meant to work on our devices, devoting hours to make them work and trying to get the best possible speed.
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Here's the real problem with XDA; all those people thinking "Oh devs are some sort of god, they make the best things, we're not worthy, I'm dumb and I can't contribute, so I'll just send some money".
Guess what? Now you're really being stupid. Any dumb chap can put the effort, with enough dedication, to make their own personal builds. Most of us doing this are geeks, a lot of us are a-holes, and I could assure you that the vast majority of us could give two f**cks if that thing you flashed is boot-looping even though it worked for us. As far as we're concerned, you screwed up and should have read better.
We weren't born tied to a computer. We had to work for what we know, and if you people want to be a retard and give money for something easy, then that's up to you, but you all really have to stop that dumb attitude that "devs" are somehow better than you. Only difference is that this is where we decided to put our interest at.
Now, this brings me back to topic. So, what if some guy took my build. I could have done something about it. I certainly did have the legal ease to do so. Turns out, I don't give a rat's ass one way or the other. You people are paying too much attention to trivialities. You're trying to put this on some sort of clash of the giants where guys are either good guys or bad guys. You're judging a "dev"'s personal qualities based on the quality of their work. If they pull up an underhanded, kangilistic build, then you judge them.
I can assure you that the makers of the most "stable", most "fastest", most popular build out there are as much douchebags as you, me, or anybody else is.
Jubeh I don't think it is triva at all, what we actually have had here on xda is a vicious campaign to remove a developer from the xda community. Firerat as much as admitted it.
I have an mt3g and I use KingKlicks ROMs because they are the ones I prefer. Now Jubeh you say you don't give a rats arse about what KingKlick did and while I find it admirable KingKlick is still banned from xda and I cannot get his ROMs from this community.
If a group of developers have singled out another for exclusion then the next logical question is why? Despite an initial extremely public locking down of KingsKlicks threads and public condemnation without even contacting him asking for an explanation the moderators have gone all quiet not even mentioning the outcome. The fact that the initial reaction was infact a breach of their own rules and the clear insinuation about getting donations clearly shows what the real problem is. This forum should drop Android and go with the Apple platform instead though of course Steve Jobs would nip that in the butt. However this is about the spirit and ethos of Android which has been completely raped not just by a gang of developers but the moderators on this forum. What happened to being open, fair and inclusive?
Its around money and donations. Clearly these guys are not charities (and I have offered to donate to a developer who told me to give to a charity of his choice instead which I did) then they should be registered as non profit organisations. Where at least we can keep tabs on their tax returns to see what their turnover actually is.
It would be interesting to find out how much rom-devs (also file movers) *actually get* from donations. I suspect that it is quite little -- certainly not enough to quit their day job. Even CM still keeps a day job, and I *suspect* that he probably gets WAY more in donations than anyone else.
lbcoder said:
It would be interesting to find out how much rom-devs (also file movers) *actually get* from donations. I suspect that it is quite little -- certainly not enough to quit their day job. Even CM still keeps a day job, and I *suspect* that he probably gets WAY more in donations than anyone else.
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I know KingKlick did not get enough to purchase a nexus one yet that seemed enough to try and ban him from the xda and hence the wider Android ROM development community. I wonder if cyanogen is found to be using somebody elses work without accreditation will he be banned?
So clearly this whole mess is a convoluted and hypocritical one, with egos being the main driving force behind it all. We've got developers and moderators and both want to throw their weight around.
Then there are worthless people like me. Fun times had by all.
dezvous said:
So clearly this whole mess is a convoluted and hypocritical one, with egos being the main driving force behind it all. We've got developers and moderators and both want to throw their weight around.
Then there are worthless people like me. Fun times had by all.
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It isn't quite that.
There IS a question of INTEGRITY.... whether you make nothing, 1 cent, or 1000 dollars, misrepresenting someone else's work as your own is DISHONEST, and if you are someone liable to BE dishonest, is ripping off someone else's work the worst thing you are capable of?
So combine the dishonesty with an obvious sign that you are trying (not necessarily successfully) to profit off of someone else's work... well in the real world, that is called FRAUD and people go to PRISON for it (see "Conrad Black").
I thought we were mostly pissed because he only "deved" until he got enough money for a new phone, then just quit. When he needed the next new phone, here he comes again. Never really kept up with King and his shenanigans. Honestly, all his builds sucked to me. They all bootlooped if I didn't have apps2sd. Nty.
macsbac said:
I know KingKlick did not get enough to purchase a nexus one yet that seemed enough to try and ban him from the xda and hence the wider Android ROM development community. I wonder if cyanogen is found to be using somebody elses work without accreditation will he be banned?
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Yes, quit talking about the guy likes he's ****ing God. Excuse my french, but everyone acts like cyanogen fell from the sky on a golden comet from Mars. He's a great dev, no doubt, and I'm not bashing him. However, he is a human, you know that, right? If he ever stole source and claimed it as his, I'm sure the mods would do their job and the same thing would happen. However, that's not the case here and that argument of "if he did it i bet nothing would happen" should have died out in fourth third grade.
lbcoder said:
It isn't quite that.
There IS a question of INTEGRITY.... whether you make nothing, 1 cent, or 1000 dollars, misrepresenting someone else's work as your own is DISHONEST, and if you are someone liable to BE dishonest, is ripping off someone else's work the worst thing you are capable of?
So combine the dishonesty with an obvious sign that you are trying (not necessarily successfully) to profit off of someone else's work... well in the real world, that is called FRAUD and people go to PRISON for it (see "Conrad Black").
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This is complete and utter nonsense, what you really mean to say he did not credit Jebah who originally compiled the ROM. A guy who did not care what KingKlick did with his ROM. If you want integrity then the integrity of the site and its moderators have lost all of it. The rules say its for the two conflicting parties to sort the issue out and if unsuccessful then bring it to the mods attention. Neither of the parties had a problem or bone of contention and in fact the issue was raised by cyanogen and his bunch of cronies of which they had nothing to do with it. Not only that then then escalated their campaign of online bullying even in several posts singling KingKlick out for what they even admit flaming, severe unpleasant language with the aim of removing him from the XDA community. The xda moderator who originally responded did so by locking threads without contacting KingKlick for his side of the story, breaching their own rules. If moderators can't follow the rules then how do they expect anyone else too. All donations to KingKlick where for his hard work as in XDA rules not for any particular ROM. You want to talk about honesty or integrity teamdouchebags are a vile group of developers trying to monopolise the ROM development community. As for XDA they very publicly locked down kings threads and made a serious of accusations against him. Though as of yet they have not even posted the outcome of their decision or the rationale behind it. They have yet to react to at least breaches of 3 rules by teamdouchebags displaying extreme bias. Its a severe abuse of their position and while within their rights it certainly lacks integrity, honesty or the openness that open source should be.
A lot of interesting posts here, I'm enjoying this discussion. Glad I started it.
macsbac said:
This is complete and utter nonsense, what you really mean to say he did not credit Jebah who originally compiled the ROM. A guy who did not care what KingKlick did with his ROM. If you want integrity then the integrity of the site and its moderators have lost all of it. The rules say its for the two conflicting parties to sort the issue out and if unsuccessful then bring it to the mods attention. Neither of the parties had a problem or bone of contention and in fact the issue was raised by cyanogen and his bunch of cronies of which they had nothing to do with it. Not only that then then escalated their campaign of online bullying even in several posts singling KingKlick out for what they even admit flaming, severe unpleasant language with the aim of removing him from the XDA community. The xda moderator who originally responded did so by locking threads without contacting KingKlick for his side of the story, breaching their own rules. If moderators can't follow the rules then how do they expect anyone else too. All donations to KingKlick where for his hard work as in XDA rules not for any particular ROM. You want to talk about honesty or integrity teamdouchebags are a vile group of developers trying to monopolise the ROM development community. As for XDA they very publicly locked down kings threads and made a serious of accusations against him. Though as of yet they have not even posted the outcome of their decision or the rationale behind it. They have yet to react to at least breaches of 3 rules by teamdouchebags displaying extreme bias. Its a severe abuse of their position and while within their rights it certainly lacks integrity, honesty or the openness that open source should be.
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You really got the wrong end of the stick and ran with it. Calm down. KingKlick is no loss to this community, we can all use winzip.
macsbac said:
So lets put this straight. First Jubeh the original ROM creator only compiled AOSP code to build a ROM. Jubeh had no problem with KingKlick using that ROM in the way he did. Thirdly KingKlick fixed the ROM so that it worked with the Mt3G and improved its speed. To say the renamed a zip is a regurgitation of a lie. The owner of the ROM made no complaints and a certain xda moderator had made up his mind before even contacting KingKlick. KingKlick did not copy anything from Cyanogen and team, the ROM had nothing to do with them. This is really about money and Firerat one of Cyanogens pet dogs admitted as much that his aim was to remove KingKlick from xda.
Maybe we should find out how much in donations Cyangen and co have received and whether or not if they are registered with the IRS as a non profit organisation.
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Are you King Klicks lawyer or are you his B****??
I like how you are trying to accuse other modders and developers of the same thing, besides that you act like the Jubeh ROM is the whole reason of this situation. THERE ARE TONS OF ROMs THAT HE USED. Don't try accusing other people of the same thing just because your fake developer friend. got caught.
macsbac said:
Jubeh I don't think it is triva at all, what we actually have had here on xda is a vicious campaign to remove a developer from the xda community. Firerat as much as admitted it.
I have an mt3g and I use KingKlicks ROMs because they are the ones I prefer. Now Jubeh you say you don't give a rats arse about what KingKlick did and while I find it admirable KingKlick is still banned from xda and I cannot get his ROMs from this community.
If a group of developers have singled out another for exclusion then the next logical question is why? Despite an initial extremely public locking down of KingsKlicks threads and public condemnation without even contacting him asking for an explanation the moderators have gone all quiet not even mentioning the outcome. The fact that the initial reaction was infact a breach of their own rules and the clear insinuation about getting donations clearly shows what the real problem is. This forum should drop Android and go with the Apple platform instead though of course Steve Jobs would nip that in the butt. However this is about the spirit and ethos of Android which has been completely raped not just by a gang of developers but the moderators on this forum. What happened to being open, fair and inclusive?
Its around money and donations. Clearly these guys are not charities (and I have offered to donate to a developer who told me to give to a charity of his choice instead which I did) then they should be registered as non profit organisations. Where at least we can keep tabs on their tax returns to see what their turnover actually is.
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Why are you even on here if you can't accept the truth? The moderator even said he pm'ed King to make a public announcement to clearify the situation. King Klick was acting dumb.
Can we just move on?
Blackman778g said:
Are you King Klicks lawyer or are you his B****??
I like how you are trying to accuse other modders and developers of the same thing, besides that you act like the Jubeh ROM is the whole reason of this situation. THERE ARE TONS OF ROMs THAT HE USED. Don't try accusing other people of the same thing just because your fake developer friend. got caught.
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As for the reason, i have evidence he intentionally copied at least 2 Roms from respectable Android developers, renamed the and called them his own.
I dont have time, due too work, no internet at work
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Strange that because the moderators are only questioning two ROMs. The only one they mention is that of Jebah's and he has made his position quite clear repeatedly. Yes many, many ROMs from most developers do not credit others and its not a problem unless the creator of the original ROM complains as per rule 12.
Blackman778g said:
Why are you even on here if you can't accept the truth? The moderator even said he pm'ed King to make a public announcement to clearify the situation. King Klick was acting dumb.
Can we just move on?
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Really the truth
He isn't banned at the moment, for later today, will be sending him a PM to open a thread in PUBLIC and explain himself.
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Again KingKlick was clearly locked a day before any moderator even PM'd and the moderator in question Mikey1022 clearly let his intentions be known before KingKlick was asked to explain, before Jebah made any complaint and then made some bogus allegations about donations as an excuse to break the forums own rules.
Why public?? For the simple reason.........he kept shoving a donation link in every thread he created, unlike the other developers, he copy-catted from.
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Despite KingKlick being forced to put a donation link into every signature as defined in xda rules. Effectively Mikey1022 is punishing KingKlick here for following xda rules.
We can not/should not allow developers coping roms, collecting money on others hard work. As he calls it his own.
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Yet I want Mikey1022 to post a quote or link to where KingKlick called this ROM his own. Or where he asked for a donation for this ROM specifically. Somehow I think he will fail to respond to this post as the others when I asked the same questions.
A couple mods on here know about King and his crap he has been pulling off, so it's not a big surprise.
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Then the clear bias continues and the decision to ban KingKlick was pre-empted before any sort of truth was established. The main one being Jubah had no problem with KingKlick using his ROM and did not raise any concerns with an XDA moderator. As such no rule was broken and issue should have been dropped in lines with xda rules. Again who raised the complaint? nobody knows. For the extreme public castration of KingKlick Mikey1022 and his fellow mods have kept quiet, why have they not even told the community what KingKlicks punishment is or given any reason for it?
Do you think its a coincidence that this complaint was apparently raised when KingKlick refused to become butt buddies with cyanogen or be on "team douche". That cyanogen lost the bap with a post full of explicit language used in a direct insult in violation of xda rules. No public castration there though and I have to ask why? Then I can ask why some of cyanogens dogs of can admit to starting flame wars directed a KingKlick for a sustained period of time and yet this clear violation of rules led to no public castration. How further after 3 days of flaming and direct insults firerat even as good as admits his aim is to remove KingKlick from the xda community yet again no public castration there.
These people say KingKlicks ROMs are just renamed zips that's ok but as a 32b owner and constant ROM flasher why do KingKlicks roms always run better on my device than the others.
Its almost unbelievable that a forum I have been following for a while now can allow a group of developers to exclude another developer from an open source project. Its much more vile than anything KingKlick has been accused of. The moderators of this forum should be hanging their heads in shame.
Looking for 1.2.0... I see activity in the thread at 2:40am but the sticky post goes to a shut down notice... anybody?
Mods locked it because he released 1.2.0 early to donators
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Maybe I should have donated... are we all mad about this or is this something that will go away soon?
Mods got mad that he was releasing to donators and they think he was asking for money for the ROM.
Flipz/Fresh does this for the Hero and the Evo which makes no sense..
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
So sad
threedfreek said:
Maybe I should have donated... are we all mad about this or is this something that will go away soon?
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Well, this is sad for a couple reasons.
1) This is an established developer, who never required anything for use of his roms, and had over 10 revisions located here. He *rewarded* his donators for supporting him. This is not to be confused with a *few* other rom chefs with no proven track record, not released anything to the board and asking for money for a rom. This dev is in a diffrent league and should be treated diffrently IMO.
2) He had alot of users using his roms, he had alot of support and Q&A that is all gone now, the thread is gone but people still use his roms and may want support or something to continue. I dont think making the thread *dissapear* is the correct action. It also insinuates Guilty before proven innocent as the dev is punished before things are worked out.
My 2 cents
I think the mods should explain themselves and see if the community sees any problems with schiz... I for one do not begrudge the guy for early release to donators... fact is this is the american way which I am proud to be a part of.
This is especially lame, because now I have no idea where the hell to get the thing. What if I WANT to donate? He's not charging for the ROM. He's just releasing early to donations.
brian_hoffman said:
Well, this is sad for a couple reasons.
1) This is an established developer, who never required anything for use of his roms, and had over 10 revisions located here. He *rewarded* his donators for supporting him. This is not to be confused with a *few* other rom chefs with no proven track record, not released anything to the board and asking for money for a rom. This dev is in a diffrent league and should be treated diffrently IMO.
2) He had alot of users using his roms, he had alot of support and Q&A that is all gone now, the thread is gone but people still use his roms and may want support or something to continue. I dont think making the thread *dissapear* is the correct action. It also insinuates Guilty before proven innocent as the dev is punished before things are worked out.
My 2 cents
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I agree. I have been using Schizo's rom (1.1.6 w/Mixup kernel) for a couple weeks now and was greatly looking forward to version 1.2. He has done the best on incorporating compatibility with different kernels as well as prompt support.
I think the community is owed an explanation and a way to contact Schizo to see his side of the story.
i agree... he has supported the rom, stayed up late to get out the newest version early and always said he was releasing it regually as well.....
His ROMs actually work and you all freaking delete his thread? What the heck is wrong with you all. Stomping on a DEV, this is like the crap Apple does. Totally Lame. You all need to to reinstate this guy. Folks in this community "donate" money to DEVs and to keeping this site up and running. If word gets out that MODs are deleting threads for pointless reasons then people are going to pull their money out of this site and will start to hurt then help XDA.
Put him back-online and get the MOD to explain his actions!
I agree.
The Epic needs Devs and he seemed like a good one.
I understand the mods hesitance for his methods, but they should lay down GROUND RULES if they think he did something wrong.
I'm fine with it being released early. Call it "beta testing" for those who donated. In fact, with many new ROMs I usually wait a few days in case there are bugs.
The mods should allow the donate early-beta test model, stating it must be released publicly within X days.
Those of us who had donated have received an email from schiz. He says hes trying to work it out with the mods. Hopefully theyll get it worked out, if not, he'll pop up on his own site.
I ran fresh for months on my hero, but i think his donators-get-it-first was based off his website, not xda. I guess because schiz stated that donators would get it early, he got in trouble. If the mods really want to stop this kind of thing, then ban any developer who links to a donation account. But they wont do that, and shouldnt, because devs do deserve donations. But i guess you better not point to the donate link, otherwised youre banned.
Sent from my Epic using XDA app.
I have the latest update and am unsure on installing it. I don't want to install something that I won't have any support for, this is ridiculous. He puts his time, energy and money into making a rom and releases it to some people who have given him donations because they liked his rom so much, nothing wrong with it in my opinion.
Schizo and I are going to be working on a site tonight, since he has the domain and the web space now, we are going to work something up.
Stay tuned. Epic Experience will be right back .
jirafabo said:
I guess because schiz stated that donators would get it early, he got in trouble.
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Like I said, he should offer exclusive "beta test" to people via their paypal e-mail addresses.
Then he can keep it off the forums, but still give reason to donate.
I've been on all sides of the equation (developer, donator, and leecher). I think it's fair. Just as long as he releases it, in full, to the leechers within X time. He seems like a quality developer.
Wtf schizo was an awesome dev. He was really dedicated. So what if he released them early to donators. Like someone else saidd, that's the american way. I expect to wait a little longer for something that's free. I understand completely.
I don't get why he was given the banhammer. Unless he said "you can't get 1.2 unless you donate." Then I don't see how it violates tos
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Bring him back, now please
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
phantomevo77 said:
Schizo and I are going to be working on a site tonight, since we has the domain and the web space now, we are going to work something up.
Stay tuned. Epic Experience will be right back .
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Whew, the start of this thread almost ruined my Friday. You guys rock!
viper134 said:
I have the latest update and am unsure on installing it. I don't want to install something that I won't have any support for, this is ridiculous. He puts his time, energy and money into making a rom and releases it to some people who have given him donations because they liked his rom so much, nothing wrong with it in my opinion.
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If you donated, you will continue to get support, don't worry, he isn't giving up just like that.
Epic Experience will continue to get support, so don't worry about that.
guess I don't like the phrase leecher... but I guess if I don't pay I get called names... while this thing is in hot dev I wait to find what I want to keep and what I will call quits on... when I find the "end" I donate... until then I would rather be called a tester... when things go wrong I explain what's going on that might be fixed... in that case I'm a tester... not a leecher... just sayin'
bring back the "greatest epic experience"
Bonsai team just released v4.0.0 based on EC05. That's awesome!!
The thread was shortly thereafter closed by scotsman with the folling message
Thread closed until it complies with forum rules.
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With all due respect to scotsman and the other mods (and much is due), this sort of moderation is very frustrating to the community, and sure to create more work and headaches for you guys than simply expending a tiny, miniscule bit of additional effort when you take actions like this:
Explain specifically what the non-compliance is/was.
No one probably would care in the case of the five billionth "Samsung sucks" thread. On a thread like the Bonsai release thread, however, or any similarly popular argulably important (to the community) thread, it is only prudent to be a bit more explanatory when such a severe action is taken.
I was able to successfully get the release, of course. That's not the issue. I have some comments I'd like to post; a few questions too. Failing to see what rule violation has taken place, after reading the thread, I'm left confused, frustrated, and (right or wrong) feeling abused by the moderator (mildly so, to be sure).
Second, there seems to be a catch-22 here: If the thread is non-compliant somehow, and has been closed until it can be made compliant, one is left wondering: How can that happen if the thread is closed?
Scotsman, please update your closure post to help the community better understand what is going on. Save yourself, and the community, some grief. The effort is less than it will take to reply to this thread.
From my understanding it is because you have to register on their site to download it.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Correct. Download links are not supposed to be posted on sites that require registration. Not to mention the method they do so acts more like a shopping cart/buying system than a download system. It gives a very bad image, and they need to rectify it.
I mean this sincerely, but wouldn't it have been easier to PM the moderator who closed this so that your concerns could be addressed correctly and efficiently?
Honestly I'm glad it was closed. And if you register for that website, you'll see it's money money money, donate here, give us that there... if you want money for it, fine. Sell it. I already have to register for enough crap, I don't need to register for anymore.
Scotsman, keep up the great work that you do!
kelmar13 said:
I mean this sincerely, but wouldn't it have been easier to PM the moderator who closed this so that your concerns could be addressed correctly and efficiently?
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No.
Further, the answers provided here would not have been available to the community. I would have had to post a thread anyway with the answer, hence "not easier".
You may disagree that this information justifies public airing. That's fair. We simply disagree with each other.
But the moderator already said that it wasn't in compliance with forum rules....
Oh well, I'm not worried about it....
Seems petty that XDA is so closed a forum, considering it supports Android, which is supposed to be open source
I "may" understand if it was linking to somewhere where you HAD to pay, but the website only required you to register, not pay.
Seems no one is "allowed" to provide helpful links to anywhere else, kinda sad for an "open source" website.
Actions like that by Mods devastate a community even worse then even the harshest of trolls
Just another example why XDA has the bad rep it does.
byersbw said:
Honestly I'm glad it was closed. And if you register for that website, you'll see it's money money money, donate here, give us that there... if you want money for it, fine. Sell it. I already have to register for enough crap, I don't need to register for anymore.
Scotsman, keep up the great work that you do!
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I completely understand your POV, and it has merit. I don't agree with it (I find it quite easy to spend maybe 30 seconds registering and clicking past the entreaties to donate).
If it violates the forum rules, they should be enforced. I have no problem with that.
What I do have a problem with is mysterious closures of threads. While some here are well-versed on the forum rules, most are not. And even those of us that have read through them in their entirety do not necessarily spot the reason for a closure.
When the specific reason can be so easily put in the closure post, and of course the mod that made the decision knows precisely why they are closing it, it simply is not reasonable to expect thousands of other members to have to go back and commit the equivalent of legal research in the forum rules to figure out what the mod could simply have articulated with a short sentence.
The latter would serve the community far better -- and isn't that a core responsibility of mods?
The forum has the rules it does, and frankly, I don't think the issue of the Bonsai team's approach here to distribution is worth arguing about. It would be an exercise in mental masturbation that would never come to any resolution. Some people are highly irritated by their approach to soliciting donations, some aren't bothered at all (me, for instance). Regardless, they should follow the rules when posting here.
None of that has anything to do with how moderators do their jobs. I have no particularly pointed criticism for scotsman, or any other mod w.r.t. to this issue. Rather, I am suggesting a way to better serve their "customers", and make their own job here easier. They can consider it, or ignore it.
dwallersv said:
(I find it quite easy to spend maybe 30 seconds registering and clicking past the entreaties to donate).
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For what it's worth, I had issues registering and actually getting to the download when I tested it. That has nothing to do with the merit of an off-site download or the need to register, of course.
kelmar13 said:
But the moderator already said that it wasn't in compliance with forum rules....
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An entirely informationless reason.
That's the reason that every closed thread gets closed. It isn't enlightening at all.
dwallersv said:
An entirely informationless reason.
That's the reason that every closed thread gets closed. It isn't enlightening at all.
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Well, the Forum Rules state that
Forum Rules said:
Off-site downloads from sites requiring registration are NOT encouraged but may be permitted if the following conditions are met:
A) the site belongs to a member of XDA-Developers with at least 1500 posts and 2 years membership who actively maintains XDA-Developers' support thread(s) / posts, related to the download,
B) the site is a relatively small personal website without commercial advertising/links (i.e. not a competitor forum-based site with purposes and aims similar to those of XDA-Developers.com.)
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It appears as though Mammon doesn't have 1500 posts which would make him in violation of the rules and thus the reason for his thread being closed.
I'm sure that all of this was explained to him via PM though.
the real issue here is that people with issues can't post them now. but i gotta agree, while registering wasn't that much of a hassle, try downloading the thing from your phone, you gotta go through 16 prompts and 666 other things, speak to satan, make sure jesus is on your side and then you can finally download it. thats a lot of hassle from a phone browser. or you can download it to your computer. connect your phone, speak to satan, make sure jesus is on your side and maybe the computer will decide it llikes the phone enough to show the drive where you can copy it.
but I can go to ACS, click download and have it on my phone in 2 seconds.
I do agree that forums shouldn't get closed like this without explanation, but we saw the same thing with epic experience and frankly usually the quality gets worse not better once this starts to happen. With Epic experience, the rom went from superstable to so buggy it was unusable and the heads started to get quite swelled.
robl45 said:
the real issue here is that people with issues can't post them now. but i gotta agree, while registering wasn't that much of a hassle, try downloading the thing from your phone, you gotta go through 16 prompts and 666 other things, speak to satan, make sure jesus is on your side and then you can finally download it. thats a lot of hassle from a phone browser.
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You're problem, obviously, clearly is that you are not already pre-qualified with Satan and Jesus, as I am, thereby supernaturally being silently led around 15 of the prompts and 665 of the links. Much like a VIP passing the line at a hot nightclub.
Go and register at http://SatanIsMyBud.com and http://JesusDigsMe.com, and you'll avoid these problems. Don't worry about the apparent conflict -- they're enemies, and don't share databases.
I do agree that forums shouldn't get closed like this without explanation, but we saw the same thing with epic experience and frankly usually the quality gets worse not better once this starts to happen. With Epic experience, the rom went from superstable to so buggy it was unusable and the heads started to get quite swelled.
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I understand. At the same time, this is all free, the "providers" are donating their time and effort to us "consumers", so a certain degree of forebearance seems appropriate, IMO.
This is all very personal and subjective, similar in many ways to one's musical tastes. There's no point in arguing "is not! is too!" over such things -- I really don't mind jumping through some hoops for a few minutes to get something awesome for free. But that's just me, and my personality. Others do, and I bear no criticism or ill-will for their perspective.
The one criticism I do have is for those that slag on the guys. If you were paying for a product/service, sure, you have some standing. However, if you're simply taking advantage of their donated work, you certainly have the option not to, and go somewhere else (like ACS, for example). There seem to me nothing good to be accomplished by anyone being so critical, and appearing like a selfish ingrate.
I'm curious to what happened to the noobnl thread where he I believe he called out mammon on the website stuff or something of that nature I didn't get to see his actual post cuz he edited it and today I can't find it anywhere.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Maybe its just me, but I really didn't need an explanation to figure it out.
Here are the relevant parts exactly how they appear on each of two bonsai threads that were closed:
Current Version Download Links(Please register in-order to download) : mod edit: links removed
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from:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=976864
and:
Please register in-order to download.
Download: mod edit: link removed
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from:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1001469
Hmm, I wonder why they were closed. Maybe I am just a master of deduction.
muyoso said:
Maybe its just me, but I really didn't need an explanation to figure it out.
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I'm sure it's not just you.
But then, I didn't, and I'm certain there are plenty of others like me too.
What I don't get is the (seeming) arrogance of some in the former camp that lack the basic civility to understand that both outcomes are entirely reasonable, and that intelligent, competent members of the community can arrive at either conclusion.
By "seeming arrogance" I refer to meaningless statements like, "Maybe it's just me", where the intended meaning is culturally well-established, and in my 49 years of life has never -- not once -- been said with any intent other than to denigrate others.
But then, maybe that's just me...
Mammon, Randy, et. al.: I have a suggestion for how to solve this problem.
Post a link to the Wiki, as you've done before, and then put the link to the "offending" site there, instead of a direct download.
I believe that would satisfy the Forum Rules, but of course defer to the moderators. Would any of them -- particularly scotsman -- care to weigh in?
What he needs to do is set it up like midnite rom. How he offers the rom on both sites and keeps the main support at his site and add ons. But that type of stuff irritates me. Just offer all of it here. I hate having to be redirected to another site.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
I was going to try midnight, but I couldn't even find the rom to download. direct downloads really are best, especially from the phone perspective.
jbadboy2007 said:
What he needs to do is set it up like midnite rom. How he offers the rom on both sites and keeps the main support at his site and add ons. But that type of stuff irritates me. Just offer all of it here. I hate having to be redirected to another site.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Here's my two cents on the issue.
I'm not privvy to all the "behind-the-scenes" info, but I have seen some crap in my time here on XDA, which has solely been in the EPIC community.
Not relevant in all cases, but for instance when BThomas was still kickin' around with Viper, he almost threw in the towel on numerous occasions after anonymous dev\mods with influence or power got butt-hurt and tried to get his work banned. That kind of crap is no doubt one reason why some devs have disappeared, not to mention whatever happened with some of the ACS devs.
No doubt people get all crazed with their interwebz power, get jealous, and try to throw some weight around. Maybe that works in the workforce when people get a paycheck, but the last thing someone wants is for morons to start complaining about how your volunteered time is hurting their ego.
...maybe we need to front the $$$ for a whaaambulance, might clean few things up around here.
I'm leaving here soon! .. But not all is devs crying over a thanks .. Some of us members are part of the reason too!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
dcowboys2184 said:
I'm leaving here soon! .. But not all is devs crying over a thanks .. Some of us members are part of the reason too!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
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Its not for a thanks, its for credit.
And a "thanks" is the least you can do to give back.
Sent from my SPH-D700
dcowboys2184 said:
I'm leaving here soon! .. But not all is devs crying over a thanks .. Some of us members are part of the reason too!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
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To be sure, for every one of us that supports by money or time, there are those that choose to piss and moan.
But as was said above, being butt-hurt has little to do with receiving a thanks but the opposite when a thanks is deserved...and also going to silly measures to satisfy your jealousy/ego.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
thanks to the name of the phone all news regarding it is instantly over-sensationalized..
EPIC dev fallout sounds pretty.. uh.. epic
Yeah, it is rather punny =D
Nothing against you MeetFace.. But don't you think we have enough threads about devs. It seems like every week after one falls off the frontpage a new one is started. Adding another one in the General section isn't going to do anything but make more people coming to this forum just move else where. If the Devs get into it with each other we should let them sort it out and not get involved. Besides the Evo section has always been worse than ours..
If had noticed/felt that I was being redundant or "preaching to the choir", I would withheld my remarks.
I don't check the forums as often as I used to, and I check the general section even less, so forgive my lack of noticing what apparently may be a problem. I was merely responding to an issue that was raised in a closed thread, felt like there were some words that needed to be said.
If you think my comments are wrong or misplaced...then you are naive, because I speak of real situations. I won't go into any more detail, but I will say this:
If you can't man up an be civilized, then you should keep your mouth shut, and regardless of your contributions, whether they be developing or support, you are doing a major disservice to a "community" when you try to tear people down in public, instead of trying to build them up.
It's really simple. Adhere to the GPL and the XDA rules against advertising other sites that require registration to download custom ROMS.
A "donation" to obtain access to GPL or similarly licensed code violates the GPL (or the respective license) and will get your ass sued by the FSF. Thusly, linking to a site that violates the law will land XDA in trouble.
RMS would **** bricks over what some of the devs here have done.
I get that, and for those situations, it overrides anything I said here in this thread.
But that's not the whole story in all situations...thus the thread I created.
MeetFace said:
I get that, and for those situations, it overrides anything I said here in this thread.
But that's not the whole story in all situations...thus the thread I created.
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Sorry, I wasn't replying to you. I just want to make it clear the reason why the mods/XDA has reacted to some devs the way they have. It's to cover their own asses from legal repercussions.
No hard feelings, just wanted to clarify that I wasn't implying the above was the case with those types of issues. Didn't mean to sound abrasive, gotta love voice-less text =]
But again, I do agree with, people should follow the rules, people should not take things so personally, and in and open source environment, people should get so selfish.
I fully agree with you. And the loss of emotion and everything else by using text-only is something that completely enrages me when I want to actually talk to my friends who live half-way around the world but they refuse to use webcams or even voice. I've just resorted to telling them to screw off unless they call or video-call me. Far too much meaning is lost otherwise and only causes trouble.
dcowboys2184 said:
I'm leaving here soon! .. But not all is devs crying over a thanks .. Some of us members are part of the reason too!
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You're right. It is some of the members too. The members that bash people because they ask a noob question and feel that they are so far above the person that they have to put them down. There's bullying in this forum and to the point where I've almost stepped in and said something in defense of the person. That kind of **** has no place here, just like the other crap doesnt either.
You'll like this:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/02/70179
I've read the actual study years back in one of my business classes back at the old University.
This is why you can't take things personally all the time...will save you some butt-hurt =D
I don't really have anything to add to this conversation, but I just wanted to say that "butt-hurt" is my new favorite internet phrase. That is all.
MeetFace said:
You'll like this:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/02/70179
I've read the actual study years back in one of my business classes back at the old University.
This is why you can't take things personally all the time...will save you some butt-hurt =D
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Or add in a " " and make someones day! Lol
Sent from my SPH-D700
djbacon06 said:
I don't really have anything to add to this conversation, but I just wanted to say that "butt-hurt" is my new favorite internet phrase. That is all.
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I'll have to admit, your appreciation of my usage of the phrase afforded me not a few audibly deep belly chuckles.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
I started a thread about this a while ago. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1002595
I have a slightly different take on all of this. While I'm glad that most of today's issues are resolved these problems will arise again. This whole thing went down today because someone complained about pieces and parts of a developers ROM. Then I got dragged into this because I use the Bonsai kernel that I made NO changes to. Apparently all I had to do was post a link to the Bonsai source code and the problem went away. There are not a lot of us left here in the Epic forums for various and often times preventable reasons.
There is to much inconsistency with how these forums are moderated. Is impaler gone now? I mean it's like one day everything is ok and then the next day it's a problem. In all fairness to the mods they are over worked and simply not paid. Perhaps, xda should think about paying these guys a little something for their efforts. Perhaps XDA is growing to fast for it's own good. I mean in my opinion is quality over quantity.
My other issue is the in-fighting. We have people here that live to make drama and start flame wars. I'm not singling anyone out on this but it happens and a lot more often in the past few weeks. I don't know why we don't focus more on purging the forums of problem people rather then productive developers that choose to venture away from xda. We also need to be very careful about publicly accusing people of being in violation of a GPL. Falsely accusing someone of something should not be taken lightly. All it serves to do is misinform the community and cause confusion for the users as to what really happened. Not to mention the damage done to someones reputation.
XDA would be nothing without the developers and users that make it up. I realize that XDA makes the rules and are well within their rights to do so. But sometimes some of these rules need to be revisited from time to time to make sure they are applicable especially when a site is growing as rapidly as XDA is.
This place used to be an escape for me. Something I enjoyed participating in but anymore it serves to cause more stress then it helps to manage. If we want this community to survive we ALL need to think about how we carry ourselves here and what kind of behavior and attitude we deem acceptable. I'm very frustrated with the direction this is all going in and I have really tried to keep us going in the right direction. We all play a part in the negativity and we ALL NEED to play a part in making things better.
For the record, I thought today was handled pretty well as far as transparency goes. So Thank You.
Threads like this need to go away. Drama explaining the drama. Wish the mods would just delete any drama threads here.