Database Users

A very important message to all Eris Users-PLEASE READ-

Hello Ladies and Gentleman,
[Dear XDA Mods: Please don't be greatly upset by this. The whole community at the Eris forums needs to know this, this has been going on to long as a PM battle or what not. I have reported him and sent several mods PM's about this]
At this point I don't even know where to start. This is a long story so I'll try to make is as short as I can.
Andrizoid is a fraud.
Thats all I can sum it up to.
It started a LONG time ago when he first tried to make forks of other peoples roms, claiming that he made fixes to them, and he posted it without the original author's content.
It all started here:
http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-eris/73681-evil-eris-2-0-oc-apps2sd-here.html
Yep, thats Evil Eris v2.0, a rom that I made.
Without asking, he decided to post a modified forked version of it and post it to AndroidForums.
It wasn't until AFTER he had done this was that he PM'd me.
I was quite annoyed, but I let it drop, and luckily so did he.
THEN, he tried to go for Senseable, a rom made by Jamezelle.
I warned Jamezelle, and luckily he was able to stop him in his tracks:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=6436078&postcount=215
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Then here comes the most recent problem.
Andrizoid was PM'ing DarchStar about porting CyanogenMod for the Eris.
Darchstar being the very nice person he was made it for him. According to Andrizoid, they made agreements: http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7281/74873154.png
DarchStar NEVER said he DIDN'T want to be credited.
At the time, Darchstar didn't know the controversy that this would bring.
Andrizoid started to lie to the public that HE was working on the fixes and that HE would release updates. I point to the first few posts in his thread as evidence :http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=687493
Andrizoid did not work on this at all. This is not his "hard work", it belongs to Darch.
Why would he be asking for donations if the work isn't his?
Well, if you don't believe me, he has even pointed out multiple time's he didn't work on this:
[From my inbox]: http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/4089/86218965.png
After he needed more help, he started to PM other people devs so that they could work on the problems with the rom for him.
Evidence[From SoCalSpecialist]: http://tinypaste.com/ce6bb0
This is during the time that he needed help on his rom. He still does!
He even came into the AndIRC chat room asking me and others for help.
He claims that Darch only made the initial port and that he has changes it SO much.ALL he has done is either take other people's boot.img [which I doubt he even knows how to open up and edit] or add Apps.
As a cyanogen rom, he isn't allowed to redistribute the google apps in them and he is not legally able to redistribute Dolphin Browser HD EVEN if its a free app, its not free to distribute. It's people like this that are getting a great developer like Cyanogen in such trouble.I feel, like many others, that he should not be supported in this community for the things he has done incorrectly.
Then, as Darch stated , Andrizoid started telling him about how rough his life is and that he needs all the money he can get and that he barely got donations.[Which I think everyone here can call bull on.]
He HAS gotten donations: http://i47.tinypic.com/33v1cgx.png
[This was a PM that was directed to the wrong person , we were lucky just to get it.]
I have formally confronted him before, he'd either ignore me about my warnings, or get all mad and upset about it.
If you think I'm lying, you can ask Darch, he feels the same way! Or even better join the AndIRC chat room and we will share you the whole thing.

Why doesn't Darch just release his own rom then? kinda like how he did with the GSM hero?....

I agree
Andrizoid, It is ILLEGAL to include the Google Experience in cyanongen rom ports. Cyanogen HIMSELF received a Cease & Desist letter from the lawyers of Google. What you are doing could cause trouble for more than just yourself.
I just wanted to post this to backup Frameworks claims, as they are just. Andrizoid is a shady character with questionable values. I hope through these posts we can help you to understand that and help Andrizoid to change his thieving ways.
Andrizoid, you had this coming for a long time sir.
I once asked Andrizoid to stop stealing people roms, and at the very least give the devs credit for the work he was stealing. Well, he get upset and reported me to af.com (for what i dont know). Here is his PM to me
From Andrizoid:
i did report you
thats what happens when your a ****.
and if your really going to try and be a hard ass i think ill just flood you with messages.
(Apparently I am a "****" for asking him to stop stealing other peoples roms?)
=========================================
And Here is the "warning" from af.com
From Trident:
You have received an infraction at Android Forums
Dear LexusBrian400,
You have received an infraction at Android Forums.
Reason: Disrespectful Posting
-------
Please remember to be respectful to other members at all times. Next time, you will receive a permanent ban.
-------
This infraction is worth 5 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire. Please review the rules thread before posting again:
Andrizoid, I know you could care less. But you need to stop misleading people like you do. In the beginning, I tried to help you, a lot. But now I regret it. You just cant get it through your head. STOP WALKING ALL OVER PEOPLE!
And now that I've learned that you are taking all of the donations, and not splitting them with darch (who really made the rom FOR YOU!), well... You're an even bigger jerk than I ever imagined. You've outdone yourself buddy. Bravo.
Have you noticed the Devs aren't too willing to give you help when you ask? Well these are the reasons why!
To the people running WW
-Stop donating to Andrizoid, he didn't do the dev work for it, and yet he STILL enjoys taking the credit.
-Go support a dev that does do the work themselves. You will get better roms, and better support with questions.

refthemc said:
Why doesn't Darch just release his own rom then? kinda like how he did with the GSM hero?....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because after the whole Froyo thing, people disliked him a bit.
So he didn't want to release it, being scared the whole thread would be full of "you're a troll". He is on our side now and most of us accept him in our community now thanks to how much he has helped

Haters make me famous
you all certainly put a lot of effort into making me look bad.
ee2 i did edit. and i apologized afterwards.
i did not post the edited senseable, i pmed jamezelle with the files for him to decide what to do with
whitewidow is a port done by darchstar, as i said many times in the post. the kernel is from kaos, the same kernel you are using.
i have been asking for help so I could do the work, ask around, i repeatedly told socalspecialist that i wanted to learn how to do the things he was helping me with.
i came to the irc to get HELP, not a fix. then i realized your a jackass and left, got it partially worked out on my own.
i wasnt complaining that life was hard and i need all the donations i can get lmfao
i have never asked for donations, but the link is there if they want to help out.
the google apps thing was pointed out to me by darchstar, ill be addressing it in the next release.
sorry you rambled on so much i forgot the rest

yes! darchstar didnt want to release it. for that reason he told me to release it with me name on it. thank you for backing me up on the framework.

5 dollar donation!
you guys really are making me famous.
darchstar would you like you split?

Andrizoid said:
Haters make me famous
you all certainly put a lot of effort into making me look bad.
ee2 i did edit. and i apologized afterwards.
i did not post the edited senseable, i pmed jamezelle with the files for him to decide what to do with
whitewidow is a port done by darchstar, as i said many times in the post. the kernel is from kaos, the same kernel you are using.
i have been asking for help so I could do the work, ask around, i repeatedly told socalspecialist that i wanted to learn how to do the things he was helping me with.
i came to the irc to get HELP, not a fix. then i realized your a jackass and left, got it partially worked out on my own.
i wasnt complaining that life was hard and i need all the donations i can get lmfao
i have never asked for donations, but the link is there if they want to help out.
the google apps thing was pointed out to me by darchstar, ill be addressing it in the next release.
sorry you rambled on so much i forgot the rest
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You did NOT apologize, you rudely posted things in reply to me.
You were ABOUT to release the as2d modification had jamezelle not said anything.You shouldn't release a rom if you don't know what you're doing AND Socal shouldn't have to write up something because you're to lazy to find it on google.You claim that Darch made the initial port and from there you made may changes, so that technically you could basically claim it as your own.Sorry doesn't work that way, you barely changed anything, congrats you can change a boot and add some apps, are you proud?
You can say whatever you'd like , but most things you type around here are huge lies.

Then Darch should absolutely release it. I have been trying his ROM out for the last day or so, completely under the assumption that this was his work for the most part and that he was updating to fix the bugs. This is very disappointing. I was hours away from giving a donation to Andrizoid for the work. I would much rather give my money (of which there isn't a ton of nowadays) to Darch just as I know when I give to Frame he appreciates it and is continually working to better his ROM's. If this is true and can be verified then he should be shut down now before he profits one more penny fraudulently. I would like to say he should weigh in here but the testimonials seem pretty overwhelming from pretty well respected devs.

Andrizoid said:
5 dollar donation!
you guys really are making me famous.
darchstar would you like you split?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're just proving out point more and more with posts like that. You're a real piece of work kid.
Andrizoid,
I'm the most forgiving guy in the WORLD. But you just dont seem to get it.
I give up on you. Don't ever PM me again.
*Washes hands*

I think thats quite enough, this isnt going anywhere.
Flaming and bashing isn't tolerated, neither is fighting. I think the point about this individual has been made and we will leave it at that.

Will money be the downfall of open Android development?

It's a serious question.
When I released the MghtyMax series of Sense ROMs, I made it a point not to ask for donations. Not just because the bulk of the framework of those ROMs were Maxisma's code, but because I wanted to freely take as much knowledge as I was giving to the community.
I knew there were users who would want to give, and even got IM's asking where to send money. I always instructed them to send that money to their local food bank or homeless shelter.
Now that Klick has been tarred, feathered, and carried out of town on a pike, I must ask:
Assuming for a moment that Klick was guilty of copying other people's code (and I'm certainly not saying he is guilty, especially since I have not properly reviewed any evidence against him) would anyone have said word one if he hadn't been including a donation link in his posts?
There are some very successful developers here that have tens of thousands of users of their ROMs. At least one likely has over 100k users. Those users add up to a lot of donations. We're not talking chicken scratch here, but the potential to generate some serious capitol.
As with any business venture, an individual or company will go to great lengths to defend their income stream. When you are talking about proprietary designs, and copyrighted intellectual property, it's only natural for the owner of said designs or property to defend their work from imitation, alteration, and redistribution under a different brand/name.
However, we're not talking about private intellectual property here, are we? No, we're talking about open source code, released by the Android Open Source Project under the Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 generic license.
Even if he was indeed guilty of using someone else's base code, there was no law broken. So why all the hubbub?
Honestly, I think it was money.
When there is the potential to make thousands, tens of thousands, or possibly even hundreds of thousands of dollars in "donations", people are going to become very possessive of their "market share".
If donations to developers didn't exist, my guess is none of this bickering would be happening at all. One developer could happily take another dev's code, modify it, re-release it, and another dev could come along and modify that.
Nobody would complain because there would be nothing to lose. Developers would be releasing code for the sole purpose of enhancing the development community, instead of lining their pockets with currency.
Why would anyone care, as long as the code was being enriched, and the end result was better programming for all? Wasn't this the point of open development?
I know this post will be very unpopular with some, but I think we've let the money changers overrun the temple. I think this trend of asking for donations will only slow the open development of code, and encourage those with large followings to do what ever it takes to crush perceived competition.
The above paragraph may have just made me the pariah of the entire development community, but I really don't give a damn. I honestly believe the community would be far better off without money being involved at all. It is because of this belief that I encourage the management of XDA to permanently ban all requests for donations, be they for ROM development, APP development, or any other purpose.
I firmly believe that by removing money from the equation, we will see a much more rich and diverse development community, with developers willing to enjoy an open exchange of ideas.

But, people like Cyanogen (and his team) spend hours working on the source code to imrpove it for users, everything they do is freely avalable and anyone can compile it, they just ask for donations.
Then you have another side of things where people spend hours hacking and mashing away at roms that were never meant to work on our devices, devoting hours to make them work and trying to get the best possible speed.
Then toy have the people who download a rom from elsewhere, change the build.prop, maybe theme it a little if they are bored, upload it elsewhere and say "Hey donate for my work on the rom" when the reality is its not their work, nor are they worth (most of the time) running.
I think people are complaining about people in the third group, not the first two.

I've been trying to figure out what all this craziness has been about in the dev forum. I literally only browse it for my own personal selfish reasons. To get the best roms and enjoy my G1.
At the end of the day Mghtyred is ultimately right. Regardless of stolen code or not, it's all free and open source. I could definitely understand how this could upset a lot of people, but that cracks me up. I'm going to go out on a really safe looking limb here and say that most people that frequent these forums are probably pirates and download stuff constantly. But when it comes to money in their own pockets then the situation change drastically. That kind of hypocrisy is disgusting.
Especially when it leads to someone getting booted over something ultimately so petty as far as the internet is concerned. Just a bunch of egos fighting over the spotlight. Which is ultimately pretty useless when in reality the vast majority of the people who actually use your roms don't care who made it, they just want the best one out there.
Isn't money always the downfall of everything? Unfortunately it looks like it's really starting to take it's toll on this community. I'm a very new Android user but since day one of coming to these forums I always knew something sinister was up but I just had no idea why.
Perusing most threads in the dev forum, especially on the first page of each thread, you end up seeing mostly character assassination attempts being made at the thread poster. "You didn't do this," "that isn't yours" but all those comments meant nothing to us new guys or the guys that only cared about the end product, the roms.
Basically what I'm saying is, internet, I love you but get over yourself.

I'm mostly a lurker, I don't post very much here, mostly due to the fact that I'm not an Android dev...
Having been member of various MOD communities since the late 90's, it's not just the donations/money that devs are worried about (though, donations/money IS a problem), it's all about bragging rights and "being known" or "popular" in the community. When someone spends any significant amount of time working on projects such as these, they want to be recognized within (and outside of) the community as the one(s) who brought the project to life... When someone downloads your work, makes a few insignificant changes and then releases it as his own work, the original dev(s) have the right to be angry... I'm not saying ALL devs are like this (many simply do not care to be known within the community, they just want to help), but many of them are.
I for one am thankful for all the hard work devs do, if it wasn't for them, we'd be stuck with the stock ROMs... Groups like Cyanogen's team are what a community should be, everyone putting their ideas/changes/fixes into 1 big pot to make the best ROMs possible, instead of having 20 different ROMs from various devs... Although yes, choice is good, it also limits the quality of the ROMs in question, if there was 3-4 core groups with 4-5 devs in each group all working together to bring excellent ROMs to the table, we'd be much better off.
It just seems that people don't get what a community is all about, it's to share ideas/code so we ALL benefit from it, devs and users alike.
Of course, this is just my humble opinion, different communities have different ideas/people who make these communities what they are.

Well, in my opinion Android is open-source.. Yes. But when people use skills that they have to improve on Android development for our older phone is just peachy.
The problem with King Klick is because he copied someone else's work while saying he made it. He did not give credit where it was due, he never finished a single ROM, basically he just downloaded a ROM, themed it and put his name on it.
Most people seem to think he is innocent as Android is open source, open source yes but, we have rights to those codes, then when people release their modified/hacked version its alright (open source affect). As I said above the problem begins when people take other people's work and label it as their own.

Blackman778g said:
The problem with King Klick is because he copied someone else's work while saying he made it. He did not give credit where it was due, he never finished a single ROM, basically he just downloaded a ROM, themed it and put his name on it.
Click to expand...
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Really? Literally did nothing except rename it? Who's are they?

dezvous said:
Really? Literally did nothing except rename it? Who's are they?
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=7018713&postcount=45
md5sums from two different roms (one Kings) all he changed was the gapps and build.prop

vixsandlee said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=7018713&postcount=45
md5sums from two different roms (one Kings) all he changed was the gapps and build.prop
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Click to collapse
So lets put this straight. First Jubeh the original ROM creator only compiled AOSP code to build a ROM. Jubeh had no problem with KingKlick using that ROM in the way he did. Thirdly KingKlick fixed the ROM so that it worked with the Mt3G and improved its speed. To say the renamed a zip is a regurgitation of a lie. The owner of the ROM made no complaints and a certain xda moderator had made up his mind before even contacting KingKlick. KingKlick did not copy anything from Cyanogen and team, the ROM had nothing to do with them. This is really about money and Firerat one of Cyanogens pet dogs admitted as much that his aim was to remove KingKlick from xda.
Maybe we should find out how much in donations Cyangen and co have received and whether or not if they are registered with the IRS as a non profit organisation.

People need to get off of their "Open Source" high horse if they don't understand the law.
AOSP is open source (at least most of it, there are still several necessary blobs), and the code there is freely available to anybody. However, the work produced from AOSP is anything but free.
Most of AOSP is released under a very permissive Apache 2.0 license. Under this license, any modification to the code is the property of the programmer to release as they wish. Had I wanted it that way, I could have released my whole build under a very mean license that would relentlessly pursue anybody who dared post even a single part of my release anywhere else. If one of those md5s matches, there'd be problem.
Also, the license allows me to release the rom without having to release the source (like the GPL does), so basically, Android is free and open source, but only referring to the code you download from AOSP, not any half-assed code that any random joe puts up online. So, from that standpoint, NO, ANDROID IS NOT OPEN SOURCE AND EVERYBODY'S PROPERTY.
Also, how can somebody let the "Open Source" and "people's property" and "law" words out of their mouths when they take no heed to the shameless stealing of google's, htc's, and qualcomm's (plus others') IP that's being pushed ON EVERY SINGLE ROM, WINMO, ANDROID, OR ANYTHING ELSE ON THIS WHOLE FORUM!!!!.
I dare anybody to show me their license to re-distribute all code from all involved companies.
"But, android is free, isn't it?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Guess what an android build with nothing but free parts would look like?
Remember those broken SDK builds where nothing worked, there was no radio, no gapps, no audio?
That's the current state of "open source"...
It has nothing to do with the state of the legality of distributions. In fact, the whole thing is ridiculous, for example, where a certain mod who I won't name went on a holy quest against QuickOffice calling it "warez" but shamelessly ignored that pretty much everything else on the Dream forum, hell, on the whole site, is nothing but a big stinking pile of warez. I still wonder what that one was about...
vixsandlee said:
But, people like Cyanogen (and his team) spend hours working on the source code to imrpove it for users, everything they do is freely avalable and anyone can compile it, they just ask for donations.
Then you have another side of things where people spend hours hacking and mashing away at roms that were never meant to work on our devices, devoting hours to make them work and trying to get the best possible speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the real problem with XDA; all those people thinking "Oh devs are some sort of god, they make the best things, we're not worthy, I'm dumb and I can't contribute, so I'll just send some money".
Guess what? Now you're really being stupid. Any dumb chap can put the effort, with enough dedication, to make their own personal builds. Most of us doing this are geeks, a lot of us are a-holes, and I could assure you that the vast majority of us could give two f**cks if that thing you flashed is boot-looping even though it worked for us. As far as we're concerned, you screwed up and should have read better.
We weren't born tied to a computer. We had to work for what we know, and if you people want to be a retard and give money for something easy, then that's up to you, but you all really have to stop that dumb attitude that "devs" are somehow better than you. Only difference is that this is where we decided to put our interest at.
Now, this brings me back to topic. So, what if some guy took my build. I could have done something about it. I certainly did have the legal ease to do so. Turns out, I don't give a rat's ass one way or the other. You people are paying too much attention to trivialities. You're trying to put this on some sort of clash of the giants where guys are either good guys or bad guys. You're judging a "dev"'s personal qualities based on the quality of their work. If they pull up an underhanded, kangilistic build, then you judge them.
I can assure you that the makers of the most "stable", most "fastest", most popular build out there are as much douchebags as you, me, or anybody else is.

Jubeh I don't think it is triva at all, what we actually have had here on xda is a vicious campaign to remove a developer from the xda community. Firerat as much as admitted it.
I have an mt3g and I use KingKlicks ROMs because they are the ones I prefer. Now Jubeh you say you don't give a rats arse about what KingKlick did and while I find it admirable KingKlick is still banned from xda and I cannot get his ROMs from this community.
If a group of developers have singled out another for exclusion then the next logical question is why? Despite an initial extremely public locking down of KingsKlicks threads and public condemnation without even contacting him asking for an explanation the moderators have gone all quiet not even mentioning the outcome. The fact that the initial reaction was infact a breach of their own rules and the clear insinuation about getting donations clearly shows what the real problem is. This forum should drop Android and go with the Apple platform instead though of course Steve Jobs would nip that in the butt. However this is about the spirit and ethos of Android which has been completely raped not just by a gang of developers but the moderators on this forum. What happened to being open, fair and inclusive?
Its around money and donations. Clearly these guys are not charities (and I have offered to donate to a developer who told me to give to a charity of his choice instead which I did) then they should be registered as non profit organisations. Where at least we can keep tabs on their tax returns to see what their turnover actually is.

It would be interesting to find out how much rom-devs (also file movers) *actually get* from donations. I suspect that it is quite little -- certainly not enough to quit their day job. Even CM still keeps a day job, and I *suspect* that he probably gets WAY more in donations than anyone else.

lbcoder said:
It would be interesting to find out how much rom-devs (also file movers) *actually get* from donations. I suspect that it is quite little -- certainly not enough to quit their day job. Even CM still keeps a day job, and I *suspect* that he probably gets WAY more in donations than anyone else.
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Click to collapse
I know KingKlick did not get enough to purchase a nexus one yet that seemed enough to try and ban him from the xda and hence the wider Android ROM development community. I wonder if cyanogen is found to be using somebody elses work without accreditation will he be banned?

So clearly this whole mess is a convoluted and hypocritical one, with egos being the main driving force behind it all. We've got developers and moderators and both want to throw their weight around.
Then there are worthless people like me. Fun times had by all.

dezvous said:
So clearly this whole mess is a convoluted and hypocritical one, with egos being the main driving force behind it all. We've got developers and moderators and both want to throw their weight around.
Then there are worthless people like me. Fun times had by all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't quite that.
There IS a question of INTEGRITY.... whether you make nothing, 1 cent, or 1000 dollars, misrepresenting someone else's work as your own is DISHONEST, and if you are someone liable to BE dishonest, is ripping off someone else's work the worst thing you are capable of?
So combine the dishonesty with an obvious sign that you are trying (not necessarily successfully) to profit off of someone else's work... well in the real world, that is called FRAUD and people go to PRISON for it (see "Conrad Black").

I thought we were mostly pissed because he only "deved" until he got enough money for a new phone, then just quit. When he needed the next new phone, here he comes again. Never really kept up with King and his shenanigans. Honestly, all his builds sucked to me. They all bootlooped if I didn't have apps2sd. Nty.
macsbac said:
I know KingKlick did not get enough to purchase a nexus one yet that seemed enough to try and ban him from the xda and hence the wider Android ROM development community. I wonder if cyanogen is found to be using somebody elses work without accreditation will he be banned?
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Click to collapse
Yes, quit talking about the guy likes he's ****ing God. Excuse my french, but everyone acts like cyanogen fell from the sky on a golden comet from Mars. He's a great dev, no doubt, and I'm not bashing him. However, he is a human, you know that, right? If he ever stole source and claimed it as his, I'm sure the mods would do their job and the same thing would happen. However, that's not the case here and that argument of "if he did it i bet nothing would happen" should have died out in fourth third grade.

lbcoder said:
It isn't quite that.
There IS a question of INTEGRITY.... whether you make nothing, 1 cent, or 1000 dollars, misrepresenting someone else's work as your own is DISHONEST, and if you are someone liable to BE dishonest, is ripping off someone else's work the worst thing you are capable of?
So combine the dishonesty with an obvious sign that you are trying (not necessarily successfully) to profit off of someone else's work... well in the real world, that is called FRAUD and people go to PRISON for it (see "Conrad Black").
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is complete and utter nonsense, what you really mean to say he did not credit Jebah who originally compiled the ROM. A guy who did not care what KingKlick did with his ROM. If you want integrity then the integrity of the site and its moderators have lost all of it. The rules say its for the two conflicting parties to sort the issue out and if unsuccessful then bring it to the mods attention. Neither of the parties had a problem or bone of contention and in fact the issue was raised by cyanogen and his bunch of cronies of which they had nothing to do with it. Not only that then then escalated their campaign of online bullying even in several posts singling KingKlick out for what they even admit flaming, severe unpleasant language with the aim of removing him from the XDA community. The xda moderator who originally responded did so by locking threads without contacting KingKlick for his side of the story, breaching their own rules. If moderators can't follow the rules then how do they expect anyone else too. All donations to KingKlick where for his hard work as in XDA rules not for any particular ROM. You want to talk about honesty or integrity teamdouchebags are a vile group of developers trying to monopolise the ROM development community. As for XDA they very publicly locked down kings threads and made a serious of accusations against him. Though as of yet they have not even posted the outcome of their decision or the rationale behind it. They have yet to react to at least breaches of 3 rules by teamdouchebags displaying extreme bias. Its a severe abuse of their position and while within their rights it certainly lacks integrity, honesty or the openness that open source should be.

A lot of interesting posts here, I'm enjoying this discussion. Glad I started it.

macsbac said:
This is complete and utter nonsense, what you really mean to say he did not credit Jebah who originally compiled the ROM. A guy who did not care what KingKlick did with his ROM. If you want integrity then the integrity of the site and its moderators have lost all of it. The rules say its for the two conflicting parties to sort the issue out and if unsuccessful then bring it to the mods attention. Neither of the parties had a problem or bone of contention and in fact the issue was raised by cyanogen and his bunch of cronies of which they had nothing to do with it. Not only that then then escalated their campaign of online bullying even in several posts singling KingKlick out for what they even admit flaming, severe unpleasant language with the aim of removing him from the XDA community. The xda moderator who originally responded did so by locking threads without contacting KingKlick for his side of the story, breaching their own rules. If moderators can't follow the rules then how do they expect anyone else too. All donations to KingKlick where for his hard work as in XDA rules not for any particular ROM. You want to talk about honesty or integrity teamdouchebags are a vile group of developers trying to monopolise the ROM development community. As for XDA they very publicly locked down kings threads and made a serious of accusations against him. Though as of yet they have not even posted the outcome of their decision or the rationale behind it. They have yet to react to at least breaches of 3 rules by teamdouchebags displaying extreme bias. Its a severe abuse of their position and while within their rights it certainly lacks integrity, honesty or the openness that open source should be.
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You really got the wrong end of the stick and ran with it. Calm down. KingKlick is no loss to this community, we can all use winzip.

macsbac said:
So lets put this straight. First Jubeh the original ROM creator only compiled AOSP code to build a ROM. Jubeh had no problem with KingKlick using that ROM in the way he did. Thirdly KingKlick fixed the ROM so that it worked with the Mt3G and improved its speed. To say the renamed a zip is a regurgitation of a lie. The owner of the ROM made no complaints and a certain xda moderator had made up his mind before even contacting KingKlick. KingKlick did not copy anything from Cyanogen and team, the ROM had nothing to do with them. This is really about money and Firerat one of Cyanogens pet dogs admitted as much that his aim was to remove KingKlick from xda.
Maybe we should find out how much in donations Cyangen and co have received and whether or not if they are registered with the IRS as a non profit organisation.
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Are you King Klicks lawyer or are you his B****??
I like how you are trying to accuse other modders and developers of the same thing, besides that you act like the Jubeh ROM is the whole reason of this situation. THERE ARE TONS OF ROMs THAT HE USED. Don't try accusing other people of the same thing just because your fake developer friend. got caught.
macsbac said:
Jubeh I don't think it is triva at all, what we actually have had here on xda is a vicious campaign to remove a developer from the xda community. Firerat as much as admitted it.
I have an mt3g and I use KingKlicks ROMs because they are the ones I prefer. Now Jubeh you say you don't give a rats arse about what KingKlick did and while I find it admirable KingKlick is still banned from xda and I cannot get his ROMs from this community.
If a group of developers have singled out another for exclusion then the next logical question is why? Despite an initial extremely public locking down of KingsKlicks threads and public condemnation without even contacting him asking for an explanation the moderators have gone all quiet not even mentioning the outcome. The fact that the initial reaction was infact a breach of their own rules and the clear insinuation about getting donations clearly shows what the real problem is. This forum should drop Android and go with the Apple platform instead though of course Steve Jobs would nip that in the butt. However this is about the spirit and ethos of Android which has been completely raped not just by a gang of developers but the moderators on this forum. What happened to being open, fair and inclusive?
Its around money and donations. Clearly these guys are not charities (and I have offered to donate to a developer who told me to give to a charity of his choice instead which I did) then they should be registered as non profit organisations. Where at least we can keep tabs on their tax returns to see what their turnover actually is.
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Why are you even on here if you can't accept the truth? The moderator even said he pm'ed King to make a public announcement to clearify the situation. King Klick was acting dumb.
Can we just move on?

Blackman778g said:
Are you King Klicks lawyer or are you his B****??
I like how you are trying to accuse other modders and developers of the same thing, besides that you act like the Jubeh ROM is the whole reason of this situation. THERE ARE TONS OF ROMs THAT HE USED. Don't try accusing other people of the same thing just because your fake developer friend. got caught.
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As for the reason, i have evidence he intentionally copied at least 2 Roms from respectable Android developers, renamed the and called them his own.
I dont have time, due too work, no internet at work
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Strange that because the moderators are only questioning two ROMs. The only one they mention is that of Jebah's and he has made his position quite clear repeatedly. Yes many, many ROMs from most developers do not credit others and its not a problem unless the creator of the original ROM complains as per rule 12.
Blackman778g said:
Why are you even on here if you can't accept the truth? The moderator even said he pm'ed King to make a public announcement to clearify the situation. King Klick was acting dumb.
Can we just move on?
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Really the truth
He isn't banned at the moment, for later today, will be sending him a PM to open a thread in PUBLIC and explain himself.
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Again KingKlick was clearly locked a day before any moderator even PM'd and the moderator in question Mikey1022 clearly let his intentions be known before KingKlick was asked to explain, before Jebah made any complaint and then made some bogus allegations about donations as an excuse to break the forums own rules.
Why public?? For the simple reason.........he kept shoving a donation link in every thread he created, unlike the other developers, he copy-catted from.
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Despite KingKlick being forced to put a donation link into every signature as defined in xda rules. Effectively Mikey1022 is punishing KingKlick here for following xda rules.
We can not/should not allow developers coping roms, collecting money on others hard work. As he calls it his own.
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Yet I want Mikey1022 to post a quote or link to where KingKlick called this ROM his own. Or where he asked for a donation for this ROM specifically. Somehow I think he will fail to respond to this post as the others when I asked the same questions.
A couple mods on here know about King and his crap he has been pulling off, so it's not a big surprise.
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Then the clear bias continues and the decision to ban KingKlick was pre-empted before any sort of truth was established. The main one being Jubah had no problem with KingKlick using his ROM and did not raise any concerns with an XDA moderator. As such no rule was broken and issue should have been dropped in lines with xda rules. Again who raised the complaint? nobody knows. For the extreme public castration of KingKlick Mikey1022 and his fellow mods have kept quiet, why have they not even told the community what KingKlicks punishment is or given any reason for it?
Do you think its a coincidence that this complaint was apparently raised when KingKlick refused to become butt buddies with cyanogen or be on "team douche". That cyanogen lost the bap with a post full of explicit language used in a direct insult in violation of xda rules. No public castration there though and I have to ask why? Then I can ask why some of cyanogens dogs of can admit to starting flame wars directed a KingKlick for a sustained period of time and yet this clear violation of rules led to no public castration. How further after 3 days of flaming and direct insults firerat even as good as admits his aim is to remove KingKlick from the xda community yet again no public castration there.
These people say KingKlicks ROMs are just renamed zips that's ok but as a 32b owner and constant ROM flasher why do KingKlicks roms always run better on my device than the others.
Its almost unbelievable that a forum I have been following for a while now can allow a group of developers to exclude another developer from an open source project. Its much more vile than anything KingKlick has been accused of. The moderators of this forum should be hanging their heads in shame.

[PETITION]Sign if you want to make your own decisions about potentially unsafe leaks!

UPDATE: In the potential circumstance that a leak has been watermarked and job(s) are at stake then I think I speak for everyone in saying that a ROM should not be publicly released unless the watermark has been removed (if that's impossible, then it still shouldn't be released). This petition is not unique to the DK05 leak; it goes for any leak that is not watermarked. The reason I am posting it now is because people have cited bricking problems over watermarking in DK05.
This thread was made to unify and organize the voices of those who feel that it is our own responsibility to decide whether or not we should flash potentially unsafe ROMs, specifically leaks.
We feel that it is NOT the responsibility of the developers or the XDA staff to protect us from potentially unsafe ROMs.
We have seen that at least some staff, and at least some developers feel that it is their responsibility to protect us from potentially unsafe ROMs.
We would like to firmly but kindly remind these people that we and we alone should decide what gets flashed onto our phones.
We would like to remind them that we can and will take full responsibility for whatever happens when we flash these ROMs.
We would like to remind them that we can and will use the various guides to restore our phone if something goes seriously wrong.
Finally, we would like to remind them that those people who don't take full responsibility for flashing a potentially unsafe ROM can and should be dealt with through methods that do not impact the community at large.
Sign by posting if you are one of us. Please post only once and do not post if you are not signing. There are numerous other threads open for discussion.

Signed
Though I find when one part if a community is forced to petition another for fair treatment that's a bad sign

WHAT DO WE WANT? BRICKED PHONES! WHEN DO WE WANT EM? NOW!!!!!
xda mods, please dont make my decisions for me. if i want to chug four loko and flash buggy beta roms i should have the right to do so!
i dont need a nanny.

Signed... I don't understand what the problem was with releasing dk05? I am running it just fine. Now if I remember correctly we could brick our phones from flashing to anything not just betas. Isn't that what the devs always put in the op "I do not take responsibility if your phone gets bricked due to flashing this rom" or something along those lines. I do not see why nothing could be said like that and just gave us the damn leak in the first place.. oh well though, I got it anyways. Thanks.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Signed...sgs are unbrickable...u can even jimmy rig some resistors and force into dl mode if u mess up that far ....odin flash ur good to go... All the excuses we have been given r just that...excuses...how about we as a community educate..well ... The community....once a strong base is established..guess what the community will grow and there will be infinitely less useless threads pop up
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

NOT Signed.
What the OP is leaving out in this "petition" is the fact that these leaks are watermarked with specific code that allows "the powers that be" to easily discover the source of said leak.
So basically, everyone signing this "petition" is demanding that developers share their internal/confidential leaks with the public because you have a selfish sense of entitlement, and don't give a rat's a** if someone loses their job over it. Behavior like this, which is 98% exclusive to Android, is precisely why I waited several years before leaving Windows Mobile.
/end my rant as an Android user and someone with a common sense of decency. The preceding post was done not as a Moderator, and is strictly my personal observation.

NotATreoFan said:
NOT Signed.
What the OP is leaving out in this "petition" is the fact that these leaks are watermarked with specific code that allows "the powers that be" to easily discover the source of said leak.
So basically, everyone signing this "petition" is demanding that developers share their internal/confidential leaks with the public because you have a selfish sense of entitlement, and don't give a rat's a** if someone loses their job over it. Behavior like this, which is 98% exclusive to Android, is precisely why I waited several years before leaving Windows Mobile.
/end my rant as an Android user and someone with a common sense of decency. The preceding post was done not as a Moderator, and is strictly my personal observation.
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While I agree with you 100%, when developers post all over the forums and brag about roms that they have and how awesome they are while refusing to share with the rest of us, that is pretty ****ty and does nothing but piss people off. This has happened with EVERY SINGLE LEAK. Even in the thread where the DK05 rom was leaked, the very people denouncing the leak were bragging about having DK17, i mean seriously? The reason that this behavior didn't occur with Windows Mobile was that the devs actually EXPLAINED to their users what was going on and updated them instead of keeping them in the dark. I have no problem with Devs not releasing the roms, but if you are going to brag about having them to the rest of the forum, you better start a damn thread and at least give us updates on what the rom fixes or breaks and the cool features that Samsung is including in said rom.

muyoso said:
While I agree with you 100%, when developers post all over the forums and brag about roms that they have and how awesome they are while refusing to share with the rest of us, that is pretty ****ty and does nothing but piss people off. This has happened with EVERY SINGLE LEAK. Even in the thread where the DK05 rom was leaked, the very people denouncing the leak were bragging about having DK17, i mean seriously? The reason that this behavior didn't occur with Windows Mobile was that the devs actually EXPLAINED to their users what was going on and updated them instead of keeping them in the dark. I have no problem with Devs not releasing the roms, but if you are going to brag about having them to the rest of the forum, you better start a damn thread and at least give us updates on what the rom fixes or breaks and the cool features that Samsung is including in said rom.
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Even if it's only a thread, you are still demanding. And unless you are that dev's significant other or their boss, you have absolutely no right to do this.

muyoso said:
While I agree with you 100%, when developers post all over the forums and brag about roms that they have and how awesome they are while refusing to share with the rest of us, that is pretty ****ty and does nothing but piss people off. This has happened with EVERY SINGLE LEAK. Even in the thread where the DK05 rom was leaked, the very people denouncing the leak were bragging about having DK17, i mean seriously? The reason that this behavior didn't occur with Windows Mobile was that the devs actually EXPLAINED to their users what was going on and updated them instead of keeping them in the dark. I have no problem with Devs not releasing the roms, but if you are going to brag about having them to the rest of the forum, you better start a damn thread and at least give us updates on what the rom fixes or breaks and the cool features that Samsung is including in said rom.
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Finally a reply with an argument... Here is the deal. Even if they are hitting you in the face with the leak, that still does not entitle you to have it nor you have any right to demand it. Period, there is no way around it. Nor you, me, the other admins, or anyone in this place can force a dev to do otherwise.
As for the "teaser" threads, I agree... I personally don't like those as more often than not, they are used to drive up donations, which is why Rule 11 is currently being amended to prevent this from happening. It is like eating a 12 oz stake in front of a starving child, not cool. However, there is a thin line between a teaser and a closed beta. This was supposed to be a closed beta, and it ended up being a leaked leak.
BTW, Not Signed either...

NotATreoFan said:
NOT Signed.
What the OP is leaving out in this "petition" is the fact that these leaks are watermarked with specific code that allows "the powers that be" to easily discover the source of said leak.
So basically, everyone signing this "petition" is demanding that developers share their internal/confidential leaks with the public because you have a selfish sense of entitlement, and don't give a rat's a** if someone loses their job over it. Behavior like this, which is 98% exclusive to Android, is precisely why I waited several years before leaving Windows Mobile.
/end my rant as an Android user and someone with a common sense of decency. The preceding post was done not as a Moderator, and is strictly my personal observation.
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Please don't assume that this is about DK05/any watermarked leak (if DK05 is in fact watermarked). I've updated the first post.
I'll take this opportunity as my 1 post to sign my own petition. Everyone else please return to normal.

Well what is the real case here because I also read a post saying that the exact same korean dudes info is on the SPRINT stock di18 which,if true, would leave all argument moot. So maybe someone will be kind enough to try and confirm compare stock di18, dg27 etc
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Today is a great day to go visit other forums. Too many self-righteous adults acting like spoiled children in xda today.
(not directed specifically at this thread, it's just one of many in the past few days)

NotATreoFan said:
Even if it's only a thread, you are still demanding. And unless you are that dev's significant other or their boss, you have absolutely no right to do this.
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The point of this petition is that people don't want to be "protected" in that way..it is unrelated to the watermarks or the demands...It is understandable if something is not released due to a watermark that can effect someone's job...BUT if the said case is merely "its for your own good cause you can brick your phone" thats what the petition is about and strictly that..lets not bundle multiple issues in 1.
That said, this should have been a poll rather then people responding as it was bound to get discussion within it >.>

gTen said:
The point of this petition is that people don't want to be "protected" in that way..it is unrelated to the watermarks or the demands...It is understandable if something is not released due to a watermark that can effect someone's job...BUT if the said case is merely "its for your own good cause you can brick your phone" thats what the petition is about and strictly that..lets not bundle multiple issues in 1.
That said, this should have been a poll rather then people responding as it was bound to get discussion within it >.>
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That would be the dev's prerogative/excuse. Again, still no one is entitled to demand for anything around here, as stated by NATF.

zigarath said:
Well what is the real case here because I also read a post saying that the exact same korean dudes info is on the SPRINT stock di18 which,if true, would leave all argument moot. So maybe someone will be kind enough to try and confirm compare stock di18, dg27 etc
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Heres the part about the "Korean dude" whos name is on DK05 and DI bklah blah whatever.All that is is the name of the machine that built the build in the first place thats all it is nothing more its not the owner of the leaked build just the name of the machine that built it.

Thanks skeet for clearing this up...have enjoyed ur work thus far and thank u for ur time to educate us.. So to end this please no more arguments or discussions of watermarks endangering an employees job as these arguments are now pointless lets keep threads focused to ops topic...and grow from this
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

No problem I am surprised noboby has said that yet in all the times I have seen people talk about that ShinLi or whatever the name is the the server farm/single machine that spends its life building Android for our phones.

egzthunder1 said:
That would be the dev's prerogative/excuse. Again, still no one is entitled to demand for anything around here, as stated by NATF.
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Its a petition..to try to express the beliefs of the community..as stated its a different issue from the watermark or demand..if the dev doesn't want to release thats fine too..its their choice..but one thing we do demand is respect as based on rule 2.5 (if I am interpreting it correctly)...so we don't want an excuse of "We aren't releasing it because it will brick your phone and you won't know what to do" kind of thing...

this is ridiculous
i haven't posted very much in these forums, and don even have an epic yet. i plan on getting one in feb and was doing research since i haven't been on a stock rom for more than a day in years.
that being said i just wanted to say that no one owes any of us anything. the devs in this community are not here to be your slaves. non of us have any right to ask when a rom will be completed, demand any leaked information, or even have access to this site at all. i don't know about you but i haven't paid a penny for this site and I've gotten plenty of benefit by using the information here.
I just want to say thank you to all the devs on these forums and keep up the good work. i look forward to flashing a customer rom on my future epic as i have on my kaiser, rhodium and aria.
also petition not signed.

gTen said:
Its a petition..to try to express the beliefs of the community..as stated its a different issue from the watermark or demand..if the dev doesn't want to release thats fine too..its their choice..but one thing we do demand is respect as based on rule 2.5 (if I am interpreting it correctly)...so we don't want an excuse of "We aren't releasing it because it will brick your phone and you won't know what to do" kind of thing...
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You are not out of line in wanting respect, once it has been earned. For the record, I am not trying to say that is the case here. But resorting to demands and petitions will not help the overall situation. If you or anyone else feels like someone is behaving in a questionable or suspicious/cocky manner, please use the Report Post option, and we will review and address the situation accordingly.

My thoughts against unthankful users.

Just wanted to mention that all the users who attacked the devs have changed their tune since oem support is crap.
I've been holding my feeling against all the ignorant users who attacked the devs.
Thanks, that is all.

I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to say, but I got the gist of it.
And I agree.
That is all.

Translation:
All those who attacked the devs and coined them faildev.team are all of a sudden changing their tune now that they are speaking out about their projects, and OEM support has been so crappy.
Sad that people act like this.

I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.

Thanks for the translation...

FDro said:
I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.
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People demand instant gratification, and when they do not get it, they get ugly because they think for some reason, they are owed everything. Then there is the jealousy factor. Then there are those who think the devs withhold stuff from the community.
Then there are those who just attack me because they can.
The android community is young, and due to it being user friendly, it attracts young folks. Some just happen to be very immature. It *should* get better with time.

All this cool and dandy...
However developers also have some room to improve situation on the forums.
As adrynalyne pointed here there is a lot of childish behavior here. But developers, being leaders of community, not always behave as such.
I understand all sorts of emotions etc. I personally fall victim of them... Sorry if I hurted somebodys feelings.
But, I cannot stand some sort of elitism growing here.
Devs, please do not threat rest of the crowd as a bunch of morons! It will reflect positively on you as well.
If you have time to read all crappy posts on the forums and post aggravated responses, why do not spend this time typing meaningful response, holding grain of knowledge? If not, just stay calm and do not feed flame.
I do not want to repeat myself again and again. Just want to see some professionalism and respect in forums. It's not going to help moving to IRC, twitter or whatever. Root cause must be resolved.
Personally I was really impressed, more by anything else, of adrynalyne responding to that guy posted leak on other forums. Seriously! It was so different from how I percept him at forum. Like completely different person.
Respect!

While moving to irc may be unfortunate for some...it provides real time interaction for development. That simply is not possible on a forum. I work with a lot of people, and can fix problems 90% faster in real time.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

FDro said:
I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.
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I totally agree, the devs have my support in anything that they do, in whatever time frame they can make happen. Still better then the OEM time frame for an "update".

i hope the poster(s) who jumped all over the devs awhile back (i forget who) arent using anything that they have done recently and will avoid froyo/gb unless it comes from verizon/samsung

nitsuj17 said:
i hope the poster(s) who jumped all over the devs awhile back (i forget who) arent using anything that they have done recently and will avoid froyo/gb unless it comes from verizon/samsung
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agreed
10char

adrynalyne said:
While moving to irc may be unfortunate for some...it provides real time interaction for development. That simply is not possible on a forum. I work with a lot of people, and can fix problems 90% faster in real time.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
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And that's OK. Unfortunately it doesn't leave any footprints anywhere else.
That's why we same questions everyday... Technical or whatever. The commonality between them is that they do not have posted answers here.
I'm talking for myself only. Please do not take it personally in any way and keep in mind that my English is not my native language, so something might sound harsh.
Like I got an understanding that RIL is the problem, by I was unable to find any technical explanation why, what was done to overcome etc. So, I asked here... I even do not want to think about what resulted. And all I wanted to have some technical answer, and may be share some ideas, because I'm in the IT field as well...
Now, looks whats going on around. Punkkaos got it working at least partially. I understand that other people contributed, and work probably started not 10 minutes ago. But nonetheless RIL is in progress or already done.
How I suppose to feel about this? I'm mixed.
Fist of all I'm THANKFUL for you guys who put all time and efforts in this! I'm not going to use it immediately, but I like that secure feeling that phone will not become a paperweight in 6 months down the road. I definitely will enjoy results of this work in the close future.
But, I need to admit that I have another side, as well. It's not necessarily dark, just kind of human nature, I guess. It kind of disappointment...
I ask myself - well, if it is done and done pretty quickly, why it didn't happened before? Months ago...
Like, just an assumption, please do not take it personally.
I think what if devs took a quick look and it didn't worked immediately and samsung promised update soon. People think - OK, we will wait for update, not worth to spend time on it. But time goes and goes and there is no update or leak... And tension is going up and up. And all this is OK and well understood. But doesn't solve the problem.
Yesterday, I've created twitter account (yes, call me a dinosaur) and specifically asked punkkaos how he addressed the problem. And guess what, he answered as expected that RIL is basically adapted and he does call result translation between old and new one. This is exactly how I would personally approach this problem myself.
My point here is that aside of actual work to be done, it is not rocket science. It is well known approach in programming.
And now you can throw all rocks you have into me, saying that if I so smart ass why I do not do it myself. That, right.
But, I know my limits and I'm not going to wipe out one of my comps, partition it to install Linux, to install tool chain, sources etc, to reinstall Windows and all crap me and my family needs in everyday life, just to try adapt RIL knowing that I will fail, because of my zero knowledge of subject. Or, even worse without knowing that it was already attempted and failed. And it was attempted by someone who is really ample to do it. Do you see holding factors?
That's why I asked questions. And being this question answered properly, who knows, may be another brave soul would had managed to accomplish what punkkaos did, but one month earlier, simpler or better. I feel like bad temper and communication let community down, at least temporarily.
And I think we are all at fault here. No need to point fingers.

No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.

phooky said:
No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.
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Did I ever said that I'm owed? My grief is about this particular community in general. And because we all members, we all equally responsible for a atmosphere here. Or you think that bashing somebody here helps a lot?
And you know what? OP is right at the moment, I'll stay away from any custom roms or mods or whatever. At least for now. Because to be "cool" is not only thing in my life anymore. I outgrown it long time ago.
My crave for update is stemming not from desire to have highest score in quadrant, but from wish to have stable, usable and secure platform, from which IMHO any current phone is far away.
Out of the box SF is fairly usable, thought not ideal. Having Froyo and GB, means that I can get all bug fixes, improvements and new features such as native code extensions for applications and games, enterprise stuff etc.
Using rooted phone might be OK for me, but definitely not for my wife or children. So, manufacturer support is still important. Unfortunately my believe in Samsung faded out very quickly. And that essentially raised importance of independent developers proportionally. I do not see anything wrong with it.

phooky said:
No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.
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this guy does not seem to be in the entitlement crowd. He even states that english is a second language and to cut him some slack. I think what he was trying to say is that he was disappointed that samsung kept getting everybodies hopes up, which may have pushed devs off of working on getting things rolling for this device (why wouldn't they wait when they are being told froyo is on the way? From what I understand it would be easier to rip through that and make changes than to pull it off a different phone and sort of start from scratch). This doesn't sound too "tinfoil hat" to me, and certaintly doesn;t come off as entitled. More like he was pointing out one possible contributing factor as to why there has been a lot of waiting around (not complaining here guys, statement of fact. Did/do appreciate all the nonfroyo/gb roms and fixes that have been pushed out for us) for word of froyo. Now that Kaos/JT/Birdman have gotten some Froyo alpha's posted up, I am getting the feeling that the floodgates are about to open.

2 cents
I am not a developer.
My phone was decent out of the box.
Thanks to all the developers hard work, that i don't yet have the ability to do, my phone has gone from decent to fantastic.
The best part is that they aren't done yet
The future is exciting and if i ever think i am entitled to anything from someone elses work then, please, someone on here ***** slap me.
To all developers on here....you have my respect and gratitude. You have improved my life and saved my ass more than once. (Or twice)
Please keep doing your thing. And when i learn how to help i will.
Sent from my fascinate through xda app.

Well, the goal isn't to instill hostility, but to bring awareness to be thankful.
I can see what CNemo means because he doesn't understand what's going on. I can assure you that there is no intended elitism going on. Most of the roms tested in irc are shared here as soon as they are determined to be stable enough for testing.
It may seem like there is no transparency, but actually if you care, there is... The source codes are public. You can see what the devs are doing on github.

Yeah I've tried the whole, "Im just gonna throw it out there on the forums" thing. It does not work well, and you end up ticking people off when things stop working. Always best for the IRC crowd to muddle through the stuff first.

adrynalyne said:
Yeah I've tried the whole, "Im just gonna throw it out there on the forums" thing. It does not work well, and you end up ticking people off when things stop working. Always best for the IRC crowd to muddle through the stuff first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree and disagree. I disagree because it's nice to have this stuff in the forums where more people can try it. On the other hand, no matter how many warnings you give, there are going to be those who AREN'T comfortable with ADB, etc and go ahead and do it anyway... then we as a community lose valuable time while you fix everyone's fubar. It's frustrating to me, I can only imagine being on the other side. As far as Devs go, I don't envy them... It's the utimate "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.
Aside from donations and thanks, the other way to support the Dev community is to PAY for apps. I have quite a few paid apps on my phone. The only caveat to that is when I'm looking at an app and I'm unsure if I want/need it. From time to time I'll grab it from ********* and give it a 5min test spin. If it works, I uninstall and grab it from the Market. If it doesn't, I just uninstall. I know (for the most part) that we're talking about two separate types of devs, but the point is the same... if you're using someone's work... support them!
In response to the post above, I think I get what he was saying... I've done some programming (old school, mostly... BASIC, MS Acess) and while that doesn't really apply to Android at ALL, there may be some of us that have ideas that could help. In the end, a variable is a variable is a variable. I've thrown questions and ideas out only to be ignored. I don't take it personally, but even a "no, dip****... it doesn't work like that" would be appreaciated

No seriously, the guys in IRC will flash anything thrown at them... Some of them will end up with serious issues that were found to be seriously flawed.
Here's an example. VooDoo 5. When it first started rolling around in IRC from jt, it was considered unstable. It did not have the tools required for the average user to repair their phone. Adrynalyne preemptively produced the DI01 all in one ROM to repair everything from the radio, the kernel, the MBR, the recovery even... Did Adrynalyne have to do that? No, he did it because he knew that kinds of issues that would arrive when VooDoo 5 was introduced. Then VooDoo 5 was released.
Compared to VooDoo 4, the amount of incidents are exponentially less because of Adrynalyne putting a fix out there.
Also with phone repairs, it's much easier to help someone fix something in real time than it is to wait on them to try something, post, wait for response, in that sequence than it is to discuss the repair live in a chatroom.
BTW, this is in no offense to anyone. This is to clarify why some of the people are perceived as elitists. It's not that the IRC crowd are elitists, it's that they're more up to date with the latest development because they're busy flashing and screwing up their phones first so that you don't have to. On the same token, if you want to learn/test latest development, hop on IRC and ask any of the guys in #Samsung-Fascinate for help. It's very friendly in there contrary to what you would think (as long as you're not wozzy/sherwood1).

a reminder to the armv(k)-team

May I remind the armv(k)-team to this section of the forum rules from xda-developers:
2. Member conduct.
2.1 Language: XDA is a worldwide community. As a result what is ‘ok’ to say in your part of the world may not be ok in someone else’s part of the world. Please think about who is reading what you write. Keep in mind that what you think of as acceptable use of language may not be acceptable to others. Conversely, while reading member posts, remember that word you find offensive may not be to the writer. Tolerance is a two way street.
2.2 Nudity: XDA is used by people of all ages, including minors. It's not acceptable to post nude/pornographic imagery, which includes exposure of the male or female genitalia or of female breasts.
2.3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
2.4 Personal attacks, racial, political and/or religious discussions: XDA is a discussion forum about certain mobile phones. Mobile phones are not racial, political, religious or personally offensive, therefore none of these types of discussions are permitted on XDA.
2.5 New Members: Treat new members the way you would have liked to have been treated when you were a new member. Provide the new members with guidance, advice and instruction always with respect and courtesy.
2.6 All members are expected to read and adhere to the XDA rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No need to flame others over your apocalypse rom. It is, after all, just another rom and nothing special that will change the world.
None of your "features" are exclusive to your rom and there's absolutley no reason for *****ing around like that.
I also may quote rule#10:
10. Help others if you can.
If you see posts from others where you can help out, please do. This place exists because people are helping each other, and even if you are relatively new to the matter, there's probably already quite a few people newer than you that would benefit from what you've learned. Don't be shy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about you, but sharing knowledge is what this forum is all about, right?
It's not about fame...
If all this Linux/Android stuff was closed-source, e.g. the developers wouldn't share the "how to" then you wouldn't be able to build a custom rom in the first place. None of this knowledge is exclusively yours.
What do you think you are? Privileged nobility?
Correct me, if I'm wrong, but you didn't invent any of this, did you?
You copied what you saw elsewhere. And exchanging a "b" for an "a" doesn't make it "your" work...
And next time you pirate some movie or mp3 from the internet (I know you will), please think about your reaction!

mokopokko said:
May I remind the armv(k)-team to this section of the forum rules from xda-developers:
No need to flame others over your apocalypse rom. It is, after all, just another rom and nothing special that will change the world.
None of your "features" are exclusive to your rom and there's absolutley no reason for *****ing around like that.
I also may quote rule#10:
I don't know about you, but sharing knowledge is what this forum is all about, right?
It's not about fame...
If all this Linux/Android stuff was closed-source, e.g. the developers wouldn't share the "how to" then you wouldn't be able to build a custom rom in the first place. None of this knowledge is exclusively yours.
What do you think you are? Privileged nobility?
Correct me, if I'm wrong, but you didn't invent any of this, did you?
You copied what you saw elsewhere. And exchanging a "b" for an "a" doesn't make it "your" work...
And next time you pirate some movie or mp3 from the internet (I know you will), please think about your reaction!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hope they read this

I do not agree. They have seen their work posted before release, from unknown guy. Anyone would go upset.

No. They always said things like "if you want jit and cannot wait, search the internet like we did."
Someone did and found their method.
Owned.
And I don't think that a standard feature of android can be claimed as "their" work.
If they don't want "their" work to be used, they should program their own android without gpl license...
If everybody thought like this none of this stuff that makes android so much better than for example ios would exist.
It's just the wrong attitude.
And btw, they also ripped themes and images without giving proper credits at first.
"whoops, forgot to mention the original creator"
But no one complained.
Now it's their work that gets "compromised" and they act like total jerks.
I dunno....either you wanna share your stuff and expertise like it is ment or you build your own rom just for yourself without bothering others.
Noone really needs a custom rom and noone has to provide one.
Everything that has been achieved already more than we accepted when we bought a g3 with 2.1 as is...

I cant speak in the name of my other members in term of the cursing part
I always was clean in my words, never said bad words
But in that from other parts "Sorry"
I dont mind sharing stuff or anything as said before
The only thing is people taking credit on other peoples work, its not about fame its about been correct
The files got corrupt, so we will never know the truth, but i think that has been settled
THe main problem here was someone that got the coding before release and sent it out behing our back
Nuff said
Best Regards
Motafoca

Dude. First stop reminders and start helping people. Look at your post count. Dont try to be smart. Next be a developer and then you will know how it pains when some one stole your months hard work and sleepless nights. So better stop posting and start helping.
MOD: Please review this thread and delete.

Your work was leaked by your own team. You said the last time to everyone: "if you want JIT then search for it". Someone has done that found your leaked version and has shared this with us. So you can't just come in here like rudolf and start yelling and offending on everybody who wanted JIT. If something is leaked by your team members its NOT right to blame the Community for that.
After all, thank you for JIT.

shadow7582 said:
Your work was leaked by your own team. You said the last time to everyone: "if you want JIT then search for it". Someone has done that found your leaked version and has shared this with us. So you can't just come in here like rudolf and start yelling and offending on everybody who wanted JIT. If something is leaked by your team members its NOT right to blame the Community for that.
After all, thank you for JIT.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dont you get it!
We stopped it! You fools are starting it again! man you guys are like dirty filthy crabs! pulling our legs to your dirt all the time!
"shadow7582" BEAT IT! go get some fresh air!

mokopokko said:
No. They always said things like "if you want jit and cannot wait, search the internet like we did."
Someone did and found their method.
Owned.
And I don't think that a standard feature of android can be claimed as "their" work.
If they don't want "their" work to be used, they should program their own android without gpl license...
If everybody thought like this none of this stuff that makes android so much better than for example ios would exist.
It's just the wrong attitude.
And btw, they also ripped themes and images without giving proper credits at first.
"whoops, forgot to mention the original creator"
But no one complained.
Now it's their work that gets "compromised" and they act like total jerks.
I dunno....either you wanna share your stuff and expertise like it is ment or you build your own rom just for yourself without bothering others.
Noone really needs a custom rom and noone has to provide one.
Everything that has been achieved already more than we accepted when we bought a g3 with 2.1 as is...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
100% agreed

EdisDee said:
100% agreed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
KID. who the hell are you. I dont know why you are jumping in. You said 100% agree and breaking rules.

No more smart people here. Dont make it complicated.

"Dude" why don't you mind your attidute?
No offense intended, merely stating out facts. If you don't like it, don't like it.
And wtf has my post count to do with all that? Who sais that I'm not an better developer than you? My post count? Come on, give me some credit.
I don't try to be "smart", I try to be resonable.
I think it's not just me that is somewhat annoyed with your attitude.
Because it's against the basic idea.
It's not development related, so I posted it here. You don't want my oppinion. Don't read it.
So better stop flaming innocent people, start reading the forum rules (you obviosly need to, no matter your post count or position inside the community) and then work on your kernel or whatever.
Don't get me wrong. I appreciate your work and am looking forward to it, but I don't like your "policy".

Mokopokko
The persons involved arent complaining, dont come here and troll with other peoples stuff
If the people involved want to complain fine, but you dont have nothing to do with it
Go find something else to do

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot this is your topic.
It's not primarily about your guys work being leaked (believe it or not: you're not the most important parts of my life), I was merely intending to make you guys think about this "freedom of knowledge", "sharing" and "community" thing.
I don't know why you start to insult me.
If you don't want to discuss, don't discuss. It's really that simple.
If noone wants to comment on this thread, noone will and it will be on page 2 tomorrow.
I don't think it's trolling at all.
Flaming on the other hand is defenitly what you guys are doing.

I repeat the same to you. why are you reading and overposting. You are acting smarter now. If you have problem go complain to mods and let them take action if some thing is wrong. Who the hell are you to remind us. If you dont like shut u r as. No big deal. You are breaking forum rules by posting nonsense and wasting our time.

I think only one thing, we must be grateful to this guys for their free work. Here many of us can search on internet and copy the work of others but few know how to do it.
I'm waiting for yours rom since I have seen the announce of Apocalypse.
Then good work and thank you ARMV team.
Edit: sorry for my bad english
Sent from my GT-I5800 using Tapatalk

warning to all
hi
a warning to ALL no flaming this thread is closed if any more of this is happens them some one is gona get a Ban pls dont force me to do so
THREAD CLOSED