It is by now well known the SGS has a lag issue (apps slow to launch, email slow to access, etc) that can be fixed by changing filesystems for parts of the device, to make it blazingly smooth.
There are several fixes available, some based on SD card, some used through PC, some based on kernel flashing, some based on on-device apps, etc.
At the time of this writing it is hard to say which is better. I would personally advise you to take a quick look around at which fixes are available.
Most of them are listed/referenced from the FAQ thread here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=723596
--
This is a placeholder post, the first method was stickied before but this seemed unfair to the other methods and may not be the method most suited to your device usage and situation. At this time, all of the fixes have their specific quirks and needs. Hopefully soon we will see a "much better than all the rest" fix soon from one of the devs here, or Samsung might even fix it themselves
If someone cares to write down a comparison between all the available methods at this time, feel free to post it in a reply here!
Great idea Chainfire.
When a user first decided to use a modified/custom/different firmware on their Samsung Galaxy S, they usually go through these steps:
1. Flash with Odin/Kies
2. Flash update.zip for root
3. Flash other update.zip (GPS fix, battery mod, etc) as necessary
4. Do a lag fix.
It took me a few hours and reading through countless posts to see the pro's and con's for each lag fix.
I will try to go through them as succintly as possible, and if anyone needs more explanation you can either click the link or do a search.
Feel free to correct me, this is how I see the lagfix as when I applied and tested it
Before starting, here is the internal structure of non volatile memory (where data persist after reboots) in Samsung Galaxy S:
- 128MB of very fast NAND (some people incorrectly called this ROM)
- 16/8GB of internal SD with 2GB set aside for application installs (this is why you see your internal SD as either 13+ or 5+ remaining, the 2GB shows up as Internal Phone storage)
- your micro SD card (external SD)
The lag is due to the inefficiency of the file system used in the 2GB (/data) partition for applications, stalling a lot of the read/write operation. You can search this for further reading if you want to.
Lag fixes
- MoDaCo's lagfix: Better than stock on old F/Ws but about the same as JM1/2/5 and JP1/2/3
This lagfix uses the 128MB very fast NAND to store your applications instead.
Pro: very very fast applications opening/switching performance
Cons: You are limited to 128MB of apps including built in apps .
- Mimocan's lagfix: Significant improvements in performance which can also be benchmarked. Requires an external SDcard formatted partly in fat and partly ext3 or ext4.
This moves the /data files into the ext3/ext4 partition on an external microSD card
Pros: very fast, lots of storage space for apps
Cons: You will be unable to unmount your external SD card when the phone is on, and you need an external SD card for this to work
- OneClick Lagfix by RyanZA: Based on mimocan but using the internal SD card. Results are better than with basic mimocan and it is a lot easier to install.
This creates a file inside the 2GB partition that is mounted as /data.
Pros: very fast, lots of storage space for apps, easy to install and undo, available in the market.
Cons: if you install too many apps you won't be able to roll back the lag fix unless you delete some apps. Superseded by RyanZA lag fix 2.3 beta
Erroneous free space on Internal Phone storage (/data)
There are still stalls when installing apps, and when accessing android applications database
- CFLagFix by Chainfire: Based on mimocan, approximately the same as RyanZA's fix.
pretty much the same as OneClick Lagfix.
look above for Pros
Cons: There are still stalls when installing apps, and when accessing android applications database
-Voodoo lag fix by supercurio: a new class of total lag fix
Instead of creating a file inside the rfs partition and mounting it as /data/data, the voodoo lag fix updates the kernel so that the the 2GB partition is using ext4 instead or rfs. This gives the best possible lag fix.
Pros: fast, smooth, across everything you do. The way galaxy s should have been in the first place. The best and most consistent lag fix with no remaining lag left that is caused by rfs.
Support with other kernel mods are starting to show: backlight mod, OC/UV kernel
Cons: Incompatible with clockworkmod recovery
I am now using voodoo lagfix beta 4 only
http://project-voodoo.org/
I hope this helps
So, I usually read a lot on the Android Dev side of the SGS since I am very keen on a fix that will eliminate the lagging issues on the phone. I was in Spain for a holiday at the end of August and have come home to find a new 'Project Voodoo' fix being touted around. What sort of method does this fix entail?
And does anyone out there in the developer community believe that there will be a fix that will reformat the entire 2gb data partition to YAFFS2/EXT4/NILFS2 etc, as opposed to mounting a virtual file system on top of RFS? Or is it possible that Samsung themselves could remedy this with the 2.2 update?
sionyboy said:
And does anyone out there in the developer community believe that there will be a fix that will reformat the entire 2gb data partition to YAFFS2/EXT4/NILFS2 etc, as opposed to mounting a virtual file system on top of RFS? Or is it possible that Samsung themselves could remedy this with the 2.2 update?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Voodoo does that - ie mount /data as ext4
een625 said:
- OneClick Lagfix by RyanZA: Based on mimocan but using the internal SD card. Results are better than with basic mimocan and it is a lot easier to install.
This creates a file inside the 2GB partition that is mounted as /data.
Pros: very fast, lots of storage space for apps, easy to install and undo, available in the market.
Cons: if you install too many apps you won't be able to roll back the lag fix unless you delete some apps. Superseded by RyanZA lag fix 2.3 beta
Erroneous free space on Internal Phone storage (/data)
- CFLagFix by Chainfire: Based on mimocan, approximately the same as RyanZA's fix.
pretty much the same as OneClick Lagfix.
look above for Pros
Cons: unable to rollback changes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RyanZA - good, but slower than minocans when you have a lot of apps/use phone for a few days.
CFLagFix by Chainfire - you can rollback without any problems.
ashwinds said:
Voodoo does that - ie mount /data as ext4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So Voodoo actually reformats the space as EXT4, as opposed to mounting a virtual filesystem.... Interesting! I did read that Cyanogen were going to be using the Voodoo fix in their upcoming SGS firmware, will be keeping an eye on that for sure.
(Unless of course the official 2.2 remedies this.... though I'll keep an eye on Cyanogen anyway )
Do you have any information regarding development process of cyanogen for the SGS?
Any reason the voodoo fix is not mentioned? (Except for the fact we have to wait for beta2 to become available).
dagrim1 said:
Any reason the voodoo fix is not mentioned? (Except for the fact we have to wait for beta2 to become available).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably because if you don't already have it, it's not really available. V1 was a "private" beta, or semi-private anyways, and the dev has pulled it while he works on beta2.
distortedloop said:
Probably because if you don't already have it, it's not really available. V1 was a "private" beta, or semi-private anyways, and the dev has pulled it while he works on beta2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, makes sense and clear
Is a great (and my favorite so far) alternative though... Should become available this week though.
Voodoo is definitely the most promising method IF they can get the kinks worked out. We'll see it when it gets there
@een625 makes a pretty good short comparison of all the methods, but leaves out Supercurio's method. This should be added to the second post:
-Supercurio's lagfix (aka Voodoo beta 1): Significant improvements in performance which can also be benchmarked. Requires a custom kernel.
This reformats the /data mount point as ext4. The conversion is automatic on first boot and no data is lost.
Pros: very fast, does not affect the amount of storage for apps, doesn't impact free space reporting, uses ext4 for data integrity which some argue is unnecessary, easy to install, easy to uninstall.
Cons: Semi-private beta release only, must be specifically uninstalled to upgrade some firmwares, uses ext4 which some argue is significantly slower than ext2, no longer easily available while beta2 is finalized
I personally use this one right now, it is the only one that I have never experienced lag with at some point, even after almost five days of continuous uptime and heavy use. All the others have issues from time to time, especially with the Market and installing apps. This one does not, in my experience.
Also, I think that there should be some mention that mimocan's method requires a custom kernel, and also that mimocan is pretty much the same as apps2sd on other Android phones (uses ext3/4 in a partition on the external card). Additionally, a con to mimocan is that the user must manually partition and format the external card, all of the other methods can be done without user intervention other than flashing a PDA or running a script/apk.
Finally, dkcldark had an update.zip method posted very briefly that reformats the /data to nilfs or ext4. Looked promising, but was pulled for some reason.
And last but not least, please, please, please, let's not let this thread devolve into the ext2 vs ext4 debate that so many of the individual lag-fixe threads turn into. Perhaps a thread dedicated to that should be started (and stickied)?
distortedloop said:
And last but not least, please, please, please, let's not let this thread devolve into the ext2 vs ext4 debate that so many of the individual lag-fixe threads turn into. Perhaps a thread dedicated to that should be started (and stickied)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll keep the suggestion in mind
RAID lagfix?
Speed is one concern, potential damage to the flash card is another. I would prefer to replace my external card than the internal one.
Btw, is it technically impossible to implement more advanced solutions such as using a combination of NAND (for heavy apps / data) and sd (for other apps / "bulk" storage)?
Moreover, I think that it would be possible to have some kind a RAID 1 arrangement that would increase read speed and reliability (esp. if combined with EXT2). Just think 2GB on internal and 2GB on external card. (Most importantly having - probably - the first mobile phone with a raid configuration. RAID is easy to implement under Linux so I don't see why this is not examined.
Evans_Prophet said:
Speed is one concern, potential damage to the flash card is another. I would prefer to replace my external card than the internal one.
Btw, is it technically impossible to implement more advanced solutions such as using a combination of NAND (for heavy apps / data) and sd (for other apps / "bulk" storage)?
Moreover, I think that it would be possible to have some kind a RAID 1 arrangement that would increase read speed and reliability (esp. if combined with EXT2). Just think 2GB on internal and 2GB on external card. (Most importantly having - probably - the first mobile phone with a raid configuration. RAID is easy to implement under Linux so I don't see why this is not examined.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think I might have even suggested something like this before, but it was either overlooked or its too hard to do. But the idea (i did not think about RAID) is awesome.
I agree Voodoo lagfix is great but there is one problem/phenomena: CON: Big battery drains and we don't know where it's coming from :S
Wouldn't RAID put a big strain on the CPU?
I've tried MoDaCo, Mimocan and RyanZA lagfixes.. for a very brief review, I've to say that MoDaCo seems the fastest to me.. Followed by RyanZa 1-click lagfix and lastly the Mimocan lagfix. A pity that MoDaCo is limited to ~130mb of /dbdata space
Btw, just my personal opinion.. Some may disagree and feels that other lagfixes are faster.
lafaya said:
I agree Voodoo lagfix is great but there is one problem/phenomena: CON: Big battery drains and we don't know where it's coming from :S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That seems to be a YMMV kind of thing. I don't notice big battery drains with it, but there are those who say they do. Not sure if I am lucky, or others are unlucky.
Certainly couldn't hurt to do the whole wipe batterystats routine and see what's up after that.
Chainfire said:
It is by now well known the SGS has a lag issue (apps slow to launch, email slow to access, etc) that can be fixed by changing filesystems for parts of the device, to make it blazingly smooth.
There are several fixes available, some based on SD card, some used through PC, some based on kernel flashing, some based on on-device apps, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for doing this. I had been pushing for the change for the last couple of weeks since RyanZA and Tayutama particularly bought out their fixes. We now have a great range with Voodoo being the best atm imo.
Related
i've been reading up on compcache and the way that it works, but i'm pretty confused on how exactly this works on the android platform... i can't seem to pull the exact definition of compcache for android through all the chatter from threads, and it seems my answer gets lost in translation...
so to put it simply, i'm assuming from all my thread reading that compcache is actually based off the ext partition that you have on your SD card, and not on the RAM itself on the device? is this right? this is where i get confused, cause the compcache writers and developers say that it creates a ramzswap in the ram itself and stores compressed pages on the device RAM, effectively increasing the efficiency of your onboard RAM... in android's case and all the cooked ROMs, does it work off your SD card and your ext partition? or does it work off the RAM itself...
i'm currently running cyanogen's latest 32b release on my mytouch and its running extremely fast WITHOUT apps2sd, but i would like the benefits of compcache to prevent losing information from my browser and other applications like gtalk, which supposedly compcache helps with... would i have to create a ext partition and utilize apps2sd in order to utilize compcache? thanks in advance
bump... would like to be learned
I'm also a bit confused
i would like to know as well as i've installed Cyanogen v4.0.1
i went into the recovery console and formatted my SD choosing the option of "Format SD: fat32+ext2+swap"
was this the correct thing to do?
either way if you format cyanogen's rom with just a fat32, or fat32 + ext + swap, it doesn't matter as his rom is compatible with either apps2sd or without...
the question is, where does compache compress its file pages? in the RAM, or in the SD card
Compcache uses xMB of RAM as compressed swap space. No ext2 or swap files or swap partitions are needed (though the latter two can be used as "backing swap").
So on a 32B, with RAM limitations already, how is that a good thing?
PsychoI3oy said:
Compcache uses xMB of RAM as compressed swap space. No ext2 or swap files or swap partitions are needed (though the latter two can be used as "backing swap").
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks thats the answer i was looking for...
MikLSP said:
So on a 32B, with RAM limitations already, how is that a good thing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how is it NOT a good thing? compcache compresses page files, effectively increasing your RAM's efficiency and "technically" increasing its storage size in the allocated ramzswap... according to the developer's tests on different machines, it effectively makes it seem like it doubles the RAM amount on your computer...
this is nothing but good, especially for lower end machines like netbooks, and phones that have limited RAM allocation to begin with...
heres a small tidbit from the google source page
http://code.google.com/p/compcache/
i don't mean to threadjack, but compcache will be active regardless of whether or not i partition my sd card to fat32+ext2+swap...?
and i only have to partition my sd card to fat32+ext2+swap ONLY if i want apps2sd to work correctly using Cyanogenmod's rom...?
please correct me if i'm wrong.
i'm really wondering because even though i'm using Cyanogenmod's latest rom on my MyTouch, i still get considerable lag throughout such as typing on the virtual keyboard, screen orientation rotation, etc. i also use TasKiller.
maybe i'm expecting too much...
probably... lag from orientation, keyboard, and small things like this are still very common... i've tested a lot of roms on both the g1 and mytouch, and cyanogen's is by far the fastest...
As I have understood it sort of compresses things stored in the RAM (like background apps)
I've done a good amount of reading on compcache and have found that its been causing problems in my 4.0.1 build of cyanogen... the best thread i've found on the issue is:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=547752
hopefully users continue to share their findings, as the the thread mentioned is for the G1, and i'm sure optimal compcache settings will differ on the mytouch 3G... i will be doing some extensive testing on compcache only (due to me recently buying a 32gb micro card, and don't want to mess it up with linux swap) and will report my results... if anyone would like to join in, please post your findings as well...
Hello.
Right now I am on Cyanogen 4.2.15.1.
The biggest problem of G1 is imho lack of memory. I did every possible hack to make more memory available to my phone. I use compcache, 10mb hack etc..
I also tried swap, but it has been giving me some troubles and I find my phone working better without it.
I see everybody switching to 2.x roms and of course it makes me want to switch too although my phone runs pretty fine as it is now. But I would switch if I am convinced that things will improve. So here come the questions:
Did you experienced speed improvement by switching or it just runs the same/slower? (I am only interested in answers of G1 users as this is somehow a bit specific phone with the lack of memory)
My second question rose from my concerns of memory too. To use 2.x roms, one has to use DangerSPL, right? I am not sure about this, but I got the impression, that this one moves some of the memory from application runtime to rom space, so we can fit larger roms in. Does that mean, that in the end this rom has less operational memory for itself? Because that would be the exact opposite thing to what I want to do.
Thanks for the answers.
You as many others are confusing persistent storage with ram.
Ram is fast but will not store data over a reboot.. the amount of ram on the dream remains the same regardless of the spl/radio/rom (with maybe an exception of the 10mb hack that borrows 8mb from video ram for general use)
The persistent storage slow and is what danger spl changes.. this is the equivalent of your hard drive on a computer.
In the case of danger spl it significantly reduces the temporary space (cache) and increases both the core system storage (system) and the user space storage (data) this allows more on internal phone storage instead of the sdcard, having your core apps not using apps2sd is likely to increase perceived speed.
Since the memory (ram) is unchanged and the new kernels are better at memory management there is potential for newer versions to support more tasks at the same time than the older versions. (We are not there yet but cm-5.0.8-test4 and cm-4.2.15.1 seem similar in behavior in terms of what can be done with the ram avalible)
As for upgrading that's your choice.. in general on the dream anyway I don't recommend going to cm5.0.7 and related roms if you have not already done so.. and I never recommend a test version if you are not looking to be a tester. So I'd wait till cm5.0.8 final and related roms are pushed if you feel it's time to upgrade.
Otherwise if you are on a stable 1.6 rom that fills your needs and want to keep a very stable phone.. there is no need to rush the upgrade.. at some point you will find something that requires you to upgrade to 2.1 and will be glad it exists as it will improve the usefulness of the phone.. and I'm sure the stability of 2.1 will only improve over time.
Thank you for your answer.
I of course understand the difference between ram and persistent storage (rom?). The information I missed is that the additional memory is taken from the cache. Someone somwhere here posted something that implied that it reduces ram. Hackery!
Thank you for clearing that up. What are consequences of having less cache? Is this not a problem then?
You got my point with stable 1.6. I do not want to flash new rom every week and prefer stable working phone. The ONLY thing I was hoping for is the better memory management and maybe the whole rom footprint in ram, leaving more room for apps instead of system. I am running apps2sd but I think the main source of sluggishness of my phone is that apps are too often removed from ram by dalvik.
So I was hoping for something like " Yep, 2.1 is 50mb in ram instead of 80mb of 1.6 and you will have more free memory." That would make me switch. Having the same amount or even less makes no sense for me. I see no killer 2.x feature that I need to have so far.
Same amount of ram with both spls as I said. No 10mb hack on cm5 because the gpu is used for system operations
Cache is mounted as /cache and as I said contains temporary and cached data.. As designed its intended as a staging area, which will usually persist across reboots but may not under certain situations.
No performance impact ought to exist due to the resize. If too many things are attempted to be saved here you will get out of disk space errors.. but 30mb is plenty for the staging operations required by the system during normal operation.
As you may know: Linux never has "free" memory.. but reclaimable memory.. the reason for thus is anything read from persistent media is put into "disk cache" in case its needed again.. if the memory is needed for something else it will be freed at no/little cost, but if the cached files are needed they wont be reloaded thus saving the time reading disks/SD/flash.
(Thus why devs cringe when people show the output of free.. 'cat /proc/meminfo' will give full detailed breakdown of memory use if you qknow how to read it)
I am Linux guy myself, so I know how it manages the memory. Anyway, 10mb hack was a huge thing for me, can not live without it.
That pretty much means I am staying and 1.6, thank you for your time.
Can someone explain to me what is inside the vibrant that is used as storage.
People refer to the internal memory card, why, is it an actual memory card or is it simply because apps cannot be stored there.
Why is the app storage space limited to 2gb if the internal memory is 16gb, and if all 16gb resides on the same medium can't it just be symlinked similar to what people do with apps2sd on other phones with no detriment in performance?
Calcvictim said:
Can someone explain to me what is inside the vibrant that is used as storage.
People refer to the internal memory card, why, is it an actual memory card or is it simply because apps cannot be stored there.
Why is the app storage space limited to 2gb if the internal memory is 16gb, and if all 16gb resides on the same medium can't it just be symlinked similar to what people do with apps2sd on other phones with no detriment in performance?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are 2 storage types soldered onto the vibrant. NAND (fast, small) and "flash" (16g, slow).
The nand is split up for various things like booting, firmware (/system), cache, etc. And - to solve lag with their own apps - 128 megs of it is split out for the built-in apps to use. (That is the 'method 1' fix - move all app data to nand, where it is super fast.)
The 16 gigs of flash is much slower than nand, and split into 2 sections:
- /data (mmcblk0p1) is android apps, app storage, settings, etc. (2 gigs of "application space"). This is the standard android-phone onboard storage, and not accessible to the PC.
- /sdcard (mmcblk0p2) is the 14 gig media/misc space. Standard fat filesystem, shown when you plug into the PC. (They basically subverted the standard android sdcard handling for this - solves some problems, but causes others.)
The removable sd is mounted to "/sdcard/sd".
^ awesome post man, care if I stick it in the sticky?
Disconn3ct said:
There are 2 storage types soldered onto the vibrant. NAND (fast, small) and "flash" (16g, slow).
The nand is split up for various things like booting, etc. And - to solve lag with their own apps - 128 megs of it is split out for the built-in apps to use. (That is the 'method 1' fix - move all apps to nand, where it is super fast.)
The flash is much slower than nand, and split into 2 sections:
- /data is android apps, app storage, settings, etc. (2 gigs of "application space"). This is the standard android-phone onboard storage, and not accessible to the PC.
- /sdcard is the large media/misc space. Standard fat filesystem, shown when you plug into the PC. (They basically subverted the standard android sdcard handling for this - solves some problems, but causes others.)
The removable sd is mounted to "/sdcard/sd".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so RyanZA's lag fix, which creates a 1gb file system within the 2 gigs....why can't it be mapped outside of the original appspace since everything resides on flash anyway, the speeds should be the same, no?
s15274n said:
^ awesome post man, care if I stick it in the sticky?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure. (I wanted to doublecheck some info, so it is slightly updated.)
Calcvictim said:
so RyanZA's lag fix, which creates a 1gb file system within the 2 gigs....why can't it be mapped outside of the original appspace since everything resides on flash anyway, the speeds should be the same, no?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"mapped outside the original appspace"? Those words all make sense but not in that order
Data (and cache and so forth) all use samsung's proprietary RFS filesystem. (It has been described as "fat with wear levelling, unix perms and journalling".) The loopback mount fix basically bypasses all that and just shows rfs a large monolithic file. You lose reliability (journal) and flash protection (wear levelling, erase optimization) and so forth, but get speeds much closer to the raw flash. (Personally, I'm a fan of not prematurely destroying soldered on storage..)
One of the things to be tried is yaffs/jffs in place of rfs - all the advantages/protections with much better performance..
Disconn3ct said:
"mapped outside the original appspace"? Those words all make sense but not in that order
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand about the RFS, I just don't really understand why the appspace is limited to 2 gigs when there are 16 gigs on the same piece of silicon. Why is it not a matter of partitioning and mounting the other 16 gigs?
Calcvictim said:
I understand about the RFS, I just don't really understand why the appspace is limited to 2 gigs when there are 16 gigs on the same piece of silicon. Why is it not a matter of partitioning and mounting the other 16 gigs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, it's not "the other 16 gigs". It is 16 gigs total - 2 for apps/data, 14 for media/etc.
How pissed would you be if only kies (and adb) could get to that storage? That's why - 14 of it is presented as vfat, so that it can be exported over usb to the pc. You might be able to adjust the split a little (eg 8/8) using modified pit files and odin, but I wouldn't even count on that..
Certainly you can't share the space - android security guarantees that only the app (well, and root, but..) can read the app's files. Not the pc, not other apps. So you need something vfat hasn't got (owners, permissions) and you need to not export it to the pc where those limits won't be enforced. (Finally, you only get one fs user at a time - if you have it on the pc, you can't have it on the phone. "Please reboot into usb mode" hasn't been OK since the late 90s...)
Disconn3ct said:
First, it's not "the other 16 gigs". It is 16 gigs total - 2 for apps/data, 14 for media/etc.
How pissed would you be if only kies (and adb) could get to that storage? That's why - 14 of it is presented as vfat, so that it can be exported over usb to the pc. You might be able to adjust the split a little (eg 8/8) using modified pit files and odin, but I wouldn't even count on that..
Certainly you can't share the space - android security guarantees that only the app (well, and root, but..) can read the app's files. Not the pc, not other apps. So you need something vfat hasn't got (owners, permissions) and you need to not export it to the pc where those limits won't be enforced. (Finally, you only get one fs user at a time - if you have it on the pc, you can't have it on the phone. "Please reboot into usb mode" hasn't been OK since the late 90s...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, so if someone did modify the PIT file then it would be possible. It's not a hardware limitation, but just the way the firmware is setup.
What speed is the other 14Gb? How does it compare to standard microSD? Class 4 at least?
Calcvictim said:
Ok, so if someone did modify the PIT file then it would be possible. It's not a hardware limitation, but just the way the firmware is setup.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Modify the pit, and the bootloader, and (possibly) the rfs partition scheme, and (possibly) the kernel.
People found a pit that changes the layout a little bit and they're getting a higher-than-normal percentage of bricks. (I don't know how high, but look at all the odin threads that warn against using the new pit..) It is doable, but not reliable yet. Did you already fill 2 gigs of app storage? Thats .. kinda nuts.
applebook said:
What speed is the other 14Gb? How does it compare to standard microSD? Class 4 at least?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They claim class 6. With rfs, it is ok until you get to multiple requests - then it goes all thrashy instead of threading properly..
If it's around class 6, then I'm satisfied. Since that memory is for storing media, I have little use for anything much faster anyway.
Disconn3ct said:
People found a pit that changes the layout a little bit and they're getting a higher-than-normal percentage of bricks. (I don't know how high, but look at all the odin threads that warn against using the new pit..) It is doable, but not reliable yet. Did you already fill 2 gigs of app storage? Thats .. kinda nuts.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't fill the 2 gigs but I don't use the phone for media really, it's just apps and games and just wandering since it would be nice to have more storage for those things.
So what is the size difference between the Vibrants with the larger NAND and the smaller NAND?
What difference does this make in the real world?
Why would they put two different size NAND chips?
SamsungVibrant said:
Why would they put two different size NAND chips?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung does some weird things sometimes
Disconn3ct said:
"mapped outside the original appspace"? Those words all make sense but not in that order
Data (and cache and so forth) all use samsung's proprietary RFS filesystem. (It has been described as "fat with wear levelling, unix perms and journalling".) The loopback mount fix basically bypasses all that and just shows rfs a large monolithic file. You lose reliability (journal) and flash protection (wear levelling, erase optimization) and so forth, but get speeds much closer to the raw flash. (Personally, I'm a fan of not prematurely destroying soldered on storage..)
One of the things to be tried is yaffs/jffs in place of rfs - all the advantages/protections with much better performance..
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So are you saying that samsung's filesystem (rfs) causes wear and tear to the flash drive? Do any of the lag fixes that replace the rfs filesystem (ext 2/3/4) cause wear and tear to the drive as well? I am personally not applying a lag fix for this reason, but if samsung's rfs does that already, might as well take the plunge with a lag fix...
I read somewhere that the nexus one uses a filesystem created for flash drives - it started with a y, probably the yaffs that you spoke of?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
veol said:
So are you saying that samsung's filesystem (rfs) causes wear and tear to the flash drive? Do any of the lag fixes that replace the rfs filesystem (ext 2/3/4) cause wear and tear to the drive as well? I am personally not applying a lag fix for this reason, but if samsung's rfs does that already, might as well take the plunge with a lag fix...
I read somewhere that the nexus one uses a filesystem created for flash drives - it started with a y, probably the yaffs that you spoke of?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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I took him to mean that a loopback mount style lagfix, like OCLF, can cause premature deterioration.
Kubernetes said:
I took him to mean that a loopback mount style lagfix, like OCLF, can cause premature deterioration.
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That all depends on how samsung implemented wear leveling. It would be insanely stupid to do it in a way that would cause premature death of the flash with a loop file system though. Wear leveling is generally done at the block level so that file systems that have to write to fixed locations a lot like fat don't kill that block. As rfs is fat, I think it's unlikely that it will cause issues.
We can't use yaffs2 and friends without replacing the kernel driver for the flash. They don't work on block devices, they require raw flash access. I suspect it will also require a new secondary boot loader. I wouldn't attempt it without a dev phone and jtag access.
ttabbal said:
That all depends on how samsung implemented wear leveling. It would be insanely stupid to do it in a way that would cause premature death of the flash with a loop file system though. Wear leveling is generally done at the block level so that file systems that have to write to fixed locations a lot like fat don't kill that block. As rfs is fat, I think it's unlikely that it will cause issues.
We can't use yaffs2 and friends without replacing the kernel driver for the flash. They don't work on block devices, they require raw flash access. I suspect it will also require a new secondary boot loader. I wouldn't attempt it without a dev phone and jtag access.
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Ah... sorry for asking a noobish question and being off-topic a little, but if I were to use a lagfix, which one is best (for the flash drive)?
Thanks for the questions and the answers and for laying it out in understandable terms! A good read.
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Anyone know good partition settings for the sd card? I've been troubled simply because clockwork doesn't really do it all well. I'm using linux, I love the disk management on linux Thanks for the info!
What do you mean 'good partition settings'? Sizes or more like types of partitions like Linux Swap, ext2,3,4...? With Android there's not much use for anything beyond basic Linux partitions (0x83) like ext2,3,4 and Linux Swap (0x82). Even at that, ext2 is all you really need - maybe ext3 for good measure. This whole deal with ext4 is crazy since our file systems are not even remotely close to being large enough to see a benefit from ext4, only a very tiny slight benefit, almost unnoticeable for the most part. The placebo effect works wonders IMO. Might as well use it though, since it doesn't take anymore time.
As far as swap, we don't need it on this phone really and even with a class 6 card it still slows you down. Use compcache. It should be faster assuming current ROMs retain the fix cyanogen put in back in the G1 days.
thanks
KCRic said:
What do you mean 'good partition settings'? Sizes or more like types of partitions like Linux Swap, ext2,3,4...? With Android there's not much use for anything beyond basic Linux partitions (0x83) like ext2,3,4 and Linux Swap (0x82). Even at that, ext2 is all you really need - maybe ext3 for good measure. This whole deal with ext4 is crazy since our file systems are not even remotely close to being large enough to see a benefit from ext4, only a very tiny slight benefit, almost unnoticeable for the most part. The placebo effect works wonders IMO. Might as well use it though, since it doesn't take anymore time.
As far as swap, we don't need it on this phone really and even with a class 6 card it still slows you down. Use compcache. It should be faster assuming current ROMs retain the fix cyanogen put in back in the G1 days.
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Thanks. I ended up re flashing clockwork and the partition worked for some reason. On another note, I havent' been able to format my sd card directly from the android storage settings for some reason. This has happened on stock and any CM rom I use. Think I have a bad sd card?
llontop.m said:
Thanks. I ended up re flashing clockwork and the partition worked for some reason. On another note, I havent' been able to format my sd card directly from the android storage settings for some reason. This has happened on stock and any CM rom I use. Think I have a bad sd card?
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Could be but I've never had that issue before, nor have I heard of it happening - that's not to say it doesn't. Try to search around on here and see what you come up with. Try the Nexus 1 or G1 forums since you're more likely to find an answer there.
So suddenly I got the new market and with it like thousand of updates.
Problem is now I'm constantly running on low phone space.
All apps left that can not be moved to the SD-Card are a must have.
So deleting them is not an option
Except the ones that I can not uninstall (like Google Books) guess because they came preinstalled.
I can't even install some new apps as they require more space then I obviously have.
What are my options?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=670087
Move apps to SD (non-root and no apps required on phone)
I just did this yesterday with my Nexus One...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1001202
Read the FAQ, question 9.
I can not do this as I run a stock rom I think.
SocalVisor said:
I just did this yesterday with my Nexus One...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1001202
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DarsVaeda said:
I can not do this as I run a stock rom I think.
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Did you read?
From what I can tell, you do not need root to do this, just a working ADB connection. No additional on-phone software is required.
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Given your parameters, only solution is to partition your SD card, create an ext-flavored filesystem on one of the partitions, and run one of the available software solutions (referenced in the links above) to permit saving of ALL apps and app data (and dalvik cache) on the SD card.
If you do that, cheers to you, but do some critical thinking and research before buying into the Class 10 hype. Most benchmarks have shown that the bottleneck in the N1 SD read/write speed is not the speed of the card, but rather the combination of software and hardware that handles SD card input and output. In fact, on some benchmarks, Class 4 cards perform as well as Class 6 and Class 10, and in some, Class 10 cards underperform Class 4 (which may have to do with the different standards applicable to Class 10 versus 2,4, and 6...the older cards had to meet a certain minimum read/write speed on a fragmented card for a single large file transfer; for Class 10 the specification is sequential writes on a defragmented SD card -- if you ask me both specifications are insufficient...how about a spec that tests sequential operations on a fragmented card?).
Or, alternately, consider removing some apps. Unless you are a developer, I can't see that you "need" to have more apps than the admittedly meager flash allocation can handle. You may want them, and want them very badly, but I've always found that a self-critical distinction between needs and wants makes me happiest in the long run, because it's easy to ignore wants. If this doesn't work for you, look above. Whatever floats your submarine, man.
I never had any problems with the sd-card performance.
Doesn't matter anyway as my problem is that there are 9gigs of free space on the card but I fear I will soon run into the problem of being unable to install any more apps (even to the card) as the phone space is too low.
This actually happens already now when updating apps.
Unfortunatly I did not manage to get the adb thing working yet so I can not test SocialVisors solution.
I'm unrooted as well, and have this problem as well. I'm hoping the nexus prime hits soon enough (and on tmo).
Otherwise, I'll look into rooting (which I'd rather do, if I'm going to modify, I'll go all in), I think one of the benefits is being able to uninstall unwanted stock apps and keep them off. So like the amazon mp3 store, for instance.
Okay so I now managed to get ADB working.
I could move some heavy apps like swype. I could not move "Astrid Tasks" as then the widget does not work anymore. Hopefully that is the only app.
I am now back at 30MB free space.
But still there are some hughe apps, like Google Maps(11MB), that can not be moved at all.
And yes, Google Maps is a must have!
Did you read the FAQ?
Did you read rallyemax's answer, and put attention to the first paragraph?
Are you looking for a solution, or do you just want to complain?
tkirton said:
How to install:
NOTE: ROMS THAT ARE ORM (ORIGINAL ROM FROM MANUFACTURER...ALSO KNOWN AS STOCK ROMS) WILL NOT RUN ANY VERSION OF APPS2SD EXCEPT FROYO.
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I alread said I run a stock rom (not froyo).
The only one who is complaining is you.
You can just ignore this thread if you don't like it.
But thanks to everyone so far.
In that case, it's simple: you can't do a thing.
Your 2 options are:
1) Run a custom kernel over your stock ROM, or a custom ROM, and install A2SD support. Need to root / unlock the bootloader / hack the bootloader, of course.
2) Do nothing and don't look for solutions that don't exist, just accept the fact that you're stuck with less internal storage that you wanted.
No third option.