Database Users

Use or not swap file in SD card

Hi, I've searched the forum but found no answer. Searched google and found contradictory answers.
Should I use a swap file in SD card?
What are the advantages and disadvantages?
Thanks

brk said:
Hi, I've searched the forum but found no answer. Searched google and found contradictory answers.
Should I use a swap file in SD card?
What are the advantages and disadvantages?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Advantage: Allows more multitasking due to more memory use from the sd card.
Disadvantage: Shortens the sd card life.
If you plan to use swap or A2SD, I recommend getting a class 6 sd card. Some people are opposed to swap, some people are all up for it. It's just up to your preference. For me, swap is just nice that an app doesn't close when I'm using another app.

koreancanuck said:
Advantage: Allows more multitasking due to more memory use from the sd card.
Disadvantage: Shortens the sd card life.
If you plan to use swap or A2SD, I recommend getting a class 6 sd card. Some people are opposed to swap, some people are all up for it. It's just up to your preference. For me, swap is just nice that an app doesn't close when I'm using another app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A good answer but slightly incomplete. Most sdcards have wear leveling so having swap on your card will do very minimal damage.
brk said:
Hi, I've searched the forum but found no answer. Searched google and found contradictory answers.
Should I use a swap file in SD card?
What are the advantages and disadvantages?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want to have a swap file (swap.swp) this could possibly corrupt your fat partition. This is based on my own personal experience of course. I recommend use a swap partition honestly.
Just imagine mounting your sdcard to your computer to transfer files while your phone is still attempting to write to /sdcard/swap.swp. This can theoritically cause problems. And you don't want problems on your sdcard. A seperate partition is the safest way to go. But again... just my opinion.
Note that if you are using a rom based on Cyanogen's kernel (such as 5.0.7 or 5.0.8) it is NOT recommended to use swap at all. It will slow down your phone causing more problems than what it's worth. ('Swap grave' is how he put it.)

Binary100100 said:
If you want to have a swap file (swap.swp) this could possibly corrupt your fat partition.
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Click to collapse
How does that happen?

endolith said:
How does that happen?
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Click to collapse
If your system is writing to the .swp while you mount/unmount the sdcard it can corrupt the card. It's better to use the partition.
In addition if your system is setup to use the swap.swp on your fat32 partition and you mount it to your computer, what do you suppose would happen to your system since it can no longer have access to the .swp file?
Again... not a good idea.

I don't see how unmounting the swap partition is any different from unmounting the partition with a swap file on it.

Just say no!
endolith said:
I don't see how unmounting the swap partition is any different from unmounting the partition with a swap file on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, but other than when you shut down your phone, when does your swap partition get [un]mounted?

AdrianK said:
Right, but other than when you shut down your phone, when does your swap partition get [un]mounted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you plug it into a computer, isn't the whole SD card mounted?

endolith said:
When you plug it into a computer, isn't the whole SD card mounted?
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Click to collapse
Your computer's OS can only mount the filesystems it supports, for example OOTB Windows only supports FAT and NTFS, so it can't do anything with ext. Anyway, linux-swap is non-persistant, you can't mount it to view the contents, my understanding is that should you mount it on linux, the swap partition will be ignored.

AdrianK said:
Your computer's OS can only mount the filesystems it supports, for example OOTB Windows only supports FAT and NTFS, so it can't do anything with ext.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But the point is that they're all unmounted before the SD card can be shared with the computer as a mass storage device, so I don't see there being any difference between a swap partition and a swap file.
Besides, Swapper has a default "safe" option that unmounts swap before sharing SD with the computer and remounts it after disconnecting.

endolith said:
But the point is that they're all unmounted before the SD card can be shared with the computer as a mass storage device, so I don't see there being any difference between a swap partition and a swap file.
Besides, Swapper has a default "safe" option that unmounts swap before sharing SD with the computer and remounts it after disconnecting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasn't aware that Swapper has such a feature but that doesn't change the fact that if your running say ~200mb of RAM with ~64mb of swap and with all the multitasking that you're doing you're using up most of it... so say you have only ~10mb free. Then all of a sudden you pull out your sdcard. What do you think happen will happen? Your phone was reading and writing to that card! Do you think that's healthy? If Swapper unmounts it before it shares the sdcard with the computer then it may be better for the sdcard but I don't see how that can have a positive impact on the device. However if you have swap on a seperate partition the only way to run into this problem would be to remove the card from the device. Even if you mount the sdcard to the computer the phone still has access to the swap partition just like it still has access to the ext partition (if it has one).
I don't know about you but I have a 16gb class 6 card and it's a pain in the butt to restore my data to the fat partition so I would rather not have anything read/write to it unless necessary and to have something constantly reading and writing to it is a really bad idea in my case... but maybe you have a ~2gb and reloading the data may not be annoying to you.
Anyway... stick with what works. I've tried them all and based on my own experience I suggest the separate partition if you are going to use swap. But hey... what do I know?
By the way... do NOT use swap on CM5 or CM6. It may help at first but you'll be enroute to digging "a swap grave" (quoted by Cyanogen himself).

Your phone will ONLY share FAT when mounted to PC
Ext and Swap are still running on the phone(app2sd how do you think apps keep working after mounting?)
Same deal with Swap...
I personally do not use Swap although i do have a 128mb Swap Partition.

Binary100100 said:
I wasn't aware that Swapper has such a feature but that doesn't change the fact that if your running say ~200mb of RAM with ~64mb of swap and with all the multitasking that you're doing you're using up most of it... so say you have only ~10mb free. Then all of a sudden you pull out your sdcard. What do you think happen will happen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android routinely kills processes as part of its "task management", and the apps are expected to save their state using "Bundles" so that when you restart them, they restart in the same state they were last in. Is unplugging the swap more harsh than killing the app?
Once Android determines that it needs to remove a process, it does this brutally, simply force-killing it. The kernel can then immediately reclaim all resources needed by the process, without relying on that application being well written and responsive to a polite request to exit. Allowing the kernel to immediately reclaim application resources makes it a lot easier to avoid serious out of memory situations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if you mount the sdcard to the computer the phone still has access to the swap partition just like it still has access to the ext partition (if it has one).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm. When you mount the SD card, the entire SD card is available on the computer, including the FAT, EXT, and swap partitions, but the phone can't access the FAT partition?
I can see the contents of the swap partition from the computer with "sudo cat /dev/sdb3", but the phone can still access it? If I run "free" on the phone, it still shows swap, and the used size still changes, so I guess the phone is still using it, but the computer can see it at the same time, too.
In that case, I understand why it would make more sense to use swap partition than swap file.
I don't know about you but I have a 16gb class 6 card and it's a pain in the butt to restore my data to the fat partition so I would rather not have anything read/write to it unless necessary and to have something constantly reading and writing to it is a really bad idea in my case... but maybe you have a ~2gb and reloading the data may not be annoying to you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an 8 GB Class 6 and I don't understand what you're talking about. What do you mean "restore your data to the fat partition"? Restore it from what? What's the point of having an SD card if you don't want anything reading from it?
Anyway... stick with what works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By the way... do NOT use swap on CM5 or CM6. It may help at first but you'll be enroute to digging "a swap grave" (quoted by Cyanogen himself).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does that mean? Where did he say that? In what context?
I'm using swapper with CM5, and it's like buying a new phone. It greatly speeds up the phone's responsiveness.

I dunno why you can see all three partitions. When I've got my swap and extra partitions setup and mount my SD to my computer, the only partition that shows up is the FAT one, using Windows that is.
As for using swap, a quick Google search will show you a number of threads stating that the only time you see a real benefit from it is on the G1 an older mytouchs with the lower RAM space. Actually most say that using compcache is the better way to go if you've got the extra RAM space.
Sent from my HTC Magic using XDA App

endolith said:
What does that mean? Where did he say that? In what context?
I'm using swapper with CM5, and it's like buying a new phone. It greatly speeds up the phone's responsiveness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess nobody listens to the people that know what they are talking about. Then they always complain when it doesn't work properly. #Ironic
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13986716217
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13624854797
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13980541397
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13980541397
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13979643918
Enough for you?
And I'm aware that 2.2 automatically kills idle apps, which is all the more reason that you do not need swap.
And your phone cannot access the /sdcard or /mnt/sdcard partition while it is connected to your computer as removable storage. Try it.
Try downloading something to your sdcard while it's connected as removable storage. You can't. Your phone does not have access to the sdcard. In fact... while it's mounted to your computer go to settings SD card & phone storage settings and tell me what it says under Total space and Available space.
Do NOT use a large .swp file because your phone is constantly writing to the sdcard! All it takes is a single instance of removing it without unmounting it and you will have corrupted the entire contents of the fat partition. That is what I mean by restoring the data on the sdcard. I use an ADATA 16gb class 6 sdcard and each time that I tried with the .swp file I ended up losing my data because of random kernel crashes, dead battery, unsafe sdcard mounting etc.
But if you are really convinced of otherwise then go on ahead but I'll tell you right now, I will refuse to help anyone that never listened to my advice the first time. If I give a warning and if someone doesn't listen then it's all on them. I will personally refuse to help them and I wouldn't blame anyone for doing the same. Cyanogen warned users not to use swap. So those that have issues shouldn't complain to him or anyone else because it's their own fault.
All quotes from Cyanogen on twitter. You should follow him and learn something.
@w3stbr00k I don't know.. none of my roms have swap support built in. You would have had to do it yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@misscocogold t3 is otw in an hour or so. Make sure you aren't using swap or task killers too.
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@singharvinder the new code actually uses swap more aggressively as a side effect
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Click to collapse
@singharvinder are you using swap? Don't.
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Click to collapse
DonJuan692006 said:
I dunno why you can see all three partitions. When I've got my swap and extra partitions setup and mount my SD to my computer, the only partition that shows up is the FAT one.
As for using swap, a quick Google search will show you a number of threads stating that the only time you see a real benefit from it is on the G1 an older mytouchs with the lower RAM space. Actually most say that using compcache is the better way to go if you've got the extra RAM space.
Sent from my HTC Magic using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can actually access the swap partition from a Linux based OS such as Ubuntu/Live CD.
When you mount the sdcard you also have access to the ext2,3,4 partition if it's available.

See what I get for being Windows exclusive? Edited my first post to be more precise with my wording.

DonJuan692006 said:
I dunno why you can see all three partitions. When I've got my swap and extra partitions setup and mount my SD to my computer, the only partition that shows up is the FAT one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In Linux, both the SD and EXT partitions are mounted, but I can see and access all three. I can see all three partitions in Windows 7 Disk Management, too, but of course Windows can only mount the FAT partition.
a number of threads stating that the only time you see a real benefit from it is on the G1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got a G1.
Binary100100 said:
I guess nobody listens to the people that know what they are talking about. Then they always complain when it doesn't work properly. #Ironic
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm looking for truth, not rumor. I'm not going to blindly accept statements made without explanation.
Enough for you?
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Click to collapse
Nope. I want to understand why it's a bad idea. Twitter posts aren't exactly comprehensive.
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13986716217
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This is not a recommendation against swap. Someone was talking about disabling swap, and he said it's not his problem because CM doesn't come with swap enabled.
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13624854797
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Click to collapse
I read this as "If you're having problems with apps closing, disable swap and task managers. Maybe you have those configured wrong." That doesn't mean swap is inherently harmful.
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13980541397
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/13979643918
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This thread is about speed and performance, not harm.
And I'm aware that 2.2 automatically kills idle apps, which is all the more reason that you do not need swap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, this is the standard response in threads like this. "Android automatically manages tasks and memory, so you shouldn't try to second-guess it". But, empirically, swap makes the phone run better and faster.
If you switch to another app from the browser, for instance, the browser almost always gets killed, and then it has to reload the entire page from the Internet when you switch back to it. This takes wayyyy longer than reloading the state from swap, and causes problems when the web page is dynamic.
Many apps take much longer to start up than they should, or don't actually return to the same state when they're restarted, and swapping them out works better. I'm guessing the people who are happy with the stock system use their phones differently.
And your phone cannot access the /sdcard or /mnt/sdcard partition while it is connected to your computer as removable storage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I already agreed with that. Swap file is a bad idea since it's inaccessible when you mount on the computer, but swap partition still is. Agreed.

endolith said:
In Linux, both the SD and EXT partitions are mounted, but I can see and access all three. I can see all three partitions in Windows 7 Disk Management, too, but of course Windows can only mount the FAT partition.
I've got a G1.
I'm looking for truth, not rumor. I'm not going to blindly accept statements made without explanation.
Nope. I want to understand why it's a bad idea. Twitter posts aren't exactly comprehensive.
This is not a recommendation against swap. Someone was talking about disabling swap, and he said it's not his problem because CM doesn't come with swap enabled.
I read this as "If you're having problems with apps closing, disable swap and task managers. Maybe you have those configured wrong." That doesn't mean swap is inherently harmful.
This thread is about speed and performance, not harm.
Yes, this is the standard response in threads like this. "Android automatically manages tasks and memory, so you shouldn't try to second-guess it". But, empirically, swap makes the phone run better and faster.
If you switch to another app from the browser, for instance, the browser almost always gets killed, and then it has to reload the entire page from the Internet when you switch back to it. This takes wayyyy longer than reloading the state from swap, and causes problems when the web page is dynamic.
Many apps take much longer to start up than they should, or don't actually return to the same state when they're restarted, and swapping them out works better. I'm guessing the people who are happy with the stock system use their phones differently.
Yes, I already agreed with that. Swap file is a bad idea since it's inaccessible when you mount on the computer, but swap partition still is. Agreed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it sounds like you have answered the threads questions then. An expert such as yourself should have come along a while ago and stated this for the community. Now that you have discredited Cyanogen and all the other Senior Members and developers maybe I'll just direct all of my private messages regarding swap, compcache and userinit.sh scripts to you. Enjoy it!

Lag Fix VS Nand life

currently there is a few lag fix out there;
- Real Fix by mimocan
- One Click Lag Fix ver 1, ver 2 by RyanZA
- CFLagFix by Chainfire
- A2SD FIXLAG (in SamSet ROM) by setenza01
- HKT Fix by ykk_five
Lets not talk about speed. This thread objective is to talk about the memory life.
Do you prefer to burn the life of internal SD or External SD?
Internal SD is definately gentle on the battery life but not the case for External SD.
And since Ext SD may have a better write speed.....
To weight these out, which have a longer warranty?
So which you prefer, lets talk about it.

If we assume that these kinds of fixes do have a noticeable negative effect on your SD card (with noticeable I mean that you'll notice it before you upgrade/sell your phone), the fixes using the external SD cards would be the best way to go in pure lifetime as you can simply replace the external SD cards should it become corrupt in some way.
There's been a few posts about regarding the negative effect of extX on the internal SD card, as far as I've read however it seems the effect is so low that unless you keep your phone for about 5 years you won't notice it.
Please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not entirely confident with using extX file systems on my internal sd card either.

i like the fix that uses the External SD for this exact reason
External SD are cheap, and easily changeable
internal SD are not, so i'll only use internal SD for Apps that don't require much changes
I usually install all my Apps to External SD
i1fang said:
currently there is a few lag fix out there;
- Real Fix by mimocan
- One Click Lag Fix ver 1, ver 2 by RyanZA
- CFLagFix by Chainfire
- A2SD FIXLAG (in SamSet ROM) by setenza01
- HKT Fix by ykk_five
Lets not talk about speed. This thread objective is to talk about the memory life.
Do you prefer to burn the life of internal SD or External SD?
Internal SD is definately gentle on the battery life but not the case for External SD.
And since Ext SD may have a better write speed.....
To weight these out, which have a longer warranty?
So which you prefer, lets talk about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I can gaurentee you all that all of you will switch devices LONG before something happens to either the internal or the external SD.
NAND chips are more durable than you probably think.

Pika007 said:
I can gaurentee you all that all of you will switch devices LONG before something happens to either the internal or the external SD.
NAND chips are more durable than you probably think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know, it's easy to claim something like that, but if you would provide a source to that claim, it would be helpful for all.

XQC said:
You know, it's easy to claim something like that, but if you would provide a source to that claim, it would be helpful for all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.networkcomputing.com/data-center/how-long-does-nand-flash-memory-last.php
That might shed light on the issue, and seeing as the article is two years old I presume that the nand technology might be even more durable in 2010.
I personally use the NAND fix since I prefer battery life (53h on and 23% battery left at the moment with moderate usage) and there is so much else that can kill your phone before the NAND stops working.

Guys, guys! The EXT2 fixes are just buffering data to the SD card! (This isn't the system NAND you're thinking of, either!)
Let's say an application counts from 1 to 10, and writes the value each time to disk.
Stock:
1 -> App tells RFS to write 1 to disk -> RFS writes 1 to disk -> RFS writes journal saying to changed the value on the disk.
2 -> App tells RFS to write 2 to disk -> RFS writes 2 to disk -> RFS writes journal saying to changed the value on the disk.
..
9 -> App tells RFS to write 9 to disk -> RFS writes 9 to disk -> RFS writes journal saying to changed the value on the disk.
10 -> App tells RFS to write 10 to disk -> RFS writes 10 to disk -> RFS writes journal saying it changed the value on the disk.
Total physical disk writes: 20. Speed: SLOW! Wear and tear on disk: HIGH!
Lag Fix:
1 -> App tells EXT2 to write 1 to disk -> EXT2 stores 1 in RAM.
2 -> App tells EXT2 to write 2 to disk -> EXT2 stores 2 in RAM.
..
9 -> App tells EXT2 to write 9 to disk -> EXT2 stores 9 in RAM.
10 -> App tells EXT2 to write 10 to disk -> EXT2 stores 10 in RAM.
..
EXT2 tells RFS to write 10 to disk -> RFS writes 10 to disk -> RFS writes journal saying it changed the value on the disk.
Total physical disk writes: 2. Speed: FAST! Wear and tear on disk: LOW!
This isn't exactly what is happening, but it gives you the general idea.

XQC said:
You know, it's easy to claim something like that, but if you would provide a source to that claim, it would be helpful for all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SLC chips last a lot longer than MLC....Thats well known.
But that all depends on if wear leveling exists... If it isn't somehow implemented, expect pain.

Do any flash memory-based devices not implement controller-level wear leveling? I didn't think that had anything to do with the file system. After all, most SDHC cards are FAT32 formatted, and before that, SD cards generally used FAT16. Those file systems were invented before flash memory was around.

andrewluecke said:
SLC chips last a lot longer than MLC....Thats well known.
But that all depends on if wear leveling exists... If it isn't somehow implemented, expect pain.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just found this out
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/products/fusionmemory/Products_MoviNAND.html
We are consider quite safe, that the current MoviNAND is still based with 2bit MLC.
Can't imagine when we hit 3~4bit.
But do Samsung offer extended warranty for Galaxy S ?
iPhone does that.....

Going from the external sd fix to the internal ext 2 one seems to have improved my battery life
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

Lag issues with the SGS

It is by now well known the SGS has a lag issue (apps slow to launch, email slow to access, etc) that can be fixed by changing filesystems for parts of the device, to make it blazingly smooth.
There are several fixes available, some based on SD card, some used through PC, some based on kernel flashing, some based on on-device apps, etc.
At the time of this writing it is hard to say which is better. I would personally advise you to take a quick look around at which fixes are available.
Most of them are listed/referenced from the FAQ thread here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=723596
--
This is a placeholder post, the first method was stickied before but this seemed unfair to the other methods and may not be the method most suited to your device usage and situation. At this time, all of the fixes have their specific quirks and needs. Hopefully soon we will see a "much better than all the rest" fix soon from one of the devs here, or Samsung might even fix it themselves
If someone cares to write down a comparison between all the available methods at this time, feel free to post it in a reply here!

Great idea Chainfire.
When a user first decided to use a modified/custom/different firmware on their Samsung Galaxy S, they usually go through these steps:
1. Flash with Odin/Kies
2. Flash update.zip for root
3. Flash other update.zip (GPS fix, battery mod, etc) as necessary
4. Do a lag fix.
It took me a few hours and reading through countless posts to see the pro's and con's for each lag fix.
I will try to go through them as succintly as possible, and if anyone needs more explanation you can either click the link or do a search.
Feel free to correct me, this is how I see the lagfix as when I applied and tested it
Before starting, here is the internal structure of non volatile memory (where data persist after reboots) in Samsung Galaxy S:
- 128MB of very fast NAND (some people incorrectly called this ROM)
- 16/8GB of internal SD with 2GB set aside for application installs (this is why you see your internal SD as either 13+ or 5+ remaining, the 2GB shows up as Internal Phone storage)
- your micro SD card (external SD)
The lag is due to the inefficiency of the file system used in the 2GB (/data) partition for applications, stalling a lot of the read/write operation. You can search this for further reading if you want to.
Lag fixes
- MoDaCo's lagfix: Better than stock on old F/Ws but about the same as JM1/2/5 and JP1/2/3
This lagfix uses the 128MB very fast NAND to store your applications instead.
Pro: very very fast applications opening/switching performance
Cons: You are limited to 128MB of apps including built in apps .
- Mimocan's lagfix: Significant improvements in performance which can also be benchmarked. Requires an external SDcard formatted partly in fat and partly ext3 or ext4.
This moves the /data files into the ext3/ext4 partition on an external microSD card
Pros: very fast, lots of storage space for apps
Cons: You will be unable to unmount your external SD card when the phone is on, and you need an external SD card for this to work
- OneClick Lagfix by RyanZA: Based on mimocan but using the internal SD card. Results are better than with basic mimocan and it is a lot easier to install.
This creates a file inside the 2GB partition that is mounted as /data.
Pros: very fast, lots of storage space for apps, easy to install and undo, available in the market.
Cons: if you install too many apps you won't be able to roll back the lag fix unless you delete some apps. Superseded by RyanZA lag fix 2.3 beta
Erroneous free space on Internal Phone storage (/data)
There are still stalls when installing apps, and when accessing android applications database
- CFLagFix by Chainfire: Based on mimocan, approximately the same as RyanZA's fix.
pretty much the same as OneClick Lagfix.
look above for Pros
Cons: There are still stalls when installing apps, and when accessing android applications database
-Voodoo lag fix by supercurio: a new class of total lag fix
Instead of creating a file inside the rfs partition and mounting it as /data/data, the voodoo lag fix updates the kernel so that the the 2GB partition is using ext4 instead or rfs. This gives the best possible lag fix.
Pros: fast, smooth, across everything you do. The way galaxy s should have been in the first place. The best and most consistent lag fix with no remaining lag left that is caused by rfs.
Support with other kernel mods are starting to show: backlight mod, OC/UV kernel
Cons: Incompatible with clockworkmod recovery
I am now using voodoo lagfix beta 4 only
http://project-voodoo.org/
I hope this helps

So, I usually read a lot on the Android Dev side of the SGS since I am very keen on a fix that will eliminate the lagging issues on the phone. I was in Spain for a holiday at the end of August and have come home to find a new 'Project Voodoo' fix being touted around. What sort of method does this fix entail?
And does anyone out there in the developer community believe that there will be a fix that will reformat the entire 2gb data partition to YAFFS2/EXT4/NILFS2 etc, as opposed to mounting a virtual file system on top of RFS? Or is it possible that Samsung themselves could remedy this with the 2.2 update?

sionyboy said:
And does anyone out there in the developer community believe that there will be a fix that will reformat the entire 2gb data partition to YAFFS2/EXT4/NILFS2 etc, as opposed to mounting a virtual file system on top of RFS? Or is it possible that Samsung themselves could remedy this with the 2.2 update?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Voodoo does that - ie mount /data as ext4

een625 said:
- OneClick Lagfix by RyanZA: Based on mimocan but using the internal SD card. Results are better than with basic mimocan and it is a lot easier to install.
This creates a file inside the 2GB partition that is mounted as /data.
Pros: very fast, lots of storage space for apps, easy to install and undo, available in the market.
Cons: if you install too many apps you won't be able to roll back the lag fix unless you delete some apps. Superseded by RyanZA lag fix 2.3 beta
Erroneous free space on Internal Phone storage (/data)
- CFLagFix by Chainfire: Based on mimocan, approximately the same as RyanZA's fix.
pretty much the same as OneClick Lagfix.
look above for Pros
Cons: unable to rollback changes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RyanZA - good, but slower than minocans when you have a lot of apps/use phone for a few days.
CFLagFix by Chainfire - you can rollback without any problems.

ashwinds said:
Voodoo does that - ie mount /data as ext4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So Voodoo actually reformats the space as EXT4, as opposed to mounting a virtual filesystem.... Interesting! I did read that Cyanogen were going to be using the Voodoo fix in their upcoming SGS firmware, will be keeping an eye on that for sure.
(Unless of course the official 2.2 remedies this.... though I'll keep an eye on Cyanogen anyway )

Do you have any information regarding development process of cyanogen for the SGS?

Any reason the voodoo fix is not mentioned? (Except for the fact we have to wait for beta2 to become available).

dagrim1 said:
Any reason the voodoo fix is not mentioned? (Except for the fact we have to wait for beta2 to become available).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably because if you don't already have it, it's not really available. V1 was a "private" beta, or semi-private anyways, and the dev has pulled it while he works on beta2.

distortedloop said:
Probably because if you don't already have it, it's not really available. V1 was a "private" beta, or semi-private anyways, and the dev has pulled it while he works on beta2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, makes sense and clear
Is a great (and my favorite so far) alternative though... Should become available this week though.

Voodoo is definitely the most promising method IF they can get the kinks worked out. We'll see it when it gets there

@een625 makes a pretty good short comparison of all the methods, but leaves out Supercurio's method. This should be added to the second post:
-Supercurio's lagfix (aka Voodoo beta 1): Significant improvements in performance which can also be benchmarked. Requires a custom kernel.
This reformats the /data mount point as ext4. The conversion is automatic on first boot and no data is lost.
Pros: very fast, does not affect the amount of storage for apps, doesn't impact free space reporting, uses ext4 for data integrity which some argue is unnecessary, easy to install, easy to uninstall.
Cons: Semi-private beta release only, must be specifically uninstalled to upgrade some firmwares, uses ext4 which some argue is significantly slower than ext2, no longer easily available while beta2 is finalized
I personally use this one right now, it is the only one that I have never experienced lag with at some point, even after almost five days of continuous uptime and heavy use. All the others have issues from time to time, especially with the Market and installing apps. This one does not, in my experience.
Also, I think that there should be some mention that mimocan's method requires a custom kernel, and also that mimocan is pretty much the same as apps2sd on other Android phones (uses ext3/4 in a partition on the external card). Additionally, a con to mimocan is that the user must manually partition and format the external card, all of the other methods can be done without user intervention other than flashing a PDA or running a script/apk.
Finally, dkcldark had an update.zip method posted very briefly that reformats the /data to nilfs or ext4. Looked promising, but was pulled for some reason.
And last but not least, please, please, please, let's not let this thread devolve into the ext2 vs ext4 debate that so many of the individual lag-fixe threads turn into. Perhaps a thread dedicated to that should be started (and stickied)?

distortedloop said:
And last but not least, please, please, please, let's not let this thread devolve into the ext2 vs ext4 debate that so many of the individual lag-fixe threads turn into. Perhaps a thread dedicated to that should be started (and stickied)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll keep the suggestion in mind

RAID lagfix?
Speed is one concern, potential damage to the flash card is another. I would prefer to replace my external card than the internal one.
Btw, is it technically impossible to implement more advanced solutions such as using a combination of NAND (for heavy apps / data) and sd (for other apps / "bulk" storage)?
Moreover, I think that it would be possible to have some kind a RAID 1 arrangement that would increase read speed and reliability (esp. if combined with EXT2). Just think 2GB on internal and 2GB on external card. (Most importantly having - probably - the first mobile phone with a raid configuration. RAID is easy to implement under Linux so I don't see why this is not examined.

Evans_Prophet said:
Speed is one concern, potential damage to the flash card is another. I would prefer to replace my external card than the internal one.
Btw, is it technically impossible to implement more advanced solutions such as using a combination of NAND (for heavy apps / data) and sd (for other apps / "bulk" storage)?
Moreover, I think that it would be possible to have some kind a RAID 1 arrangement that would increase read speed and reliability (esp. if combined with EXT2). Just think 2GB on internal and 2GB on external card. (Most importantly having - probably - the first mobile phone with a raid configuration. RAID is easy to implement under Linux so I don't see why this is not examined.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think I might have even suggested something like this before, but it was either overlooked or its too hard to do. But the idea (i did not think about RAID) is awesome.

I agree Voodoo lagfix is great but there is one problem/phenomena: CON: Big battery drains and we don't know where it's coming from :S

Wouldn't RAID put a big strain on the CPU?

I've tried MoDaCo, Mimocan and RyanZA lagfixes.. for a very brief review, I've to say that MoDaCo seems the fastest to me.. Followed by RyanZa 1-click lagfix and lastly the Mimocan lagfix. A pity that MoDaCo is limited to ~130mb of /dbdata space
Btw, just my personal opinion.. Some may disagree and feels that other lagfixes are faster.

lafaya said:
I agree Voodoo lagfix is great but there is one problem/phenomena: CON: Big battery drains and we don't know where it's coming from :S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That seems to be a YMMV kind of thing. I don't notice big battery drains with it, but there are those who say they do. Not sure if I am lucky, or others are unlucky.
Certainly couldn't hurt to do the whole wipe batterystats routine and see what's up after that.

Chainfire said:
It is by now well known the SGS has a lag issue (apps slow to launch, email slow to access, etc) that can be fixed by changing filesystems for parts of the device, to make it blazingly smooth.
There are several fixes available, some based on SD card, some used through PC, some based on kernel flashing, some based on on-device apps, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for doing this. I had been pushing for the change for the last couple of weeks since RyanZA and Tayutama particularly bought out their fixes. We now have a great range with Voodoo being the best atm imo.

Partition SD

Anyone know good partition settings for the sd card? I've been troubled simply because clockwork doesn't really do it all well. I'm using linux, I love the disk management on linux Thanks for the info!

What do you mean 'good partition settings'? Sizes or more like types of partitions like Linux Swap, ext2,3,4...? With Android there's not much use for anything beyond basic Linux partitions (0x83) like ext2,3,4 and Linux Swap (0x82). Even at that, ext2 is all you really need - maybe ext3 for good measure. This whole deal with ext4 is crazy since our file systems are not even remotely close to being large enough to see a benefit from ext4, only a very tiny slight benefit, almost unnoticeable for the most part. The placebo effect works wonders IMO. Might as well use it though, since it doesn't take anymore time.
As far as swap, we don't need it on this phone really and even with a class 6 card it still slows you down. Use compcache. It should be faster assuming current ROMs retain the fix cyanogen put in back in the G1 days.

thanks
KCRic said:
What do you mean 'good partition settings'? Sizes or more like types of partitions like Linux Swap, ext2,3,4...? With Android there's not much use for anything beyond basic Linux partitions (0x83) like ext2,3,4 and Linux Swap (0x82). Even at that, ext2 is all you really need - maybe ext3 for good measure. This whole deal with ext4 is crazy since our file systems are not even remotely close to being large enough to see a benefit from ext4, only a very tiny slight benefit, almost unnoticeable for the most part. The placebo effect works wonders IMO. Might as well use it though, since it doesn't take anymore time.
As far as swap, we don't need it on this phone really and even with a class 6 card it still slows you down. Use compcache. It should be faster assuming current ROMs retain the fix cyanogen put in back in the G1 days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. I ended up re flashing clockwork and the partition worked for some reason. On another note, I havent' been able to format my sd card directly from the android storage settings for some reason. This has happened on stock and any CM rom I use. Think I have a bad sd card?

llontop.m said:
Thanks. I ended up re flashing clockwork and the partition worked for some reason. On another note, I havent' been able to format my sd card directly from the android storage settings for some reason. This has happened on stock and any CM rom I use. Think I have a bad sd card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could be but I've never had that issue before, nor have I heard of it happening - that's not to say it doesn't. Try to search around on here and see what you come up with. Try the Nexus 1 or G1 forums since you're more likely to find an answer there.

8 GB of RAM - Creating a RAM drive?

Hi all!
Just an idea, would it be feasible to use say 2GB of RAM for a drive used to store pictures on, for even better performance? Or is the UFS 2.1 just as fast?
This is an idea for a custom ROM feature, hence the chosen forum section!
Kind Regards
TwinAdk

LPDDR4 is much faster, But as we know RAM is a volatile memory and what ever you do goes puff!!!
Unless we create a dump of the ram when rebooting/shutdown-ing

shazzy1 said:
LPDDR4 is much faster, But as we know RAM is a volatile memory and what ever you do goes puff!!!
Unless we create a dump of the ram when rebooting/shutdown-ing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point! Possibly create a control panel to control the usage of the ram drive, and have the content moved from RD to defined destination when the app that saves the data (camera app, download manager, Chrome, Firefox, etc) is no longer in focus?
And then symlink between locations so the system is left clueless :good::victory:
Great ideas here!!
Sent from my NEM-L21 using XDA Labs

LOL! Almost the same question, 30 minutes earlier...
https://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-5/help/best-to-extra-ram-t3625570

Linux probably supports RAM drives out of the box, so I doubt it would be that much work.
What the heck are you doing with pictures on a phone that you require better performance than UFS 2.1?

Chaleman said:
LOL! Almost the same question, 30 minutes earlier...
https://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-5/help/best-to-extra-ram-t3625570
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, though that's general cache thoughts, this is the creation of a drive, usable by any app, or the user Great minds think alike!
ABotelho23 said:
Linux probably supports RAM drives out of the box, so I doubt it would be that much work.
What the heck are you doing with pictures on a phone that you require better performance than UFS 2.1?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm just thinking of the write speed that will increase. Then the content can be loaded off the drive when the user is leaving it idle. It will give an even better experience when writing stuff to disk. Do you see the potential that the users write command is done instantly, so the user can move on with things. The system can then handle the offload in the background when the user do not have to wait
I would love that feature!
Kind Regards
TwinAdk
Sent from my NEM-L21 using XDA Labs

Not sure if swap is still in use, but on my old Xperia (and a couple of others) swap was created as a RD and supposedly it helped a lot. With a beast like OP5 though not sure if that would help and if this is still in place and used .. I stopped following a couple threads when I broke that Xperia so kind of digging from memory

caki25 said:
Not sure if swap is still in use, but on my old Xperia (and a couple of others) swap was created as a RD and supposedly it helped a lot. With a beast like OP5 though not sure if that would help and if this is still in place and used .. I stopped following a couple threads when I broke that Xperia so kind of digging from memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On older phones I guess RD makes more sense, but as long as RAM is faster than disk (and you have RAM to spare) RD makes some sense :silly:
Sent from my NEM-L21 using XDA Labs

caki25 said:
Not sure if swap is still in use, but on my old Xperia (and a couple of others) swap was created as a RD and supposedly it helped a lot. With a beast like OP5 though not sure if that would help and if this is still in place and used .. I stopped following a couple threads when I broke that Xperia so kind of digging from memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Swap created as ramdisk? That doesn't make any sense. Mounting a ramdisk as swap is worse than useless.

davfiala said:
Swap created as ramdisk? That doesn't make any sense. Mounting a ramdisk as swap is worse than useless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it does, if you use compression to sort of extend the size of the memory. If configured properly, it might bypass android's swappiness, but still keep the app's data in RAM for faster switchover. Not the most elegant solution, but it just might work. With so much memory that the OP5 has, that it can't really exhaust it, it's a bit pointless.
TwinAdk said:
On older phones I guess RD makes more sense, but as long as RAM is faster than disk (and you have RAM to spare) RD makes some sense :silly:
Sent from my NEM-L21 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, agreed, was just thinking aloud. I don't see that much into the internals of Android, but as you said earlier, some sort of quick cache might be worth a shot.

Running a ramdisk as a mount for /tmp is a common trick on Linux to make processes that write a lot of tempfiles run a bit faster. I don't know how Android handles tempfiles, but if it stores them all in one place like on GNU-style systems in should work as well. But I suspect not many Android apps write tempfiles anyway...

TwinAdk said:
Yeah, though that's general cache thoughts, this is the creation of a drive, usable by any app, or the user Great minds think alike!
I'm just thinking of the write speed that will increase. Then the content can be loaded off the drive when the user is leaving it idle. It will give an even better experience when writing stuff to disk. Do you see the potential that the users write command is done instantly, so the user can move on with things. The system can then handle the offload in the background when the user do not have to wait
I would love that feature!
Kind Regards
TwinAdk
Sent from my NEM-L21 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course the write speed will increase. But for pictures, would it not be negligible?

ABotelho23 said:
Of course the write speed will increase. But for pictures, would it not be negligible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it would be :laugh:
Sent from my NEM-L21 using XDA Labs

using tmpfs would be much easier than a ramdisk.
off the top of my head you would need to work out a few things
if you wanted it to be 'persistent' you would need to run some kind of scheduled rsync or background process to sync the data (lsync) to a dir on the ufs filesystem
either way you open yourself to data loss if during the scheduled window, or during the lsync, the phone reboots or crashes
you would also need to write an init script to create the tmpfs mount and sync back the data from the ufs filesystem
What would be a good candidate for 'ultra fast data'? Maybe the dir the camera stores files? What about the cached data each app stores?... you would probably have to limit this to a certain set of apps because you could run into an issue with space depending on how large you make the tmpfs mount...is that even something possible? I can't remember I haven't look at where the cache is stored

A memcached style setup might be nice... But that's probably similar to how the "app priority" feature works.

I'm actually looking for a way to create a ramdisk on my OnePlus 3T.
Is there any detailed description/explanation of how to make one or if there are any apps available that can do it for me?
Respond asap.

LOS ER said:
I'm actually looking for a way to create a ramdisk on my OnePlus 3T.
Is there any detailed description/explanation of how to make one or if there are any apps available that can do it for me?
Respond asap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to bump up old thread, but maybe other are googling and directed here. So I better post my finding here and maybe other can benefit.
I have been searching for the holy grail for so long and finally found it. I am using RN5 whyred and trying to reserve 100 MB RAM for temporary storage and file processing for my Automagic flow. It is meant to reduce write cycle on the emmc. I have been trying to mount tmpfs on the /storage/emulate/0 and found out not working, the file still stored on emmc. Because I tried to reboot and the file still there.
I am currently using custom ROM AEX 6.7 Pie 9.0. When I use command mount, I can find tmpfs is mounted on /storage/self. So I thought to create a new folder inside it and chmod 777, /storage/self/ramdrive. Then I copy file to it using MiXplorer. And the speed is amazing.
I then check on the command free | grep Shmem
The size is increasing, means the RAM is being used for the storage. Deleting the file will reduce it, so it is working !
Testing copying file to internal storage, 750 MB takes about 12 seconds, while copy to the ramdrive takes about 5 seconds. Leave the file at ramdrive and restart the phone, the file disappear. So it is confirmed that the file is stored at RAM.
So for other, if you want to mount ramdrive, you need root. You need at least terminal emulator. But MiXplorer with root access can also create the folder. Try to check your tmpfs file first using
Code:
mount | grep tmpfs
I found several and use /storage/self. So I create additional folder there
Code:
mkdir /storage/self/ramdrive
chmod 777 /storage/self/ramdrive
This folder disappear at every reboot, so I use Automagic startup to recreate it at every reboot.
I then point my flow to save or process file at that path. By default the limit is half from the total RAM, which is 2 GB from my 4 GB RAM. I am thinking to find the script to limit the size, but rather than playing with the mount script, I better disciplined my flow to not store too much here.
Using the ramdrive, now I can lavishly store and delete temporary file there without worrying reducing my emmc lifespan.

I know, topic is old... But I found this discussion while searching for a solution to my problem, which is as follows:
I want to run a Dos emulator on my android device (to play windows 3.11 and dos games). I will do it with Magic Dosbox or even Limbo PC Emulator.
Point is: given the poor lifespan of sd cards and internal storage of mobile devices, it would be great if I could run such DOS "virtual machines" on ram disks, to avoid degrading the mobile's storage with all the read/write methods on the disk image (in case of Limbo) or in the folder (in case of Magic Dosbox).
So, I ask:
a) do Magic Dosbox have this feature? (I didn't find it on the documentation)
b) can I prepare a ram disk before running Magic Dosbox, to load a specific folder content or a specific disk image?