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Touch Pro vs. Xperia - A non-professional view

Touch Pro vs Xperia
Touch Pro and Xperia are both extremely powerful sets, but when you come to the point of deciding among the two, it can drive you insane. I know because i spent quite a few days contemplating over the same question. And thus here i try to do a short comparison between the two which may be of use to you.
So here we go...
1. Xperia has more RAM. Infact almost 100 MB more. Which is simply awesome, especially if you are looking to port heavy games onto the mobile or run tons of software. How much RAM will panels take up is a big question, but keep in mind that if needed you could release the RAM taken up by Panels by disabling them or setting them however you want. (Loading 9 heavy panels will probably take more RAM than keeping 9 basic or default panels)
2. When it comes to Screen, Touch Pro has a smaller screen (2.8'' where as Xperia has 3'') and also lacks in resolution. So Xperia walks out a winner here as well.
3. In regard to camera, Touch Pro and Xperia both have the same camera in terms of MP - 3.2. And both have a camera flash... but considering which one is superior in terms of camera quality, my money is on Sony Ericsson. 'Cos if one thing Sony Ericsson knows best, it is its Camera... so i can pretty much say that Xperia's 3.2 MP camera would be enough to take on the Touch Pro's camera. Video recording is in both, but here the Touch Pro lags behind in video capture resolution. Both mobiles also come with a second camera on the front for video conferencing. So the way i see it, video capture quality improved and with SE's track record of camera performance, Xperia is the winner here.
4. Main interface -
Touch Flo 3d is superb looking. But Xperia Panels are not behind. Though Touch Flo 3D is shiny and extremely attractive, it lacks big time in customization. With Panels, customization is the key... and with time as developers start releasing new panels, we will probably see some really awesome stuff in terms of functionaity as well looks. Not to mention, the way you switch panel mode (fan, side-by-side, etc.) is nothing short. So if you are one who loves to have the possibility of as much customization as possible, like me, then Xperia wins here. And in my opinion, in terms of functionality and extendibility Xperia again wins here. Furthermore, with the release of Touch HD sporting the same resolution as Xperia and coming with touch Flo 3D, we can actually hope for someone to pull a rip off of the Touch Flo 3D from the HD onto the Xperia sometime soon...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TF3D has not been ported onto Xperia and man! does it run fast or what! And you have the Panel interface active too! That is just AWESOME!
5. Battery - Xperia carries a bigger battery than Touch Pro. Though how much time each will provide, we can't say for sure at this point... My cousin has the Touch Diamond and he says that its weakest factor is its battery. (Keep in mind that Touch Pro has a larger battery than the Diamond)
6. Manufacturer - HTC vs. SE. This is SE's first WinMo device, so concerns arise... but given the fact that HTC was behind in this device's manufacturing as well, i say that we can rely on the device.
7. Accelerometer - The major feature missing from Xperia is the Accelerometer. But other than putting a lid on some possibly cool games, i don't have much concern over this. But of course, here the Xperia is beaten by the Touch Pro!
8. Keyboard - The keyboard on Touch Pro is considered to be the best one out there. As for the Xperia keyboard, we can't say anything for sure about it at this point till the final device hits the market, but taking into account its prototype models, the keyboard on Xperia is behind the Touch Pro.
9. Set Build - The touch pro and Xperia are almost of the same width. Second, the metal look of Xperia is exquisite. Touch Pro's look is really great too, but fingerprints tend to show on the case more than you can imagine. (unless you get the sprint version which has a different back). Third, Xperia is definitely lighter - even though it has a steel case.
10. Navigation - Depends on which one you like, the optical joystick on Xperia or the HTC Wheel.
Other than that, basic differences are there... LED indicators on the Xperia, and In Call Recording in Touch Pro (not sure about this, it is in Touch HD but not sure if in Pro), but none too major to consider here.
Conclusion: From where I sit, Xperia is a winner with its sexy look (c'mon. it. is. steel!), fully customizable interface (panels), more RAM, those LEDs (kinda cool) and more. Plus. There. is. the. fish! panel.
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Click to collapse
Updated Conclusion: From where i sit, Xperia is a winner all the way. If you definitely require Accelerometer and TV-Out then go for the Pro, but you'll be missing out on a lot.
Hope this helps...
And if anyone feels like it, then add to the list anything you want.
Best Regards.
Salman Khalid.

(According to GSM Arena; Xperia also has a secondary video-call camera. Can anyone confirm this?)
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uhm, it's definitely there, nobody would make a flagship phone without video call capability today..., check SE site if you still doubt.
8. Accelerometer - The major feature missing from Xperia is the Accelerometer. But other than putting a lid on some possibly cool games, i don't have much concern over this. But of course, here the Xperia is beaten by the Touch Pro!
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this is definitely one of my biggest disappointment w/ X1 and one of the things that make me thinking over and over again if I will buy X1, there's also a rather very high probability that this will make X1 suffers badly in the future when WM7 is out.
11. Navigation - Depends on which one you like, the optical joystick on Xperia or the HTC Wheel.
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most people don't know this, but X1 also have 5 ways traditional d-pad which blend seamlessly with that optical joystick - always makes me wonder why it should be called joystick anyway, optical scroll pad would be more fit -
Other than that, basic differences are there... LED indicators on the Xperia, and In Call Recording in Touch Pro (not sure about this, it is in Touch HD but not sure if in Pro), but none too major to consider here.
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X1 also have in call recording feature, I've seen the video in which showing the icon of this feature.
ah 1 other thing, this is going to be nuts, but aside from bengalboy preview and a video from an italian magazine, no other previews out there seemed know about the display rotation button in the X1, and recently somebody said in other forum that the button is missing in the X1 picture @ official SE website if X1 really can't rotate it's display without opening the keyboard then it would be a suicide for SE.

nap007 said:
uhm, it's definitely there, nobody would make a flagship phone without video call capability today..., check SE site if you still doubt.
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Thanks for confirming...
nap007 said:
this is definitely one of my biggest disappointment w/ X1 and one of the things that make me thinking over and over again if I will buy X1, there's also a rather very high probability that this will make X1 suffers badly in the future when WM7 is out.
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Was mine too, till i found out that WM7 is delayed to somewhere in late 2009 or 2010... so no biggie about that. (even if we move to WM7, the only feature i think'll be missing would be gestures, and we can probably live without that)
The only thing about accelerometer is that you miss out on some cool applications/games using that. But i can live without those as well they aren't too huge to be concerned over.
nap007 said:
most people don't know this, but X1 also have 5 ways traditional d-pad which blend seamlessly with that optical joystick - always makes me wonder why it should be called joystick anyway, optical scroll pad would be more fit -
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I knew that but called it a joystick as almost every site lists it that way. (i never knew why 'cos it is a pad and no joystick popping out) The d-pad actually seems very awesome!
nap007 said:
X1 also have in call recording feature, I've seen the video in which showing the icon of this feature.
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Cool... see this is the second thing i didn't know.
nap007 said:
ah 1 other thing, this is going to be nuts, but aside from bengalboy preview and a video from an italian magazine, no other previews out there seemed know about the display rotation button in the X1, and recently somebody said in other forum that the button is missing in the X1 picture @ official SE website if X1 really can't rotate it's display without opening the keyboard then it would be a suicide for SE.
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The button will definitely be there. Magnus mentioned it in one of his video demonstrations... and i've seen others mention it as well. I'll try to look for it...
So now the biggest - and only - drawback of the X1 seems to be the accelerometer. Other than that, it is ahead of Touch Pro in various regards...
I've made up my mind, now you should too.
Best Regards.

The button will definitely be there. Magnus mentioned it in one of his video demonstrations... and i've seen others mention it as well. I'll try to look for it...
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but they never used it, even Magnus himself opened the keyboard everytime! This scarres me
*edit*
I would also like to share my opinion that already posted in my thread...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=430501
especially these points :
+/- I like the panels, but IMO in their current condition they feel somewhat raw and lack of polish; the poker style stacked panels are useless and a waste of resources they should have been created something more functional for example like windows XP's filmstrip folder viewing style in which we could be able to switch between panels without having to press the panels button -which feel like unnecessary 'back' button-
- and with my previous point they should have add an accelerometer, so that other than finger swiping between panels (ala touch flo) perhaps we should be able to shake the X1 to switch between panels. (oh come on SE, even W910 had this, why not your flagship?)
- I'm not convinced as to whether SE has done a good job in reshaping the default WinMo UI or not, in fact based on previews, I didn't see anything has been done to it, they (SE) just babbling over and over and over about the panels
- I'm also worried about the pre-installed software, there are no info about anything else than Opera and handago client (which are quite useless in my country due to slow, somewhat unstable and rather expensive 3G cost) that will come with the phone, and it caught my eye that they integrated contacts in multimedia panels! Isn't it weird?
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Click to collapse

nap007 said:
but they never used it, even Magnus himself opened the keyboard everytime! This scarres me
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Lol! yeah... he does use the keyboard to switch the screen in every video. Though this button to switch the screen has been talked about in many videos, only two or so actually show it. From what i understand, this functionality was confirmed from the start but missing out on the prototypes. (We'll definitely get a preview of this by someone once it is officially launched tomorrow)

nap007 said:
+/- I like the panels, but IMO in their current condition they feel somewhat raw and lack of polish; the poker style stacked panels are useless and a waste of resources they should have been created something more functional for example like windows XP's filmstrip folder viewing style in which we could be able to switch between panels without having to press the panels button -which feel like unnecessary 'back' button-
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Click to collapse
The panels default look - all 9 panels side by side in a 3x3 grid - does not look that appealing once you think of it, but in actuality they look awesome. (i have felt the same way as you, but once i watch a video, i love 'em again)
Of course switching panels by flicking your finger to the right or left would be an awesome feature, but i like the way it gives you quick access to all 9 panels with a click of a button. Not to mention, you can switch the panel view into card flow like or some other... (that to me is more cooler than the flicking - having all panels in a arced row like a hand of cards and then you swipe your finger over them to bring each one to the top and then select the one you want)
This definitely is a per-person opinion... but i am sure that their panels will come with a more polished look and feel once the final device is launched.
nap007 said:
- and with my previous point they should have add an accelerometer, so that other than finger swiping between panels (ala touch flo) perhaps we should be able to shake the X1 to switch between panels. (oh come on SE, even W910 had this, why not your flagship?)
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An accelerometer in the mobile would have made it A+++. But why didn't they add it is beyond me. They really should have, but they didn't. Apart from it having had a cool affect on the panels, the most it would have offered would have been a couple of cool games, which i can definitely live without.
On that note... i wish they had made the keyboard on the black on also black.
nap007 said:
- I'm not convinced as to whether SE has done a good job in reshaping the default WinMo UI or not, in fact based on previews, I didn't see anything has been done to it, they (SE) just babbling over and over and over about the panels
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Click to collapse
Their panels are the UI. Just like Touch Flo 3D is the HTC touch Diamon/Pro/HD UI. In my case SE has done more in terms of UI for the WinMo device that HTC... the Touch Flo 3D is pretty static - in terms that there is not too much customization happening for it. But for the panels, they can be ANYTHING!
I'm waiting for them to support C# or VB.Net in the Panel SDK so that i can try out a few things on it... but believe me, with the Developer SDK for Panels, the sky is the limit. (well not literally, but the UI is panels here - so let me just say: BE CONVINCED!!!)
nap007 said:
- I'm also worried about the pre-installed software, there are no info about anything else than Opera and handago client (which are quite useless in my country due to slow, somewhat unstable and rather expensive 3G cost) that will come with the phone, and it caught my eye that they integrated contacts in multimedia panels! Isn't it weird?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All the default software will be there, like Microsoft Office, Adobe, etc. They didn't cover that in videos 'cos what's the use of covering them? We will probably see a full list of softwares and features once the phone is released tomorrow. As for the contacts integrated into the multimedia panel... Hmmm... i haven't really thought about that much.

nap007 said:
- rather small onboard storage
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This is one other actual flaw in Xperia (other than there being no Accelerometer). But then most of the others also have rather small on-board storage... and rely on MicroSD (including Touch Pro and Touch HD).
Only the Touch Diamond has a 2 GB (or bigger) internal memory, but then that has no expansion slot.

msalmank said:
Their panels are the UI. Just like Touch Flo 3D is the HTC touch Diamon/Pro/HD UI. In my case SE has done more in terms of UI for the WinMo device that HTC... the Touch Flo 3D is pretty static - in terms that there is not too much customization happening for it. But for the panels, they can be ANYTHING!
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I wasn't talking about 'home screen' UI or UI that built for the most used apps or on the top of WM UI, something like that, no.
I was talking about the UI after we dig more deeper into the OS....let me give u example from TP and Omnia taken from gsmarena review
Once you get past the Home screen and all the finger sweeps and animations though, all you are left with is muddy waters of the not-so-thumbable Microsoft OS. We are not against Windows Mobile by any means, however having to poke about your device with a little stick called stylus is so 1990s.
HTC however have made some efforts to tweak up the core Windows usability too. Some of the most used system settings, contacts management, and the messaging department have all benefited, and so have image and web browsing.
...
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Samsung have chosen to replace the contacts list with a touch optimized application of their own. It's accessible from the Samsung MainMenu and it's rather iPhone-like, or let's say iPhone-inspired. You can scroll the contacts by dragging your thumb across the display or quickly jump to a letter (iPhone way). The contacts list can be easily sorted by memory (Phone or SIM), by Name, company or Category, or you can easily search by gradual typing.
...
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nah, something like that, do you get my point? In most of X1 videos I only seen the standard WM UI I even yet to see any thumbable on screen keyboard in X1, it just shown the standard and disappointingly small qwerty on screen keyboard...

nap007 said:
HTC however have made some efforts to tweak up the core Windows usability too. Some of the most used system settings, contacts management, and the messaging department have all benefited, and so have image and web browsing.
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Hmm... well, in Xperia most system settings are tweaked for touch-screen. Furthermore, there is an Application Panel as well - which is completely touch-friendly and lets you browse the applications, etc. with ease. This brings me to my initial statement that we can replace core UI by panels easily in Xperia.
Contacts Management - as you probably saw - is completely touch friendly in Xperia and is their own implementation. Messaging, images, and web-browsing are also tweaked/improved.
I'm going to try and get you some videos that i saw a while back.

As for the on-screen keyboard; i for one will be using the actual keyboard for typing and stuff, but i am sure that the keyboard on xperia will be touch friendly and hopefully better than the default one. (i have seen the Touch Keyboard on Touch Pro and it is somewhat the standard one as well)

As for the on-screen keyboard; i for one will be using the actual keyboard for typing and stuff
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as for me, I will be using the keyboard when I want to type something long or perhaps when I already use the device in landscape mode or like while browsing...but I'm rather lazy to open the keyboard just for replying/creating an SMS and I'm sure most people would also feel the same. That's why a comfortable on screen keyboard is almost a must for me.

nap007 said:
as for me, I will be using the keyboard when I want to type something long or perhaps when I already use the device in landscape mode or like while browsing...but I'm rather lazy to open the keyboard just for replying/creating an SMS and I'm sure most people would also feel the same. That's why a comfortable on screen keyboard is almost a must for me.
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There is a video at Tracy and Matt blog that goes into the Control Panel and other sections of the mobile... definitely tweaked for touch experience. but i couldn't find any that showed the on-screen keyboard...
So basically, all concerns apart, the major concern that remains is what kind of an on-screen keyboard does it have?

Just get this one, its free and iPhon-ish:
http://www.pocketcm.com/screenshot.php?v=3

1. Really? Specs show 256, Touch Pro has 288.
2. Xperia is a "winner" unless you consider the fact that most applications won't work with its screen... Bigger, yes, but odd proportions.
3. Xperia's camera is better because of auto touch focus, conceded.
4. You can't be serious, panels better than TF3D? TF3D looks 10x better, but the panels are more functional, I give it a tie at best.
5. Bigger battery, yes, and according to specs Xperia has 180 mins more of talk time... Better.
6. HTC manufactures both phones, I don't know where you're going with this one.
7. No poor 3G reception at all for me, people like to complain.
8. If you've used a phone with an accelerometer you realize how much more fun it is, not just for games.
9. Xperia keyboard looks like junk, said to feel "mushy", and only 4 row. No chance.
10. Where are you getting this information?! "Touch Pro is thick, Xperia is slim"... Really? Touch Pro = 18.05 mm, Xperia = 17mm... I didn't realize 1mm made a phone "thick" instead of "slim"
11. I like the touch pad better, so I'll give this one to Xperia

Black93300ZX said:
1. Really? Specs show 256, Touch Pro has 288.
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256 MB was old specs... RAM was boosted up to 384MB for the final device a couple of weeks back.
Black93300ZX said:
2. Xperia is a "winner" unless you consider the fact that most applications won't work with its screen... Bigger, yes, but odd proportions.
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Click to collapse
This was one my main concerns as well - but prior to HTC announcing the HTC touch HD (same resolution as Xperia) and others also moving towards the same resolution. So in the long term, IMO Xperia is a winner.
Black93300ZX said:
3. Xperia's camera is better because of auto touch focus, conceded.
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At-least you agree with me on one thing...
Black93300ZX said:
4. You can't be serious, panels better than TF3D? TF3D looks 10x better, but the panels are more functional, I give it a tie at best.
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I said that TF3D is amazing looking and better even that what we've seen so far for Xperia Panels... BUT keep in mind that with the customizability of Panels and the Developer SDK out in the open for Free, we will see new panels coming out real soon... and that my friend is going to be the turning point here. Xperia Panels may not be as glossy as TF3D - which i said in my post - but they are more customizable and new panels/interfaces can be easily applied. From the looks, though TF3D is better looking, we can expect same level or better panels to hit soon - but for now TF3D wins in terms of look. But from a functionality stand-point Panels win...
Black93300ZX said:
5. Bigger battery, yes, and according to specs Xperia has 180 mins more of talk time... Better.
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Yay! Another one!
Black93300ZX said:
6. HTC manufactures both phones, I don't know where you're going with this one.
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I know HTC Manufactured both devices, but SE has a hand in the non-hardware related stuff in Xperia - or rather Xperia is a SE device not a HTC device... you know what i mean...
Black93300ZX said:
7. No poor 3G reception at all for me, people like to complain.
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It isn't called complaining according to my dictionary but is rather a comment based on experience. He is not satisfied with the reception of 3G on his touch pro... but you don't face any lack of reception. It's as simple as that.
Black93300ZX said:
8. If you've used a phone with an accelerometer you realize how much more fun it is, not just for games.
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Click to collapse
Actually... i've been carrying an iPhone for over an year now. Accelerometer is pretty much the bomb (one of the main features) but it is definitely something that one can live without. Even after an year, the Accelerometer is mainly used for games and fun utilities - which i already pointed out... but it is also used for switching to landscape automatically in applications, but then again hitting a button to switch isn't that big a deal either.
Black93300ZX said:
9. Xperia keyboard looks like junk, said to feel "mushy", and only 4 row. No chance.
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Click to collapse
Have you actually played with it? And need i remind you that anyone who has played with Xperia so far has done so with a Prototype set. We can't come to a final conclusion based on the review of a prototype set. But anyays, like i said, Touch Pro's keyboard is considered one of the best.
Black93300ZX said:
10. Where are you getting this information?! "Touch Pro is thick, Xperia is slim"... Really? Touch Pro = 18.05 mm, Xperia = 17mm... I didn't realize 1mm made a phone "thick" instead of "slim"
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Ahh. My mistake. When i was writing the comparison, i checked the thickness of Touch Pro and i thought it said 20 but i was looking at something completely different. I'll correct this in the main post right now.
Black93300ZX said:
11. I like the touch pad better, so I'll give this one to Xperia
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The touch pad is better!

I'm copying this from the other thread... as it answers some of your statements in further details:
Black93300ZX said:
As I posted in your other thread, a lot of this information is just wrong. Where did you ever hear the Xperia had almost 400MB of RAM? Every spec I've ever seen shows 256, the Touch Pro has 288, don't use it in your argument until it's proven... Even SonyEricsson.com doesn't have a RAM spec.
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Click to collapse
I'm afraid you should first confirm things yourself. Xperiancers is a blog by SE and here is a quote from their latest blog entry: "The device has a graphics accelerator, a 528 Mhz processor and 384 megs of ram"
(if you'd like to see: http://xperiancers.com/ - Name of post is 'Your Questions Answered')
Black93300ZX said:
Haha I love how you're sooo biased you can't even say a 5MP camera is better than 3.2, "if there's anything SE knows it's cameras"... Yes, I know that their camera is not up to par with one that has 1.8MP more of resolution.
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Dude... it's my opinion, if you don't agree then don't, but call me biased at my own expense. I clearly stated that 'the Touch HD is again ahead of Xperia with a 5 MP camera over the 3.2 MP camera in Xperia', and i am sure many will agree that SE's cameras are one of the best in mobile devices... but i did not declare Xperia a winner over Touch HD but only implied that in my opinion Xperia'll be better. Furthermore - take into account that Touch HD lacks a flash for the camera, it will not perform up to par in certain conditions.
Black93300ZX said:
Once again, the Touch Pro has no issue with 3G reception, far better than other 3G phones I've used...
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Again... user based experience. Another member here mentioned that he faced 3G reception problems, and i put that in. You say it doesn't, i'll put that in as well.
Black93300ZX said:
The manufacturer argument, why don't you make that argument between the HD and Touch Pro? It'd make just as much sense, all of the phones are manufactured by HTC.
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Dude! did you even read what i wrote? I wrote it clear: "HTC vs. SE. This is SE's first WinMo device, so concerns arise... but given the fact that HTC was behind in this device's manufacturing as well, i say that we can rely on the device."
HTC manufactured Xperia, but it is a SE device and they are the ones who are bringing it out.

@Black93300ZX
Concerning 3G reception and Touch Pro: Just do a search and you'll find a lot of people complaining about that.
The same for Diamond - the devices are very equal concerning this weakness.
But I would never try to convince someone to buy a Xperia instead of any other phone, I just wanted to mention it, because it's very important for me. Do with this information whatever you want.
If you like the HTC Touch Pro better: Go for it.

The screen size alone makes the Xperia a winner to me, don't know why the HTC phones seems to be stucked with 2.8 screens.

asolano895 said:
The screen size alone makes the Xperia a winner to me, don't know why the HTC phones seems to be stucked with 2.8 screens.
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HTC Touch HD has a bigger screen...

I don't know if this is the final product or not, but seriously I can't find the rotation button there maybe you can see it?
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
other than that, these photos look awesome!
http://translate.google.se/translat...41244/default.aspx&sl=cs&tl=en&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8

Update to windows mobile 6.5 and 7

Hello Xda
i am wondering are we can able to upgrade to windows mobile 6.5 in the future and windows mobile 7 too.
also can we will be able to use multi touch function on hd device?

Well on past models HTC have released new ROMs with newer version of WM, so you would think they would release new updated ROMs for the HD.
Unless they have another new phone on the horizon! You would think they would wanna sell 1 or 2 HD's first though before they release another 'high end' handset.

Philio25 said:
Well on past models HTC have released new ROMs with newer version of WM, so you would think they would release new updated ROMs for the HD.
Unless they have another new phone on the horizon! You would think they would wanna sell 1 or 2 HD's first though before they release another 'high end' handset.
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Click to collapse
You would think so wouldn't you but then there was not much time between the diamond/Pro & the HD!

tingsagwaan said:
You would think so wouldn't you but then there was not much time between the diamond/Pro & the HD!
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Click to collapse
Yer was very close, I heard mixed reviews of the Diamond/Pro so held of upgrading, then the HD popped up on the HTC website so waited for the HD instead!

winmo 7 is said to have hardware requirement of 256MB ROM for the OS. so should be fine.
WinMo 6.5 will probably be less than 256MB ROM too so all go there too.
TOUCH HD should be well future-proofed for WinMo updates (official or otherwise), and then there's the possibility of Android too......

I think and hope that they will release at least an update to winmo 6.5 But I also think you shouldn't hope for Multitouch! If i'm not totally wrong the HD use a resisitiv Touchscreen and they are all not cabable of Multitouch, doesn't matter which Firmware is running

There is supposed to be a pre-WM7 release, not sure what else is included but supposedly it will have a better version of the IE browser.

I imagine this may depends on how much WM7 will be a change and needs adjustment from HTC. Like... what will be the touch 3D layer then ?
My bet is, the more we are expecting from WM7 as a breaktthrough in the series the less me may use it on this version of the Touch HD.

Eitum said:
I think and hope that they will release at least an update to winmo 6.5 But I also think you shouldn't hope for Multitouch! If i'm not totally wrong the HD use a resisitiv Touchscreen and they are all not cabable of Multitouch, doesn't matter which Firmware is running
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches - and even laptop trackpads can too, it's just that there's never been any software developed for it, and the operating system has just been hard coded to ignore multiple touch points and averaged them out to somewhere in the middle of where touched.It's pretty much a case of trackpad and touchscreen designers going "hmm what about if someone touches with two points at the same time? Ah well, there's no reason for doing that, let's just average it out"
Now, more realistically speaking, what exactly is the benefit of multi-touch on a mobile operating system? Pinch zooming? The zoom bar on Opera seems pretty simple and actually easier to use to me! Anything else? New Macbooks use gestures for Expose (no use for that on a mobile), two finger scrolling (about the only day-to-day useful feature, but again useless on a mobile device with finger scrolling anyway!) Two finger rotating maybe (um, accelerometer does that for you!) so anybody got any more suggestions for making this gimmick actually useable on a portable device that can't do it better already?

How can you play an instrument like a keyboard without multi touch!
While such a functionality might be an intesting one, it also seems like a step backwards in certain aspects.
Single handed operation is one of the essential aspects of mobile phones.

chaosdefinesorder said:
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
would be fine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3Owgcos_KY
multi-touch on windows mobile on HTC diamond.....just not in the way you may expect.

chaosdefinesorder said:
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches - and even laptop trackpads can too, it's just that there's never been any software developed for it, and the operating system has just been hard coded to ignore multiple touch points and averaged them out to somewhere in the middle of where touched.It's pretty much a case of trackpad and touchscreen designers going "hmm what about if someone touches with two points at the same time? Ah well, there's no reason for doing that, let's just average it out"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No correction needed, this is 100% true. Touchscreens do not register clicks, or anything similar, the screen itself is nothing but a sensor. The screen sensor layer on the HD screen registers any surface part of the screen on which the pressure exceeds a given threshold and the output is translated by a driver into anything the OS uses for manipulation. Thus, theoretically, ANY touchscreen device can be multitouch.
chaosdefinesorder said:
Now, more realistically speaking, what exactly is the benefit of multi-touch on a mobile operating system? Pinch zooming? The zoom bar on Opera seems pretty simple and actually easier to use to me! Anything else? New Macbooks use gestures for Expose (no use for that on a mobile), two finger scrolling (about the only day-to-day useful feature, but again useless on a mobile device with finger scrolling anyway!) Two finger rotating maybe (um, accelerometer does that for you!) so anybody got any more suggestions for making this gimmick actually useable on a portable device that can't do it better already?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Many of the more objective iPhone users have indicated that multitouch should not be overrated. It is nice for picture viewing, but in practical terms such as with a browser, it can be frustrating to see people zooming in to 100% with a swift doubletap while the iPhone users themselves are having to place two fingers on the screen, prevent accidentally using your nails, and having to squeeze/pinch until the page looks right.
BUT... I for one believe that more natural forms of input, i.e. a Keyboard, REQUIRES multitouch to function 100% intuitively. You simply do not need to release your finger from one key in order to press another, and a singletouch screen does require this. This causes lots of mistakes when typing too fast, you have to be over-articulate while typing.
Then again, I see most iPhone users typing with one thumb even when sitting down and holding the phone with both hands, because it's their first smartphone Not fair... WinMo pro's should have received this years ago
Oops I am straying from objectivity here...

Windows mobile 7 prebeta video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-i2jHEFdD4

Muhamed said:
Windows mobile 7 prebeta video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-i2jHEFdD4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it's not.

^ The interface looks new and cool...If its not WM 7...then what is it?

Nara-e-Mastana said:
^ The interface looks new and cool...If its not WM 7...then what is it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from the youtube video info:
Device: HTC Touch (elf)
Skin name: Windows Mobile 7 i3
(i3 = 3 interface)
Skin version: QVGA
was it really that hard to read? the info was RIGHT THERE.

where to find
Out of curiosity where do we find this skin? all I can find is that youtube video. At the moment I'm getting a little bored with my current ROM and right now am looking for a new replacement look on my vogue.

chaosdefinesorder said:
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches - and even laptop trackpads can too, it's just that there's never been any software developed for it, and the operating system has just been hard coded to ignore multiple touch points and averaged them out to somewhere in the middle of where touched.It's pretty much a case of trackpad and touchscreen designers going "hmm what about if someone touches with two points at the same time? Ah well, there's no reason for doing that, let's just average it out"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just another confirmation of this. Synaptics, the maker of most touchpads for laptops, released driver updates for laptops to include multi-touch pinching, gestures, zooming, and Chiral(circular) scrolling - These were for touchpads that could previous only do what WinMo does with multiple touches.
So, as everyone said, you're right. If the manufacturers wanted to, they *could* give us multi-touch, but WinMo doesn't have an implementation of that anyway so it's useless.
http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2007/05/04/dogfood-doesn-t-always-taste-good.aspx

chaosdefinesorder said:
(...)
so anybody got any more suggestions for making this gimmick actually useable on a portable device that can't do it better already?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
specially for hd which has almost no hardware buttons multitouch would be a nice feature videogame-wise... like shooting while running or steering while accelerating...
btw check out the blackstone rom development forum a custom rom with winmo6.5 beta has been released already. Just for testing purposes only though.

The multitouch mess

There is confirmation from an unofficial site that multitouch might not be an hardware mess after all.
http://www.simbasics.co.uk/sony-ericsson-xperia-x10-to-get-multi-touch-and-android-2-1/6304
post your opinions on whether you beleive this is true or not

X10 WLL NOT have multi-touch!

rs0cal said:
There is confirmation from an unofficial site that multitouch might not be an hardware mess after all.
http://www.simbasics.co.uk/sony-ericsson-xperia-x10-to-get-multi-touch-and-android-2-1/6304
post your opinions on whether you beleive this is true or not
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't belive a company as big as SE would produce a flagship phone and use a 3yr old touchscreen, I would have thought it has a Clearpad2000 or 3000 fitted to it and Multitouch can be enabled at a later date?
Theres keeping costs down and theres blatent stupidity.

If you think about it, multitouch isn't all that. People mostly want it for zoom-pinching, requiring 2 fingers, which is too difficult to do with just 1 hand. I stopped caring about Multitouch after I saw a youtube of X10 mini way of zooming using 1 finger. Just like how you add widget to the android 'desktop', you press the screen for 1 sec with 1 finger, then drag up and down to zoom in and out. Double tap is also possible, but I like that new way better

ShadowFlare said:
If you think about it, multitouch isn't all that. People mostly want it for zoom-pinching, requiring 2 fingers, which is too difficult to do with just 1 hand. I stopped caring about Multitouch after I saw a youtube of X10 mini way of zooming using 1 finger. Just like how you add widget to the android 'desktop', you press the screen for 1 sec with 1 finger, then drag up and down to zoom in and out. Double tap is also possible, but I like that new way better
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this will be in xperia x10 also ??
i mean i can zoom with 1 finger and drag up & down ???
or will be only for mini x10 ??

Well the video was in X10 mini, right now X10 doesn't have that. But since X10 won't have multitouch, there's a good chance the X10 gets X10 mini way of zooming.
The video of X10 mini zooming is a fact, but hoping it to be available also on X10 via update is purely my personal expectation. So don't start rumors that X10 will definitely get that too lol.
EDIT:
Ok, found the thread regarding that X10 mini zoom, including the youtube link:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=661080

thanks shadowflare
really it is perfect and hope x10 will get this in its update

what about gaming though on apps? lack of multitouch any of concern for you guys on apps?

Did you guys know? (Vibrant Multitouch)

So...........I did a few multitouch tests last night for ****s and giggles and on one test it sensed 5 contact points (I was like when i saw this BTW) and the other performed pretty well also the only way i could get the two contact points to get stuck together was when i slid one finger under the other.
so after having my Nexus and trying these tests which were a huge FAIL and giving up on my Game Emulators that i purchased back in my G1 days I decided to give it another go on my Vibrant and the only thing i have to say is HOLY ****!!! My GBA, SNES, SEGA, and NES emulators run INSANE, the multitouch is on par, and it only made me fall way more in love with my Vibrant
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Just some screenies of my 2 hours of fun last night

+1 for vibrant

LatinSilEighty said:
So...........I did a few multitouch tests last night for ****s and giggles and on one test it sensed 5 contact points (I was like when i saw this BTW) and the other performed pretty well also the only way i could get the two contact points to get stuck together was when i slid one finger under the other.
so after having my Nexus and trying these tests which were a huge FAIL and giving up on my Game Emulators that i purchased back in my G1 days I decided to give it another go on my Vibrant and the only thing i have to say is HOLY ****!!! My GBA, SNES, SEGA, and NES emulators run INSANE, the multitouch is on par, and it only made me fall way more in love with my Vibrant
Just some screenies of my 2 hours of fun last night
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NICE!!! Thanks for sharing...very informative. I'm curious how the new iphone will stack up to these tests as well. hhmmm...

how easy is it to get those games going on the vibrant? slowly learning here =)

Yep. Part of the SAMOLED specs was a better touch panel. Nice to see it's as good as they claim!

I also notice that if you use the Samsung input method instead of Swype, you almost get a full multitouch keyboard.

eff0rtless said:
how easy is it to get those games going on the vibrant? slowly learning here =)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go to the market and download
NESOID (Nintendo)
SNESOID (Super Nintendo)
GENSOID (Sega Genesis)
GAMEBOID (Game Boy Advanced)
or anything by a developer called "yongzh"
he also has a Game Boy classic and a Game Gear emulator
then get RomBuddy on the market to get the games the GBA emulator needs a "BIOS" file to play it you can find it on RomBuddy or you can do it like I did and search the internet for hours and test out what games work and don't
keep in mind these are all payed apps and both the apps and the roms (games) are illegal to distribute so before you ask just in case NO i wont post up any APK's or ROM's and no the roms dont cost anything just the emulators and Rombuddy <---Easiest way to find the roms
Type in "yongzh" in your search bar on the market and he has some "lite" versions of his emulators so you can try it out before buying

rembonjaski said:
I also notice that if you use the Samsung input method instead of Swype, you almost get a full multitouch keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah i use Better Keyboard and its runs really well on the phone also BTW its not quite yet multitouch yet but its pretty close, most keyboards claim to be but i dont think theres is one yet
another thing i tested were some of the piano apps on the market that poped up when i typed in "multitouch" in the search bar on the market and those all worked pretty well you could push two keys at a time but i kind of forgot to see if maybe more than two fingers would work?
I know the emulators were reacting to more than two fingers (not that you would want to fit more than two fingers on a 4" screen while playing a game )

LatinSilEighty said:
Go to the market and download
NESOID (Nintendo)
SNESOID (Super Nintendo)
GENSOID (Sega Genesis)
GAMEBOID (Game Boy Advanced)
or anything by a developer called "yongzh"
he also has a Game Boy classic and a Game Gear emulator
then get RomBuddy on the market to get the games the GBA emulator needs a "BIOS" file to play it you can find it on RomBuddy or you can do it like I did and search the internet for hours and test out what games work and don't
keep in mind these are all payed apps and both the apps and the roms (games) are illegal to distribute so before you ask just in case NO i wont post up any APK's or ROM's and no the roms dont cost anything just the emulators and Rombuddy <---Easiest way to find the roms
Type in "yongzh" in your search bar on the market and he has some "lite" versions of his emulators so you can try it out before buying
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um, how good is rombuddy if I may ask? I understand that this stuff is illegal, but in the spirit of sharing, I would like to say that the website known as emuparadise is also good for roms. They have every GBA game ever, and a good selection of others I believe. Now sure how easy it is since you'd probably be downloading onto your computer and putting the rom files in the right folder, unless you can download to a certain folder on android, but it is free at least. People who are downloading illegal emulators and roms probably want to be as cheap as possible after all.

Im pretty sure the 5 contact points is not a thing with the Vibrant, the Nexus One just had a really bad touch sensor.

Multitouch on the Vibrant/GALAXY S series is excellent. I think most of us we're apprised to that. Just trying out pinch to zoom in the web browser and GPS maps shows how awesome the touch pad on this phone is. It's easily at the level of the iPhone.

Blueman101 said:
Im pretty sure the 5 contact points is not a thing with the Vibrant, the Nexus One just had a really bad touch sensor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what do you mean by "is not a thing with the vibrant"? and unless both my boys nexus and mine had a bad touch sensor I think you sir would be wrong. It was a hardware issue theres many many videos out on it, Im not bashing the Nexus because i loved mine but the Vibrants screen is better IMO
Download Multitouch Test by "Greenrobot" and if you tell me that you put 5 fingers on the screen (at the same time )and it pops up with five points then Ill call my friend up and tell him he has a defective Nexus

The Galaxy S is using one of the best touch sensor available, its made by a company call Atmel, the one being use in the Galaxy S supports unlimited touch.

LatinSilEighty said:
what do you mean by "is not a thing with the vibrant"? and unless both my boys nexus and mine had a bad touch sensor I think you sir would be wrong. It was a hardware issue theres many many videos out on it, Im not bashing the Nexus because i loved mine but the Vibrants screen is better IMO
Download Multitouch Test by "Greenrobot" and if you tell me that you put 5 fingers on the screen (at the same time )and it pops up with five points then Ill call my friend up and tell him he has a defective Nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No i was just getting at the nexus one had a flawed touch sensor to begin with. Others like the Droid X or the Incredible have touch screens similar to the Vibrant.

Blueman101 said:
No i was just getting at the nexus one had a flawed touch sensor to begin with. Others like the Droid X or the Incredible have touch screens similar to the Vibrant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh sorry i got all on the defensive, yeah i think the Evo is also on the list of good screens

I used to prefer the resistive screen of my Nokia n900 over any other capacitive screen. However, this phone has since changed my opinion of capacitive touch screens and on screen keyboards. A stylus would still be nice though

Actually, the Incredible (and the Evo/HD2) have the same crappy sensor as the N1 and the Desire.
Multi-touch on those Snapdragon phones is a hack job, the actual hardware used doesn't even support it directly. Every wonder why the Sony X10 doesn't support multi-touch at all? It's not because of Android 1.6, it's the hardware. It has the same touchscreen hardware as the HTC devices (and is probably co-designed/manufactured by HTC too), but they didn't try to make it work with a driver hack like HTC did.
The Milestone/Droid, which has an EXCELLENT sensor and used to be the best in the business until the Galaxy S came to town, only supports two inputs. Which, btw, is plenty, it'll be a rare rare application that can take advantage of multi-multi-touch.
Not sure what's on the Droid X, but I imagine the hardware will be at least as good as the Droid.

Croak said:
Actually, the Incredible (and the Evo/HD2) have the same crappy sensor as the N1 and the Desire.
Multi-touch on those Snapdragon phones is a hack job, the actual hardware used doesn't even support it directly. Every wonder why the Sony X10 doesn't support multi-touch at all? It's not because of Android 1.6, it's the hardware. It has the same touchscreen hardware as the HTC devices (and is probably co-designed/manufactured by HTC too), but they didn't try to make it work with a driver hack like HTC did.
The Milestone/Droid, which has an EXCELLENT sensor and used to be the best in the business until the Galaxy S came to town, only supports two inputs. Which, btw, is plenty, it'll be a rare rare application that can take advantage of multi-multi-touch.
Not sure what's on the Droid X, but I imagine the hardware will be at least as good as the Droid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would you know how many inputs the iphone4 can handle? Very curious...they use our cpu made by samsung along with other components, I wonder how similar our touch screen tech is....

Croak said:
Actually, the Incredible (and the Evo/HD2) have the same crappy sensor as the N1 and the Desire.
Multi-touch on those Snapdragon phones is a hack job, the actual hardware used doesn't even support it directly. Every wonder why the Sony X10 doesn't support multi-touch at all? It's not because of Android 1.6, it's the hardware. It has the same touchscreen hardware as the HTC devices (and is probably co-designed/manufactured by HTC too), but they didn't try to make it work with a driver hack like HTC did.
The Milestone/Droid, which has an EXCELLENT sensor and used to be the best in the business until the Galaxy S came to town, only supports two inputs. Which, btw, is plenty, it'll be a rare rare application that can take advantage of multi-multi-touch.
Not sure what's on the Droid X, but I imagine the hardware will be at least as good as the Droid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is all this information fact? i really like HTC and i would hate to think that their screens couldn't get better by a small fix, so would you say that Samsungs screen is one of the best screens out and if not the best who would be its direct competitor or what place would you put Samsung in?

Nevermind I got it to work

Multi-Touch problem in Nexus S?

I found that sometime when you touch two points at the same time, the phone doesn't response as expected. The screen only detect one point being pressed. This happens quite often and I am wondering if it is my phone's issue.
You can notice the problem easily when playing "Slice It".

hungyip84 said:
I found that sometime when you touch two points at the same time, the phone doesn't response as expected. The screen only detect one point being pressed. This happens quite often and I am wondering if it is my phone's issue.
You can notice the problem easily when playing "Slice It".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Multi touch is app dependent, some apps dont support it, open up google maps and pinch to zoom

Multi touch works fine for me. Nothing like the shennaigans of the Nexus One. Downloaded multitouch visulaizer 2 - my touch screen can detect 5 points of touch at once!
Edit - I see what you mean on sliceit. Sometimes if you put down 2 fingers simultaneously, it will lose the track on one of the fingers. All you have to do is lift that finger and put it back down again and it regains track.

hungyip84 said:
I found that sometime when you touch two points at the same time, the phone doesn't response as expected. The screen only detect one point being pressed. This happens quite often and I am wondering if it is my phone's issue.
You can notice the problem easily when playing "Slice It".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I noticed that with Slice It! too and was messing around investigating it. Also, I think it's the app's issue, since I've never had any other problems with multi-touch anywhere else.

sound like more of a bug with some specific Apps rather than a hardware issue.
as the multitouch test apps works just fine, if it were a hardware problem those test apps should be failing as well.

I don't know if you guys remember, but when the N1 got its first update to enable "multitouch", there was a lot of speculation that it wasn't true multitouch as Apple has it patented. I wonder if they're continuing on that same track or whether Google said screw Apple and dropped it in anyway.

allen099 said:
I don't know if you guys remember, but when the N1 got its first update to enable "multitouch", there was a lot of speculation that it wasn't true multitouch as Apple has it patented. I wonder if they're continuing on that same track or whether Google said screw Apple and dropped it in anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. back then they used thinkpad2000 or something like that. forgot the same. wasnt real one " much like what Sony is doing with xperia x10" right now
the nexus s has true multi touch.

On the subject do any of you guys have problems with zoom in your photo galleries. When ever i try to pinch to zoom in for example to someones face it will start to zoom somewhere else. Don't know if its just my phone or everyones.

I tried to do the multi touch test using multi touch visualizer and multi touch tester. In multi touch tester, it only detect one touch point when i touch two points at the same time. In multi touch visualizer, it detect two touch points but the second point has a 1-2 second delay when i do the same test. I did the same test using Droid and galaxy s and they don't have the problem mentioned...any thought?
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

Slightly off topic, but in the Gallery app in the Album thumbnail section, you can two-finger press an album and spread your fingers and it'll give you a mini-slide show right there. Very impressive.

hungyip84 said:
I tried to do the multi touch test using multi touch visualizer and multi touch tester. In multi touch tester, it only detect one touch point when i touch two points at the same time. In multi touch visualizer, it detect two touch points but the second point has a 1-2 second delay when i do the same test. I did the same test using Droid and galaxy s and they don't have the problem mentioned...any thought?
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i never heard of a screen that has a multi touch problem as in hardware issue.
but try different nexus S. if its doing the same thing then your phone is fine.

allen099 said:
I don't know if you guys remember, but when the N1 got its first update to enable "multitouch", there was a lot of speculation that it wasn't true multitouch as Apple has it patented. I wonder if they're continuing on that same track or whether Google said screw Apple and dropped it in anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple patented a specific method for implementing multi-touch... part of it is UI, which was only granted in the US, and part was technical... in either case, there are new ways of doing multi touch in technical terms, and as for UI Apple doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to "generic" actions like pinch to zoom, et al.

Some ppl in thus thread also experience the same problem. To me this is not a acceptable multi touch experience. I hope this can be fixed by an firmware update.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App