Database Users

[TEST] NAND/SDcard comparison

Hi all,
Since everybody is burning to get an NAND build, mostly for battery and performance improvement, I was just wondering if I could make some crystalmarks to determine wether NAND is better than a class 4 or 6 SD card for running an OS or not.
So now my point is : is there a tool, in WM or Android, to see our phone's ROM memory as an external flash drive with windows? So I can perform the tests?
Thank you very much for helping.

yeah this is the most natural question to ask considering the discussions on NAND port but i have asked it before and do not remember getting a good answer.

If i compare Desire with HD2, same hw more or less....
The score of Quadrant about HD2 with Desire Rom (via Haret) is better then Desire with cooked Rom (Nand).
So, HD2 Nand Rom will be better than HD2 SD Rom????
Cotulla, if you are here can u answer this question?? ;-)

@Threadstarter: Your topic made me think, you already DID the test. So can you probably rename it for not confusing other people? ;-)

ghevin said:
If i compare Desire with HD2, same hw more or less....
The score of Quadrant about HD2 with Desire Rom (via Haret) is better then Desire with cooked Rom (Nand).
So, HD2 Nand Rom will be better than HD2 SD Rom????
Cotulla, if you are here can u answer this question?? ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
false. desire with cooked rom can take up to 1950ish in quadrant, also devs are thinking can reach 2000 easily with higher frequencies; so this two phone will be exactly same when we reach to nand, i think.
65k color can differentiate the graphics performance of course.

actasci said:
false. desire with cooked rom can take up to 1950ish in quadrant, also devs are thinking can reach 2000 easily with higher frequencies; so this two phone will be exactly same when we reach to nand, i think.
65k color can differentiate the graphics performance of course.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, wrong and deleted

actasci said:
false. desire with cooked rom can take up to 1950ish in quadrant, also devs are thinking can reach 2000 easily with higher frequencies; so this two phone will be exactly same when we reach to nand, i think.
65k color can differentiate the graphics performance of course.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got Desire with DJDroid 1.4 (Rosie Rom). My best score is 1320 (no overclock)
I've got HD2 with Mttc 1.7 (Rosie Rom). My best score is 1580 (no overclock)
This is my experience, it's not a false!

ghevin said:
I've got Desire with DJDroid 1.4 (Rosie Rom). My best score is 1320 (no overclock)
I've got HD2 with Mttc 1.7 (Rosie Rom). My best score is 1580 (no overclock)
This is my experience, it's not a false!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you should try to flash the new opendesire 4.0.23, or at least install vorkkernel r4. without overclock you can easily see 1800ish with any rom without sense.

I'll try... but i like sense... i compare with sense rom version...

I think NAND build will increase battery life since sd card can be powered off in sleep mode.

so in terms of battery life what kind of improvement we are talking about with NAND port? 20%? 50? any idea?
I am getting acceptable performance when in standby ~1% per hour (much less than that with winmo ~0.4% per hour). i think i am getting worse battery performance when using the phone than winmo. obviously, sd card needs to be accessed constantly to run android and i assume that costs some juice.

In WM, install a program to NAND and try it, clock how long it takes to start and so on then uninstall it and install it to you SD-card and do the same thing. Now you know the difference

d3vilsadvocate said:
@Threadstarter: Your topic made me think, you already DID the test. So can you probably rename it for not confusing other people? ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok I'll do it.
So, anyone to answer my request?

Why don't ask in Kaiser forums about diferences. HTC kaiser has all android versions, nand and haret about few months ago.

mattc LeoNexus 1.1 using starbase64's setCPU text file
EDIT - Search starbase64's threads for the additional setCPU configuration settings that go with the text file.

Are you using the latest version of quadrant for that test?

That is an old test. I don't even have that build anymore.
Are you using the latest version of quadrant for that test?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Moon2 said:
Are you using the latest version of quadrant for that test?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using mattc v1.8 on a data 8gb card. It doesn't even have a class rating on it. So I figure of it's keeping up with a nexus, that's pretty good.

This is as close as it gets.. First is a breakdown of default n1 froyo quadrant score. second is my hd2 clocked at 1190mhz. I believe this is with the storage card mounted.. I find that if you unmount sd, the io score tends to be higher. The CPU score is really the crazy variable/variation between different scores seen.

19 posts in this threads and nobody realise the main point : We have RAM.
Android is loaded from Sd-card, correct, but loaded into RAM.
So why comparing quadrant scores between ram and ram ?
Gain in battery perfomance won't be that much.

[Q] No JIT in DK28

So DK28 is supposedly 2.2.1 but I ran Quandrat with the stock rom and it comes up 873, almost exactly the same as Galaxy S 2.1, leading me to believe that JIT is not in the rom. Correct?

avenger213 said:
So DK28 is supposedly 2.2.1 but I ran Quandrat with the stock rom and it comes up 873, almost exactly the same as Galaxy S 2.1, leading me to believe that JIT is not in the rom. Correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I may be wrong but quadrant:
1) Isn't the best way to base performance
2) Doesn't really show improvements that JIT provides
Download linpack if you want and your score should be around a 14 or so, compared to the 8.5-9 on 2.1

Quadrant isn't a real life benchmark, and is highly flawed. Check out Quantum's "warp speed edition" ROM for proof.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

I got 1205 with stock dk28 but I have noticed others reporting lower scores. Variability in testing with a bad benchmark perhaps?

I've got 1839 lol... For some reason I doubt that's accurate

I did a quadrant test with a stock epic 2.1 and an epic on dk28 and the scores were pretty much the same every time. The major difference was that the Froyo epic ran the cpu benchmarks much faster but hung during the first I/O test. The 2.1 epic ran everything about the same speed and completed the whole test much faster than the froyo epic.

I also noticed this and posted in another thread...
to quote myself
I was getting around 8.3xx in 2.1, and now I'm getting 13.7xx in 2.2.
(I used the 1506bdf2e04b.update-SPH-D700_DI18ToDK28.zip renamed to update.zip method.)
Saw a video the other day showing a nexus 1 scoring 20+ on 1st run and 40+ on 2nd.. My friends Evo (with 2.2) scored @ 38 or so..
Quadrant still shows me well under all of the 2.2+ phones listed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I expected a bit more of an increase..
I too am wondering if the JIT was left out of our Froyo (if that's even possible, I'm still a total nube to andriod stuff).

What exactly is JIT, does it speed the phone up?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Just In Time compiling...
From what I know about .Net (I'm a C# coder), it allows for compilation of the app for the specific CPU during the 1st run.
Someone please correct me if this differes from andriod's JIT...

the epic has fast computation hw between the cpu and gpu, it could be the case that the JIT benefit doesn't show in the benchmark margins.
the device is a fast one, all compared.

Post Your Quadrant Benchmark Scores! (HD2)

Hey everyone. Please Benchmark using Quadrant and Post your Score along with a screen shot or picture of your score.
Also please state if you tested your phone under default stock conditions, or if you rooted and tweaked the heck out of it to get the high score you got.
You can download Quadrant. Go To Android Market and search Quadrant.
MY Score : 2799
i can't upload the pic now
1.To prevent spam to the forums, ALL new users are not permitted to post outside links in their messages. After approximately eight posts, you will be able to post outside links. Thanks for understanding!

I am running CM 6.1 Stable and getting about 2300-2350 quadrant score (setCPU scaling between 245 and 1200). What are you running to get 2800?
Edit: Had weather bug running in the BG, now getting around 2500.

That's the highest quadrant score I've EVER seen from any first gen. Snapdragon device. What do you have it overclocked to? On my mt4g (second gen snapdragon with dedicated gpu) overclocked to 1600mhz on a deodexed, zip aligned rom, I just barely go above 2800 on quadrant.
I had an HD2 and a Nexus and never came remotely close to those numbers on any rom/kernel/clock speed combination. I've messed with and flashed many Evos, overclocked within reason, that also average literally half of that.
Since your post count is 2 and youve already opened a 'bragging rights' type thread, I'm going to have to call BS on this. Sorry, I just call it how I see it. Or hey, maybe you're just the chosen one and have a magic phone.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

I am absolutely thrilled with a score of 2500. I have been using a G1 for the past year and a half and I decided it was finally time to upgrade. My G1 was only getting about 580 with CM 6.1 (and that was an amazing score). I was debating whether to get a MyTouch 4G, G2 or an HD2 with the Android off the SD card. I was able to pick up an HD2 for $200 off craigslist and boy I do not regret it. I don't know how this phone can run Android off the SD card faster than off the nand, but I am thrilled. By the way I am using a Class 10 4 GB SD Card, if that makes much of a difference.
Only this I wish it could do is play my 720p videos without the codec getting all blocky/laggy. But that is probably asking way too much.

Is 2500 on stock clock speed? There must be some serious speed enhancements here recently, last I used a dual booted HD2 it was only in the 1300 range, same with my nexus, and two Evos. My nexus will max around 1800 with the miui rom overclocked to 1100mhz or so..Is there something special with the HD2's hardware that I'm missing or is this the norm now?
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

I am using HD2ONE 0.3.4b based on CM 6.1 Stable (CM is awesome BTW). I am using setCPU to run the phone at 1190mhz clock, but it still gets great Benchmarks without. I have been using CM for about a year now on my G1. It is built for speed and memory improvements as these were necessities to keep my G1 alive and kicking up until now. I would assume anyone who can't break the 2000 point quadrant score might want to take a look at HD2ONE and CM.
PS.
Also, this is the T-Mobile HTC HD2, so perhaps the 1gb ram helps as well.

I still don't see the point in benchmarks. I used to have a build (it shall remain nameless) that got over 2400 in quadrant but the UI itself was slow as all hell. My current build (in sig) get's 1700 ish but is smooth as melted butter. I'd rather have a smooth OS than a cooked phone as well.

I'm not sure about your unnamed os but cyanogenmod is running smooth as butter
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

Ok and yet again here we go.
Your scores are so insane high because of what apears to be bug in the benchmarking of the SD card. Your device is NOT ultra wtf pownage fast. Its nothing to boast about. Its just a glitch. I had a build that did 3100 and still the build from darkstone is 100% faster and only pulling 1600 points.
Benchmarks are fun to measure on devices that run off NAND not SD so for the love of god STOP the benchmark topics.

shuntje said:
Ok and yet again here we go.
Your scores are so insane high because of what apears to be bug in the benchmarking of the SD card. Your device is NOT ultra wtf pownage fast. Its nothing to boast about. Its just a glitch. I had a build that did 3100 and still the build from darkstone is 100% faster and only pulling 1600 points.
Benchmarks are fun to measure on devices that run off NAND not SD so for the love of god STOP the benchmark topics.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I knew it had to be something to do with Android running off the SD card and not NAND, those numbers are just insane for the setups. Thank you for clearing that up sir.

shuntje said:
Ok and yet again here we go.
Your scores are so insane high because of what apears to be bug in the benchmarking of the SD card. Your device is NOT ultra wtf pownage fast. Its nothing to boast about. Its just a glitch. I had a build that did 3100 and still the build from darkstone is 100% faster and only pulling 1600 points.
Benchmarks are fun to measure on devices that run off NAND not SD so for the love of god STOP the benchmark topics.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it's not just a glitch. cedesmith's asynchronous data method actually does improve i/o by a huge amount. There are a few spots where the SuperRam build feels faster than the desire_hd2 and hd2one 3.4 but it's really not that big a difference. Plus the battery drain is not as good on the SuperRam.
This is one of the builds shuntje is talking about. Cedesmith's desire_hd2, running slightly overclocked at 1.19. No other tweaks.

I do not think that this result came from a gap in the program
my phone is so fast
now in benchmark >>> my socre is 2963 !!!!
add me in facebook and see the pic
facebook.com/home.php?#!/profile.php?id=100000362542194

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buzz killington said:
Well it's not just a glitch. cedesmith's asynchronous data method actually does improve i/o by a huge amount. There are a few spots where the SuperRam build feels faster than the desire_hd2 and hd2one 3.4 but it's really not that big a difference. Plus the battery drain is not as good on the SuperRam.
This is one of the builds shuntje is talking about. Cedesmith's desire_hd2, running slightly overclocked at 1.19. No other tweaks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how did u get that high io score ?
i can barley get 5k at 1.2ghz
ish i get higher score with lower oc just 1.07ghz
overall without 2d/3d 2560
cpu 5800
io 5900
1.11ghz
overall without 2d/3d 2600
cpu 6400 io 5700

civicvx94 said:
Is 2500 on stock clock speed? There must be some serious speed enhancements here recently, last I used a dual booted HD2 it was only in the 1300 range, same with my nexus, and two Evos. My nexus will max around 1800 with the miui rom overclocked to 1100mhz or so..Is there something special with the HD2's hardware that I'm missing or is this the norm now?
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know the details, but recently I've noticed a bunch of people here posting quadrant scores in the 2100-2400+ range.
I score about 2000 @1.19 Ghz, but my build is quite a bit older than the new ones.
There definitely seem to have been some optimizations done in the most recent builds, especially the one by darkstone which does something like load the entire android filesystem in memory or something.
I'll have to try a newer build.

poweroutlet said:
I don't know the details, but recently I've noticed a bunch of people here posting quadrant scores in the 2100-2400+ range.
I score about 2000 @1.19 Ghz, but my build is quite a bit older than the new ones.
There definitely seem to have been some optimizations done in the most recent builds, especially the one by darkstone which does something like load the entire android filesystem in memory or something.
I'll have to try a newer build.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most all the big numbers come from the i/o improvements. You'll know if you see the build uses cedesmith's initrd. Using asynchronous read/write improves performance but also has a higher chance of corrupting the data file.
Just off the top of my head, these builds all are using it: cedesmith's desire_hd2, hd2one, jdms, darkstone's superram also uses it for his build.

i am using HD2ONE ROM , latest version.. my quadrant score is 2200+..
after flushing 10-15 ROMs its first time i got 2200+
i m running Radio 2.15.50.xx

yha, benchmarks are great braging rights.
ive run roms that bench silly high, but ive also run roms that bench " slow" but in real workd performance kick the crap out of the " fast" roms.
atleast some one did a benchmark from the payed version so it breaks it all down, and shows actual usefull info...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The reason its scoring so high is because of i/o. I believe that's the wrong metric to look at because i believe i/o is dependent on what memory card you have. If you pay attention to the other scores, all of these screenshots are right on par with the nexus one 2.2+. Still awesome, but don't brag that your benchmark is uber leet, as its probably the same or close to everyone else here regardless of build.
To test my theory, load the same build on another SD card, preferably one that has a lower class (lower read and write speeds) and then run the benchmark and post results.
I will also test a build with cedesmiths initrid explained earlier and post my results
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

Htc hd2 with over 4000 score on quadrant with darkstone super ram nand rom and magldr

phoenixtraveller said:
Hi.
What are people getting on quadrant scores with this (DARKSTONE super-nand-ram rom-IMG) ???
I got 4050. OVER 4000!!!
That is on an Australian HD2 (850mhz with 2.08 radio and magldr 1.11).
and NO OVER CLOCKING AND NO TWEAKS - second boot (first reboot).
Can you make this version compatible with 1536OC kernel or any OC kernel?
THANKS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ALSO: anyone tell me how to get Ubuntu working on NAND/MAGLDR?

How difficult are these rom versions. I boot off sd card but am plagued by very poor battery life. Very poor.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Chris Boyer said:
How difficult are these rom versions. I boot off sd card but am plagued by very poor battery life. Very poor.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As info...the mods will most likely move this post because I think it is in the wrong forum.
As far as how hard, in my opinion, the NAND versions are not difficult to install if you are used to flashing winmo roms. The other types (zip, clockwork) are a little more advanced. I'm sure I could flash them, but do not see the benefit yet. FutureShocks MIUI has been the best I have used so far. It does not score well in Quandrant (for me) but everything is almost instant to my touch. I love the minor differences of the MIUI interface too.

Chris Boyer said:
How difficult are these rom versions. I boot off sd card but am plagued by very poor battery life. Very poor.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Battery life in almost every nand build is super! As good as in original winmo and in some cases even better.
Tested myself more than a few roms.

Any screenshots?

4050 score means NOTHING.
At least you should attach screenshot from pro version of Quadrant as it shows score per cpu/gpu/io ect. As it's RAM build, there is a chance that Quadrant IO test would also run on RAM, but think it's on NAND resulting in large numbers, but actual data reads would be still NAND, and GPU/CPU score might even be lower then in other builds with 2000 total score.
For example you might have 2 builds, one with 1200 score, one with 1500 score, and it doesn't mean that 1500 is better as it's overall score based on different weight per component score. So you can only say that 1500 is always better then 1200 if that's CPU or GPU score, not total.

bjcolema said:
As info...the mods will most likely move this post because I think it is in the wrong forum.
As far as how hard, in my opinion, the NAND versions are not difficult to install if you are used to flashing winmo roms. The other types (zip, clockwork) are a little more advanced. I'm sure I could flash them, but do not see the benefit yet. FutureShocks MIUI has been the best I have used so far. It does not score well in Quandrant (for me) but everything is almost instant to my touch. I love the minor differences of the MIUI interface too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah - it was moved here by Mods from other location so correct now. Yes, they are EASY to install and even clockwork/zip are easy. and if you modify flash.cfg you can have BOTH working in harmony easily (just adding in the lines from clockwork's .cfg and not touching ones belonging to ur daf.exe nand etc).
Futureshocks was great for MIUI. was ok quadrant for me - 2800. but not a MIUI guy really - ppc_shift_ has WINDOWS 7 GUI on ANDROID!
BUT: mdjOC1536 - excellent kernel and yet overall: DARKSTONE supernand rules and broke over 4000. EXCELLENT. ABSOLUTELY AMAZING.
Ive got Ubuntu up to desktop too with magldr.
when 1.12 comes out - anyone having upgrade complications etc?
I task28, task29 and ALSO TASK2A BY MTTY USB as I made my own rom to exit "bricked" mode this leaves. Not that hard really.
Darkstone, SuperNAND, 4000 quadrant+ !!!

white-energy said:
Any screenshots?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For my over 4000?
Yeah... I can do that... Had bad blocks though - over-flashing and bit unstable at first: after 24hrs rom "burnt" in or whatever and working so ill install a shoot-screen app and do.
It doesnt mean THAT much though. Really.

vartp said:
4050 score means NOTHING.
At least you should attach screenshot from pro version of Quadrant as it shows score per cpu/gpu/io ect. As it's RAM build, there is a chance that Quadrant IO test would also run on RAM, but think it's on NAND resulting in large numbers, but actual data reads would be still NAND, and GPU/CPU score might even be lower then in other builds with 2000 total score.
For example you might have 2 builds, one with 1200 score, one with 1500 score, and it doesn't mean that 1500 is better as it's overall score based on different weight per component score. So you can only say that 1500 is always better then 1200 if that's CPU or GPU score, not total.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok. I was not THAT geed up about it really. It fluctuates anyway: lowest=3600. And using Quadrant STANDARD/FREE I got 4000. got 360ms on Setcpu test pls Smartass. Only at 10% increase. 4000 was WITHOUT any overclocking.
I agree it varies and does not mean much but - well - I also disagree it means NOTHING.

lms1407 said:
Battery life in almost every nand build is super! As good as in original winmo and in some cases even better.
Tested myself more than a few roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep - much more than a few. Any bad blocks/problems? Task2a idea ever come into mind? Can be done - ive made a psuedo-rom to truly clean it and bring back: well - more a method and an edited rom from stock to bypass rsa fail crypto test etc. nothing here on xda much about Task2a/HD2. Anyways:
NAND/battery=great.
MAGLDR/battery=bad=kills it+HEAT I believe. charge problem plus sucks out the LIFE.

Quadrant score

What rom has the highest quad score for the vibrant?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Depends on many factors, not just the rom. There's also the Kernel, OCing, UVing and even the launcher.

Highest I have had without an overclock was 2456, and that was on Simply Galaxy v3 RC3 (Port from i9000) with all the tweaks engaged. It was very very fast. Faster than any other ROM I have used, even with overclock. Hell, if I could OC with that ROM I would bet that I could break 3000+ quads easy. But quads are worthless. You just have to try using the phone with the speed of that ROM. I didn't know the vibrant could be that fast.

Running Trigger right now. Get anywhere from 1400-1600. Runs ok. Was just wondering what some of the other Rome were capable of. How is the Simply Galaxy rom? I personally don't know anyone who has used it.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

2750 Quadrant.
Darky 9.5 Froyo 2.2.1 base rom, 1.48Ghz Bullet Kernel linked in my sig.
Phone is FLYIN. Gingerbread 2.3.3 builds can go higher (but have bugs).

I got a Quadrant of 3300.....!!
I was using my TI-83 calculator with a tic-tac stuck in the DC in slot!

2000 flat w/ bi winning V2 no OC w/ voodoo. VERY FAST though. Quadrant doesn't give it justice.

}{Alienz}{ said:
2750 Quadrant.
Darky 9.5 Froyo 2.2.1 base rom, 1.48Ghz Bullet Kernel linked in my sig.
Phone is FLYIN. Gingerbread 2.3.3 builds can go higher (but have bugs).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get the same on darkys rom
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

Quads dont mean anything.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App

I have a 3500 quadrant. On top of that, my battery increases 2% every hour as a result.

I'm running Android 3.3 on mine. 4700 quadrant score and when I plug my usb up to my laptop the phone charges it.

5000 with a V8 hemi under the hood!

With the battery in, I get around 16K but I only get 8K if I take the battery out.
I'm using the FBS ROM.

Speaking of Quadrant...It sucks

cashyftw said:
Speaking of Quadrant...It sucks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second this.
So useless of an app, it has nothing to do with the actually smoothness and snapyness in any phone. Sometimes I feel it's scores are the other way around, the lowest you get the better your phone is

I'm a total lurker, but after "bricking" my vibrant about 3 weeks after getting it home last Fall and discovering the fix here, I've been tweaking, wiping, flashing, odining, and having a helluva lot of fun with it. I'll probably betray myself as still being a noob, but I see everyone kind of poo-pooing Quadrant as meaningless (and other benchmarks, it seems). Is there any objective measurement that you guys consider worthwhile?
I thought I was all hot **** for breaking the 2K mark, but I guess none of that matters?
Trigger 3.2 with Bullet 1.42...just added bullet, so currently OC'd to 1.2 while I get a feel for what the phone can handle.

anthonys2r said:
I have a 3500 quadrant. On top of that, my battery increases 2% every hour as a result.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you currently on and what kernel are you using?

test4vibrant said:
What are you currently on and what kernel are you using?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He was obviously being sarcastic. Can't believe someone fell for the increasing battery **** LOL.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

On Biwinning with o.c. I am getting 2580 ....... but it does not perform ant better than leaving the clock @ 1000 so I leave unclocked ......... I get great battery life then...........

Quadrant is amusing...
but it's not always telling of how a rom actually performs. Back in the day when we were using the OCLF, quad scrores were in the 2k range and that was with 2.1
That being said, I felt compelled to post this anyway, mainly just to show the cpu score improvement that we get with gingerbread. My phone was running Cyanogenmod7 at stock speeds. Comparing quadrant scores between roms that are all based off of each other is pointless.
The 1815 score is from CM7
The 1755 score is from MIUI
MIUI performs great, but it's not as buttery smooth as CM7. But from the two scores you wouldn't see that. More importantly I think this also lends to what I said about comparing two scores between roms that are based off of each other.