Related
This is in the Wiki, but thought I'd repost it here for all those who ask the same silly questions.
What Apps2SD does is shift all of your user applications (that would normally be installed on your phone's /data partition) and moves them onto a specially formatted ext2/ext3 partition on your SD card. This gives you the ability to install more apps than you would normally have the ability to. Sounds great huh? What's so wrong with that?
On the G1/Dream/ADP this app is a must - those phones have only a 256MB flash and only have 75MB for their data partition - it's
outrageous. Apps2SD/Cache2SD are great as they offload it the stuff to the SD card and reduce the limitation.
The HTC Magic (both 32A or 32B) and Hero are the next generation of Android devices though, and these phones have twice the flash of the previous generation (512MB). A large chunk of that (300MB) went to the /data partition, so installing apps isn't an issue.
There's also a number of real disadvantages to using http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Apps2SD&action=createApps2SD:
It will probably slow your apps down as it's thrashing the sd more - even if you have a class 6
you'll reduce the life of your sd card
you won't be able to remove your SD card/mount it on your pc if you wanted to without your phone crashing/apps dying/hanging/etc.
if your SD card is dodgy in the slightest then it will also cause the above.. crashing/hanging/random coredumps, etc - and you'll probably just blame the rom you're using rather than realising it's your SD card.
In the same vein, CompCache/Swap space/Swapper, et al are just as silly if you're a 32A/Hero owner.
Even on the G1/32B's it offers very dubious performance improvement - and there's no need with the 32A/Hero as you have plenty of ram. If you do install it you have all the same negative points I just listed above apply there too as they each use your SD card in much the same way.
Very old.
That post is quite outdated. The information there is relevant and fluid; however, whoever still follows that thread as being something to "take heed" to prior to allowing transfer of their APPS, CACHE, and DATA to the SD card they use...is entirely too broke to even own an Android-based platform.
SD cards nowadays; even the more efficient ones typically cost less than $30, including high-end retailers such as Best Buy and Fry's Electronics.
Who even worries about that crap anymore? That's such nonsense if you ask me. The fact is:
- Even if you could prove with some form of an exact science that utilizing those abilities and storing various amounts of data on your SD card was remotely harmful and could "wear down" (thus lessening the lifespan of the card) it would show that these results would be inconclusive until about a FULL YEAR had gone by.
Run-on sentence. I'm aware. But I had a point to make.
I just finished trying out app2sd in my magic for a few days and everything ran noticibly slower. I also disliked the notion of taking apps offline while copying via usb. I think this article raises valid points. *If* you aren't running out of room, then just leave it. You gain absolutely nothing.
DT
Hahahaha! I was reading for hours and hours of confusing tricks as how to do app2sd and whatever. Now comes a totally destroying tale!
I think ita worth it for a learning session to experiment.
My experience with previous sevaral Symbian phones, as most of them allowed applications to be installed on sd cards and nothing ever went wrong.Fring, Nimbuzz,Maps etc were on almost all times .Especvially Fring or Nimnuzz.
I like mu HTC Magic and put Enom's latest Tmobile ROM.It is fast and stable.Why couldny Android writers gave us the choice in first place- to select you appliocation to install in phone or storage memory like Symbian or WM? Is it something they forgot? Can it be included in future major updates?
It's not a concern of mine.
To put my response earlier quite simply:
I have 4-5 microSDHC cards laying around. All of which are Class 6. I'm not really concerned about "killing" an SD card sooner than it expected. It's an SD card for Christ sake.
Radix999 said:
[*]you'll reduce the life of your sd card
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it's a big deal because nowadays most flash memory come with lifetime or at least 5 years warranty. And by the time my 16GB microsd dies, I probably can buy another one for less than 10 bucks.
tengtengvn said:
I don't think it's a big deal because nowadays most flash memory come with lifetime or at least 5 years warranty. And by the time my 16GB microsd dies, I probably can buy another one for less than 10 bucks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty sure the cost of the card is the last thing to worry about. What if you have pics, docs, video that you haven't backed up for some reason and it takes all your info with it. Besides are people actually installing that many apps? I can't see needing or using more than what the phone can store.
Clinton
Money ain't nothing but paper.
Yessssir.
I could make it rain.
SD cards are so cheap. What's $20 to most people...nothing! Enough said. Thread closed. Lol.
While the cost of a micro SD card is neglible, the damage to your phone when you lose all your apps, preferences, settings and get random hangs, errors, slowdowns while the SD card dies IS an issue.
And who cares if you have a dozen or even hundreds of microsd cards - once you've configured Apps2SD then you're prettymuch stuck with the one you have - try and remove it and be prepared for a screwed up phone.
All this hassle for such little benefit!
Wow.
Radix999 said:
While the cost of a micro SD card is neglible, the damage to your phone when you lose all your apps, preferences, settings and get random hangs, errors, slowdowns while the SD card dies IS an issue.
And who cares if you have a dozen or even hundreds of microsd cards - once you've configured Apps2SD then you're prettymuch stuck with the one you have - try and remove it and be prepared for a screwed up phone.
All this hassle for such little benefit!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bro, common sense...
BACK YOUR **** UP AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE.
Problem averted. I'm a busy guy, but find plenty of time to periodically, whether it's bi-weekly, etc. to back everything up.
We're gravy.
Radix999 said:
2. you'll reduce the life of your sd card
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Click to collapse
As was said, I doubt it will really matter.
And if it does... I prefer to down my SD card, which I can replace (and normally, not all recorded data vanish suddenly if it wears down ! you should only see total memory decreasing, and maybe loosing "some" data)...
....instead of my phone internal memory which I won't be able to replace at all !
I have a magic so for now I can live without apps2SD, though even now I am forced to make choices to get some free space.
Here are some of the issues I had running Apps2SD on my G1:
Backup for root users wouldn't backup apps that were on the SDcard.
If I unmounted or removed the card even with the phone off, many apps would disappear or become corrupt.
Sometimes things would go wrong and the only fix was to reformat and partition the SD card. I had big problems when I was testing Hero roms. I used two different cards and they both had similar issues even though they checked out fine.
Here is why I love Apps2SD:
There are so many great apps for Android and the memory limitations of the G1 would have kept me from being able to give dazzling demos.
Just getting it set up before all the tutorials were available taught me plenty about rooting around the Android guts.
It was really cool to be able to say "oh, you're out of memory? I've got 72MB free with 80 apps installed, but it's no big deal."
I say go ahead and try it out, but be prepared for the worst. I don't remember if Nandroid backups got the apps from the SDcard. I got a Magic PVT 32a with 288MB and never looked back.
Enjoy!
Bwhaha!
I don't back my computer up very often? Hard Drive....What Hard Drive? BIOS is all I got.... Pretty funny!
I don't think anyone is arguing against backups, and I agree the sd destruction argument is somewhat dubious, but that doesn't change the others! The point was: absolutely if you're running a 32b mboard apps2sd is worth a look, but as a magic user, I'm telling you I've tried it and went back after 2 days. The earler post about it being worth it as an experiment might well be true, but I wish I had read that article first!
DT
hi Radix999!
Thank you for porting 32a. My question is, how do i disable App2SD?
I'm using linux so i don't have problem with partions, my problem is to unmount /data/app folder.
Also, will nandroid backup /data folder as well?
Regards
if interested to disable:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5246028
Reignzone said:
Yessssir.
I could make it rain.
SD cards are so cheap. What's $20 to most people...nothing! Enough said. Thread closed. Lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The cheap cost of replacing flash memory won't make the other points go away... and you still have the risk of losing your data. Throw all your money at your phone and you still can't mount your SD card without crashing some apps... all that paper ain't gonna make your apps run faster on Apps2SD than it does on system memory
To begin with, if you got all that dough, why don't you go get a 32A? Or better yet, go grab one of the shiny new phones running Snapdragon, no need for Apps2SD there
the biggest advantage from app2sd for me is not the fact that I can save phone memory even though I have like 80 games and 40 apps installed; but it's because it will save me a lot of time re-installing each and every single app and game between roms testing.
and the biggest disadvantage from app2sd is that your phone depends on that tiny little plastic too much. it wont even turn on without that piece of plastic; and thats very weird cuz i thought app2sd only move other apps (not system apps cuz your system apps are still in /system/app) to your sd card which means system apps should still be able to start your phone without the microsd. But I guess I was wrong cuz my phone wouldn't turn on wihout the sd card installed.
jus my $.02
APP2SD how?
How do you do apps 2 sd? i want to try it out. can some one help or point me to a different forum?
-rooted mt3g 32b
I think the whole life reduction theory is pure b.s whats the difference between you using your micro sd card on the daily bases to transfer data from a computer or having it transfer data in your phone via apps2sd? None at all they use the same transfer mechanism correct?.I have a G1 and a behold 2 been using the same 4GB micro sd card for over 2 years in my G1 I even swapped it and now I use it in my behold 2 (without formatting and without loosing my apps) and have yet to endure any problems/lag slow downs maybe the people who complain simply have no knowledge of the device.both of my phones are rooted with swap partitions and custom firmware and are 2/3 faster than what they were when they came stock.With that being said it will not slow your experience down if you know what you are doing.And you can remove your SDcard without damaging your device you just have to take the BATTERY out before you take the SDCARD out.I do this on the daily bases depending on which phone I prefer to use and theirs no evidence to support the reduction in life for the microsd cards atleast not on any of my devices.
Basic question, i know the specs are far from close, but when you root + ram hack on a G1, will there be much of a performane difference between a Rooted G1 vs a Rooted MT3g?
Questioning becasue i have the option to trade my rooted mt3g for a unlocked/rooted G1. I just hate not having a keyboard
What do you guys think?
Am i making a bad move to downgrade? Or not much of a difference/
The tmobile-branded HTC MAGIC is the 32B version, 192RAM, 512NAND. All HTC DREAM are 192RAM,256NAND. So the ram itself is the same, you just end up with less internal storage.
Just note a couple of things;
1) If you use apps-to-sd, then the internal storage is moot.
2) If you have root, there are no OTA updates, so the 65 MB /cache partition is freed up for other uses.
Personally, I would NEVER switch from this phone to *anything* that lacked a physical keyboard. And that includes a GN1.
lbcoder said:
The tmobile-branded HTC MAGIC is the 32B version, 192RAM, 512NAND. All HTC DREAM are 192RAM,256NAND. So the ram itself is the same, you just end up with less internal storage.
Just note a couple of things;
1) If you use apps-to-sd, then the internal storage is moot.
2) If you have root, there are no OTA updates, so the 65 MB /cache partition is freed up for other uses.
Personally, I would NEVER switch from this phone to *anything* that lacked a physical keyboard. And that includes a GN1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so essentially i would have the same phone with a keyboard when rooted...is the cpu the same ? the 528mhz or whatnot?
jdedeaux said:
so essentially i would have the same phone with a keyboard when rooted...is the cpu the same ? the 528mhz or whatnot?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1)Same CPU speed
yes
2)Same amount of Ram
yes
3)Same amount of ROM/Internal storage
No, this means that larger Roms will not fit on your Dream and you will have to use Apps2SD which makes a rom slower because of the links needed.Swap will also be used but not used on the Magic.It's up to you if any of this matters to you or not.
Ace42 said:
3)Same amount of ROM/Internal storage
No, this means that larger Roms will not fit on your Dream and you will have to use Apps2SD which makes a rom slower because of the links needed.Swap will also be used but not used on the Magic.It's up to you if any of this matters to you or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Incorrect, on all counts.
Larger roms fit just fine as long as you aren't a complete moron about it.
Apps2SD is ***FASTER*** than keeping everything internal. The reason is that you have INCREASED BANDWIDTH!
Just because you are running an app does NOT mean that it is the ONLY thing drawing data from some storage device.
Each piece of hardware has certain bandwidth limits. If you are running a program from the sdcard, then more of the internal storage device's bandwidth is available for other things, thus net speedup!
Symlinks have ZERO effect on performance.
As for swap... wow. Totally WRONG.
The devices have the SAME AMOUNT OF RAM and therefore the SAME requirements for using extra RAM.
If you DECIDE to use swap on one, then since the other has EXACTLY THE SAME amount of RAM, you would also choose to use swap on THE OTHER.
Note: SWAP is SLOW, and it is BAD for NAND. I do NOT recommend it.
lbcoder said:
Incorrect, on all counts.
Larger roms fit just fine as long as you aren't a complete moron about it.
Apps2SD is ***FASTER*** than keeping everything internal. The reason is that you have INCREASED BANDWIDTH!
Just because you are running an app does NOT mean that it is the ONLY thing drawing data from some storage device.
Each piece of hardware has certain bandwidth limits. If you are running a program from the sdcard, then more of the internal storage device's bandwidth is available for other things, thus net speedup!
Symlinks have ZERO effect on performance.
Note: SWAP is SLOW, and it is BAD for NAND. I do NOT recommend it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry, bro. i generally agree with what you say... but apps2sd is NOT faster. I've used it with a Mytouch before i knew jack **** about internal storage space (this is my first actual smartphone not counting a blackberry) and once i got rid of it my phone has been quite faster. not to mention it burnt up the sdcard i got with the phone and another one i bought. (probably wont have this problem with a class 6.)
swap? lol. man how many times do i hear this. swap is personal pref. sure it slows your phone down. but 32mb backing-swap works wonders for me. it all depends on how you use your phone. and by NAND i hope you don't mean a nandroid backup. not once since I've had this phone has swap ever affected my nandroid backup in any little way whatsoever.
edit: oh as for physical keyboard: i was same way. had a friend with an iPhone and of course i played with it. well, i eventually learned how to use the keyboard so when i went to go get a g1 i decided to go all touchscreen and what can i say? i'm faster texting with a touchscreen than i am a physical keyboard. also, I have to point out that symbols are much easier to access. and when you have to write a long e-mail to college professors it's nice to be able to use them quickly and efficiently.
So, down to the nitty gritty?
It seems like everyone is more of a fan of the G1 vs the MT3g?
Is that the verdict?
To trade or not to trade, that is the question.
r3s-rt said:
sorry, bro. i generally agree with what you say... but apps2sd is NOT faster. I've used it with a Mytouch before i knew jack **** about internal storage space (this is my first actual smartphone not counting a blackberry) and once i got rid of it my phone has been quite faster. not to mention it burnt up the sdcard i got with the phone and another one i bought. (probably wont have this problem with a class 6.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You either had a defect, or did something wrong. By your own admission, you know **Mod Edit **about internal storage.
lbcoder said:
You either had a defect, or did something wrong. By your own admission, you know **Mod Edit** about internal storage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you're going to try and come off more educated than me, then may i suggest you read my whole post? much less go back to third grade english.
r3s-rt said:
sorry, bro. i generally agree with what you say... but apps2sd is NOT faster. I've used it with a Mytouch before i knew jack **** about internal storage space (this is my first actual smartphone not counting a blackberry) and once i got rid of it my phone has been quite faster. not to mention it burnt up the sdcard i got with the phone and another one i bought. (probably wont have this problem with a class 6.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
r3s-rt said:
I've used it with a Mytouch before i knew jack **** about internal storage space
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's also a number of real disadvantages to using ?Apps2SD:
1. It will probably slow your apps down as it's thrashing the sd more - even if you have a class 6
2. you'll reduce the life of your sd card
3. you won't be able to remove your SD card/mount it on your pc if you wanted to without your phone crashing/apps dying/hanging/etc.
4. if your SD card is dodgy in the slightest then it will also cause the above.. 5. crashing/hanging/random coredumps, etc - and you'll probably just blame the rom you're using rather than realising it's your SD card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
taken from xda-wiki... maybe you need to look at... number 2? **Mod Edit **sdcard + walmart doesn't equal class 6, giving it an ever higher chance of dieing.
jdedeaux said:
So, down to the nitty gritty?
It seems like everyone is more of a fan of the G1 vs the MT3g?
Is that the verdict?
To trade or not to trade, that is the question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The verdict is that the DREAM is an UPGRADE.
There's also a number of real disadvantages to using ?Apps2SD:
1. It will probably slow your apps down as it's thrashing the sd more - even if you have a class 6
2. you'll reduce the life of your sd card
3. you won't be able to remove your SD card/mount it on your pc if you wanted to without your phone crashing/apps dying/hanging/etc.
4. if your SD card is dodgy in the slightest then it will also cause the above.. 5. crashing/hanging/random coredumps, etc - and you'll probably just blame the rom you're using rather than realising it's your SD card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1.... well you will note that it says "probably" -- it does NOT say "definitely". There ARE circumstances where it WILL make things slower, such as when ALSO using SWAPPING.
I would like to point out a technology called RAID. Specifically, a subset of RAID: RAID 0 "striping". With this technology, you use two or more disks together to increase the performance. Overall data throughput is typically the SUM of the throughput of each individual disk.
This isn't quite as sophisticated as striping, but it has the same kind of effect -- that the overall peak throughput will be the sum of the throughput of the individual components.
2 is true of ANYTHING that writes data to your sdcard. Running applications on your sdcard does not typically write ANYTHING -- it is simply the process of INSTALLING them that writes. You can READ them an UNLIMITED number of times. As a result, it is NOT VALID.
3 *partly* incorrect. You can't *remove* the card (how many people actually do remove it? Answer: not many), but you CERTAINLY CAN mount it to your computer and read/write the fat32 partition (read only on the ext). Doing this does NOT cause ANY instability.
4 and 5 are the same thing, and this also applies to your INTERNAL NAND or ANY OTHER storage device that you happen to own. Your home computer, for example. What does it do if the hard disk starts to fail? Things start crashing and it gets real slow.
Summary of 1 through 5: Not applicable.
Just because the information goes over your head (clearly WAY over your head) does NOT mean that there is anything wrong with it.
And for your information, I am reporting this. This kind of disrespect has no place in civilized conversation.
Post tidied up. Next step is to ban anyone who continues to be abusive.
Remain on topic and civil. If you can't respond in that manner then don't post.
WB
lol you guys are nuts, i asked if i should keep my MT3g or trade a guy for his G1 and it got so bad the mods had to come in... now thats a ****ing nerd rage if i've ever seen one... Not being rude but you guys are the reason I can come here to ask these questions because i know im not gonna get a biased answer. Everyone DEFINITELY has their own opinions.
so..
G1 - 1 MT3G - 0
Anyone gonna ante up the MT3G or top off w/ the G1...
Just because you aren't swearing doesn't mean you aren't being abusive. Knock it off.
To the OP, it really varies on what you want. What matters more to you? To me, the hardware keyboard is a GIGANTIC plus. But I don't mind the extra bulk of the HTC Dream. Unless you have the upgraded RAM Magic, then the Dream is better imho.
Also, to finish things once and for all, Apps2sd will not have a gigantic impact on your SD card, at all. Yes, flash does have a limited life, and yes, apps2sd will kill that faster, but it won't be as fast as people are saying. Swap on SD, however, WILL kill flash relatively fast.
http://www.androidcentral.com/gingerbread-brings-ext4-file-system-new-devices
Hopefully if we get some Gingerbread ROM action they utilize the ext4 option.
"In an almost overlooked note on the Android Developers Blog, Tim Bray lets us know that starting with the Nexus S and Gingerbread, some Android devices will be moving from the YAFFS file system to the ext4 file system. This is going to bring a big boost in input and output file operations, and explains some of the amazing speed improvements we're already seeing on the Nexus S.
Two things to mention here -- the increase in speed comes with a cost, and not all current (or new) devices will see this change. The lifespan of the media will be reduced by using the ext4 file system, but modern solid state memory should still last for quite a few years, so I don't see a serious problem with it. The other issue is which phones will see this boost. I've a gut feeling that this is reserved for only new devices with big internal memory space, like the Nexus S, that have a controller that can use it. I wouldn't count on your current phone to get this change -- at least officially -- but hopefully manufacturers will make sure their new devices meet the needed specs."
Yep, I think we will be stuck with sammy's file system.
My SD card reader died yesterday, so I can't use the camera or titanium backup, and for the life of me I can't seem to make them use internal storage, I would really like to know, or I am going to have to buy a new phone.
Sent from my myTouch 4G using xda app-developers app
The simple answer is - you can't.
The complex answer is - you might be able to add a "virtual" filesystem through a big file mounted from internal memory under /sdcard mount, but for that I imagine you'd have to recompile a kernel with those changes. Even if you're proficient with that stuff, counting the number of hours it'll take you to do it vs the price of SD flex cable on eBay will likely be in favor of buying a cable.
Jack_R1 said:
The simple answer is - you can't.
The complex answer is - you might be able to add a "virtual" filesystem through a big file mounted from internal memory under /sdcard mount, but for that I imagine you'd have to recompile a kernel with those changes. Even if you're proficient with that stuff, counting the number of hours it'll take you to do it vs the price of SD flex cable on eBay will likely be in favor of buying a cable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info, i might try it as a side project. But i am going to go buy the Samsung galaxy note 2, and keep this phone and try and fix it.
I am getting a new phone next week after 3 years of using an iphone 4. I like to watch alot of movies, and was deciding if I should get this phone, but I was concerned about the storage. I know you get nearly 25GB of actual storage in this phone and I was wondering if I should use most of that storage for movies leaving a small amount of space left over, would this slow down the phone as a whole and make it lag? I read somewhere that you are supposed to leave a certain amount of storage space free for optimal phone performance. Just wondering if that was the case with this phone