Database Users

a thread of hope!!!

the end has not come, this community is smart it will find a work around for all of this, i am sure. don't throw out ur g1 or say to hell with google (yet) they have not issued a formal public statement about this yet so be patient and pray and tell Google what they are doing to us all and most of all support our devs we will find a way!!!

Hah, I thought there would be some useful information in this thread. Anywho, Google's already damaged it's reputation, I've already decided I'm no longer supporting their OS. Oh and now I look like a twat for telling everyone how great it is >.<

AdrianK said:
Hah, I thought there would be some useful information in this thread. Anywho, Google's already damaged it's reputation, I've already decided I'm no longer supporting their OS. Oh and now I look like a twat for telling everyone how great it is >.<
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol i put in general 1 because that's where it belongs and 2 because i did not want people to think it was something of developmental use sorry about that. and like i said they have not made on official statement yet so say maybe they just wont want anyone to include the apps like the blog post seems to be trying say.

Hope! Only if Google takes the stick out.
Official Google response
HTML:
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2009/09/note-on-google-apps-for-android.html
the problem from my perspective is that Google has a little known problem of Premature Release, probably in every sense of the term. the Android OS SHOULDN’T have been release as it stood. way too many short comings. so people that needed more phone functionality looked other places. guess what? Cyanogen filled that need. if Google wanted to keep their apps closed source then the Android OS should have stayed in RD for at least another year to make it a more robust OS that could compete with the Win Mo, and iFunk phones. for those of us that jumped on the wagon early, we were willing to wait for the Community to catch it up. now that Google has taken that away from us, i will not only be looking for a replacement to the G1, but will also, be using word of mouth to condemn their product, what they did and what they will probably continue to do. yep, I'm a schmuck for saying all those great things to early - premature release, it's contagious.
i will be looking for a replacement to my G1. funny, I now have a bad taste in my mouth (premature release, haha). any suggestions? Maybe the HTC Touch Pro II. yep, thats right, you heard it here first. i will be sporting one of those other evil imperial phones mentioned earlier. right after i honor my contractual obligation to my cell provider. BTW, shouldn't paying for the device, cell connectivity, and data plans in and of itself license the apps on the device? it came pre-bundled with those apps when I took it out of the package. another instance of Corporate America fleecing the American middle class!
GOOGLE - wanna see market share run out the door? keep doing what you are doing. keep releasing inferior products to the public, see how that goes.
this world is going to crap! AIG, Blackwater, Iraq, Enron, WorldComm, George W. Bush President for 8 years, Mike Vick able to play in the NFL, Google releases an Open Source OS and then closes it??? WTF? Time for a good ole rebellion against the Man and the Machine. Let your voice be heard!!!
I’m done.!

Frogzilla said:
Official Google response
HTML:
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2009/09/note-on-google-apps-for-android.html
the problem from my perspective is that Google has a little known problem of Premature Release, probably in every sense of the term. the Android OS SHOULDN’T have been release as it stood. way too many short comings. so people that needed more phone functionality looked other places. guess what? Cyanogen filled that need. if Google wanted to keep their apps closed source then the Android OS should have stayed in RD for at least another year to make it a more robust OS that could compete with the Win Mo, and iFunk phones. for those of us that jumped on the wagon early, we were willing to wait for the Community to catch it up. now that Google has taken that away from us, i will not only be looking for a replacement to the G1, but will also, be using word of mouth to condemn their product, what they did and what they will probably continue to do. yep, I'm a schmuck for saying all those great things to early - premature release, it's contagious.
i will be looking for a replacement to my G1. funny, I now have a bad taste in my mouth (premature release, haha). any suggestions? Maybe the HTC Touch Pro II. yep, thats right, you heard it here first. i will be sporting one of those other evil imperial phones mentioned earlier. right after i honor my contractual obligation to my cell provider. BTW, shouldn't paying for the device, cell connectivity, and data plans in and of itself license the apps on the device? it came pre-bundled with those apps when I took it out of the package. another instance of Corporate America fleecing the American middle class!
GOOGLE - wanna see market share run out the door? keep doing what you are doing. keep releasing inferior products to the public, see how that goes.
this world is going to crap! AIG, Blackwater, Iraq, Enron, WorldComm, George W. Bush President for 8 years, Mike Vick able to play in the NFL, Google releases an Open Source OS and then closes it??? WTF? Time for a good ole rebellion against the Man and the Machine. Let your voice be heard!!!
I’m done.!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I was also telling all my iFriends how great android was, as the previous iPhone user they're going to laugh in my face *sigh*
Time for an eBay listing :-(

Frogzilla said:
Official Google response
HTML:
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2009/09/note-on-google-apps-for-android.html
the problem from my perspective is that Google has a little known problem of Premature Release, probably in every sense of the term. the Android OS SHOULDN’T have been release as it stood. way too many short comings. so people that needed more phone functionality looked other places. guess what? Cyanogen filled that need. if Google wanted to keep their apps closed source then the Android OS should have stayed in RD for at least another year to make it a more robust OS that could compete with the Win Mo, and iFunk phones. for those of us that jumped on the wagon early, we were willing to wait for the Community to catch it up. now that Google has taken that away from us, i will not only be looking for a replacement to the G1, but will also, be using word of mouth to condemn their product, what they did and what they will probably continue to do. yep, I'm a schmuck for saying all those great things to early - premature release, it's contagious.
i will be looking for a replacement to my G1. funny, I now have a bad taste in my mouth (premature release, haha). any suggestions? Maybe the HTC Touch Pro II. yep, thats right, you heard it here first. i will be sporting one of those other evil imperial phones mentioned earlier. right after i honor my contractual obligation to my cell provider. BTW, shouldn't paying for the device, cell connectivity, and data plans in and of itself license the apps on the device? it came pre-bundled with those apps when I took it out of the package. another instance of Corporate America fleecing the American middle class!
GOOGLE - wanna see market share run out the door? keep doing what you are doing. keep releasing inferior products to the public, see how that goes.
this world is going to crap! AIG, Blackwater, Iraq, Enron, WorldComm, George W. Bush President for 8 years, Mike Vick able to play in the NFL, Google releases an Open Source OS and then closes it??? WTF? Time for a good ole rebellion against the Man and the Machine. Let your voice be heard!!!
I’m done.!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the moment i lose hope ill go underground and stating making making bombs for the rebellion.jk but seriously we have nothing more than a vague blog post and are we just kind of reading into and thinking they are going to start being heavy handed like the others. but we don't know for sure yet so like i said just wait before we all start jumping ship.

Some people seem to be mistaken. Android, although owned by Google, are not one in the same. Android is open source, not googles apps. I agree it sucks and Android is almost useless without google apps, but you can't really hate Android for what their parent company is doing. I am sure we will figure something out.
DISTRIBUTING google apps is illegal. When we purchased our device we also bought the right to USE the non-open apps. NOT the right to distribute them. So it is NOT illegal to make "roms" for personaly use right? So if rom developers made roms for "personal use" and someone happened to get a hold of the rom and made a torrent, then the developer would not be in the wrong correct?

CBowley said:
Some people seem to be mistaken. Android, although owned by Google, are not one in the same. Android is open source, not googles apps. I agree it sucks and Android is almost useless without google apps, but you can't really hate Android for what their parent company is doing. I am sure we will figure something out.
DISTRIBUTING google apps is illegal. When we purchased our device we also bought the right to USE the non-open apps. NOT the right to distribute them. So it is NOT illegal to make "roms" for personaly use right? So if rom developers made roms for "personal use" and someone happened to get a hold of the rom and made a torrent, then the developer would not be in the wrong correct?
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Click to collapse
or if just made backups or alternatives then i think google will honestly will leave us be. as long we are no trying to get leaked apps left and right its all the leaked builds and apps that are pissing them off. if was htc i would be pissed about all the hero roms being about long before the phone was available its like posting warzs almost.

There are already far too many threads on this subject that I've left open. Please keep discussion in those threads. Thanks!

G2 rootkit, prevents any permenant modification.

Just as the title stated Gizmodo has an article on how g2 revert to stock after reboot. This makes me feel better about owning a vibrant because of samsung lackluster support. Anyway, the point of this thread is about the " root kit" and your thought, discussion, etc
I personally think this is a low blow on htc part, especially looking at their track record with android.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Edit: now I have access to a computer here's the link to article (which summarize and link back what is already here at G2 forum, haha)
http://gizmodo.com/5656921/t+mobiles-g2-rootkit-will-reinstall-stock-android-after-a-jailbreak
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Click to collapse

they apparently can't even remove bloatware as it reinstalls upon reboot

Unfortunately locking down android phones is an inevitability. As more and more people transition their daily net use to smartphones so will the purveyors of malware. Making it more difficult to root is a necessary evil. The g2 has a backdoor otherwise there'd be no way to ota updates. It will be discovered. Though it might take more time than the couple of days the phone has been available. Relax
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

masterotaku said:
Unfortunately locking down android phones is an inevitability. As more and more people transition their daily net use to smartphones so will the purveyors of malware. Making it more difficult to root is a necessary evil. The g2 has a backdoor otherwise there'd be no way to ota updates. It will be discovered. Though it might take more time than the couple of days the phone has been available. Relax
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agreed that the developers here will have no problem figuring out the backdoor as they are awesome. However, one can not ignore the fact that HTC which is known to promote customization, decided to install this type of "rootkit". Malware is inevitable which is why Google needs to step up their game, being "OPEN" does not mean no intervention of any sort. Simply looking through the app for malware while not irrationally rejecting App would bring a much needed safety net.
Makes me wonder if it is T-Mobile who requested the system to be put in place.

Its more accurate to say that HTC has been in the game longer with popular android handsets than deliberately having been more open than others. It might seem a tad ironic given the level of impatience with Samsung over updates and whatnot but they have been far more open with the galaxy s than pretty much any other manufacturer and any other phone....HTC included...
If its any consolation the non Tmobile version of this phone seems to have the same restrictions.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

IF this is true, and I step back from being a fan of Android, it actually makes sense.
With Android, as with any consumer electronic product, "power-users" are a small percentage of total users. Applying this truth to Android, I think you can extrapolate out that manufacturers, don't want power-users causing all kinds of support nightmares (like bricking their phones and returning them as defective), so they start increase the effort required to do power-user type things.
I prefer to look at it in practical terms as the manufacturers saying, "If you want to do developer type things, you need to get developer type hardware."
It sux because the developer device won't ever be able to "keep up with the Joneses" as far as coolness factor. However, if you just reference all of the posts of people doing stuff the manufacturer did not intend for them to do, then claiming their phone was defective, and getting a new one, the manufacturers are almost forced into doing stuff like this.

Now you mentioned it, it was really easy to root and modify the phone compare to other phones "traditional" methods.
It is understandable of why people (myself included) were anxious of Samsung as they have horrible update history compare to HTC or Motorola in recent times. If Samsung can push out their update in a more timely manner, I wouldn't put it pass myself to say that Galaxy S is the best android phone on the market.
Perhaps the rollback is due to internal bugs similar to the storage issues G2 is having as well which is possible considered that a messaged up storage would not keep the changes made.

i'm sure this rootkit won't be a problem for long.

funeralthirst said:
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7089/whatrootkit.jpg
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Click to collapse
the what rootkit image was a joke per chris.
the problem with this is that there was recently a ruling that jailbreaking your device is legal - this move is in direct violation to the DCMA ruling.

byt3b0mb said:
the what rootkit image was a joke per chris.
the problem with this is that there was recently a ruling that jailbreaking your device is legal - this move is in direct violation to the DCMA ruling.
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Click to collapse
i know it was a joke, which is why i took down the link. but it was funny.
this isn't a violation, though. the act of jailbreaking/rooting a phone is legal, but that doesn't mean manufacturers can't try and restrict/prevent people from doing it.

devcurious said:
IF this is true, and I step back from being a fan of Android, it actually makes sense.
With Android, as with any consumer electronic product, "power-users" are a small percentage of total users. Applying this truth to Android, I think you can extrapolate out that manufacturers, don't want power-users causing all kinds of support nightmares (like bricking their phones and returning them as defective), so they start increase the effort required to do power-user type things.
I prefer to look at it in practical terms as the manufacturers saying, "If you want to do developer type things, you need to get developer type hardware."
It sux because the developer device won't ever be able to "keep up with the Joneses" as far as coolness factor. However, if you just reference all of the posts of people doing stuff the manufacturer did not intend for them to do, then claiming their phone was defective, and getting a new one, the manufacturers are almost forced into doing stuff like this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that HTC didn't want it, but T-Mobile did. They removed tethering from the 2.2 build. They know that the first thing that rooters do is install tethering software to their Android devices. So yeah, TMO prolly asked HTC to block root so that people wouldn't be tethering all the time.
On 7.2 devices, that wasn't a big issue, but the G2 can theoretically get up to twice as fast as our Vibrants, and with TMO only using 10mhz or so for their HSPA+ deployments, they're probably concerned with too much tethering hurting network performance.

I love how the arguments on that website keep pointing to how its going to ruin android and how android is open source. Last time I checked Android is an operating system not hardware. Either T-mobile locked it or HTC. I'm going to bet like everybody else that its T-Mobiles doing.
The only thing its going to do honestly is piss off future buyers and they will either avoid that phone or wait for it to be rooted. When the G1 came out I waited until it was rooted then I bought. Vibrant I waited until it was confrimed to be rooted. Of course that was nearly before it hit the market so I bought nearly the day it was available.
So T-Mobile I hope you don't mind loosing sales on that model because its going to happen. I was -| |- close to buying that for my wife. I guess now its not going to happen and if she wants something else first then well you lost her business.

if assholes wouldn't tether 5+ gigs (or way way more) a month then come to the forums bragging about it....we might not have this issue
but people want to abuse it and use tethering for ****ing torrents
morons

But what a boneheaded move. They must have known that many people wanted the G2 as a successor to the N1 as a dev phone.

Why is this in the vibrant section, this has nothing to do with the vibrant
The cake is a lie!

Maybe this is why the G2 folks won't see the full 4G ram that's becasue HTC used part of it to store the firmware to be rewrite when it detects an modification to the phone. Now, who else is dumping the vibrant for the G2?

im sure the devs will figure out a way around this pretty quick lol

PaiPiePia said:
Malware is inevitable which is why Google needs to step up their game, being "OPEN" does not mean no intervention of any sort. Simply looking through the app for malware while not irrationally rejecting App would bring a much needed safety net.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And what is malware? Any app that reads your SMS? Well, Handcent needs to do that.
Any app that can dial? Google Maps can do that (not to mention the many Dialer replacements).
Any app that requests GPS? Well, if it's not in /system & your GPS is turned off, it can't turn it back on & if you want that app to remain free, the advertiser wants to target market.
Any app that sends your data someplace? Then just about everything on the phone is useless.
How can you look through the app & determine what is malware? Inspect the sourcecode manually? Some apps take nearly a year to get approved for the iDevices. Devs would abandon the Android Market if that started happening pretty quickly. The iDevices have a proven $ turnaround while Android has a pretty hefty piracy rate & others that just don't want to pay for any app because they shouldn't have to because the OS is open and free and so should the apps be.
byt3b0mb said:
the problem with this is that there was recently a ruling that jailbreaking your device is legal - this move is in direct violation to the DCMA ruling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because it is legal for you to do it doesn't mean it is illegal for the manufacturer to make it as hard on you as possible.
trashcan said:
Maybe this is why the G2 folks won't see the full 4G ram that's becasue HTC used part of it to store the firmware to be rewrite when it detects an modification to the phone. Now, who else is dumping the vibrant for the G2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would make complete sense since they effectively need to keep a backup of the OS on hand in case you delete something....with most phones if you delete it, it's gone, you can't factory format back to stock (without a proper backup).
Since this was pretty much advertised as an upgrade to the G1 (hence the name and it coming out just about 2 years later), and most G1 owners were basically tech savvy people, this can't be good for HTC or TMO. This phone more than most others (excepting the N1) is the phone that the people who WANT root would be upgrading to (except for those of us that already swapped to the Vibrant).

Oops 10chars

HTC rocks!!!!!!!

Swype as Warez

With Swype now officially onboard with the latest Sense update, are Swype apks still going to be considered illegal? I could see why trading apks from a closed beta would be considered illegal, but now that Swype is natively supported on the Evo, it would make sense (pun!) that the ban on apks be lifted.
I say this mostly because I'm on CM6.1 and I'd like to stay away from Sense if possible, but also because someone might as well have asked.

Sure, I'm sure they have a licensing agreement in place with Sprint. Read = $$$
But in this case it would be Sprint sending the C&D's, so we have to see if they will do that (I can't remember them doing that in the past.)

TheMagicalSock said:
With Swype now officially onboard with the latest Sense update, are Swype apks still going to be considered illegal? I could see why trading apks from a closed beta would be considered illegal, but now that Swype is natively supported on the Evo, it would make sense (pun!) that the ban on apks be lifted.
I say this mostly because I'm on CM6.1 and I'd like to stay away from Sense if possible, but also because someone might as well have asked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure this hasn't changed.
If CS5 came preloaded on my laptop, would it be okay to distribute it on a open forum? For one, it'd be illegal to distribute, period, but also anyone could come in and download regardless of whether they own that particular laptop or not.

I disagree with your comparison. Adobe products are incredibly complex software suites that cost hundreds of dollars. Swype is a keyboard that has been freely distributed to members of a beta for several months. If CS5 came preloaded on a computer, you would have one key that would be pointless to distribute anyway. Since there's no licensing or money involved with the way Evo users have suddenly acquired Swype, would that change the situation a bit?
I don't want to play dumb and say your comparison made no sense, because I completely see what you meant, but it seems to me that this is a different situation. However, you may very well be right.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

While openly posting the apk will still probably be frowned on, developers will probably be allowed to include the version released with this update in their roms. At least I see no reason a rom based off of the 3.70.* sprint release wouldn't be allowed to keep the software that was packaged with it.
Sent from my HTC SuperSonic 4G using the XDA app.

TheMagicalSock said:
I disagree with your comparison. Adobe products are incredibly complex software suites that cost hundreds of dollars. Swype is a keyboard that has been freely distributed to members of a beta for several months. If CS5 came preloaded on a computer, you would have one key that would be pointless to distribute anyway. Since there's no licensing or money involved with the way Evo users have suddenly acquired Swype, would that change the situation a bit?
I don't want to play dumb and say your comparison made no sense, because I completely see what you meant, but it seems to me that this is a different situation. However, you may very well be right.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's just not gonna fly. Copyright infringement is copyright infringement regardless of scale. Sprint paid a fee to distribute it, you did not. Therefore you cannot distribute it.
It actually is an apples-to-apples comparison. Take a Microsoft product beta like Office 2010. Clearly warez, just like the Swype beta. Office suite or keyboard is irrelevant.

i think that he's just assuming that since we freely spread literally every other .apk that comes on our phone, that this shouldn't be any different. i honestly dont see why we wouldn't be able to share this now.
Sense UI is licensed and it also comes on our phone, you dont hear any problem about us spreading that in most of the roms on here. if it comes on the phone, we should be allow to install it on our phone. the only reason i could see the mods not wanting to let is is due to request strait from swype inc. we'll have to hear from a mod. does the swype that it comes with include a voice key? just curious.

Sprint is giving anyone who has an Evo active on their service a copy of Swype. (By bundling it in the update) As long as it is only traded among people who have Evos active on Sprint service I think it would be very hard to make a case for copyright infringement when everyone doing the "infringing" has access to a legit licensed copy of the file in question.

I would ask a MOD that question. I think it's a question that they would ACTUALLY be able to answer instead of beating around the bush.

Well Technically if your on CM6 your not supposed to be using any google app whatsoever thats why CM doesnt include them in is work because of the C&D letter he got from Google. So I would assume if your trying to do it the right way with Swype then if they havent licensed CM to put it on his Roms, I wouldnt do it, I would flash to a Sense based rom using ADW or Launcher pro to use Swype.

Mactagonist said:
Sprint is giving anyone who has an Evo active on their service a copy of Swype. (By bundling it in the update) As long as it is only traded among people who have Evos active on Sprint service I think it would be very hard to make a case for copyright infringement when everyone doing the "infringing" has access to a legit licensed copy of the file in question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good case to be made as well. It's all about Sprint coming down on us now instead of the creators of Swype. And I haven't seen Sprint do that, for example with the VVM apk's floating around.
In theory, it's still wrong but in practice I think we're safe.

gqstatus0685 said:
I would ask a MOD that question. I think it's a question that they would ACTUALLY be able to answer instead of beating around the bush.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mods don't necessarily know one way or the other. If they want to err on the side of caution, they will say no. On the other hand, other forums' mods don't care and will ask for a C&D order before taking anything down.

As seen on the XDA Frontpage.
What this means, in essence, is that the EVO joins the list of devices that are approved to have Swype included in roms. Still, our stance on Swype is the same as before. Distribution of Swype by any other means than roms for OEM licensed devices is prohibited on xda-developers.
So, find your favorite rom and see if has been blessed with this keyboard already
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In case you can't read, Swype can be included in ROMS. It is against the rules to post just the .APK.

Ahh, there we go. An answer. Anyway, I don't think my reasoning is all that far-fetched. As some other people have said, it's not quite as simple as an Office 2010 beta or an Adobe product; we hand out apks on deodexed ROMs like candy on this forum (someone mentioned Sense-based apks - even Sprint apps like Visual Voicemail are questionable).
Anyway, I thought it would be a good point of discussion. I think the Evo's support for Swype will mean far less policing when it comes to Swype apks, at least here on the Evo forum.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

TheMagicalSock said:
Anyway, I thought it would be a good point of discussion. I think the Evo's support for Swype will mean far less policing when it comes to Swype apks, at least here on the Evo forum.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I think it will be interesting to see. Especially seeing that an apk was posted yesterday and the post a Mod made on the homepage was today. I think it is really if someone reports it or if a Mod just happens to roll across it.

Is it just me...

Or does it seem like Honeycomb was rushed out. I get a lot of force closes on my browser and other apps that were installed when I get my Xoom. Does anyone else get that?

Nope, it's just you, nobody has never made a thread like this ever in this forum.
Next time put something real in the title.

Google is going to f***ing dissenchant me with all their little f***ing two sided antics. OK I get it, blah blah open f***ing source etc. But you can't have it both ways. You want to make a liberal system that can be taken advantage of freely by developers and promote creativity and freedom, great. But you do half the work and allow the cyanogenmod team to smooth out the rest of the quarks and make your OS closer to an expected consumer user experience, voiding peoples warranty in the process. Even at this point, OK. BUT YOU CAN'T F***ING HAVE THE HARDWARE MANUFACTURERS AND CARRIERS PARADING AROUND LIKE ITS OK TO MILK A HALF BAKED OS BY SUCKING PEOPLE DRY WITH INSANE UNJUSTIFIABLE PRICES, ESPECIALLY WHEN NOT EVEN ONE CENT OF ANY OF THE SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT COMES OUT OF THEIR POCKET.
Google needs to put the f***ing squeeze on these a*****es or realize that they are full of s***.

IndivisibleP said:
Language in quote cleaned.
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Click to collapse
Lolololol its a breath of fresh air seeing someone comment with this much emotion
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

IndivisibleP said:
Google is going to f***ing dissenchant me with all their little f***ing two sided antics. OK I get it, blah blah open f***ing source etc. But you can't have it both ways. You want to make a liberal system that can be taken advantage of freely by developers and promote creativity and freedom, great. But you do half the work and allow the cyanogenmod team to smooth out the rest of the quarks and make your OS closer to an expected consumer user experience, voiding peoples warranty in the process. Even at this point, OK. BUT YOU CAN'T F***ING HAVE THE HARDWARE MANUFACTURERS AND CARRIERS PARADING AROUND LIKE ITS OK TO MILK A HALF BAKED OS BY SUCKING PEOPLE DRY WITH INSANE UNJUSTIFIABLE PRICES, ESPECIALLY WHEN NOT EVEN ONE CENT OF ANY OF THE SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT COMES OUT OF THEIR POCKET.
Google needs to put the f***ing squeeze on these a*****es or realize that they are full of s***.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and THE OP
Nobody forced you to buy anything. Is honeycomb perfect? no we already know this. 2.2 or 2.3 is not perfect so not sure what you expected. We got earthquakes, tsunamis, and civil wars going on and you are worried about some force closes. You dont like it dont buy it. You should feel lucky you even have the choice to buy a Xoom. Quit your *****in.

IndivisibleP said:
INSANE UNJUSTIFIABLE PRICES
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Click to collapse
Sounds like you can't really afford the Xoom. Maybe you should just take it back and get a refund. Yes, I think that's the best course for everyone involved.

DroidzFX said:
and THE OP
Nobody forced you to buy anything. Is honeycomb perfect? no we already know this. 2.2 or 2.3 is not perfect so not sure what you expected. We got earthquakes, tsunamis, and civil wars going on and you are worried about some force closes. You dont like it dont buy it. You should feel lucky you even have the choice to buy a Xoom. Quit your *****in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasn't "*****in" as you like to put it I was merely asking a question as to whether this was a common thing or if mine was just having problems and maybe I should reload it or something to fix it. If you can't say anything constructive maybe you should avoid using that 1st amendment right of yours.

matdev said:
I wasn't "*****in" as you like to put it I was merely asking a question as to whether this was a common thing or if mine was just having problems and maybe I should reload it or something to fix it. If you can't say anything constructive maybe you should avoid using that 1st amendment right of yours.
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Click to collapse
Maybe you should do some research because this question has been asked several times. If the same question or statement is mentioned over and over then it becomes classified as *****in. Unfortunately you fell into this category.

I think the price is fair...and Moto does have software dev time in it - Kernel time at a minimum. I'm fully aware Google was involved in the design process of the device, but I doubt other than a ton of OEM support to Moto that they actually have a ton of resources invested in the device it self.
I guess no one has looked in to purchasing a 32Gb SSD - those alone are $100.
10" screen ~$100 for just a screen without any touch digitizer
So 200 bucks in cost in 2 pieces of hardware.
One of the problems with the Android community as a whole is everyone whining about price. The price of hardware, the price of apps. The Apple drones could care less about price, they'll pay what they are asked to pay regardless of any other thought than "It's white, it has fruit on it" . I however am a fairly informed consumer and am WILLING to pay for latest and greatest as long as it serves my needs.
However, the lack of HC Source has made me reconsider the purchase....

Kcarpenter said:
I think the price is fair...and Moto does have software dev time in it - Kernel time at a minimum. I'm fully aware Google was involved in the design process of the device, but I doubt other than a ton of OEM support to Moto that they actually have a ton of resources invested in the device it self.
I guess no one has looked in to purchasing a 32Gb SSD - those alone are $100.
10" screen ~$100 for just a screen without any touch digitizer
So 200 bucks in cost in 2 pieces of hardware.
One of the problems with the Android community as a whole is everyone whining about price. The price of hardware, the price of apps. The Apple drones could care less about price, they'll pay what they are asked to pay regardless of any other thought than "It's white, it has fruit on it" . I however am a fairly informed consumer and am WILLING to pay for latest and greatest as long as it serves my needs.
However, the lack of HC Source has made me reconsider the purchase....
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Click to collapse
You have to think though, that by not releasing the source.. they are doing their best to avoid some of the issues spoken about previously. Too often manufacturers would like to prey on the uneducated or the early adopters by throwing a half developed piece of hardware out the door, slapping the google android sticker on it.. and then while they profit, they take the good name of Google/Android and drag it through the mud.
Look at the reaction to the original Samsung Galaxy Tab. It was thrown out, with an OS that was not made for a tablet, on hardware not optimized for the design... only to capitalize on the fact that they would be the first out the gate (or at least one of the first). Apple did the same thing, and took their phone OS and blew it up to a larger format. The only reason they succeeded was that they had their system locked down and could ensure that they had a good hardware/software mix. The throngs of iFags everywhere gobble it up because they knew it would be solid enough to satisfy them for a year till the next one comes out and improves on it.
Google is finally learning from Apple in that respect.
By not releasing the sc for HC, they are making sure that they can correct the early issues found with HC in the Xoom, as well as ensure the hardware its installed on meets specific requirements as to not damage their name or their products name. Its not that it wont let it out eventually, but they want to make it as solid as possible before they do. I respect them for that, even if it makes the modding community's job a bit harder in the interim.

Lastly... you can blame the marketing techniques for shady products. Simple people are too excited by shiny products with big words in their advertising, that they get burned by not researching... and those that get burned, cry the most. Those that do their due diligence and research, only blame themselves when they get burned because they overlooked a mistake or failed to prioritize features.

matdev said:
Or does it seem like Honeycomb was rushed out. I get a lot of force closes on my browser and other apps that were installed when I get my Xoom. Does anyone else get that?
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Click to collapse
Can you give us some more details? Like, did you root your xoom or are you experiencing all of these force closes on a clean xoom that you just got 2 days ago? Did you throw an image on there, sideload a bunch of apps, etc....
Off Topic...
Many people do not understand when they try to compare the Xoom to a polished product like the iPad that the iPad OS has been around for a while before the iPad even came to market (iTouch, iPhone) and developers had already enough time to work with iOS so when the iPad was released there was not that much difference besides the new screen real estate that they had to adjust their apps for. When the iPad first came out there were some bugs, apps had that BS 2x until they were optimized for the iPad, etc...The Xoom is a brand new product that is sporting new hardware and a brand new OS that developers have not had the opportunity to work on until just recently so if "you" are not an early adopter then please buy an iPad. And if you are going to complain about the price of the Xoom compared to an iPad 2 then please explain how many 16GB WiFi only models are selling for the same price right now as a Xoom.

The entire android os and their very diverse array of devices is the reason it will fail. Kind of the same reason linux have not been able to penetrate the masses. I been a linux user since 92 and even I get overwhelmed sometimes with the amounts of distros out there. Got it that is what open source is about however. that same premises is what hinders its progress. Andoid is too fragmented with companies rushing out devices to the market without been ready, unfortunately the so call "early adopters" do everyone else a deservice by rushing to buy such devices, to compund this, companies are quick to abandon support for devices after a couple of months leaving us at the mercy of freelance developers (which by the way are great)
Yes the xoom and hc were rushed out to the market on an effort to get a headstart on other devices, by now it has been proven that it did now work as expected for them
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App

neonflx said:
The entire android os and their very diverse array of devices is the reason it will fail. Kind of the same reason linux have not been able to penetrate the masses.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
What? You realize android is the most used smartphone platform worldwide right (ignoring sybian)? If that isn't market penetration I don't know what is.
The API differences from 1.6-2.3 are so minor that application compatibility is really a non issue between operating systems. The only issue is hardware differences really.
Ask the average Joe user what version of android or IOS they are using and they'll ask you "what?". Only the power users ***** and moan about these relatively minor OS updates because they always want the latest thing.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

neonflx said:
The entire android os and their very diverse array of devices is the reason it will fail. Kind of the same reason linux have not been able to penetrate the masses. I been a linux user since 92 and even I get overwhelmed sometimes with the amounts of distros out there. Got it that is what open source is about however. that same premises is what hinders its progress. Andoid is too fragmented with companies rushing out devices to the market without been ready, unfortunately the so call "early adopters" do everyone else a deservice by rushing to buy such devices, to compund this, companies are quick to abandon support for devices after a couple of months leaving us at the mercy of freelance developers (which by the way are great)
Yes the xoom and hc were rushed out to the market on an effort to get a headstart on other devices, by now it has been proven that it did now work as expected for them
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you rooting for Android to fail? You know they do have Windows based phones if you don't like android ones. No one is forcing you to buy anything android. This is not a hate forum so unless you actually own a xoom and have a general question/statement regarding the xoom/honeycomb then why not just go find a "I hate android/linux/capitalism" forum.

neonflx said:
The entire android os and their very diverse array of devices is the reason it will fail. Kind of the same reason linux have not been able to penetrate the masses. I been a linux user since 92 and even I get overwhelmed sometimes with the amounts of distros out there. Got it that is what open source is about however. that same premises is what hinders its progress. Andoid is too fragmented with companies rushing out devices to the market without been ready, unfortunately the so call "early adopters" do everyone else a deservice by rushing to buy such devices, to compund this, companies are quick to abandon support for devices after a couple of months leaving us at the mercy of freelance developers (which by the way are great)
Yes the xoom and hc were rushed out to the market on an effort to get a headstart on other devices, by now it has been proven that it did now work as expected for them
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? You must have been on a deserted island for the last couple years. My Xoom running Honeycomb works just fine. Someone needs to start a thread titled ***** here so you guys can get together share what type of tampons you prefer.

Would you pay for Android OS updates?

We all know the reason updates are slow to roll out is because of money. Why update older phones when you can sell new ones with the latest OS? So would you pay for updates to get them sooner? If so how much would you be willing to shell out?
Trigger 3.3

I'll only pay it if it's pure Google and no more than 20$. Lol
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

No reason to pay for it. Androids kernel is based off Linux. Open source!
Google should force the hardware manufacturers to give them the drivers. Ya, I would say at this point in the game, with the dominance of Android, why not start playing hard ball with manufacturers and carriers? You don't even need the phone manufacturers support, since most of the components (chips, memory, screen, etc) are from various manufacturers, and not really the phone manufacturer. Just get the drivers from component makers directly.
Anyway, if one really had to pay. I think minor updates should be free, and major OS overhauls should have a minor fee, if at all. Personally, I would pay a small fee for major OS upgrades versus free for small updates.

Id be willing to pay a small amount over waiting months.
Trigger 3.3

I think there should be one ultimate phone. You know in the android which gets the fastest updates, oh wait isn't that a nexus? :O
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

You start paying for this sort of thing and then they send out the dogs. Bad idea. I can't think of any companies that have done this but I'm sure there are major ones.
And. If the main os was optimized for users by the dev team and people that haven't bought the update them can be in trouble for stealing. Yeah they might try it but the push against would be stronger. And pirating phone stuff would be HUGE. Almost as big as movie or game s are.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

helllllllll no.

Only if its straitup aosp. And if we can get the God d*mn update the day Google released it. You know like 2.3 was realeased in December and some company's *cough*HTC*cough* didn't release it till today. And without new sense... smh -_-
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

GreggoryD502 said:
We all know the reason updates are slow to roll out is because of money. Why update older phones when you can sell new ones with the latest OS? So would you pay for updates to get them sooner? If so how much would you be willing to shell out?
Trigger 3.3
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Click to collapse
To answer. I wouldn't pay a dime. A device should work satisfactorily as advertised. If it does not then I choose to take matters into my own hands, either by getting another device or indulging in a community like this one. I just don't think it's as simple as your implying.
Money is a motivator for manufacturers and carriers, but only in the sense of how it impacts meeting deadlines and release schedules. No amount of theoretical payola from end users is going to change this. End users and their perceptions do matter, even to manufacturers. But we're kidding ourselves if we think that our goals here in a place like XDA represent anything remotely close to the majority. They do not.
Android brings an entirely different sort of OS ecosystem to the table than consumers have been accustomed to, and more importantly entirely different than what carriers and manufacturers are accustomed to.
Much of what we have seen in the past few years with regards slow or nonexistent updates has been due to how manufacturers initially approached Android as simply a way to stave off significant R&D. Manufacturers are doing better in this regard as of late, because the ecosystem as a whole is maturing. The market is now lucrative and extensive, but competition is rife.
It is these competitive forces AND ONLY THESE that will improve the situation. Indeed it can be readily argued that this above all else is what has made such update issues ameliorate themselves. The most jaded among us can certainly realize things are much better now for Android as a whole than they were a year ago. Orders of magnitude so!!
Even so, realize that manufacturers will only do what they deem is in their interests when developing for their products. No matter how capable the hardware, or how "open" the infrastructure, manufacturers are in this for profit (as well they should be). Many will realize that supporting existing hardware is in their best interest, but as we've seen in similar scenarios in the PC universe, they will do this to varying degrees and for their own reasons. Some will do better than others and perhaps some of that will play out well with end users and gain them loyal customers. It's as likely that customers will simply go elsewhere because they're enticed to do so. This simply isn't as simple a problem as it was when this whole Android sleighride started anymore.
Communities like XDA have a role to play, and the developers and their efforts made here recontribute to everyone involved. But lets not kid ourselves. The performance of most devices as they ship is, to varying degrees, satisfactory. Most users are not zealots (and lets be frank, most XDA people *ARE*), and many of the concerns expressed here are not only unrealistic they are pointless. It is difficult enough to come up with a concrete list of precisely why 2.3 is better than 2.2, or 2.1 amongst ourselves as it is. To most end users perception (and thus most manufacturers) these distinctions are trivial and meaningless.
XDA is a hacker's maven. An important one, and a valuable one to those of us who participate here. But Android itself is no longer *just* a hacker's wet dream. It's a commercial juggernaut of a platform that is living and thriving quite nicely with or without us as this stage.

I would make a donation to the person who cracks it so people can use it for free.

doug2060 said:
I would make a donation to the person who cracks it so people can use it for free.
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... Piracy?
I LIKE IT.

I will pay for it. Not to Samsung or t-mobile. I have $20 saved for the first developer who gets gingerbread working stable on our phone.

It's like asking "Would you spend money to buy linux?" Noooo!

HyprGeek said:
It's like asking "Would you spend money to buy linux?" Noooo!
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You do realize not all Linux distros are free right?

I wouldn't.

pvspencer22 said:
You do realize not all Linux distros are free right?
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yeah but how many go for the paid instead of free?