With Swype now officially onboard with the latest Sense update, are Swype apks still going to be considered illegal? I could see why trading apks from a closed beta would be considered illegal, but now that Swype is natively supported on the Evo, it would make sense (pun!) that the ban on apks be lifted.
I say this mostly because I'm on CM6.1 and I'd like to stay away from Sense if possible, but also because someone might as well have asked.
Sure, I'm sure they have a licensing agreement in place with Sprint. Read = $$$
But in this case it would be Sprint sending the C&D's, so we have to see if they will do that (I can't remember them doing that in the past.)
TheMagicalSock said:
With Swype now officially onboard with the latest Sense update, are Swype apks still going to be considered illegal? I could see why trading apks from a closed beta would be considered illegal, but now that Swype is natively supported on the Evo, it would make sense (pun!) that the ban on apks be lifted.
I say this mostly because I'm on CM6.1 and I'd like to stay away from Sense if possible, but also because someone might as well have asked.
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I'm sure this hasn't changed.
If CS5 came preloaded on my laptop, would it be okay to distribute it on a open forum? For one, it'd be illegal to distribute, period, but also anyone could come in and download regardless of whether they own that particular laptop or not.
I disagree with your comparison. Adobe products are incredibly complex software suites that cost hundreds of dollars. Swype is a keyboard that has been freely distributed to members of a beta for several months. If CS5 came preloaded on a computer, you would have one key that would be pointless to distribute anyway. Since there's no licensing or money involved with the way Evo users have suddenly acquired Swype, would that change the situation a bit?
I don't want to play dumb and say your comparison made no sense, because I completely see what you meant, but it seems to me that this is a different situation. However, you may very well be right.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
While openly posting the apk will still probably be frowned on, developers will probably be allowed to include the version released with this update in their roms. At least I see no reason a rom based off of the 3.70.* sprint release wouldn't be allowed to keep the software that was packaged with it.
Sent from my HTC SuperSonic 4G using the XDA app.
TheMagicalSock said:
I disagree with your comparison. Adobe products are incredibly complex software suites that cost hundreds of dollars. Swype is a keyboard that has been freely distributed to members of a beta for several months. If CS5 came preloaded on a computer, you would have one key that would be pointless to distribute anyway. Since there's no licensing or money involved with the way Evo users have suddenly acquired Swype, would that change the situation a bit?
I don't want to play dumb and say your comparison made no sense, because I completely see what you meant, but it seems to me that this is a different situation. However, you may very well be right.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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That's just not gonna fly. Copyright infringement is copyright infringement regardless of scale. Sprint paid a fee to distribute it, you did not. Therefore you cannot distribute it.
It actually is an apples-to-apples comparison. Take a Microsoft product beta like Office 2010. Clearly warez, just like the Swype beta. Office suite or keyboard is irrelevant.
i think that he's just assuming that since we freely spread literally every other .apk that comes on our phone, that this shouldn't be any different. i honestly dont see why we wouldn't be able to share this now.
Sense UI is licensed and it also comes on our phone, you dont hear any problem about us spreading that in most of the roms on here. if it comes on the phone, we should be allow to install it on our phone. the only reason i could see the mods not wanting to let is is due to request strait from swype inc. we'll have to hear from a mod. does the swype that it comes with include a voice key? just curious.
Sprint is giving anyone who has an Evo active on their service a copy of Swype. (By bundling it in the update) As long as it is only traded among people who have Evos active on Sprint service I think it would be very hard to make a case for copyright infringement when everyone doing the "infringing" has access to a legit licensed copy of the file in question.
I would ask a MOD that question. I think it's a question that they would ACTUALLY be able to answer instead of beating around the bush.
Well Technically if your on CM6 your not supposed to be using any google app whatsoever thats why CM doesnt include them in is work because of the C&D letter he got from Google. So I would assume if your trying to do it the right way with Swype then if they havent licensed CM to put it on his Roms, I wouldnt do it, I would flash to a Sense based rom using ADW or Launcher pro to use Swype.
Mactagonist said:
Sprint is giving anyone who has an Evo active on their service a copy of Swype. (By bundling it in the update) As long as it is only traded among people who have Evos active on Sprint service I think it would be very hard to make a case for copyright infringement when everyone doing the "infringing" has access to a legit licensed copy of the file in question.
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Click to collapse
That's a good case to be made as well. It's all about Sprint coming down on us now instead of the creators of Swype. And I haven't seen Sprint do that, for example with the VVM apk's floating around.
In theory, it's still wrong but in practice I think we're safe.
gqstatus0685 said:
I would ask a MOD that question. I think it's a question that they would ACTUALLY be able to answer instead of beating around the bush.
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Click to collapse
Mods don't necessarily know one way or the other. If they want to err on the side of caution, they will say no. On the other hand, other forums' mods don't care and will ask for a C&D order before taking anything down.
As seen on the XDA Frontpage.
What this means, in essence, is that the EVO joins the list of devices that are approved to have Swype included in roms. Still, our stance on Swype is the same as before. Distribution of Swype by any other means than roms for OEM licensed devices is prohibited on xda-developers.
So, find your favorite rom and see if has been blessed with this keyboard already
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Click to collapse
In case you can't read, Swype can be included in ROMS. It is against the rules to post just the .APK.
Ahh, there we go. An answer. Anyway, I don't think my reasoning is all that far-fetched. As some other people have said, it's not quite as simple as an Office 2010 beta or an Adobe product; we hand out apks on deodexed ROMs like candy on this forum (someone mentioned Sense-based apks - even Sprint apps like Visual Voicemail are questionable).
Anyway, I thought it would be a good point of discussion. I think the Evo's support for Swype will mean far less policing when it comes to Swype apks, at least here on the Evo forum.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
TheMagicalSock said:
Anyway, I thought it would be a good point of discussion. I think the Evo's support for Swype will mean far less policing when it comes to Swype apks, at least here on the Evo forum.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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Yeah, I think it will be interesting to see. Especially seeing that an apk was posted yesterday and the post a Mod made on the homepage was today. I think it is really if someone reports it or if a Mod just happens to roll across it.
Related
Thought this was insane!
"sprint Android update! Upgrades to 2.1 for Hero/Moment now expected early 2Q10. Currently working through options for upgrades w/ HTC and Samsung. "
Sorry for another thread, but the others are so long...
So we are looking at April or May.. nice althought most probably by that time we'll be sick of having it for a couple of months already.
I read that. Meh, What they are saying is, "HTC, Samsung : DO we have all of the bugs patched" and HTC and Samsung going...****....did we patch asroot2? Haha.
They can patch whatever they want, Ill be waiting for the DEVs here to make custom ROMs based on that update.
Kcarpenter said:
Thought this was insane!
"sprint Android update! Upgrades to 2.1 for Hero/Moment now expected early 2Q10. Currently working through options for upgrades w/ HTC and Samsung. "
Sorry for another thread, but the others are so long...
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Click to collapse
This may be obvious, but what is Sprints Official Twitter username? I would like to follow them.
Darkshneider said:
They can patch whatever they want, Ill be waiting for the DEVs here to make custom ROMs based on that update.
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+1 Same here
rockcrawler said:
This may be obvious, but what is Sprints Official Twitter username? I would like to follow them.
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@Sprint
Kcarpenter got schooled by @Sprint!
Originally Posted by twitter.com/sprint
@Kcarpenter5407 Have always said 1H2010, now we're saying early Q2.
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1H2010 is business-speak for 2Q2010, but with false optimism for 1Q2010. Coming from Sprint's mouth, 1H2010 probably means 3Q2010. They're not known for making their release deadlines.
cmccracken said:
Kcarpenter got schooled by @Sprint!
1H2010 is business-speak for 2Q2010, but with false optimism for 1Q2010. Coming from Sprint's mouth, 1H2010 probably means 3Q2010. They're not known for making their release deadlines.
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ROFL i hadn't checked back! That is true, they did say 1H.
EDIT:
Who knew they actually read that crap.
cmccracken said:
@Sprint
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I knew I was going to feel special, but I asked anyway LOL
I wonder if they are going to be updating due to the fact that the Legend and Desire are both going to be release early next quarter? Hence, a new version of Sense will be on the market and they won't be able to use the 'it's not ready' yet excuse anymore.
if i were sprint, i would be PISSED after looking at forums like this. Not because people are modding the devices but because ppl who are doing this on their free time for next to nothing with none of the resources that the htc/sprint guys have are almost finished making this completely ready and stable, meanwhile the people they are PAYING to do this still arent done, with all the resources and source code in the world to work with
Street_Knowledge said:
if i were sprint, i would be PISSED after looking at forums like this. Not because people are modding the devices but because ppl who are doing this on their free time for next to nothing with none of the resources that the htc/sprint guys have are almost finished making this completely ready and stable, meanwhile the people they are PAYING to do this still arent done, with all the resources and source code in the world to work with
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Click to collapse
No offense to the devs here, but what they do is really not in any way similar or comparable to what the HTC devs are doing.
Really? I thought the only difference was that guys at HTC have official kernels and the closed source part of the phone...
The "closed source part of the phone" is the vast majority of the code running on it, including most bundled apps and Sense UI. The bundled Google apps are also closed-source and non-distributable (and the new versions rock).
Exactly, DEVs over here still tinker with what they have and make amazing things with so little.
I'd imagine there's an UNGODLY big difference from editing code till it works or looks differently, icons, colors, bitmaps... and creating your own functioning code from scratch. This is what sprint is paying htc for.
I've been able to hack together programs to work a certain way I wanted, but if you told me... i want a program to do a new function... I would absolutely give the deer in the headlights look.
I'd imagine the majority of the DEV's here are able to fill the first type very nicely, only a select few are able to fill the second type, or are willing to code from scratch for free in their free time.
johnsongrantr said:
I'd imagine there's an UNGODLY big difference from editing code till it works or looks differently, icons, colors, bitmaps... and creating your own functioning code from scratch. This is what sprint is paying htc for.
I've been able to hack together programs to work a certain way I wanted, but if you told me... i want a program to do a new function... I would absolutely give the deer in the headlights look.
I'd imagine the majority of the DEV's here are able to fill the first type very nicely, only a select few are able to fill the second type, or are willing to code from scratch for free in their free time.
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Click to collapse
Sometimes writing from scratch is much easier that editing/fixing someone else's F*^ed code.
[rant]I worked as a Team lead and the company basically replaced most of my team with offshore (H1B's). I got stuck trying to support poorly written code. In my experience one good developer that writes well-documented code and properly tests his code is worth about 15-20 Offshore developers when you start factoring in bug fixing, code management, and support. The company saved $30,000 for each developer they replaced, but then had to hire 3 times the amount of personnel for support.
[/rant]
Can anyone contest to the quality of htc's kernel source? is it poorly commented and hacky? My guess it would be pretty professional looking, could and probally am wrong, seeing how it's taking some time to twist the kernel into a fully functioning 2.1.
I haven't dove into htc's code just look around yet, I did with the palm pre a bit and saw some of their almost comical comments they made on some of their internal apps, very neatly commented just some of the stuff they said was kinda comical (talking bout sections of their code being rubish but working.. noting to clean it up later)... I liked the general mood the palm dev's had at the time of their first release (rushed but focused it seemed)
johnsongrantr said:
Can anyone contest to the quality of htc's kernel source? is it poorly commented and hacky? My guess it would be pretty professional looking, could and probally am wrong, seeing how it's taking some time to twist the kernel into a fully functioning 2.1.
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Click to collapse
see thats the thing, they have already shown off several phones running sense and 2.1
whats the holdup here?
Ok so lucky for me I got swype before xda removed the link.....bit why did they?
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Maybe because it's illegal ??
The company who wrote swype has decided to make it not available to download unless through them. So XDA is following the wishes of the company.
Swype is currently in a closed beta and not available to the public, that's why.
Stuart.upton666 said:
hahaha oh well ...
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Are you just trying to get banned? lol
Tostino said:
Are you just trying to get banned? lol
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Let's hope, his contributions are... limited...
How the hell is it a closed beta if all MyTouch 3G 1.2 owners have it by default?
catzilla said:
How the hell is it a closed beta if all MyTouch 3G 1.2 owners have it by default?
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Click to collapse
Swype does oem distribution only currently
Speaking as a developer, let me see if I can try to clear some of the confusion that seems to be going on.
Swype is an application made from a team of developers. They have several contracts and licenses with various mobile carriers or more specifically the device makers themselves. They make money from these types of licenses. Swype has no ads, and its income model is really focused around licenses.
So lets say that you got Swype on your MyTouch 3g when you bought the phone. The carrier/phone maker has paid the makers of Swype for the application for your phone. While Swype is still in beta for the most part, they have specific phones which they've dedicated their time to ensure the coding is correct and the application is working as intended. (They cannot guarantee the same across the other devices. Which is why its still in beta.)
The companies which hold contracts with the makers of Swype to provide this wonderful software to them, expect some exclusivity. If Swype is being pirated everywhere, some people believe the carriers/phone makers will be less attracted to Swype, since they can't use the application itself to help pivot some of the marketing against competitors. Simply, if Swype continues being pirated, it wouldn't surprise me to see that the developers spend more time on anti-pirate measures instead of making the application better. Why would we want to do this to developers who are providing a kick ass application?
In the end, it's a endless cycle of people pirating the application thinking they are doing the best for people, but sadly, in this case, it's only negatively impacting the people who are providing the software we all enjoy. Just wait a little bit longer until the developer releases the application to the general public, or until you make the beta https://beta.swype.com/android/create/
TL;DR
Swype is a kick ass application that shouldn't be pirated if we want it to continue growing into something amazing.
I love Swype, but I would much rather support the developers then see this project be stifled by people who seem clueless to the consequences around their actions.
archangelugp said:
Speaking as a developer, let me see if I can try to clear some of the confusion that seems to be going on.
Swype is an application made from a team of developers. They have several contracts and licenses with various mobile carriers or more specifically the device makers themselves. They make money from these types of licenses. Swype has no ads, and its income model is really focused around licenses.
So lets say that you got Swype on your MyTouch 3g when you bought the phone. The carrier/phone maker has paid the makers of Swype for the application for your phone. While Swype is still in beta for the most part, they have specific phones which they've dedicated their time to ensure the coding is correct and the application is working as intended. (They cannot guarantee the same across the other devices. Which is why its still in beta.)
The companies which hold contracts with the makers of Swype to provide this wonderful software to them, expect some exclusivity. If Swype is being pirated everywhere, some people believe the carriers/phone makers will be less attracted to Swype, since they can't use the application itself to help pivot some of the marketing against competitors. Simply, if Swype continues being pirated, it wouldn't surprise me to see that the developers spend more time on anti-pirate measures instead of making the application better. Why would we want to do this to developers who are providing a kick ass application?
In the end, it's a endless cycle of people pirating the application thinking they are doing the best for people, but sadly, in this case, it's only negatively impacting the people who are providing the software we all enjoy. Just wait a little bit longer until the developer releases the application to the general public, or until you make the beta https://beta.swype.com/android/create/
TL;DR
Swype is a kick ass application that shouldn't be pirated if we want it to continue growing into something amazing.
I love Swype, but I would much rather support the developers then see this project be stifled by people who seem clueless to the consequences around their actions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not sell it on the Android Market?
Paul22000 said:
Why not sell it on the Android Market?
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Click to collapse
archangelugp said:
The companies which hold contracts with the makers of Swype...expect some exclusivity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is basically saying the companies are just a little greedy and anti-competitive, and the makers of Swype just don't have the time and resources at the moment to dedicate to a public release on the Market. Or, something in the contract that Swype has signed with these companies prevents them from creating a third-party installer for phones that don't come with Swype.
Either way, Swype being preinstalled on devices works out to being much more profitable than a Market release, because each sale of a phone also counts as a sale for Swype, even if the users don't use it. With a release on the Market, every user that doesn't want to use Swype ends up as a lost sale for Swype, and on top of that the developers have to spend more time ensuring that the software works on multiple phones. By just focusing on being OEM software on a few really popular phones, it's the most profitable strategy for the least amount of work.
So basically "beta" is a euphemism for "will never ever come to any phone unless the OEM specifically paid us to put it on the phone (meaning absolutely never on the Nexus One)".
Great.
Paul22000 said:
So basically "beta" is a euphemism for "will never ever come to any phone unless the OEM specifically paid us to put it on the phone (meaning absolutely never on the Nexus One)".
Great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://swype.uservoice.com/forums/17482-swype-general-forum/suggestions/546121-swype-android-market?ref=title
Beta is meant for testing and isn't ready to be unleashed into the wild on unsupported devices. It's not even production yet and everyone is expecting it to be on the market and be available to anyone and everyone.
It's better to have a user have a pleasant experience on a application then to even have 1 force close. You put something on the market and lets say you don't support DroidX yet. Guess what happens, that user gets a FC and then complains on the market that the application is crap. Anyone that reads those comments to weigh out if they want to buy it or not will then look more negatively towards that application, even if they don't own a DroidX.
Let's just take it as it is. Some people are screaming that they should have support over all the devices, yet want to pirate it... sounds like some backwards logic to me, and that's what at least a lot of the members on XDA seem to want to do.
TL;DR
They are beta testing the Nexus One Swype Application. They haven't announced a release date, but I'm sure its on the horizon sometime, if they are testing it.
Respect the developers, if they don't want it to be release yet, respect that.
I'm in the beta and it works perfectly fine. No FCs here.
Paul22000 said:
I'm in the beta and it works perfectly fine. No FCs here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
However, flashing from different roms and reinstalling swype resulted in " you've used your allotment of installments" so, I picked up a version from the ICD forms. Never had one force close either. After five installs they shut you down, no more Swype. They need to work it out for those of us in beta to install as much as we want on our rooted Nexus.
so will there be a final release?
I'm in the beta program, and it's an awesome product.
That said, having to delete and re-download and then re-install after every time I swap roms (or even do a nandroid restore to one where it previously worked fine) is getting really really old. I'm sure it's probably some feeble attempt at a copy protection scheme, but it's making me want to chuck my beta download and find myself a pirated copy just for the lack of headache.
Paul22000 said:
I'm in the beta and it works perfectly fine. No FCs here.
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Click to collapse
I'm in the beta and it doesn't work perfectly fine.
Ever tried using it with Connect Bot? Nope? Get back to me after you do.
There are still issues for the Swype team to work out, which is why it is still Beta.
In addition to Paul22000 comments, a take-down request was received to remove swype as this was a violation of the BETA terms of agreement.
If a member is caught distributing swype via PM, their account will be permanently suspended.
Thread closed.
Just as the title stated Gizmodo has an article on how g2 revert to stock after reboot. This makes me feel better about owning a vibrant because of samsung lackluster support. Anyway, the point of this thread is about the " root kit" and your thought, discussion, etc
I personally think this is a low blow on htc part, especially looking at their track record with android.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Edit: now I have access to a computer here's the link to article (which summarize and link back what is already here at G2 forum, haha)
http://gizmodo.com/5656921/t+mobiles-g2-rootkit-will-reinstall-stock-android-after-a-jailbreak
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Click to collapse
they apparently can't even remove bloatware as it reinstalls upon reboot
Unfortunately locking down android phones is an inevitability. As more and more people transition their daily net use to smartphones so will the purveyors of malware. Making it more difficult to root is a necessary evil. The g2 has a backdoor otherwise there'd be no way to ota updates. It will be discovered. Though it might take more time than the couple of days the phone has been available. Relax
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
masterotaku said:
Unfortunately locking down android phones is an inevitability. As more and more people transition their daily net use to smartphones so will the purveyors of malware. Making it more difficult to root is a necessary evil. The g2 has a backdoor otherwise there'd be no way to ota updates. It will be discovered. Though it might take more time than the couple of days the phone has been available. Relax
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agreed that the developers here will have no problem figuring out the backdoor as they are awesome. However, one can not ignore the fact that HTC which is known to promote customization, decided to install this type of "rootkit". Malware is inevitable which is why Google needs to step up their game, being "OPEN" does not mean no intervention of any sort. Simply looking through the app for malware while not irrationally rejecting App would bring a much needed safety net.
Makes me wonder if it is T-Mobile who requested the system to be put in place.
Its more accurate to say that HTC has been in the game longer with popular android handsets than deliberately having been more open than others. It might seem a tad ironic given the level of impatience with Samsung over updates and whatnot but they have been far more open with the galaxy s than pretty much any other manufacturer and any other phone....HTC included...
If its any consolation the non Tmobile version of this phone seems to have the same restrictions.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
IF this is true, and I step back from being a fan of Android, it actually makes sense.
With Android, as with any consumer electronic product, "power-users" are a small percentage of total users. Applying this truth to Android, I think you can extrapolate out that manufacturers, don't want power-users causing all kinds of support nightmares (like bricking their phones and returning them as defective), so they start increase the effort required to do power-user type things.
I prefer to look at it in practical terms as the manufacturers saying, "If you want to do developer type things, you need to get developer type hardware."
It sux because the developer device won't ever be able to "keep up with the Joneses" as far as coolness factor. However, if you just reference all of the posts of people doing stuff the manufacturer did not intend for them to do, then claiming their phone was defective, and getting a new one, the manufacturers are almost forced into doing stuff like this.
Now you mentioned it, it was really easy to root and modify the phone compare to other phones "traditional" methods.
It is understandable of why people (myself included) were anxious of Samsung as they have horrible update history compare to HTC or Motorola in recent times. If Samsung can push out their update in a more timely manner, I wouldn't put it pass myself to say that Galaxy S is the best android phone on the market.
Perhaps the rollback is due to internal bugs similar to the storage issues G2 is having as well which is possible considered that a messaged up storage would not keep the changes made.
i'm sure this rootkit won't be a problem for long.
funeralthirst said:
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7089/whatrootkit.jpg
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the what rootkit image was a joke per chris.
the problem with this is that there was recently a ruling that jailbreaking your device is legal - this move is in direct violation to the DCMA ruling.
byt3b0mb said:
the what rootkit image was a joke per chris.
the problem with this is that there was recently a ruling that jailbreaking your device is legal - this move is in direct violation to the DCMA ruling.
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i know it was a joke, which is why i took down the link. but it was funny.
this isn't a violation, though. the act of jailbreaking/rooting a phone is legal, but that doesn't mean manufacturers can't try and restrict/prevent people from doing it.
devcurious said:
IF this is true, and I step back from being a fan of Android, it actually makes sense.
With Android, as with any consumer electronic product, "power-users" are a small percentage of total users. Applying this truth to Android, I think you can extrapolate out that manufacturers, don't want power-users causing all kinds of support nightmares (like bricking their phones and returning them as defective), so they start increase the effort required to do power-user type things.
I prefer to look at it in practical terms as the manufacturers saying, "If you want to do developer type things, you need to get developer type hardware."
It sux because the developer device won't ever be able to "keep up with the Joneses" as far as coolness factor. However, if you just reference all of the posts of people doing stuff the manufacturer did not intend for them to do, then claiming their phone was defective, and getting a new one, the manufacturers are almost forced into doing stuff like this.
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Click to collapse
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that HTC didn't want it, but T-Mobile did. They removed tethering from the 2.2 build. They know that the first thing that rooters do is install tethering software to their Android devices. So yeah, TMO prolly asked HTC to block root so that people wouldn't be tethering all the time.
On 7.2 devices, that wasn't a big issue, but the G2 can theoretically get up to twice as fast as our Vibrants, and with TMO only using 10mhz or so for their HSPA+ deployments, they're probably concerned with too much tethering hurting network performance.
I love how the arguments on that website keep pointing to how its going to ruin android and how android is open source. Last time I checked Android is an operating system not hardware. Either T-mobile locked it or HTC. I'm going to bet like everybody else that its T-Mobiles doing.
The only thing its going to do honestly is piss off future buyers and they will either avoid that phone or wait for it to be rooted. When the G1 came out I waited until it was rooted then I bought. Vibrant I waited until it was confrimed to be rooted. Of course that was nearly before it hit the market so I bought nearly the day it was available.
So T-Mobile I hope you don't mind loosing sales on that model because its going to happen. I was -| |- close to buying that for my wife. I guess now its not going to happen and if she wants something else first then well you lost her business.
if assholes wouldn't tether 5+ gigs (or way way more) a month then come to the forums bragging about it....we might not have this issue
but people want to abuse it and use tethering for ****ing torrents
morons
But what a boneheaded move. They must have known that many people wanted the G2 as a successor to the N1 as a dev phone.
Why is this in the vibrant section, this has nothing to do with the vibrant
The cake is a lie!
Maybe this is why the G2 folks won't see the full 4G ram that's becasue HTC used part of it to store the firmware to be rewrite when it detects an modification to the phone. Now, who else is dumping the vibrant for the G2?
im sure the devs will figure out a way around this pretty quick lol
PaiPiePia said:
Malware is inevitable which is why Google needs to step up their game, being "OPEN" does not mean no intervention of any sort. Simply looking through the app for malware while not irrationally rejecting App would bring a much needed safety net.
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And what is malware? Any app that reads your SMS? Well, Handcent needs to do that.
Any app that can dial? Google Maps can do that (not to mention the many Dialer replacements).
Any app that requests GPS? Well, if it's not in /system & your GPS is turned off, it can't turn it back on & if you want that app to remain free, the advertiser wants to target market.
Any app that sends your data someplace? Then just about everything on the phone is useless.
How can you look through the app & determine what is malware? Inspect the sourcecode manually? Some apps take nearly a year to get approved for the iDevices. Devs would abandon the Android Market if that started happening pretty quickly. The iDevices have a proven $ turnaround while Android has a pretty hefty piracy rate & others that just don't want to pay for any app because they shouldn't have to because the OS is open and free and so should the apps be.
byt3b0mb said:
the problem with this is that there was recently a ruling that jailbreaking your device is legal - this move is in direct violation to the DCMA ruling.
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Click to collapse
Just because it is legal for you to do it doesn't mean it is illegal for the manufacturer to make it as hard on you as possible.
trashcan said:
Maybe this is why the G2 folks won't see the full 4G ram that's becasue HTC used part of it to store the firmware to be rewrite when it detects an modification to the phone. Now, who else is dumping the vibrant for the G2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would make complete sense since they effectively need to keep a backup of the OS on hand in case you delete something....with most phones if you delete it, it's gone, you can't factory format back to stock (without a proper backup).
Since this was pretty much advertised as an upgrade to the G1 (hence the name and it coming out just about 2 years later), and most G1 owners were basically tech savvy people, this can't be good for HTC or TMO. This phone more than most others (excepting the N1) is the phone that the people who WANT root would be upgrading to (except for those of us that already swapped to the Vibrant).
Oops 10chars
HTC rocks!!!!!!!
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2011/tc20110324_269784.htm
Google says it will delay the distribution of its newest Android source code, dubbed Honeycomb, at least for the foreseeable future. The search giant says the software, which is tailored specifically for tablet computers that compete against Apple's iPad, is not yet ready to be altered by outside programmers and customized for other devices, such as phones.
almostinsane said:
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2011/tc20110324_269784.htm
Google says it will delay the distribution of its newest Android source code, dubbed Honeycomb, at least for the foreseeable future. The search giant says the software, which is tailored specifically for tablet computers that compete against Apple's iPad, is not yet ready to be altered by outside programmers and customized for other devices, such as phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More beta BS. I'll sell you a car but we only completed the frame.
Yup - Its why I just sent my Xoom back to Moto.
Perhaps it's time to change your ID to "completelyInsane".
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_RTFM_ said:
Perhaps it's time to change your ID to "completelyInsane".
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMAO!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
i dont understand what will make it "ready" if they are planning on eventually releasing it what will keep it from being ported to phones then. If its a matter of incompleteness then what's changed since Cupcake which everyone agrees was more .8 than 1.0. Releasing it to dev's will allow for bugfixes and tweaks to get merged upstream.
It will leak eventually. It always does...
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
Yea I dont understand google some times. I understand the the OS isnt ready, but if it really is that bad and that unstable then why even put it on a tablet. And really what harm does it do the put out the code, so people will port it to other devices, you can keep doing what you will but make lots of devs happy.
They say they're worried about a poor user experience. Who do they think these users are? "I he4rd on the int3webz I can haz h0neycombz on my G1?" I mean we already know that the percentage of people running custom Roms, while large for what it is, is not the bulk of people using Android. And we know that what we're doing may not be the smoothest experience. The SDK has already been ported to pretty much everything, and they're worried about the actual 3.0 being a poor experience? Come on Google, what's this really about?
This wasn't the best source to quote from. Google said they don't want developers trying to port it to phones yet since they can't guarantee a good user experience on phones. They're afraid XDA is going to port it, people try to run it on their phones and then say how crappy it runs on a phone even though that's not what it was designed for. You know it would happen, and word would spread that it sucks on phones and yada yada it doesn't get a fair chance.
Sent via EVO
As much of a ROM guy as I am, I admit this makes sense from a business stand point. Google makes $ from licensing and distribution (with regards to Android). The hacker communities do not make up said market for the most part.
The worst thing companies combat these days is negative publicity.
I owned an iPhone, two iterations, the 3G and the original. Why did my mother never purchase one, nor my sister? Simply because of how locked down they are due to MY advice. Were they ever going to buy said device due to their hackability? Hell no. But because I said it was sh**** that Apple locks their stuff down so much, they declined to buy said hardware.
Releasing the software for Google could have a lot of negative effects on a BRAND NEW operating system for a BRAND NEW market for Google. If people are throwing this on phones, you search it out on the internet, and everything is Honeycomb this sucks, and honeycomb that sucks, due to people using it on phones, most people who try to do basic research, like my mother, or sister,
will only see "THIS SUCKS".
Just my 2c, but I can see their stand point. Until they can find a way to keep it off the phones, I see this as an issue for google.
~m
familiarstranger said:
They say they're worried about a poor user experience. Who do they think these users are? "I he4rd on the int3webz I can haz h0neycombz on my G1?" I mean we already know that the percentage of people running custom Roms, while large for what it is, is not the bulk of people using Android. And we know that what we're doing may not be the smoothest experience. The SDK has already been ported to pretty much everything, and they're worried about the actual 3.0 being a poor experience? Come on Google, what's this really about?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhmm, are we reading the same forum? Where people knowingly purchased a device that didn't have flash or lte or an ad card working at launch but are still *****ing and whining and returning their xoom regardless? What I mean is, those same people will install Honeycomb and complain that google released a lousy product.
Sent via EVO
thegeektern said:
I understand the the OS isnt ready, but if it really is that bad and that unstable then why even put it on a tablet. And really what harm does it do the put out the code, so people will port it to other devices, you can keep doing what you will but make lots of devs happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My understanding of that article is that Google doesn't feel its ready for phones. It's not that its not ready for tablets. They understand that they won't be able to stop people from using HC on phones, but trying to stave off the inevitable...
this HC thing looks like crap.... oh.. on my phone. In the end.. we are talking about a company here.. a company that needs to keep it's image.. and products.. (or software as you may call it).. as good as possible.
I don't think it's the best move Google could have made, but I think Google should do things in it's best interest to keep itself as a company in good standing. Long and short of it.. if things go south for google.. we'll all be unhappy. Just getting things out for the sake of allowing devs to play doesn't mean its the most sound decision for the company making it.
Yes, I know.. it's 'open source', but it is still a work-product. I think it's also entirely likely this is just a marketing ploy to say 'we told you so'.. and then it will get leaked and everything will go back to normal. But I still think people often forget that this is still a company that has to keep itself together to survive.
EDIT: So many things get written in the same time when you respond to a post! It seems as though I am joining the choir of.. this isn't so bad.
Sirchuk said:
This wasn't the best source to quote from. Google said they don't want developers trying to port it to phones yet since they can't guarantee a good user experience on phones. They're afraid XDA is going to port it, people try to run it on their phones and then say how crappy it runs on a phone even though that's not what it was designed for. You know it would happen, and word would spread that it sucks on phones and yada yada it doesn't get a fair chance.
Sent via EVO
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well that hasn't stopped devs on xda porting it already - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=978939
Darn you almostinsane, I was just about to post this but you beat me to it!
Its really unfortunate that Google is doing this, whatever happened to a completely open source OS? In my honest opinion I think they should release it to the public and let the various devs have at it and see what can be improved and take those improvements into consideration for the next release of Android. If the OS was only meant for tablets who is to say that x developer can port it to a handheld flawlessly? It would be a HUGE leap ahead for us and for big ol' G.
Either way, it'll happen with or without Google releasing the source as our one dev spacemoose1 has shown us with making a near perfect port to the Samsung tab of honeycomb.
Stinks money is such an issue, Google doesn't really need anymore haha.
Done with my rant now
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Another business reason for this decision: Google may not have programmed Honeycomb well.
An obvious(?) repercussion for grimy source code going public is more bashing of Honeycomb's alleged "beta-ness". The more app developers that use the ...poisonous open-source code, the more ...poisoned apps there will be.
Or, they want to curb full-blown Honeycomb from appearing on devices other than the Xoom for just a little longer.
you're right. I just hate that its true. Your sig shows you remember the G1 days when we were all just so happy about what our phone COULD do. It's gotten a lot whinnier around here since then.
Sirchuk said:
Uhmm, are we reading the same forum? Where people knowingly purchased a device that didn't have flash or lte or an ad card working at launch but are still *****ing and whining and returning their xoom regardless? What I mean is, those same people will install Honeycomb and complain that google released a lousy product.
Sent via EVO
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a ROM enthusiast; yea this sucks. Business it's understandable; but as the former it doesn't make me happy.
My NC sorely needs a aosp honeycomb, HC's tablet interface is superior to even CM7 on it.
Honestly though it's a lot of speculation here on why, but it really just sounds like an excuse (Bad one) to quiet the devs while really being a straight business decision.
How is not releasing honeycomb aosp right away not being open? Would you like all your roms without SD card support right now? Honeycomb is most likely stable enough for normal use for the average consumer and Google had to make footprint in the tablet industry before ipad2 was announced. Things were obviously rushed so i rather wait for them get everything situated. I think this unfortunate news but I'm not gonna cry foul when its something that's probably for the better. Google has proven with each iteration of android they have released source so just be patient
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
almostinsane said:
Yup - Its why I just sent my Xoom back to Moto.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't understand the logic here. What alternative are you seeking? Take it back for the Galaxy 10.1? It runs the same OS. Take it back for an iPad? It runs a closed OS.
The AOSP release is delayed ... maybe. Why would you return your Xoom because of this?
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA Premium App
Things are starting to make sense, in a very bad sort of way.
**snip **
Google has also tried to hold up the release of Verizon (VZ) Android devices that make use of Microsoft's (MSFT) rival Bing search engine, according to two people familiar with the discussions.
**snip**
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_15/b4223041200216.htm
Scrappy1 said:
Things are starting to make sense, in a very bad sort of way.
**snip **
Google has also tried to hold up the release of Verizon (VZ) Android devices that make use of Microsoft's (MSFT) rival Bing search engine, according to two people familiar with the discussions.
**snip**
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_15/b4223041200216.htm
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Click to collapse
Shouldn't have used bing in the first damn place.
If google really wants to stick it to the carriers, they should release the source code straight to developers at XDA and other sites so as to by pass carriers and reward the users who work to improve the OS for free. If the carriers don't want to play ball, leave them on the bench.
wideopn11 said:
If google really wants to stick it to the carriers, they should release the source code straight to developers at XDA and other sites so as to by pass carriers and reward the users who work to improve the OS for free. If the carriers don't want to play ball, leave them on the bench.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you do understand we need samsungs version of google's source code correct?
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This would make sense and apply only to new phones under development. Why would they hold up a phone/software that is already on the market and as a result punish the consumer? Once again, dont read too deep into things.
This is totally wrong. FTA:
"Google has also tried to hold up the release of Verizon (VZ) Android devices that make use of Microsoft's (MSFT) rival Bing search engine, according to two people familiar with the discussions."
The keyword is "devices." Google can't do anything whatsoever about devices that are already released -- at least, ones running Froyo or Gingerbread since both have already been released through AOSP. Honeycomb, that's a different story, and they can try to hold up new device releases through license negotiations -- but Samsung does not need to work with or go through Google at all to update pre-3.0 devices.
To put it another way, Google has nothing whatsoever to do with an existing device's upgrade from 2.1 to 2.2 or 2.3.
Falcyn said:
This is totally wrong. FTA:
"Google has also tried to hold up the release of Verizon (VZ) Android devices that make use of Microsoft's (MSFT) rival Bing search engine, according to two people familiar with the discussions."
The keyword is "devices." Google can't do anything whatsoever about devices that are already released -- at least, ones running Froyo or Gingerbread since both have already been released through AOSP. Honeycomb, that's a different story, and they can try to hold up new device releases through license negotiations -- but Samsung does not need to work with or go through Google at all to update pre-3.0 devices.
To put it another way, Google has nothing whatsoever to do with an existing device's upgrade from 2.1 to 2.2 or 2.3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wished Google would do something about existing devices, Bing and VZW are really F**king with my android experience and joy.
GREAT business practice - google owns the OS code and does the development - mfg are getting code for free
Android will be on 48% of smartphones by 2012
Why not police the UI?
Falcyn said:
This is totally wrong. FTA:
"Google has also tried to hold up the release of Verizon (VZ) Android devices that make use of Microsoft's (MSFT) rival Bing search engine, according to two people familiar with the discussions."
The keyword is "devices." Google can't do anything whatsoever about devices that are already released -- at least, ones running Froyo or Gingerbread since both have already been released through AOSP. Honeycomb, that's a different story, and they can try to hold up new device releases through license negotiations -- but Samsung does not need to work with or go through Google at all to update pre-3.0 devices.
To put it another way, Google has nothing whatsoever to do with an existing device's upgrade from 2.1 to 2.2 or 2.3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The liscense ring that includes Google, Samsung, VZW, and Microsoft is complicated and spans multiple products. Don't be so certain you know the jockeying and agreements between them. Its evil no doubt. Please offer up a better explanation of why the fascinate update is lagging all others so drastically.
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dmasjz45 said:
you do understand we need samsungs version of google's source code correct?
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point is to by pass carriers in an effort to convince them to stop mucking up code with unwanted bloat. With android taking hold of the market, who will carriers turn to if google refuses to give them code. Windows? No thanks. Apple is only interested in iphone. If cricket was the only carrier getting android and getting quick updates because they play nice with google, I think a lot of people would switch. A lot.
onemotodroid said:
GREAT business practice - google owns the OS code and does the development - mfg are getting code for free
Android will be on 48% of smartphones by 2012
Why not police the UI?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know how it is for native English speakers, but Bing voice search does not "speak" Engrish, Google voice search had no problem with it.
Scrappy1 said:
The liscense ring that includes Google, Samsung, VZW, and Microsoft is complicated and spans multiple products. Don't be so certain you know the jockeying and agreements between them. Its evil no doubt. Please offer up a better explanation of why the fascinate update is lagging all others so drastically.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because Verizon has extra "customization" on top of Samsung's "customization", and Verizon also has no motivation to make it a priority at all to release Froyo to us... why would they? They already have your money. The vast majority of users won't realize they're so far behind because they're not interested in such technical and political matters. The only people that will get upset are the tiny, tiny number of people on these forums... and I'd be surprised if the Fascinate was one of their top selling phones ("it's not a Droid!!!!"), so the Fascinate user base is likely fairly small compared to their other phones... and now they likely won't be selling it for much longer.
That makes far more sense than 'EVILOCITY!!!!!!!'. Sure, Verizon is still a jackass, but it's not a conspiracy to take over the world.
Scrappy1 said:
The liscense ring that includes Google, Samsung, VZW, and Microsoft is complicated and spans multiple products. Don't be so certain you know the jockeying and agreements between them. Its evil no doubt. Please offer up a better explanation of why the fascinate update is lagging all others so drastically.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fascinate was the last SGS variant to get launched in the US for major carriers and was also the most bloated with VZW crap ware, logically it will be the last to get the update. No need to dream up conspiracy theories.
KitsuneKnight said:
Because Verizon has extra "customization" on top of Samsung's "customization", and Verizon also has no motivation to make it a priority at all to release Froyo to us... why would they? They already have your money. The vast majority of users won't realize they're so far behind because they're not interested in such technical and political matters. The only people that will get upset are the tiny, tiny number of people on these forums... and I'd be surprised if the Fascinate was one of their top selling phones ("it's not a Droid!!!!"), so the Fascinate user base is likely fairly small compared to their other phones... and now they likely won't be selling it for much longer.
That makes far more sense than 'EVILOCITY!!!!!!!'. Sure, Verizon is still a jackass, but it's not a conspiracy to take over the world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Replacing Google search with Microsoft Bing on an android phone is so strange and wrong, its very possibly behind the problems getting froyo out. It's also the reason the fascinate wasn't a "Droid". So my original post still holds. Again, we're explaining why the verizon galaxy S is lagging all others.
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Scrappy1 said:
Replacing Google search with Microsoft Bing on an android phone is so strange and wrong, its very possibly behind the problems getting froyo out. It's also the reason the fascinate wasn't a "Droid". So my original post still holds. Again, we're explaining why the verizon galaxy S is lagging all others.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Droid is branding that VZW pays royalties to obtain; they had contractual agreements with Motorola to release phones with Droid branding around the same time. The lack of exclusivity of the Fascinate renders it a poor investment under the Droid brand and thus was pimped out to MS for extra change. Your assumption holds no ground.
FDro said:
Droid is branding that VZW pays royalties to obtain; they had contractual agreements with Motorola to release phones with Droid branding around the same time. The lack of exclusivity of the Fascinate renders it a poor investment under the Droid brand and thus was pimped out to MS for extra change. Your assumption holds no ground.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
VZW also has Droid contracts for HTC, so I'm missing the point you are making about Motorola.
Samsung galaxy S phones outside VZW were updated long ago: Samsung alone is not the issue
VZW phones like Droid X were updated long ago: VZW alone is not the issue.
Hmmm, what could be different about the fascinate then? What could it be? Well, could it be... BING!
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Read the post over again, I addressed your questions.
From some of the rumors I have read the Fascinate is not part of the droid line because Samsung has been adamant about building their own brand, the Galaxy S line. If one of their phones is going to be a Droid branded it won't be one from the Galaxy S line. Also, who cares if it runs Bing search. Bing is a usable search engine, really people, quit hating. Google is more then likely going to have to go to court to be forced play ball and let other other search providers integration in Android (like Bing, or Yahoo, or whoever). The problem with the update is either Verizon wants something included or fixed and Samsung sucks at coding. I know my next Verizon phone won't be a Samung, it will probably be the Droid X2 (if it is indeed Tegra 2 dual core and 1gb of Ram, with a qhd screen). I like the SAMOLED screens but Samsung's software support of their product is truly pathetic for such a large company. Even if they haven't released the update via Verizon, where is the workable source code? Its just sad.
Scrappy1 said:
Replacing Google search with Microsoft Bing on an android phone is so strange and wrong, its very possibly behind the problems getting froyo out. It's also the reason the fascinate wasn't a "Droid". So my original post still holds. Again, we're explaining why the verizon galaxy S is lagging all others.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're that upset about it, and so close minded that you think Bing is the sole reason that Froyo hasn't been released yet, go get a Droid phone.
imnuts said:
If you're that upset about it, and so close minded that you think Bing is the sole reason that Froyo hasn't been released yet, go get a Droid phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just getting the word out and fostering discussion. Pony up a superior theory or go home.
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