Database Users

A noobs fustration in using this forum...

Okay I have been on this forum for a few months now and I still consider my self a noob it seems as though that magical search feature that everyone demands us noobs use is not too noob friendly and to prove this I documented my frustration when trying to get this nandroid thingy to work.
Supposed noob thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3816278&postcount=3
EDIT: I am 99.9% sure this will work with a PVT board. I am not sure about DVT BUT if you are willing to risk bricking your G1 to find out, that would be great Reboot in fastboot and make sure it says "DREA100 PVT"
First of all what the hell is a PVT board? And what the hell is fastboot??? UHh wait I have to do another search on this stupid PVT board and this stupid fastboot. Searching…..
Searched for fastboot here is what came up:
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=000825...boot+&sa=Search&cof=FORID:0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
After clicking several search results there is not one single post that defines exactly what fastboot is or specifically what it does.
Searching for PVT Board……
And the results were: http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&...G=Search&cx=000825531964825142534:cqr2sjirilw
Not one single related post that clearly states what a PVT Board really is. Okay that’s out the window, maybe I can figure it out by reading how people are talking about it. Fun stuff. Unable to decypther what the hell people are talking about, NEXT search!
Okay now I want to find out what the hell a nandroid backup is.
Searching Nandroid…
Wow First success!! First result takes me to this post: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=459830
Oh no not again more words to search!!
Okay I see two strange words I do not know Busybox (wtf?) and adbd.
Searching Busybox….
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=000825...sybox&sa=Search&cof=FORID:0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Results are not clear, just links me to some posts that have some RC30 release (is the RC30 busybox? That is still not clear. Other results refer to it as some kind of back up tool, I thought the nandroid was a backup tool? SO that goes out the door Next search adbd….
Searching adbd..... Nothing that directly defines what exactly adbd is, all I got was people talking about it but never directly referencing exactly what it is ( ex: “need some questions answered about adbd and debuggerd Dream android development.” Or “restarting adbd as root”) Maybe it stands for a dumb big day? God knows.
Okay back to the original Nandroid post because its really important that a noob does a back up just incase right?………
I decided to go ahead and proceed without knowing what those two words were (of course I’ll get yelled at by everyone for not searching if I make a post asking what they meant so no point in posting).
Oh this is probably my favorite part of the post!!!
LOL the easy part!!!-* How to use this (the easy part)
And below it is this sentence:
“Just boot your phone in recovery mode with the correct recovery.img (one that has adb shell as root + busybox installed with symlinks to tar, md5sum etc) and connect it to your pc/laptop/server. Then run the nandroid.sh script. If something is wrong or missing, it will tell you. “
So lets break down this sentince (as a noob) line by line.
1st line: Just boot your phone in recovery mode with the correct recovery.img
Recovery mode? I think that is the pressing of the HOME+END key or is it the END+CAM keys? Which do you mean????? My guess is the HOME+END.
2nd line: (one that has adb shell as root + busybox installed with symlinks to tar, md5sum etc) WOA dude what planet you on?!! This entire line makes no freakin sense to me. And I do not think searching will help us there. “one that has adb shell as root” WTF is the one that has adb shell???? And wtf is adb??? And symlinks to tar? Is that encrypted language for his secret lover to find him? Geez how is anyone supposed to learn by searching stuff like this?? Okay at this point im just about to give up on this whole damn back up and just live without it, next line….
3rd line: Then run the nandroid.sh script. If something is wrong or missing, it will tell you.
Umm HOW? How do I run the nandroid.sh script and on WHAT operating system? Mac, Windows, Linux??? The only thing wrong or missing is proper Instructions and good English course!!!
If you are going to post a tutorial please don’t assume that everyone knows what your talking about and skip over steps that you think are elementary when in-fact you will discover that sometimes not everyone knows what you are talking about.
BTW I found this tutorial here (where supposedly 95% of my questions are answered….. umm sure): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=519523
Isnt this article supposedly posted to be in the pre-reading material before a noob posts questions?
This is not the only article that I found not to be noob friendly, in-fact I found very little articles that were noob friendly, here is yet another thread that I found to be rediculy confusing: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=512453
When I first went to this thread (before knowing what WIPE meant) I was like WTF is this guy crazy. Then he goes on to talk about some crazy loop (which he does not state how or where you get this mysterious loop) then he goes and pasts some code that god knows where the hell your supposed to paste it, on the phone in the command prompt or is it only in the mac????
There are soo many more threads like the ones above. It is no wonder why noobs post the same questions over and over again, its because people assume that everyone else knows what their talking about and skip what they think are useless 2 or 3 steps, well I got news for you buddy, those silly 2 or 3 steps are probably the most important steps to beginner. I am still fairly new to this forum and still am having trouble figuring out what people are talking about. I just wish that there were some kind of rules or guidelines when writing instructions or how-to guides. The ONLY guide on this entire forum that I found to be clearly written and total noob proof is this thread here:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=502010 Everyone should take a few pointers from this person that wrote that thread, although he never stated the purpose of it at the start but that’s minor.
Sorry if I offended anyone but this is the ugly truth for us noobs, it really is hard when your first starting out and some one bashes you for asking a question that’s been asked before or the noob didn’t search. Well the search feature is not exactly that great and you almost always do not find the answer to that one noob question. And yes I am very grateful for all these great hacks and I am just posting this just out of frustration from having to constantly search and after having spent hours searching and searching. I am almost certain that I am not the only noob with this problem.
My next journey is Themes my G1 phone (God help me).
Thanks,
Abe

well the essential problem is that there will always be more noobs than not...no matter how many tutorials and guides that are posted it still will not be enough for some noobs...i did not know what i was doing myself but you first you have to understand what you are reading. so after a while after reading and searching the internet i understand what i am doing and am continuing to learn...this place was not meant to be a place for exacting directions and tutorials (ala development for Dummies)...
And i do not mean anything as an insult...i am just trying to explain that this is not an organized affair with a specific hierarchy, it is a community of developers experimenting and passing that knowledge off to others in the community.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=519523
that link is from the first or second thread on the development section...reading through those will give you a lot of the answers your looking for....
and to be honest if you do not have a clue as to what the stuff your reading is then research the internet...otherwise you definitely should not attempt any of this stuff.

All I will say Is I managed to root my phone by reading multiple threads.
I actually started reading threads before I got my phone . It was confusing but thats why I kept reading . If i didnt understand something I would read over and over again. As far as finding out what busybox was I used regular old google search for that . Heres what i found based on that search.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BusyBox.
I have learned to not soley rely on the in forum search because it doesnt always seem that helpful. I think overall what the vets what is for the "noobs" to help themselves first before having someone hold their hand.

It is pretty ironic that you bought a phone featuring Google search and now want to hack it, and instead of taking time to actually learn searching techniques you write a page long rant on your incapability to do some simple research. If you cannot figure out what some of these basic terms mean, then you shouldn't be hacking your phone in the first place.
Also, what in the hell are you talking about? You say that we are asking you to search first, hello? You only have ONE post in our community, you haven't asked us ANYTHING.
Honestly, this forum is already very organized. Granted, you are a noob, but really, it isn't all that difficult. If there is something you just really can't figure out, ask it now, I would be happy to answer it for you.

SolemnWishing said:
It is pretty ironic that you bought a phone featuring Google search and now want to hack it, and instead of taking time to actually learn searching techniques you write a page long rant on your incapability to do some simple research. If you cannot figure out what some of these basic terms mean, then you shouldn't be hacking your phone in the first place.
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Take it easy, man. What's basic for one person may be quantum theory for another. Everyone isn't the same-we all perceive and learn differently. The noobs are tired of senior members telling them to search, and the senior members are tired of noobs asking redundant questions.
Also, what in the hell are you talking about? You say that we are asking you to search first, hello? You only have ONE post in our community, you haven't asked us ANYTHING.
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I think he means other noobs have been told to search when asking a question...
Anyway, OP:
the forums are huge and contain a boatload of information. If you don't understand a tutorial or certain terms, ASK. PM the OP of the tutorial or someone in the thread that sounds like they know what they are saying. Follow devs on twitter, and read extensively. Get involved.
You have to understand that there have been hundreds of noobs that only come here to ask "OMG HOW DO I ROOT??" without wanting to understand ANY underlying details. They get caught in a bootloop, get errors, or brick their phone because they don't follow directions and they want to hold devs responsible.
These people want the easy way out, so don't be surprised if senior members and devs here are hesitant in replying to a thread that has been started countless times before. Also, every one here has a life (almost everyone ), so they may not always be available 24/7 to answer unimportant (to them) questions.

I've been with this forum for little over a year now and search function may not be the best but does help a lot. I've started out with the dash, mda, tilt and now the g1. i've just been recently been posting because everything everyone does here is great. I still consider myself a noob and still learning. Ranting like this doesn't really help, spoon feeding noobs gets tiresome and i can see why the seniors gets frustrated. All you need is the patients to read thru the posts and not get blown away with all the lingo and information overload that gets yourself more confused.
This is a community built by the community no one expects to get payed for helping out, so be thankful for what this forum bring. [/rant]

I don't see whats hard about this forum.
I just followed the guides and I was set.
This is a DEVELOPER forum, so I expect it will be a little difficult to use

You don't take physics before taking elementary school math.
That's the way I look at.
But I partially share your thoughts.
I am the first to agree that a search button or Google are your best friends.
What makes a successful search, though, is your choice or keywords or phrases. And I've run into those times that had I known the proper combination of terms to use (one's that would weed-out the bizillion of results that don't relate), I would have easily found the proper answer. I've gotten buried in search results that lead to endless threads only to find out that the Google search I did for "Android Bluetooth Cupcake" might have been better had I narrowed it further with "Android Bluetooth +"File Transfer" +application". That was probably a poor example, but you know what I mean. Searching for broad and common terms usually turns up useless results, we give up in disgust, and that's when some of the redundant posts get made. I also continue to have trouble decided whether a post belongs in the "Dream" forum or the developer forum. And we won't even go into whether they belong in the developer forum, app forum or theme forum. To me, they all cross similar boundaries at times.
There are lots of other forums that are intended for end-users with technical questions. They break things down in easier to understand terms (at least for me). Most of them link to XDA for the downloads, but they offer support on their own forums. I frequent XDA the most, but I still haunt the ubber-newbie sites as well. I still learn from them.
One last thing... It's been said that the internet is akind to the wild, wild west. Forums and mailing lists are usually the worst. If there wasn't some type of moderation/control over XDA, there would be telling how deep we would have to wade to find one meaningful post. I'm as guilty as the next person of wanting immediate answers when I think I've ruined a $400 phone. Luckily, I think the rescue tutorials here are fairly good at outlining the needed steps. No, they may not explain what's happening with each step along the way... but they do give you the necessary steps to get you out a bind. If you'll remain calm, follow the steps, not expect your hand to be held during the process, and only resort to asking for help when all else fails, you'll probably get your phone working the way you want it AND learn along the way. It's the equivalent of junior high vs a college or university. Once you make a conscious choice to go beyond what's required, you're expected to do a lot of the work yourself without the teacher constantly having to offer a refresher course on the basics.
Just my opinion.

Damn double post

Threadlist

Hi!
I was just wondering if anyone would like to point me and others in the direction of some other useful threads to check out that relate to our Hero. (Not Superman, he's still GSM only)
For example, I've wondered if any subforums other than Hero CDMA in the HTC Hero Forums here on XDA have any useful info or downloads that are relevant. Also, I've been wondering the same thing about the general Android forums here on XDA.
I keep a CDMA Hero bookmark button on top of Firefox, but does anyone have any good suggestions of other sites or subforums/threads that I can add along with it and check about as much as I check Facebook, Gmail and Plentyoffish? Hahaha

The thread list is up at the top.. Under search..
Have fun with it..

http://geekfor.me/
http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc-hero/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=519
these are my bookmarks on this install, i have a ton more on my other computer but can't remember them now, these are the ones i've used this week

There is plenty to read and learn both in the G2 section, and in the wider general Android forum. I highly recommend checking it out.

Haha, yeah, thanks. I was about to say thanks, ****, but I saw you're joking so it's cool.
Before anyone tries to use the old "google it" line on me, let me say, yeah - I've googled it before. I know several good sites to check out other than XDA, like android central and so on.
I'm just wondering what other people check religiously like I check this subforum.
I'm also mainly curious to know if there's even any point reading through stuff on in the GSM Hero subforums. It's so lame that we only get one lousy little subforum! There's bound to be a wealth of knowledge, downloads, etc. in the GSM subforums, but I just don't want to waste my time or learn harmful/useless things.
By the way, if I could soapbox for a minute (and this has nothing to do with the post above this one, lol), I've noticed a lot of rudeness in the CDMA Hero posts, and it's a shame.
Of course it gets annoying to see people begging for help with common issues that have been addressed a hundred times. No one denies that, but it's just something that will always be there. Unless there is a quiz on the basics of flashing ROMs and using a device before one can make posts on here, it's always going to happen. Getting annoyed with this is understandable.
However, I've noticed other types of threads posted, which while a bit annoying because we've seen the same thing over and over, really don't deserve the rudeness that they get. Who cares if there are 50 threads on here where people ask what other people prefer to use as a daily ROM, or what their home screen looks like? Does anyone lose any money or time over this? Is there a thread limit here? No. This is a community of people who have the same device and who all want to get the best out of their devices. If a thread is pointless, it will be buried quickly when no one posts in it, and the more popular threads will remain on the first page. A pointless thread will continue to stay on the first page though, when someone takes the time to make a rude post!
Anyway, sorry to rant on and on about it, but it would really be great to see the CDMA Hero community work together a little better and be a little less anal. This is probably the number one site that people with our phone check to learn more and update and generally get more out of the Hero experience. Instead of scaring people away from making new threads and posts to ask people what they like and why they like it, we should really try to encourage this. The more we all come together and explore things together (regardless of how repetitive and in some opinions possibly even trivial some of these things may be), the more we grow as a whole, and I am sure that this kind of atmosphere will encourage more people to make more and more interesting contributions.
The beauty of Android and of XDA Developers Forums is that they were both created with the goal of people coming together and developing, creating, tweaking, designing, and discussing. Before the Hero, I was permanently glued to a Dell Axim x51v, and between these forums and HTCGeeks, and a friendly and open community of users and developers, we've taken the device FAR beyond anything that anyone could have dreamed it could get to when it was made, what, 5 years ago?

thedudejdog said:
http://geekfor.me/
http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc-hero/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=519
these are my bookmarks on this install, i have a ton more on my other computer but can't remember them now, these are the ones i've used this week
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Thanks a lot, I'm going to add these into a "Hero" bookmarks folder!

tejasrichard said:
There is plenty to read and learn both in the G2 section, and in the wider general Android forum. I highly recommend checking it out.
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Thanks for the info!

GSM Hero Themes/Apps Thread
Curious - is this thread useful at all to us, or will any themes and apps be useless since we're CDMA?
I already know (I think) that GSM themes won't work because they're probably designed for GSM ROMs, so all kinds of things won't be compatible. (Like trying to use a 1.5 theme on a 2.1 ROM)
Are things like widgets and clocks ROM and/or device specific? I'm on a widget hunt.
I'm new to using Helix and I'd love to find some widgets that compare to the awesome Sense widgets, particularly Sense's beautiful Messaging, Mail, Music, and Friendstream widgets.

raynda said:
However, I've noticed other types of threads posted, which while a bit annoying because we've seen the same thing over and over, really don't deserve the rudeness that they get. Who cares if there are 50 threads on here where people ask what other people prefer to use as a daily ROM, or what their home screen looks like? Does anyone lose any money or time over this? Is there a thread limit here? No. This is a community of people who have the same device and who all want to get the best out of their devices. If a thread is pointless, it will be buried quickly when no one posts in it, and the more popular threads will remain on the first page. A pointless thread will continue to stay on the first page though, when someone takes the time to make a rude post!
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It's not that we care that there is a hundred threads that say the same thing, its that if there are 100 threads of the same topic, it in effect, makes our forum usage a terror, because navigation is almost doomed from the beginning in that situation..
And it is not going to be something that is always there, because with mods actually modding these threads on other forums that I frequent daily, *they are virtually non-existant...
For the "noob" users, they cannot find these answers efficiently because the forum is blasted with the same thing over and over... With different answers in each thread..
The only way to make the "noob's" life easier, is to format the forum in a efficient and knowledge ready way...
Which by letting noob's overrun your forum, is not possible... We are hateful because you are feeding an endless chain of questions, when it could be handled in a much more effective way, if it wasn't for people flaming people who are actually looking out for the forum....

raynda said:
By the way, if I could soapbox for a minute (and this has nothing to do with the post above this one, lol), I've noticed a lot of rudeness in the CDMA Hero posts, and it's a shame.
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Yeah, it's kinda bad here... It's like that on pretty much any technical forum, but things are really over the top on this one.
It's to the point now that when I do have a question I feel like I need to devote one short paragraph to asking the question, then tack on 5 more long paragraphs explaining that I already DID search, came up empty handed, searched again, explain which keywords I searched on, etc....
Surely there's a happy medium that can be found...

azyouthinkeyeiz said:
We are hateful because you are feeding an endless chain of questions, when it could be handled in a much more effective way, if it wasn't for people flaming people who are actually looking out for the forum....
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Hey, I'm not trying to come off defensive to you in this reply because I appreciate your posts on here, but are you saying that I personally am feeding an endless chain of questions?
Also, maybe I'm wrong, but I think that the problem may be in people looking out for the forum too much, when the point of this whole XDA Developers Forum thing should be to look out for the fellow user. Like I said though, I may be wrong.
And I don't mean that it's perfectly cool to have hundreds of the same thread in here, I agree that is useless clutter. I just think that some threads that get posted do have potential for the good of the community, but they get squashed quickly by posters with bad attitudes, and then the OP in that thread and others who have the same thoughts and questions become too embarrassed or insulted/offended to post again. When that happens, someone who may have eventually provided something amazing to the community will either never get to that point, or will get there and just won't post it here because of the bad experience.
I'm sure that there are all kinds of amazing things that people have tweaked, developed, designed, and created, but they're never going to be publicly released for one reason or another. Let's not let the reason be that they were treated like they were stupid when they were finding their way on these forums.

subliminalurge said:
Yeah, it's kinda bad here... It's like that on pretty much any technical forum, but things are really over the top on this one.
It's to the point now that when I do have a question I feel like I need to devote one short paragraph to asking the question, then tack on 5 more long paragraphs explaining that I already DID search, came up empty handed, searched again, explain which keywords I searched on, etc....
Surely there's a happy medium that can be found...
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That's exactly what I'm talking about. People will get to the point that they just won't post anything when they have an idea or a question because there's no happy medium. And the worse it gets, the less progress we make as a whole.

raynda said:
Hey, I'm not trying to come off defensive to you in this reply because I appreciate your posts on here, but are you saying that I personally am feeding an endless chain of questions?
Also, maybe I'm wrong, but I think that the problem may be in people looking out for the forum too much, when the point of this whole XDA Developers Forum thing should be to look out for the fellow user. Like I said though, I may be wrong.
And I don't mean that it's perfectly cool to have hundreds of the same thread in here, I agree that is useless clutter. I just think that some threads that get posted do have potential for the good of the community, but they get squashed quickly by posters with bad attitudes, and then the OP in that thread and others who have the same thoughts and questions become too embarrassed or insulted/offended to post again. When that happens, someone who may have eventually provided something amazing to the community will either never get to that point, or will get there and just won't post it here because of the bad experience.
I'm sure that there are all kinds of amazing things that people have tweaked, developed, designed, and created, but they're never going to be publicly released for one reason or another. Let's not let the reason be that they were treated like they were stupid when they were finding their way on these forums.
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No not you specifically. Sorry that was an analogous "you".. And I totally agree.. But 95% of the ones get shot down immediately, deserve it, even though you might not think so, from the people with answers, you will know almost immediately if it merits further investigation. Wishful-thinking and impossible sometimes walk a very narrow line. Developers and end-users have entirely different mindsets.. That's never going to change.. But the end-users should have a more thorough understanding of what it is we do for you and *developers should be more compassionate "for the most part (there are alot of caring devs)..
Where this sub-forum was destroyed, was giving it sub-forum status and not its own separate forum, like every other HTC device.. Then, we would get a development sub-forum, themes forum, etc. The development is different than the GSM Hero, so why doesn't it deserve its own?
You will see, that with honest concerns and problems, I will go to the end of the world for you...
But, if you want something from me, (effort to help you) you must at least show some sort of effort to solve the issue, besides "NEW TOPIC< IS MY PHONE BRICKED?"

azyouthinkeyeiz said:
You will see, that with honest concerns and problems, I will go to the end of the world for you...
But, if you want something from me, (effort to help you) you must at least show some sort of effort to solve the issue, besides "NEW TOPIC< IS MY PHONE BRICKED?"
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I can definitely see your point.
But this is where the happy medium needs to be found. I know I'm the exception rather than the rule on this point, but by the time I post asking for help, it's safe to say I've spent at least one day each both trying to figure out an answer on my own (and I'm fairly capable), and searching this forum, other forums, and google to see if anyone else has had and solved the same problem.
That's effort that isn't seen, but it's extremely frustrating to feel obligated to explain it all in detail in exchange for the privilege of asking a question.
Now, don't take this post the wrong way. There's absolutely nothing wrong with expecting people to do a little digging on their own before they come crying for help.
I just think this forum (as a whole, not you specifically) has gone a bit over the top with how much "proof" of that digging is required before someone can feel comfortable asking their question.
(And I'm not really even complaining, just offering my observations on a topic that was already brought up for discussion....)

I get very sarcastic... But only because I think sarcasm is funny...
And you really don't have to explain it yourself *in every post.. Because most of us with a thorough background, can tell how much effort you put in, just by your question... (edit* Yourself is again analogous, not you)
For Example, the 2.1 thread this morning...
I opened it up, thinking to myself "Not again"...
But when I read and see that it was actually about A2DP, mindset about the thread changes, and I go into help mode... That invoked thought and development just from that post..
Now if I had opened it up, and it was a brand new "Can I change back to a rooted rom after the OTA update" question... I would have went into sarcasm mode... And I don't want to help that guy be lazy.. Why should we give him the benefit of spouting off verbatim what has been answered 1000 times before, just because he can't take the 20 mins to peruse over a couple threads??
I am all about the education of every single member of this forum, into all of the ways of Android... But its like what my papaw used to tell me, "You get what you put in."

And to ray...
Download GMOB chat, from the market...
Go to the rooted users chat, and there is usually alot of good info there, you just have to sort of wade through some of it, since you only get to see like the 50 most recent posts.. So it takes a little more effort to find anything... Also the apps room is pretty cool...
I have found technorati.com is getting alot better...
androidfreeware.com is good for apps.

OK, now to take the completely opposite side....
I was just reading another topic and in 5 minutes I saw 3 different questions posted that had been answered ON THAT SAME PAGE!!!
The proper profanity has not yet been invented to describe people like that.

See subliminal...
It's not that I don't wanna see those questions asked, I just want people to understand the nature of a forum, and alot* here do not...
If people read, before they start looking for answers, we would be alot better..
The issue is, that all of these people look to have a very limited understanding of Android, and just want a phone to use.. And this is not the forum for those.. Android-central, sprintusers.com, etc are more appropriate..
This forum is for development, not for chatting about the evo, or why your 1.5 is better than 2.1.. or how android is the iphone killer..
This forum is to bring ideas to our platform, and to build upon them... And to release mods and hacks..
Not for people to rant about how sprint sucks, and I want a nexus one..
Or to rant about how developers are stealing our donations....
It is to make our phone better, and with people feeding this nonsense, we are hindering the forum from where it should be...

azyouthinkeyeiz said:
Not for people to rant about how sprint sucks, and I want a nexus one..
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But what if Sprint sucks, the Nexus One is a POS...
AND....
Why can't I get a Nexus One on Sprint?
(I really do understand both sides of the issue. I just kinda agree that some on this forum are a bit quick on the draw with the "Use the search you ****in' noob!" gun....)

azyouthinkeyeiz said:
And to ray...
Download GMOB chat, from the market...
Go to the rooted users chat, and there is usually alot of good info there, you just have to sort of wade through some of it, since you only get to see like the 50 most recent posts.. So it takes a little more effort to find anything... Also the apps room is pretty cool...
I have found technorati.com is getting alot better...
androidfreeware.com is good for apps.
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Hey thanks, I'll check that out! By the way, after thinking about it today and catching up on this thread's replies, I think we're thinking on the same page.
It would be handy, I think, if we could get some extremely well written and dummy-proof How-To's stickied for the main page. I know there is already a sticky wicky for guides, but I remember still being a bit lost even having read them when I was new to the Hero. I wrote some extremely detailed step by step how-to's for the x51v over at htcgeeks, and though it might be my own vanity speaking, I think that it slowed down the constant repetitive questions. I'd volunteer to help out with this if we could get some Mod help to reorganize the stickies. I think we should have individual ones for...
- How To Setup an SD Card for A2SD
- How To Install Recovery and How To Use It (Nandroids, what they are, wipes, which ones to use for what, Fix UID's explanation, etc.)
- How To Flash a Custom ROM
- How To Flash a Custom Theme
- Troubleshooting PC Sync Issues
- How To Setup and Use ADB Shell with a list of ADB functions
I know we have this stuff now, but I remember it took a while to find all the info I needed to learn all these things when I was new to the Hero, and the current Guides sticky wasn't as helpful as it could have been. And I'm a pretty resourceful and intelligent guy who can search, read, and follow instructions! (Or at least I like to think so, lol)
Oh, and to make a preventative strike against hundreds of future bug reports on new ROMs, giant bold text on every page of every thread that says "WIPE DATA, DALVIK CACHE, AND SD EXT BEFORE FLASHING A DIFFERENT ROM!!!

Root but no ROM, yet

When I first got it, I thought that "maybe" I wouldn't even root it, but very quickly I felt the lag. Knowing that you can do a lot of stuff with root apps like Auto Memory Manager, Titanium, Set CPU, Cache Mate, Autostarts and the good old Terminal Emulator, just to name a few, and finding out how easy it was to do so, that was an easy decision. I just read some guy's take on ROMs, and the old saying "it ain't broke" seems to fit, at least for now. I've read a whole lot of stuff, most of it confusing for a mid-knowledge guy like myself. I think I'm waiting for something similar to what the main guys like Ben, Cyan and others have put out for Eclair, that were fairly simple downloads & flashes. I checked the MoDaCo site and got totally lost, looking at all the preliminary gyrations, twists & turns and possibilities for screwing it all up. Is there anything out there yet that is "simple" in the context I mean it? I know it's early, and the phone has some inherent challenges, but ultimately it seems the floodgates will open? Anyone with similar thoughts or disagreements? Thanks...

I'm also rooted but patiently waiting for a port of cyanogen's rom. But I haven't heard any news about it yet. =(

without a recovery all noobs are lost...
with adb/ or fastboot you could push what you want to your phone... build your ROM inside the device.... but until we have a custom recovery no flashing ROMs
OP dont worry... some high-knowledged 16 year old will make a simple click method for your mid-knowledged brain... Then you can start asking different questions in the Gen section...
like... "how do I get apps2sd on my vibrant?"--- we dont need it... we got a 2gb partition on the internal memory

the lag issues are mostly due to the way the phone stores your program data. you don't need a kernel or really even any of those other apps at all. check out this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=727279
method 1 worked like a charm AND is reversible AND works with just stock rom (so long as you are rooted)
echoing comments about, a bootloader is the key to making user-friendly mods...

We seriously need a moderator in the dev section, its getting out of control with all of these dumb questions that belong in the general area. Read the forum rules for posting in the correct area people, you're cluttering the wrong section!

sombionix said:
We seriously need a moderator in the dev section, its getting out of control with all of these dumb questions that belong in the general area. Read the forum rules for posting in the correct area people, you're cluttering the wrong section!
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The rules also say to be respectful. You can tell someone they posted in the wrong place without being rude about it.
Besides, Development requires research, research requires experimentation, and experimentation often comes from or causes questions.
It's all semantics, but calling someone's question dumb is getting close to "2.3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior."
On topic: There is not official blanket MOD for the US version that anyone seems to be talking about, MoDaCo is for the international version only, I tried to get to work but it caused me too much headache to be doing late at night and I worked to get it back to a stockish feeling.
If you don't want to fiddle with it yourself, I suggest waiting, there are plenty of posts here even of people working on mods and/or the stepping stones.

junkdruggler said:
without a recovery all noobs are lost...
with adb/ or fastboot you could push what you want to your phone... build your ROM inside the device.... but until we have a custom recovery no flashing ROMs
OP dont worry... some high-knowledged 16 year old will make a simple click method for your mid-knowledged brain... Then you can start asking different questions in the Gen section...
like... "how do I get apps2sd on my vibrant?"--- we dont need it... we got a 2gb partition on the internal memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the response. Sorry for posting in the wrong place.

sombionix said:
We seriously need a moderator in the dev section, its getting out of control with all of these dumb questions that belong in the general area. Read the forum rules for posting in the correct area people, you're cluttering the wrong section!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, I thought even among the elite it might stimulate meaningful conversation. Lesson learned, I'll stay with my own kind...

Unpolite

Why are some answers rude . If a person posts without giving it much fore thought and an answer appears to be self evident what do you gain by calling them stupid or giving a "Snotty" answer. In my opinion the person make the rude comments are showing there own stupidity. If a person makes an obvious error you can politely bring it to there attention without name calling.

I think the biggest problem here in xda is people dont search.. People ask questions that have been asked loads of times.

What a stupid question!!!
How dare you clog up the boards with this rubbish!!!
Just kidding mate
Its like my dear old mum used to say...
"Some people are just dicks"
Sent From My Toaster Using A Tin Can And Some String

BTW it's "impolite"

I think I'll vent a little here, if you don't mind..
.. but as Shum97 said, people don't search. The forum search may not be up to scratch or hard to navigate for new visitors, but it is there. Maybe having an even bigger and glaring button SEARCH would help leviate some of the [Q]this-[Q]that topics which don't get past the 5 post stage.
Another way of searching is to use Google and add "xda" into your search query. Try searching up "xda unpolite hd2" and see if you can get back to this thread (not directed at you OP).
Now a major point I think is worth mentioning:
Notice the transition of Apple iPods and iPhones from a somewhat unknown in the early 2004-05's to a global sensation beyond? Also notice an increase in "iPhone is da best ur fone cnt beat it ha!" and / or "ZOMG sum1 help me wif my prob plueeeeeeze". Once devices start becoming popular beyond the moderate / advanced computer-literate customers it starts becoming a nightmare to browse any useful comments amongst the sea of flamers and fanboys.
I think that's what is happening to the HD2. Due to its massive screen (seems size is what average joes think about) and the moderate but decent exposure by xda users, this phone in particular by HTC has begun to gain in popularity. Likewise, the phenomenon with the increase in popularity (leads to) the increase in irritating posts on this forum (or any forum really).
How to solve this?
Answering much of the questions in the Questions forum could help stem the overflow of [Q] or even [Req] topics into other forums. The reason why they are spilling over is nobody wants to answer endless questions with virtually no information and endless repetition. How to deal with that? I don't know..
And believe it or not, how you construct and word your questions can be determinate of your response time and how engaged the responder is to your query.
Questions like this..
Hey all, I am having problems with the bluetooth settings on my international HD2 (stock WWE 1.61). When connecting to my Sony Ericsson HSH925, the prompt mentions driver x missing. After browsing through some other topics, there seems to be a conflict between program x and y which causes this driver to be erased. I have tried the drivers from the other topics but they were all for ROMs before 1.61. Would anyone have a fix for this or would we have to wait for HTC to release an updated driver?
.. will most likely get answered and stay on track.
Questions like this..
HLP I CNT CONNECT MY BT HEADSET 2 MY HD2 I tried connecting thru da menu but it not work. Srry if its been asked b4 srry if its been asked b4 srry if its been asked b4 srry if its been asked b4csrry if its been asked b4 srry if its been asked b4 srry if its been asked b4 srry if its been asked b4 help me PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS *bump* *bump* *bump* *bump* *bump* *bump* *bump* *bump*
.. will most likely be ignored.
The other possibility (and this is to the extreme, but not necessarily impossible), is that advanced users / developers / testers will move off to another site, leaving this forum to wash away in endless never-finished topics. An example I like to compare to is remember (if anyone's old enough) how downloading (by that I mean illegal downloading of pirated material unfortunately), was a sort of niche, a nerdy / geeky past-time who nobody below a Major in IT would understand? Then it slowly become popular over time, and then rose sites such as Kasaa, then LimeWire, then torrent sites. Where next? Because it has become so popular, it has also attracted the flack of anti-piracy regulators (rightly-so) which just never would of happened had it remained secluded and nobody-knew-about-it-basis. I "think" the next big thing would be VPNs and proxys, but you ain't hear nothing from me.
Anyway I hope the forums don't turn out to be what the X1 forums are now (which I was a proud owner of). And to go back to the OP, I guess on behalf of xda to the wider non-tech-savvy community, we aren't angry or unpolite by nature, we are just tired of answered questions and one-line flame comments silluetting out the actual developments and hacking topics that has made the HD2 greater than it ever was.
*going to troll the Questions forum now*

I'm with btyeh on this one.
a big tip is when using google, try typing:
site:xda-developers.com [your search terms here]
i.e.
site:xda-developers.com hd2 unpolite
The top search result should be this topic.
I've been an avid user of these boards for quite a while, and encourage people to help others (as I do), but it doesn't work if people don't bother to try and help themselves first.
You wouldn't get much help if you rang a support line and said "it's broken, fix it"
Its not easy to help someone with so little detail.
What is broken?
How is it broken?
What has happened to it recently/has anything changed?
I've noticed a much larger number of topics that are repeating, and quite frankly, its making me think twice about even looking at the site, let alone bother to take the time to respond to the 4th topic of the same problem on page 1 alone.

If it chaps your "delicates", why answer? Why even look? skip the thread and go on about your day instead of being a complete prick to some stranger.
Sad thing about the internet, is that because it's through the safety of a terminal, people have sacrificed manners and common sense.
If you don't want XDA to become the next youtube-comments site, then learn to not be a search-nazi. The annoying people asking annoying questions will go away or learn to ask the right questions.

btyeh
I really value the time it took to post that. Specially when 9 out of 10 of my post go ignored. I could post something here or in another forum and it would be the same result.
I usually provide a lot of detail and thats because I really want to show that I've done my research. Doing my own research shows to me that I value others time.
I will have to agree that a lot of flames start by the person failing to search.
So now we have a delimma.
Those who arse are chapped by the insane amount of double and tripple post are asked to ignore it and move on. Those who post these topics are asked to do searches and not double post.
No one puts their foot down and says dont flame or your banned. No one puts their foot down and says do a search or be banned.
I know that sounds harsh but I think both needs addressing. The site needs to get under control the amount of first timers who ask questions and dont bother to do a search. The site also needs to put the jerks flamers and a-holes in check also myself included.
I guess my beef is I mostly have to search for these things myself. I think its only fair that someone else have to do the same. Atleast show some effort.
I am making a effort to not to be a jerk to new memebers. I Actually wont answer the thread if i think i am going to be mean.

hazard99 said:
btyeh
I am making a effort to not to be a jerk to new memebers. I Actually wont answer the thread if i think i am going to be mean.
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Click to collapse
I think we all make this effort.. but to some dudes.. its just the wrong day.. like i avoided answering this thread because i think its the most whiney ass man on man sex **** i have ever heard in my life to write a thread crying about how someone was/ is inpolite to you or someone else on a forum..
but here i am.
I think its not just the way we answer new folks though but the way the questions are asked...
when there is a thread called
"Question"
regardless what comes when you open it.. the dude deserves to get flamed.. for not even prefacing us with what a question was about.. and wasting time space and bandwidth just to pacify his own simple.. ignorance.
This being said.. a newer person posted a Question the other day and less than 4 hours later was *****ing no one answered him yet... yea i made a smart ass comment about him being a **** for expecting people to answer him in a manner of seconds.. but i also answered him. .and tried my best to help him with his issue..
i guess what im saying.. is as the theoretical knowledgeable portion of this forum we are probably going to flame ignorant questions... but we need to try and answer the questions at the same time..
Yea you might call someone an idiot for asking an idiotic question.. but if you are gonna take the time to flame.. take the time to point them the right direction while your at it.

conantroutman said:
sent from my toaster using a tin can and some string
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Click to collapse
two camels in a tiny car!

Because i did my due diligence and search like anyone who's tech savvy enough with an ounce of logic (and if you're not those type, you shouldn't be involved with ROM flashing and should just stick with stock ROM), so I don't see how that gives other people the free pass to post whatever their hearts desire without giving us some background to their problems.
Sure, I've seen threads where people were unsure of their problems but they post a laundry list with background info, pics, ROM version, etc....yet there are others who simply post "HD2 froze...phone wont get past white screen." I'm sorry, but stupidity and lack of awareness are not excuses for you to post whatever you want. What's funny are the people who complain about the "unpolite"ness every week, yet are still as shortsightedness as the people who post without any measurable contents.

greenkonstantinos said:
I have problem with my htc hd 2 rom 19.4 leo . I can't send or recieve e-mails. Can someone help me?
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Click to collapse
Just answered this one over in Q&A.
Could have been rude, but that wouldn't help him with his email problem, wouldn't have made him more likely to provide background in the future, only would have made me an asshole.
When he reply's back with the proper background info, I will try my best to help him, and then kindly bring to his attention that in the future he should search twice , then gather the apropriate background info, then post his question.
The old carrot and stick technique usually provides the best results for all.
Plus the reason he didn't post all the background info may be because he has been trying for an hour to get it to work, and may be upset that he is not able to get important emails tomorrow at work.
Being rude to people is an easy way, and easy ways usually don't pay.
There is seldom ever a reason to be unpolite

There's a couple things not mentioned so far that also contribute to the impoliteness:
Often the people who would reply have done so already for another person, and are now fed up seeing the same question.
If you've been around here for as long as some of us, or have been on a device thread since it was new, you've seen the same question asked possibly hundreds of times. How many new threads ask how to flash? Or "HELP! I'VE BRICKED MY PHONE"?
I don't remember ever opening a thread to ask a question, I just know that someone else has already asked it, and it has been answered already, I just gotta find it. Even a lot of googling is quicker than waiting for a reply anyway.
On the other side, there are some things which can be annoying about these responses, that is:
When the answer is buried in a ROM thread, and there is no dedicated thread to the problem.
or
There are more threads about the problem which say "search for 'x'", than there are actual threads with solution 'x', making searching unlikely to give the results you want. Often there is only one small thread, such as the disabling the HTC customisations thread which is only a few pages.
or
The search terms are not obvious (such as the same thread already mentioned) if you don't know the details of the problem, or the answer very well, then it can be hard to know what to search for.

I think compared to other forums ive seen XDA is by far the best almost everybody is really helpfull a few bad apples though just like every forum. But I think everyone needs to be patient to n00bs as we have all been there. I too have been guilty of posting without searching but thats since has changed.
Eitherway you guys on XDA rock

Please separate the forums CDMA,GSM.

I believe this forum right not can confuse the new people and make the others pissed off. The tags are all random right now. Why wasn't it asked to the community if this is a good idea? Instead it was "I". Come on now.

lphillips80 said:
I believe this forum right not can confuse the new people and make the others pissed off. The tags are all random right now. Why wasn't it asked to the community if this is a good idea? Instead it was "I". Come on now.
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Click to collapse
I agree The Dev forums are now more difficult to read. I'm not new to the community(not that you can tell that by my posts), but even I am getting a bit confused reading through the posts.

Dude, you should only be posting dev projects in here not your general discussions.
The forums were previously split and have now been rejoined as it did more harm then good. I just cant see how its "confusing" to anybody with common sense.
If you have a CDMA device you only need the CDMA roms, and if you have a GSM device then you want the GSM roms, simple.
Reporting post as its in wrong place.
PS. rating your own thread 5 starts is sad.

TheATHEiST said:
Dude, you should only be posting dev projects in here not your general discussions.
The forums were previously split and have now been rejoined as it did more harm then good. I just cant see how its "confusing" to anybody with common sense.
If you have a CDMA device you only need the CDMA roms, and if you have a GSM device then you want the GSM roms, simple.
Reporting post as its in wrong place.
PS. rating your own thread 5 starts is sad.
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Click to collapse
^^^^
this guy cracks me up....hes all like, im telling mom. why so damn anal? the topic had nothing to do with dev, you didnt even need to waste your time posting trying to correct someone.
im with the op, it WAS easier to navigate gsm/cdma split up. the ONLY reason it got brought back was because of this honeycomb crap...which looky there, it's primary devs are all cdma anyways. people complained after a cdma link ended up in a gsm thread...then they cry, oh WHYYYYY do i have to click another button?!? its the end of the world and my tablet wont survive unless its all cluttered in one place.
i agree with a couple posts saying the OP should just put the info in [brackets] and call it a day.
i still think they should be split up again.
as for reporting this thread, its a legit req to the devs, def not in the wrong section...there are other ways of telling them what you think but this way everyone can put in their 2 cents (myself included)

Yup, there should be 2. With most of the dev threads being non-indicative its much harder to find anything, let alone whether or not the thread is for your device or not. Recombining the 2 SGT type threads was a bad idea. We're all gonna get carpal tunnel anyways, what's one more click?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

It was split into 2, now its back to 1?! Our mod is confusing.
Sent from inside a whale.

suprajztwenty said:
^^^^
this guy cracks me up....hes all like, im telling mom. why so damn anal? the topic had nothing to do with dev, you didnt even need to waste your time posting trying to correct someone.
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Click to collapse
Nothing to do with been anal, Its to do with wanting the forum to be organized and posting crap in wrong places hinders that.
Back on topic, Splitting of the forums just isnt needed, If you want CDMA topics do a title search for CDMA using search option or just browse section as normal, its not hard to differentiate the topics.
A good vB forum mod to install to make it easier for you would be the prefix mod that enables posters to choose set prefix's, these are color coded so would be immediate more distinguishable.
If they were to re-split the forums it would be good to have some sort of third forum as a middle ground, maybe something like..
Galaxy Tab GSM Android Development
Galaxy Tab CDMA Android Development
Galaxy Tab MISC Android Development
That way we could have a non specific section for adding stuff that relates to both device types.

I believe most of the devs ACTUALLY make it clear which device their ROMs and kernels are for. People just don't read properly.
For me, it's more of actually being of help to the guys who don't read properly and complain about broken tabs rather than being able to be more organized. After making mistakes so many times they'll finally learn to do proper reading.

TheATHEiST said:
Dude, you should only be posting dev projects in here not your general discussions.
The forums were previously split and have now been rejoined as it did more harm then good. I just cant see how its "confusing" to anybody with common sense.
PS. rating your own thread 5 starts is sad.
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Click to collapse
codewisp said:
I believe most of the devs ACTUALLY make it clear which device their ROMs and kernels are for. People just don't read properly.
For me, it's more of actually being of help to the guys who don't read properly and complain about broken tabs rather than being able to be more organized. After making mistakes so many times they'll finally learn to do proper reading.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm smart enough to look at the title, and I liked it the way it was before.
At 3am, tired, doped up on my meds, feeling frisky to flash a new rom, brain fried, it was easier to go to the CDMA section, now I have to be even more careful. Not that it matters if I flash a GSM on my CDMA as I can always restore, but that's not the point.
Yes there are way to many kiddies that wont read for a week before they flash a kernel or rom and get stuck on a normal samsung boot loop, and it is normal for someone like me to ask if putting a gsm on a cdma tab will completely break it, or if it would work, and there are the lurkers who just want to install stuff.
So separating was a better idea, I could have gone to the forum for the device I wanted to read about, knowing i was in gsm or cdma, now I have to decipher what is what, or the more popular GSM threads might push an important cdma thread to page 2, where it would have been at the top for a week, and don't get me started on the HC ports for both GSM and CDMA, that alone could really screw someone who doesn't have 3 tablets and can afford to be without a daily use tab for an entire weekend.
A good mod/admin looks beyond what they feel the more established crowd might like, and makes adjustments for the new people that could provide help for projects like the HC port once they have been able to read in an organized forum. Also what exact proof is there that the former setup did more damage? what, and extra click or 2 to go back and forth between cdma and GSM? ****, put a direct link in your FF BM tab,
Like this............

It was split into two, and then people started complaining to svetius so it was put back. We're never gonna make everyone happy here, but we're trying.

My gripe about the split was that there was no middle ground. For example there was no section to post stuff that wasnt device specific.
IMO it should either be left as it is now, not split or split and a third section added for misc or "non device specific".