Database Users

General thoughts about XDA

You know I have always come to XDA with my windows mobile phones and now my g1. I never made an account because I've always done my research on how to do things on my phone. But just recently there are a lot of new users comming to xda to learn and ask questions and achieve the new things we have on our phones. Not everyone has the intelligence to do things and sometimes have to have things done for them. but if they are actually taking the time to ask a question, for the next 10 pages of posts they are getting flamed about how they are in the wrong section or how they are idiots or just snide remarks or sarcastic responses, that right there is driving people away from this forum. like a lot of people say why not let the mods take care of it, why flame the user? what do you achieve? do you feel better about yourself? I have always loved XDA and i may not have had that much to give to the community. I also want to say thank you to all the developers putting forth all the work.

XDA is like having a girlfriend. It's fun at times but mostly it's hell. But you stick around so you can pound that pearl! hahaha jk

ernvillanueva90 said:
You know I have always come to XDA with my windows mobile phones and now my g1. I never made an account because I've always done my research on how to do things on my phone. But just recently there are a lot of new users coming to xda to learn and ask questions and achieve the new things we have on our phones. Not everyone has the intelligence to do things and sometimes have to have things done for them. but if they are actually taking the time to ask a question, for the next 10 pages of posts they are getting flamed about how they are in the wrong section or how they are idiots or just snide remarks or sarcastic responses, that right there is driving people away from this forum. like a lot of people say why not let the mods take care of it, why flame the user? what do you achieve? do you feel better about yourself? I have always loved XDA and i may not have had that much to give to the community. I also want to say thank you to all the developers putting forth all the work.
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I think its good to do some Trial & Error before asking some questions.Don't ask a question that was answered above your post. I don't like when people start spamming or trolling and they say the rom is slow just cause they don't know what they're doing. Now the search here isn't perfect and finding some things can be difficult but if you do xda+(rom name,etc) you should find the thread with google.Instead of making a new thread like how to root dream/G1m do root G1 on google and you will find something.

Ace42 said:
I think its good to do some Trial & Error before asking some questions.Don't ask a question that was answered above your post. I don't like when people start spamming or trolling and they say the rom is slow just cause they don't know what they're doing. Now the search here isn't perfect and finding some things can be difficult but if you do xda+(rom name,etc) you should find the thread with google.Instead of making a new thread like how to root dream/G1m do root G1 on google and you will find something.
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I most agree with you but why flame the user is what im getting at. just the rudeness and the snide remarks. what benifit does the community get from this? if anything they are driving away people that you never know may become very good developers. just let the mod deal with it and redirect them and they will eventually learn. i myself dont like to ask for help. i rely on google and on the search. im just doing this for all the new members that may join xda. i mean these people that are quick to flam someone on how they broke a rule bc they posted in the wrong section arent they breaking a rule as well by flaming the other user? or insulting them? i never see anything being said about that... just my thoughts. from this point foward mod go ahead and delete this or do what you please with this. i just thought id speak my mind for once rather than just sit by and watch people get flammed or instulted and from this be discouraged and driven away from this forum.

ernvillanueva90 said:
I most agree with you but why flame the user is what im getting at. just the rudeness and the snide remarks. what benifit does the community get from this? if anything they are driving away people that you never know may become very good developers. just let the mod deal with it and redirect them and they will eventually learn. i myself dont like to ask for help. i rely on google and on the search. im just doing this for all the new members that may join xda. i mean these people that are quick to flam someone on how they broke a rule bc they posted in the wrong section arent they breaking a rule as well by flaming the other user? or insulting them? i never see anything being said about that... just my thoughts. from this point foward mod go ahead and delete this or do what you please with this. i just thought id speak my mind for once rather than just sit by and watch people get flammed or instulted and from this be discouraged and driven away from this forum.
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I didn't mean its right to do that,cause the rules say to respect other members so they are going against that. I think if they have nothing nice to say then keep your trap shut real tight.

It's just how this forum seems to operate. It's massive, with a very lenient policy on trolling and off-topic harassment. Combine that with a userbase that seems to trend on the younger side, you get a lot of kids who think they're anonymous and because of that, think they should just flame the hell out of anyone who asks a question.

I only respect people that try. If it's available already on xda search and google search. I wasn't spoon fed and I will not help themselves. If we say there is already a guide that show you how to install adb, root, unroot, wipe, flash etc. we mean that someone took the time to create the guide for that and one can easily find it by searching.
But there are some user level things that xda needs to address, such as stickied updated user guides a better more forum level faq. I think something like that needs to be created which may cut down on common repeat questions, but why do that when it says to search first on the first sticky but they still don't anyway. It's a loosing battle any way you cut it.
Better rom layout in the dream section anyway would be a huge plus. Even as simple as have a [main dev - 1.5/hero -- 1.6 -- 2.x -- 2.x sense] would be big for the android section.

I think what makes XDA different from a lot of other internet forums is the subject matter being discussed...it is very technical in nature. Rooting, flashing of ROMs, recovery images, themes, and SPLs is pretty heavy stuff.
Lots of non-technical people own these phones, yet it takes a technical person to mod them, so naturally a lot of basic questions will be asked and naturally those already in the know will grow tired of being asked.
It was just a few weeks ago that I didn't have a clue about modding Android, but after reading a lot and asking a little, I was able to catch up pretty quickly, and I have XDA to thank for that. My only advice to my fellow forum members is because of the highly technical nature of this forum, a little extra patience is required compared to other internet forums. Yet at the same time adequate policing of mis-posting and unnecessary posting is required. Just gotta find the happy medium!

i think my autoresponse to people emailing me at [email protected] really says it all (as well as my signature - the patience bit)
the number of emails asking "how do i root" "what is root" "what is a custom rom" and even the classic "wat duz dis shizzle do yo?"
This is an automated response
Your email has been received.
This email address is exclusively for help and support with the
CM-Updater and CM ROMs.
Emails asking "how do I root?" "how do I get CM" and "what is this app
for" WILL BE IGNORED.
Emails using poor language and/or grammar such as "wat duz dis do?"
WILL BE IGNORED.
Emails using bad language and/or are rude WILL BE IGNORED.
CyanogenMOD is for the Dream/G1 and Magic/MT3G only.
If you are inquiring as to whether or not it will run on the droid,
hero or any other phone for that matter - YOU WILL NOT RECEIVE A
REPLY.
If you are looking for the IM app which was removed after 4.2.9.1
Look Here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5208623#post5208623
I am NOT cyanogen nor do I hold any great pull with him - we just
mutually benefit from each other.
I WILL NOT forward messages to him or request features on your behalf.
If you have not received a reply within 24 hours then the chances are
your original email did not fit this criteria.
My apologies for being so strict. 20-70 emails a month for this can
get annoying when it is often down to people not reading properly.
If you require more in depth help, please consider SEARCHING the XDA forums.
As a last resort, start a new thread (in the QnA section please, not
the development section).
I WILL NOT HOLD YOUR HAND AND GIVE YOU ALL THE ANSWERS
Thank you for using the CM-Updater
Kind regards
Garok89
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ernvillanueva90 said:
Not everyone has the intelligence to do things and sometimes have to have things done for them. but if they are actually taking the time to ask a question, for the next 10 pages of posts they are getting flamed about how they are in the wrong section or how they are idiots or just snide remarks or sarcastic responses, that right there is driving people away from this forum.
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To be honest, if it drives away idiots who can't be arsed using the search button or even Google on their Google phones (god forbid!) then the forum will be a better place without them.
If someone posts "What's root? i can't find it on the market." they deserve to get flamed. (a surprisingly common question i get asked a lot, by the way.)
We were all beginners once, i appreciate that, but you won't get anywhere and you wont learn anything if you don't figure stuff out for yourself.

this site is so huge that sometimes a search wont find what you want, either that or it does and its lost amongst all the flames and other questions. sometimes it takes asking a question again to get what your looking for... i try to find what im doing and read up on it all before i do stuff new, like flashing the 10mb ram hack i did recently for instance. did a lot of reading and searches. and for a final to make sure asked some good people over at the irc channel...
i can see why some people get flamed, but sometimes its just an ego trip some geek thats made this stuff his life is on...
btw xda is the best site for this stuff, with all the flamers, theres still some good people that are glad to help

Meltus said:
To be honest, if it drives away idiots who can't be arsed using the search button or even Google on their Google phones (god forbid!) then the forum will be a better place without them.
If someone posts "What's root? i can't find it on the market." they deserve to get flamed. (a surprisingly common question i get asked a lot, by the way.)
We were all beginners once, i appreciate that, but you won't get anywhere and you wont learn anything if you don't figure stuff out for yourself.
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I can understand what you are saying, but people need to be more understanding as well.
I was once flamed for not using the search button when I asked about getting really short battery life with a specific ROM. Some asshat told me that I needed to use the search function because it had already been discussed. Well, type a common subject like battery life into the search function and you're going to get a gagillion responses (just got 20+ pages doing it). After saying that in the thread, I was then told by the same guy that I should go back and read the thread by this person. That's all fine and dandy, but when the thread is damn near 150 pages long, that's not really an option either. To me, it seems as though this forum often lacks basic common courtesy unless you're one of the frequent posters even with non-beginner questions.

A brief rant about some of the members here

Honestly I am starting to get sick at the attitude of some of the members of this forum. It takes more time to ***** than to just simply skip the post and go to the next one.
As the forum gets bigger (XDA today is huge!) you will have simply no way of avoiding these kinds of posts. Telling them to go search or being rude to anyone is NOT going to help.
This used to be strictly a developer forum but with all the press it's getting, the site has been growing a lot over the past few years, and by being an ass you're insulting the very people that are helping this site grow, and even those saying HUGE THANKS by donating money to you for your hard work. How rude is that?
C'mon, let's be more upbeat, forgiving and helpful towards our fellow members and let the actual moderators do their jobs.
/rant

It's 50/50 I just avoid reading something if I know I might get a littlke snarky about it and I agree with some of what you're saying. It had someone today that made a thread asking for something that was literally 3 threads down from his post. I found that rather annoying. But still pointed him in the right direction. NOT everyone is as patient as some of the members here. Just saying.

Kshawn said:
It's 50/50 I just avoid reading something if I know I might get a littlke snarky about it and I agree with some of what you're saying. It had someone today that made a thread asking for something that was literally 3 threads down from his post. I found that rather annoying. But still pointed him in the right direction. NOT everyone is as patient as some of the members here. Just saying.
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I don't mind when people flame them for not searching...as long as they then answer the question (like you). Because it is so annoying down the road when you are searching an issue...and a thread comes up with your exact problem...and the only replies are telling the person to go search..when that's what you're doing!

There comes a time when people get to the breaking point with lazy people not wanting to search. In those instances it is absolutely infuriating, particularly with someone posting like was done earlier where the answer to his question was literally on the same page... Not only that, it was in the dev forum to boot.
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...

EtherealRemnant said:
There comes a time when people get to the breaking point with lazy people not wanting to search. In those instances it is absolutely infuriating, particularly with someone posting like was done earlier where the answer to his question was literally on the same page... Not only that, it was in the dev forum to boot.
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
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^^^^^
This.
We are a development forum, this isn't the place to get hand held and walked through the same idiots guide 30 times with pictures and line by line instructions. I have no problems helping people that want to help themselves. Seeing, "Why can't i flash this" when they aren't even rooted, have nand locked and never bothered to even check the stickies angers me to no end.
We were all noobs once and we learned really quickly to search, read and then read some more. When you think you know what you have to do then you should read some more. Then try.
Many here flash development kernels and then we end up with 15 pages of 55 fps OMG. Camera is broke! Can we fix it? OMG I have an epson with screen tearing I'm going to return this pos! Nova panel no fix? Dude I'm returning it for an epson!
Don't even get me started on the cross device posts and people threatening to return their device. Return the damn thing. I don't need you to justify my decisions. I also don't equate my penis size with my phone so; grats the Iphone records 720p awesome if that is what you need then by all means help yourself. No need to post. No need to post "I love my EVO" Threads in some lame attempt to counter act the negativity of another device doing something better than yours. Take that stuff to one of the other laid back forums where people aren't actively trying to fix problems.

Grims said:
I don't mind when people flame them for not searching...as long as they then answer the question (like you). Because it is so annoying down the road when you are searching an issue...and a thread comes up with your exact problem...and the only replies are telling the person to go search..when that's what you're doing!
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Why should I waste my time digging the link up for them? Then they are just going to expect it EVERY time and we will keep getting the same posts from the same people who are too lazy to take the time and search and read.

Tough call, I am relatively new here but I help a lot at other forums and this stuff happens everywhere. Some days I bite my lip and some days I am a smart ass.
I definately agree that if you decide to reply you should say something useful so to not populate everyone elses search results with useless info. Of course the bad part about ignoring a noob's post is that they will then keep bumping it themselves until someone tells them to go search....so you can't win!

The other day when I posted at another forum that progress was being made on nova panels and the 30fps cap I flat out told them I wasn't going to post the link because the developers needed the thread to work. I of course credited xda just didn't give them the thread.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

EtherealRemnant said:
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
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Actually, by telling them to just search and not answer their question, we will ultimately HURT those who are actually UTFSE....Google. By responding to them you are BUMPING the thread. Either let it die, let a moderator take care of it or simply tell them to search, but point them to right direction kindly and with respect.

It's pretty apparent that UTFSE is a common issue and maybe you can modify behavior through the forum itself? I don't see why the forum can't search out the keywords being used, sentences and such and force the user to "review" previous postings prior to making a new one? It could even go as far as to have them review and check off certain starred postings "before" making a new one. I have been blasted on other forums for not searching and thus I learned my lesson very quickly. Since it is such a common issue on many different boards, I would think someone could come up with a solution.
My .02-

I don't know how much I agree with the OP. I have been using these forums for maybe a year or two at this point and for the most part the balance seems to be 80% helpful 20% trolls. I figure that everywhere, in any forum there are always going to be trolls but on the whole XDA has ALWAYS been helpful. Maybe I'm just lucky and havent had to deal with too many trolls but either way, while I agree with the OP, not sure how large scale of a problem this really is.

I think one of the biggest problems is search itself. I can find my way around ok, but even searching can take an inordinate amount of time.
People tend to take the path of least resistance, so if they have two choices: search or ask, they'll take the option that requires the least effort--they'll ask. So even though they get *****ed at about searching, they'll still just ask because they're likely to get an answer in a few minutes without having to do any work.
I believe the answer, and what would help this community the most, is to consolidate the most requested information in a SINGLE SIMPLE place. I've checked out the wikis, but to be honest, things move so fast here, even the wikis get out of date quickly.
Consider some of the most asked newb questions:
"How do I flash this"
"I can't get adb to work"
"When will it be out"
"My battery sucks, what do I do"
Most of this information is readily accessible with a search, but the advice is varied as much as the individual results. For those of us who understand what we're reading and who can filter the wheat from the chaff, tinkering is great fun. For others, they just want expert and reliable information that works.
How do we put that together?
For example, I've seen advice such as: "To save your battery, remove the people widget." I get four hours of battery @ 100% with the people widget, so am I lucky? Is that bad advice? At best, it appears anecdotal. What we owe the community, and the newb offenders that generated this topic is fact based, concise advise that is easy to read, easy to obtain, and easy to download.
I also think XDA should start adding moderators commensurate with its growth. Moderators should DELETE DELETE DELETE posts that burn time and energy when this information is readily available. XDA is nothing but a big ass database of information, and like any other database: Garbage in, Garbage out. We need to keep the forums clean with relevant information.
I agree with the OPs original aims: We should be gracious to newcomers and help people out. I'm sick and tired of reading snarky "go search you dumbass" posts, but I also agree, it does get REAL OLD seeing the same old "I flashed this and now I'm bootlooping, OMG, someone help me now"
One last point and I'll shut-up: The devs spend WAY TOO MUCH time doing bull**** troubleshooting. If we all stepped up and took care of the basic PD for their work, they'd be free to keep doing what we really want them doing and that's improving their ROMS, Apps, Themes etc. So while we work on figuring out how to manage information, you can best help out by answering every question you can so your friendly dev can keep coding.
Apologize for the rant...

What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.

PoisonWolf said:
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
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Gotta agree 100%.
Give a man a fish (or thread link) and you feed him for a day... Teach him to fish (or search) and you feed him for a lifetime.

PoisonWolf said:
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
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Finally! I couldn't agree more.

I will have to say that I think XDA desperately needs a wiki-post forum feature like the ones on slickdeals.net or fatwallet.
Would save a ton of time on these massive threads with posts that might have outdated info.

jmxp69 said:
I think one of the biggest problems is search itself. I can find my way around ok, but even searching can take an inordinate amount of time.
Most of this information is readily accessible with a search, but the advice is varied as much as the individual results. For those of us who understand what we're reading and who can filter the wheat from the chaff, tinkering is great fun. For others, they just want expert and reliable information that works.
How do we put that together?
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I couldn't disagree with this more. XDA is not an end user support forum, it is a forum for exploring new development techniques and ways to hack devices. The main purpose of XDA, in my opinion, is NOT to provide sweet consice fully working solutions. The purpose is to share information that leads up to finding complete solutions.
If new users want to find easy answers then they should use another forum, such as AndroidForums, which do a pretty good job of only linking back to XDA if it is a complete solution. If users want to use XDA then they need to deal with SEARCHING through the developmental process.

While the constant occurrence of people refusing to search on their own is annoying, I find the flat out disgust for anything not Android (or w/e forum you're in) to be painfully immature. It happens everywhere but there are too many posts on here that sound like a 12 year old "dissing" some other kid in school (iPhone the majority of the time).

06ms6 said:
I find the flat out disgust for anything not Android (or w/e forum you're in) to be painfully immature. It happens everywhere but there are too many posts on here that sound like a 12 year old "dissing" some other kid in school (iPhone the majority of the time).
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Depends on how it is done. Personally I enjoy the friendly banter between IPhone an Android.
And it is interesting to compare issues between devices.

ramiss said:
Depends on how it is done. Personally I enjoy the friendly banter between IPhone an Android.
And it is interesting to compare issues between devices.
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Comparing is good. Some people have used the same phone for a year or two and are just now experiencing a new handset or even a new operating system.
It is when the whole one-sided "fanboy" bickering happens...that the thread goes to sh-t

[Q] Lets Get Serious Here Guys

every since this phone was announced these threads have been sprinked with useless garbage, generally speaking.
please clean up your stuff, one guy was complaining how there is lag on his nexus S after 62+ apps. Get a grip, child. compared it to his nexus one...which had well over 100 apps. this is nonsense and i dont find it as a gauge to compare anything...sounds just dumb.
gripe. but gripe right. for instance.
nexus s is an official google phone. yet i had to MANUALLY get all their apps, google ones that is, not to mention my market didnt upgrade STILL on its own. weird how i had to literally type out the market apps to find its upgrades in stuff i had.
EVERYTHING i had to get. which simply BAFFLES me since my tmobile G2 had everything pushed instantly.
Secondly, rockplayer....PLEASE WORK..i neeed to see movies. all the codes needed to be updated now...god dammit.
I guess this what its like to have a google only phone? i dont know, i dont get it. i find this phone incredibly gorgeous and have gotten alot of compliments. going to miss my nexus one but its the next of kin..im off contract still..my 3g is faastt 4.3mb-5.1mb always. idk..just clean up your talk

Good point, I have noticed a lot of useless fluff everywhere, but over time that will probably disappear as more and more devs are able to release NS mods and roms which, if popular, will push all the useless threads back down the que. But that still doesn't solve the problem, so I will add my support behind this.
Some tips to avoid posting useless posts
1. Use common sense: lag after 62+ apps, maybe more are running in the background, or more intensive? Think!
2. Google/search it: more and more people are getting this phone, so maybe you will find another post like yours, with an answer already in it!
3. Try and fix the problem yourself: with the lag example, maybe try the task manager and see if anything is hogging resources? That seems quite easy to do, no?
Then maybe it's a good idea to post a thread.

Never mind posting in the right section... Seriously, the development section is overflowing with threads that belong into general. Ironically, this thread is a prime example. It doesn't help that the mods (whoever and wherever you guys are) seem to be non-existing in this forum. Whosdaman has been doing a great job keeping the MT4G forum organized while at the same time helping people understand what belongs where. Where are our mods and how come there still isn't a Q&A section?
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

I don't know, I find it kind of amusing that a guy with a whopping two whole posts in 5 months to his name is going to start a thread saying most other posts on the forums are useless garbage. Seems kind of pretentious to me.
I'm all for SEARCHING before starting a new thread, and SEARCHING before asking the same question in a thread that's already been asked and answered a dozen times. I'm all for READING FAQ and READING STICKY POSTS before posting questions. I'm all for POSTING IN THE RIGHT SECTION.
And to the OP, I'm all for USING A PROPERLY DESCRIPTIVE THREAD TITLE. Yours gives no indication about what you're really discussing in here. Something like "Let's keep this forum on-topic" or similar would be much more appropriate in my opinion. You also marked this as a QUESTION, and it's not. Very poor topic titling...
On the other side of that coin, I'm not sure I'm qualified, or anyone else besides moderators, to say you're question/post was too stupid to have been made, go away. Sheesh, we're here to help and learn off each other; that kind of attitude isn't conducive to a helpful environment. It leads to the kind of cesspool that our sister device's (the Vibrant) forum turned into where there's so much sniping and hatred at everyone that several high-profile devs have left.

Is it just me that I think the OP is also a useless gripe?
Sent from my Nexus S

nxt said:
Is it just me that I think the OP is also a useless gripe?
Sent from my Nexus S
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Is it just me that I think the OP is an Ass?
JD

PRETENTIOUS? how about whatever I need I researched or found put on my own. Just because I wrote tyro posts? Come on guy, your better than that.

dudeimgeorge said:
PRETENTIOUS? how about whatever I need I researched or found put on my own. Just because I wrote tyro posts? Come on guy, your better than that.
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I applaud you're ability to find your own answers, but yes, your OP here was a bit pretentious in my opinion.
It's pretentious because you assume that your judgment of what is and is not a value-added post is the only accurate one while at the same time you make the very same mistakes that you're criticizing. You posted in what some might consider the wrong section, with the wrong topic title, and marked the thread as as a question despite the fact that there is not a single question in your post. Then you threw in insults to others by saying their posts and opinions on lag are dumb, and then went on to about four different issues that aren't related to your original subject.
The original premise of your OP was that we shouldn't clutter the forum with irrelevant posts, but then you did that very same thing with your post. It's certainly ironic, if not pretentious.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, just amused at the pot calling the kettle black situation here. This thread should die.

Well, you know the drill: MY concerns are serious bidness; YOUR concerns are frivolous garbage.

I restored 87 apps with Titanium Backup. No lag whatsoever. Everything runs smooth like butter. Much smoother than when I had the Vibrant. So that person obviously installed something to make it lag.

Man did I **** up. Haha. Sorry man.Your my boy regardless.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

Suggestions for cleaning up and moderating the Forums

1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
2. More Mods! I think just one or two more mods can help the forums a lot and clean things up.
3. Warnings for people who post questions that have already been answered on the front page of a thread or faq followed by a temp ban if they continue.
I'm really tired of the cycle of
- Dumb question posted
- Followed by "read the damn thread or use the damn search button"
- Followed by "Hey you were a noob once and theres no harm in answering the question you ass along with lengthy answer on the question that will inevitable be asked 10 more times in the near future"
- Continue flame war that now has nothing to do with the thread anymore
You enable people by holding their hands. Don't be an enabler. If you managed to find out how to do all this crap on your own, they can too. At most you should point them to the right thread and let them read up on it on their own so they can further their own education.
4. Don't PM the Devs for requests. They have enough work on their hands and don't need to be flooded. Remember the rule of think before you speak? Try thinking before you PM.
Anyhoo, there was a bunch more, but I'm sure you guys/gals have other ideas.

riceknight said:
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't understand why the "[How To] Return to Stock / Fix Bricked Epic" thread is not sticked.
If someone posts they bricked their phone and needs help you post the link to that thread and lock it.

I like the sentiment of this thread but fear it might be taken the wrong way. Whosdaman is really a wonderful guy and has been very helpful to me but it seems like he is very busy (and who can blame him for dealing with things outside of the interwebs?) so I support this I would also like to issue a blanket "Thank you for your hard work" to Whosdaman.

Seeing as this is a collection of developers I don't see why we don't customize the forum itself.
I don't see any reason we can't flag the development and Q/A threads for every phone. Then, if "is this a question" is set to yes, automatically put it in that phone's Q/A forum. On top of which we could add a "You are posting in the development forum, this is reserved for people developing for [insert phone]. Please check the box below to confirm that you are developing something you wish to share." anytime people posted in the development forum.
Obviously people can still screw it up, if nothing else on purpose, but we can expect people who have never been on the forums to know how the forums are laid out, usually by reading the rules, which never happens, to sort their own, or we can make it as self sorting as possible.

Sounds like whosedaman just needs some support. Perhaps another mod added to help out. We all have to keep in mind that these guys don't get paid for this and real life always trumps forums life. Just my thought on this.
Sent from my Epic while i should be working

I was wondering why there was so much confusion in this forum, as I really liked the forums I used for the month I had a Moment before the Epic dropped. Was there ever a forum on here for the moment??? I couldnt find one, so I checked sdx, which I remember lurking back then and found my answer. Why can't Xda have 'child forums', with descriptions of where and why to post things?? They have a 'market' forum section for ROMs, etc, which we here are using development exclusively. I understand why, but it seems its this way here because of limited tools for organizing, can this sites software not do that? It is completely logical and intuitive to post questions directly regarding development or roms in the development section if you are new... I would have expected a sub-forum for roms only, or at least some direction other than after the fact... usually unless its horribly out of order, whosdaman is pretty polite about it, and given the feelings regarding this device, things get silly in here. Anyways, yes, at least sticky all roms and things 'coolguy' or whatever dont warrant flaming, and then politely notify the new people that questions regarding development actually get booted over to general, where intuitively people would assume GENERAL questions like 'do you like gmail or the stock app better?'.
More mods? Better structure? Who has control over this? Are there any experienced volunteers that can help whosdaman out with his daunting task?
We need to expect more 'joined in Dec 2010' and later members as every idiot with a blog and engadget included seem to think this site and forum are the authority, even over Sprint and Samsung (if XDA says 2.2 is dropping, it must be true, head over there and complain about it). NOTHING against new members, just that there is little direction other than the 'rules' that most people think are just 'dont flame, no kiddie porn... etc...' Dont get all elitist because people couldnt figure out your simple, non-intuitive structure because its their first 5 mins here.
Love this forum, but its like people are baited into getting flamed by assuming this forum runs like most any other... I thought I saw the end of this when I refused to go to another BBC chat... guess not.
If you feel that you must deputize yourself, please, copy the link to the wiki, rules, etc and paste them in misplaced, repeat threads and leave it at that.

since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...

ungovernable1977 said:
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
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Pardon? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'a fluff post'. I sincerely hope Whosdaman reads this thread and takes into account that there are some of us who would genuinely like to help him make our forums a more manageable place to browse and share ideas/roms/themes/etc. I am in no way asking for myself to be made a mod but rather I believe there are people here who would make good mods and I hope that WDM sees that we support him and want to help him make our community more accessible!

I'm willing to be a mod here I have experience and would know and how to handle things here...
Admins or mods pm me
sent from my Epic 4G

riceknight said:
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
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Click to collapse
Did you do a search before posting this? There's already a thread on it, learn how to use the search.
Ok, that was my attempt at humor

ungovernable1977 said:
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
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I don't think this is fluff at all and whosdaman does deserve to be thanked for his, well, thankless work.
1488 is a race thing. They usually won't tell you what the ideology of it is in public. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
Although I don't agree with the sentiment of the belief structure, I support their right to peacefully observe their beliefs.

Yeah I know that meaning its generally a tattooed target, was just hoping it was just some retarded interweb speak. Sorry to hear. Almost forgot what it was though... not many Boneheads around here, not anymore.
BTW, I respect Lady Gaga's work, although I dont like it, therefore I see no reason to put it in my username.... its ok, you have a right to be a Nazi in this country...

Regrettably, I do read almost every thread in this forum, and forums I maintain...
<--------- Look here, I have 8 forums to maintain full time, but 6 are dead lol
Yeah I do have a life outside this for sure. Not only am I a senior in High School, I am on the Mock Trial team, the Robotics Team, a Sales Representative for Sprint, and a Writer for BriefMobile.com
So yeah I would say I'm busy, but I look over the entire forum as much as I can. Shep211 has been extremely busy in his personal life, that's why I started helping.
It is a thankless job, it's a volunteer job. All free, I don't get paid. The only thanks comes from the owner of the site when I say "if you fix this the site will be better."
Besides all that I can single handedly control this entire forum. I know it sometimes looks cluttered and in a mess, but then again...the Development section is spotless, which is truely the only thing that matters. The General section is meant to be a mess because it's where everyone posts their questions and complaints.
There are applications to become a moderator here on XDA, you have to meet certain requirements to be considered and then be approved. No one of this forum knows my experience as a moderator unless you used GameBattles.com for PS3.
If you want to help me out the most, please please please, use the "Report Post" feature. Every reported post goes straight to my inbox, and I see every single one. Normally RP's get extra attention as they obviously have bothered someone enough to have it reported. 90% of the RP's are either Ghost or Kenvan.
The search feature would do alot of people good, it's nice to tell people to do something, but Report the post/thread and I'll take care of it. You clutter up the forum and threads by posting in threads saying to post in General, just report it. That's all.
Sure, I wish everyone searched because there are at least 5 can't root threads. I would rather merge them all but it too much work to find them. Like I said, let the noobs make their mistake. The members report the post, don't tell them they were wrong. I'll move it, shoot them a PM, and then post in their thread telling them where they should have posted. Then hopefully they will learn.
Thanks again,
WDM

kenvan19 said:
Pardon? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'a fluff post'. I sincerely hope Whosdaman reads this thread and takes into account that there are some of us who would genuinely like to help him make our forums a more manageable place to browse and share ideas/roms/themes/etc. I am in no way asking for myself to be made a mod but rather I believe there are people here who would make good mods and I hope that WDM sees that we support him and want to help him make our community more accessible!
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Sorry, fluff may have been a wrong choice of words, I was implying that as this has been talked about before, and ignored by the powers that be, I saw it was going to end up an off topic post eventually, or at least until the elitist post Nazis (no offense bigjim) came in and said how we are cluttering their precious first page of posts, because as most have trouble with the AMAZING search function, a lot here have a lot of trouble with 'next page', you dont even have to pick which page, it takes you right to the next one!
Sorry, this is just getting really retarded around here, oh and BigJim,apologies, last comment on your beliefs, if off topic, but being an anarcho-punk, its hard not to at least ask if that is REALLY what you are talking about.

hehe *blush* I've tried to resort to reporting posts lately as opposed to trying to deal with problems on my own. Hope its not too much of a burden.

THANK YOU whosdaman! that is a very simple way to deal with the clutter issue... didnt even realise what the report button was till i looked around for it. I agree that not replying, positive or negative is good, if its easier for you to redirect them (you could probably easily make a form letter, just sub in 'froyo', 'GPS', or 'search' and the rest is pretty much the same!)
So what of the ability to make sub forums??? to be able to have a section under Dev that is for general DEV RELATED questions would be cool... most people assume that General is for stock, non rooted phone discussion, and Development is for anything to do with development. I think I remember one called 'all things root'?? Idunno, but you get the idea. So what is the plausability of this?? not possible with site software? Too much work??? Just curious, I have asked in similar threads and I think you were too busy with other stuff... I tend to avoid PM especially if it is something someone else may be able to answer, as we all know, mods are busy, especially in this forum. Thanks for all your hard work!

I certainly appreciate all the hard work Whosdaman has been doing with these forums, but unless he enjoys handling all this, wouldn't an extra mod or two be helpful?
My biggest thing is the FAQ post. Someone asks questions, you can point and say you should have read that first. Like I said before, the Wiki is great, but its a little cluttered and outdated as well as being hard to edit. Having one person willing to just moderate that one thread would be so helpful.
It bugs me when the whole community seems to be represented by the lazy people who just spam post. There are plenty of helpful, polite and very well informed that get lost among the clutter. In fact, they probably outnumber the newbies but don't feel the need to post nonsense. For every idiot that asks a dumb question, there are probably 10 that actually do research and figure it out for themselves.

kenvan19 said:
hehe *blush* I've tried to resort to reporting posts lately as opposed to trying to deal with problems on my own. Hope its not too much of a burden.
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Nope, I love you and ghost for reporting post. I always look forward to waking up and seeing 10 new PMs lol
ungovernable1977 said:
THANK YOU whosdaman! that is a very simple way to deal with the clutter issue... didnt even realise what the report button was till i looked around for it. I agree that not replying, positive or negative is good, if its easier for you to redirect them (you could probably easily make a form letter, just sub in 'froyo', 'GPS', or 'search' and the rest is pretty much the same!)
So what of the ability to make sub forums??? to be able to have a section under Dev that is for general DEV RELATED questions would be cool... most people assume that General is for stock, non rooted phone discussion, and Development is for anything to do with development. I think I remember one called 'all things root'?? Idunno, but you get the idea. So what is the plausability of this?? not possible with site software? Too much work??? Just curious, I have asked in similar threads and I think you were too busy with other stuff... I tend to avoid PM especially if it is something someone else may be able to answer, as we all know, mods are busy, especially in this forum. Thanks for all your hard work!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no control over sub-forums. And right now it is only me working on the entire Epic forum. Like I said shep211 is gone atm.
svetius is in charge of the entire site, and I've talked to him about improvements that can be made. I wouldn't bother him too much or he'll just ignore ya. Most of the time the only things he is interested is fixing errors with the site itself. Right now I don't think we are in the area of reorganizing the entire site.

ok, so adding a subforum is not possible? Or is it a decision to make the structure uniform across the whole site? Just thinking, because this forum is like maximum security, different from the rest... or so it would seem...

I'm not so sure making more areas, and thus more chances to be wrong, is a good way to combat posting in the wrong area.
If you have a rom question, ask it in the rom thread. All that would happen if there were subforums for things in development, and discussion of things in development is we'd have 37 threads about how "I just discovered ___ doesn't work in [rom]" instead of 50 posts about it in the rom thread.
(Not to mention you'd then be blurring the line of when it is or isn't ok to post in the DEV forum, where as now, if the person bothers to read, there's a pretty clear cut "If you aren't about to post about the thing you just developed, GTFO" rule.)

A Small Rant....

In my past year being an android owner I have noticed a change of attitude in the development threads. When I bought my vibrant when it first came out a friend referred me to XDA. I was new to the android OS and didn't really know too much about how to root, flash, etc. This site taught me everything I know about my phone that I do today, and I learned by using the SEARCH button. I hate to ask questions especially if I was the one to break it. I have "soft" bricked my phone more times than I can count. And everytime I do and its something new that I have never seen I use the SEARCH button and like magic answers appear on my computer screen.
But back to my original gripe about the attitude in the dev section. Used to, people read the warnings that were CLEARLY posted in the OP of a new rom. They also followed directions like the rom dev posted. Now there were a few people who didn't and ****ed their **** up but nothing like there is today. I was a noob back then and really didn't understand half the stuff of what was posted. But I read and researched and now today I finally have an understanding (albeit small, but an understanding none the less).
For the last couple of months though everytime a new rom comes out and we'll use these 2 as an example (Frost by Krylon and then CM7) people fill the thread with pointless ****. Yeah I understand that problems and glitches need to be reported but after 10 pages of the same **** over and over again I think the dev understands that "hey this issue may need to be resolved ". Once 1000 people same the same **** about a issue they found STOP posting **** people. It clutters the ****ing thread for people who actually read for the sake of not bricking their $250 device.
Take for instance the CM7 thread right now. If you sit there and read every page you are going to find at least 10 people that have used the 2g/3g toggle widget and ****ed their **** up by doing it. Even though it CLEARLY STATES IN THE OP not to use it. Then they wanted to complain and say it was an issue with the rom and it should have never been released yet, but because of their actions and stupididty they caused the problem to begin with.
Then in the Frost thread people are just ASSHOLES. Krylon worked his ass off to put out a 2.2.1 TW rom. These people who flashed a rom that was FREE for them started demanding he do this, and put this into the rom, and blah ****ing blah. PEOPLE these guys and girls do this **** in their free time for FREE. And if you like what they put out then by all means donate. But we have a saying down here "Don't **** with the hands that feed you."
If you think something is not just the way YOU like it in a rom then by all means build it your ****ing self. It is why its called ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT. Don't sit there and ***** about something that you had no hand in creating.
Pretty soon if the *****ing and nit picky **** continues the devs will just leave. Kinda like Eugene has done before. Like I said these guys do this **** for free in their spare time for fun but here recently with some of the comments that I seen posted it has kinda taken the fun out of it.
This is a community, basically we are one big android family. We all have a common goal and that is to make our stock phone run at its full potential. Part of the fun of flashing a new rom is seeing all the modifications and themes that were put into it. I have always thought of a new rom like opening a present on Christmas morning when I was like 5 years old. Yeah sure you might have a bad flash or 2 but that's the other part of the fun. Learning how to fix the mistake that was made. That way you learn from your experiences and the next time that happens, hell you will know what to do to fix it.
Im almost done I promise.
In short just use the search bar before posting an issue. I promise the answers you seek are out there. I know because I have had the phone to pc error, the E. Can't mount and I seen that error message several different ways. But also read read read the OP because 9 times out of 10 the devs already know about the issue or have posted what is not working and you should not use that feature of the rom.
Thanks for your time reading this and if it sounds like a madman ranting you can thank tapatalk and the small screen. It was hard to see and that's why there are so many paragraphs. But I felt this has been needing to be said for a while now and reading the cm7 thread tonight was the icebreaker.
Sent from my CM7 powered Vibrant

+1
I lurked on the Vibrant forums for a good month and a half before I even made my first post (coincidentally, it was the time when JI6 was going OTA). Before I even made my first Vibrant related post, I knew about the terms Odin and Froyo that doesnt brick and all the other goodies (although I was no expert at the time). It helped me immensely the first time I soft-bricked and it kept me from panic.
Reading is a lost art.

I know if people only read more it would save a lot of headaches.

I agree 100% with the FIRST 3 paragraphs, after that I fell asleep. Search button is everyones friend.

I understand. I kinda went on for while. Oh well, it all needed to be said anyways.
Sent from my CM7 powered Vibrant

vibrant2010 said:
I understand. I kinda went on for while. Oh well, it all needed to be said anyways.
Sent from my CM7 powered Vibrant
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Click to collapse
I agree totally!!!!!!!!!!!! The only thing I would add is that just skimming over the OP does not get it you need to read it THOROUGHLY AT LEAST TWICE and sometimes three times. I know I have to and even than I am ashamed to say I have not understood key points in the OP. I cannot even imagine how the Dev feels when reading the thread with all of the redundant questions and statements. I am so appreciative to the devs and to this community. Without them I would not have any of the very small level of knowledge and experience(very small) and the confidence to mess with this 250.00 phone. A tip of my hat to the entire community(those that read) and most specifically the DEVS!!!!!!!!!

But,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=876777
Is a sticked post on every forum subsection...
Maybe the mods need to post in ALL CAPS!
So chances are... if people don't read the stickies (which answers most of the questions)
Then... well...

I think that the fact that the Vibrant is so difficult to hard brick and people's lack of attention to detail lead to a lot of the dumb questions. While that is annoying, people demanding the devs do this or that and the general rudeness is what really ticks me off. Asking that a feature be added nicely is one thing, but telling them to do something crosses the line. The Frost and MIUI threads are key examples of this. The sense of entitlement around here is dumbfounding.

Have you seen the MIUI thread? Its been cleaned at least 5 times. That thread alone makes me embarrassed to be a part of this community. Here's a summary of some of the dipshits that wandered in there:
"I was forced to run this buggy beta on my phone for a week"
"This never should have been released" (never heard of beta testing apparently)
"He's sick? I don't care, updates or I want my money back.....oh wait..."
I love Android, but there are too many ****ing children here with no respect. (Makes me sound like an old man)
Only on the internet, can you have someone who provides an awesome service, at no charge to anyone, and people still be absolute pricks to them.

Haha you remind me of how i used to be on this forum with my crusader posts
unfortunately most of the **** you are talking about WILL NEVER change. its just the way it is. everyone is lazy to a certain degree, but some people are much lazier than others. its just how the world turns. and once you start giving these people hand-outs, for lack of a better term, it will only make it worse.
vibrant2010 said:
If you think something is not just the way YOU like it in a rom then by all means build it your ****ing self. It is why its called ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT. Don't sit there and ***** about something that you had no hand in creating.
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+10 on this^^^

I see the op complaing yet offering no solutions. This is why "rant" threads are annoying also. If it's thst much of a problem write a thread how to use the search feature. I think the problem with most people is they do not know how "find" what they are looking for with ease. For example switching search entire post instead of search title will give information overload in the search results. To even use these options you must select advanced search. But all anyone says is use search. When a noob is faced with 10 pages of results he/she is goin to start a new thread or repeat a post. The op point is valid not new.

ntellegence said:
I see the op complaing yet offering no solutions. This is why "rant" threads are annoying also. If it's thst much of a problem write a thread how to use the search feature.
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Click to collapse
i disagree with you. YES rant threads, in general, accomplish absolutely nothing.
with that said, just because the OP is annoyed with some very relevant problems, does not mean its his responsibility to coach people on basic forum rules. the rules are easily accessible, and honestly....lets not kid ourselves....these people know that the search function is there, they dont need us to tell them.
in fact, id rather see a rant like this than a "search function" thread. "searchsearchsearch" is the oldest ***** in the book. people arent going to search. thats the way it is, theres no reason to start a thread on it, its a problem you can find on ANY forum on the internet......and there are quite a few out there.
in terms of this rant, the OP does bring up some other points that are development specific that are important.

Being on XDA for 3 years, I think the main issue is people wanting to verify the answers they do find when searching are updated/still correct.
To that, I say I do my best to make sure the stickies have the most common questions and are updated, and I solicit constantly for people to help me monitor/update. I feel the Dev Bible does a good job of this too.
So, ASSUME the searched information is correct.
And yes, do SEARCH!
EDIT, and the OP was so long I gave up on reading it all.

s15274n said:
I think the main issue is people wanting to verify the answers they do find when searching are updated/still correct.
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this is very true. there are times when you will read something, but youre feeling over-cautious, and you want to just "hear it" directly from someone just to verify.
i really dont have any problem with that at all, its perfectly understandable. problem is its impossible to know when someones doing that, or if theyre just being a sack of sht.

hey am a living proff people learn from mistakes ............LOOK AT ME NOW )

Well said.......
But, people don't read and many that do don't understand what is being said. That contributes to 1/2 the problem,,,,,,But---
Couldn't agree with you more

Failure to search pales in comparison to the flat out disrespect and sense of entitlement shown by some members.
As TopShelf said, getting people to search is a problem that pretty much comes with the territory. Also as was mentioned, people want confirmation, or they feel their situation is somehow unique enough to warrant its own topic/post. We were all new once, so this is understandable.
There is no excuse, however, for the selfish behavior of a lot of these people.
Yes this is a rant thread that offers no real solutions, but short of banning anyone who steps out of line (I am not suggesting this should be done), there aren't really any real solutions. Its just good to vent every now and then, that's why its called a rant.

Problem: People don't read.
Solution: Text-to-speech. (ooo and make it Linda's voice)

Well said.
It's nice to see how passionate some of us can get, and I think that's what makes these forums so good. Sadly there's always going to be these idiots who should have purchased iphones that don't know how to read the OP or follow instructions. They just get flash happy and f*ck up their phones then blame it on the dev's all because they don't know how to read. Sadly what those imbeciles don't realize is that they are slowly getting rid of the dev's who make the roms. Without them we'd be stuck with boring devices.
I'd personally like to see more bans. Ask a question that has been answered in the OP: BOOM, warning. Make that same stupid mistake again, BANNED! XDA needs to start weeding out the morons. This isn't a place for brain dead pot smoking teens who dnt no how 2 sp3ll. It's a place for learning, helping and modding.
Ahh it feels nice to rant.

Paging Dr B said:
XDA needs to start weeding out the morons.
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HAHA say goodbye to 75% of the members, some might say myself included
lets face it, its hard to judge members, because every single member is going to have different opinions about every other member.
mho: they need to enforce the rules more. they need to start disclipining. whether its a 2-post noob, or a 2000-post vet....if someone gets disrespectful....drop the hammer. AND DISPLAY DISCPLINE COUNTS ON USER PROFILE AND WHEREVER THEY POST. we have a "thank you meter", how about a "**** you" meter. bad reputation should be meaured as well, so people know who they are dealing with, and members are held accountable for the way they act.
theres too much politics, and THATS the problem. we have noobs being noobs, but we also have old-timers running around thinking they can say whatever to whoever. and to be honest...i get much more upset when someone gets egotistical rather than when someone doesnt search.
theres too much "internet muscle" on this forum, and frankly its embarassing. some dudes seem to think that just cause they know how to mod a services.jar means they have some sort of special talent, which entitles them to some sort of virtual ego. please dude, it aint that hard, a little modesty never hurt anybody.
NO ONE here should be immune to discipline. from noob to dev....same rules for everybody....that is XDAs biggest weakness.