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Hello, so after seeing the reviews and videos of the much anticipated "Nexus One" phone or should I say "BEAST" of a phone we as G1 or Dream users are left to wonder, What do Android and HTC have for us in the future do they think about us? It seems that with better and faster more agile processors being released to such phones like the Nexus, future ROMs or mods will be too much for our limited G1's. It used to be if you wanted to run customized Roms then only you decided wether "Hard Soft SPL" "partitioning or not partitioning" and etc, now it seem that will be the only way to run these sick out of this world roms in the coming days, in the future of Android. Android 2.1 makes me think of the possibilities of technology in our century but also of the budget of our pocket money between deciding necessity or commodity. I saw a developer asking for help or donations to help him get a phone for test. I for one woul love to be able to donate but as it is economy status is "Force Close" in Androids Terms. Please comment on this if you'd like, Just a thought.
Everyone running CM could probably donate $0.50 and it would be enough to get him a Nexus One.
The only thing that isn't future proof with the DREAM is the douchebags at HTC failing to provide required source or at LEAST give us new proprietary binaries for our hardware.
The device doesn't have to be super duper newest latest greatest thing to run a new set of software. Just because GN1 happens to have the equivalent of an AMD Radeon R600 GPU (yes, it is even an AMD GPU built on that same architecture) doesn't mean that what Dream has can't chug through the work! We *have* a 3D GPU to handle the required visual effects. Maybe not as smooth, but it WILL DO IT! Compiz runs at 1600x1200 great on a crappy Intel GPU, which is architecturally INFERIOR to the GPU in the GN1!!! And Compiz does the same kind of effects! But we only need to worry about 320x480.
Android has and does run on a retardedly out of date Palm Treo 650. Not so good, but just to note, the difference between a Treo 650 and an HTC Dream is MUCH MUCH greater than the difference between an HTC DREAM and a GN1!
IT CAN BE DONE.
It HAS been done.
But the problem is with HTC! They don't have the same kind of respect for open source as AMD has (providing all required programming documentation, and quite a bit of labor, for open source drivers for GPUs up to and including R800).
The solution:
We need to reverse engineer (parts of) the proprietary binaries! And starting with the parts needed for the CAMERA.
We could possibly make this part functional by writing something as simple as a wrapper library to adapt the OLD camera library to meet the requirements of the NEW AOSP.
The compromise:
Maybe not all of the advanced coolness will work out, but that is the great thing about source code... it may not be necessary! Some stuff can be dumbed down to work.
maxawesome said:
Everyone running CM could probably donate $0.50 and it would be enough to get him a Nexus One.
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How's that going to help with DREAM?
.50 cents?
If everyone gave Steve a penny then he could buy 2 Nexus Ones and a new snowboard. Everyone that uses CM, parts of CM, Recovery Image??? That has got to be at this point the Majority of Dream\Magic users. I wish there was a way to count.
Donate to Steve if you use anything of his. He is a great help to the community.
www.cyanogenmod.com
Guess we make the future.
With the source for the basic android freely available, it's up to Dream / G1 users to write their own future after the first 2 years are up.
If you're not a developer, then maybe this would be worth learning to do.....if not for this phone, then for your next one.
I'm thinking that in the 21st century, the truly free person will be able to grow their own food, build their own house...and write their own software.
At this point, not being able to write software is beginning to feel like not being able to read and write. Always relying on someone else to do it for you....and having NO CLUE if you can't do it for yourself. I don't like that feeling. I've started learning how to program: C / C++ and Java. Don't want to be useless or dependent.
linuxluver said:
I'm thinking that in the 21st century, the truly free person will be able to grow their own food, build their own house...and write their own software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like I'm all set then....
Hey all: what happens when you put the obsolete camera binary in a 2.0 image? Is it an unknown symbol error? If it is, then it might be easier to deal with than the general assumption!
Cyanogen already has the nexus one. he said hes not totally dropping support for g1/32B but I would expect the frequency of his updates will go down.
My one huge question in regards to the N1...
How is the battery?
Because the G1 is a wonderful phone... when you can use it.
Anyone have any idea how the N1's battery compares to G1 and iPhone?
arsieiuni said:
My one huge question in regards to the N1...
How is the battery?
Because the G1 is a wonderful phone... when you can use it.
Anyone have any idea how the N1's battery compares to G1 and iPhone?
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Coming from the g1 to nexus one as far as battery life is concerned is like night and day imo. When i wiped my phone on g1 i reinstalled all my apps i use, 96 total in market and on sdcard and had less than 40% battery left. I did the same with the nexus one to test the battery and when i was done it was down to 87%
Ryanmo5 said:
nexus one to test the battery and when i was done it was down to 87%
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See what does it tell you about the importance of battery life... that I see the Nexus One with all its shiny-ness and I think I'd like one... but not until hearing this comparison do I feel like "OMG NEED ONE NOW GIMME GIMME GIMME!"?
Haha..... G1's battery was its major weakness. I'd love to have a very similar phone with a GOOD battery.
I saw someone say that Nexus one wasn't able to sync the Calendar. Is this true? It may have just been a misleading statement... and I'm hoping so because I can't imagine Google making a newer, better phone that can't do a simple thing like keep your Gcalendar like G1 can.
Can you get all the same apps on Nexus one since it's Android?
arsieiuni said:
See what does it tell you about the importance of battery life... that I see the Nexus One with all its shiny-ness and I think I'd like one... but not until hearing this comparison do I feel like "OMG NEED ONE NOW GIMME GIMME GIMME!"?
Haha..... G1's battery was its major weakness. I'd love to have a very similar phone with a GOOD battery.
I saw someone say that Nexus one wasn't able to sync the Calendar. Is this true? It may have just been a misleading statement... and I'm hoping so because I can't imagine Google making a newer, better phone that can't do a simple thing like keep your Gcalendar like G1 can.
Can you get all the same apps on Nexus one since it's Android?
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Click to collapse
My N1 can sync with calendar no problems. Some apps you cannot use yet because they do not support the newer Android 2.1 OS. Most apps have no problem with it. Thsoe that dont work will no doubt be updated by the developers once the Android 2.1 SDK will be released.
Yeah... I'm gonna want one. I will not get one until May more than likely because my contract with Tmobile won't run out til then but... that'd be alright. It gives me time to save up for it.
I wonder if you can get the n1 for contract price with Tmobile if you just sign upf or their $40/month unlimited web service.
Anyone else heard of this: http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google Mobile/thread?tid=7154dabda82d872e&hl=en ?
Sounds like win to me...
Does anyone no if the apps on the Nexus one save to sd now?
no they do not. Google has confirmed though that in a future update they will.
I do not want to upset anybody, just trying to get some understanding of the entire upgrade to a new OS version.
I'm a programmer myself, but on Windows platform and mostly do middle tier business server side apps. Do not know a thing about Linux and android. But had some java experience in the past.
I wonder why we cannot get Froyo so long? Ain't the sources open? Even if we do not have some drivers, these parts cannot change dramatically from version to version. Published API must be stable...
Is this about Dalvik JVM? But, I guess this must be in released ROMs for other phones in the line.
What's the deal? Will appreciate some explanation here.
Android is open source, but that is only the operating system and the kernel, but the drivers and RIL that make the device actually functional are the issue as far as I'm aware. From what I've read here and in IRC, Samsung gave us a hack-job RIL, which is causing many of the issues with getting an AOSP ROM fully compiled and working. I think there may be some driver issues as well to be worked out yet, but I feel those are less important than getting things like phone/data/messaging working. I'm guessing there are more technical reasons why they can't just get 2.1 or 2.2 built from source, but those are probably the big issues.
Honestly, it boils down to Samsung.
Put simply, they're crappy coders (as HTC once was many moons ago), or they're just hella lazy (I strongly believe its the former, given RFS and this RIL mess). Most companies are pretty crappy coders, but most of the time, it doesn't interfere with major things, like OS upgrades.
That, plus the lack of effort or support on Samsung's part, has me never wanting to buy another Samsung phone again, or ever recommending an Android phone from Samsung....
I'm gonna do my best to find in my next phone another quick processor with a nice super AMOLED screen and be done with Samsung, I've had enough, and I'm a very patient person....
What is RIL? Is this Radio Interface Library?
Is it linked into kernel or other module? Not extractable at all?
As I imagine it to myself, if it is some sort of dll or package, it shouldn't matter if we do not have source, because it's interface have to be already strictly defined. It doesn't matter if it is buggy. It should work with any android version.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
P.S. I have Dell Axim v50x and people already created ROM from scratch! However it doesn't have RIL. ;-)
CNemo7539 said:
What is RIL? Is this Radio Interface Library?
Is it linked into kernel or other module? Not extractable at all?
As I imagine it to myself, if it is some sort of dll or package, it shouldn't matter if we do not have source, because it's interface have to be already strictly defined. It doesn't matter if it is buggy. It should work with any android version.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
P.S. I have Dell Axim v50x and people already created ROM from scratch! However it doesn't have RIL. ;-)
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if it could have been done, birdman would have done it already
Well I think it's a valid question. Some might think it tedious or obnoxious, but absolutely valid. This is a development forum after all. The reason we don't have 2.2 isn't a hardware limitation, so it must be a practical one -- or yes it would be here.
But I'll just speak from speculation in the hopes that someone will correct me. For god sakes this is a development forum! We've got releases, we have fixes, we have patches, we have complaints, we have gossip. I'd love to see all the _development_ discussion I can get.
From a wider puzzle-piece perspective, I would like to know what is missing. We have working drivers. We have working hardware. We have full source from Google for the operating system. There are several other android phones on Verizon, a few even have Froyo. Sprint currently offers a CDMA Galaxy S phone (Epic) with android 2.2, and that phone possibly shares some hardware (though the WIMAX radio is totally irrelevant to us).
I'm not up to speed on exactly what the RIL is, or how it gets plugged into the android kernel. The RIL (Radio Interface Layer) is a software layer between android itself and the drivers controlling the phone hardware. Google provides some samples for a carrier to create one to govern communication on their network. I'd expect one issue of randomly hacking something like this, is if you are taking over your radio hardware's communications, then you have the capability of putting unwanted data on the network, which might even be criminal. Am I being extreme? So, perhaps we can't touch the RIL and need to wait for it to be spoonfed to us by those that bought the radio band from the FCC. Perhaps this code is inexorably married to particular hardware, unavailable for reading, or even encrypted. Maybe the primary limitation is the royal pain in the apricots that it is to inspect, decompile, and reverse engineer binary code.
But what if we could do something?
My understanding is the RIL is only a carrier-specific interface to the underlying hardware. Shouldn't it be similar between phones, even with wildly different hardware? Shouldn't its interface also be similar between close versions of android? The Droid 2 is a verizon phone with a RIL that does indeed work with Froyo. What I'd like to know is A) can another phone's RIL be extracted within the same carrier, and B) Being the abstract entity that it is, what prevents it from being married to the Fascinate's hardware base?
To be honest, I ardently believe a frank discussion (sans opinions, complains, problems, just productive discussion w/ a smattering of facts) BELONGS in the Development forum.
I'll stop here, in case this thread dies, as so many of mine do.
Jt1134, adrynalyne, and fallingup(angel12) are all very capable as well. This is solely the fault of none other Samsung.
Edit: to answer your question, i think that.the answer about RIL is no, although i dont have a good qualified answer about why the RIL from D2 cant be ported im sure that if it could have, it would have. Sorry thats not a better answer.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I don't know anything about how the RIL works, but I would assume that it could only be easily ported from one device to another if they were using the same chipset in the underlying hardware for the phone. I doubt you'd be able to take the Droid 2/X RIL, and take it to the Droid 2 Global or Droid Pro. Given that, I'm guessing that you can't really take a RIL from one phone and put it on another without extensive work, since most OEMs tend to use different hardware in their devices. From what I've heard, there is a semi-working AOSP build floating around, so the devs are trying, but Samsung's crappy source to work from is not making things easy for them.
There are actually some semi-working builds of aosp floating arpunfld but the last time I checked one out it was missing one thing that I consider to be kind of a biggie. It couldn't quite make calls. I'm sure they have it to make calls now but there is a reason its not out to the forums yet. I agree withstand nuts up there. Thanks you Samsung.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
ksizzle9 said:
There are actually some semi-working builds of aosp floating arpunfld but the last time I checked one out it was missing one thing that I consider to be kind of a biggie. It couldn't quite make calls. I'm sure they have it to make calls now but there is a reason its not out to the forums yet. I agree withstand nuts up there. Thanks you Samsung.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
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i believe there was still no radio at all in aosp, and the hope is that 2.2 can fill in the gaps
Wow, wow, wow!
Why do we need another phone RIL? Current one from SF at hand should do perfectly. Did Google changed something in android API related to a RIL? I don't know for sure, but never heard or read anything making me think they did it. Android should call RIL and that is set in stone. ALL calls signatures must to be known. Something new may be added, but it is not show stopper.
So, I still do not understand - is it not extractable or what?
Even if not and it is somewhere in protected memory, encoded or whatever, Froyo slapped on top must work, IMHO. And sources available. So, why we stuck waiting for Samsung?
I know, one may say - do it yourself if you are so smart... Once again, I just want to understand root of the problem. I probably can do something, because I have degree and experience. But, it will take me forever. From what I've tried and seen learning curve is very steep.
On the other hand, skilled developer might simply need fresh look at the problem... May be guys just hitting wrong wall?
CNemo7539 said:
Wow, wow, wow!
Why do we need another phone RIL? Current one from SF at hand should do perfectly. Did Google changed something in android API related to a RIL? I don't know for sure, but never heard or read anything making me think they did it. Android should call RIL and that is set in stone. ALL calls signatures must to be known. Something new may be added, but it is not show stopper.
So, I still do not understand - is it not extractable or what?
Even if not and it is somewhere in protected memory, encoded or whatever, Froyo slapped on top must work, IMHO. And sources available. So, why we stuck waiting for Samsung?
I know, one may say - do it yourself if you are so smart... Once again, I just want to understand root of the problem. I probably can do something, because I have degree and experience. But, it will take me forever. From what I've tried and seen learning curve is very steep.
On the other hand, skilled developer might simply need fresh look at the problem... May be guys just hitting wrong wall?
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is it possible? perhaps...but the 5 or so guys who really develop for this phone havent been able to get it to work....nor is aosp working 100% on any galaxy s phone
Response from developers?
Anyone?
Yes, you know so much, we are waiting for you to fix it.
Hurry the hell up.
adrynalyne said:
Yes, you know so much, we are waiting for you to fix it.
Hurry the hell up.
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Click to collapse
Agree get your ass moving so we can have teh honeycombzzzz. Quit being such a lazy stingy jerk and get us our AOSP!
ksizzle9 said:
Jt1134, adrynalyne, and fallingup(angel12) are all very capable as well. This is solely the fault of none other Samsung.
Edit: to answer your question, i think that.the answer about RIL is no, although i dont have a good qualified answer about why the RIL from D2 cant be ported im sure that if it could have, it would have. Sorry thats not a better answer.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
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yes i was just pulling one dev name out for the heck of it
but i subscribe to the "if it could have been done, it would have been done"
adrynalyne said:
Yes, you know so much, we are waiting for you to fix it.
Hurry the hell up.
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I don't care what you did for community! But you behave like f****g jerk.
No real explanation for the rest of us? Stay on irc, we will survive without your comments here.
CNemo7539 said:
I don't care what you did for community! But you behave like f****g jerk.
No real explanation for the rest of us? Stay on irc, we will survive without your comments here.
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that may be a problem for those who just stay here as virtually everything is irc only these days...or the majority of it anyway
CNemo7539 said:
I don't care what you did for community! But you behave like f****g jerk.
No real explanation for the rest of us? Stay on irc, we will survive without your comments here.
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How many different ways do people need to say that "it's being worked on"? The devs are doing a lot of work on our device, but also working with other stuff, all in their free time. Follow the stuff they do on Twitter and github, or join in on IRC.
Attitudes such as your's are precisely why the devs have stopped posting stuff here. You act as though it's a simple process to do things, when it isn't, especially when Samsung gives you a crappy base to start from. The devs have to first get Samsung's source fixed and cleaned up, then start on whatever it is they want to work on, all while finding more bugs and issues that need fixed, primarily all stemming from the crappy source. If you want to be angry at someone, make it Samsung, not the few devs that are working on our device.
Sent from my StupidFast Voodoo Fascinate
As I said - I will survive. I'm OK even with not rooted stock.
Was it so difficult to answer what the real problem is? I don't know what is the problem with this generation? Do I need to be on FB, irc or whatever to get the answer? Why do not answer in place? Ain't it this forum purpose?
No, seems like I need to kiss somebody ass to get meaningful response these days... That way he can maintain his "super god" status.
I do believe I've been pretty polite stating my question, even though English is not my native language. What generated so much sarcasm?
Just wanted to start a thread to point out my dismay with all the 2.2 or higher ROMS for the xperia. While I appreciate the work of the devs, it seems that the ROMS keep coming and they all have the same problem, over and over again. The camera is possibly the best feature of the X10, and when a 3rd party app as simple as barcode scanner does not work the phone is not nearly as useful as it could be. Video recording and camera are not essential parts of a "phone", but they are basic features of virtually every smartphone.
To the devs, get the camera working and you will truly have something special. Until then, these ROMS are all incomplete.
Also, please do not post about market alternatives like vignette or videocam illusion. They don't solve the problem with 3rd party apps that need the camera like goggles or the aforementioned barcode scanner.
I really hope the devs get it together and get the camera working under 2.2 or higher. Until then it is back to 2.1....
bbtheory said:
Just wanted to start a thread to point out my dismay with all the 2.2 or higher ROMS for the xperia. While I appreciate the work of the devs, it seems that the ROMS keep coming and they all have the same problem, over and over again. The camera is possibly the best feature of the X10, and when a 3rd party app as simple as barcode scanner does not work the phone is not nearly as useful as it could be. Video recording and camera are not essential parts of a "phone", but they are basic features of virtually every smartphone.
To the devs, get the camera working and you will truly have something special. Until then, these ROMS are all incomplete.
Also, please do not post about market alternatives like vignette or videocam illusion. They don't solve the problem with 3rd party apps that need the camera like goggles or the aforementioned barcode scanner.
I really hope the devs get it together and get the camera working under 2.2 or higher. Until then it is back to 2.1....
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Ummm...I'm pretty sure they get it. Writing a driver from scratch with all the functionality is not a simple task and pretty useless if they can't get the rest of the phone features to work. Or better yet, how about you learn to write one?
will.m said:
Ummm...I'm pretty sure they get it. Writing a driver from scratch with all the functionality is not a simple task and pretty useless if they can't get the rest of the phone features to work. Or better yet, how about you learn to write one?
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Click to collapse
While your right, the OP still makes a valid point.
Day after day there is a new Rom out and its the same developers doing them. But they all have the same things not working. They aren't actually trying to complete a Rom properly and making then stable but instead they just jump to a new one. Fixing the problems rather than just giving new features would be a better solution going forward and would provide better quality custom Roms.
While I agree with the fact that the devs are great they seem to be putting quantity before quality.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
will.m said:
Ummm...I'm pretty sure they get it. Writing a driver from scratch with all the functionality is not a simple task and pretty useless if they can't get the rest of the phone features to work. Or better yet, how about you learn to write one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good idea but I am not a dev nor do I aspire to be one. I think my point has more to do with the devs who have everything working but the camera, then move on to another ROM again with no working camera. It seems silly and counterproductive to me.
bbtheory said:
Good idea but I am not a dev nor do I aspire to be one. I think my point has more to do with the devs who have everything working but the camera, then move on to another ROM again with no working camera. It seems silly and counterproductive to me.
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Can you point me to a rom that has everything working apart from camera? I have tried them all above 2.1 and not one can be classified as fully working apart from camera........
Free x10 has everything but camcorder... Awesome rom imo
i agree, respect to the devs but i need my camera, it's part of a reason i bought this phone and without it it's just not it...
for example Z's beta 4 2.2 is quite complete and over-all very stable and just amazing but it lacks the camera options
8mpx which it supports is OK for now, but what about 720p recording which we all waited for so long, and also i take all my photos at 6mpx with 16:9 aspect ratio, that is also missing, i have little use from 8mpx 4:3...
this is not intended to dissrespect the devs in any way, but pleeeease, if there's any possibility, concentrate a little more on the camera, just a wee bit more
You guys wont get full camera function until the bootloader is cracked plain and simple. Custom kernels have to be created and until the bootloader has cracked there aint no chance of installing them. I myself am using a stripped dwn version of the latest SE firmware with all the tweaks that are available including jit v2, custom build.prop and all the sys.cl tweaks. also the modded camera app which has been modded to improve quality and bitrate of video upto 6000kbps. Im pretty happy with it, and yes it would be great to have a 2.2 rom with a fully working camera but as ive sed bfore until bootloader is cracked than u aint got much choice.
Yeah, this bootloader lock is insane. Keeps devs away from real solutions to simple problems. I also chose X10 because it was the only 8.1 mpixel phone available with Android. Now, it seems we're going to get even better cameras from other manufacturers. Cameras that sure will have the silly capability of recognizing when to turn on the LED, for example.
I'm disappointed in many ways about Sony Ericsson. The only thing I know right now is that they won't have my money anymore.
bbtheory said:
To the devs, get the camera working and you will truly have something special. Until then, these ROMS are all incomplete.
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Click to collapse
Ohhh.... I bet they didn't know everyone is waiting for full camera functionality... But now that you asked they will get right on it!!
Mods, please delete this useless post....
Apoena - You're right.. it is a useless post.. but the point is accurate.. I'm bored of seeing part finished ROM's being released.. 1 complete ROM would wipe 95% of all of the others aside. It's frustrating. (incidentally, I've not installed any of the custom ROMs for exactly that reason.. I get enough from rooting and tweaking.. at least until there's a complete, commercially stable ROM available.)
im_iceman said:
Apoena - You're right.. it is a useless post.. but the point is accurate.. I'm bored of seeing part finished ROM's being released.. 1 complete ROM would wipe 95% of all of the others aside. It's frustrating. (incidentally, I've not installed any of the custom ROMs for exactly that reason.. I get enough from rooting and tweaking.. at least until there's a complete, commercially stable ROM available.)
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Exactly! What is the point of just releasing a new Rom, they all have the same issue with camera, but the only thing different is the look of the UI.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
How many of you free loaders donated to any of the Devs ?
Apoena said:
Ohhh.... I bet they didn't know everyone is waiting for full camera functionality... But now that you asked they will get right on it!!
Mods, please delete this useless post....
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Click to collapse
IF they know everyone is waiting for full camera functionality then why do they keep releasing ROM after ROM without it??? I'd rather have one working Cyanogen than three themed ones all with the same problems. It seems the X10 devs all have some sort of ADD, they can't continue to improve one ROM and make it truly spectacular.
The bootloader discussion is most relevant. I agree that cracking it is the key to developing better things for the phone.
WoW...
As a member for almost a year I have remained almost silent, yet have closely followed the software development for this fine piece of hardware, thread by thread, reading and learning a great deal along the way.
The time, effort, and patience of our extremely talented Devs never ceases to amaze and inspire me. I have choices, possibilities, and am able to use the X10
to a much greater potential than would have ever been possible without them.
I have GRATITUDE..... ya read that word. Oh wait, words are wasted on you who can't or won't do what's required to function within this community. Things like... well.... READING ! Then maybe learn something so as to participate in your own development. Seek and find, it works believe me.
Next, maybe shed that sense of entitlement that.... for godsake ... those who
have been around and LISTENED (read) know the difference, know and understand the frikkin camera issue, know where these 'Firmwares' have come from, their limitations, and the skills to develop them, and don't expect miracles or anything overnight.
Seriously, every release is a gift, whether a 'ROM', Custom Firmware, Theme, App.... you name it. What else is a gift ? . . . The help, responses, answers to
your questions.... all FREE !
--Just couldn't keep quiet today
bbtheory said:
IF they know everyone is waiting for full camera functionality then why do they keep releasing ROM after ROM without it??? I'd rather have one working Cyanogen than three themed ones all with the same problems. It seems the X10 devs all have some sort of ADD, they can't continue to improve one ROM and make it truly spectacular.
The bootloader discussion is most relevant. I agree that cracking it is the key to developing better things for the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People who just take already available roms to theme it, tweak it and add some apps on top of it usually don't have the ability to do what J&Z are doing. So don't expect those "Devs" to come up with a working camcorder.
The Devs that you might be able to expect a camcorder from is probably J&Z or T:
J is working on CM7
Z is working on Free X10 2.2
Are they spamming the forum with a bunch of half finished ROM? I don't think so.
unfortunately for you, the camera is not considered a high priorty on a smartphone. the main things are constant internet/data access, emails, phone, etc. playing music is nice and taking pics is cool, but its not the basis of a smartphone.
maybe you should have bought a different phone?
not tryin to be harsh, but i have read from several devs that camera is always a lower priority for them.
tim.
mrtim123 said:
unfortunately for you, the camera is not considered a high priorty on a smartphone. the main things are constant internet/data access, emails, phone, etc. playing music is nice and taking pics is cool, but its not the basis of a smartphone.
maybe you should have bought a different phone?
not tryin to be harsh, but i have read from several devs that camera is always a lower priority for them.
tim.
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Click to collapse
You're out of your mind. The x10 had the best camera on the market when it came out, why would someone looking for a good camera smartphone choose something other then the best?
superbrowndude said:
How many of you free loaders donated to any of the Devs ?
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What's that got anything to do with the argument? This is a free community and we are talking about an open source project. Also I'm not saying that the devs aren't working hard, but how about working together and trying to achieve something worthwhile. Rather than releasing one pointless Rom after another.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
jayman1986 said:
What's that got anything to do with the argument? This is a free community and we are talking about an open source project. Also I'm not saying that the devs aren't working hard, but how about working together and trying to achieve something worthwhile. Rather than releasing one pointless Rom after another.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
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Incentive.
The developers are working their ROM's and themes out of their own sense of desire/wonder/interest. If they think they've done something that may be of interest to others they share it. If there's enough interest/donations maybe they'll respond by trying to develop requested features within what they are capable of with the tools currently given.
Clearly there's an audience for it. And for everyone the camera isn't the main sticking point.
"Something worthwhile" is your attempt at belittling their efforts? Its a horrible thing to do. Like music you may not like, others do. Learn to code instead of these "pointless" complaints.
There was a thread posted over in the Q&A section that I think was rather overlooked, and really deserves more attention. Since the Note is supposed to be the best of both worlds (tablet and phone) then it stands to reason that a hybrid ROM for the Note would make the most sense!
Even now that we have ICS on the Note, it's still (disappointingly) just a really big phone with an S-Pen. What would really push it over the edge, as far as the cool factor is concerned, is for someone with the skills and know-how to figure out a way to make a decent hybrid ROM for the Note.
We could merge UI elements of both the phone and tablet interfaces, and also have it such that some apps run in a phone interface, while others in a tablet mode etc. Also, having the tablet navigation buttons on the bottom would be nice for using the S-Pen (because it doesn't work on the capacitive buttons).
What are your thoughts everyone?
Jade Eyed Wolf said:
There was a thread posted over in the Q&A section that I think was rather overlooked, and really deserves more attention. Since the Note is supposed to be the best of both worlds (tablet and phone) then it stands to reason that a hybrid ROM for the Note would make the most sense!
Even now that we have ICS on the Note, it's still (disappointingly) just a really big phone with an S-Pen. What would really push it over the edge, as far as the cool factor is concerned, is for someone with the skills and know-how to figure out a way to make a decent hybrid ROM for the Note.
We could merge UI elements of both the phone and tablet interfaces, and also have it such that some apps run in a phone interface, while others in a tablet mode etc. Also, having the tablet navigation buttons on the bottom would be nice for using the S-Pen (because it doesn't work on the capacitive buttons).
What are your thoughts everyone?
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There is somthing called AOSP/AOKP. You can go into tablet mode just by changing DPI. Navigation buttons are there
joyo22 said:
There is somthing called AOSP/AOKP. You can go into tablet mode just by changing DPI. Navigation buttons are there
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Thanks. I know this already... I'm not talking about AOS/KP.
I know I have mentioned this a number of times, and it still hasn't yet caught on. Why? Idk...
But, to clarify, I am not necessarily talking about an AOSP/AOKP build here (I actually kinda like some of the TouchWiz flare).
Hell, even if someone were to take some cues from the 7.7 and tweaked the Note's framework to include things like the min-app tray and little things like that, that would be awesome!
Jade Eyed Wolf said:
I know I have mentioned this a number of times, and it still hasn't yet caught on. Why? Idk...
But, to clarify, I am not necessarily talking about an AOSP/AOKP build here (I actually kinda like some of the TouchWiz flare).
Hell, even if someone were to take some cues from the 7.7 and tweaked the Note's framework to include things like the min-app tray and little things like that, that would be awesome!
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imilka already said he's working with PA team to port it over, so we just need some patience
About including some of the 7.7 features to Note I don't think there will ever be a developer that is willing to invest the huge amount of time and resources in incorporating AOSP/AOKP with 7.7 stock features and I have no idea if that's even possible :/
matius44 said:
imilka already said he's working with PA team to port it over, so we just need some patience
About including some of the 7.7 features to Note I don't think there will ever be a developer that is willing to invest the huge amount of time and resources in incorporating AOSP/AOKP with 7.7 stock features and I have no idea if that's even possible :/
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I guess this all boils down to the same question I'm sure a lot of us have been asking for a while: How long will it be before we have a fully functioning AOSP/AOKP build, where everything (and I mean everything!) works? (MHL, OTG, the button on the S-Pen, full hardware video acceleration, etc etc etc...)
What's 7.7 ?
Anyway, I would love a ROM that can "run" TW framework, so that everything works as on the official ROM, and that allows tablet mode. After trying tablet mode, I don't want to go back to smartphone interface, at the same time I would like sock FM Radio, stock camera, stock calendar, etc. I've seen the Galaxy Tab 7" 2 recently, it was ICS and I don't know what TW version it was but I'd love that on my note.
I like the idea.
Haven't tried tablet in a while....but isn't the font awfully hard to read? I (I'm old!)...And...
I use portrait most of the time....doesn't tablet force a reach to the top. of the device for most app functions?
I'd love to use tablet mode now but those made functionality tough for me.
Thanks
matius44 said:
imilka already said he's working with PA team to port it over, so we just need some patience
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thats going to cause a HUGE storm of drama if he does that, they dont want people using their code till they release it
check dagr8's i717 thread *it was cleaned more then our aosp thread was after all the drama
i already had PA running but kept it to myself cause they asked me to after i msged them asking if i could give it to n7000 users
JamieD81 said:
thats going to cause a HUGE storm of drama if he does that, they dont want people using their code till they release it
check dagr8's i717 thread *it was cleaned more then our aosp thread was after all the drama
i already had PA running but kept it to myself cause they asked me to after i msged them asking if i could give it to n7000 users
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No there were a thread here about it and moles said they don't mind it ported but just want a dev who can work with them, so imilka PMed him couple of days back and then said they are working on a port
matius44 said:
No there were a thread here about it and moles said they don't mind it ported but just want a dev who can work with them, so imilka PMed him couple of days back and then said they are working on a port
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guess i msged the wrong guy from PA a few days back then i got nothing but a huge NO from them
but i talked to imilka earlier we did infact msg 2 different members, he got the decent guy i got the @#&@!
Firstly, I'm NOT a Developer - I want to make that very clear
I have been trying to get data/info about what ever happened to the Original Samsung Galaxy S4 'TouchWiz'
Camera feature/ability to be able to 'Simultaneously' record videos (not talking about taking pictures here)
with both the front and back cameras on the phone.
This question has been asked before by a very very very small number of people on the net including in XDA
developers forums, However these questions only have been asked on forums relating to NEXUS phones/devices.
When i originally bought my S4 (second hand) i used the recording feature, i absolutely love it, i think it it brilliant,
it is one of the reasons why the S4 has such appeal for me.
I later upgraded to CyanogenMod, because of privacy concerns relating to Samsungs Involvement with the NSA over
their KNOX security.
The OS seemed fine to me, but this security concern was the basis of WHY i moved over to CyanogenMod.
Then i found out, that CyanogenMod does NOT Support the Dual Camera feature.
I contacted Samsung, and they told me that the Camera app was not really an app at all, but was in fact part of the OS itself.
But remember, the Genuine Samsung Galaxy is actually model number GT-i9500, which uses the Exynos Chip, unlike the Samsung Galaxy S4
variant known as the S4 LTE GT-i9505, which uses the Qualcom Chipset.
It has also been said by some XDA developers, that Samsungs 'TouchWiz' is not Open Source, it is Closed Source.
Well belonging to the company, this is no surprise, I'll also bet that it is probably Patented as well.
I say, so what ?, CyanogenMod does NOT need the original samsung 'TouchWiz' code, it only needs to know the HardwareSpecs of the Qualcom
Chip, then programming/developing can begin.
The S4 is already Superceeded by the S5 (and any possible variant(s) of that), i feel that the GT-i9505 is getting left out of the picture.
Are there any answers to this mystery ???
The7Suggester said:
Firstly, I'm NOT a Developer - I want to make that very clear
I have been trying to get data/info about what ever happened to the Original Samsung Galaxy S4 'TouchWiz'
Camera feature/ability to be able to 'Simultaneously' record videos (not talking about taking pictures here)
with both the front and back cameras on the phone.
This question has been asked before by a very very very small number of people on the net including in XDA
developers forums, However these questions only have been asked on forums relating to NEXUS phones/devices.
When i originally bought my S4 (second hand) i used the recording feature, i absolutely love it, i think it it brilliant,
it is one of the reasons why the S4 has such appeal for me.
I later upgraded to CyanogenMod, because of privacy concerns relating to Samsungs Involvement with the NSA over
their KNOX security.
The OS seemed fine to me, but this security concern was the basis of WHY i moved over to CyanogenMod.
Then i found out, that CyanogenMod does NOT Support the Dual Camera feature.
I contacted Samsung, and they told me that the Camera app was not really an app at all, but was in fact part of the OS itself.
But remember, the Genuine Samsung Galaxy is actually model number GT-i9500, which uses the Exynos Chip, unlike the Samsung Galaxy S4
variant known as the S4 LTE GT-i9505, which uses the Qualcom Chipset.
It has also been said by some XDA developers, that Samsungs 'TouchWiz' is not Open Source, it is Closed Source.
Well belonging to the company, this is no surprise, I'll also bet that it is probably Patented as well.
I say, so what ?, CyanogenMod does NOT need the original samsung 'TouchWiz' code, it only needs to know the HardwareSpecs of the Qualcom
Chip, then programming/developing can begin.
The S4 is already Superceeded by the S5 (and any possible variant(s) of that), i feel that the GT-i9505 is getting left out of the picture.
Are there any answers to this mystery ???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What mystery? That Cyanogen doesn't offer the ability to record with the front and back cameras at the same time?
That's not a mystery. It's that only 1 person out of a million would ever want to do that so no one is devoting their development time to integrating that feature.
Dual Camera Support - i9505
Skipjacks said:
What mystery? That Cyanogen doesn't offer the ability to record with the front and back cameras at the same time?
That's not a mystery. It's that only 1 person out of a million would ever want to do that so no one is devoting their development time to integrating that feature.
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I'm afraid I'm not completely sure i know what you mean?
Do you mean that there would only be 1 Developer out of a million who would use this feature, and therefore no support would be actioned for this ?
OR do you mean that in your opinion there are hardly any people who would own a phone like the S4 that would want to use this feature.
Why would anyone *NOT* want to do this. It's fun for one thing.
Maybe I've made a mistake but, i thought that one of the things that XDA devs were all about, was trying to fix or patch areas on OS's
where the mainstream had overlooked, and especially about importing and bringing new features about to free OS's such as CyanogenMod.
Could you please clarify i bit more carefully about, this.
Skipjacks said:
What mystery? That Cyanogen doesn't offer the ability to record with the front and back cameras at the same time?
That's not a mystery. It's that only 1 person out of a million would ever want to do that so no one is devoting their development time to integrating that feature.
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You are pretty close minded even though I don't use that feature myself.
V-bloggers love using that feature.
But I do agree with you. AOSP is suppose to provide a clean experience
Dual Camera Support - i9505
Thank you for backing me up on this issue
MrAndroid12 said:
You are pretty close minded even though I don't use that feature myself.
V-bloggers love using that feature.
But I do agree with you. AOSP is suppose to provide a clean experience
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The insults aren't needed.
I stated a fact. There is not enough desire for this feature for developers to devote time to coding it instead of coding something else that is more heavily requested.
If there were a strong desire for it developers would be looking to fill that need.
But there are alternate methods to getting this feature...like using touchwiz. So there aren't many devs who want to spend time coding a little used feature that is already available elsewhere. Especially one they don't intend to use themselves, and not when there are more popular mods that people are asking for in droves like gps fixes and updated kernels and theme manager fixes.
Keep insulting me if you like for telling it like it is. But this is the simple reason why this feature hasnt been widely developed.
If the OP really wants to do this on an AOSP rom, he can learn how to develop. Many many many people here learned how to code specifically to create a feature they wanted.
Skipjacks said:
The insults aren't needed.
I stated a fact. There is not enough desire for this feature for developers to devote time to coding it instead of coding something else that is more heavily requested.
If there were a strong desire for it developers would be looking to fill that need.
But there are alternate methods to getting this feature...like using touchwiz. So there aren't many devs who want to spend time coding a little used feature that is already available elsewhere. Especially one they don't intend to use themselves, and not when there are more popular mods that people are asking for in droves like gps fixes and updated kernels and theme manager fixes.
Keep insulting me if you like for telling it like it is. But this is the simple reason why this feature hasnt been widely developed.
If the OP really wants to do this on an AOSP rom, he can learn how to develop. Many many many people here learned how to code specifically to create a feature they wanted.
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I didn't really back him up or said you were an insult.
I said that AOSP rooms should be free of non Google modifications.
But I am just telling you again that there are probably more than a million in one desiring for that feature because some people like to v-blog
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
Skipjacks said:
The insults aren't needed.
I stated a fact. There is not enough desire for this feature for developers to devote time to coding it instead of coding something else that is more heavily requested.
If there were a strong desire for it developers would be looking to fill that need.
But there are alternate methods to getting this feature...like using touchwiz. So there aren't many devs who want to spend time coding a little used feature that is already available elsewhere. Especially one they don't intend to use themselves, and not when there are more popular mods that people are asking for in droves like gps fixes and updated kernels and theme manager fixes.
Keep insulting me if you like for telling it like it is. But this is the simple reason why this feature hasnt been widely developed.
If the OP really wants to do this on an AOSP rom, he can learn how to develop. Many many many people here learned how to code specifically to create a feature they wanted.
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Click to collapse
OK, Fine your point is now made.
But just remember, at least on the Samsung series of phones, the S1, S2, and S3 did NOT have this feature, the S4 was the first phone by Samsung to have this feature, and the S5 is now officially the 'Flag Ship' phone for Samsung.
As with continued development of multi-media standards, i.e. 4K for a start now available on the Sony Experia Z2 phone for one,
the demand for ever increasing video recording features and abilities will continue to increase, so it would not really surprise me, if later
on this feature were to start appearing in later makes & models of phones down the line.
You really have to consider what % of people will even know or find out about free AOSP OS's like CyanogenMod, for one thing,
and even then what % of those people will even upgrade to such OS's.
The demand for Dual Camera Video Recording will probably go up and up amongst the general populace of phone users.
Right now the demands are other things, things like theme development, bug fixes, etc.
Having ones 'foot-in-the-door-now' so to speak, could be a worth while investment for later on.
Sure the demand NOW is very little, but if devs wait till later on to do this, then when the demands get bigger (presumably with newer
models of phones), devs will be flooded with all sorts of bugs to have to sort out on all the different OS types and versions,
- while the demand is great -, thats a lot of pressure on devs, which would also slow down development in other areas.
I think now, i have made my point. While this does sound purely like an argument just so i can gain something for myself - it's for ALL other people. I dont and cannot claim to represent what people in the world who own phones want. But logic sais that if i want this, then there are lots of people in the world who want this, just because XDA devs have not heard of such people, does not mean that they dont exist.
Besides I'm talking about being able to record video with 2 cameras at the same time, is that really such a grand feat ?,
Hell the XPrivacy program i use that XDA devs made was a Major Feat, Dual Camera support cant be THAT difficult to implement.
As for your other comments:
"But there are alternate methods to getting this feature...like using touchwiz." - well i think i already explained why i went to CyanogenMod in
the first place.
"If the OP really wants to do this on an AOSP rom, he can learn how to develop. Many many many people here learned how to code specifically to create a feature they wanted.[/QUOTE]" - Actually when i was a kid i programmed BASIC, but i have brain damage due to seizures affecting
my long and short term memory, so sorry, your claim that any OP can program is incorrect.
My Point Made
Your point made? I still don't even know what your point is.
Look, I get that this feature is important to you. But that does not mean that it's important to a large percentage of everyone else.
The Samsung AirView features are far more requested to be ported to AOSP roms but even then the demand is so small compared to the demand for things like floating windows, hover notifications, theming fixes, Knox workarounds, etc. No devs even want to tackle the AirView features, which get asked about at least once a week on the various S4 forums, because there isn't enough demand. And there's even less demand for simultaneous duel camera use.
In the years I've been here this is the first time I've ever heard of a request for simultaneous duel camera use. And I read nearly every post here nearly every day. So while I appreciate that this feature is something that's really important to you, it's just not in high demand.
And there is zero incentive to develop it now before it becomes high demand later. There's no money to be made in rom modding. If people suddenly want this feature down the road it'll get developed then. There is no early investment incentive in this. Phone modding is a hobby. Like fishing or model trains. We do it for fun, not for money.
As for the difficulty of simultaneous duel camera use...yes, it could be THAT hard to develop. It's not just an app. Something like this that controls 2 pieces of hardware at once would have to be coded into the kernel. And while kernel tweaking is fairly common, completely new kernel features are scarce because it's a very limited number of people who can do it. (And the stock kernel is closed source so it's not like the code can just be lifted from the Samsung version)
Second, once you had the ability to do it in the kernel you'd need an app that could take advantage of the support. You couldn't use the stock camera. You'd need something new. So that's a second layer of development. So this isn't a quick 1 hour project. It's a lot of hours that someone would have to put into it, for something that isn't being asked for very much.
This is the reason it's not being done yet. Don't be mad at me for giving you the honest answer.
Skipjacks said:
Your point made? I still don't even know what your point is.
Look, I get that this feature is important to you. But that does not mean that it's important to a large percentage of everyone else.
The Samsung AirView features are far more requested to be ported to AOSP roms but even then the demand is so small compared to the demand for things like floating windows, hover notifications, theming fixes, Knox workarounds, etc. No devs even want to tackle the AirView features, which get asked about at least once a week on the various S4 forums, because there isn't enough demand. And there's even less demand for simultaneous duel camera use.
In the years I've been here this is the first time I've ever heard of a request for simultaneous duel camera use. And I read nearly every post here nearly every day. So while I appreciate that this feature is something that's really important to you, it's just not in high demand.
And there is zero incentive to develop it now before it becomes high demand later. There's no money to be made in rom modding. If people suddenly want this feature down the road it'll get developed then. There is no early investment incentive in this. Phone modding is a hobby. Like fishing or model trains. We do it for fun, not for money.
As for the difficulty of simultaneous duel camera use...yes, it could be THAT hard to develop. It's not just an app. Something like this that controls 2 pieces of hardware at once would have to be coded into the kernel. And while kernel tweaking is fairly common, completely new kernel features are scarce because it's a very limited number of people who can do it. (And the stock kernel is closed source so it's not like the code can just be lifted from the Samsung version)
Second, once you had the ability to do it in the kernel you'd need an app that could take advantage of the support. You couldn't use the stock camera. You'd need something new. So that's a second layer of development. So this isn't a quick 1 hour project. It's a lot of hours that someone would have to put into it, for something that isn't being asked for very much.
This is the reason it's not being done yet. Don't be mad at me for giving you the honest answer.
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"And there is zero incentive to develop it now before it becomes high demand later. There's no money to be made in rom modding. If people suddenly want this feature down the road it'll get developed then. There is no early investment incentive in this. Phone modding is a hobby. Like fishing or model trains. We do it for fun, not for money."
Well i think that everything i said above are _VALID POINTS_ points i would have though would have been important enough for XDA devs to consider.
It seems to me that there simply is TOO MUCH demand on the XDA devs in general.
"There's no money to be made in rom modding."
As for 'INVESTMENTS' - I did _NOT_ mention business or money making at all - I meant your investment in coding/programming, your time put into work.
"There is no early investment incentive in this. Phone modding is a hobby. Like fishing or model trains. We do it for fun, not for money."
Well, i guess i will have to turn to people i CAN pay money to, to make it more 'worthwhile' for minority's such as myself, if not a dev.
Ben.
The7Suggester said:
Well, i guess i will have to turn to people i CAN pay money to, to make it more 'worthwhile' for minority's such as myself, if not a dev.
Ben.
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Nothing wrong with that! Try to find a group of likeminded people who want this on AOSP and put a bounty together to offer to a developer.