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Dear all, I found this in another forum and please let the number grow!
http://www.petitiononline.com/a6262/petition.html
I would sign this if it didn't have the fact that they are obligated to provide the update, they have no obligation at all as the product in its current form with 1.5 is fit for the purpose. The 2.1 update is to provide extras in a way and not a firmware update its a complete os change. (well kind of)
I also would like the update asap but to the amount of people on probably all the development sites they are fully out numbered by the users who dont mess with the software 50 fold for the hero so HTC dont really care tbh.. and i know that for a fact
Adding new functionality to an old phone that will hamper the sales of other new 2.1 phones is the conflict any company would undergo as the projected sales are most definitely effected by an update like this!!
Defo sucks... shame HTC cant just release the sources and the pressure to bring out the rom wouldn't be as great.
@anarchyUK: I disagree that HTC aren't obligated to provide Android 2.1 for the Hero.
Had they NOT made public announcements, confirmed 'rumours' to be true in reply to probably hundreds of bloggers' queries (email or otherwise) and even stated expected release dates for the Hero 2.1 update, then one could argue that they are not obligated to provide it. However after making so many promises to Hero users and still not being able to deliver is downright pathetic of them. Nobody forced them to say 1.6 was coming to the Hero, or 2.0 for that matter, OR 2.1. They're the ones who made the announcements, and they're the ones who are obligated to stick to their word now.
I for one am ticked off to the point of never supporting them by getting an HTC phone again. It's even more infuriating when you consider that 1) the Legend has most exactly the same hardware WITH 2.1 support, and 2) independent developers have managed to put together reasonably stable 2.1 builds for both the GSM and CDMA Hero, all WITHOUT access to Hero-specific drivers/kernels or what not (I'm not sure exactly what it is modding devs need to perfect their builds, but you get the idea) that HTC have hidden away for God knows what; doesn't seem like its doing them any good, all they do is keep pushing back their release dates.
So HTC can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. I'm not signing the petition because even if they released the update in the next hour, I will not be getting it out of principle (more stubborn-ness though). I'd rather support the hard-working independent devs because at least they give a **** about Android, and not about how much money they'll get.
[/rant]
They are obligated to provide a new firmware because 1.5 is BUGGY!
Nonsense.
I agree that I would love to have the 2.x update yesterday but the current 1.5 is rock solid. It never crashed on me and works like a charm.
The only reason I would like the 2.1 update is because of the improvements on the bluetooth stack and the improved voice functions.
i think they delayed 2.1 release cause they haver moved most of there developers to there new devices and the team working on the hero update is probably very small now, if anyone has noticed how buggy these 2.1 leaks are with battery drainage camera color errors, the slowness, i think its the right move for them to delay the release of the update until these issues are sorted
They are not obliged in any way to provide 2.1 because 1.5 is buggy, they are obliged to make every attempt to fix the bugs within 1.5. (uk sales of good act and eu regulations) And for the other responses saying they have announced it and that makes them obliged? are we in make believe land now?
The update is good will from HTC if anything. I think HTC releasing this when they do is a very different thing compared to other companies like nokia who would rather release 10 other variants of a phone instead of upgrading a s60 3rd edition to a 5th edition...
Considering the Hero I have is on a 24 month contract I dont really think banging on about it like people do is really worth the bother. My point being a petition is pointless.
If they're delaying it, they're delaying it for a good reason.
@anarchyuk: From your second post I got the feeling you are talking about 'obligated' in the legal sense...FYI I was talking about them making good on their word. I do realize that they are not legally obliged to provide the 2.1 or other updates, but like I said, we didn't ask for it first, they said they'd release it and got everyone's hopes up. No fault of the users to complain if HTC cannot deliver.
shahid.malik said:
From your second post I got the feeling you are talking about 'obligated' in the legal sense...FYI I was talking about them making good on their word. I do realize that they are not legally obliged to provide the 2.1 or other updates, but like I said, we didn't ask for it first, they said they'd release it and got everyone's hopes up. No fault of the users to complain if HTC cannot deliver.
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I agree in the loyalty sense they are obliged to deliver a promise, but that wasn't aimed at your post it was mainly at the "because 1.5 is buggy they have to release 2.1" train of thought.
who knows what the main reasons behind the delay are but I can guarantee it has some link to money!!
Hopefully the development section for the X10 will kick into gear and then it is bye bye to HTC phones for the time being for me!
I'd rather wait an extra month or two and get a stable, finished product than get a hastened, buggy release, another wave of whining about how evil HTC are to release a buggy software. Some people cannot be pleased.
Sent from my Hero using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
kyods said:
I'd rather wait an extra month or two and get a stable, finished product than get a hastened, buggy release, another wave of whining about how evil HTC are to release a buggy software. Some people cannot be pleased.
Sent from my Hero using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
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Lets be clear here, HTC have released 2.1 with Sense for the Legend, and internally this device is almost identical to the Hero. Therefore, we can be reasonably certain that the reason for the delay is not because it is unfinished or buggy - at least no more so than the version they've shipped on the Legend.
IMHO, it is a marketing decision pure and simple, so that it doesn't affect early sales of the Legend and Desire. They did much the same when they released Sense UI for the Magic some months after the Hero had shipped, despite the fact that the hardware was again very similar.
Regards,
Dave
It's certainly possible, however if the hardware wasn't an issue here, we'd already have plenty of fully-working ROMs ported from the Legend. All the 2.1 ROMs I've tried so far, however, are more or less buggy, which makes me believe the situation is not that simple as it would seem. Still, I'm not a programmer, so it's just a wild guess of mine.
kyods said:
It's certainly possible, however if the hardware wasn't an issue here, we'd already have plenty of fully-working ROMs ported from the Legend. All the 2.1 ROMs I've tried so far, however, are more or less buggy, which makes me believe the situation is not that simple as it would seem. Still, I'm not a programmer, so it's just a wild guess of mine.
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I didn't say that the hardware wasn't an issue - I said that the Legends hardware is almost identical to the Hero's. If HTC had already released the
kernel source for Legend, I'd wager that porting it to the Hero would be comparatively trivial (especially when compared to manually updating 2.6.27 to 2.6.29!) and we'd have fully working ROMs in well less than 2 months!
That being said, I find the latest Villain ROMs (5.2/5.3) are pretty much feature complete and the only issue I have with them is the less than stellar battery life (which I'm sure is a kernel issue).
Regards,
Dave
foxmeister said:
That being said, I find the latest Villain ROMs (5.2/5.3) are pretty much feature complete and the only issue I have with them is the less than stellar battery life (which I'm sure is a kernel issue).
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My feelings exactly. That's why I'm not bothered much with HTC's official ROM being delayed.
maybe the battery issue is the reason it hasnt been released
Looking from a business perspective on petitions,all this will do is annoy HTC to the point where they will say "well,**** you all then!we work our asses off to give them a brilliant update and they try to force us into releasing it sooner.They can stay on 1.5 and we will concentrate on the newest models"
Everyone is getting agitated because they stupidly believed rumours,now they have supposedly said June.until I see on Twitter they have released it,I wont believe any new threads on the 2.1 update!
Basically a petition will just piss them off.How much would you like some people telling you to work fastr?
kyods said:
It's certainly possible, however if the hardware wasn't an issue here, we'd already have plenty of fully-working ROMs ported from the Legend. All the 2.1 ROMs I've tried so far, however, are more or less buggy, which makes me believe the situation is not that simple as it would seem. Still, I'm not a programmer, so it's just a wild guess of mine.
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You're under a misapprehension here. Current custom 2.1 roms aren't buggy because the leaked htc code is buggy. They're buggy because the custom 2.1 rom builders don't yet have access to the 2.1 gsm Hero kernel. All they have to go on are the old kernel & kernels for alternative hardware. It is obvious, more than likely, why 2.1 hasn't been released yet.
Threads about this are boring enough at the best of times, but when posters back up false claims with unsound arguments it dilutes what little value the thread might have had remaining.
Threads about this are boring enough at the best of times, but when posters back up false claims with unsound arguments it dilutes what little value the thread might have had remaining.
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...word!
THAT won't happen. I don't even think HTC will read those petitions, no stakeholder cares about them so it's just wasted time. And thinking that such a petition could cause HTC to react childish as you said is just not realistic. They are in it for the money, and they need happy customers. Thats why we will get 2.1 at some point.
bonesy said:
Looking from a business perspective on petitions,all this will do is annoy HTC to the point where they will say "well,**** you all then!we work our asses off to give them a brilliant update and they try to force us into releasing it sooner.They can stay on 1.5 and we will concentrate on the newest models"
Everyone is getting agitated because they stupidly believed rumours,now they have supposedly said June.until I see on Twitter they have released it,I wont believe any new threads on the 2.1 update!
Basically a petition will just piss them off.How much would you like some people telling you to work fastr?
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A lot seems to have been written about the 2.1 Rom "delay". I've posted a version of this elsewhere but think it's worth simplifying here and expanding somewhat because who knows, maybe some who bothers the care at HTC takes a look at this forum? Most of us now are simply waiting it out for HTC to show some respect to existing customers and finally release the 2.1 ROM we know they all have waiting. Maybe when it comes it will be too little, too late.
It's all quite simple:
HTC are deliberately withholding the 2.1 ROM. A LOT of us here and elsewhere KNOW this. Not guessing, not speculating. It's obvious. We KNOW.
It is being withheld not for technical reasons but specifically because of the Legend.
Releasing a 2.1 Rom would NOT hurt Legend sales because those with Heroes are mainly in contracts AND those without would want the newer hardware anyway - doesn't get simpler than that: HTC logic is deeply flawed although superficially understandable. From a company like HTC however, it's a bit silly and the consequences are irritating to say the least.
HTC is suffering from fear based greed as many, many tech electronics companies are (inc Apple) and forget a simple business rule of keeping existing customers happy. This is like a widespread disease amongst the big business community and corporate cultures. Simple, basic business principles like keeping existing customers happy are pushed aside "as if" it wont have any consequences by short sighted, fearful decision makers.
The 1.5 ROM is fine - perfectly acceptable in my opinion.
MOST are aware that HTC doesn't HAVE TO give us a 2.1 ROM - they don't have to give us any updates at all unless there are faults. We get it. We get it. We understand this point.
The 2.1 custom ROMS available here of XDA (and I've tried a LOT of them) are too buggy and too slow for general use. All of them. The recent VillainROM 5.3 for e.g. has a listed issue with voice mail notifications. That's a pretty integral feature! This does not detract the respect and appreciation I think most of us have for the effort put into them.
The 2.1 custom ROM are a great taste of the new functionality and tweaks throughout but are bad in the sense that it's HARD going back to the faster, stable 1.5 ROMs with "less good" features despite the custom 2.1 problems.
Too many are unhappy/feel let down with HTC cynically delaying the 2.1 ROM.
HTC are forgetting that android users and their customers in particular are generally going to be more "techy" and generally going to want the latest version of Android. In other words, they are fools if the think they can deal with their Android handset customers in the same way as their more "consumer" based handset customers. We notice what's out. We notice updates. And boy are we noticing the missing 2.1 update.
I for one despite rationalising and "understanding" HTC's "reasons" for delaying the 2.1 update on the Hero can't shake off the feeling that I'm missing out. There are more important things in life, sure, but I use my phone everyday and paid and continue to pay a lot for it. I feel like they're taking me for a mug. I'll do some research first but it looks like by the time I come to upgrade, i'll drop HTC for this and get a Samsung galaxy S when they're out.
I suppose HTC will have to learn the hard way - mess existing customers about : watch existing customers move to competitors. Business doesn't get simpler than that. HTC won't feel it, even notice it, but the effect is going to be very real and very subtle. If I was a tech company with a new focus of marketing myself directly to my customers, I'd think twice about a short term strategy for gaining adoption and consider such seemingly subtle factors as "will the Hero customers feel pis*ed off if we delay the 2.1 update for months on end?"
Oh, by the way - I'm not "waiting" anymore. Call it a personality deficiency - whatever - but I was checking back here a lot in and around the times the rumours said the official update would be made available. I realise now how much of a waste of time that is. I'm not checking back nearly as often. I recommend others here do the same and "let go" of the whole 2.1 ROM waiting. For your own sake. Oh, and "let go" of HTC while you're at it. Maybe then they'll take notice. Will take a few months the bear fruit - but if all Hero users go to another manufacturer for their Android fix, in about 6 months, maybe at HTC they'll be saying "wow, maybe getting that 2.1 ROM out to Hero users consistently was more important than we thought"? Doubt it, but it's possible.
alsheron said:
HTC are deliberately withholding the 2.1 ROM. A LOT of us here and elsewhere KNOW this. Not guessing, not speculating. It's obvious. We KNOW.
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interesting theory, do you have any prove for that?
Proof
hkr said:
interesting theory, do you have any prove for that?
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As my "theory" isn't a legal case, I don't need that most dubiously elusive of things called "proof" so commonly demanded in order to dismiss common sense reasoning.
My brain and the common sense it contains leads me to believe what I said. I'm far from the only one. If HTC are not deliberately witholding the 2.1 their reasons elude me as not only is the Legend hugely similar but even development here have been able to put together almost passable ROMs with the leftovers from currently released resources and some leaks. Common sense. It ain't proof, but I, like many others with the Hero only need to feel a certain way before I start to get irritated. No proof required. The restlessness and dissatisfaction with HTC from Hero users specifically is very real and if its percieved to be true then in practical terms, it is.
hkr said:
interesting theory, do you have any prove for that?
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Well, for one, they have been promising, announcing and delaying this update ever since, but there were only sparse official (not rumored) justifications for that.
So we have constant delays (without reasons given) but at the same time the new Android 2.1 version released on the Legend, the hardware of which is very similar to the Hero's.
It's not rocket science, really. To be honest the delay to June sounds fishy too. Apparently there will be two updates... a preparatory one and then the one to 2.1 later. Why is that? I mean... we are wiping and replacing the system with a new rom, why would there be a preparation-rom necessary.
So I don't actually believe this rumor (and yes, it's only a rumor... just like all the other details... OTA, non-OTA blabla)... but think about it. Why does HTC already know how exactly they will deploy the update, when they claim to be not done with it?
alsheron said:
As my "theory" isn't a legal case, I don't need that most dubiously elusive of things called "proof" so commonly demanded in order to dismiss common sense reasoning.
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So if you "KNOW" that HTC are deliberately delaying the update, why don't you tell us how you know?
The only way you could "KNOW" that would be if you had seen the update, and you aren't claiming that.
So yes you are speculating, as you don't "KNOW", what if they have a show stopping issue with bluetooth? Or something similar that they don't want to release with bugs?
daniel_owen_uk said:
So if you "KNOW" that HTC are deliberately delaying the update, why don't you tell us how you know?
The only way you could "KNOW" that would be if you had seen the update, and you aren't claiming that.
So yes you are speculating, as you don't "KNOW", what if they have a show stopping issue with bluetooth? Or something similar that they don't want to release with bugs?
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I am speculating. Just like I speculate that I'm breathing in oxygen right now. You could be absolutely right. If you are, then the least they could/would do is let the many people who e-mailed them asking for dates:
"we're experiencing technical difficulties with the update and we expect to have resolved by [insert overestimated date of expected release here] We thank you for your patience"
- or something like that? That wouldn't be too much to ask, would it? They haven't done this. Most reports of dates have turned out to be false or "missed" or simply rumour. I'm not the only one who thinks there is a significant and dramatic delay with the Hero 2.1 update compared to other devices. It's been noticed, and it's causing a lot of resentment - right or wrong.
The least of the mistakes they could be making is simply not communicating to their own customers when the 2.1 update will be ready - and again, right or wrong, Hero users seem to care, in general, quite a lot. Maybe they don't know if it's a technical issue. But would anyone really believe that it could take another 12 months from now? 6 months? 3 months? My point is that if they wanted to they could give us a rough estimate. In fact, they've said little or nothing.
alsheron said:
As my "theory" isn't a legal case, I don't need that most dubiously elusive of things called "proof" so commonly demanded in order to dismiss common sense reasoning.
Click to expand...
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My common sense and experience with HTC tells me, it's not finished yet, otherwise it would have been leaked ...
alsheron said:
We KNOW
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By the way, how many are YOU ???
hkr said:
By the way, how many are YOU ???
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We are many! ;-)
I have this minor annoyance that keeps coming up in these update threads, the statement that the 1.5 stock ROM is bug free. People who keep saying that must not use bluetooth stereo. Music slow down and pitch issues, stuttering when starting a song etc. I'd be happy with a 1.5 fix just for those issues.
What HTC is really missing in this 2.1 affair is that the Hero was the first impressing Android device on the market. Tatoo and Magic were not good enough for a "geek" or "tech-victim" to make the big step and jump from an iPhone or whatever was their old smartphone.
Let's consider the two main type of "nerds" who bought an Hero:
- the most nerdy guys, who spent 500€ on an Hero anything less than a year ago, will jump to Desire anyway, because they always want the last piece of hardware, regardless how small the improvement in terms of performance will be.
- the less nerdy guys, or those who can't afford a 500€ shot every 8-12 months, will stick to their 1.5 Hero anyway, both because they don't have the money for a new phone, or because they are on contract, or whatever reason can keep away a real nerd from upgrading whatever piece of hardware
So there is no way HTC is selling more Legend/Desire/N1 by keeping the upgrade for them. Maybe 1% of Hero customers will switch to something better just because of this 1-2-3 months delay. Those who can, would have did it anyway. Those who can't, won't do it anyway. 2.1 on Hero will have a user experience definitely worst than Desire and slightly worst than Legend, so maybe releasing 2.1 on Hero 1 month ago would have teased the "real nerds" to buy a new terminal just to enjoy better all those functionalities that on a Hero would be a little smuggy.
Sorry for the bad english
alsheron said:
HTC are forgetting that android users and their customers in particular are generally going to be more "techy" and generally going to want the latest version of Android.
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Sorry - but this just isn't true.
The vast majority of people who have the Hero have no desire to root, flash, or do anything beyond what they can already do with their 1.5 handsets.
People like us, who frequent boards like XDA, are very much the exception rather than the rule, and HTC do not care about us - if they did, they wouldn't go to the lengths that they do to lock down their phones!
Regards,
Dave
foxmeister said:
Sorry - but this just isn't true.
The vast majority of people who have the Hero have no desire to root, flash, or do anything beyond what they can already do with their 1.5 handsets.
People like us, who frequent boards like XDA, are very much the exception rather than the rule, and HTC do not care about us - if they did, they wouldn't go to the lengths that they do to lock down their phones!
Regards,
Dave
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Click to collapse
Thats an interesting point - and probably (painfully!) true - but it doesn't "feel" true when you are one of us here - a "techy" and are waiting for the latest and greatest.
OK I had the Hero, and the Google phones by HTC on other carriers all had the same problem whether on 1.5 or 1.6 they all wanted 2.0+, most were very delayed, some other companies, Motorolla, have botched updates as well.
That being said, I came from the Hero where I liked HTC, didn't like not having a keyboard on that phone sometimes. I find that Samsung seems to be about equal from my perspective, I am wondering why so many people here make them out to be the devil and make HTC sound wonderful. Do you really think they don't ever mess up updates there and all their phones are better? I'm sorta lost on that point, vs. almost any other Android company. As far as I'm concerned, having a friend who had the G3? on T-Mo then I got the Hero soon after, I have found Google to be the delay...that or every company does it...
Am I wrong somehow?
Android users will *****, moan and complain until their faces are blue. Google has trained us to expect software updates immediately since they release them so rapidly. And if the Android userbase doesnt have the latest and greatest on our phones within even a month of Google releasing the source code...they blow thru the roof.
I had the Hero as well...and I recall being on 1.5 and everyone *****ing about when we would get 2.0. HTC got brownie points because they got EVO users 2.2 so quickly while Epic owners sat in the corner and watched the cool kids move their apps to their SD card.
We will be getting 2.2 on Monday...and then we will want 2.3. Its a process that will never end...
And the end of the day...Android users are the biggest pains in the a double s's ever. They cry, complain and moan and the sense of entitlement they possess is ridiculous. Software updates take time to format for different phones running different systems. Patience doesnt exist though. Thanks to Google...
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Im not concerned with froyo honestly. Im concerned with bug fixes for known problems
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Ditto. I could give a crap about froyo at this point. If it doesn't fix all the bugs and battery problems, who cares. Airplane mode toggle, GPS, exchange connection problems and battery drainage, and DRM batter drainage are my biggest complaints. To be honest with you I would be happy if they fixed those things, cause it's a pain to have to deal with all of that. There's no reason why you should have to do all this tweeking to get your phone to work semi decent!
OP, this is true. If I switch it will be for greatly increased dev support.
I'm reluctant only because I will really miss the camera. I bought the phone for the keyboard but it has proven itself fairly worthless compared to the blackberry keyboards I'm used to.
I'm nowhere near the most hungry person for this new OS version (seriously, it's JUST SOFTWARE) but I have to admit it just doesn't make sense that a company worth possibly hundreds of billions of dollars can't update their "flagship" phones faster than this.
Yes, we all know Sprint figures into the equation somehow, but they sure managed to get Froyo onto the Evo quickly, didn't they? You can't tell me HTC, which is a far smaller and less influential company than Samsung, had less technical hurdles to overcome. (Well, you can, but I wouldn't believe you.)
Now Samsung and Sprint may be more conservative for the Epic's care, but their lack of transparency as to why is the issue here. It's largely about lack of communication. Sure, you can argue they don't owe us anything insider-y, but because we look at the technology as vital and spend so much money we want to feel taken care of and be assured our devices have value, and are valued. The phone should be better with this new version, but we probably shouldn't expect miracles either.
I just think Samsung, for all its admirable qualities, needs to really re-evaluate their product support. They've come a long way in mobile phones, and I bought the Epic because I liked the previous "dumb phones" they made well enough, but they also have a long way to go. With their smarts and innovation, I think they will be able to successfully reform. But they can't simply look at the immediate bottom line--competition in technology is too fierce now, reputations can get destroyed quickly, and companies which tarnish their brand can pay dearly for their errors. Just yesterday you had phone makers like Nokia and RIM high on the heap, and even Microsoft's Windows Mobile was once considered a potentially serious player--look at them now, struggling. It can happen to Samsung as well. But they can still make good, and maybe are finally turning the corner here in the U.S.
Most updates take a while for them to be released. There are always bugs that need to be fixed and the bugs are not usually easy to be fixed. The specs are slightly better on some other manufacturer phones, but the AMOLED screen keeps me sticking with Samsung. That and the fact that their charging ports don't have issues with falling off the mainboard like the Evo. It took thousands of complaints for HTC to come out with a reinforced charging port when they released the Evo Shift, but they still have not gone back and changed their manufacturing process of the regular Evo to incorporate the reinforced charging ports.
It is much easier to explain to a customer that damaged their ribbon cable when they dropped their phone with the slide open than it is to explain to a customer that their charging port is a common complaint, but since it damaged the solder joints and contacts beneath the port, they now have to pay $100 for their deductible or get a new phone if they didn't have ERP or TEP.
I really don't care what OS version im on as long as there's no bugs
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
My guess is that HTC makes better android software to beging with.
I owned 2 samsung phones(Behold2 and Epic) and one HTC phone(MyTouch Slide 3GS).
MyTouch with only 600mhz CPU,512 ram and no dedicated GPU ran android(with Sense overlay) so well that it was unbelivebale.
MyTouch Slide 3GS with stock rom ran so much smoother and lag-free than my Epic is with any rom(maybe with exeption of Syndicate).I know people will say that its due to MTS3gs's lower resolution,while that maybe partialy true I think its because HTC takes their time to optimize android to run smooth on their hardware and has better developers.Samsung does **** halfassed,why not hire some better developers and make you software as good as your hardware and be number one phone company in the world?
I bought MTS3gs at launch date with 2.1 on it and within 2 months they released 2.2 for it,keep in mind that MTS3gs was not a heavy hitter,all 4 networks,flagship phone like Galaxy S is.That makes me feel that HTC cares about their reputation not like Samsung.
While my Samsung phones are of better build quality I would go back to HTC in a heartbeat if they had Amoled screens,but after using Amoled on Behold2 and S Amoled on Epic I cant,lol.
And one last thing why I think HTC is better-They release their source quickly.Why do you think all Cyanogens,MIUI and best roms hit HTC so quickly?
DroidApprentice said:
Yes, we all know Sprint figures into the equation somehow, but they sure managed to get Froyo onto the Evo quickly, didn't they? You can't tell me HTC, which is a far smaller and less influential company than Samsung, had less technical hurdles to overcome. (Well, you can, but I wouldn't believe you.)
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Uh, lets review history a little bit.
HTC is the manufacturer of the Nexus 1, the first phone to get Froyo. They received froyo before the release of the Nexus 1 so that they could write drivers. SIX MONTHS LATER, the EVO4g comes along running a SLIGHTLY different first generation snapdragon SOC. In fact, the EVO has near identical hardware to the HTC Incredible which was released a full month before the EVO.
So HTC had PLENTY of time to begin developing drivers for the EVO.
You are saying that Samsung didn't have more technical hurdles to overcome creating drivers for the first devices to use their hummingbird processor and PowerVR SGX 540 gpu than HTC which built the reference platform for Froyo 2.2 through their Nexus One?
The Evo has also received multiple small patches from HTC because their Froyo update was obviously rushed by Sprint so that they could run all of those annoying "first" ads.
Also, take a look at some of the issues people have had with the Evo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Evo_4G#Criticism
It has the same screen issues that my HTC TP2 had, which is the brightening in a small spot as an example.
HTC and Samsung are the same..the biggest difference is Sprint is Sprint released EVO as their June phone and wanted to be first to upgrade to 2.2 so they pushed HTC to upgrade faster...If you think about it they updated the international SGS at an ok time table (not the best but OK)..when it got to the carriers is when the issues started happening..
lviv73 said:
My guess is that HTC makes better android software to beging with.
I owned 2 samsung phones(Behold2 and Epic) and one HTC phone(MyTouch Slide 3GS).
MyTouch with only 600mhz CPU,512 ram and no dedicated GPU ran android(with Sense overlay) so well that it was unbelivebale.
MyTouch Slide 3GS with stock rom ran so much smoother and lag-free than my Epic is with any rom(maybe with exeption of Syndicate).I know people will say that its due to MTS3gs's lower resolution,while that maybe partialy true I think its because HTC takes their time to optimize android to run smooth on their hardware and has better developers.Samsung does **** halfassed,why not hire some better developers and make you software as good as your hardware and be number one phone company in the world?
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The MT3GS is using the 600mhz snapdragon processor is it not..that processor is pretty much an under-clocked EVO and GPU is the same..add to it the lower resolution and there is no reason why it shouldnt run smoothly..anyways on my Epic though when running 2.1 stock I had it smoothly no matter what I was doing :/
I bought MTS3gs at launch date with 2.1 on it and within 2 months they released 2.2 for it,keep in mind that MTS3gs was not a heavy hitter,all 4 networks,flagship phone like Galaxy S is.That makes me feel that HTC cares about their reputation not like Samsung.
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The mytouch series is T-mobile's brand...when your "branded" by the carriers you get more love...
And one last thing why I think HTC is better-They release their source quickly.Why do you think all Cyanogens,MIUI and best roms hit HTC so quickly?
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?!??!?!?!??!?!??!?!?..we are talking about the same HTC right? for the record Samsung releases source same day or within a week usualy..HTC on the other hand still didnt release sources for many devices eve after people have been calling them for AGES to release them...
What makes HTC easier is many devs have worked with HTC phones for YEARS even before they had any protection on bootloaders or anything..we practically grew up with them..and with the N1 it contributed a lot as well..
See, I just don't believe any of that and ill tell you why; the myTouch 4g. That phone runs worse than my HERO did with stock software. And it does everything slow: pulling up the dialer, installing and loading apps, pulling up the market, everything. Its honestly probably one of the worst feeling phones I've ever used (that weren't running MotoBLUR... shutters) and even launcher pro couldn't salvage it.
The reason HTC is "better" than Samsung is just as TC said; people here have awfully selective memories. HTC is just as painfully slow at getting this done as everyone else, they just got paid a ton to get 2.2 (not even 2.2.1 which I believe it still doesn't even have) out for ONE phone and everyone just forgot. I can't wait for the Evo to take 9 years like every other phone to get gingerbread/ice cream sandwich so people can return to hating every company evenly.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
bentiger said:
Most updates take a while for them to be released. There are always bugs that need to be fixed and the bugs are not usually easy to be fixed. The specs are slightly better on some other manufacturer phones, but the AMOLED screen keeps me sticking with Samsung.
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Click to collapse
True,Samsung has the best hardware,and Amoled keeps me buying from Sammy.But when Samsung got a flagship phone that is out on 6 major phone carriers in US alone,plus 3 more in Canada and probably 5-10 more in EU and they neglect to update them and put in a little Extra time when making the software for them-Thats bad business.
Samsung have no vision thats why they will never have loyal costumers like Apple.Why year after year you see same people standing in line just to buy inferior iphones?Because they know that Apple will not abandon them.First iphone2g,iphone3g,3gs still get updated with new features.Samsung just too stingy to pay a few extra pennies that will earn them millions of exta dollars in a longrun.
Thanks for that very interesting and informative post. I can't claim to know about the intricacies of writing hardware device drivers, but even so, with all its resources it's tough to believe Samsung had so much trouble. But to keep perspective it's really mainly a U.S. problem. In other parts of the world they've had Froyo on Galaxy S for months. We have the differing builds and radios etc. they had to cope with. But enough devil's advocacy...my original incredulity is still in place about Samsung, if not Sprint. If the update lives up to at least most of our expectations, I guess it'll be bridge/water.
lviv73 said:
True,Samsung has the best hardware,and Amoled keeps me buying from Sammy.But when Samsung got a flagship phone that is out on 6 major phone carriers in US alone,plus 3 more in Canada and probably 5-10 more in EU and they neglect to update them and put in a little Extra time when making the software for them-Thats bad business.
Samsung have no vision thats why they will never have loyal costumers like Apple.Why year after year you see same people standing in line just to buy inferior iphones?Because they know that Apple will not abandon them.First iphone2g,iphone3g,3gs still get updated with new features.Samsung just too stingy to pay a few extra pennies that will earn them millions of exta dollars in a longrun.
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Wut?
Every phone Samsung has released under the Galaxy S banner other than the 4 major carriers in the US got Froyo in November.
Apple hasn't abandoned the iPhone 2g and 3g? Interesting.
DroidApprentice said:
Thanks for that very interesting and informative post. I can't claim to know about the intricacies of writing hardware device drivers, but even so, with all its resources it's tough to believe Samsung had so much trouble. But to keep perspective it's really mainly a U.S. problem. In other parts of the world they've had Froyo on Galaxy S for months. We have the differing builds and radios etc. they had to cope with. But enough devil's advocacy...my original incredulity is still in place about Samsung, if not Sprint. If the update lives up to at least most of our expectations, I guess it'll be bridge/water.
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Click to collapse
Now this is something we should ponder. Samsung has ALL of the drivers already written for a majority of what is needed to get us to Gingerbread. They released the Nexus S which is the flagship gingerbread phone, and simply has to port over and update our 4g and cdma drivers basically. We should absolutely see Gingerbread in a very quick fashion, IF that is, Samsung is deciding to support this phone as they should.
muyoso said:
Wut?
Every phone Samsung has released under the Galaxy S banner other than the 4 major carriers in the US got Froyo in November.
Apple hasn't abandoned the iPhone 2g and 3g? Interesting.
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Click to collapse
They haven't abandoned the 3g..it works by 2 years cycles..so 2g has been abandoned but 3g has not until the iphone 5...
That said it doesn't mean samsung has gave up on us completely..for all you know we may go up all the way to honeycomb and beyond...they just have been rather slow at it :/
lviv73 said:
Why year after year do you see the same people standing in line just to buy inferior iphones? Because Apple consumers are a cult made up of a certain type of people who are easily susceptible to being brainwashed by clever advertising and worship everything Steve Jobs says or does like he's the David Koresh of geekdom.
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Fixed. Half tongue-in-cheek, but half serious as well.
muyoso said:
Now this is something we should ponder. Samsung has ALL of the drivers already written for a majority of what is needed to get us to Gingerbread. They released the Nexus S which is the flagship gingerbread phone, and simply has to port over and update our 4g and cdma drivers basically. We should absolutely see Gingerbread in a very quick fashion, IF that is, Samsung is deciding to support this phone as they should.
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Sure, that sounds sensible except I might beg the question...why then not take us right to Gingerbread? ;-) Coincidentally I was at a Best Buy tonight and played with a Nexus S. It really is weird how it's so similar to the phone I'm typing this on right now, but Google's sponsorship of it changes so much on the software side...
Each day when I come here, I see a big slow down on the developing and updating of roms for the Evo4G. I know allot of the developers and members have gone on to the Evo 3D, but there is still a large number of us that aren't totally sold on the 3D yet. And like in my case it is NOT from being able to afford the 3D cause the price is not the issue. I just think allot of members are being left with a slim choice of roms anymore and the choice is getting slimmer. Thank you 3D!
"Hell I don't know anymore"
Don't really see roms disappeared anywhere, and yes many people got the 3vo but it still wasn't ROM per day before the 3vo, just give it time till devs find new and better things to put on ROMs
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA Premium App
Not saying any roms have "disappeared" just seems the updating and developing in the 4G arena had slowed down quite a bit.
bronxknight28 said:
Don't really see roms disappeared anywhere, and yes many people got the 3vo but it still wasn't ROM per day before the 3vo, just give it time till devs find new and better things to put on ROMs
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
"Hell I don't know anymore"
selders59 said:
Each day when I come here, I see a big slow down on the developing and updating of roms for the Evo4G. I know allot of the developers and members have gone on to the Evo 3D, but there is still a large number of us that aren't totally sold on the 3D yet. And like in my case it is NOT from being able to afford the 3D cause the price is not the issue. I just think allot of members are being left with a slim choice of roms anymore and the choice is getting slimmer. Thank you 3D!
"Hell I don't know anymore"
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Click to collapse
Really? If it is worth crying over why don't you start developing for your phone? These devs do this for fun and free. They don't owe you anything or have to develop on the basis that there is still a large user base. You are not entitled to anything.
Leaning the kitchen is definitely the way to go. That way you can take the best of what you like, and it in.
Much more satisfying too.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
I just see more quality roms
I don't think the OP is ranting against developers, I believe he's ranting against the EVO3D for just existing. least that's the way I saw it.
dschoenike
selders59 said:
Each day when I come here, I see a big slow down on the developing and updating of roms for the Evo4G. I know allot of the developers and members have gone on to the Evo 3D, but there is still a large number of us that aren't totally sold on the 3D yet. And like in my case it is NOT from being able to afford the 3D cause the price is not the issue. I just think allot of members are being left with a slim choice of roms anymore and the choice is getting slimmer. Thank you 3D!
"Hell I don't know anymore"
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Click to collapse
1. dude lets face it the evo 4g is now free at many places like target mobile..
2. The Evo 4g while a good phone is now end of life as it has been replaced... Its the way it goes.... We are lucky that the phone was not replaced after about 3 to 6 months. We got a year of updates.... from htc and sprint....
3. why dont you just go and get the evo 3d like i am in november for me...
4. why dont you just root and place some sort of evo 3d rom on your phone... granted it will be slow because of having to use the transflash card for everything.... since you need atleast a 2gb partition on it as ext3
You have definitely taken this wrong. And I have NEVER said the devs.owe us anything. Just making an observation. So don't try to inject things into my words that I am not stating.
Rem3Dy said:
Really? If it is worth crying over why don't you start developing for your phone? These devs do this for fun and free. They don't owe you anything or have to develop on the basis that there is still a large user base. You are not entitled to anything.
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"Hell I don't know anymore"
IMO, I love HTC, but the hardware changes aren't worth me wasting my upgrade right now. I'll just wait for Fiscal Q1 2012 when everything will have major changes.
for example:
http://phandroid.com/2011/02/16/nvidia-quad-core-android-tablet-codenamed-kal-el-video/
that's a major hardware change from everything else. That would make me upgrade no problem....
I'm not saying from eVo to 3vO isn't an upgrade, just not enough for me
Man I can definitely see everyone does not read this correctly. It was just made as an observation and that was it. As for getting a 3D like I said the cost is nothing, as if and when I decide to get a 3D I will be purchasing more than one. My issue is Performance wise and I have tested it side by side at Sprint with my phone running virus's B1.3 rom. And even the tech I know there said outside of the 3D pics and videos, the processor just a hair bigger, and the increase in memory there really was not a significant difference in the performance. As he even stated that the rom I am using runs and makes transitions just as smooth as the 3D.
So I think I will just hold off til something with some more significant changes in software and hardware comes out before I use my upgrades or money on.
"Hell I don't know anymore"
I think the bottom line is a combination of factors.
The devs have done 2.1 and 2.2 pretty much to death.
AOSP, Sense 3.0, and GB are more intriguing to more and more people, but there is a lack of source code.
There are other higher-profile projects for devs, including rooting 2.3 and, yes, rooting and developing for the 3D.
But I agree with the other suggestions that you look into cooking your own ROMs, or maybe get into app development. That's what I'm doing, but it's also just for fun. Be creative. Just make a nandroid first.
Progress is a *****. Get over it.
dcmasta said:
IMO, I love HTC, but the hardware changes aren't worth me wasting my upgrade right now. I'll just wait for Fiscal Q1 2012 when everything will have major changes.
for example:
http://phandroid.com/2011/02/16/nvidia-quad-core-android-tablet-codenamed-kal-el-video/
that's a major hardware change from everything else. That would make me upgrade no problem....
I'm not saying from eVo to 3vO isn't an upgrade, just not enough for me
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Click to collapse
I want to believe this is true but I think it's all speculation for quad cores coming to phones when dual cores are barely being introduced to some phones...Evo 3D being one of them. I agree though, I'm waiting until an ice cream sandwich phone (from someone other than Samsung) comes out..or a phone with higher specs to come out before I even consider getting a new phone.
I can see your comment is a suggestion as to your IQ gumbo. It really is surprising when people take observations you make as "crying" then post highly intellectural comments like "get over it" . ROFLMAO you make me laugh.
GumboChief said:
Progress is a *****. Get over it.
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"Hell I don't know anymore"
Once the kernel source is released we will see more development. Other than the original android phone the "G1" the EVO has seen major development over other phones and continues to do so. The EVO has had quit a run in my opinion. How many other phones get a update after a year of service? Not many. Once we see a non 3d version of the dual core I personally will be upgrading. For now I believe the shift ports are giving the EVO one more run.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
I see it the same as SilverZero. It's not the Evo 3D or any other new sexy phone that's slowing ROM development. It's simply that Froyo's been done and still no source code for Gingerbread. So, things are slow. That said, I still see a lot of port successes (and failures) in Development and incremental tweaks on existing GB roms.
What would you like to see?
OP, just flash Synergy Rom and call it a day. It's the smoothed, zippiest Rom I have ever flashed. There's no denying it. With Synergy Rom on my EVO 4G, it's absolutely keeping me from getting the EVO 3D. It's that good.
I'm gonna hold off on upgrading for a little while at least three to six months to see what else is gonna become available.
tx_dbs_tx said:
OP, just flash Synergy Rom and call it a day. It's the smoothed, zippiest Rom I have ever flashed. There's no denying it. With Synergy Rom on my EVO 4G, it's absolutely keeping me from getting the EVO 3D. It's that good.
I'm gonna hold off on upgrading for a little while at least three to six months to see what else is gonna become available.
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Click to collapse
+1 on Synergy, & I'm waiting for whenever the WiThin drops before I even think of making any decision to get rid of my EVO. I even still have my Epic sitting unactivated. Decisions decisions LOL
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Folks don't take me wrong, the 3D is an advancement and the developers here are top notch and so are a majority of the members. I have made and will continue to make donations to this site and the devs both in support and financially. I just know there are allot of folks still going to keep their evo's for awhile more and would hate to see the loss of further rom developing for our devices. If I had the knowledge and time to get into developing I would for the community. But I don't. As running a business and being part of several organizations for handicapped children takes up most of my time besides my own family. I apologize if this thread has been tasken by some in the wrong context.
piscesjoey said:
+1 on Synergy, & I'm waiting for whenever the WiThin drops before I even think of making any decision to get rid of my EVO. I even still have my Epic sitting unactivated. Decisions decisions LOL
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
"Hell I don't know anymore"
With less and less devs working on the Evo 4G nowadays, I ask, is Evo 4G officially being forced to retire? I myself even went to check on upgrading to the 3VO. It's no fun without any new Roms to play with. Being a flashoholic, I'm suffering from withdrawal, and it's hard to deal with.
What exactly leads you to say that devs are no longer supporting the EVO 4G? The development forum seems as hopping as ever to me.
MaxCarnage said:
What exactly leads you to say that devs are no longer supporting the EVO 4G? The development forum seems as hopping as ever to me.
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Click to collapse
Check out the latest updates. I've seen only two in the last few days. Look at the 3D forum, it's on fire.
JKDLBC said:
Check out the latest updates. I've seen only two in the last few days. Look at the 3D forum, it's on fire.
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Click to collapse
Newer devices are going to have more support than older.
However, it's also true that the source code for Gingerbread for the Evo was only released a few days ago.
This Guy must have missed the development thread....
Sent From My Pocket
I don’t know, it looks like we shall be set free, in good time but in a "registered" kind of way. At least that is what I am getting from 3D forums and the f+Bk page.
I could be wrong about all of this, but to me, the writing is on the wall. I really feel the demise of EVO 4G, as far as development standpoint. The latest talks is that most of the devs are jumping ship. I mean, can you really blame them. Great phone that has been improved. I've even seen what could be called a collection plates to get certain devs 3VOs. No disrespect to anyone doing. Hard/good work should not go without its just reward.
I think there just isn't anything new really other then kernels no new OS atm to play we have sense up to 3.0 and why port much much more? I do see improvments in each ROM though just slower EVO 3d is hoping cause they don't have anything
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ckoadiyn said:
I think there just isn't anything new really other then kernels no new OS atm to play we have sense up to 3.0 and why port much much more? I do see improvments in each ROM though just slower EVO 3d is hoping cause they don't have anything
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it is important to understand that the big rush in the beginning is:
1) Get root
2) Wait for Source code
3) Fix **** ups from the manufacturer
4) Make modifications [possibly from other devices] to improve Android overall.
It's been over a year, all that's been done. While improvements are still coming constantly...the bulk of that work for the Evo is, well, done.
mattykinsx said:
Yeah, it is important to understand that the big rush in the beginning is:
1) Get root
2) Wait for Source code
3) Fix **** ups from the manufacturer
4) Make modifications [possibly from other devices] to improve Android overall.
It's been over a year, all that's been done. While improvements are still coming constantly...the bulk of that work for the Evo is, well, done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to agree here. I think a lot of people have gotten into the habit of changing ROMs on a way too frequent basis, to the point where they're switching weekly with 4-6 Nandroid backups of different ROMs so they can jump around as much as they want.
That list above is the true goal of Android development. If I find a good ROM, and there's relatively little bugs (especially less than stock), looks great, gives me something flashy (like Sense 3.0) I can be satisfied for months at a time, not even updating most of that time.
Unless there is something that has yet to be perfected on the EVO, development could halt right now and it wouldn't hurt what we already have. Look at all the things that's been done for the EVO since release:
Wireless N
HDMI-to-TV mirroring
Hacked hotspot
Notification bar power controls
4G on CM7
Hacked Hulu (which is now pointless, but eh)
...and more I just can't remember right now because I haven't had my morning coffee yet. The EVO has actually evolved (no pun intended) over the last year and 2 months, and like any piece of hardware, we're going to reach the limits. But the EVO has shaped the future of Android forever, and that's what we need to remember most.
Our community has created some of the most amazing pieces of code Android has ever seen, and that will only get better with the 3D. Time to move on...if I had the money, I'd get the 3D too, but that's just because I can't root my replacement EVO...
mattykinsx said:
Yeah, it is important to understand that the big rush in the beginning is:
1) Get root
2) Wait for Source code
3) Fix **** ups from the manufacturer
4) Make modifications [possibly from other devices] to improve Android overall.
It's been over a year, all that's been done. While improvements are still coming constantly...the bulk of that work for the Evo is, well, done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is my point. We have reached the pinnacle, when it comes to development for the EVO. As a dev, why wouldn't you feel it's time to move on? Their work here is done. The writing is on the wall guys. The most they can do is make minor mods here. The next challenge is 3VO or some other device. I will not mention those other devices by name, I am EVO.
I think there's a huge difference between "end of dev cycle" and "device is on last breath".
Is your evo having any problems running anything? Are you not on the latest android 2.3.5?
CM still has nightlies, miui still has weeklies, only thing really slower is sense and the only one to blame there is htc (and possibly yourself for wasting your time with sense).
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Justin.G11 said:
I think there's a huge difference between "end of dev cycle" and "device is on last breath".
Is your evo having any problems running anything? Are you not on the latest android 2.3.5?
CM still has nightlies, miui still has weeklies, only thing really slower is sense and the only one to blame there is htc (and possibly yourself for wasting your time with sense).
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree here. My EVO is doing everything I could possibly want! We "may" be seeing the end of OS development for this phone, but now their concentrating on kernels now that the source has been out for a couple of weeks.
I think saying last breath is alittle strong. As far as anything else that can be developed rom-wise maybe. This is still going to be a serviceable phone for quite some time. If you are a person with flash issues you might have a problem. To me once kernels get perfected you shouldn't have to flash like a maniac anyway. Honestly I think the only other thing to perfect now is hdmi and personally I could care less but that's just me. I'm going 3d later this month and the Mrs gets my OG EVO. For her this will be a beast of a phone. Writing on the wall yes, last breath, far from it.
Peace
djwalter said:
I think saying last breath is alittle strong. As far as anything else that can be developed rom-wise maybe. This is still going to be a serviceable phone for quite some time. If you are a person with flash issues you might have a problem. To me once kernels get perfected you shouldn't have to flash like a maniac anyway. Honestly I think the only other thing to perfect now is hdmi and personally I could care less but that's just me. I'm going 3d later this month and the Mrs gets my OG EVO. For her this will be a beast of a phone. Writing on the wall yes, last breath, far from it.
Peace
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not believe this statement is too strong at all. Technology moves at a very rapid pace. Once something hits the shelves it's already old technology. Lets take the iPad (yes, I dare to mention this) for example. This was once a revolutionary product, except now, we have the Tablet, the Eee Pad, the iPad2, etc. You yourself even call it by the name OG EVO, which usually signifies something old. So yes, SIR, I do dare say that the EVO is on its last breath.
P.S Trade-in your EVO for a $125 credit toward the 3VO
I guess we look at last breath differently. To me last breath means no more support. Apps no longer supported etc. But we are different people and view things differently.
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