Behind the scene: Developement of the Galaxy S

Behind the scene: Developement of the Galaxy S - Galaxy S I9000 General

Cool read.
JULY 01, 2010 06:31
When Apple launched its new smartphone iPhone 4 June 8, Samsung Electronics released its smartphone Galaxy S without prior notice.
The Korean electronics maker said, “This is the culmination of our company’s 20-year history of handset manufacturing.”
People in and out of the company said Samsung timed the release with Apple’s launch of the iPhone 4 to compete squarely with Apple. Aware of the “Apple shock” triggered by the iPhone’s entry into Korea in November last year, Samsung reacted in an orderly manner this time to prevent a recurrence, experts said.
Many people wonder what happened inside of the company after the shock.
○ Paradigm shift in product development
The Dong-A Ilbo interviewed Monday Kim Hak-sang, director of the platform development department in the company’s wireless division who led the development of the Galaxy S, and Ahn Won-ik, head of a software platform group at Digital City of Samsung Electronics in Suwon, Gyeonggi Province. Kim led hardware development and Ahn software development.
A task force to develop the Galaxy S was set up in October last year shortly before the iPhone arrived on the Korean market. The team designed the hardware at first, but had difficulty choosing an operating system.
Kim said, “We applied many operating systems and concluded that consumers and mobile carriers want Google’s Android.”
The task force is different from the previous handset development team in the company’s wireless division. Samsung allowed flexibility in its guidelines on developing new products.
Ahn said, “In the past, there were clear guidelines for product development and they never changed, so what we had to do was to strictly follow the guidelines. This time, however, they are constantly changing.”
“From the beginning of development, we sent a prototype to power users not only in Korea but also in the U.S. and European countries and based on their feedback, we’ve improved the product.”
The sense of touch and electricity consumption were improved based on such feedback.
By actively incorporating opinions of the product planning and marketing departments, the team changed the smartphone’s design seven times.
The timing of the release was set, but developers were embarrassed because of constantly changing guidelines.
Ahn said, “At one point, we received more than 1,000 pieces of feedback from overseas power users,” adding, “We felt increasingly burdened since we had to choose from them those that deserve attention and discuss whether corrections were necessary.”
○ Big change in decision making
It is difficult to achieve flexible product planning and rapid production at the same time. To meet these two goals, the company simplified the decision-making and reporting processes.
Kim said, “Previously, the staff members in charge submitted well-written reports to executives. Now, they have meetings with staff members with rough draft reports.”
This was to save time in drawing up reports and spend more time developing products.
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I cant seem to post link.

Did they think a lot when they decided to implement the toyish plastics on that -brilliant in other aspects- phone?

One thing to consider about that back everyone complains about. I've read that it is carbon fiber. It does look like it. If it is true, that is a very strong material and considered high end in automobile design to give strength and lighten the weight. And not cheap.

ewingr said:
One thing to consider about that back everyone complains about. I've read that it is carbon fiber. It does look like it. If it is true, that is a very strong material and considered high end in automobile design to give strength and lighten the weight. And not cheap.
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I think you're refering to the Captivate version on AT&T which has a carbon fiber pattern on it's battery door. Whether or not it's really carbon fiber I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure all other versions of the SGS are completely plastic.
If I'm wrong and the casing is made of carbon fiber, that'd be one more thing to add to the checklist for this excellent phone.

^ Its a carbon fiber lookalike plastic. Its NOT carbon fiber.

i work with carbon fiber and two reasons i doubt it's carbon fiber
a) cost of CF is high, even in this economy. Last price quote we had was in the $52 sq yard range - and yeah i know samsung would get a much better price, and it's only an approx pc sized at 3X5" but still the cost of it vs the faux CF would be excessive
b) CF shields electrical / radio signals - blocks them as effectively as tin foil or copper sheet
even black colored plastic degrades a radio signal some, as carbon is used as the coloring agent - that's the reason the last phone i bought and was offered in white as one of the options, i went with white

Related

Jury rules for Apple

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...f747f4-ee37-11e1-b624-99dee49d8d67_story.html
I knew this was going to happen, Danm apple
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american vs korean company... go figure...

Yes, where everyone so stupid to use apple products, poor Samy

It just seems wrong that a rectangular device with rounded corners can be patented. Then patenting a bouncy effect. /double face palm.
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Really bad outcome for innovation and fair competition. Wonder if the makers of the very 1st PDAs which were rectangular with rounded corners might want to now go after Apple.
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And what is worse the average Joe thinks that Samsung stole Apple's technology. Did not know that a rectangular object with rounded corners was classified as technology.
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benkcsg said:
Really bad outcome for innovation and fair competition. Wonder if the makers of the very 1st PDAs which were rectangular with rounded corners might want to now go after Apple.
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I imagine that US courts will be happy to let Apple go after foreign companies who obviously used time machines to travel forward and steal Apple's 'innovative' design for a rounded rectangle to make similar devices years before the first iPhone. Just think how many years of retrospective-royalties they can claim for :laugh:
Whilst they are at it, they can shut down European and Asian flatscreen TV manufacturers who have long been building sets with rounded corners .. should prove useful when Apple introduce their rumoured TV.
It's no surprise that Apple were able to file a very dodgy bunch of patents with the US Patent Office and that a US Court will hold them up when deployed against foreign competition. What will be interesting is when other US companies end up tangled in Apple litigation, principally Google/Motorola.

You cant stop the Android train when it start's to move, 70% of the smartphone marked and still rising :good:
Don't think the iPhone 5 can save apple

Even though it was a loss for Samsung i think in the end they will bounce back and still be a stiff competitor to Apple. Samsung is bringing back the stylus format, even though many people hate it, what will Apple do to combat this? Probably nothing. We have all complained about Samsung many times due to hardware or software issues but we still go back to them because they come out with excellent devices. Imagine what Samsung will come up with next after this ruling.
Here is another article on the subject
http://news.yahoo.com/analysis-sweeping-apple-win-samsung-set-bounce-back-053300691--sector.html
Here is another thing I don't understand why is Samsung still supplying parts to Apple? Okay aside from the million/billion dollar business deal for parts, enough is is enough, you want to make a dent in Apple's sales take away their parts and force them look somewhere else. By doing this they will have to make possible design and software changes from the parts (correct me if I am wrong on this).
Well another point I want to make is that Iphones, Ipads will become part of a niche market just like their computers are.
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ShyPod said:
You cant stop the Android train when it start's to move, 70% of the smartphone marked and still rising :good:
Don't think the iPhone 5 can save apple
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I don't think apple is in need of any saving last time I checked, have a bucket load of cash reserves and a ridiculous market cap.

I've read somewhere earlier that there's a lot of discrepancies from the side of the Jury, .. I think this isn't over yet

adinis78 said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...f747f4-ee37-11e1-b624-99dee49d8d67_story.html
I knew this was going to happen, Danm apple
Sent from my GT-P6800 using xda premium
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I found the following list of the verdict here:
– On the question of patents on the bounce-back technology featured in Galaxy line of smartphones immediately following the launch of the iPhone, Samsung is liable.
– On the question of pinch-and-zoom technologies, mostly based on one-and-two fingered control, the jury finds Samsung is guilty. Not all of the phones and tablets have been tagged as liable but many of them. (The damage figures could be huge.)
– On the question of tap and zoom technologies, Samsung is guilty. There are fewer devices dinged.
– Jury finds Samsung should have known that its divisions were enabling infringement actions.
– Jury finds Samsung DID NOT infringe iPad patents. That’s one on the column for Samsung.
– On the question of UI, mostly based on the iconography of the front screen of the iPhone, the jury finds Samsung guilty.
– This might be the biggest one so far: On the question of willfulness on most of the infringement of patents, the jury finds Samsung guilty as well.
– The jury ultimately upholds most of Apple’s patents. Samsung is barred by “patent exhaustion” from using patents 516 and 941. In the original instruction form Apple denied “infringed claims asserted by Samsung” and argued claims asserted by Samsung were invalid. The jury agreed.
– The jury decides against awarding Samsung any damages. Zero.
– The jury finds Samsung did not break Apple’s anti-trust exception.
– After reviewing the verdict, Judge Koh noted discrepancies that wrongly gave Apple more money than it deserved. The first is a judgement on the Galaxy Tab. There was no infringement for the Tab patent but the jury had given more than $200,000 in damages. A second problem involved a trade dress judgement, which involves more than 2M dollars. Considering the judgement leveled more than a Billion dollars upon Samsung, a 2M dollar saving is strictly irrelevant.
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Is there an accurate detailed list somewhere about the points the jury decided on? Apparently many of the points only affect certain devices, which is quite strange - if the jury ruled Samsung infringed e.g. on the pinch-zoom patent then basically every single Android device (and most other smartphones) would be infringing, no?
One of the more interesting points for us 7.7 users seems to be mostly ignored by most of the reporting, the forth point:
Jury finds Samsung DID NOT infringe iPad patents.
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I've seen this on several mentioned on several websites yet none goes into any detail on what exactly it means. If the jury ruled Samsung's tablets including the 7.7 do not infringe this could be seen as a partial win for Samsung.

ThE_SoUrCe said:
I've read somewhere earlier that there's a lot of discrepancies from the side of the Jury, .. I think this isn't over yet
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I believe this is regarding the 3G patents, but apple claims that once they bought the chips from intel who paid the fees to samsung that apple is no longer required to pay samsung for those 3G patents.

But even if the court decides in accordance with the jury's conclusion will not tear away the reason for Samsung's competent.
Relatively small claims
Firstly, the compensation amount is set to 1.05 billion dollars. The amount is less than half of the original claim to Apple.
Samsung is unlikely to suffer any distress due compensation amount. Approximately 70% of revenue is based on the smart phone sales, where the number of phones that were sold between April and June was more than double the number of sold smartphones from Apple. Proceeds from this sale amounted to 4.5 billion dollars.
New design creates loopholes
"The impact on Samsung will be quite limited. The models affected are primarily older products, while the new products, changes in design to avoid potential litigation, "says patent attorney SU Intellectual Property, DJ Jung.

ShyPod said:
But even if the court decides in accordance with the jury's conclusion will not tear away the reason for Samsung's competent.
Relatively small claims
Firstly, the compensation amount is set to 1.05 billion dollars. The amount is less than half of the original claim to Apple.
Samsung is unlikely to suffer any distress due compensation amount. Approximately 70% of revenue is based on the smart phone sales, where the number of phones that were sold between April and June was more than double the number of sold smartphones from Apple. Proceeds from this sale amounted to 4.5 billion dollars.
New design creates loopholes
"The impact on Samsung will be quite limited. The models affected are primarily older products, while the new products, changes in design to avoid potential litigation, "says patent attorney SU Intellectual Property, DJ Jung.
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Actually the impact on all Android devices will be quite severe. If they force them to remove features such as double tap (ridiculous since Windows tablet computers did this before there even was an iphone) and pinch to zoom, the Android interface will be quite awful. Can you imagine zooming into websites or pictures using some crappy slide bar or arrows or something? Blech!

It's a pity über-litigation, immeasurable greed and pure "douchbaguiness" weren't around in the 1930's.
Just imagine the market cap of Baird UK in our days if someone there had just put a proverbial turtle-neck black sweater on and been consequentially infused with the brilliant idea of preventing every other prospective TV manufacturer to use their "patented" "Box-with-screen-and-some-dials" propriatary format
XK
---------- Post added at 01:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:39 PM ----------
...and another thing...The lack of equity in the dispensing of justice is something that always ticks me off.
If I was the judge in this case the first thing I would have asked Apple's in the very first hearing session would have been: "All right, where are the other individual claims against all manufacturers that used the same touch pad concept?"
If they failed to produce proof of the other filled claims, I would immediatly rule the claim against Samsung to not be about the alleged infrigment but about trying to block a competitor and, as such, would consider Apple a "bad faith litigator".
Going after selected targets for commercial convinience is something no system focused on actual justice should allow.
XK

Apple wants more, now hey waned to Ban almost all the latest samsung released , including tabs and the sIII.. what a pity

Do not fear. This is just the beginning. This is just a small battle that Apple has won but the war is not over and the end result will be that all these companies will just cross license their "patents" so that they can focus on their core business of providing good hardware and software that can compete on merit. Anything else will just result in the demise of the company that takes its eye off the ball. Apple will have to decide if they are a tech firm or a law firm.
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[Analysis] Motorola cutting R&D costs and why that matters?

What it tells you when a company currently reshaping the market with their Android platform start cutting R&D costs, globally, from the company [Motorola Mobility] that they have recently acquired? Actually few things.
Source to the cut costing: http://www.slashgear.com/google-motorola-cuts-costing-us-340-but-theyre-only-the-start-04250360/
- Google's Android mission is not what it makes to the naked eyes. Something I have always claimed
- Google would want to pass on major potential financial losses to the other entities
- Motorola Mobility is no longer a reliable manufacturer in which consumers would want to purchase hardware from. If targets are not met Moto stops providing support, they have already strongly demonstrated that. With the smaller budget Moto has, it puts them in more fragile position compared to the other manufacturers
- I predict Motorola Mobility "most likely" wouldn't make Android phones in five years time which is in line with the end of five years promise the Chinese government got from Google to keep Android open-source in exchange to agree to the acquisition. No one has ever questioned why a Government has to request something that allegedly free and open-source already as a bargaining chip? This is something Google doesn't want anyone [General Public] to know.
If you agree with any of the points in above then you should realise Motorola Mobility now is an unreliable company to purchase hardware from which require constant software updates i.e. Smartphones.

Well... It just looks like Google wants to annihilate Motorola. Now they got their tech, they don't care about Moto anymore. They have a partnership with Samsung for a long time now, we can't expect a Motorola-made Nexus device anymore.

CSharpHeaven said:
What it tells you when a company currently reshaping the market with their Android platform start cutting R&D costs, globally, from the company [Motorola Mobility] that they have recently acquired? Actually few things.
Source to the cut costing: http://www.slashgear.com/google-motorola-cuts-costing-us-340-but-theyre-only-the-start-04250360/
- Google's Android mission is not what it makes to the naked eyes. Something I have always claimed
You say you have always claimed this, so you must have a theory as to what they are really doing?
- Google would want to pass on major potential financial losses to the other entities
Which "other entities" are you referring to?
- Motorola Mobility is no longer a reliable manufacturer in which consumers would want to purchase hardware from. If targets are not met Moto stops providing support, they have already strongly demonstrated that. With the smaller budget Moto has, it puts them in more fragile position compared to the other manufacturers
You have no idea what Motorola Mobility's budget is, nor what the corporate strategy is as they and Google move forward.
- I predict Motorola Mobility "most likely" wouldn't make Android phones in five years time which is in line with the end of five years promise the Chinese government got from Google to keep Android open-source in exchange to agree to the acquisition. No one has ever questioned why a Government has to request something that allegedly free and open-source already as a bargaining chip? This is something Google doesn't want anyone [General Public] to know.
Your predictions are based on personal assumptions and a complete lack of knowledge regarding corporate acquisitions imo, and the resulting restructuring that occurs, and nothing to do with the article you have put up a link to. Every major organization which is bought out by another, usually bigger, organization goes through major restructuring, layoffs, plant/site closures, and ultimately alignment with the corporate strategies of the purchasing body. Customer service and support always suffers through this teething period. I predict Motorola Mobility won't even exist in 5 years, let alone design and manufacture devices. They will either be stripped and sold off, or swallowed whole and devoured by Google, but then again, my predictions are also assumptions.
If you agree with any of the points in above then you should realise Motorola Mobility now is an unreliable company to purchase hardware from which require constant software updates i.e. Smartphones.
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Cutting R&D costs doesn't necessarily mean an organization is going out of business, or stopping development. It can simply mean they have defined where Motorola was going wrong, and are adjusting for future R&D and NPI activities. If they plan on releasing only a couple of high end devices a year, why would they need a large R&D team. You keep the cream and trim the fat. Retain the achievers and get rid of the slackers.

CaelanT said:
Cutting R&D costs doesn't necessarily mean an organization is going out of business, or stopping development. It can simply mean they have defined where Motorola was going wrong, and are adjusting for future R&D and NPI activities. If they plan on releasing only a couple of high end devices a year, why would they need a large R&D team. You keep the cream and trim the fat. Retain the achievers and get rid of the slackers.
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Entities refer to those who are part of Android Alliance program for instance.
I have been writing about Android on XDA on many occasions, some were talk of tech-media months later. I have removed some content (in form of article) from XDA before in protest of a thread closure. I'm learning to move on from incidents like that now. You can search my threads from my profile.
I formed my opinion on Motorola mainly based on actual shortcomings in the past nearly two years that has nothing to do with their budgets. However, I have to remind you that Motorola had the money to give one individual person [Sanjay Jha] $66m and god knows how much collectively the executives received but Motorola, apparently, didn't have the money to hire contractors for six months to cook the ICS ROM for us. So I might don't know how much budget they have but for sure I know Motorola Mobility has no clue in "budgeting" plan.
It is well documented what Chinese government asked regarding Android remain open-source for the next five years. Google it please. Take my word for it, many things in this acquisition will remain secret anyway. Please read your own comment in the same section to see how contradictory you sounded.
I have never made a link between R&D cost cutting and Motorola Mobility being shut down. I haven't even said Motorola Mobility was going bust soon, you did.

I'm so glad Motorola split. I love Motorola hardware.
Sent from my Atrix 4g MB860 running leaked official Motorola ICS

Slymayer said:
Well... It just looks like Google wants to annihilate Motorola. Now they got their tech, they don't care about Moto anymore. They have a partnership with Samsung for a long time now, we can't expect a Motorola-made Nexus device anymore.
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I don't think many of us were expecting a Motorola nexus device.
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CSharpHeaven said:
Google's Android mission is not what it makes to the naked eyes. Something I have always claimed
You say you have always claimed this, so you must have a theory as to what they are really doing?
Entities refer to those who are part of Android Alliance program for instance. So please explain where you get this theory of passing on financial losses from.
I have been writing about Android on XDA on many occasions, some were talk of tech-media months later. I have removed some content (in form of article) from XDA before in protest of a thread closure. I'm learning to move on from incidents like that now. You can search my threads from my profile. I'm not protesting your thread, and it makes no difference to me how much you have written about Android. I could write about knitting all day,but that doesn't mean I know how to "stitch one".
I formed my opinion on Motorola mainly based on actual shortcomings in the past nearly two years that has nothing to do with their budgets. However, I have to remind you that Motorola had the money to give one individual person [Sanjay Jha] $66m and god knows how much collectively the executives received but Motorola, apparently, didn't have the money to hire contractors for six months to cook the ICS ROM for us. So I might don't know how much budget they have but for sure I know Motorola Mobility has no clue in "budgeting" plan. We all know corporate big wigs get massive payouts. That's a given in any large corporation. Where do you get that Motorola couldn't afford to hire contractors from? I'm betting Motorola/Google have very good experience in budgeting. Companies do not grow as big as them without strategic budgeting, and a ruthless business sense. New technology is all about time to market............beating your competitor to release. It's never been about consumers, and this has nothing to do with budgets in the sense of lack of budget, but rather huge ROIC numbers of 25+% being required by greedy shareholders who will cancel NPI projects in the blink of an eye if they do not meet target costs of 60%-62% profit margins.
It is well documented what Chinese government asked regarding Android remain open-source for the next five years. Google it please. Take my word for it, many things in this acquisition will remain secret anyway. Please read your own comment in the same section to see how contradictory you sounded. I have not argued this point with regards to the Chinese government, but rather the 5 year part. I see it that they will not exist in 5 years because if they aren't making phones they have nothing to exist for other than development, and they will be wholly integrated into Google by then. If Google doesn't want anyone to know, then how do you know?
I have never made a link between R&D cost cutting and Motorola Mobility being shut down. I haven't even said Motorola Mobility was going bust soon, you did. Seems like your whole post was pointed at budgetary cuts, R&D activity cost cutting, and Moto Mobility not making phones in 5 years. Maybe I was incorrect in reading between the lines and seeing reduced budgets, job losses, and a 5 year life span. In any event, what you said does not reflect the article you linked to other than R&D spending cuts.
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Anyway, I'm on my hols for 2 weeks after tomorrow, so I'm gonna go have a beer or three!

CaelanT said:
Anyway, I'm on my hols for 2 weeks after tomorrow, so I'm gonna go have a beer or three!
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Back in March 2012 I started a thread with the following title: "Android a Fragmented, Differentiated, and Misrepresented Platform". I completed the first six parts taking me over 100 hours of work before I removed them which I have already provided the reason. I still have a copy of the original works. As you can guess by now, it would take a lot of effort just to answer your first question. I might complete the articles or use them as part of other future articles one day.
When others investing money in developing hardware for Android then Google has nothing to lose should market take a 360 degree on Android for instance.
You are assured bragging about something is not my style but I will go to the end of the world for what I believe in. Several parts of the articles actually covered the technical side of Android rather than the business model of it.
Sorry I can't make any useful comment about your fourth paragraph. I made a point and you turned into a very complicated matter in particular in the beginning of your paragraph.
I was actually being very careful to write Motorola Mobility wouldn't (most likely but not surely) make hardware such as smartphones in fives years time when it requires constant software support. The reason was Motorola Mobility develops other products such as Bluetooth headphones, TV Set Box, and etc.
It is my fault not citing from the article in the first place which was the following;
"Other impacted territories are Asia and India, with cuts in R&D spending across various locations in Chicago, Sunnyvale, and Beijing."
In my opinion the intention of Google to cut spending in R&D is far more important than what was being reported which was Google has realised even scaling down is going cost the company a fortune.
This is what wikipedia has to say about R&D
"In one model, the primary function of an R&D group is to develop new products; in the other model, the primary function of an R&D group is to discover and create new knowledge about scientific and technological topics for the purpose of uncovering and enabling development of valuable new products, processes, and services." -- Wikipedia
Even if Motorola Mobility uses both models that were described in above description one can say (as I did) Motorola Mobility or rather Google planned (might still be on) to stop or reduce developing new products or innovating new products/services/technology (second model). Obviously when R&D is scaled down then all the forces across all business processes also need to be scaled down otherwise, the business is simply will waste money.
Motorola Mobility stock share should lose values based on this report alone because clearly Motorola Mobility no longer wishes to be proactive in the very competitive market. From consumers point of view this should be a further warning that things are not promising at all.
Enjoy your long holiday and see you around on XDA soon.

I remember the article you wrote because I read it. Why you had to remove it I have no idea, and I am disappointed that you did.
<edit> Went back and looked through that thread. And here I thought I could be a royal arse at times! XDA can be a very rough place sometimes.
That being said, I manage R&D activities in a very large global company which is 85% focused on R&D and NPI, with very little manufacturing occurring other than with 3rd party vendors in low cost countries.
All arguments aside, I was pushing for an explanation of your comments which did not seem to relate much to the article you linked, or the thread title. Your last post explains your reasoning behind your comments much better.
Cheers!

Software development costs could be being cut as Google may be moving Motorola onto having a pure android experience. As Google has its own devs, why get moto to change anything?
Sent from my MB860

tomh235 said:
Software development costs could be being cut as Google may be moving Motorola onto having a pure android experience. As Google has its own devs, why get moto to change anything?
Sent from my MB860
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Thank you for your inputs. I have to disagree with your point on pure Android experience which you must meant Nexus phones. I'm glad you mentioned that since I had few things to say about it.
As it has been reported Google is expanding its Nexus program to allow multiple manufacturers to release their own Nexus version. A careful examination would reveal a brand in Android ecosystem only would be distinguishable by differentiation i.e. Home Launchers and features. Many Android users would agree that they often miss features when move on to a pure Android experience.
Now here is my take on the Nexus program. Not many people noted that the Nexus program has brought a huge financial reward to the manufacturers who participated in it by actually establishing themselves in Android market generating more revenue from selling their other product lines. Samsung is very good example, while their Nexus range did well but SGII, GNote (probably equal to GNexus), and SGIII did far better. HTC only has itself to blame for not taking advantage of the opportunity and even though the following year of their Nexus release they did well but they went down the hill by releasing handsets that were aggressively designed for profits only i.e. the Sensation range.
The same pattern can also be observed in Google Store where developers participate in Google's promotional programs where they reduce their prices for a period of time but end up with significant revenue increase and jumping ranking position in application listings.
Now that this marketing method has been proven to work with Android consumers it would be feasible for other manufacturers to join the Nexus program, at same time. I have my reservations about the impact of more than two manufacturers participating in the Nexus program.
What concerns me the most about Nexus program is its hidden agenda. For one, Google has been trying to make Cloud services as a vital entity in their mobile platform. The obsession with cloud services is a worrying factor especially when all parties (i.e., Google, Manufacturers, and Network Operators) involved wanting your data to be stored on their servers. Nexus phones share one feature in common and that is the ommission of the SD-Card port. The LG Optimus Nexus has been said not to have the SD-Card port either. Please remember, if corporates fail to predict the consumers behaviour correctly then they would attempt to introduce that behaviour to the consumers eventually.
I know Google enough (observations) to know they don't rush into things for not being noticed. While they have good alliances with their business partners but they can seek other agendas at same time. In the world of politics it is known as "Parallel Politics". Google is the most involved tech company in the world with global politic activities. I'm willing to say, their involvement is almost in the same level as the USA government in many terms.
In my opinion the lack of upgrades would be in Google's benefits since they own and run the Nexus program itself and in our case (Atrix and Proton owners) they own Motorola anyway. Motorola's Patents was a good reasoning point, for general public, to acquire Motorola but I have my feelings it was more than the patents, keeping my eyes on this anyway.
Sorry, I never meant to write this much but now that I did I would like also to expose the $100 offer program from Motorola. A publicity stunt that would look Motorola to come across considerate when it is hardly going to cost them anything in fact. Here are my reasons;
- Upset Motorola users wouldn't want anything to do with Motorola anymore therefore the $100 is worthless
- Many users have claimed they can get more money by selling their phones. The $100 offer therefore is worthless.
- Considering the above point Motorola in fact is ripping Motorola users twice over. Remember you have to give up your phone to quality for $100
- Virtually all Network Operators have recycling-program where they buy back phones. Therefore Motorola did not offer anything new to the ripped off customers
- A cheap attempt by Motorola to keep consumers on their brand to shift more new phones, in numbers, for future financial reports
Update:
Droid-life just reported the following; "Server Logs Hint at Motorola Nexus Tablet and Phone?"
Source: http://www.droid-life.com/2012/10/05/server-logs-hint-at-motorola-nexus-tablet-and-phone/
Busy time for Nexus Program this year where potentially five manufacturers (Motorola, Asus, HTC, Samsung, LG) will have Nexus devices out before the year is out.

Food for thought: HTC executive shake up

http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/21/4...ures-disastrous-first-and-production-problems
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app

It will be sad to see them go, downsizing is never pretty. I really hope we'll see a phone running sense in the future generations.. I think the one should have been much more popular than it is.
Sent from my Tricked out HTC One

Its overdue!!
When a company goes down that fast, major changes are a must!!

Just sack the CEO and let someone else bought the company.

This is very very sad news, also the launch of the One in my country is a disaster.... Not enough unit to sale, only units for pre-ordered customers, delayed 3-4 times. I really hope the doubled manufacture rate of the One will help them get out of this situation...

Google - please buy HTC!!

yes but consider this
if the US staff if being changed or they are leaving on their own, the motherbase is still in Taiwan, if anything those leaving are those who failed HTC so far
Let's not forget the One X main failure was the US market
Slashgear's take on the news
HTC sees more top execs disappear as Facebook fouls First launch
and little less drama
Nonetheless, HTC’s future is about more than just a few high-profile staff looking elsewhere for their next challenge. The company has apparently pushed through its HTC One production issues, with output said to double this month alone, and the unaudited sales figures from April indicated that demand for the flagship was certainly there. HTC has been pushing ahead with cost-cutting, too, axing little-used services like HTC Watch in less popular locations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

and did the press consider that Eirc is just a guy who left his job and bad mouthing the place
Leigh ‏@jetleigh 9h
Proud to say I work for @HTC. #hatersgonnahate
Click to expand...
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https://twitter.com/jetleigh/status/337036907546570752
Leigh ‏@jetleigh 8h
@verge you guys are missing a big piece to this, creates a misleading story. *sigh.*
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Executive hemorrhage continues : http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/22/4355290/htc-asia-ceo-lennard-hoornik-leaves-company

i dont think this will affect anything at all..they are always people who can do a better job than those who have left

They just might bring in new people that can get HTC out of this disaster, you never know, HTC might be better off without them.
Ps. Can somebody rename this thread? There are threads created every minute about the same topic.
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using xda app-developers app

For everyone worried that HTC will no longer exist, just remember that Nokia, Yahoo, AOL, MySpace, and many others still exist even though they have not been relevant for a whole lot longer

hamdir said:
Slashgear's take on the news
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Click to collapse
This from that article would be an absolute disaster.
A reshuffle in how HTC makes its strategy decisions could be part of the reason behind the shake-up, it’s suggested, with the company shifting product planning to the Taipei HQ and potentially leaving the Seattle office out of the loop.Asian companies don't know how to market toward Western audiences and HTC's been historically bad. Controlling it all out of Taiwan would just make things worse. And if you look at where the people went most are in better jobs with bigger and growing companies so "house cleaning" doesn't seem like what's behind their departure. People on the inside have a more accurate view of the present and future and mass exodus is never a good sign.
Here's what Forbes said...
Once an undeniable power in the U.S. smartphone market (second only to Apple ’s iPhone in 2011), the Taiwan-based HTC Corp. is suffering the latest bump in what has been a slow, drawn-out stumble.
The company’s chief product officer, Kouji Kodera, has left the company, according to a report by The Verge. Kodera’s departure is one of a number of recent HTC fence-jumpers, which includes vice president of global communications Jason Gordon, global retail marketing manager Rebecca Rowland, director of digital marketing John Starkweather, and product strategy manager Eric Lin, according to the report. HTC Asia’s CEO Lennard Hoornik has also chosen to leave the company following two months of leave time.
This exodus of talent only worsens a grim outlook for the company in 2013. The HTC One – the company’s latest iPhone-esque smartphone – has not been the game-changer the company needed to bounce back from poor sales in 2012. Investors have taken notice, as they tend to do (eventually) and HTC’s share prices have fallen to $288 from $432 [the One X/S/V launch] this time last year on the Taiwan exchange.http://www.forbes.com/sites/karsten...retreating-in-the-face-of-iphone-and-samsung/

The thing with Eric Lin is that even when he first "introduced" himself to the community at large for I believe it was pocketnow he came off as a very abrasive and quite negative representative for HTC (and that was in 2009). In terms of PR he was a bad move by the company...In that it doesn't shock me in the least that he is a very outspoken critic of HTC America.
Even speaking with him at some of the live events he's still extremely abrasive...he's a really bad spokesperson for even a company performing well

kurby said:
They just might bring in new people that can get HTC out of this disaster, you never know, HTC might be better off without them.
Ps. Can somebody rename this thread? There are threads created every minute about the same topic.
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good idea. Done.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app

domineus said:
he came off as a very abrasive and quite negative representative for HTC (and that was in 2009).
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So either he was really good at his job and HTC decided to overlook his personality traits or, since he was at HTC for four years, HTC's incompetent for allowing such a key position to be filled with someone not up to the task.

Forbes iPhone esk quote is ridiculous as well as measuring the one success so pre maturely
I give up with American media

hamdir said:
Forbes iPhone esk quote is ridiculous as well as measuring the one success so pre maturely
I give up with American media
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Their basing their conclusion on HTC's guidance for Q2 2013 which is below (by 21%) what they actually achieved in Q2 2012 with the X/S/V and that at this point last year their stock price is 33% lower with the One on the market than when the X/S/V were on the market for the same amount of time. I was hoping for HTC's sake that today's big Verizon announcment was that they'd be carrying the One. It turned out to be a partnership with Jennifer Lopez aimed at the U.S. Latin market.
Here's HTC projected performance along with their historical performance (as provided by them).

Off to enjoy my HTC One
Enjoy the stock exchange Barry I share no interest
---------- Post added at 08:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------
By the way, isn't it odd that you only contribute to death stories around this specific forum and nothing to do with the device it self?
At least Baron took a bold step
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2157153&page=612

You really don't like HTC at all Barry, do you? Never see you saying anything good about them and always praising Samsung like they have no faults at all and any problems that they do have, you seem to brush them under the carpet like they are non-issues i.e. the screen issues yet when it comes to HTC and a minor problem, it is just an outrage and that this will severely hurt the company according to you......
Regarding this "shake up", just because people have left the company doesn't neccasrily mean that the company is going down, as posted by one of them and an article, it sounds like they weren't happy working at HTC....... how that relates to "the end of HTC", please explain......... besides, it might be a good thing as posted, their marketing is crap (much better this year but still not good enough to match Samsung) and this is one of the most important areas as to if a product will do well combined with sales commissions, Samsung know fine well how it important it is, otherwise they wouldn't be throwing such a stupid amount of money at that department let alone increasing it substantially each year, that is largely why they are so popular and sell so many units as has been proven even if a product gets better reviews and is better overall and is preferred by the majority of users across forums/polls etc. Looking at both devices the other day, HTC one shoved with all the other devices where as the galaxy s4 has its very own stand and the device isn't clamped down anywhere as much and you even have a wee display notice beside the phone saying something like "call for assistance to demonstrate the features" and everywhere you look, you just see GS 4 posters.... this is where HTC and other companies fail big time and is what cost them their sales, X company could have the very best product by miles, however, what is the point if you have Y company that has a device, which isn't as good but are paying/bribing the shops more in order (more than other companies) to push their devices onto the customers?? In that situation, what do you think is going to appeal to the average joe customer more....
Plus HTC need to branch out to more market areas in order to create more brand presence as at the minute, average joes probably view HTC like what we view ZTE etc.
The GS 4 is not the best selling phone purely because of the SD slot and/or removable battery and/or its software gimmicks/features (maybe it is for the likes of most of the people on this forum but not for the mass consumer i.e. average joes and you can quite clearly see this isn't the case as apple aren't having problems with their iphones and sales.....) or/and because it is free of faults (how many note II and GS 3 devices died last year from the sudden death issue?? Surely that would leave a bad taste??? Not to mention when it took Samsung so long to admit that there was a problem let alone fix it.....EDIT: Oh and their awful repair service too! Blaming it on water damage......), GS 4 has more serious issues compared to the one currently i.e. over heating, poor performance in real world usage, screen issues (be it pink/purple tint, red pixels, screen glass or/and AMOLED breaking/cracking with slight pressure), audio issues etc. The one's issues are mainly cosmetic and some aren't even "issues" i.e. that tiny tiny gap at the top/bottom which doesn't even measure in at 1mm can hardly be consider an issue since it normal as the speaker covers aren't part of the zero gap body, if that is consider an issue then every single phone has that issue especially the GS 4, check the camera lens area and back cover parts:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2013/04/dsc05710-1366741454.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2013/04/dsc05555.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2013/04/dsc05553.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2013/04/dsc05538.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2013/04/dsc05492.jpg
Heck Samsung could have just released the exact same phone as the GS 3 but with that 1080P screen and they would have still have sold the same amount as what they currently have with the GS 4.
It is just like everything these days especially the game and film industry, you hype and market the **** out of the stuff, they sell millions, however, be bloody awful, you then have your GOTY and film of the year that doesn't sell as well due to the lack of marketing.
/rant
Anyway, back on topic, as I was saying, this could be a good thing, getting new and better people in to carry out those jobs and get some fresh ideas.
Sounds like the CEO needs to go as well......

[NEWS] HTC Execs in Custody; Accused of Stealing Trade Secrets & Sense 6.0 Designs

[NEWS] HTC Execs in Custody; Accused of Stealing Trade Secrets & Sense 6.0 Designs
The Verge said:
Following reports of internal disarray in May, when several executives departed, HTC has filed a formal complaint out of its offices in Taipei, Taiwan, that several high-level employees stole trade secrets after planning to leaving the company. Several Chinese papers report that HTC's VP of product design Thomas Chien, an R&D director Wu Chien Hung, and design team senior manager Justin Huang were among five employees that planned to leave the company after collecting their mid-year bonuses yesterday.
AUTHORITIES RAIDED HTC'S R&D CENTER YESTERDAY
Engadget's Richard Lai cites several Chinese sources as reporting that HTC "caught Chien secretly downloading files related to the upcoming Sense 6.0 UI design" and sharing the data with external contacts via email. Chien and Wu were reportedly both taken into custody following raids at HTC's R&D center and the suspects' homes and offices.
In addition to stealing trade secrets, HTC also alleges the designers charged elevated fees for their part in the design of HTC's One smartphone. Although the design was done in-house, Lai reports that Chien, Wu, and Huang are accused of using "an external design firm to invoice HTC for over $334,000" before splitting the fee between themselves. The trio have reportedly registered a new design company aimed at the Chinese market, where Focus Taiwan claims they're "likely to work with Chinese smartphone vendors to develop new models, using the technology they stole from HTC." According to the China Post, one suspect at the scene of the R&D raid claimed HTC management was aware of the new business and questioned the reason for the search. It should be noted that, while UDN agrees with the chain of events, it doesn't attribute the comments to suspect, but rather an onlooker.
THE PROBLEMS ARE TWO-FOLD FOR HTC
The problems are two-fold for HTC. As well as allegedly dealing with a major issue of internal fraud, the company also looks likely to lose some very important members of its design team. Huang personally sketched out the design for the HTC One, while Chien spearheads the entire product design team in Taiwan. HTC hasn't commented on any of the revelations, apart from to note that "the matter is under investigation by relevant authorities."
Update: HTC has elaborated on its previous statement, telling us that it "expects employees to observe and practice the highest levels of integrity and ethics. Protecting the company’s proprietary and intellectual properties, privacy and security is a core fundamental responsibility of every employee. The company does not condone any violation. As this matter is currently under investigation by the relevant authorities, we therefore refrain from further comments."
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http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/31/4...tedly-in-custody-after-stealing-trade-secrets
Thoughts and/or opinions?

Well they were leaving so it depends if they were planning to go and work elsewhere, that would be interesting

Willieumm said:
Your thoughts?
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It's kind of a strange story and I'm guessing there's more to it than we've heard so far.
Cher Wang, HTC's largest shareholder and Chairman of the Board, filed the charges personally. That's pretty odd.
If $300K was misappropriated in May where were all HTC's checks-and-balances and why was it discovered only when key personnel left the company? Peter Chou is known to be a micro-manager and to have his hands in everything. It's pretty embassing (if true) that he and CFO could miss a $300K scam.
The people that left are heavy hitters; including their VP of Product and the designer who penned the One. Whatever comes from the charges HTC's loss of their design team is going to be an issue.
It's kind of funny to hear about HTC's secret sauce being so valuable that others would steal it or misappropriate it. HTC's sales and stock value have fallen like a rock over the past 24 months and they're projecting a loss for Q3. If Sense hasn't helped HTC what's so "valuable" about it that it's worth stealing? Especially when it would be pretty easy to reverse engineer it anyway.
I guess we'll find out more as the case advances.

BarryH_GEG said:
[*]It's kind of funny to hear about HTC's secret sauce being so valuable that others would steal it or misappropriate it. HTC's sales and stock value have fallen like a rock over the past 24 months and they're projecting a loss for Q3. If Sense hasn't helped HTC what's so "valuable" about it that it's worth stealing? Especially when it would be pretty easy to reverse engineer it anyway.
[/LIST]
I guess we'll find out more as the case advances.
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Click to collapse
It's talking about Sense 6, you can't reverse engineer what hasn't been released, and the whole point would be to preempt HTC release. Time to market is pretty important.

Htc sensation robbed htc of one of the best android manufacturers. Htc desire lineup was good then Htc one X, S. were too great devices and now One is best. Htc now just need to push its marketing because many people dont know about it much like they know about samsung and of course they need to focus on great new products. Htc phone have generally higher price unlocked so they need to fight samsung on that front
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium

BarryH_GEG said:
HTC's sales and stock value have fallen like a rock over the past 24 months and they're projecting a loss for Q3. If Sense hasn't helped HTC what's so "valuable" about it that it's worth stealing? Especially when it would be pretty easy to reverse engineer it anyway.
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Click to collapse
Very true but when you really think about the design team of the HTC One you're talking about HTC's most successful phone to date, both in sales and in critic and user praise. Sure, they didn't outsell the S4/iPhone 5 but look at how many months the HTC One has been #1 in the Official Phone Dog Smartphone Rankings, both by user and expert votes. I consider this a HUGE victory over both Apple and Samsung, especially on the user side, because it's what the average (non-XDA) users see on TV, magazines, ads, billboards, etc. And I believe also that those are the models which are heavily pushed by the salespersons in stores as well. So to think that it's sat at the top of the pack for the better part of the year is at the very least a major victory. And since the Sense design team has gone to a more minimalistic approach of the UI, they've also gained a great deal of praise for the overall software design. I think the most interesting and damaging things that happen here will be mostly behind the scenes and probably never even come to light for us to analyz. As a very long-time HTC fan and loyal user, I hope to see them continue the direction they had going with this, and not lose the momentum they had gained this year. Hopefully this will have very little negative effects overall because I really feel like they got it all right with the One, finally bringing together all the major components they got wrong on previous phones that had just as much potential, but failed in execution. I feel like HTC finally took note of what average users, power users (such as us) and critics/experts. But I guess only time will reveal what's in store for us.

Here’s the deal. Cher Wang and Peter Chou rule HTC with an iron fist. They are singularly responsible for all the decisions that have HTC where it is today. Where is it? Their stock is at an all-time low with 31 out of 33 analysts assigning it a “sell” rating which means they believe there’s little hope for a recovery. They’ve lost revenue, profit, and market share in every YOY quarter for the past 24 months. Because of their loss of sales they now have a scale problem. Producing as few devices as they are they pay more than their competitors for the same components and have lower priority access to scarce components. Their R&D, production costs, and support are distributed over a smaller product base which means their profit is hosed on that front too. Thinking outsiders might help, Cher and Peter brought in a bunch of Western talent. They all left with a bunch of very senior Asians that have been with HTC for years. Now they’ve lost their design team. So we’re back to Cher and Peter, the people responsible for getting HTC in to a mess, working alone to pull them out of it. As Einstein said, “insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome.”
The One was their last hope and a chance to prove they could turn themselves around. It is without doubt HTC’s best effort to date but, despite critical acclaim, it has caused HTC to miss their own revenue targets in the last two quarters which means it’s selling below HTC’s own expectations. So with a “bread and butter” phone like the One being as good as it is and not helping HTC gain market share while both Sony and LG have what chance do niche phones like the Mini and Max that sell in far lower quantities have? Their finally approaching emerging markets after their competitors have been there for a year. Who will care? Their component prices prevent them from competing on price and other manufacturers have bigger brand appeal. And the low-cost Desires are no One in terms of design and features.
It was suggested above that product isn’t the issue causing HTC to continue their decline and it’s all based on marketing. Their on record saying that the campaign with RDJ is continuing at their current global marketing spend rate of $500M annually over the next two years. Motorola’s paying $500MM over 4 months just for the launch of the Moto X.
Analysts are betting that HTC will be acquired this year; probably by one of the Chinese brands that could leverage their engineering and production resources. That’s pretty much HTC’s future as even with RDJ, the Mini/Max, and a late push in to emerging markets their relevance, scale, and numbers have declined past the point of a self-driven comeback. With their stock so depressed (and possibly getting worse) HTC will never go away and the lower the stock price goes the more attactive an aquisition candidate they become.
The holiday selling season will be very telling as to the direction of HTC's future.

Well i wont be buying HTC again, if they are still around to make the next phone

Yeah.... Reading all these stories. HTC One will be my last phone. Based on experience. HTC won't survive all these events. We seen it before.... Goodbye HTC...
Sent from my One using xda app-developers app

one thing we have to admit that htc is pioneer for andoid and by far htc one is the best android handset till the date which had given tough competition to apple in the means of design and looks ya there are some faults with the handset but they can be rectified and only htc one is the single handset in its competitor range which gives you dual sim functionality but can say that htc is going through their tough time bad luck whatever one thing they need to concentrte is marketing coz they are lagging behind in worlds key market like china india where samsung is constantly take the pie through marketing coz samsung also dont innovate much we know that may be its s3 s4 note 1 or note 2 even note 3
i think the real competitor for htc is sony in terms of innovation they are really doing good even in marketing so well lets hope htc can get some good plans from their current position

ccpzcp said:
i think the real competitor for htc is sony in terms of innovation they are really doing good even in marketing so well lets hope htc can get some good plans from their current position
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's a good chart of HTC's performance. Compare the red boxes against each other. Comparing Q1 vs. Q2 of the same year isn't relevant as it doesn't account for seasonality and other variances in quarterly selling conditions. To add insult to injury, 31% more smartphones were sold YOY (225M vs. 154M) in Q2 2013 which means to maintain the same market share (hold their ground) HTC would have had to have sold 31% more devices than in 2012. As the chart shows they sold considerably less. Sony sold 9.5M devices in Q2 2013, a 29% YOY increase. That puts Sony only 200K devices behind ZTE (9.7M) who claimed the number 5 sales spot for the quarter (behind Samsung, Apple, LG, and Lenovo).

Pixel Prediction (6 months from now 10/5/16-4/5/17)

I've been talking a lot with my friends about this who are also Android users. I know there are a lot of opinions about the Pixel, so I thought it would be interesting to make a thread to check back on in 6 months from launch to see how things panned out. At the end of the day either Google is correct with this phone, or the community was right in predicting the change. I figured 6 months is enough time to get the phone in the pipeline and where a price cut would be susceptible if one were to occur.
Here's my analysis:
Existing problems:
1. Pixel phone contains basic vanilla Android at the same price as an iPhone and Samsung with feature filled software skins.
2. Apple and Samsung both have established their product in the marketplace, unlike the Pixel. Samsung didn't get any real traction until the Galaxy S3/Note 3.........three generations in.....this is Pixel's first.
3. The biggest competitor (Galaxy/Note 7), both have expandable SD card storage and water resistance that the Pixel does not.
4. Only exclusive on Verizon, which allows only a small population to get it subsidized. (Both Apple/Samsung sell contract subsidized phones for BOTH Verizon and Sprint which creates a lower barrier to entry).
5. Google assistant which is one of its selling points, I don't see a huge immediate use for it unlike a better camera, or water resistance. There is a variant of this type of technology already out. It's called "SIRI" for iPhone and "S-Voice" for Samsung. It's been out for years and I don't know anyone personally who uses either on a daily basis. (or at all)
6. There are no "frills" to this phone. I keep saying that, however; the typically buyer of iPhone/Samsung do not know anything about the internals or the hardware. (How else would Apple get people to buy $3,000 laptops ? It's not the hardware they are buying). The phone is just too plain for mainstream appeal. Next time you see someone with a Samsung ask them if their bootloader is locked........then ask it in Japanese....you'll get the same response.
Pixel is taking aim at "mainstream", yet offering very little in terms of "frills" that mainstream typically likes yet charging flagship pricing. There is already a significant conflict in this strategy.
It's obvious based on the chart I uploaded Google's competency is not hardware unlike Apple......which would explain a lot. While I love Android, it's a small revenue of their overall revenue. Most likely, they are looking to diversify from just search and add to the bottom line as well from the smartphone market. It's very bold to try and compete against Apple that gets 53% of their overall revenue from iPhone alone, when Google has very little experience in that area (hardware).
Prediction:
In 6 months (or less), the Pixel phones will get price cuts to the same price as the 5x ($379) and 6p ($499). The phone won't be a flop and Google will keep it, but the price point was set too high. I don't think the phone is a total bust, but I do think with 99% certainty that this was priced too high to be competitive........Google just doesn't know it yet
Google right now can't even manage a proper messenger app (messenger, hangouts, allo.....seriously which one am I supposed to use Google ?), canceled Project Ara, canceled Google Glass, etc.......there's a lack of direction with the company needless to say.
Edit: Google search for Pixel compared to iPhone and Galaxy S7 (I left out Note 7 due to exploding battery interest) which has fallen off a cliff since the Pixel debut.

great post =) I agree with you

Well written. Very clear.
For me there is also a design problem.
The material design is too white and hurts my eyes especially in the evening. A dark theme is needed. So I am using Aquamail and not Gmail and apps with a dark theme. And black layers.
Maybe the Chinese will produce a better and cheaper phone. Who knows.
Maybe G is heading to a closed system ?

Or it could be the repeat of Google Pixel C with temporary "developer" discounts before the price goes back to list price. They don't seem to be too bothered about shifting stock.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA-Developers mobile app

According to The Verge websites interview with Google's hardware chief, Google knows the first generation Pixel phone won't sale in volumes and expects to gain little market share, apparently there is long term strategy behind the scenes with the release of these first Pixel phones. Here's a quote from that article.
"We certainly arent going to have enormous volumes out of this product. This is very first innings for us." Googles metric of success for Pixel wont be whether it picks up significant market share, but whether it can garner customer satisfaction and form retail and carrier partnerships that Google can leverage for years to come."
http://www.theverge.com/a/google-pixel-phone-new-hardware-interview-2016
As for the cancellation of Google Glass and other Google hardware, that was done by the recently hired Google hardware chief so he could bring all the hardware teams together to focus on same objectives, so it appears Google now has a sense of direction, thanks to this new hardware chief aka ex-Motorola president. Here's a quote from another interview, just for reference.
"When Osterloh, 44, came on board in mid-April, he brought Google hardware groups into one division, shuttering projects he didn't see contributing to Googles future. Now the engineers and designers from Google Glass, Chromecast and Pixel all work together. Keeping them separate, he says, made it hard to drive toward the goal of portfolio strategy and focus."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-google-s-first-real-threat-to-apple-s-iphone

In order to gain customer satisfaction they need to have customers, and the feedback everywhere I look is that they've already caused dissatisfaction with their prices and therefore won't have a solid customer base - especially after alienating so many Nexus owners with the ludicrous six-week Nougat delay and the dropping of the Nexus line.

dahawthorne said:
In order to gain customer satisfaction they need to have customers, and the feedback everywhere I look is that they've already caused dissatisfaction with their prices and therefore won't have a solid customer base - especially after alienating so many Nexus owners with the ludicrous six-week Nougat delay and the dropping of the Nexus line.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As much as I love the Nexus and it's contributing users, they probably don't make up enough market share for Google to care. Most Nexus owners are phone enthusiasts, who make up a very small percentage of the smartphone market.
Some Pixel phones are already sold out in the Google Store, so people are buying them. It remains to be seen if it will be enough for their "Customer Satisfaction" goal but from their interview, they don't seem to feel the need to sell a whole lot in order to make that goal, at least initially.

mikeprius said:
I've been talking a lot with my friends about this who are also Android users. I know there are a lot of opinions about the Pixel, so I thought it would be interesting to make a thread to check back on in 6 months from launch to see how things panned out. At the end of the day either Google is correct with this phone, or the community was right in predicting the change. I figured 6 months is enough time to get the phone in the pipeline and where a price cut would be susceptible if one were to occur.
Here's my analysis:
Existing problems:
1. Pixel phone contains basic vanilla Android at the same price as an iPhone and Samsung with feature filled software skins.
This is called Bloat to me basic vanilla Android is a huge plus
2. Apple and Samsung both have established their product in the marketplace, unlike the Pixel. Samsung didn't get any real traction until the Galaxy S3/Note 3.........three generations in.....this is Pixel's first.
Even though Samsungs are some of the most bloated locked down devices and iPhones are not Android devices Google with Pixel branding I just a continuation. I do agree more Samsung Devices and iPhones will be sold but so what?
3. The biggest competitor (Galaxy/Note 7), both have expandable SD card storage and water resistance that the Pixel does not.
My new phone will have 128Gig do I really need more, unlimited cloud storage for photos will help too
4. Only exclusive on Verizon, which allows only a small population to get it subsidized. (Both Apple/Samsung sell contract subsidized phones for BOTH Verizon and Sprint which creates a lower barrier to entry).
I am not American but they do sell SIM unlocked devices in the States do they not?
5. Google assistant which is one of its selling points, I don't see a huge immediate use for it unlike a better camera, or water resistance. There is a variant of this type of technology already out. It's called "SIRI" for iPhone and "S-Voice" for Samsung. It's been out for years and I don't know anyone personally who uses either on a daily basis. (or at all)
I owned 16 smartphones since the iPhone and not once did lack of water resistance bother me and I had zero devices with water damage. Google Assist can not see me using it often but only time will tell
6. There are no "frills" to this phone. I keep saying that, however; the typically buyer of iPhone/Samsung do not know anything about the internals or the hardware. (How else would Apple get people to buy $3,000 laptops ? It's not the hardware they are buying). The phone is just too plain for mainstream appeal. Next time you see someone with a Samsung ask them if their bootloader is locked........then ask it in Japanese....you'll get the same response.
First to get Android updates, first device with Qualcomm 821, first with official daydream support, and yes at least some say this will have the best camera
Pixel is taking aim at "mainstream", yet offering very little in terms of "frills" that mainstream typically likes yet charging flagship pricing. There is already a significant conflict in this strategy.
Why do you think they are gearing this for the mainstream, they never had in the past?
It's obvious based on the chart I uploaded Google's competency is not hardware unlike Apple......which would explain a lot. While I love Android, it's a small revenue of their overall revenue. Most likely, they are looking to diversify from just search and add to the bottom line as well from the smartphone market. It's very bold to try and compete against Apple that gets 53% of their overall revenue from iPhone alone, when Google has very little experience in that area (hardware).
Google builds nothing they are contracting HTC to build the Pixel, Pixel XL. Nobody expects them every to sell more of the current Pixel phones than Apple sells
Prediction:
In 6 months (or less), the Pixel phones will get price cuts to the same price as the 5x ($379) and 6p ($499). The phone won't be a flop and Google will keep it, but the price point was set too high. I don't think the phone is a total bust, but I do think with 99% certainty that this was priced too high to be competitive........Google just doesn't know it yet
Google right now can't even manage a proper messenger app (messenger, hangouts, allo.....seriously which one am I supposed to use Google ?), canceled Project Ara, canceled Google Glass, etc.......there's a lack of direction with the company needless to say.
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Who knows about the price I do know the 32 Gig Nexus 6p was selling for $600 Canadian (I do not know what American pay) and in 6 months I can not see Google pricing the Pixel XL 32Gig lower. Sell more than Samsung and Apple no not believes this will every happen but different people by Samsung and Apple. People that generally never visit XDA and they are happy with whatever bloat Samsung and Apple gives them.

Maybe they are trying to create the equivalent of surface devices like Microsoft? I have no clue how that helps either of the companies. Maybe the idea is to just create a premium brand Google running Android even if every device sold loses money. Kind of like what Acura has to do with the NSX. It's an attempt to push the brand into a premium device discussion.
However, I definitely don't see anything that premium in the device. I don't see anything that premium in an iPhone either except that the lemmings have decided it is a premium product so like the unreliable Mercedes Benz cars out there, they retain resale value. At some point it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
To achieve a perception of being a premium product like Apple products, Google probably has to fire most of the tech guys running the hardware division and hire a real marketing team. The Oct 4 presentation was astonishingly lackluster. Same amount of glamour as a BlackBerry presentation. Bunch of geeks thinking just because they have a search engine cash cow, they must know everything else there is to know about the business world.
Honestly what the Nexus/pixel and allo/duo/messenger/hangouts mess should teach us is that these guys like going back to the drawing board way too often. This is not a mature company and will abandon loyal customers without hesitation if someone decides that's the cool thing to do. Project Fi customers, you will be next.
So in a nutshell don't over analyze Google, it's just a bunch of high school kids doing experiments in a Chemistry Lab. At some point there will be purple foam and a few explosions.
And there is no point hitching yourself to this wagon. Don't buy anything Google tries to market as premium. They don't have the discipline to maintain a message. Eventually everything they sell will be priced like a commodity.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA-Developers mobile app

might want to modify the thread title's date. It's currently "10/5/16-4/5/16"; I'm pretty sure you meant "10/5/16-4/5/17"

First device with SD821? Not.

Google/Nexus phones were successful, because they targeted a specific niche that no one else did; devs/enthusiasts/folks who wanted to tinker and modify their phones completely and without restrictions.
Pixel phones have NOTHING that is "niche" driven; they are just like Apple/Samsung/who ever, with nothing really unique(S Pen, etc) to attract anyone really..
Sure, they will get the curious newbie/Iphone/Samsung lovers, but, those folks already have alot of choices, and those choices have alot more "features" that those folks want.
So, I cant fathom how this device will be anything more than a novelty, especially at that ridiculous price point..

mikeprius said:
1. Pixel phone contains basic vanilla Android at the same price as an iPhone and Samsung with feature filled software skins.
2. Apple and Samsung both have established their product in the marketplace, unlike the Pixel. Samsung didn't get any real traction until the Galaxy S3/Note 3.........three generations in.....this is Pixel's first.
3. The biggest competitor (Galaxy/Note 7), both have expandable SD card storage and water resistance that the Pixel does not.
4. Only exclusive on Verizon, which allows only a small population to get it subsidized. (Both Apple/Samsung sell contract subsidized phones for BOTH Verizon and Sprint which creates a lower barrier to entry).
5. Google assistant which is one of its selling points, I don't see a huge immediate use for it unlike a better camera, or water resistance. There is a variant of this type of technology already out. It's called "SIRI" for iPhone and "S-Voice" for Samsung. It's been out for years and I don't know anyone personally who uses either on a daily basis. (or at all)
6. There are no "frills" to this phone. I keep saying that, however; the typically buyer of iPhone/Samsung do not know anything about the internals or the hardware. (How else would Apple get people to buy $3,000 laptops ? It's not the hardware they are buying). The phone is just too plain for mainstream appeal. Next time you see someone with a Samsung ask them if their bootloader is locked........then ask it in Japanese....you'll get the same response.
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1. If you asked a user what was the difference between Touchwiz and vanilla Android, until Material Design the only thing they said was: Samsung looks nicer. Because Holo was ugly. But Material design changed that, so now basic Android is not ugly anymore. As for the gimmicks, a casual user will only use a fraction of the TouchWiz "features", and a vanilla Android user will not be missing any of those "features".
Pixel ha nice round icons, and a praised camera. You can consider it sold.
2. From the above linked interview this is the first step to establish Pixel as a product for the masses and not just for the techies. The are planning to sell 3-4 million units (good look with that). But even that's at least one order or magnitude below of the quantity Samsung and Apple sell. Google never bragged how many units they sold, you can't find official statistics, but it's obviously "not a damn lot", that's for sure.
3. And the iPhone does not have an SD card slot. The Galaxy S6 was a mistake for Samsung in every aspect, because they took away three things in one step: SD card, removable battery and custom roms. So there was a huge uproar, much bigger if they only played with these feature one at a time.
I too prefer an SD card, coming from Samsung phones, it was given, yet after one year using a mere 32GB phone I still live. So it's not a make/brake condition for me when buying a new phone.
5. It's a gimmick like Samsung's air gestures, keep awake when reading, knock twice on top to scroll to the top. You use it once then forget it. I bet for a week or two everybody will play with the assistant then forget it.
Compared to that Google Now cards are very useful, I use the Time to work, Time home card every day, and it helps avoiding the construction that kills the city, and to decide when it's totally beyond reason to leave home.
6. There are no real "frills". There are only those that some marketing think tank succeeds in convincing you that you actually need it. The camera is a frill enough to sell it, so it's the speed. Having the hardware from the start Google could optimize it a little to be better than the other manufacturers.

It is a mess. I compare it to the failures Apple had right after the Lisa, nonsense sales prediction with a exorbitant price point.
They can partner with as many carriers as they want over there (America, the world isn't just that) or try to subsidise phones.
Worldwide subsidisation of phones is impractical. And outside America the prices are even worse.

Highway 55 said:
IMO, Nexus/Pixel is not a mess, they are simply trying to gain market share other than the developer/techie community. I would bet that they will end up partnering with all of the major carriers to sell the phones subsidized, Verizon just got the nod for release day because it is the biggest. The pixels will also come down in price from the play store as well.
As far as the Duo/allo/hangouts/messenger thing, from what I've been reading they are trying to market hangouts to the enterprise side of the mobile market. I never really used it for anything other than video calls now and again. Duo is much more convenient for video calls, although I wish they would have just incorporated it into the dialer kind of how FaceTime is on iphone. I don't know what to think about allo. It doesn't handle sms, and it doesn't do anything that other already established apps do as good or better.
I'm just going to wait it out to see if the price comes down, or if my carrier gets it. If not, oh well, I will explore other options at that time. After all I'm still paying for my N6 through January...
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
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I am not sure why they abandoned hangouts for consumers - it was quite an all encompassing product for most of us between everything it handled - it just needed some tightening and polish but we finally had SMS, Voicemail, Video calling, IM, IP Calling all in 1. Now i have too many apps - when i instead want to simplify my life. No one likes to have something they were finding useful suddenly lose features - that just reeks of big brotherism - someone else deciding whats best for me instead of considering my own inputs.
On the pixel/nexus thing though - the way they should have done it is kept the nexus line alive and added a pixel or 2 phones with slightly more premium features but at a slightly higher price, then next generation a little higher price and so on.
That would have given all of us time to adjust and experiment. You do not just increase prices and abandon the nexus line without warning. That feels like them deciding what is best for us - like apple does. Give consumers choice, price products appropriately and allow them to cross bridges on price, features etc.
This abandoning nexus and replacing it with a non vanilla high priced pixel move is too sudden. That is why it feels like they do not listen to consumers and instead impose their vision on us. Who would like that? I chose to abandon iOS to have freedom - but the more they take those away from me - the more i look at Google and say, well this is not what i wanted. Locked bootloaders - does that not go against the very foundation of Android?
Another point - this AI push through Allo/Assistant is slowly going to convert you into a data contribution toward an engine - do you actually need to pay extra to lose your privacy - should that not happen in such a way that you get a discount on other products (i.e. your phone for example) which act as the conduit for your revealing your choices to the central database/skynet?

unfortunately, the mopes who sit in the production/sales meeting, only care about looking good to their bosses/making their bosses look good, and raise profits for shareholders..
They talk about how much Apple/Samsung charge for their phones, and sell 20 times more than Google does, so they figure, hey, lets just copy their business model, and we will look like heros.
Customers needs/wants get pushed to the back of the list, and market share/greater profits are all that matters..
And yeah, it sucks that we can now pay more for another "me too" phone, and, at the same time, surrender even more of our privacy, while paying through the nose for another Apple Clone..
No thanks, never a Pixel phone for me, at ANY price..

mixedguy said:
As much as I love the Nexus and it's contributing users, they probably don't make up enough market share for Google to care. Most Nexus owners are phone enthusiasts, who make up a very small percentage of the smartphone market.
Some Pixel phones are already sold out in the Google Store, so people are buying them. It remains to be seen if it will be enough for their "Customer Satisfaction" goal but from their interview, they don't seem to feel the need to sell a whole lot in order to make that goal, at least initially.
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Nexus no..it's a small segment. Android as a whole for Google is a very small amount of their revenue. Clearly the release of the Pixel is designed to make it a more considerable source of revenue for Google. They are not very diversified at the moment. All their money is in search.
AstroDigital said:
Who knows about the price I do know the 32 Gig Nexus 6p was selling for $600 Canadian (I do not know what American pay) and in 6 months I can not see Google pricing the Pixel XL 32Gig lower. Sell more than Samsung and Apple no not believes this will every happen but different people by Samsung and Apple. People that generally never visit XDA and they are happy with whatever bloat Samsung and Apple gives them.
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The United States there are 4 primary carriers (there are others, but the big 4 are AT&T, Sprint, Verizon, and T-Mobile). Before all 4 carriers did this, but 2 still do and that is offer 24 month contracts to be signed for a subsidized phone. So for example a $800 iPhone can be bought at Verizon or Sprint for $200-$300 depending on the model, current or past, etc, etc. That's how iPhone was able to be made available in mass. There's no way the people in the US could buy these phones outright at their current cost in large populations. It's outside many people's affordability.
All these products full price are out of the affordability for nearly everyone, so either they use the contract or use payments. With exclusive Verizon, everyone will do payments or buy outright (smaller population)......many people still use the contract that I know, taking this off the table for one carrier reduces accessibility.
Also, 2 of the 4 carriers in the US are CMDA technology not GSM so unlocked phones are limited. My carrier is CMDA so I cannot buy Xperia, One plus 3, or Axon 7. If I could, I'd have bought the One plus 3. Instead I'm stuck with the Nexus or some "whitelisted" device.

istperson said:
1. If you asked a user what was the difference between Touchwiz and vanilla Android, until Material Design the only thing they said was: Samsung looks nicer. Because Holo was ugly. But Material design changed that, so now basic Android is not ugly anymore. As for the gimmicks, a casual user will only use a fraction of the TouchWiz "features", and a vanilla Android user will not be missing any of those "features".
Pixel ha nice round icons, and a praised camera. You can consider it sold.
2. From the above linked interview this is the first step to establish Pixel as a product for the masses and not just for the techies. The are planning to sell 3-4 million units (good look with that). But even that's at least one order or magnitude below of the quantity Samsung and Apple sell. Google never bragged how many units they sold, you can't find official statistics, but it's obviously "not a damn lot", that's for sure.
3. And the iPhone does not have an SD card slot. The Galaxy S6 was a mistake for Samsung in every aspect, because they took away three things in one step: SD card, removable battery and custom roms. So there was a huge uproar, much bigger if they only played with these feature one at a time.
I too prefer an SD card, coming from Samsung phones, it was given, yet after one year using a mere 32GB phone I still live. So it's not a make/brake condition for me when buying a new phone.
5. It's a gimmick like Samsung's air gestures, keep awake when reading, knock twice on top to scroll to the top. You use it once then forget it. I bet for a week or two everybody will play with the assistant then forget it.
Compared to that Google Now cards are very useful, I use the Time to work, Time home card every day, and it helps avoiding the construction that kills the city, and to decide when it's totally beyond reason to leave home.
6. There are no real "frills". There are only those that some marketing think tank succeeds in convincing you that you actually need it. The camera is a frill enough to sell it, so it's the speed. Having the hardware from the start Google could optimize it a little to be better than the other manufacturers.
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While I can laugh at most people who become enamored with gimmicks, that's what sells. The stupid air gestures, and whatever toggles Samsung has that people flock to. They have no idea what chip is in their phone. Same goes for iPhone.
Everything else you are saying are your own personal preferences, not what mainstream people want. Majority of society is easily distracted by shiny gimmicks, engages in herd mentality buying decisions, and want instant gratification........these people are not "astute buyers" by any means, but they are the people who open their wallets and purses to buy these products.............it's pathetic but that's how the market is. Samsung and iPhone meet all these "needs". Pixel does not.

mixedguy said:
According to The Verge websites interview with Google's hardware chief, Google knows the first generation Pixel phone won't sale in volumes and expects to gain little market share, apparently there is long term strategy behind the scenes with the release of these first Pixel phones. Here's a quote from that article.
"We certainly arent going to have enormous volumes out of this product. This is very first innings for us." Googles metric of success for Pixel wont be whether it picks up significant market share, but whether it can garner customer satisfaction and form retail and carrier partnerships that Google can leverage for years to come."
http://www.theverge.com/a/google-pixel-phone-new-hardware-interview-2016
As for the cancellation of Google Glass and other Google hardware, that was done by the recently hired Google hardware chief so he could bring all the hardware teams together to focus on same objectives, so it appears Google now has a sense of direction, thanks to this new hardware chief aka ex-Motorola president. Here's a quote from another interview, just for reference.
"When Osterloh, 44, came on board in mid-April, he brought Google hardware groups into one division, shuttering projects he didn't see contributing to Googles future. Now the engineers and designers from Google Glass, Chromecast and Pixel all work together. Keeping them separate, he says, made it hard to drive toward the goal of portfolio strategy and focus."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-google-s-first-real-threat-to-apple-s-iphone
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The Google glass and other hardware that they were experimenting with does make sense b/c it was untested and they were looking at pioneering a new potential product. There's no existing prior benchmark. That has more leeway including cancellation which I understand. I think long-term it is a good idea Google has more control over the hardware and not just software because there has been too much fragmentation across the board in devices and with other Google products.
With that said, smartphones have been out for many years now, with the saturation really beginning to take hold in 2009 and forward (where more and more people were rapidly buying smartphones). There's enough data they could have made a more intelligent analysis on how to price the product (which I suspect is way too high).

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