I've been talking a lot with my friends about this who are also Android users. I know there are a lot of opinions about the Pixel, so I thought it would be interesting to make a thread to check back on in 6 months from launch to see how things panned out. At the end of the day either Google is correct with this phone, or the community was right in predicting the change. I figured 6 months is enough time to get the phone in the pipeline and where a price cut would be susceptible if one were to occur.
Here's my analysis:
Existing problems:
1. Pixel phone contains basic vanilla Android at the same price as an iPhone and Samsung with feature filled software skins.
2. Apple and Samsung both have established their product in the marketplace, unlike the Pixel. Samsung didn't get any real traction until the Galaxy S3/Note 3.........three generations in.....this is Pixel's first.
3. The biggest competitor (Galaxy/Note 7), both have expandable SD card storage and water resistance that the Pixel does not.
4. Only exclusive on Verizon, which allows only a small population to get it subsidized. (Both Apple/Samsung sell contract subsidized phones for BOTH Verizon and Sprint which creates a lower barrier to entry).
5. Google assistant which is one of its selling points, I don't see a huge immediate use for it unlike a better camera, or water resistance. There is a variant of this type of technology already out. It's called "SIRI" for iPhone and "S-Voice" for Samsung. It's been out for years and I don't know anyone personally who uses either on a daily basis. (or at all)
6. There are no "frills" to this phone. I keep saying that, however; the typically buyer of iPhone/Samsung do not know anything about the internals or the hardware. (How else would Apple get people to buy $3,000 laptops ? It's not the hardware they are buying). The phone is just too plain for mainstream appeal. Next time you see someone with a Samsung ask them if their bootloader is locked........then ask it in Japanese....you'll get the same response.
Pixel is taking aim at "mainstream", yet offering very little in terms of "frills" that mainstream typically likes yet charging flagship pricing. There is already a significant conflict in this strategy.
It's obvious based on the chart I uploaded Google's competency is not hardware unlike Apple......which would explain a lot. While I love Android, it's a small revenue of their overall revenue. Most likely, they are looking to diversify from just search and add to the bottom line as well from the smartphone market. It's very bold to try and compete against Apple that gets 53% of their overall revenue from iPhone alone, when Google has very little experience in that area (hardware).
Prediction:
In 6 months (or less), the Pixel phones will get price cuts to the same price as the 5x ($379) and 6p ($499). The phone won't be a flop and Google will keep it, but the price point was set too high. I don't think the phone is a total bust, but I do think with 99% certainty that this was priced too high to be competitive........Google just doesn't know it yet
Google right now can't even manage a proper messenger app (messenger, hangouts, allo.....seriously which one am I supposed to use Google ?), canceled Project Ara, canceled Google Glass, etc.......there's a lack of direction with the company needless to say.
Edit: Google search for Pixel compared to iPhone and Galaxy S7 (I left out Note 7 due to exploding battery interest) which has fallen off a cliff since the Pixel debut.
great post =) I agree with you
Well written. Very clear.
For me there is also a design problem.
The material design is too white and hurts my eyes especially in the evening. A dark theme is needed. So I am using Aquamail and not Gmail and apps with a dark theme. And black layers.
Maybe the Chinese will produce a better and cheaper phone. Who knows.
Maybe G is heading to a closed system ?
Or it could be the repeat of Google Pixel C with temporary "developer" discounts before the price goes back to list price. They don't seem to be too bothered about shifting stock.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA-Developers mobile app
According to The Verge websites interview with Google's hardware chief, Google knows the first generation Pixel phone won't sale in volumes and expects to gain little market share, apparently there is long term strategy behind the scenes with the release of these first Pixel phones. Here's a quote from that article.
"We certainly arent going to have enormous volumes out of this product. This is very first innings for us." Googles metric of success for Pixel wont be whether it picks up significant market share, but whether it can garner customer satisfaction and form retail and carrier partnerships that Google can leverage for years to come."
http://www.theverge.com/a/google-pixel-phone-new-hardware-interview-2016
As for the cancellation of Google Glass and other Google hardware, that was done by the recently hired Google hardware chief so he could bring all the hardware teams together to focus on same objectives, so it appears Google now has a sense of direction, thanks to this new hardware chief aka ex-Motorola president. Here's a quote from another interview, just for reference.
"When Osterloh, 44, came on board in mid-April, he brought Google hardware groups into one division, shuttering projects he didn't see contributing to Googles future. Now the engineers and designers from Google Glass, Chromecast and Pixel all work together. Keeping them separate, he says, made it hard to drive toward the goal of portfolio strategy and focus."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-google-s-first-real-threat-to-apple-s-iphone
In order to gain customer satisfaction they need to have customers, and the feedback everywhere I look is that they've already caused dissatisfaction with their prices and therefore won't have a solid customer base - especially after alienating so many Nexus owners with the ludicrous six-week Nougat delay and the dropping of the Nexus line.
dahawthorne said:
In order to gain customer satisfaction they need to have customers, and the feedback everywhere I look is that they've already caused dissatisfaction with their prices and therefore won't have a solid customer base - especially after alienating so many Nexus owners with the ludicrous six-week Nougat delay and the dropping of the Nexus line.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As much as I love the Nexus and it's contributing users, they probably don't make up enough market share for Google to care. Most Nexus owners are phone enthusiasts, who make up a very small percentage of the smartphone market.
Some Pixel phones are already sold out in the Google Store, so people are buying them. It remains to be seen if it will be enough for their "Customer Satisfaction" goal but from their interview, they don't seem to feel the need to sell a whole lot in order to make that goal, at least initially.
mikeprius said:
I've been talking a lot with my friends about this who are also Android users. I know there are a lot of opinions about the Pixel, so I thought it would be interesting to make a thread to check back on in 6 months from launch to see how things panned out. At the end of the day either Google is correct with this phone, or the community was right in predicting the change. I figured 6 months is enough time to get the phone in the pipeline and where a price cut would be susceptible if one were to occur.
Here's my analysis:
Existing problems:
1. Pixel phone contains basic vanilla Android at the same price as an iPhone and Samsung with feature filled software skins.
This is called Bloat to me basic vanilla Android is a huge plus
2. Apple and Samsung both have established their product in the marketplace, unlike the Pixel. Samsung didn't get any real traction until the Galaxy S3/Note 3.........three generations in.....this is Pixel's first.
Even though Samsungs are some of the most bloated locked down devices and iPhones are not Android devices Google with Pixel branding I just a continuation. I do agree more Samsung Devices and iPhones will be sold but so what?
3. The biggest competitor (Galaxy/Note 7), both have expandable SD card storage and water resistance that the Pixel does not.
My new phone will have 128Gig do I really need more, unlimited cloud storage for photos will help too
4. Only exclusive on Verizon, which allows only a small population to get it subsidized. (Both Apple/Samsung sell contract subsidized phones for BOTH Verizon and Sprint which creates a lower barrier to entry).
I am not American but they do sell SIM unlocked devices in the States do they not?
5. Google assistant which is one of its selling points, I don't see a huge immediate use for it unlike a better camera, or water resistance. There is a variant of this type of technology already out. It's called "SIRI" for iPhone and "S-Voice" for Samsung. It's been out for years and I don't know anyone personally who uses either on a daily basis. (or at all)
I owned 16 smartphones since the iPhone and not once did lack of water resistance bother me and I had zero devices with water damage. Google Assist can not see me using it often but only time will tell
6. There are no "frills" to this phone. I keep saying that, however; the typically buyer of iPhone/Samsung do not know anything about the internals or the hardware. (How else would Apple get people to buy $3,000 laptops ? It's not the hardware they are buying). The phone is just too plain for mainstream appeal. Next time you see someone with a Samsung ask them if their bootloader is locked........then ask it in Japanese....you'll get the same response.
First to get Android updates, first device with Qualcomm 821, first with official daydream support, and yes at least some say this will have the best camera
Pixel is taking aim at "mainstream", yet offering very little in terms of "frills" that mainstream typically likes yet charging flagship pricing. There is already a significant conflict in this strategy.
Why do you think they are gearing this for the mainstream, they never had in the past?
It's obvious based on the chart I uploaded Google's competency is not hardware unlike Apple......which would explain a lot. While I love Android, it's a small revenue of their overall revenue. Most likely, they are looking to diversify from just search and add to the bottom line as well from the smartphone market. It's very bold to try and compete against Apple that gets 53% of their overall revenue from iPhone alone, when Google has very little experience in that area (hardware).
Google builds nothing they are contracting HTC to build the Pixel, Pixel XL. Nobody expects them every to sell more of the current Pixel phones than Apple sells
Prediction:
In 6 months (or less), the Pixel phones will get price cuts to the same price as the 5x ($379) and 6p ($499). The phone won't be a flop and Google will keep it, but the price point was set too high. I don't think the phone is a total bust, but I do think with 99% certainty that this was priced too high to be competitive........Google just doesn't know it yet
Google right now can't even manage a proper messenger app (messenger, hangouts, allo.....seriously which one am I supposed to use Google ?), canceled Project Ara, canceled Google Glass, etc.......there's a lack of direction with the company needless to say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who knows about the price I do know the 32 Gig Nexus 6p was selling for $600 Canadian (I do not know what American pay) and in 6 months I can not see Google pricing the Pixel XL 32Gig lower. Sell more than Samsung and Apple no not believes this will every happen but different people by Samsung and Apple. People that generally never visit XDA and they are happy with whatever bloat Samsung and Apple gives them.
Maybe they are trying to create the equivalent of surface devices like Microsoft? I have no clue how that helps either of the companies. Maybe the idea is to just create a premium brand Google running Android even if every device sold loses money. Kind of like what Acura has to do with the NSX. It's an attempt to push the brand into a premium device discussion.
However, I definitely don't see anything that premium in the device. I don't see anything that premium in an iPhone either except that the lemmings have decided it is a premium product so like the unreliable Mercedes Benz cars out there, they retain resale value. At some point it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
To achieve a perception of being a premium product like Apple products, Google probably has to fire most of the tech guys running the hardware division and hire a real marketing team. The Oct 4 presentation was astonishingly lackluster. Same amount of glamour as a BlackBerry presentation. Bunch of geeks thinking just because they have a search engine cash cow, they must know everything else there is to know about the business world.
Honestly what the Nexus/pixel and allo/duo/messenger/hangouts mess should teach us is that these guys like going back to the drawing board way too often. This is not a mature company and will abandon loyal customers without hesitation if someone decides that's the cool thing to do. Project Fi customers, you will be next.
So in a nutshell don't over analyze Google, it's just a bunch of high school kids doing experiments in a Chemistry Lab. At some point there will be purple foam and a few explosions.
And there is no point hitching yourself to this wagon. Don't buy anything Google tries to market as premium. They don't have the discipline to maintain a message. Eventually everything they sell will be priced like a commodity.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA-Developers mobile app
might want to modify the thread title's date. It's currently "10/5/16-4/5/16"; I'm pretty sure you meant "10/5/16-4/5/17"
First device with SD821? Not.
Google/Nexus phones were successful, because they targeted a specific niche that no one else did; devs/enthusiasts/folks who wanted to tinker and modify their phones completely and without restrictions.
Pixel phones have NOTHING that is "niche" driven; they are just like Apple/Samsung/who ever, with nothing really unique(S Pen, etc) to attract anyone really..
Sure, they will get the curious newbie/Iphone/Samsung lovers, but, those folks already have alot of choices, and those choices have alot more "features" that those folks want.
So, I cant fathom how this device will be anything more than a novelty, especially at that ridiculous price point..
mikeprius said:
I've been talking a lot with my friends about this who are also Android users. I know there are a lot of opinions about the Pixel, so I thought it would be interesting to make a thread to check back on in 6 months from launch to see how things panned out. At the end of the day either Google is correct with this phone, or the community was right in predicting the change. I figured 6 months is enough time to get the phone in the pipeline and where a price cut would be susceptible if one were to occur.
Yadda, yadda, yadda............................................[emoji23]
.
Google right now can't even manage a proper messenger app (messenger, hangouts, allo.....seriously which one am I supposed to use Google ?), canceled Project Ara, canceled Google Glass, etc.......there's a lack of direction with the company needless to say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great post! Lots of info there. [SARCASM] You might have a bit too much time on your hands though. [emoji1] [/SARCASM]
khanam said:
Honestly what the Nexus/pixel and allo/duo/messenger/hangouts mess should teach us is that these guys like going back to the drawing board way too often. This is not a mature company and will abandon loyal customers without hesitation if someone decides that's the cool thing to do. Project Fi customers, you will be next.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMO, Nexus/Pixel is not a mess, they are simply trying to gain market share other than the developer/techie community. I would bet that they will end up partnering with all of the major carriers to sell the phones subsidized, Verizon just got the nod for release day because it is the biggest. The pixels will also come down in price from the play store as well.
As far as the Duo/allo/hangouts/messenger thing, from what I've been reading they are trying to market hangouts to the enterprise side of the mobile market. I never really used it for anything other than video calls now and again. Duo is much more convenient for video calls, although I wish they would have just incorporated it into the dialer kind of how FaceTime is on iphone. I don't know what to think about allo. It doesn't handle sms, and it doesn't do anything that other already established apps do as good or better.
I'm just going to wait it out to see if the price comes down, or if my carrier gets it. If not, oh well, I will explore other options at that time. After all I'm still paying for my N6 through January...
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
mikeprius said:
1. Pixel phone contains basic vanilla Android at the same price as an iPhone and Samsung with feature filled software skins.
2. Apple and Samsung both have established their product in the marketplace, unlike the Pixel. Samsung didn't get any real traction until the Galaxy S3/Note 3.........three generations in.....this is Pixel's first.
3. The biggest competitor (Galaxy/Note 7), both have expandable SD card storage and water resistance that the Pixel does not.
4. Only exclusive on Verizon, which allows only a small population to get it subsidized. (Both Apple/Samsung sell contract subsidized phones for BOTH Verizon and Sprint which creates a lower barrier to entry).
5. Google assistant which is one of its selling points, I don't see a huge immediate use for it unlike a better camera, or water resistance. There is a variant of this type of technology already out. It's called "SIRI" for iPhone and "S-Voice" for Samsung. It's been out for years and I don't know anyone personally who uses either on a daily basis. (or at all)
6. There are no "frills" to this phone. I keep saying that, however; the typically buyer of iPhone/Samsung do not know anything about the internals or the hardware. (How else would Apple get people to buy $3,000 laptops ? It's not the hardware they are buying). The phone is just too plain for mainstream appeal. Next time you see someone with a Samsung ask them if their bootloader is locked........then ask it in Japanese....you'll get the same response.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. If you asked a user what was the difference between Touchwiz and vanilla Android, until Material Design the only thing they said was: Samsung looks nicer. Because Holo was ugly. But Material design changed that, so now basic Android is not ugly anymore. As for the gimmicks, a casual user will only use a fraction of the TouchWiz "features", and a vanilla Android user will not be missing any of those "features".
Pixel ha nice round icons, and a praised camera. You can consider it sold.
2. From the above linked interview this is the first step to establish Pixel as a product for the masses and not just for the techies. The are planning to sell 3-4 million units (good look with that). But even that's at least one order or magnitude below of the quantity Samsung and Apple sell. Google never bragged how many units they sold, you can't find official statistics, but it's obviously "not a damn lot", that's for sure.
3. And the iPhone does not have an SD card slot. The Galaxy S6 was a mistake for Samsung in every aspect, because they took away three things in one step: SD card, removable battery and custom roms. So there was a huge uproar, much bigger if they only played with these feature one at a time.
I too prefer an SD card, coming from Samsung phones, it was given, yet after one year using a mere 32GB phone I still live. So it's not a make/brake condition for me when buying a new phone.
5. It's a gimmick like Samsung's air gestures, keep awake when reading, knock twice on top to scroll to the top. You use it once then forget it. I bet for a week or two everybody will play with the assistant then forget it.
Compared to that Google Now cards are very useful, I use the Time to work, Time home card every day, and it helps avoiding the construction that kills the city, and to decide when it's totally beyond reason to leave home.
6. There are no real "frills". There are only those that some marketing think tank succeeds in convincing you that you actually need it. The camera is a frill enough to sell it, so it's the speed. Having the hardware from the start Google could optimize it a little to be better than the other manufacturers.
It is a mess. I compare it to the failures Apple had right after the Lisa, nonsense sales prediction with a exorbitant price point.
They can partner with as many carriers as they want over there (America, the world isn't just that) or try to subsidise phones.
Worldwide subsidisation of phones is impractical. And outside America the prices are even worse.
Highway 55 said:
IMO, Nexus/Pixel is not a mess, they are simply trying to gain market share other than the developer/techie community. I would bet that they will end up partnering with all of the major carriers to sell the phones subsidized, Verizon just got the nod for release day because it is the biggest. The pixels will also come down in price from the play store as well.
As far as the Duo/allo/hangouts/messenger thing, from what I've been reading they are trying to market hangouts to the enterprise side of the mobile market. I never really used it for anything other than video calls now and again. Duo is much more convenient for video calls, although I wish they would have just incorporated it into the dialer kind of how FaceTime is on iphone. I don't know what to think about allo. It doesn't handle sms, and it doesn't do anything that other already established apps do as good or better.
I'm just going to wait it out to see if the price comes down, or if my carrier gets it. If not, oh well, I will explore other options at that time. After all I'm still paying for my N6 through January...
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not sure why they abandoned hangouts for consumers - it was quite an all encompassing product for most of us between everything it handled - it just needed some tightening and polish but we finally had SMS, Voicemail, Video calling, IM, IP Calling all in 1. Now i have too many apps - when i instead want to simplify my life. No one likes to have something they were finding useful suddenly lose features - that just reeks of big brotherism - someone else deciding whats best for me instead of considering my own inputs.
On the pixel/nexus thing though - the way they should have done it is kept the nexus line alive and added a pixel or 2 phones with slightly more premium features but at a slightly higher price, then next generation a little higher price and so on.
That would have given all of us time to adjust and experiment. You do not just increase prices and abandon the nexus line without warning. That feels like them deciding what is best for us - like apple does. Give consumers choice, price products appropriately and allow them to cross bridges on price, features etc.
This abandoning nexus and replacing it with a non vanilla high priced pixel move is too sudden. That is why it feels like they do not listen to consumers and instead impose their vision on us. Who would like that? I chose to abandon iOS to have freedom - but the more they take those away from me - the more i look at Google and say, well this is not what i wanted. Locked bootloaders - does that not go against the very foundation of Android?
Another point - this AI push through Allo/Assistant is slowly going to convert you into a data contribution toward an engine - do you actually need to pay extra to lose your privacy - should that not happen in such a way that you get a discount on other products (i.e. your phone for example) which act as the conduit for your revealing your choices to the central database/skynet?
unfortunately, the mopes who sit in the production/sales meeting, only care about looking good to their bosses/making their bosses look good, and raise profits for shareholders..
They talk about how much Apple/Samsung charge for their phones, and sell 20 times more than Google does, so they figure, hey, lets just copy their business model, and we will look like heros.
Customers needs/wants get pushed to the back of the list, and market share/greater profits are all that matters..
And yeah, it sucks that we can now pay more for another "me too" phone, and, at the same time, surrender even more of our privacy, while paying through the nose for another Apple Clone..
No thanks, never a Pixel phone for me, at ANY price..
mixedguy said:
As much as I love the Nexus and it's contributing users, they probably don't make up enough market share for Google to care. Most Nexus owners are phone enthusiasts, who make up a very small percentage of the smartphone market.
Some Pixel phones are already sold out in the Google Store, so people are buying them. It remains to be seen if it will be enough for their "Customer Satisfaction" goal but from their interview, they don't seem to feel the need to sell a whole lot in order to make that goal, at least initially.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nexus no..it's a small segment. Android as a whole for Google is a very small amount of their revenue. Clearly the release of the Pixel is designed to make it a more considerable source of revenue for Google. They are not very diversified at the moment. All their money is in search.
AstroDigital said:
Who knows about the price I do know the 32 Gig Nexus 6p was selling for $600 Canadian (I do not know what American pay) and in 6 months I can not see Google pricing the Pixel XL 32Gig lower. Sell more than Samsung and Apple no not believes this will every happen but different people by Samsung and Apple. People that generally never visit XDA and they are happy with whatever bloat Samsung and Apple gives them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The United States there are 4 primary carriers (there are others, but the big 4 are AT&T, Sprint, Verizon, and T-Mobile). Before all 4 carriers did this, but 2 still do and that is offer 24 month contracts to be signed for a subsidized phone. So for example a $800 iPhone can be bought at Verizon or Sprint for $200-$300 depending on the model, current or past, etc, etc. That's how iPhone was able to be made available in mass. There's no way the people in the US could buy these phones outright at their current cost in large populations. It's outside many people's affordability.
All these products full price are out of the affordability for nearly everyone, so either they use the contract or use payments. With exclusive Verizon, everyone will do payments or buy outright (smaller population)......many people still use the contract that I know, taking this off the table for one carrier reduces accessibility.
Also, 2 of the 4 carriers in the US are CMDA technology not GSM so unlocked phones are limited. My carrier is CMDA so I cannot buy Xperia, One plus 3, or Axon 7. If I could, I'd have bought the One plus 3. Instead I'm stuck with the Nexus or some "whitelisted" device.
istperson said:
1. If you asked a user what was the difference between Touchwiz and vanilla Android, until Material Design the only thing they said was: Samsung looks nicer. Because Holo was ugly. But Material design changed that, so now basic Android is not ugly anymore. As for the gimmicks, a casual user will only use a fraction of the TouchWiz "features", and a vanilla Android user will not be missing any of those "features".
Pixel ha nice round icons, and a praised camera. You can consider it sold.
2. From the above linked interview this is the first step to establish Pixel as a product for the masses and not just for the techies. The are planning to sell 3-4 million units (good look with that). But even that's at least one order or magnitude below of the quantity Samsung and Apple sell. Google never bragged how many units they sold, you can't find official statistics, but it's obviously "not a damn lot", that's for sure.
3. And the iPhone does not have an SD card slot. The Galaxy S6 was a mistake for Samsung in every aspect, because they took away three things in one step: SD card, removable battery and custom roms. So there was a huge uproar, much bigger if they only played with these feature one at a time.
I too prefer an SD card, coming from Samsung phones, it was given, yet after one year using a mere 32GB phone I still live. So it's not a make/brake condition for me when buying a new phone.
5. It's a gimmick like Samsung's air gestures, keep awake when reading, knock twice on top to scroll to the top. You use it once then forget it. I bet for a week or two everybody will play with the assistant then forget it.
Compared to that Google Now cards are very useful, I use the Time to work, Time home card every day, and it helps avoiding the construction that kills the city, and to decide when it's totally beyond reason to leave home.
6. There are no real "frills". There are only those that some marketing think tank succeeds in convincing you that you actually need it. The camera is a frill enough to sell it, so it's the speed. Having the hardware from the start Google could optimize it a little to be better than the other manufacturers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I can laugh at most people who become enamored with gimmicks, that's what sells. The stupid air gestures, and whatever toggles Samsung has that people flock to. They have no idea what chip is in their phone. Same goes for iPhone.
Everything else you are saying are your own personal preferences, not what mainstream people want. Majority of society is easily distracted by shiny gimmicks, engages in herd mentality buying decisions, and want instant gratification........these people are not "astute buyers" by any means, but they are the people who open their wallets and purses to buy these products.............it's pathetic but that's how the market is. Samsung and iPhone meet all these "needs". Pixel does not.
mixedguy said:
According to The Verge websites interview with Google's hardware chief, Google knows the first generation Pixel phone won't sale in volumes and expects to gain little market share, apparently there is long term strategy behind the scenes with the release of these first Pixel phones. Here's a quote from that article.
"We certainly arent going to have enormous volumes out of this product. This is very first innings for us." Googles metric of success for Pixel wont be whether it picks up significant market share, but whether it can garner customer satisfaction and form retail and carrier partnerships that Google can leverage for years to come."
http://www.theverge.com/a/google-pixel-phone-new-hardware-interview-2016
As for the cancellation of Google Glass and other Google hardware, that was done by the recently hired Google hardware chief so he could bring all the hardware teams together to focus on same objectives, so it appears Google now has a sense of direction, thanks to this new hardware chief aka ex-Motorola president. Here's a quote from another interview, just for reference.
"When Osterloh, 44, came on board in mid-April, he brought Google hardware groups into one division, shuttering projects he didn't see contributing to Googles future. Now the engineers and designers from Google Glass, Chromecast and Pixel all work together. Keeping them separate, he says, made it hard to drive toward the goal of portfolio strategy and focus."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-google-s-first-real-threat-to-apple-s-iphone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Google glass and other hardware that they were experimenting with does make sense b/c it was untested and they were looking at pioneering a new potential product. There's no existing prior benchmark. That has more leeway including cancellation which I understand. I think long-term it is a good idea Google has more control over the hardware and not just software because there has been too much fragmentation across the board in devices and with other Google products.
With that said, smartphones have been out for many years now, with the saturation really beginning to take hold in 2009 and forward (where more and more people were rapidly buying smartphones). There's enough data they could have made a more intelligent analysis on how to price the product (which I suspect is way too high).
Related
http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/03/26/t.mobile.hd2.may.be.runaway.success/
Although selling 21k units at launch isn't THAT impressive, the fact that it sold out is pretty impressive. T-mobile either purposely kept a short supply of them to create marketing buzz when it sells out, or they miscalculated the demand for the phone and didn't stock enough.
Whatever the case is, the HD2 is being well received here in the states.....I've gotten compliments on it here and there as I've been out and about. A lot of people saying 'I hear its better than the iPhone.' I pull out my iPhone and I tell them 'it is'.
mystik610 said:
http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/03/26/t.mobile.hd2.may.be.runaway.success/
Although selling 21k units at launch isn't THAT impressive, the fact that it sold out is pretty impressive. T-mobile either purposely kept a short supply of them to create marketing buzz when it sells out, or they miscalculated the demand for the phone and didn't stock enough.
Whatever the case is, the HD2 is being well received here in the states.....I've gotten compliments on it here and there as I've been out and about. A lot of people saying 'I hear its better than the iPhone.' I pull out my iPhone and I tell them 'it is'.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i wonder why? i mean there hasn't been not as much commercials as the nexus1? and the nexus 1 sold about 20k in 1 month i think?
well myself loves the HTC brand first one was the 8525 aka the brick lol....this one with some custom work will be great it think
shu8i said:
i wonder why? i mean there hasn't been not as much commercials as the nexus1? and the nexus 1 sold about 20k in 1 month i think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Nexus 1 is an excellent device...and really represents the best technology that's available for mobile phones. As a device its great, but from a marketing/distribution perspective, its a flop. Google has had an enourmous amount of success in the software/digital/web marketspace. 'Google' is a household word now and the word 'google' itself has become an adjective for looking something up on the internet. 'Google it'. Android is really taking off and showing a lot of promise, and is posing enough of a threat to Apple and Microsoft , and are forcing them to react. Apple is reacting in the form of lawsuits, Microsoft in the form of WP7.
The problem with the Nexus 1 is that google tried to apply concepts that led to their success in the software arena to the software/digital arena to the hardware arena. A lot of the success of Android is attributed to its open-source nature...its ability to grow and evolved without being inhibited to a closed platform. They tried to apply a similar concept to the Nexus 1 by trying to circumvent carriers and selling the phone directly through their website. They believed that carriers inhibit the growth of mobile devices.
In the end, they overlooked the importance of being able to go to a store and experience of phone first-hand. The beauty of the AMOLED screen is something you can only appreciate if you see it in person. They also overlooked the importance of having actual people marketing, selling, and flat-out educating people about the device. They can only sell so many units by relying on the tech-savvy folks who would go out of their way to follow and research the device online.
Beyond that, the market is saturated with Android phones, and by putting Android on so many platforms, they end up indirectly competing with their hardware partners (ie droid outselling the Nexus 1). This is in stark contrast to the iPhone, where they alone sell only 1 version of the iPhone and mobile OSX themselves. Why do you think the iPhone's sales figures look as good as they do?
http://asia.cnet.com/blogs/rehashplus/post.htm?id=63019568&scid=rvhm_ms
Gen 3 (Nexus One) came out mere weeks after the Milestone, using state-of-the-art technology not proven in the market. A shock to Motorola, certainly a shock to me, and I bought the Nexus One immediately when the specs were confirmed. How did it leapfrog Motorola's efforts? Probably because whoever made the Nexus One did not need to justify anything, project profits, etc. The only thing they needed to do was to make the Nexus COOL and to make it the bee's knees.
By all estimates, the Nexus One was a failure. Just because it had small sales numbers, limited distribution by telcos. But anyone who wanted it can buy it. For most people outside of the US, it's expensive like hell because it has none of the telco subsidy bull****. But it has no locks, no telco overlays, no badly customized custom user interfaces, it's easy to root, to hack, and to make it the phone of your dreams. It's the best handset I ever owned. Ever. Speaking of today, of course.
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The bolded really hit home.
I sincerely hope Google doesnt flat out give up on it. That they do have a sequel that will be available to all carriers. Nexus One pushed everything forward and back to back with the Droid legitimized Android as a premiere (and to many) THE premiere mobile OS. The amount of powerful handsets that have been dropped the last 7 months is ridiculous and only due to Android. Otherwise we'd still be stuck on Winmo 6.5 , an iPhone with no retina display or multitasking ,or a dead WebOS. Regardless of sales figures the Nexus one was the most important handset to drop this year.
Sadly because of those low sales figures Im not sure if we'll actually see a pure Google Nexus 2.
All these phones without colored trackballs have me worried too =-O.
p.s leave some comments...I tend to support bloggers/writers who can write without gross bias. This guy also happens to love N1.
Generally agree, except for the part of "By all estimates, the Nexus One was a failure". Low sales number don't equal failure. Look at PS3, they just broke even on that thing, and they sold A LOT.
Besides, google never planned to make money on phones. They are not htc. They don't make phones. They plan to make money on the OS and partnerships with manufacturers who want to run Android (+ google ads).
People forget that Nexus One, although branded as google phone, is actually an htc headset.
DarkDvr said:
Generally agree, except for the part of "By all estimates, the Nexus One was a failure". Low sales number don't equal failure. Look at PS3, they just broke even on that thing, and they sold A LOT.
Besides, google never planned to make money on phones. They are not htc. They don't make phones. They plan to make money on the OS and partnerships with manufacturers who want to run Android (+ google ads).
People forget that Nexus One, although branded as google phone, is actually an htc headset.
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Click to collapse
It didnt shake anything up.
Most people have no Fn clue wth a Nexus One is.
Sales figures were laughable.
Thats what people will measure it by.
As a piece of technology it was massive success. Considering the BRUTAL bias and flat out bogus reviews it received , the 3g, wonky soft buttons , and MT problems you'd expect it to be a total dud.It was anything but.
xManMythLegend said:
It didnt shake anything up.
Most people have no Fn clue wth a Nexus One is.
Sales figures were laughable.
Thats what people will measure it by.
As a piece of technology it was massive success. Considering the BRUTAL bias and flat out bogus reviews it received , the 3g, wonky soft buttons , and MT problems you'd expect it to be a total dud.It was anything but.
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Click to collapse
True, but I think we have to understand that goal was never to sell millions of Nexus Ones and make tons of money. N1 is kinda like a Android demo phone. Something that manufacturers and interested developers/users can try and see where Android is going, what it really is. That's the real goal, not to sell it as a regular money-making gizmo.
I think in that sense, N1 was a huge success. Think about it. Manuf. and developers tried it out, and loved it. Proof is that immediately manufacturers like htc, motorola and samsung (not even mentioning logitech, gm, cisco...) jumped on the bandwagon, seeing the potential in it.
I think the real hardware "money makers" were always intended to be Evo 4G, Galaxy S, some lower-end android phones that AT&T is launching.. Those are your standard gizmos whos success you can measure in sales numbers.
G1 -> Nexus One are special, their success is not to be measured in sales, but in exposure and future developments.
I have yet to handle any phone that feels as solid and expensive as my Nexus One.
I'd love to get my hands on a Nexus Two.
It doesn't even have spec rumors yet and I want it. I love the openness of it and that it's the one that gets Googles focus. Love it!
There won't be a nexus two.
Google is sitting on a pile of Nexus Ones and is trying to unload them anyway they can. It's painfully obvious retail hardware is not a business they want to further pursue.
Your best bet for another phone as open as the nexus will be the next developer phone, or something from Nokia's brand.
Google, give me a Nexus Two with the following:
4.3" Screen (720p-ish resolution)
Next-gen processor (hummingbird? or one of those duel-core cpus?)
768+ MB of RAM/ROM
Front Facing camera (VGA is fine)
8+ MP regular camera
Optical trackpad (see blackberry)
Hardware back, menu, home, search buttons
HDMI out
8GB internal storage (16 would be nice too )
Google have never actually said that the Nexus One was a failure right? They said that the Web Store is a failure as it didn't meet their expectations. The Nexus One not selling so many units is because it was only available on a failing web store. When Google announced they were closing the web store they said that Nexus One's will be sold in retail stores, they didn't say they are discontinuing the product like how Microsoft have with the Kin phones.
And Google have said that the reason the Nexus One didn't appear on Verizon and Sprint was because Google changed the sales model early on (choosing to close the web store but announcing it much later) and as the networks were going to get equivalent phones to the Nexus One, Google and the networks decided to pull out. I reckon the reason why the Nexus One was delayed so much on the Vodafone network was due to the fact that Google were changing their sales model.
However the Nexus One did achieve a goal of pushing manufactures to produce high quality phones. The Nexus One specs are now like a minimum for all future smartphones.
The nexus one was being produced at the same time as all the other HTC lineup, it's actually the lower end of HTC current snapdragon line.
Had google not bid on this specific model, we would proably be seeing this exact phone Labeled T-Mobile MyTouch HD or something without and unlockable bootloader.
do you guys honestly think google expected to sell millions of nexus one's when all they did is throw up a few ads on a few websites? they didnt do any primetime TV ads, nothing. you honestly think that google didnt do that on purpose? no way would they have expected huge sales with that kind of marketing platform (or lack thereof). they wanted a develper phone, and that's what they got. of course if they bought primetime TV space like apple does, then they would have sold a lot more. i dont see how people fail to see this logic.
JCopernicus said:
There won't be a nexus two.
Google is sitting on a pile of Nexus Ones and is trying to unload them anyway they can. It's painfully obvious retail hardware is not a business they want to further pursue.
Your best bet for another phone as open as the nexus will be the next developer phone, or something from Nokia's brand.
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If that'd be true in any way, u'd see discounted prices and specials for N1.
Do you? Cause if you find one, I'd love to be proven wrong (my friend wants nothing but N1 now).
DarkDvr said:
If that'd be true in any way, u'd see discounted prices and specials for N1.
Do you? Cause if you find one, I'd love to be proven wrong (my friend wants nothing but N1 now).
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They still have an investment in them, they're not going to willingly lose that money.
My comment was directed at their current strategy of selling them in "retail stores all over the place".
RogerPodacter said:
do you guys honestly think google expected to sell millions of nexus one's when all they did is throw up a few ads on a few websites? they didnt do any primetime TV ads, nothing. you honestly think that google didnt do that on purpose? no way would they have expected huge sales with that kind of marketing platform (or lack thereof). they wanted a develper phone, and that's what they got. of course if they bought primetime TV space like apple does, then they would have sold a lot more. i dont see how people fail to see this logic.
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Click to collapse
EXACTLY. You guys are jumping on a bandwagon of "N1 was a fail". It's completely wrong. Stop believing stuff that some trolls write on a forum.
It's extremelly shallow to think that all things that are released are released to sell as many as possible. Or that pure "items sold" would give you an idea of how successfull item was.
There are many, many cases of special edition cars, stereo systems, you name it. Some items are designed and sold for a different purpose. To increase awareness, to hit a small portion of the market. To create a sense of "rarity" or "urgency", etc etc.
Want proof? Ok. Remember the GMAIL model. First year or two you could ONLY get gmail by INVITE. If you didn't know, google wrote a book on "Virus Marketing". Creating a sense of rareness, coolness and priviledge towards a certain item. It works, they're not idiots. They are doing the same thing with N1. Just enough marketing to sell them, but not enough to sate people with the idea. Think about it.
In a way, you're holding a rare (or soon to be), barely advertised, special edition Android 2 phone. Don't complain that not everyone bought one. It was never meant to be.
Besides.. don't be naive. If google (one of biggest web advertisers in the world) would want to REALLY advertise their phone... Trust you me, they'd advertise the BEJESUS out of it. They'd sell millions worldwide. That's just not their goal.
JCopernicus said:
They still have an investment in them, they're not going to willingly lose that money.
My comment was directed at their current strategy of selling them in "retail stores all over the place".
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Changing from online sales to store sales does NOT equal failed product.
Even if google indeed got dissapointed with online sale model, it doesn't mean that N1 is an epic fail, as quote from first post states.
I never said it was a failed product, they've already turned a profit on it.
Changing your primary business model shows your product wasn't a great success.
JCopernicus said:
I never said it was a failed product, they've already turned a profit on it.
Changing your primary business model shows your product wasn't a great success.
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Correct but the product that wasn't a success is the Google Web Store, not the Nexus One.
The Web Store failed, the Nexus One didn't.
Sarg92 said:
Correct but the product that wasn't a success is the Google Web Store, not the Nexus One.
The Web Store failed, the Nexus One didn't.
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This is more in general, and not directed specifically at you, Sarg, but at some of the similar comments along the same lines.
I'm pretty sure Google was aware of these things prior to selling the N1:
1 - Most people in the states buy phones subsidized from the carriers
2 - Most people don't want to shell out almost $600 for a phone
3 - The economy kinda sucks
Why would they proceed, knowing the above, if they intended the N1 to be as successful as the iPhone?
Perhaps, just perhaps, Google is aware of a small but serious community of people who love technology and want the latest and greatest. Perhaps Google's goal all along was to target a select few and push the development of the OS, the apps, and the general market for Android devices.
To me, the N1 is really like phase 2 or 3 in a lengthy strategic plan that is, in all aspects, going rather well.
1 - Secure an OS (Purchase of Android)
2 - Develop and market and OS (Release of G1)
3 - Grow the base
a - Advertise Androidb - Put out more Android devicesc - Release a killer device to spur OS, app, and marketshare development4 - Drop more serious Android devices (and we're seeing a ton now)
5 - World domination
The indent feature on 3a, b, and c didn't work quite like planned, but c'est la vie. You get the idea.
th0r615 said:
Google, give me a Nexus Two with the following:
4.3" Screen (720p-ish resolution)
Next-gen processor (hummingbird? or one of those duel-core cpus?)
768+ MB of RAM/ROM
Front Facing camera (VGA is fine)
8+ MP regular camera
Optical trackpad (see blackberry)
Hardware back, menu, home, search buttons
HDMI out
8GB internal storage (16 would be nice too )
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Click to collapse
I could imagine with Gingerbread coming in October, and the fact that the Dev 2 phone (myTouch) doesn't fit any of the requirements, that we'll see a pretty updated Dev 3 phone designed specifically for Gingerbread.
That's would make logical sense to me anyway.
I wish nexus one had more storage (4GB or higher) because it can't rely on memory card as it may fail. In addition, more storage can let me store more music on the phone itself and free the memory card for video.
Generally I am happy with nexus one and I think the migration from WM is a right decision.
Why do manufacturers pump out so many phones, with none making a real name for themselves? It seems like if HTC released maybe three phones, and every network could have them, they would get some momentum, and a franchise product; a "Name" for themselves. Because no manufacturer does this, I don't think there will ever be an Android to stand up sales wise with the iPhone.
Imo, back in June, HTC should have used the Evo name and ran with it:
Evo
Evo Compact (the Incredible)
Evo Shift
Then once a year or even bi-yearly, the whole line is updated for all carriers with sequential numbers added to the end, ala apple. Does this not seem like a better model? It must not be I assume, because it's not what is being done... but I feel like with the Evo and Incredible being such great phones they would really gain significant traction had they had similar names, and been available on all networks... Instead there is Evo, Incredible, Atria, Thunderbolt, Pyramid, etc. Really confusing.
well..
verizon is trying that with the "droid" name... notice how many have that? they have put a lot of branding to that brandname... "droid"
TMobile has the brand "mytouch"
rumor is ..
sprint will work with the "EVO" branding. EVO and EVO Shift.
Yeah, thats true, and I guess I might would add the shift to my above lineup, so they have a keyboard model... but what I meant, and i just realized I didn't make it obvious in my post was, why do they send basically the same phone with a slightly altered design and different name to different carriers, as opposed to releasing one line up to all?
Edit: So from rereading what you said, it seems like the carrier has a big say in what the name of the phone is? Or is it up to the manufacturer?
i would guess.. that the carriers have a large say in the names.
why would they make a few changes? again this is my guess.
it is a marketing thing... for PRICE specials....
if all 4 carriers had the exact same phone... then they loose some "identity". think of Yukon, Suburban, Escalade, Tahoe.
also..if one carrier has one on sale then the others will have to match the price. If not then the customers might feel a little cheated.
if different name or slight look change, the no longer have to match the price. Most dont know that they are the same; again look at the SUV example i gave.
Think about when Walmart has a Samsung LCD tv on sale.. it is model XY2100. Best Buy has the same samsung LCD XY2100B. they have the exact same specs, but the Best Buy has a chrome panel. Sorry no price match.
I 2nd this big time.
I'm in complete agreement with this OP, and in fact was thinking the exact same thing the other day.
Android has such a confusing and fragmented ecosystem that's it's not funny. I believe this is a result of the "young & wild" thinking behind the business model of the original Open Handset Alliance that Google helped form during Anrdroid's inception. Google came forth with a set of rules, but were perhaps a little too loose on their requirements. They made a set of hardware parameters that Android phones "should" utilize. And in a desperate attempt to become relevant during the iphone craze of the last few years, said "have at it, go build some Androids".
I understand the thinking behind such a model, as not everyone needs, or can afford a high end device i.e., Evo, Incredible, Droid X etc. Some people want to spend $100 or less and have a data enabled phone without giant touch screens, and 5+ MP camera functions. They just want to text, and download ringtones etc, as this is economically viable.
This model has some major pitfalls however, being that; 1) With marketing ploys like Verizon's "Droid", & 2) A new low end Android phone coming out every month -
Android as a whole becomes more and more anonymous and confusing to the average consumer. A lot of people are already walking around asking, "What the hell is Android anyway?" They know they want a smart phone, or maybe even the ubiquitous iPhone like all of their friends and family have... They hear about Android, and how cool and open it is, then go to purchase one from ATT, Sprint, Verizon, US Cellular, Tmobile, Etc... WTF, who to go with, and now, which phone! Wait, what do you mean I can only get the Galaxy Captivate on ATT? Why can I only get the Evo on Sprint, and the G2 on TMO?
Not a very fluid purchase, and then to find out that your precious phone won't be receiving the latest OS updates becomes the nail in the coffin.
This is the biggest thing I've noticed about Android since purchasing my Evo in June. If I didn't have some technical know how, and the support of XDA, my Evo would be near obsolete already. However, I am not the "average" consumer, I love to hack things. Most people want a good phone that will last a year or two, and not have to feel buyer's remorse every few months when a better and faster device hits the shelves.
You could make the same argument about Apple devices with their yearly refresh, and most technology for that matter but I feel the impact of this phenomenon may be greatest with Android... It's almost as if the marketing gurus at all the big telco's want to cram as much of this stuff out into the public, before we realize what's going on, and don't want it anymore.
I love Android, and my Evo is a good phone (not great), but I clearly see behind their marketing fluff, and their poorly disguised ecosystem if you can call it that.
Don't even get me started on the failure that is the Android Market.... Ugh...
What a messy, clusterf¨©k. An unorganized, unregulated, bloated piece of $Free.99 garbage. Google seems to actually encourage "free w/ads" apps over developers making GOOD apps, and getting paid for them!
Not to mention the lack of security, repetition, and licensing infringement that runs rampant throughout. This may seem off topic, but it all ties in to the lack of standardization that plagues Google, and Android as a whole.
If I were Google's CEO, I would clamp down fast in a clear and concise manner with Motorola, HTC and LG etc, and call for better hardware standardization, less marketing fluff, and actually give Devs a reason to want to get involved with the Android market. One way of doing this would be to stop selling old hardware (read, crappy) repackaged in a new phone.
Granted, Android sales are huge right now, but if they stay on this rocky path, the Big G may soon find themselves in a sales plateau, if not on their way to a canyon. They set out to be different, which is good, but sometimes different ends up being strange.
to cater to everyones needs
Most people I know usually refer HTC brand as the Cadillac of phones.
And @Mitch...like apple dont have 1000's of pointless and useless apps and without a option to refund.
Touche' Phatman,
I wasn't trying to rant or complain, so sorry if I did. I've had a mixed experience with my phone, (and it shows.)
Touch>Touch Pro>Touch Pro 2
Sent From My HTC Evo 4G On The Now Network From Sprint Using Tapatalk Pro!
Guys, as the 29th is approaching -- what are you thoughts on this upcoming battle. With the speculated display, processor/ram specs Nexus 10 (if it's real) looks to be as good if not better then Note 10.1 (minus S pen) --- I am tempted to return my Note 10.1 and wait for Nexus 10. It's Google/Samsung collaboration so updates will be straight from Google without wait and hopefully TouchWiz, multi-view, pop up video player etc features from Sammy - seems like a "Killer Device"
Thoughts..
tankjay said:
Guys, as the 29th is approaching -- what are you thoughts on this upcoming battle. With the speculated display, processor/ram specs Nexus 10 (if it's real) looks to be as good if not better then Note 10.1 (minus S pen) --- I am tempted to return my Note 10.1 and wait for Nexus 10. It's Google/Samsung collaboration so updates will be straight from Google without wait and hopefully TouchWiz, multi-view, pop up video player etc features from Sammy - seems like a "Killer Device"
Thoughts..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was being discussed in the Note vs. TF700 thread. Here are my thoughts.
BarryH_GEG said:
Here's my prediction. It'll basically be a giant N7 with higher quality h/w components and better build quality. The SoC will either be the Exynos 5250, S4 Pro, or OMAP 5 assuming a launch next year. If it were launching this year there would already be supply chain leaks about the various third party components used in it or test device traces would have shown up in benchmarks. Exynos Quad can't support FHD so it won't be an existing Exynos chip (if it's Exynos). The 5250 just launched in the new Samsung Chromebook so that's a strong possibility. It'll most likely have NFC and 2GB of RAM also. Since Nexus devices are basically equipped with an app-less (other than Google Apps) bare OS here's the things it won't have.
- Multiview
- Pop up play
- S-Pen/S-Note
- AllShare Play and Cast
- Enhanced camera features (smile/face/blink detection, buddy shot)
- Mini apps
- Enhanced audio and video codec support
- IR port
- Dialer but HSPA data could be offered
- Browser h/w acceleration
The display I'm sure will be Samsung-sourced and gorgeous and whichever next-gen CPU/GPU it has it'll be fast as hell. A lot of folks don't like TouchWiz based on its appearance but it's more than just an overlay. There's lots of stuff Samsung integrates in to it along with a ton of non-standard performance enhancements and additional features. If I leave the Note it won't be for another bare-bones Android tablet with fewer features no matter what the speed and PPI are. It'll more likely be for a Note 10.1 II with a FHD display and 5250 SoC (if it ever comes to exist) or a W8 tablet. Most analysts that follow the mobile industry have declared high-end Android tablets dead at the hands of W8. It that comes to be then Google (rather than the manufacturers) will be the future sponsor of all high-end Android tablets. And Nexus devices may be great for their purity and frequency of updates but naked Android vs. the features and broader app compatibility in W8 are going to make $399+ Android tablets a pretty hard sell.
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Click to collapse
In addition, here's an article from today talking about Google's Nexus push.
More Nexus devices don’t necessarily mean more sales and more control over Android for Google.
It’s not clear how a larger Nexus tablet would succeed where other Android tablets have failed, unless you believe mainstream consumers pay close attention to pixel density or other minute tech specs. Google Play has a smaller movie and music selection than Amazon Instant Video (as Laptop Mag noted in a recent comparison) and doesn’t have as many proper tablet apps as Apple’s iPad. In lieu of sheer quantity, Google will need to show some amazing content of its own or knock it out the park on pricing with its tablets.
As for smartphones, the big question is whether Google will cater to wireless carriers, whose subsidies are what allow phones to sell for under $200 in the United States. (They’re also the reason you agree to a two-year contract when you buy a new phone.) Verizon and Sprint did subsidize the Galaxy Nexus, but the arrangement wasn’t ideal as customers still had to wait months for software upgrades. If Google goes it alone and sells unlocked phones without subsidies, it’ll still need a retail partner to provide hands-on time, along with some serious marketing to explain why an unlocked Nexus phone is worth getting.
All of which is to say that next week’s press event will be a lot of fun to watch. And even if you’re not obsessed with the tech industry’s twists and turns, at least there’ll be some cool hardware.
http://techland.time.com/2012/10/23/googles-big-nexus-event-whats-at-stake/
Nice write up, thanks for sharing..
Here's what I've gotta have:
- Multiview
- Pop up play
- S-Pen/S-Note (may be)
- AllShare Play and Cast
- Mini apps
- Enhanced audio and video codec support
- IR port (may be)
- Browser h/w acceleration
Main point for me is if the Nexus 10 doesn't move forward towards multitasking, it's almost a no-go for me..
For me, no pen = no sale.
Haven't used the spen a lot, I'm also a fan of vanilla Android so I guess I'll be getting the nexus 10 , gotta see it first tho
Sent from my GT-N8013 using xda app-developers app
Been using a pen since the Motion Computing M1400 (now LE1700 w/SXGA+). No reason to stop now. Love the Note 10.1. Give us Super AMOLED+! Keep on writing!
It is just like comparing nexus with note 2
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
Well its a nexus device so it will run stock android and so most likely won't have touchwiz and if it doesn't have touchwiz doubt it will have any of the great features that come with it from samsung. I personally think it will just be a big Nexus 7 with a GREAT screen, so still a good device but I think it won't have any of the productivity pros as the Note 10.1.
I see it like most others here: no spending, not interesting.
And there is no way the nexus will have an spen.
The spen in combination with the Multiscreen functionality are amazing. It regularly makes me think about how much fun university would have been had I had it in those days.
Well I've owned my Note for exactly 24 hours now. I was the one that brought up the subject in the other thread. I figured I'd buy the Note now and if the Google announcement blew me away I could just return it. Still not 100% sure what I'll do.
But I think those that say it will be pure vanilla Android are correct. So unless Google slipped multitasking into 4.2 without anyone getting a sniff of it, I doubt you'll see anything special.
The big draw sounds like it's going to be the display. That's compelling, no doubt. But i'm not sure it makes much difference to us old guys with poor eyesight.
The big draw of the Note for me was the 2Gb of RAM. It's possible the Nexus 10 will come that way, but doubtful. But if it does and they bring in a 32GB model for under $400 I still might switch*. But I didn't think that would be the case so I picked up the Note now.
*Release date is also important to me for other reasons that probably aren't a consideration for others.
I am on a dicey situation - my 30 day's end on 28th and this conference is on 29th - should I return it and see what comes out of the conference and if it's not compiling re-buy the Note or just keep the Note and let it release and see how it actually feels before parting way with Note
Tough call.. will be doing some research in the next few days
tankjay said:
I am on a dicey situation - my 30 day's end on 28th and this conference is on 29th - should I return it and see what comes out of the conference and if it's not compiling re-buy the Note or just keep the Note and let it release and see how it actually feels before parting way with Note
Tough call.. will be doing some research in the next few days
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There were a ton of leaks before the SGS3 and Note II were released on the Samsung side with pics and OS screen shots. On the Google side there were leaks for the N7 and Nexus 4 also with pics and OS screen shots. The fact that there's only been one editorial leak for the "Manta/N10" that's been repeated everywhere leaves me to believe it might be announced on the 29th but the release isn't around the corner. No harm in returning your Note and re-buying it after the announcement just in case.
toenail_flicker said:
For me, no pen = no sale.
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Click to collapse
+1 for me. Without the pen, I would've considered an iPad and a pressure sensitive bluetooth stylus. But, most likely would not buy a tablet at all.
This mentality of returning stuff for no real reason other than one feels like it, is the epitome of wastefulness for me. I find it so odd. I could never do that.
It makes me more aware of the fact I need to keep my eyes open more for refurbished products whenever I pass through the US.
Oh well...
makanimike said:
This mentality of returning stuff for no real reason other than one feels like it, is the epitome of wastefulness for me. I find it so odd. I could never do that.
It makes me more aware of the fact I need to keep my eyes open more for refurbished products whenever I pass through the US.
Oh well...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Budget? For me at least, that is a VERY compelling reason right now, and reasons dont always mean as much to one person as it does to others, vice versa, but yeah, there should be some sort of time frame, a reasonable one.............in cases like a defective unit, with promised support and fixes that may or may not come, that has you waiting months, i dont think a measly 32 days is aceptable standard,* the lower the number the less likely of a return, theres only one party there that stands most to benefit................ but i digress
makanimike said:
This mentality of returning stuff for no real reason other than one feels like it, is the epitome of wastefulness for me. I find it so odd. I could never do that.
It makes me more aware of the fact I need to keep my eyes open more for refurbished products whenever I pass through the US.
Oh well...
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In the case of Best Buy, the retailer provides this very option as enticement and reward for bringing your business to them. You can be certain that the cost of processing such returns in fully included in their overall business model. Knowing that the store allows you to "try out" a piece of expensive gear before "committing" to it most likely has been determined to increase sales. In short, Best Buy wouldn't have created this program in the first place, and then expanded it in subsequent years (e.g, "Silver Premier") if it didn't make business sense. They're not doing it to be "nice guys". They're doing it to secure larger market share and benefit their bottom line.
With that very policy in mind, I find myself more willing to plunk down my money sooner in the shopping cycle, knowing that there is far less risk of being disappointed and "stuck" with something I don't like. I've gone from being indifferent to Best Buy, to viewing them as a preferred retailer, especially as they are quite willing to engage in price matching as well. The "mentality" (as your describe it) is that my anxiety about purchases of not-yet-proven technology is relieved, and Best Buy gets my business sooner and more frequently.
So...both parties to this retail arrangement (consumer and retailer), benefit, and both agree to conduct business on this basis.
Why, then, should the consumer feel guilty about exercising his/her option to return a piece of merchandise that disappoints - for whatever reason, even if it were something as trivial as the color clashing with the curtains in my office? It's not a matter of taking advantage of the arrangement - merely exercising one of the options that the retailer offers as terms of the sale. In the end, I will be a far more loyal Best Buy customer because they value my satisfaction. They benefit - and I do too.
BTW: Out of all the years I've purchased products from Best Buy, I've spent many thousands of dollars there (business and personal), and only returned two products.
Also: when a returned product is resold - it is done as an "open box" item, with a commensurate discount. You don't have to suspect that every item you buy in the US may have been touched by another consumer before you get it. Those who knowingly buy "open box" items often delight in the great bargain that they've found....and once again, this is built into Best Buy's business model. In short - all parties benefit.
Here's Best Buy's own description of the "Silver Premier" benefit that relates to this:
MORE Time. We want you to ensure you love every purchase. So contact the Helpline for help with setup. Or, get a recommendation on an exchange that better fits your needs. Best of all, you have plenty of time to decide with a 60-day return, exchange and price-match policy on Best Buy and BestBuy.com purchases.
As far as I'm concerned, this is a win-win situation for all parties.
BarryH_GEG said:
There were a ton of leaks before the SGS3 and Note II were released on the Samsung side with pics and OS screen shots. On the Google side there were leaks for the N7 and Nexus 4 also with pics and OS screen shots. The fact that there's only been one editorial leak for the "Manta/N10" that's been repeated everywhere leaves me to believe it might be announced on the 29th but the release isn't around the corner. No harm in returning your Note and re-buying it after the announcement just in case.
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Yes, I know - that is why I will be researching as much as I can (hard for me to part ways with my Note for even a day without a HUGE reason )
I fully agree with this jonstrong's post- I once asked Costco that why don't you guys sell iPad and they said "wel,l because Apple doesn't like our return policies" - so if the company has issues with it they might as well keep it from Stores with basic (or more then basic in Costco's case) "return policies"
tankjay said:
I fully agree with this jonstrong's post- I once asked Costco that why don't you guys sell iPad and they said "wel,l because Apple doesn't like our return policies" - so if the company has issues with it they might as well keep it from Stores with basic (or more then basic in Costco's case) "return policies"
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Yup - Costco is another great example of shopper protection -- and they have one of the most loyal customer groups in the entire industry as a result. Costco customers know that they are never at risk for "getting stuck" with a disappointing purchase.
I seriously thought about it. I'm still well within my 30-day return window. However, I realized that the one reason I dismissed the Nexus 7 isn't likely to change: the lack of expandable memory.
No, it's not the "flagship hardware" argument.
It's about the fact that the Google decided to stop competing with it's own supporters: Samsung, LG, Sony, Motorola, etc. I can bet the hardware makers were beginning to be quite pissed off because of the Nexus bargain prices, and complained loudly. Yes, the Nexus was a great way to show the hardware makers and developers a direction for the Android hardware and - more important - for the Android software, but enough is enough, Google doesn't really need the hardware business so putting more pressure on its own allies is the last thing it needed to do. So the Nexus will remain that direction, with the difference that it will not unnecessarily compete with its partners.
Samsung already posted declining sales. The last thing the hardware makers need now is more competition.
A similar story happened with Microsoft and it's hardware partners. The Surface and Surface Pro tablets are priced quite high in order to avoid competing but they are still able to show the hardware partners a direction in which it wants things to evolve.
So there you have it. This is the real reason Google decided to price the Nexus 6 so high.
kevinlevrone said:
No, it's not the "flagship hardware" argument.
It's about the fact that the Google decided to stop competing with it's own supporters: Samsung, LG, Sony, Motorola, etc. I can bet the hardware makers were beginning to be quite pissed off because of the Nexus bargain prices, and complained loudly. Yes, the Nexus was a great way to show the hardware makers and developers a direction for the Android hardware, but enough is enough, Google doesn't really need the hardware business so putting more pressure on its own allies is the last thing it needed to do.
Samsung already posted declining sales. The last thing the hardware makers need now is more competition.
A similar story happened with Microsoft and it's hardware partners. The Surface and Surface Pro tablets are priced quite high in order to avoid competing but they are still able to show the hardware partners a direction in which it wants things to evolve.
So there you have it. This is the real reason Google decided to price the Nexus 6 so high.
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Was disappointed by the price, but this makes sense, well ill have to go and get another phone, possibly, Nexus 5 or OPO
kevinlevrone said:
No, it's not the "flagship hardware" argument.
It's about the fact that the Google decided to stop competing with it's own supporters: Samsung, LG, Sony, Motorola, etc. I can bet the hardware makers were beginning to be quite pissed off because of the Nexus bargain prices, and complained loudly. Yes, the Nexus was a great way to show the hardware makers and developers a direction for the Android hardware, but enough is enough, Google doesn't really need the hardware business so putting more pressure on its own allies is the last thing it needed to do.
Samsung already posted declining sales. The last thing the hardware makers need now is more competition.
A similar story happened with Microsoft and it's hardware partners. The Surface and Surface Pro tablets are priced quite high in order to avoid competing but they are still able to show the hardware partners a direction in which it wants things to evolve.
So there you have it. This is the real reason Google decided to price the Nexus 6 so high.
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Don't buy that argument. Why would google even go through the trouble of making a Nexus device then? Nexus phones certainly weren't cutting into the sales of the Galaxy line. It's a niche market. If google wanted to play nice with hardware manufacturers they would just continue to release Google Play Edition versions of existing devices rather than create their own device.
They probably thought well Apple can sell plenty of iPhones at a hefty markup then we will have a slice of that action.
qwerty12601 said:
Don't buy that argument. Why would google even go through the trouble of making a Nexus device then?
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To give the hardware makers and to "the world" a direction, a benchmark on how an Android device should look and function, a direction in which the Android ecosystem is evolving.
kevinlevrone said:
To give the hardware makers and to "the world" a direction, a benchmark on how an Android device should look and function, a direction in which the Android ecosystem is evolving.
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But on the same token, this device is an enlarged Moto X. Where is google's influence on this device other than a larger foot print?
anees167 said:
Was disappointed by the price, but this makes sense, well ill have to go and get another phone, possibly, Nexus 5 or OPO
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I agree. So today, I chose the N5 over the OPO because of wireless charging and I want android L asap
qwerty12601 said:
But on the same token, this device is an enlarged Moto X. Where is google's influence on this device other than a larger foot print?
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The most important is in the software and how updates are delivered.
The fact that the Nexus 6 is similar to the Moto X (the designs converge) means that Google almost reached its goal of showing the hardware makers how it wants and Android device to look and function.
Remember how the Nexus One seemed like a huge step up compared to all the other Android devices ? Then how a new Nexus (don't remember which - maybe Nexus 4) introduced the software keys instead of the hardware/capacitive permanent keys ? Google steered the hardware into the direction it wanted, over time. Now we are at a point in which the hardware makers know how to properly build Android devices.
qwerty12601 said:
Don't buy that argument. Why would google even go through the trouble of making a Nexus device then? Nexus phones certainly weren't cutting into the sales of the Galaxy line. It's a niche market. If google wanted to play nice with hardware manufacturers they would just continue to release Google Play Edition versions of existing devices rather than create their own device.
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I don't buy this argument either. If anything, Google, according to most reports, is actively trying to wrestle even more control as it seeks to increase competition from other vendors, such as Samsung, which has all but lobotomized Android. With this device, even the price point suggests that a Google device can step out of the niche market and go toe to toe with the heavyweights. Google wants to show it can marry the best hardware with the best form of its newly revamped OS. And, this price point only exudes Google's confidence in this direction.
kevinlevrone said:
The most important is in the software and how updates are delivered.
The fact that the Nexus 6 is similar to the Moto X (the designs converge) means that Google almost reached its goal of showing the hardware makers how it wants and Android device to look and function.
Remember how the Nexus One seemed like a huge step up compared to all the other Android devices ? Then how a new Nexus (don't remember which - maybe Nexus 4) introduced the software keys instead of the hardware/capacitive permanent keys ? Google steered the hardware into the direction it wanted, over time. Now we are at a point in which the hardware makers know how to properly build Android devices.
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I don't doubt that hardware makers have grown to shape their devices to google's goal. But at this point, why would google want to showcase a device that theoretically has been designed in 2013 (original moto x). They're is no device innovation this time. There really hasn't been for years, and that's been accompanied by affordable devices.
qwerty12601 said:
I don't doubt that hardware makers have grown to shape their devices to google's goal. But at this point, why would google want to showcase a device that theoretically has been designed in 2013 (original moto x). They're is no device innovation this time. There really hasn't been for years, and that's been accompanied by affordable devices.
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Did you see any innovation in the new iPhones, other than the larger screens, faster processors and better OS ? Same with Nexus - larger screen, faster processor and better OS. The perceived lack of real hardware innovation it's not Google's fault, it's just that this is the state of technology today.
kevinlevrone said:
Did you see any innovation in the new iPhones, other than the larger screens, faster processors and better OS ? Same with Nexus - larger screen, faster processor and better OS. The perceived lack of real hardware innovation it's not Google's fault, it's just that this is the state of technology today.
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The iphone hasn't innovated anything in years. Their sell is an easy device to use with a super loyal following, and extremely consistent pricing. The price of a new Iphone hasn't changed in many years.
If that's the direction the nexus line wants to go, then good luck! But Nexus doesn't have that large loyal following, and with prices going up and down it's going to make people look at other options.
qwerty12601 said:
If that's the direction the nexus line wants to go, then good luck! But Nexus doesn't have that large loyal following, and with prices going up and down it's going to make people look at other options.
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I think that Google doesn't want (anymore) that many people to buy its Nexus devices - especially phablets which are Samsung's most profitable devices and would really hurt it if Nexus was sold at bargain prices - what Google wants is that those Nexus devices to exist as a reference.
It may be that Samsung had a lot of saying in how Google positioned the Nexus 6. Google needs Samsung, badly. And Samsung released many of its wearables with the Tizen operating system instead of Android Wear. It may be that Google did Samsung a favor in order to ensure that it doesn't lose the wearables war in the future and get Samsung in the Android Wear boat.
Its expensive now not because they were not competing. the nexus line didn't make a dent in anybody's pocket except google's
Fact remains is nexus 5 sales numbers were never released, most likely because they were so poor compared to flagship devices.
Google wanted a way to compete with samsung/apple and now they have found it: contract with more carriers, set it at a price point where other people not familiar with the nexus line would consider it a flagship device, etc.
i can understand, from a business standpoint the nexus 5 didn't make sense and it was time to compete with the big players.
Though i'm sad and will not be buying one. The point of a nexus for me was both the price and no contract needed.. now they got rid of that and at this point i'd rather get something tried and tested like a galaxy note especially if im going to be forced into a contract to get an affordable price for it.
kevinlevrone said:
I think that Google doesn't want (anymore) that many people to buy its Nexus devices - especially phablets which are Samsung's most profitable devices and would really hurt it if Nexus was sold at bargain prices - what Google wants is that those Nexus devices to exist as a reference.
It may be that Samsung had a lot of saying in how Google positioned the Nexus 6. Google needs Samsung, badly. And Samsung released many of its wearables with the Tizen operating system instead of Android Wear. It may be that Google did Samsung a favor in order to ensure that it doesn't lose the wearables war in the future and get Samsung in the Android Wear boat.
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Which is why I feel if that's the direction they really wanted to go, just doing GPE on existing devices where manufacturers are aware and optimize their devices with googles input would make more sense. That way the manufacturer gets to sell the device at full cost, featuring stock android.
floepie said:
I don't buy this argument either. If anything, Google, according to most reports, is actively trying to wrestle even more control as it seeks to increase competition from other vendors, such as Samsung, which has all but lobotomized Android. With this device, even the price point suggests that a Google device can step out of the niche market and go toe to toe with the heavyweights. Google wants to show it can marry the best hardware with the best form of its newly revamped OS. And, this price point only exudes Google's confidence in this direction.
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I believe you nailed it. Its as good as anything top notch out there, and cheaper. Had it been a $450 phone, people would have complained it could have been more.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app
So to prevent competition they sell it for a price not many are willing to pay. And to top it off, make it gigantic for even more clout.
theoneofgod said:
So to prevent competition they sell it for a price not many are willing to pay. And to top it off, make it gigantic for even more clout.
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No, to *help* competition among its partners. Google is not in the hardware business, they don't care if it sells or not. It only cares for the Nexus line to exist and show the world how Android should be.
An alternative take.
Motorola are hurting for cash. Google bought them, did nothing with them and then sold them to Lenovo, but not before taking all the good IP with them. Lenovo added a stipulation that they make the next Nexus device and get to price it, making more profit. Motorola are the only ones to name the price so far, not Google.
That's my take, it's pure stipulation, but that's my opinion.
Kryten2k35 said:
An alternative take.
Motorola are hurting for cash. Google bought them, did nothing with them and then sold them to Lenovo, but not before taking all the good IP with them. Lenovo added a stipulation that they make the next Nexus device and get to price it, making more profit. Motorola are the only ones to name the price so far, not Google.
That's my take, it's pure stipulation, but that's my opinion.
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Interesting and I find it possible. Motorola doesn't have a non-Nexus phablet yet, so the Nexus could be their own entry into the phablet market. The fact that it will be sold through carriers with subsidy, etc. just like a regular phone also adds to this possibility.
However, would Google abandon their Nexus strategy with this one-time deal/screw-up ? Not sure. And I'm also not sure that the Nexus line sold so well as to be a desired deal by Motorola. The Nexus line was positioned in a certain way, you can't easily switch this positioning and expect huge success (Google doesn't care about sales but Motorola does).
However I believe Google (or Motorola, or both) will learn its lesson from this. People expect lower prices from Nexus devices. If they launched a similar phablet but non-Nexus branded, no one would have complained about the price. But calling it a Nexus will surely make many people hate Google for it.