Related
What on earth is going on? I know where talking about 2 different Moblie operating Systems and devices, but he performance difference explains alot in terms of why the TyTN/Hermes....is underperforming in the Video department, especially with TCPMP.
If this is the case with Video, which can easily be measured for performance, how much more are these Hermes devices lacking in other departments.
Apparently the developers of TCPMP at corecodec are aware of this problem, but it seems to be more related to the Hermes itself.
Below are a few screenshots of 2 different Pocket PCs using the same Samsung 400 Mhz CPU but with completely different results.
Also, I would not necessariliy pay the figures too much mind if the Video performance was at least as good as on the Vario I or the HTC Prophet, but it is not IMHO.
Tell me what you guys think. Maybe I've got it all wrong.
I did have it at all wrong. please read up about the ATI thingy in other post.
I'm dissapointed with the speed too. I'm wondering if it's got anything to do with the 32-bit bus used?
bydandie said:
I'm dissapointed with the speed too. I'm wondering if it's got anything to do with the 32-bit bus used?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi bydandie.
You may have a point, but then I'm not having any other speed issues. What were the bus speeds on the Universal and Wizard? Do you know? Also;
Samsung (R)2442A [Hermes]
Samsung S3C2440 [HP iPAQ rx3715]
Both run @ 400Mhz
but as we can they don't appear to be identical processors. I'll google around for some info as I'm no expert, but it may still be ROM specific.
What Hermes variant have you got again? and what ROM version?
I was hoping the upgraded 200 extra mhz over the Vario, would be good, apprently it doesn't sound like the video playback is that much better. What is the video playback like ?
This is down to the Hermes not being able to utilise the ATI acceleration technology (can't remember the actual name) properly.
If you try playing a video in TCPMP with the acceleration on, on the Hermes, you will find that the screen shutters like mad!
So you can only use raw video mode for now, which is pretty slow. (But plenty quick enough for 320x240 videos, i.e. most "pocket pr0n")
mackaby007 said:
bydandie said:
I'm dissapointed with the speed too. I'm wondering if it's got anything to do with the 32-bit bus used?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi bydandie.
You may have a point, but then I'm not having any other speed issues. What were the bus speeds on the Universal and Wizard? Do you know? Also;
Samsung (R)2442A [Hermes]
Samsung S3C2440 [HP iPAQ rx3715]
Both run @ 400Mhz
but as we can they don't appear to be identical processors. I'll google around for some info as I'm no expert, but it may still be ROM specific.
What Hermes variant have you got again? and what ROM version?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Wizard was 16-bit. I'm using the v1605 but with the HTC ROM.
mackaby007 said:
Hi bydandie.
You may have a point, but then I'm not having any other speed issues. What were the bus speeds on the Universal and Wizard? Do you know? Also;
Samsung (R)2442A [Hermes]
Samsung S3C2440 [HP iPAQ rx3715]
Both run @ 400Mhz
but as we can they don't appear to be identical processors. I'll google around for some info as I'm no expert, but it may still be ROM specific.
What Hermes variant have you got again? and what ROM version?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both run at the same CPU speed, but have very different operating systems. According to the screen shot in the first post, the rx3700 tested is running pocket pc 4.21 (2003 second edition IIRC), whereas the Hermes is running Windows Mobile 5. I would guess the rx3700 doesn't have the slowdown related to persistant storage (for example), using some form of flash for memory is going to be slower than RAM.
I have a Eten M600 on WM5 and the samsung 400 proc. the TyTN use also the 400 proc.
When i compare them both on speed then my Eten is much faster in every way. much more responsive. opening and rendering screens.
Altough i prefer my TyTN over the M600, the build-hardware and sound is much better.
I guess it must be the ROM that isn't perfect yet ( and it isn't perfect yet for sure).
I have a Eten M600 on WM5 and the samsung 400 proc. the TyTN use also the 400 proc.
When i compare them both on speed then my Eten is much faster in every way. much more responsive. opening and rendering screens.
Altough i prefer my TyTN over the M600, the build-hardware and sound is much better.
I guess it must be the ROM that isn't perfect yet ( and it isn't perfect yet for sure).
ROM or CPU lacking?
luminus said:
I have a Eten M600 on WM5 and the samsung 400 proc. the TyTN use also the 400 proc.
When i compare them both on speed then my Eten is much faster in every way. much more responsive. opening and rendering screens.
Altough i prefer my TyTN over the M600, the build-hardware and sound is much better.
I guess it must be the ROM that isn't perfect yet ( and it isn't perfect yet for sure).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your input guys. Luminus your point sounds like there may be hope for us all yet, but having said that, bydandie has switched to the TyTN ROM and I have moved to the I-mate ROM and admittedly we have both both probably experienced some improvements over the ROMs our devices shipped with but the Video playback issue remains, albeit slightly improved too (therefore indicative of being software related).
I spent several hours reading up on the SC32442A Samsung processor and I have to admit, whilst not having enough knowledge to fully understand all the technicalities, it seems that the CPU in the Hermes is one serious 'dude' which is not being used to its Full potential. Apparently its just as quick as a Xscale 520MHz CPU!
I can believe it due to the responsiveness of my device in general (with I-mate ROM), but its just not evident in the Videoplayback department.
I've also tried many differently encoded movie clips like its native MP4 and Divx etc but only negligable differences. I now believe, as posted by bydandie (I think), that its due to the ATI acceleration chip/software not doing what it is supposed and that maybe HTC should look into this as the different ROMs don't seem to make any worthwhile difference in this particular department.
For anyone who's reading this for the first time let me clarify that playback speed is acceptable to watch any well encoded movie (320x240 @ up to 768 kbps) but pausing, forwarding etc then resuming playback is where the problems occurr (for me anyhow). Benchmarking shows that the Wizard (overclocked @240MHz) easily outperforms the Hermes, but not in everything else. Though admittedly I also find the overclocked HTC Prophet @240MHz more responsive all round! Again this seems to indicate that acceleration support is missing across the border.
For the record: I no longer believe TCPMP is in any way at fault. It performs outstandingly on every other device I have ever installed it on, including Samsungs i300 which also had a 400MHz CPU and benchmarked the same videos at well over 300% compared to 120% - 180% were getting on the Hermes!
I give up for now, the problem is way beyond me but hopefully not far off from being found.
Samsung CPU
I'd be interested where you read about this CPU.
It's based on ARMv4 dating back to 2002 and as such is functionally very poor in comparison to the ARMv5 Xscale platforms. This is why it won't allow the current versions of iPlay to operate. It's also unlikely to have the xscale power and performance scaling capabilities as it pre-dated Xscale.
In practise the only thing that has affected me is iplay.
I have just upgraded my 2750 to WM5.
Contrary to what I was told when I purchased the upgrade (many months ago) it is much much faster than the tytn in every respect. It also seems more stable.
For day to day work though - I don't use the TyTN for video - ipod and Archos cover that for me - I find performance very adequate though.
Paul.
Re: Samsung CPU
pgamble said:
I'd be interested where you read about this CPU.
It's based on ARMv4 dating back to 2002 and as such is functionally very poor in comparison to the ARMv5 Xscale platforms. This is why it won't allow the current versions of iPlay to operate. It's also unlikely to have the xscale power and performance scaling capabilities as it pre-dated Xscale.
In practise the only thing that has affected me is iplay.
I have just upgraded my 2750 to WM5.
Contrary to what I was told when I purchased the upgrade (many months ago) it is much much faster than the tytn in every respect. It also seems more stable.
For day to day work though - I don't use the TyTN for video - ipod and Archos cover that for me - I find performance very adequate though.
Paul.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi again pgamble. I remember you answered an earlier post of mine regarding the CPU. It seems you understand more on these CPUs than I do.
I've provided the linl below to where I read all about the 2442 CPUs (they seem to have variants of it). Hope you understand it better than me. Please let us know what you make of it. Bydandie mentioned that the Hermes uses a 32bit Bus as opposed to the 16 bit Bus used on the first Vario. Do you know if this would negatively or positively affect the speed of data? I would have thought positive, but then I don't fully understand all the technical jargon in the provided link which will probably explain how the technology is utilised.
I hope it doesn't have to share too much of the available data bus/ bandwidth (whatever it is), thus bottlenecking the CPU. I still think at this time its related to the acceleration technology of the ATI Imageon.
http://www.samsung.com/products/sem...ationProcessor/ARM9Series/SC32442/SC32442.htm
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=61370 :wink:
Hermes is a mini-powerhouse!!
Sorry I should have elaborated in that last post which directs you to more accurate information since I started this thread. The Hermes is in fact a mini-powerhouse and even beats the Universal for playback performance under the right conditions.
It's great that the Hermes is powerfull and beats the Universal under the "right conditions"!
But under the "right conditions" DOS beats Windows, it's just a matter on how you compare... :wink:
However, TCPMP still doesn't work as it should on the Hermes. *Standing by for new ROM*
Moskus said:
It's great that the Hermes is powerfull and beats the Universal under the "right conditions"!
But under the "right conditions" DOS beats Windows, it's just a matter on how you compare... :wink:
However, TCPMP still doesn't work as it should on the Hermes. *Standing by for new ROM*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ROM ive settled on (imate) will play back no problems with rawframebuffer set for the video output. Admittedly id prefer to use the ATI acceleration but this temporary measure is still ok for me. Sound playback has improved as it does not stutter to a halt after a pause or skip. (for the record im using a 2pass Xvid encoded avi file with 128kbps MP3 audio) this is evident in both the imate and dopod roms......but not the updated HTC rom.
ATI & The Core Player v1.0
I agree with you both (last 2 posts), but from further investigations, it seems that the problem is not related to the ROM either but onlt to the ATI decoder. I've e-mailed ATI in the hope that they can enlighten or help us all. :lol: Fat chance of that I know, but in the ATI Hanheld Interface, there is a version number v2.30.......maybe that can somehow be updated directly if ATI will offer some support or through a ROM update (though it does seem like firmware) .
Anyway all said and done I'm going to keep looking until I find a way to get that bloody decoder to work permanently as it seriously improves all video formats by at least 100% in benchmarking, which means no dropped frames for High Quality encoded files.
Alternatively keep an eye out for the new TCPMP player (The Core Player v1.0) which will hopefully address all these issues within the coming weeks/months. :wink:
Yer i can imagine a ROM update may include an ATI-written updater within it which will sort out the problems. It DOES sound like something that can be fixed though so hopefully soon we will all have it working correctly. :lol:
So, AKU3.3 ROM did fix the problem with ATI, where you had screen going crazy, but there are decoding artefacts which I belive are down to TCPMP/Coreplayer to fix.
schriss said:
So, AKU3.3 ROM did fix the problem with ATI, where you had screen going crazy, but there are decoding artefacts which I belive are down to TCPMP/Coreplayer to fix.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yer, if you look on the coreplayer forum there is a recommended encoding rate etc... but ive still watched videos no problem even using a different encoding rate.
FYI: Trinity mainboard
great job!! thanks
Superb !!
This ends many speculations and unclarities raised in the past
Great work!
Guys, what's that ATi chip in there? Does the Trinity have some sort of video acceleration?
That would be so awesome.
ATI The Imageon™ 2282
http://ati.amd.com/products/imageon2282/index.html
Guybrush said:
ATI The Imageon™ 2282
http://ati.amd.com/products/imageon2282/index.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the link.
Probably a real rookie question but did any of the HTC phones before Trinity/Artemis (like Wizard) have a similar ATi-made processor or is this the first?
Videos were choppy at anything above 15fps for me on the Wizard.
forcedalias said:
Videos were choppy at anything above 15fps for me on the Wizard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Wizard has a 200MHz OMAP processor. The Trinity has a 400MHz Samsung CPU.
forcedalias said:
Thanks for the link.
Probably a real rookie question but did any of the HTC phones before Trinity/Artemis (like Wizard) have a similar ATi-made processor or is this the first?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Wizard was very slooooow in almost everything, however it became a little beter after several ROM updates. As far as I remember the Magician had also an ATI accelerator chip. Same for the HP HX4700 PDA, which was also made by HTC. So the concept is far from new.
Radio
I've seen a post indicating that the P3600 has the same FM Radio chip as the P3300, not being an expert do these image back this up ?
http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showpost.php?p=498824&postcount=63
http://www.solopalmari.com/images/stories/htc/artemis_trinity/p3600_gpsornot/msm6275b.gif
Why the hell doesn't HTC detail the capabilities with a big caveat about achievables ! People will purchase with a premise of what's going to come with a new ROM.
i didn't see FM radio chip on Trinity from motherboard pictures
sorry Guys no FM chip inside p3600, i had confirm from HTC
Can anyone confirm that the bluetooth chip is the Texas Instruments BRF6150?
I hope it is the same chip as the HTC Hermes.
Then there might come the possibility for Widcomm/Broadcomm bluetooth stack.
See:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=285419
XenoV said:
The Wizard was very slooooow in almost everything, however it became a little beter after several ROM updates. As far as I remember the Magician had also an ATI accelerator chip. Same for the HP HX4700 PDA, which was also made by HTC. So the concept is far from new.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Magician did NOT have a graphics chip, ATI or otherwise. Like you said, the concept is far from new, but has not been used very often (at least in phone edition PDAs).
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=MagicianHardwareOverview
HELP with HTC P3600 - no Switch
It`s change with a new psot
Hey there,
Was doing alot of research online about the graphic chipset from ATI on Athena but not even ATi has any infomation on their Webby.
Anyone know the specs of this w2284 chipset? Would really like to have more information on the chipset.....
Cheers
i agree with you, i tried to find info on the chipset to but i couldn't so i was like fu*k it and bought it anyways
Interesting thing, I was looking for Intel® PXA270 and found out all things are over to Marvell. Pretty confusing but ATI is just part of that chip, not a special chip
I saw some posts at the Coreplayer (comercial version of TCPMP) forum that ATI has refused to make the specs of that chip available to the Coreplayer developers, effectively crippling the chip for being used my alternative media players.
that very intersting, will i think we all need to find a player that ati likes
ATI W2284 not only for processing video and graphics, but also for handling the camera. Particularly, calculating autofocus algorithms and settings of automatic white balance are done with the help of this graphic subsystem
hmm... i think tt is known.... But if i m not wrong my old blueangel also uses ATI chipset...
problem is like example nVidia's Goforce 5500 is known to have a clock speed of 150 to 200 mhz....
how much is ATI's W2284??? Secondly does it have hardware encoding N decoding of H.264 videos??
Blah blah blah... Lots of qns left unanswered.
Anyone knows??
Cheers....
bLiTz^ said:
hmm... i think tt is known.... But if i m not wrong my old blueangel also uses ATI chipset...
problem is like example nVidia's Goforce 5500 is known to have a clock speed of 150 to 200 mhz....
how much is ATI's W2284??? Secondly does it have hardware encoding N decoding of H.264 videos??
Blah blah blah... Lots of qns left unanswered.
Anyone knows??
Cheers....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read here:
http://ati.amd.com/products/handheld/imageonfaq.html
http://ati.amd.com/products/imageon2282/index.html
and here:
http://ati.amd.com/products/handheld/products.html
Not very definitive I know, but never really found much else about them since last year and I believe ATI is remaining tight lipped for a reason...also not releasing info to Corecodec so they can support the chipset properly.
Notice also in the 3rd link, 2282 is listed,......but where is the mention of 2284?
I give up with ATI/AMD/Imageon....Imagine if we could get the best out of it via hardware decoding...how sweet that would be.
Just have to settle for using the Imageon driver for now, as it still yields visually better results thatn Rawframe buffer mode or direct draw and outperforms both in benchmarks fo speed.
Sorry can't help any more than that. Good luck on finding anything else useful.
no probs mackaby007......
Hmm i wonder...... mayb W2284 is actually a Modified Imageon W2282...
W2282 supports 3MP Cam.....
bLiTz^ said:
no probs mackaby007......
Hmm i wonder...... mayb W2284 is actually a Modified Imageon W2282...
W2282 supports 3MP Cam.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I thought too.
Ive noticed a real delay between image and sound when playing some games.
Games in question are FIFA 2002 from EA Sports and also Smart Tennis from SIMBSOFT.
Did anybody noticed something similar??
Any news? I'm waiting for optimized Ati W2284 driver for HTC Athena... May be it will be supported in CorePlayer...
Any news? I'm waiting for optimized Ati W2284 driver for HTC Athena... May be it will be supported in CorePlayer...
up )
bLiTz^ said:
Hey there,
Was doing alot of research online about the graphic chipset from ATI on Athena but not even ATi has any infomation on their Webby.
Anyone know the specs of this w2284 chipset? Would really like to have more information on the chipset.....
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, thinks for your work.I'm sorry I don't konw how to help you.But i think it maybe like qualcomm 7200's graphics chip.because the first ppc phone base on qualcomm 7200 is kaiser/TyTN II has the same problem as our 7500 at first.but someone solved it by modfy the 7201a driver for diamond for it.and the 7200 is the first product after ati sold the handheld products to qualcomm.so i think they maybe a little like.
i'm sorry for my poor english!
I was browsing the web and I came across a phone that looks like it's the ideal successor of our old Universal. It's called the M.A.G.I.C and has some really cool specs :
WM6.1
3.5 VGA + 2.8 VGA screens
8GB SSD Storage
MARVELL PXA 270 624 MHZ
MARVELL Graphics Accelerator
TV output
128mb Ram/Rom
Integrated GPS Receiver/FM Tuner
Biometric Sensor for data protection
Check it at their website : http://www.advancetc.com/
Youtube video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpAy9_3LcJA
Despite its big size(which I don't mind), it seems it is the perfect form factor for a new advance 'Universal' that most of us has been waiting for. What do you think about it?
According to what I've read on other sites, it seems that it's already on sale in asian/middle-east countries - can anyone confirm this?
Please move thread
Thanks for your contribution
There is a thread already with same subject
Mods please move thread to existent one
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443421&highlight=universal+succesor
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=4682888
Thanks,
HD2 SUCKS:
The processor support OpenGLES v.1.1 and 2.0, but HTC decided that they was enough generous to put a super cpu into their pda, they were lazy to develop the GLES 1.1 and 2.0 support for it!
You can try to run the old GLES games and GL Benchmark, it will run on HTC HD2, that means it has only GLES 1.0 support!
You aren't surprised, are you? HTC always ship powerful hardware without any of the drivers necessary to actually use it. If you want to actually use the hardware you've paid for, don't buy from HTC.
Wtf does that mean?
Do you think XDA developpers will solve this problem !?
Zepiii said:
Wtf does that mean?
Do you think XDA developpers will solve this problem !?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely.
Instead of posting the same thing in multiple forums, can you post a link to this DEMO so that other people can try it too, as I've searched and cant find it.
Cheers
More info or any new about this?
That's scaring me about buying my HD2
looks like a troll tbh all his other posts are about how much better his samsung ominia is compared to X phone.
It does support gles 2.0, but sadly, again there is no compatibility with other devices. Maybe htc will release a well documented sdk about gles 2.0 in the future, or you can buy it directly from them.
DMAND said:
Instead of posting the same thing in multiple forums, can you post a link to this DEMO so that other people can try it too, as I've searched and cant find it.
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do hope others will produce a cool demo for hd2 too, cause it does not work in the general way.
There exists a specific qualcomm gles 2.0 demo game, that only runs on hd2.
http://www.southend.se/games/electopia/index.php
Its very sad. My gles 2 apps arent run on hd2, but run on iphone 3gs, i8000 and acer f1.
...er?
People have already performed GLBench 1.1 benchmarks, which runs on OpenGL ES 1.1. We already know the HD2 supports hardware-accelerated OpenGL ES 1.0 and 1.1.
The only thing that's unknown is OpenGL ES 2.0. I'm not sure if this is what you were trying to say or not, it's very hard to understand your broken English (I understand English may not be your first language, but I think you might need to be a bit more clear in the future)
I don't know if there are any OpenGL ES 2.0 benchmarks out there. If somebody finds one, and has an HD2 handy, maybe they can try it out for us?
HD2 isn't a game console, don't forget it. And to be honest, best games are generally the simpliest one like PocketUNO for example. It's sometimes great to have game like Xtrak/NFS, but when i really want to virtually driv, i prefer to play NFS on my computer
Btw, can someone confirm the game isn't running on a HD2 ?
Then, anyone having enough knowledge in HTC know if we can adapt it? XDA is the paradise of what HTC forget !
Also, i check the Toshiba TG01 looks nice, but he miss thing that the HD2 has... HD2 stays the perfect mobile for me compared to the others !
See ya.
Taril, as an I8000 owner, I'd love to know which apps you are talking about that will run on the Omnia II, but not on the HD2!?
The I8000 has plenty of it's own GLES problems (as a quick look at the stickies on i8000.modaco.com will show anyone). Chainfire et al are doing a great job of writing the drivers that Samsung couldn't be bothered with, so I'd be very surprised if there is LESS support out of the box for the HD2 than the I8000...
I currently have an HD2 on order to replace my I8000, but if you seriously think you can convince me, I'd be more than happy to save £500...
If the device can run Electopia it can run openGL ES 2.0
http://www.southend.se/games/electopia/download.php
Can someone try?
working great on hd2...
yes, it is running nice and smooth
Then it support GLES 2
clubtech said:
Then it support GLES 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Says who?
Maybe the game uses 1.0 in case of HD.
I didn't check out the site very but I didn't see anything about OpenGL ES 2.0 being REQUIRED to run the game (which obviously would hurt it's selling potential...).
Speaking of Benchmarks... Anyone know which test is used here and where to find it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2htj8r1gWgc&NR=1
The HD2 is doing well... ;-)
clubbtraxx said:
Says who?
Maybe the game uses 1.0 in case of HD.
I didn't check out the site very but I didn't see anything about OpenGL ES 2.0 being REQUIRED to run the game (which obviously would hurt it's selling potential...).
Speaking of Benchmarks... Anyone know which test is used here and where to find it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2htj8r1gWgc&NR=1
The HD2 is doing well... ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really?
Read again:
SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS
Platform: Qualcomm Snapdragon™ 8k
OS: Windows Mobile 6.1
Graphics Support: OpenGL ES 2.0
Screen Resolution: 800 x 480
Free RAM: 40 MB
Size on disk (installed): 14 MB
Touch Input
from the youtube video posted by the developers of the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCwtOioGR8c
"This is one of the worlds first WVGA OpenGLES 2.0 games developed specifically for Qualcomm's Adreno 200 graphics core by Southend and Qualcomms Advanced Content Group. This next generation game i... "
This game requires OpenGL ES 2. period.
clubtech said:
Really?
Read again:
SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS
Platform: Qualcomm Snapdragon™ 8k
OS: Windows Mobile 6.1
Graphics Support: OpenGL ES 2.0
Screen Resolution: 800 x 480
Free RAM: 40 MB
Size on disk (installed): 14 MB
Touch Input
from the youtube video posted by the developers of the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCwtOioGR8c
"This is one of the worlds first WVGA OpenGLES 2.0 games developed specifically for Qualcomm's Adreno 200 graphics core by Southend and Qualcomms Advanced Content Group. This next generation game i... "
This game requires OpenGL ES 2. period.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well OK, I hope you are right since I get mine in a few days
Thanks for confirming it works guy's, so much for the OP claiming his Omnia II was flying whilst the HD failed