Database Users

Once Again: Magician Or Wizard?

Hi There All!
Get back from a longer break, because my magician is in service.
My friend called me last day and offered a Wizard (T-mobile Vario) to me.
I have read that the Wizard has a slower processor, but it is a dual cored think or what....I heard it is like the processors in the laptop (ex.: centrino has 1.6 GHz but it is 2.x GHz.)
So all guys who have tried it, and magician too, please post the experiments.
I want to use it for/to:
- WiFi
- MP3 Playback
- Some video playback maybe
- Read E-books/ Adobe PDFs
- Play with some games (mainly high quality games such as Arvale, Everquest, Myst etc.)
- Take pictures/videos
So please post your opinions, about Wizard, and tells me which one of this will be slower, on Wizard.
Thanks, and Cheers

OK, so it's not dual core, hell no.
Well, OK, it is. But one core is for the radio stuff, and is not used in application processing.
It is a different /type/ of processor though, so it's not really fair to compare it to the X-scale in the magician (I think it's from Texas Instruments?). I hear it is a mite slower though, so I don't know.
Also: it has Windows Mobile 5, so you can get your A2DP on from any app, not just WMP.
Me, I'd go for it in a shot. Hell, if Orange UK did one I'd have one already, those odd kids.

bobgorila said:
OK, so it's not dual core, hell no.
Well, OK, it is. But one core is for the radio stuff, and is not used in application processing.
It is a different /type/ of processor though, so it's not really fair to compare it to the X-scale in the magician (I think it's from Texas Instruments?). I hear it is a mite slower though, so I don't know.
Also: it has Windows Mobile 5, so you can get your A2DP on from any app, not just WMP.
Me, I'd go for it in a shot. Hell, if Orange UK did one I'd have one already, those odd kids.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you say OMAP is slower for multimedia (MP3, Video). And for the other ones?

Nope, I didn't. Though the wiki article on the Wizard certainly seems to suggest that.
I'd be interested to know how it fares with the sorts of files I view, and now that TCPMP is at 0.72 (the test were done with 0.50).
Certainly the implication is that it is not so hot for multi-tasking, which is a shame. My Magician seems to carry on almost as normal while I play music of various bitrates and codecs, if the Wizard did not then it would be a big minus.
Also: the Hermes has a 300Mhz Samsung chip, I wonder how it stacks up against these two? That thing certainly is looking like a dream phone right now.

The Omap 850 definately is slower than the XScale in the Magician. This is what many people state and what Benchmarks prove. Also the slow flash memory and WM5 makes a big difference. Don't expect the speed of a Magician with any of the HTC WM5 devices.
The Samsung CPU in the Hermes has about the performance as the XScale of the Magician.

TyTN/Hermes DOES NOT underperform.

What on earth is going on? I know where talking about 2 different Moblie operating Systems and devices, but he performance difference explains alot in terms of why the TyTN/Hermes....is underperforming in the Video department, especially with TCPMP.
If this is the case with Video, which can easily be measured for performance, how much more are these Hermes devices lacking in other departments.
Apparently the developers of TCPMP at corecodec are aware of this problem, but it seems to be more related to the Hermes itself.
Below are a few screenshots of 2 different Pocket PCs using the same Samsung 400 Mhz CPU but with completely different results.
Also, I would not necessariliy pay the figures too much mind if the Video performance was at least as good as on the Vario I or the HTC Prophet, but it is not IMHO.
Tell me what you guys think. Maybe I've got it all wrong.
I did have it at all wrong. please read up about the ATI thingy in other post.

I'm dissapointed with the speed too. I'm wondering if it's got anything to do with the 32-bit bus used?

bydandie said:
I'm dissapointed with the speed too. I'm wondering if it's got anything to do with the 32-bit bus used?
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Hi bydandie.
You may have a point, but then I'm not having any other speed issues. What were the bus speeds on the Universal and Wizard? Do you know? Also;
Samsung (R)2442A [Hermes]
Samsung S3C2440 [HP iPAQ rx3715]
Both run @ 400Mhz
but as we can they don't appear to be identical processors. I'll google around for some info as I'm no expert, but it may still be ROM specific.
What Hermes variant have you got again? and what ROM version?

I was hoping the upgraded 200 extra mhz over the Vario, would be good, apprently it doesn't sound like the video playback is that much better. What is the video playback like ?

This is down to the Hermes not being able to utilise the ATI acceleration technology (can't remember the actual name) properly.
If you try playing a video in TCPMP with the acceleration on, on the Hermes, you will find that the screen shutters like mad!
So you can only use raw video mode for now, which is pretty slow. (But plenty quick enough for 320x240 videos, i.e. most "pocket pr0n")

mackaby007 said:
bydandie said:
I'm dissapointed with the speed too. I'm wondering if it's got anything to do with the 32-bit bus used?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi bydandie.
You may have a point, but then I'm not having any other speed issues. What were the bus speeds on the Universal and Wizard? Do you know? Also;
Samsung (R)2442A [Hermes]
Samsung S3C2440 [HP iPAQ rx3715]
Both run @ 400Mhz
but as we can they don't appear to be identical processors. I'll google around for some info as I'm no expert, but it may still be ROM specific.
What Hermes variant have you got again? and what ROM version?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Wizard was 16-bit. I'm using the v1605 but with the HTC ROM.

mackaby007 said:
Hi bydandie.
You may have a point, but then I'm not having any other speed issues. What were the bus speeds on the Universal and Wizard? Do you know? Also;
Samsung (R)2442A [Hermes]
Samsung S3C2440 [HP iPAQ rx3715]
Both run @ 400Mhz
but as we can they don't appear to be identical processors. I'll google around for some info as I'm no expert, but it may still be ROM specific.
What Hermes variant have you got again? and what ROM version?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both run at the same CPU speed, but have very different operating systems. According to the screen shot in the first post, the rx3700 tested is running pocket pc 4.21 (2003 second edition IIRC), whereas the Hermes is running Windows Mobile 5. I would guess the rx3700 doesn't have the slowdown related to persistant storage (for example), using some form of flash for memory is going to be slower than RAM.

I have a Eten M600 on WM5 and the samsung 400 proc. the TyTN use also the 400 proc.
When i compare them both on speed then my Eten is much faster in every way. much more responsive. opening and rendering screens.
Altough i prefer my TyTN over the M600, the build-hardware and sound is much better.
I guess it must be the ROM that isn't perfect yet ( and it isn't perfect yet for sure).

I have a Eten M600 on WM5 and the samsung 400 proc. the TyTN use also the 400 proc.
When i compare them both on speed then my Eten is much faster in every way. much more responsive. opening and rendering screens.
Altough i prefer my TyTN over the M600, the build-hardware and sound is much better.
I guess it must be the ROM that isn't perfect yet ( and it isn't perfect yet for sure).

ROM or CPU lacking?
luminus said:
I have a Eten M600 on WM5 and the samsung 400 proc. the TyTN use also the 400 proc.
When i compare them both on speed then my Eten is much faster in every way. much more responsive. opening and rendering screens.
Altough i prefer my TyTN over the M600, the build-hardware and sound is much better.
I guess it must be the ROM that isn't perfect yet ( and it isn't perfect yet for sure).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your input guys. Luminus your point sounds like there may be hope for us all yet, but having said that, bydandie has switched to the TyTN ROM and I have moved to the I-mate ROM and admittedly we have both both probably experienced some improvements over the ROMs our devices shipped with but the Video playback issue remains, albeit slightly improved too (therefore indicative of being software related).
I spent several hours reading up on the SC32442A Samsung processor and I have to admit, whilst not having enough knowledge to fully understand all the technicalities, it seems that the CPU in the Hermes is one serious 'dude' which is not being used to its Full potential. Apparently its just as quick as a Xscale 520MHz CPU!
I can believe it due to the responsiveness of my device in general (with I-mate ROM), but its just not evident in the Videoplayback department.
I've also tried many differently encoded movie clips like its native MP4 and Divx etc but only negligable differences. I now believe, as posted by bydandie (I think), that its due to the ATI acceleration chip/software not doing what it is supposed and that maybe HTC should look into this as the different ROMs don't seem to make any worthwhile difference in this particular department.
For anyone who's reading this for the first time let me clarify that playback speed is acceptable to watch any well encoded movie (320x240 @ up to 768 kbps) but pausing, forwarding etc then resuming playback is where the problems occurr (for me anyhow). Benchmarking shows that the Wizard (overclocked @240MHz) easily outperforms the Hermes, but not in everything else. Though admittedly I also find the overclocked HTC Prophet @240MHz more responsive all round! Again this seems to indicate that acceleration support is missing across the border.
For the record: I no longer believe TCPMP is in any way at fault. It performs outstandingly on every other device I have ever installed it on, including Samsungs i300 which also had a 400MHz CPU and benchmarked the same videos at well over 300% compared to 120% - 180% were getting on the Hermes!
I give up for now, the problem is way beyond me but hopefully not far off from being found.

Samsung CPU
I'd be interested where you read about this CPU.
It's based on ARMv4 dating back to 2002 and as such is functionally very poor in comparison to the ARMv5 Xscale platforms. This is why it won't allow the current versions of iPlay to operate. It's also unlikely to have the xscale power and performance scaling capabilities as it pre-dated Xscale.
In practise the only thing that has affected me is iplay.
I have just upgraded my 2750 to WM5.
Contrary to what I was told when I purchased the upgrade (many months ago) it is much much faster than the tytn in every respect. It also seems more stable.
For day to day work though - I don't use the TyTN for video - ipod and Archos cover that for me - I find performance very adequate though.
Paul.

Re: Samsung CPU
pgamble said:
I'd be interested where you read about this CPU.
It's based on ARMv4 dating back to 2002 and as such is functionally very poor in comparison to the ARMv5 Xscale platforms. This is why it won't allow the current versions of iPlay to operate. It's also unlikely to have the xscale power and performance scaling capabilities as it pre-dated Xscale.
In practise the only thing that has affected me is iplay.
I have just upgraded my 2750 to WM5.
Contrary to what I was told when I purchased the upgrade (many months ago) it is much much faster than the tytn in every respect. It also seems more stable.
For day to day work though - I don't use the TyTN for video - ipod and Archos cover that for me - I find performance very adequate though.
Paul.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi again pgamble. I remember you answered an earlier post of mine regarding the CPU. It seems you understand more on these CPUs than I do.
I've provided the linl below to where I read all about the 2442 CPUs (they seem to have variants of it). Hope you understand it better than me. Please let us know what you make of it. Bydandie mentioned that the Hermes uses a 32bit Bus as opposed to the 16 bit Bus used on the first Vario. Do you know if this would negatively or positively affect the speed of data? I would have thought positive, but then I don't fully understand all the technical jargon in the provided link which will probably explain how the technology is utilised.
I hope it doesn't have to share too much of the available data bus/ bandwidth (whatever it is), thus bottlenecking the CPU. I still think at this time its related to the acceleration technology of the ATI Imageon.
http://www.samsung.com/products/sem...ationProcessor/ARM9Series/SC32442/SC32442.htm

http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=61370 :wink:

Hermes is a mini-powerhouse!!
Sorry I should have elaborated in that last post which directs you to more accurate information since I started this thread. The Hermes is in fact a mini-powerhouse and even beats the Universal for playback performance under the right conditions.

It's great that the Hermes is powerfull and beats the Universal under the "right conditions"!
But under the "right conditions" DOS beats Windows, it's just a matter on how you compare... :wink:
However, TCPMP still doesn't work as it should on the Hermes. *Standing by for new ROM*

Moskus said:
It's great that the Hermes is powerfull and beats the Universal under the "right conditions"!
But under the "right conditions" DOS beats Windows, it's just a matter on how you compare... :wink:
However, TCPMP still doesn't work as it should on the Hermes. *Standing by for new ROM*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ROM ive settled on (imate) will play back no problems with rawframebuffer set for the video output. Admittedly id prefer to use the ATI acceleration but this temporary measure is still ok for me. Sound playback has improved as it does not stutter to a halt after a pause or skip. (for the record im using a 2pass Xvid encoded avi file with 128kbps MP3 audio) this is evident in both the imate and dopod roms......but not the updated HTC rom.

ATI & The Core Player v1.0
I agree with you both (last 2 posts), but from further investigations, it seems that the problem is not related to the ROM either but onlt to the ATI decoder. I've e-mailed ATI in the hope that they can enlighten or help us all. :lol: Fat chance of that I know, but in the ATI Hanheld Interface, there is a version number v2.30.......maybe that can somehow be updated directly if ATI will offer some support or through a ROM update (though it does seem like firmware) .
Anyway all said and done I'm going to keep looking until I find a way to get that bloody decoder to work permanently as it seriously improves all video formats by at least 100% in benchmarking, which means no dropped frames for High Quality encoded files.
Alternatively keep an eye out for the new TCPMP player (The Core Player v1.0) which will hopefully address all these issues within the coming weeks/months. :wink:

Yer i can imagine a ROM update may include an ATI-written updater within it which will sort out the problems. It DOES sound like something that can be fixed though so hopefully soon we will all have it working correctly. :lol:

So, AKU3.3 ROM did fix the problem with ATI, where you had screen going crazy, but there are decoding artefacts which I belive are down to TCPMP/Coreplayer to fix.

schriss said:
So, AKU3.3 ROM did fix the problem with ATI, where you had screen going crazy, but there are decoding artefacts which I belive are down to TCPMP/Coreplayer to fix.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yer, if you look on the coreplayer forum there is a recommended encoding rate etc... but ive still watched videos no problem even using a different encoding rate.

best processor

hi!which processor is better?the one HTC TYTN has or the Mio A701 ?thank you in advance!

aristotelisb said:
hi!which processor is better?the one HTC TYTN has or the Mio A701 ?thank you in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have both devices.. but I think the Xscale 520 Mhz is faster but.....
but the processor from my vario is more stable... Tomtom 6 works the same... the pull down menu from WM5 is little bit slower...
But at the end... the vario is much more a winner... !!!!
Mio A701 is a bad phone... poor audio, poor gsm hardware!! OLD stuff!!
Vario II / Tytn has a good mix of ROM and Hardware!!!

thank you very much!i am about to buy the TYTN and i just wanted to know that i am making a good choice!thank you again!

As processor, XScale is clearly the best.
Samsung is slower while cheaper. Also Samsung lacks Wireless MMX instructions, thats why newest XScales of similar frequency outperform Samsungs almost 2x times in decoding video.
Stability have nothing to do with processor, its up to software & manufacturer. All processors are stable - thats, they work up to exact specifications. Its software that glitches, regardless of processor.
Before you buy TYTN (and any other device), look at corresponding forums for problems people experience.

well... wutt can I say mate?
for my use my vario II is speedy enough. have no probs at all. great device.

My Jasjam is more than fast enough.

I beleive he asked "what is the best", not "what is the good enough".
Though he should've asked in "general" forum
Even 200 MHz OMAP is good enough for a lot of people, considering its wonderful energy efficiency.

Thank you very much for your answers!i am gonna buy the TYTN!!!!!!

I agree with all of the above. I've got both, and although the A701 is fast out of the box, and can be overclocked, the Hermes is surprisingly fast - most users won't need to complain, so in real world usage you'll have no worries with either. But I'd go with the Hermes if you have to choose between the two phones, not the two processors.
V

vijay555 said:
I agree with all of the above. I've got both, and although the A701 is fast out of the box, and can be overclocked, the Hermes is surprisingly fast - most users won't need to complain, so in real world usage you'll have no worries with either. But I'd go with the Hermes if you have to choose between the two phones, not the two processors.
V
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Click to collapse
Yep .. you need to look at the entire package (best is TyTN) and see what you really need/like ... processor is just a part ..

thank you very much for your help!

Ati W2284

Hey there,
Was doing alot of research online about the graphic chipset from ATI on Athena but not even ATi has any infomation on their Webby.
Anyone know the specs of this w2284 chipset? Would really like to have more information on the chipset.....
Cheers

i agree with you, i tried to find info on the chipset to but i couldn't so i was like fu*k it and bought it anyways

Interesting thing, I was looking for Intel® PXA270 and found out all things are over to Marvell. Pretty confusing but ATI is just part of that chip, not a special chip

I saw some posts at the Coreplayer (comercial version of TCPMP) forum that ATI has refused to make the specs of that chip available to the Coreplayer developers, effectively crippling the chip for being used my alternative media players.

that very intersting, will i think we all need to find a player that ati likes

ATI W2284 not only for processing video and graphics, but also for handling the camera. Particularly, calculating autofocus algorithms and settings of automatic white balance are done with the help of this graphic subsystem

hmm... i think tt is known.... But if i m not wrong my old blueangel also uses ATI chipset...
problem is like example nVidia's Goforce 5500 is known to have a clock speed of 150 to 200 mhz....
how much is ATI's W2284??? Secondly does it have hardware encoding N decoding of H.264 videos??
Blah blah blah... Lots of qns left unanswered.
Anyone knows??
Cheers....

bLiTz^ said:
hmm... i think tt is known.... But if i m not wrong my old blueangel also uses ATI chipset...
problem is like example nVidia's Goforce 5500 is known to have a clock speed of 150 to 200 mhz....
how much is ATI's W2284??? Secondly does it have hardware encoding N decoding of H.264 videos??
Blah blah blah... Lots of qns left unanswered.
Anyone knows??
Cheers....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read here:
http://ati.amd.com/products/handheld/imageonfaq.html
http://ati.amd.com/products/imageon2282/index.html
and here:
http://ati.amd.com/products/handheld/products.html
Not very definitive I know, but never really found much else about them since last year and I believe ATI is remaining tight lipped for a reason...also not releasing info to Corecodec so they can support the chipset properly.
Notice also in the 3rd link, 2282 is listed,......but where is the mention of 2284?
I give up with ATI/AMD/Imageon....Imagine if we could get the best out of it via hardware decoding...how sweet that would be.
Just have to settle for using the Imageon driver for now, as it still yields visually better results thatn Rawframe buffer mode or direct draw and outperforms both in benchmarks fo speed.
Sorry can't help any more than that. Good luck on finding anything else useful.

no probs mackaby007......
Hmm i wonder...... mayb W2284 is actually a Modified Imageon W2282...
W2282 supports 3MP Cam.....

bLiTz^ said:
no probs mackaby007......
Hmm i wonder...... mayb W2284 is actually a Modified Imageon W2282...
W2282 supports 3MP Cam.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I thought too.

Ive noticed a real delay between image and sound when playing some games.
Games in question are FIFA 2002 from EA Sports and also Smart Tennis from SIMBSOFT.
Did anybody noticed something similar??

Any news? I'm waiting for optimized Ati W2284 driver for HTC Athena... May be it will be supported in CorePlayer...

Any news? I'm waiting for optimized Ati W2284 driver for HTC Athena... May be it will be supported in CorePlayer...
up )

bLiTz^ said:
Hey there,
Was doing alot of research online about the graphic chipset from ATI on Athena but not even ATi has any infomation on their Webby.
Anyone know the specs of this w2284 chipset? Would really like to have more information on the chipset.....
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, thinks for your work.I'm sorry I don't konw how to help you.But i think it maybe like qualcomm 7200's graphics chip.because the first ppc phone base on qualcomm 7200 is kaiser/TyTN II has the same problem as our 7500 at first.but someone solved it by modfy the 7201a driver for diamond for it.and the 7200 is the first product after ati sold the handheld products to qualcomm.so i think they maybe a little like.
i'm sorry for my poor english!

N95 Faster than my BA !?

Ok now the funny thing is that i've recorded an MP4 video with a Nokia N95 mobile. When i tried to play it , TCPMP reports an Average speed of 64.85% and it cannot play it correctly. However, on the N95, the Realone Player is able to play it at even 150% speed ( fast forward ) and my PDA is not even able to get the 70%. It's a 2.7mbps video with 640x480 resolution @29.987fps. But how come the N95 with an OMAP2420 processor @330MHZ can outperform a PXA263 overclocked !?

your comparision is irrelevant, because you compare phone made back in 2004 and phone made in 2007. A lot in hardware has changed since 2004.
you can try to compare N95 with TyTN II (HTC Kaiser), and you will see that the Nokia is piece of crap

im comparing a PDA with a cellular phone...

Xeon said:
im comparing a PDA with a cellular phone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe the cellphone has faster memory.... cpu isn't everything, if you memory (buffer) is the bottleneck...

Datake said:
maybe the cellphone has faster memory.... cpu isn't everything, if you memory (buffer) is the bottleneck...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and differents istruction set!
Possibly N95 has hw decoding chip for video for better performace.
and differents OS!
N95 has symbian, BA has WM
comparision is realy irrelevant, they have too much differents

yeah well as a conclusion the cellular phone is capable of what my device isnt

Xeon said:
yeah well as a conclusion the cellular phone is capable of what my device isnt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, becouse it's newer and different respect BA.

N95 vs HTC P3300 ... http://my-symbian.com/s60v3/review_n95_artemis.php

Xeon said:
N95 vs HTC P3300 ... http://my-symbian.com/s60v3/review_n95_artemis.php
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Infact, read this in article:
The processor of the N95 is the ARM11-based OMAP2420 running at 330 MHz, featuring integrated DSP and 3D graphics/video acceleration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Okay looked at the Specs on the N95, 5Mp Camera, Built in GPS ... etc etc. This comparison in phones is a useless. The N95 is built up to play media content, its part of its primary selling point (see ramdacBlueAngel's quote). Not a strictly "Cell Phone", just as the BA isn't a strictly "Classic PDA". Both are phones and thats where the comparison ends. Should note, this phone goes for $690 as compared to the BA which goes for about $150. The phone should be compared to phones of the present market.
One things for sure though, I would bet good money the N95 is NOWHERE near as robust as the BA. I bought this phone for instance because it was affordable and upgradable to the newer OS's. The a huge shock comes when I find some angel has made it possible to make this robust phone/ pda WM6 capable. Now thats cool.