[REF Idea]*Chef input required please* ROM Spec & content - easy choice & comparison.
Hi all HD2 XDA'ers
As we know, the "Which ROM is best" question can be so subjective that no single thread or poll can accurately help you make a decision. Also they get closed and locked pretty quick by the mods.
The users and flashers need some method of selecting ROMs, or at least prioritizing which we try first, based on their individual requirements.
In addition, and perhaps more importantly, the ROM chefs have no standardised way to illustrate or describe exactly what their ROM is like to prospective users. The many posts and threads do not enable any form of comparison.
Here's an idea for anyone willing to take up the challenge:
Unfortunately I can't dedicate the time and effort required, however I know it would be infinitely useful to many users and cooks alike. (Maybe even the mods would find it a useful way of stopping the constant questions, threads and polls of which rom!)
Create a table detailing all the specific (or generic) characteristics of each ROM. Then all chefs, new or experienced, can add their ROMs to the table.
Table would begin with high level details (for a quick overview); then possibly expand to include subtleties and very specific details.
First we would need to create a benchmark using the latest STOCK ROM. This is what the specs of cooked ROMs will be measured against. It should also define all stock apps, etc. for accurate comparisons and to assist the cooks in completing the table for their own ROMs.
For example:
ROM Chef's username
ROM Name/Version
Fully Loaded / Minimalist
Which custom apps included [free text list/csv]
Stock apps cut from Rom [free text list/csv]
What Task Manager used (if any)?
Ringtones stripped? [Y/N]
Media/Wallpapers included
Tweaks included [free text list/csv - or single row for each expected tweak]
Theme changed [description]
Manila version
Cookie/MaxManilla included? [Y/N]
WM Version [6.5 ; 6.5.3 ; 6.5.5]
SYS/XIP build
Free memory after flash (MB)
...and on... (the above is just off the top of my head - it would certainly need more thought, massive expansion and sub-divisions.)
Perhaps start as a thread, work it to a useable format, gathering feedback, comments, suggestions and requests, then move to the Wiki. I recon, if the format and fields are all dimensioned extensively and well enough, the resulting table/wiki would be adopted across all devices.
I would sinserely love to do this myself and regret just pushing the idea out there. I really hope that someone who's heart is really in it, will be willing to take this up to the benefit of all HD2 owners who wish to stick out WM6.5x despite the temptations of other devices, OS's and ports.
All the best,
Hirshy
Information Systems Security Senior Specialist - Networks
T-Mobile (UK) Ltd.
Sounds like a good idea to me.
basically like distrowatch for linux systems? with the package/AKU/radio/Memory/custom apps on the y key, ROM name on the X key. And a blank space in the table where the package is removed?
Just a note - how would someone like you use the data since you work for T-mobile?
chris_ah1 said:
Just a note - how would someone like you use the data since you work for T-mobile?
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Click to collapse
+1 id like to know that too
chris_ah1 said:
Just a note - how would someone like you use the data since you work for T-mobile?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
quasi_mojo said:
+1 id like to know that too
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Click to collapse
Hmmm, what would you guys like me to do with it?...
I have contacts in the Handset teams for testing and procurement. As my particular job role is impacted by the 'quality?' of their firmware, I regularly feedback required changes and user input. Though to be honest, they're unlikely to care much about any roms other than their own customised garbage!
Have you seen the state of T-Mobile's stock ROMs? At least on Android they get OTA updates quite quickly and in-line with the HTC development branch.
However on WinMo it's the regular old story that they release a device and forget about the bugs and updates.
I work in their Network Security team and am becoming more involved in Terminal Security (devices and whether anything compromises the Network or User Data in terms of confidentiality, integrity and availability). I test all new T-Mobile products, services and network features on their respective platforms.
For example on WinMo, there are the new WnW4 Widgets which run from the Opera run-time environment.
So I guess in that respect, as a favour to the community I would be willing to add my own professional input into whether there are any Security or TMO functionality concerns (from the user's perspective) with the ROMs...
My input here isn't for any professional purposes, I am just a member of the community that has worked at T-Mobile for 11 years and has ties to various contacts.
If there are any concerns for my intentions here (which I hope not) I have personally spoken to Dutty Throy about a year and a half ago to provide him with a contract deal so he could hopefully continue his great work at much less expense. I'm certain he would vouch for me...
Regards,
Hirshy
P.S. (If you read this Throy, it seems that you have since moved to Voda, so maybe T-Mob wasn't cutting it even with the deal - I suppose half-price sh!t is still sh!t !)
Yep, cant believe this hasn't been done yet, would totally reduce wasted threads
Big problem is the rate at which roms get updated.
But i see your point that it would be useful.
It's a helluva lot of work though given the number of roms.
Just off the top of my head I can think of 20roms.
And in the past chefs have been slow to submit their roms to a couple of the rom databases that already exist for swift comparison. I do think that this is better than one of those sites. You would have to get a team together and assign five to ten roms each to watch and update a spreadsheet because it's not going to work relying on the chef's input.
but it really might be useful - e.g. Topix 1.5.8 was based on 21898, but now Topix 1.5.9 is based on 21897 and without the weather function. The build might not be so relevant, but missing weather certainly is!!!
Then you also have the question as to whether to include the htcpedia-only roms in the list.
chris_ah1 said:
Big problem is the rate at which roms get updated.
But i see your point that it would be useful.
It's a helluva lot of work though given the number of roms.
Just off the top of my head I can think of 20roms.
And in the past chefs have been slow to submit their roms to a couple of the rom databases that already exist for swift comparison. I do think that this is better than one of those sites. You would have to get a team together and assign five to ten roms each to watch and update a spreadsheet because it's not going to work relying on the chef's input.
but it really might be useful - e.g. Topix 1.5.8 was based on 21898, but now Topix 1.5.9 is based on 21897 and without the weather function. The build might not be so relevant, but missing weather certainly is!!!
Then you also have the question as to whether to include the htcpedia-only roms in the list.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I for one would gladly help with reporting from the roms i test, and it could be nice if a team where assembled to do so, because this whole forum is one big mess, where its impossible to get a little overview with all the threads and all those roms..
One thread to collect information about roms, builds, radios and so on - Would tidy up a lot! And, it would have to be a team of people who are able to stay objective, so that its not a contest of which rom is best..
If this is going to happen - pm me
acdbox said:
Yep, cant believe this hasn't been done yet, would totally reduce wasted threads
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Click to collapse
no it wouldnt, people would still jump the gun and start new pointless threads
Possible way to get started
This could be accomplished using a simple spreadsheet format.
One "Mod" would be in control of the master sheet that would be posted for download.
Team members would be responsible for one or more ROM's as they choose to participate. Submitted to the Mod.
They would get the official blank spreadsheet with labels from the Mod with directions for data consistency.
Only the Mod could add/change the format upon request of the team when new apps or features arise.
Data would be kept as simple as possible in the cells. X=includes, blank=not includes, version number, etc.
Each ROM version would have a column of it's own. Versions could be limited to "last three" or whatever.
Column would have date of posting to show how current the data was.
Most of the work would be front loaded to bring us up to date.
Cut and paste would make this fairly easy for the team and the Mod.
Comparison would then be as easy as reading a chart.
The end user could delete columns and compare ROM's he is interested in.
Start of Col. A labels (add your ideas and let's see if we can come up with a consensus.)
ROM Chef
ROM Name
Version
Build
Language
Radio Required (this could be RadA, RadB, Rad C to Rad F, all picked from a list at the bottom of the sheet)
Theme
Manila version
Cookie
MaxManilla
WM Version
Free memory after flash (MB)
App name 1
App name 2
App name 3
To app infinitum
Well its an awesome IDEA, I am ready to support by all means..!!!
I have already have a site dedicated to filtering roms located at www.xdaroms.com. I am open to ideas to make rom filtering even better.
Great idea!! This is a big hold up for a lot of users: they don't have time to try 20 ROMS, test them and figure out which they want... This is also a hold up for me, I can try some ROMS, like 3 or 4 but I want to know which ROMS I would have to start with... I am not going to take a "risk" flashing HSPL and not having time to install ROMS on it and so....
bowpay said:
I have already have a site dedicated to filtering roms located at www.xdaroms.com. I am open to ideas to make rom filtering even better.
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Click to collapse
+1 that was what I was going to say there is no need for this idea when there is already a comprehensive site that does it.
re xdaroms: at least for the hd2 there are quite a few chefs and roms missing. plus a distrowatch approach where you can see them all lined up is more handy with only one entry for the latest ROM visible.
This means there is room for a seperate glance-database.
chris_ah1 said:
re xdaroms: at least for the hd2 there are quite a few chefs and roms missing. plus a distrowatch approach where you can see them all lined up is more handy with only one entry for the latest ROM visible.
This means there is room for a seperate glance-database.
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Click to collapse
Part of the problem that any website or utility we have is the fact that cooks don't update forum(XDA) or rom(xdaroms) posts correctly. Some like to overwrite old posts or roms and update the build version which causes problems for viewing a history of build versions. I do encourage all the cooks to create new rom posts for each new build. I am also going to allow cooks to import an old rom as a starting point which should make the rom posting a little less tedious.
One solution for showing a build history is to do a group by on the list showing all roms for a paticular version however it will only work if cooks update accordingly.
I don't think this issue can be easily resolved untill I get more cooks on board on xdaroms.com and we can start to formalize a rom posting technique.
Again I am open to ideas and hopefully we can come up with a really nice easy to use way to publish roms.
bowpay said:
Part of the problem that any website or utility we have is the fact that cooks don't update forum(XDA) or rom(xdaroms) posts correctly. Some like to overwrite old posts or roms and update the build version which causes problems for viewing a history of build versions. I do encourage all the cooks to create new rom posts for each new build.
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Click to collapse
Hi bowpay, nice site - sorry I hadn't seen it before.
I think one of the greatest obstacles is exactly that - it is another site. Between XDA-Dev and HTCpedia, users and cooks have enough posts to contend with...
What you state above (quoted) could be mitigated by using a tabular structure instead of posts. New ROM versions would simply be appended to the table, with the old record remaining as a both a history and comparison. The old record would also be the perfect starting point for the cook to update the table (copy the column, paste as new column, update changed details). "Simples!"
I think cooks would find that easier to represent their new roms using this tabular format than constantly changing posts. The single proviso is that is must be complete and total representation of all variables that the ROM might have.
Please can any Chefs reading this, share their opinions/support and post whether they would adopt such a method for keeping users informed of their ROMs and new versions.
In any event, two things could happen:
The cooks utilize a common table for listing ROMs and versions. This would be analogous to a vendor providing a spec-sheet for their product.
Or (if not the cooks) users would create the records and constantly update the fields as they play with the ROM, use it and find the specs. This is comparable to independent reviewers detailing the specs of a product after the vendor has supplied it to them.
Either way would work and be greatly beneficial.
One field per record could even have a hyperlink for download and link to thread for images and discussion.
No objections to XdaRoms assisting the endeavour as it seems to be their speciality - it's all in the title! However for mass exposure and adoption it really needs to be on the cooks first-stop website. I think that is here...?
All the best,
Hirshy
ahirshfield said:
Hi bowpay, nice site - sorry I hadn't seen it before.
I think one of the greatest obstacles is exactly that - it is another site. Between XDA-Dev and HTCpedia, users and cooks have enough posts to contend with...
What you state above (quoted) could be mitigated by using a tabular structure instead of posts. New ROM versions would simply be appended to the table, with the old record remaining as a both a history and comparison. The old record would also be the perfect starting point for the cook to update the table (copy the column, paste as new column, update changed details). "Simples!"
I think cooks would find that easier to represent their new roms using this tabular format than constantly changing posts. The single proviso is that is must be complete and total representation of all variables that the ROM might have.
Please can any Chefs reading this, share their opinions/support and post whether they would adopt such a method for keeping users informed of their ROMs and new versions.
In any event, two things could happen:
The cooks utilize a common table for listing ROMs and versions. This would be analogous to a vendor providing a spec-sheet for their product.
[*]Or (if not the cooks) users would create the records and constantly update the fields as they play with the ROM, use it and find the specs. This is comparable to independent reviewers detailing the specs of a product after the vendor has supplied it to them.
Either way would work and be greatly beneficial.
One field per record could even have a hyperlink for download and link to thread for images and discussion.
No objections to XdaRoms assisting the endeavour as it seems to be their speciality - it's all in the title! However for mass exposure and adoption it really needs to be on the cooks first-stop website. I think that is here...?
All the best,
Hirshy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hear ya I think that its going to be difficult for XDA to adopt this format due to not having things in place and being geared as a forum. I set out to help the XDA community and each day XDARoms is growing. We are going to make it easier to create forum posts by creating a BBCode Generator and our overall goal is to get cooks to post roms first at XDARoms then click the forum post generator link on a paticular rom. The post generator will generate BBCode or HTML for XDA or Pedia or any forum for that matter (Copy and paste).
Our niche is Roms so cooks will naturally want to post roms on the site because we geared the site towards cooks and it will simplify the rom posting for all websites. It may take time but I am dedicated to making rom posting as easy as possible. After all I am not just the president I am also a member (Hair club for men). lol
I really like where this post is going so any other chefs like to chime in and give us your 2cents? Much appreciated.
--Edit--
What you state above (quoted) could be mitigated by using a tabular structure instead of posts. New ROM versions would simply be appended to the table, with the old record remaining as a both a history and comparison. The old record would also be the perfect starting point for the cook to update the table (copy the column, paste as new column, update changed details). "Simples!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I get a little more time I will take a look at the rom posting process and use some of your suggestions. The database schema is all setup to do exactly that it will just take a little time to make the UI behave.
Well...I think it can be automated... is there a command line tool to extract all such information from a nbh file ? Can someone point me to anything similar ?
My idea : After a upload, automation extracts all such information and automatically appends to the spreadsheet/online sheet...so less work for the webmaster and the chef
ahirshfield said:
In addition, and perhaps more importantly, the ROM chefs have no standardised way to illustrate or describe exactly what their ROM is like to prospective users. The many posts and threads do not enable any form of comparison.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not use the wiki for that?
chris_ah1 said:
but it really might be useful - e.g. The build might not be so relevant, but missing weather certainly is!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't know how you came to that conclusion but you are certainly wrong. Don't spread wrong information mate.
Related
Ok everyone,
There's been alot of movement both forward and laterally on the vogue-android project lately, and while it's all been great I'm having some concerns.
There has been alot of forking lately of the project. Different builds are great and I can't encourage that enough, but with all of the changes, and great developments being made to the rootfs and kernel we are losing alot of what made this project going great.
There's such a jumble of builds, out there right now it's getting confusing for everyone. So please guys can we move the project back to centralization?
By that I mean build threads are for system images only.
Changes to the rootfs's and kernel's are fantastic, but please can we make a new thread just for those?
As well to all the kaiser guys. Don't get me wrong I think it's great that so many of these files are working so good for you guys but can you keep development of your port to your forum, so there's less confusion for the new people? I've said it lots, if any of the kaiser guys wanna port over the builds I've ported to kaiser's go ahead, but please post them in the kaiser forum.
I'll happily keep the google code page updated with new bundles, that have been tested and confirmed stable, that page is not for specific people's work only, but for vogue/kaiser files that can be considered the standard files to use.
I support this.
well put. i feel the exact same way. i've given up till a bundle comes out cause im confused what is the newest or if it will work(not a fan of the kaiser now that they took over). I'm really hoping for more development on the android rom but im a script kiddie and no developer.. unfortunately
thanks for bringing this up
I could not agree more!
I've actually returned to running WinMo on my phone because I've become so lost in the Android project. There's so many different forks out there, and all sorts of random files being uploaded to Google Code, I have absolutely no idea what is what anymore.
It was going really well when vilord and dzo were working on it, now suddenly it seems both of them are out of it and the "vanilla" Android 1.5 builds are no longer being worked on. There hasn't been a basic "system" update in nearly a month now.
And to make matters worse, there's no clear explanation of what's what anywhere and nobody is posting proper change logs. So all these new files keep popping up with no word on what they're for and what's changed.
I just want to run Android on my phone, with no stupid skins, UI replacements or massive customizations of any kind... and I don't know how to do that anymore.
I'm not really sure why all this work seems to be focused on customizations right now anyways, when there are much more important things to work on like Bluetooth, aGPS, and a flashable ROM.
Yes, this is most definitively needed, not to stifle anyone's creativity, but to allow the maximum number of people to enjoy the project. Otherwise it's far too possible that all the various ports will just turn people off to Android, and it's far too important to allow that to happen. I've already asked mssmison to post whole, relatively stable packages so people don't get overwhelmed with all the various components and builds. Maybe a re-fresh of the packages every 2 or 3 weeks, along with the testing packages for all you brave souls to make it more user friendly.
I'm going to re-organize the google code page for vogue tonight so it should be more clear for everyone. vilord isn't out of the project, he just is moving
I've cleaned up the google code page a bit, I've depreciated some older downloads and the older bundle.
I keep all my builds separate and off the vogue-android page too keep it clean and focused on the main bundle there which is android-1.5-x. The test rootfs.imgs that I put out are only for testing purposes and are my personal experiments related to hero and they stay on vogue-hero. They do not apply to non hero builds and I try to state that in the threads I started for my other two non hero builds. I'm not supporting squashfs right now and I'm not going to be posting builds in squashfs right now. If people think that squashfs is the way to go then all images need to be in squashfs including android-1.5x builds. That would avoid the main squashfs rootfs/kernel/initrd fork thats going on with people downloading the squashfs base files. I don't support kaiser wifi builds of my hero images because they don't work for the vogue. I'll be taking down all kaiser/squashfs related files on vogue-hero until further notice and create vogue bundles of the files that work with each build.
i agree about too many different builds and files mixed together, it's really confusing to an average user like me who's sorta new to android. you devs should package up a zip with all the most stable, needed files for you specific builds so we can't mess up and download something that might not work right. myself i use my phone daily and for work, so i need stability.
mssmison said:
Ok everyone,
There's been alot of movement both forward and laterally on the vogue-android project lately, and while it's all been great I'm having some concerns.
There has been alot of forking lately of the project. Different builds are great and I can't encourage that enough, but with all of the changes, and great developments being made to the rootfs and kernel we are losing alot of what made this project going great.
There's such a jumble of builds, out there right now it's getting confusing for everyone. So please guys can we move the project back to centralization?
By that I mean build threads are for system images only.
Changes to the rootfs's and kernel's are fantastic, but please can we make a new thread just for those?
As well to all the kaiser guys. Don't get me wrong I think it's great that so many of these files are working so good for you guys but can you keep development of your port to your forum, so there's less confusion for the new people? I've said it lots, if any of the kaiser guys wanna port over the builds I've ported to kaiser's go ahead, but please post them in the kaiser forum.
I'll happily keep the google code page updated with new bundles, that have been tested and confirmed stable, that page is not for specific people's work only, but for vogue/kaiser files that can be considered the standard files to use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 to this! It's getting cluttered and confusing... BUT AWESOME!
stickus said:
+1 to this! It's getting cluttered and confusing... BUT AWESOME!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is it looking better now on the google code page?
whatever is in that new base files package really sped up my build from zen, ill tell you that much, now my phone recieves calls too. the only thing i notice is im back to the old style button map settings for adjusting volume and waking up the phone and such?
things look a lot cleaner on the google code page now... just DL-ing the new bundle you posted and we'll see how things go from there. Glad to hear that that old button layout is back, not really a fan of the newer one.
all i know is there is no lag to my build at all now, WOW...nice work guys!
fixxxer2008 said:
whatever is in that new base files package really sped up my build from zen, ill tell you that much, now my phone recieves calls too. the only thing i notice is im back to the old style button map settings for adjusting volume and waking up the phone and such?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All thanks to the bundle of files go to pmos, him and no one else. I just put together the system.
The button thing was accidental, however I have had alot of problems with my camera button not working intermittantly, we are working on a way of it being user selectable at boot.
I would also agree that some sort of organization is definitely needed. I think that system image threads should be condensed or organized in some way also. Having 15 threads, each with not too much information on what the build actually is, and info on the new update on page 15... just makes it hard for everyone. New comers and people who are experienced and trying to help others.
TheKartus said:
I would also agree that some sort of organization is definitely needed. I think that system image threads should be condensed or organized in some way also. Having 15 threads, each with not too much information on what the build actually is, and info on the new update on page 15... just makes it hard for everyone. New comers and people who are experienced and trying to help others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are 5 threads for builds. One for the kernel.
welll my phone is still running good today with that new bundle that was posted last night.
im still getting used to the old style button mapping but to be honest i like it better this way.
I think this post goes in the wrong direction.
The best thing of Android is that devs from different mobiles are working toguether to improve our phones.
I´m a polaris user and in the development of android for polaris developers with different phones help a lot
What we need is an Android section as it´s being petitioned in order to develop all toguether. Of course with organization.
Let´s think as Android and not only as vogue
iseeka said:
I think this post goes in the wrong direction.
The best thing of Android is that devs from different mobiles are working toguether to improve our phones.
I´m a polaris user and in the development of android for polaris developers with different phones help a lot
What we need is an Android section as it´s being petitioned in order to develop all toguether. Of course with organization.
Let´s think as Android and not only as vogue
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree but remember this is a vogue forum, so for the average user that comes here, they have a vogue. If you guys have a polaris dev get him to contact me and we'll look into making the bundles work right with your phones as well.
Again this is why I posted the poll to move the dev to another forum where we can have proper organization
Just a thought as I'm having trouble locating up to date builds and differentiating between the builds for the vogue.
Why not zip the system files with a read me file with maybe the date and developer/editor name or contact info?
I think this will keep testers more up to date, and the feedback will go back to the right developers.
gnovak99 said:
Just a thought as I'm having trouble locating up to date builds and differentiating between the builds for the vogue.
Why not zip the system files with a read me file with maybe the date and developer/editor name or contact info?
I think this will keep testers more up to date, and the feedback will go back to the right developers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the readme is a good idea. i did that for a couple builds. as far as the dates go the date the build is put up is on the google code site and if you click on the description it says who uploaded it. i also have threads for my builds. and mssmision has one thread covering all of his and vilord has his thread which is the google ion android 1.5 build. If you want i'll add the names to the descriptions in the vogue-android google code page.
yeah maybe adding tags to builds with developers names to the google code page might make it a little more oganized.
I think with threads theres always alot of clutter and new builds get over looked, not really getting the exposure they deserve.
I sell smart phones for Sprint and for Microsoft, this android - Vogue port is amazing and I would like to get more people involved. But i cant do so until its a little more accessable to the common user.
This is a looong overdue set of ideas. If this was JUST a hobby for you guys the disorganization would be ok (I guess) but since your sharing them with the world, anything you can do to make the builds more user friendly is great. It also helps user report bugs, glitches with more precision, and insures that they have a really awesome experience with your hard work.
gjbnh said:
This is a looong overdue set of ideas. If this was JUST a hobby for you guys the disorganization would be ok (I guess) but since your sharing them with the world, anything you can do to make the builds more user friendly is great. It also helps user report bugs, glitches with more precision, and insures that they have a really awesome experience with your hard work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do realize that you can report bugs on the Google code pages. There has been a lot of hard work getting to where we're at now. We are a group of people from all around the word coming together make android run on the vogue.
And i think what gjbnh is trying to say is that we would like to collaborate with you and maybe make it easier for other people to help as well.
The google page is an AWESOME idea, but truth be told, not everyone goes there to download android on their phone.
Direct links to older versions are sprawled out all over the internet, especially this forum.
When someone runs a search on "Vogue Android" the first three results are going to determine whether they will bother or move on.
gnovak99 said:
And i think what gjbnh is trying to say is that we would like to collaborate with you and maybe make it easier for other people to help as well.
The google page is an AWESOME idea, but truth be told, not everyone goes there to download android on their phone.
Direct links to older versions are sprawled out all over the internet, especially this forum.
When someone runs a search on "Vogue Android" the first three results are going to determine whether they will bother or move on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand that and I'm all for organization but it seems right now we might be moving forums and hosting. I agree that from the perspective of a new person coming here and wanting to try android on their vogue/kaiser/polaris that it does seem a little confusing.
What kind of collaboration are you looking to do? dzo and vilord are the owners of the vogue-android google code page and it's their work which has put vogue android on the map. Aside from repackaging the builds with better more complete packages and a readme with clear instructions there isn't really a lot more that we can do. We have the forums here for questions and you can report bugs at the google code page too. I think the vogue-android page is set up quite nicely. The download page can be cleaned up a bit but the main bundles are right up at the top. You have mssmisions package, the google ion package, and the vogue-hero package.
Hi,
as much as I would like a custom ROM and all it's nicities and upgrades, I'm always concerned that a new version comes out every couple of days, meaning that we have to go through the upgrade process again, install our apps etc.
so, in an attempt to counter this, is there a table anywhere that lists the ROMs, their versions, their bug count (even a user rating perhaps) that would help keep people informed of what ROM might suit them?
Yes I know that each ROM has it's thread, but at 60 or 70 pages, it's difficult to understand and follow since a lot of the comments don't actually realte to the version that is now available.
so, I'm proposing a much simpler method of tracking versions and helping people to understand what works and what doesn't.
any thoughts?
No rom builder would go for that. They like to protect what they have invested much time and effort in and want to keep all comments, negative or positive in their respective threads so that there is no hate or smear campaigns spread about their roms all over the place.
Even a mention of any issues in a rom (greyed out options, sound bugs, multiple resets needed etc.) appearing in another thread is frowned upon.
Direct comparisons in one thread is not considered constructive.
However, I do hope that enough think it might work.
Perhaps integrate it into another cataolguing project?
and I understand the need to protect what the Chefs have spent their time on, so I'm not proposing a slagging off of any ROM,
but there are going to be people (like me for example) that would like to know in which areas of the ROM bugs exists.
some people might think that a bug in the Sense screen isn't important (I don't use sense and have it turned off), but a bug in Activesync is (vital for me that this works correctly and reliably). and it would help those people see the ROM that is best for them. The alternative, is for them to flash a ROM, find out that it doesn't work for them , and then complain.
Just thought it would be nicer for people to admit where their ROM fails upfront is all.
And if you make it in a chart, that only the Chefs can edit, there is no opportunity for others to slag off the ROM, but a chance for peope to see at a glance which ROM will be best for them.
You mean something along the lines of this...http://tiny.cc/CN2Qt
WB
ooops..yup..just like that
thanks...I'll settle down for a good read
The title of the thread is just to get all you fine people steaming in here to tell me off. But now your here by your own free will...
I've been a long time browser of these forums and recently a more active member. I used to be a very amateur coder when I was yonger and know to a small extent the hard work you guys put into these roms, so seriously to everyone congratulations on some amazing efforts.
I did want to address the reason topic titles such as the one I chose here crop up however. When I had a diamond before my HD2 there were just a few good roms to choose from and I soon settled down and chose one after trying them out. A few months back I started this same process with my HD2 but found every ROM I flashed to have a few bugs which annoyed me in day to day use, and I eventually went back to stock. Since then I havn't really tried again.
Today I have again been looking at perhaps flashing to a cooked ROM and in the beginning of these efforts I tried out the search term "best HD2 ROM". The threads that resulted were obviously very short and the authors told off for being lazy and discrediting the great works of all the chefs here. But the very good point is made that there are ALOT of ROM's for the HD2, and whilst it may only take 5 mnins to flash a ROM it takes hours, if not days, to find out if it suited to you. With the risk of losing personal info on each flash and having to reconfigure your apps each time this can be a very tedious process.
I'm basically wondering if there is any way to have a thread that can provide a way of rating the advantages and disadvantages of each ROM without having to wade through topics with hundreds of pages of mostly useless posts. It just so daunting with all these ROM's that many people may never even start.
I am just now thinking of flexing my (somewhat out of date) webmastering ability to create a "ROM Review" website - good idea?
What are people's thoughts?
p.s. This is probably also in the wrong section of the forum... just clicked "new topic" where I was browsing without thinking where it should go, please move if appropriate, thanks.
I completely agree with your idea to open this thread.
Finally we have someone who wants to put it to rights. Because every day we have new ROM or several ROM's, and every time flashing and soft re-installation takes a lot of time... and after all that you understand that "this ROM is not really what you wanted to be"...
Go on with your idea.. and I think - this section is the right place for your thread.
you got my vote
Good to see I'm not alone here, any feedback is much appriciated, even if its just a +1
Agreed, Sir.
This was taken from another thread about a similar question
"I also see no point to a list of pro's or cons of any particular ROM as most are built for the same thing, speed and stability. The only real differences you are going to see are what programs the person has loaded."
If this is indeed the case. then a list of the roms with the space taken up by the rom on the phone. the apps installed and how quick, stable each one would be must surely be a good idea?
I truly hope you can follow through with your idea.
I think there is no such thing as "the" best ROM.
Each user has different preferences, especially WinMo smartphones are
rarely one the same like another: Included software, tweaks, mods, themes, designs.
The possibilities are endless.
Also, an earlier thread here at the HD2 forum about speed (with benchmarks
as neutral as possible) ended up in unfriendly discussions (which is a mild
term to describe what happened).
An HD2 is so extremely fast that I seriously doubt that the "average" user
can tell a big difference between different ROMs. Sometimes, a buggy ROM
may be obviously slower, but in the average case, the difference will just
not really be felt, but only perceived, sometimes only imagined.
I think that it is part of this forum that there is no rating of the available
ROMs. If you watch the forum, you can easily find out which ROMs seem to
have more acceptance and therefore more fans - and if you check the ROM
description and screenshots of the chef, you can easily find out if the ROM
is something you might like.
Just to finish: How exactly does a ROM qualify as "the best"? Speed? Come
on... Software which comes with it? Come on, again...
Imho, it all ends up in optical mods and tweaks plus some extremely basic
software which is really a must for everybody. If you would ask me what
this could be, I cannot give you any name because WinMo and Manila are
on most ROMs anyway...
I couldn't agree more Mega. Very brave of you to start this thread ; )
I was a bit of a flashaholic with both my Elf and my Raphael, but I still haven't flashed anything to my Leo because it's so hard to figure out exactly what I'm going to get. Apart from the features of each ROM, it's hard to get an idea of the things that might be missing from each. Like, have the original bugs been fixed? Stuff like the audio booster turning off, AAC files being mis-sorted in the audio player, volume keys still active when the screen is off and incremental volume control or even the relative volume between headphones and phone speaker. I just can't be bothered to start flashing a million ROMs to find out. That's not laziness by the way, honest! I'm sure I'll get over it and start flashing soon ; )
tictac0566 said:
I think there is no such thing as "the" best ROM.
Each user has different preferences, especially WinMo smartphones are
rarely one the same like another: Included software, tweaks, mods, themes, designs.
The possibilities are endless.
Also, an earlier thread here at the HD2 forum about speed (with benchmarks
as neutral as possible) ended up in unfriendly discussions (which is a mild
term to describe what happened).
An HD2 is so extremely fast that I seriously doubt that the "average" user
can tell a big difference between different ROMs. Sometimes, a buggy ROM
may be obviously slower, but in the average case, the difference will just
not really be felt, but only perceived, sometimes only imagined.
I think that it is part of this forum that there is no rating of the available
ROMs. If you watch the forum, you can easily find out which ROMs seem to
have more acceptance and therefore more fans - and if you check the ROM
description and screenshots of the chef, you can easily find out if the ROM
is something you might like.
Just to finish: How exactly does a ROM qualify as "the best"? Speed? Come
on... Software which comes with it? Come on, again...
Imho, it all ends up in optical mods and tweaks plus some extremely basic
software which is really a must for everybody. If you would ask me what
this could be, I cannot give you any name because WinMo and Manila are
on most ROMs anyway...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, how would one rate the BEST? Well to be honest you cant really as each person has there own needs and wants in a rom. What might be an Ideal rom for me might not be the best rom for you. I could rate a rom at 10 and you might give it a 2, then it turns into a bashing session and that can not be allowed. The rating system has been brought up many times before and each time it comes to the same end. There will never be an accurate way to tell the best rom. I am not trying to be harsh here but threads like this are beating a dead horse.
After speaking with the OP I have decided to reopen this thread. On the condition that this is "NOT" a best rom thread. This thread will be to help those that are new to ROM flashing. I will be keeping an eye on this thread and if it turn into a Best rom or bashing thread I will reclose it for good. I understand that sense the release of the HD 2 that alot of people are new to WM and with the available options in the rom thread it can be confusing. I am also moving this thread to the General Section as it is not Rom development. To all the new guys welcome.
Just wanna say thanks to Zelendal, the topic title originally wasn't constructive.
As we all know from doing a little reading about the ROM's, each one can be individually suited to different people, it like argument about which is the best smart phone or computer platform. So the kind of discussionj I was trying to provoke was about the best way to help out newcomers decide which ROM would indeed be best suited to them.
As I posted before I have been pondering making a seperate website that would allow some organisation of peoples opinions on the ROM's and I am interested as to how much support there would be amongst the community, I am also interested as to how the Cook's themselves would see such an project, providing it was done right.
sike222 said:
This was taken from another thread about a similar question
"I also see no point to a list of pro's or cons of any particular ROM as most are built for the same thing, speed and stability. The only real differences you are going to see are what programs the person has loaded."
If this is indeed the case. then a list of the roms with the space taken up by the rom on the phone. the apps installed and how quick, stable each one would be must surely be a good idea?
I truly hope you can follow through with your idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You quote me but you leave out an important part. The problem with making a list is that ROMs change. What might have been an issue in one build might be working just fine in the next. Keeping up with these changes and trying to keep on top of a list would be a nightmare. Also this mystical list you are looking for is usually on one of the first few post of every ROM thread. Most good cooks will list all these things that you are looking for. Only way to tell if a ROM will fit your needs is to try it. Every bodies idea of a good ROM is different. What one person might see as a con another sees as a pro. Personal opinion is a ***** and unfortunately everybody has a different one.
Good luck but I don't see a list being started or maintained for very long. Nor do I see this thread going anywhere productive.
Will Badger -
I don't think anyone is dis-agreeing that each ROM is suited individually to different people. Each cook makes his ROM how he wants it and if you share those wants with that cook you a likly to enjoy his ROM. That doesn't make it any easier to find what ROM is indeed suited to you, and as a newbe it can be extremely daunting, there are 30 odd cooks for the HD2, thats ALOT of time spent flashing and tring out ROM's.
Having said that I have been pointed towards
http://www.xdaroms.com/Default.aspx
Which is more or less everything I had in mind for a ROM information site, so its safe to say I wont be needing to build another. Iv'e been on this forum for a few months now and have not seen this site, somthing like this would need the direct support of Cooks asking people to visit in their ROM threads to submit reviews of their ROM.
Personally if that could happen I think it would be great and a fantastic resourse for newbes but I know there are alot of differing opinions on here, and perhaps its somthing the chefs would have second thoughts about.
Cool nice to know you found what you were looking for. I still find it easier to just read the actual thread for the info I'm looking for. Going over that page quickly I see no information stating whether the any of the HD2 ROMs are T-mobile compatible. You can flash a standard HD2 ROM onto the newer T-Mo HD2 since they use different processor.
i hadn't come across that site either, lol... but looking at this thread i think the guy's pretty keen to make the site useful. see here - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=658641
there's also another thread in the ROM section that might be helpful... i'm sure jaimeeee would appreciate any input and help you wanna give
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=683743
Hi,
Thanks for the extra info, whilst the site I posted does seem to be more or less what I was thinking of doing myself it simply doesnt have the activity require to truely make it useful to anyone. It needs the support of the Forum, especially the Cooks if its going to succeed. I keep meaning to conatct the owner of th site to discuss how to push traffic onto the site but I got all caught up making a skin recently.
Hopefully we can make somthing of this!
I thought that this section was unique crap for Galaxy S2. Looks like we will have same **** soon.
anonymous572 said:
I thought that this section was unique crap for Galaxy S2. Looks like we will have same **** soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
huh?
im yet to see what this section is for too
panyan said:
im yet to see what this section is for too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea ive seen it on other sections before, But I dont fully understand it
What the hell is 'original development' ??
What is the current development ? Un original ?
whats with the need to add un-necessary sub sections ? It just fuels confusion
Maybe "original" means "real". So there will be a chance to distinguish between cloning/adding/tweaking from development
Do we need / want it ?? I think we should open up a poll and pass the results on to the mod(s)
We had a similar thing in the HTC One S forums, Where they added a subsection for Tmobile Versions, It was totally un-needed as there were no differences between the 2 devices. We made a poll and the section got removed.
Sometimes these things do more bad than good, As if the flashing procedure isnt difficult enough already, What with the brickbug and all that.
If you think its a good idea to remove it, Ill open a poll before the section gets full with stuff.
Why not wait a little bit and see what it should be used for?
One Mod will explain sooner or later...
lets just hope its something useful
Is it so hard to understand? All stuff about original roms goes in there.
What do you mean Original ROMs ? Things like Stock TW ROMs ? Or does that include Custom ROMs too ?
Only in the SGS2 threads the 'original' section is full of custom ROMs and kernels too.
I mean this device is almost 12months old, We've survived without it.
Im just old fashioned Change freaks me out
Confusing?
Hate It?
Simply Don't Open It
anonymous572 said:
I thought that this section was unique crap for Galaxy S2. Looks like we will have same **** soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wish you could enlighten us on how it was a unique crap and a **** for s2 then?
original = stock = cooked roms
the other thread will be for "really" developed roms i.e, aokp/aosp/cm9 variants
So if some one builds a ROM based on Cynogen Mod from scratch..will it be in original section or since its from CM it will be in Development
btw this was the rule posted there
The following are most likely “Original Development”:
Official releases of highly original and upstream custom ROMs (built from the ground up with significant original development within them
Official releases/development of such original ROMs, perhaps posted by the maintainer or their nominated person.
A significant “first” in development for a device. Significant is subjective, but it is likely something which took considerable time/effort, and is generally accepted by developers to be significant and non-trivial.
Kernels which are built with beneficial changes that are not simply pulled from other kernels already available. Some element of original work is expected.
Tools and utilities with a clear purpose, and which are well-made, and useful to users. They should have an element of originality, either in purpose or through significant improvement in the means of operation.
Significant port of a ROM from one device to another, giving enhanced features or functionality to users of the target device. The port should be beneficial (a port from two virtually identical devices isn’t original development, it’s winzipping, and nobody really benefits from this, as it’s not development)
The following are most likely not “Original Development”, and should be posted in the “Android Development” subforum:
Your own “unofficial” stock build of your favourite original, source-built (or otherwise) ROM, particularly where an official or maintainer-endorsed thread exists already.
Minor derivatives of other ROMs with little or no changes, or ROMs consisting of “placebo” features as a main constituent or claim.
Renames or rebadges of others’ work – these don’t belong on XDA at all! Refer to rule 12 for more information.
Reposts of existing ROMs with small changes (i.e. kitchen work, such as adding a couple of apps). If you could realistically distribute your changes as an “addon pack” above and beyond a ROM, you should do so. In addition, your “ROM” would not be original development as it would be substantially identical to the original ROM.
A thread created with unrealistic goals that are clearly unachievable by those starting the thread. This is not intended to discourage high aspirations, rather to prevent threads porting Windows Phone 8 to the HTC Wallaby. This is pretty much common sense.
A ROM where a main or significant claim/feature is graphical changes to the user interface (ie. Themed ROM)
i get the idea to separate the genuine development from the WinZip one, but it may not be that easy in practice to distinguish those lying somewhere in between
See Here
XDA, the moderators and the powers that be.... have been wrestling with trying to differentiate the Difference between the Code-writing Development and the Quasi-developers that use rom cooking tools.
To that end we will be going through the development threads in the next couple of weeks and moving the appropriate threads that meet the original code requirement to be placed in this new forum.
Please bear in mind that this is a "Work in Progress" and will take a bit of time to hone and perfect what goes where.
Also, please understand that this does not mean that some developers are on some special pedestal. That is not the case.
I will use an analogy to explain:
A music composer writes an original piece of music. The music composition may be awesome... but his performance of it, may not.
Such often is the case in developers..... often someone comes up with a awesome idea or new code application, but it often ends up being perfected by the use of others putting their creative spin on it.
That is the beauty of The Android Platform and ....XDA provides a fertile field for all to share ideas and collectively improve our experience
I hope this clarifys the potential questions
Thanks from the Moderators
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the end of the day everything is built from something else but what they are getting at is ROMs that are just other roms with maybe a new theme and tweaks taken from else where would just be in the normal development.
But if you came up with something new and different (not just a rehash of other peoples work) then it should go in original development
Now its starting to make sense, well ive always reverted to one particular rom (cleanote) so i guess i wont be affected.
maybe its for the best, there are a lot of similar roms out there so it might make life easier.
Im still adapting to the new xda theme, any more change after this and i might self destruct.
Want me to start a poll?
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA Premium App
azzledazzle said:
Now its starting to make sense, well ive always reverted to one particular rom (cleanote) so i guess i wont be affected.
maybe its for the best, there are a lot of similar roms out there so it might make life easier.
Im still adapting to the new xda theme, any more change after this and i might self destruct.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sahilarora2003 said:
Want me to start a poll?
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It makes alot of sense, will make it easy to find new and 'bigger' development work against the small tweaked roms which while important are starting to fill up the forum
It was tested in the S2 forums and has been rolling out XDA wide so theres not alot a poll will do, in honour of the hitch hikers guide of the galaxy, the plans have been on show for quite some time, if you can’t be bothered to take an interest in local affairs, that’s your own lookout.