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I signed up for the T-Mobile USA internet (GPRS) few days ago.
I could establish the connection using my Universal.
I could browse most web sites, and could download emails from my company exchange server and Hotmail.
Only one strange thing, i could never download emails from Gmail. It will go to the login process, and when it reaches the Sending and Receiving... it will go forever.
I also noticed that I could not browse any google.com web sites including www.google.com, mail.google.com, news.google.com etc..
I tried to get T-Mboile technical support help but it has been useless and helpless. Somebody told me that it might be something to do with the MTU size that the T-Mobile network can pass along today.
If I swicth over the connection to Wifi or dial up via GSM, I can reach everything including Gmail and Google web sites just fine, from the same device (Universal).
Any one, that uses T-Mobile USA GPRS as well, can you please help?
Thanks.
hey I have t-mobile usa also but with the PDA2K (BlueAngel) when I was running WM5.0 and now back to 2003se I had no problems connecting to google.com/pda but I do know that their is a registry hack to make it go to the default google.com but I wouldn't advise it, becuase it interfeirs with other web sites.
Also T-Mobile has 2 data plans WAP and Total Internet the wap is limited to wap sites and such but the other is open to all sites, check your settings to make sure you are connecting to GPRS and not WAP.....
The difference is like 20 or 30 a month though
WAP 19.99 or 9.99
GPRS 29.99 and up for MyMail or VPN MyMail
I have the full GPRS (the new name: Total Internet for $30). Now its bundled with the hotspot and they are not longer offering the $20 for GPRS only.
Can you tell me what access point you set in your device? Mine is set to wap.voicestream.com and use no proxy. i noticed some ppl posted before that they proxy instead.
Thanks.
your connection is incorrect if you notice it is set to wap. even though you have the total internet that is only connecting you to the wap
your access point should be
internet2.voicestream.com or
internet3.voicestream.com
I used 3 on WM5 and it was fine I also use 3 on wm2003se
negative. I could connect to internet2.voicestream.com but not internet3.voicestream.com
internet2.voicestream.com gives me exactly same result.
I can connect to any websites but not google.com with both wap.voicestream.com as well as internet2.voicestream.com
very strange. anybody in Texas particularly has same issue?
I'm out of Massachusetts, but was in Dallas a few days ago and had no problem connecting to Google. I use internet2.voicestream.com
This issue has been driving me nuts for 6 months. I've been trying to nail down the problem, I'm wondering if it's a regional setting with T-mobile's servers or incorrect account set ups. Some people with other Universals and Wizards in other area's claim they do not have this problem.
Here's a general thread on Ho-fo that's been getting some hits, when I posted about it here on XDA forums there wasn't much response.
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=605044
I actually have a couple friends how work for T-mob that thought the problem was with my JasJar until they got ahold of the MDA and discovered the exact same problem.
I've emailed google, just got a response saying they would forward the concern to their tech's. Please share any info or response you get so we can try to get this resolved!!
I've actually had the same problem and I'm on Cincinnati Bell (which is also Cingular & AT&T). I used to be able to connect with no problem on my PDA2k but with the Universal I can't connect. Actually, I've been able to hit the www.google.com/pda site and type in a search but then it just sits & spins forever.
I have the same problem with my MDA from T-mobile. It only happens sometimes. It always connect to google and m.gmail when using wi-fi, but is very hit or miss when connected over GPRS.
Thats the least of my problems however, as I am constantly getting dropped from the GPRS data network even with full coverage, and I'm in the NYC area. I have alerted T-mobile to both problems and am considering turning in my device since i still have a week to do so not because of the device but because of the connection issues with the network.
This has been a bit of a nightmare when it comes to email, because I came from using a blackberry where all my accounts were instantly pushed, to this now when sometime i get email, sometimes not, my Gmail doesnt work properly, and it can take a half an hour for the email to finally reach me.
No problems here
I have no problems connecting to Google.com from my Blue Angel, or from my friend's Wizard. I'm still waiting for my Universal.
I don't have Total Internet Plan, though. I just have the T-Zones hack: In Settings/Connections/Connections, go to "Edit my proxy server" and select "Advanced". HTTP server should be set to 216.155.165.50:8080. Any other HTTP settings should be cleared.
I've noticed in the past two days, however, that Google seems to have changed what it considers a "mobile device", based on the client's User-Agent string. It goes to www.google.com/xhtml if it detects a mobile device. Previously it went to www.google.com/pda , but for a smaller number of devices. Google's "mobile" page has fewer links on it, and is not as useful as the main page.
I use NetFront 3.2, which allows me to change the User-Agent string to make it look like a desktop browser. Today I changed it to:
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; en) Opera 8.51
I also changed the language/platform to en/x86.
This seems to make Google go back to the normal page.
But no connectivity problems are happening with GPRS. I can search Google, browse results, search newsgroups, search News, etc.
There was an T-mobile outage reported in California last week (search HowardForums). Perhaps this is related (routing issues?).
PS: It seems to depend on the User-Agent, whether www.google.com/pda or www.google.com/xhtml is used. If I run Pocket Internet Explorer, it still goes to /pda (searches work fine). If I run NetFront with factory settings, it goes to /xhtml. If I run Opera, or change Netfront as above, then it goes to the Google main page. In no cases does it have problems connecting. Response is a little faster on the main page, though, which would seem to indicate that Google Mobile does something which is slower.
[rant]
Google saying that they "don't support T-Mobile devices with Google Mobile" is like saying "best viewed with xxx browser". The phone provider should have no effect on the usability. Nor should Google have to go out of their way to provide a different experience for Mobile users, or to second-guess their needs based on a User-Agent string -- anyone with any browser should be able to use Google, and nothing special should be done for mobile.
I say disable Google Mobile, by changing the User-Agent.
[/rant]
I have a T-Mobile MDA with the Total Internet plan and Google works fine for me.
Thanks for feedback folks. This isn't a new issue, I've had this problem for 6 months. I currently have my user agent set to IE 5.5/NT so that I can access my bank web page, I've tried several combinations of user-agent settings with no luck, can you explain the exact changes I'd need to make to try your current setting?
Also, I'm hoping that when Netfront releases a WM5 compatible version I can run through a proxy server (which I've also heard solves the problem).
This is with Blue Angel (SX66), WM2003, T-Mobile T-Zones proxy, NetFront 3.2, so your mileage may vary. I will be getting an O2 Exec any day now.
Tools/Browser Setting/Misc/User Agent/Edit
Title: (anything you want to call it)
User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; en) Opera 8.51
appName: (blank)
appVersion: (blank)
appCodeName: (blank)
language/platform: en / x86
Tools/Browser Setting/Network/Proxy (T-Zones only, not Total Internet)
Use Proxy: (checked)
Proxy (hostort) 216.155.165.50:8080
Note that NetFront 3.3 is coming out soon. I'm sure it will support WM5.0, but right now Access says "(* Its verification is not completed.)"
Have you tried Opera? It works with T-Zones proxy, at least in WM2003, if you set the proxy in the GPRS Connection Settings.
It might be worth trying the T-Zones hack. Go to My T-Mobile, log in, and then go to this T-Zones page (if that does not work, go to "Plan&Services, Learn About Services, Communication, T-Zones"). Add T-Zones (aka T-MobileWeb) to your plan. Then you should be able to use the proxy as described above. You can remove it later if you don't want to pay the $6/month extra. Some people have even reported being able to add it and remove it immediately, but keep the services.
I tested to connect to the internet via T-Mobile GPRS with my universal as a USB modem hooked up to my laptop.
And it gives a totally different behaviour compared when used directly from the Universal (with pocket IE and Mail application).
Besides a decent speed, I could browse to google, perform search etc, everything seems to work perfectly (from my laptop, Universal as a USB modem). When I browse the same thing again from the Universal, same problem occured again, never get any search result back from google, and GMail will stuck in the step "Sending and Receiving..." which will go forever until it times out.
I also tested with my Wallaby the same thing to make sure its not the device problem, and it turned out the same problem exists also.
I really could not pin point where the problem is. Please help to think, folks. Its not the device problem? Is it T-Mobile GPRS network problem? Or what?
Are there packet sniffers for PPC? Something like tcpdump, traceroute, ping? That would be my next step. See where it's hung up.
There are some PPC tools for that stuff, I played with an app called TCPTune (I think) but couldn't accomplish anything, I'm totally ignorant of the network stuff.
Re: No problems here
leek said:
In Settings/Connections/Connections, go to "Edit my proxy server" and select "Advanced". HTTP server should be set to 216.155.165.50:8080. Any other HTTP settings should be cleared.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holly crap I made this change (still with full Tmob internet plan) and a few registry edits based on your Netfront settings (probably butchered my registry) and manually forced a connection via my WAP settings and THEN LOADED GOOGLE OVER GPRS!! FULL HTML GOOGLE, NEWS GMAIL, IMAGES, ON MY JASJAR VIA GPRS OMG!! I'm really feeling very strong emotional feelings of like towards you right now Leek! :lol:
I'm having some trouble with google local not returning results (starts to load a page with a text box and then stops), not sure why but I suspect it's a problem with my hacked up user agent registry settings.
So, here's my question - I really don't mind paying the full $20 for regular GPRS (and wouldn't want to worry about full access via the $4.99 tzones going away), how do I either make this work using my regular GPRS settings (so I don't have to use an alternate connection) or how do I get the WAP settings to work as my primary settings for all programs? I was able to update my feeds and load images over this WAP settings just fine, but when I tried to check my email or load Agile messenger it tried to load my regular GPRS settings.
In order to figure out exactly which change made this work I went back and reset my PPC to a backup from last night. The only registry edits I have now are my old ones that made PIE show the version as "MSIE 5.5" & the platform as "Windows NT 5.0". Other than the changes below, I'm using the T-mobile CAB settings from i-mate.
I went into settings > connections > and below My Work Network I went to Manage existing settings and then clicked on the Proxy Settings Tab. The two check boxes were already checked but the proxy server was blank so I entered the 216.155.165.50 and then click on advanced. and it then showed that server under Type HTTP but the port was 80 not 8080, I then clicked on the HTTP server and edited the port to 8080 and then hit ok. I left all the other servers that were listed as is.
From the main Connections > Settings screen I then clicked on manage existing connections, it brought up the T-mobile WAP connection and then I click-held on that and selected connect. I then loaded PIE, navigated to Google and grinned as it loaded everything.
Under this connection type most other web pages I've been trying work fine, although some (like howard forums and search.yahoo.com) don't work. *edit hofo might be down right now*
The problem I was having initally with Google local (via web, haven't tried the local java app) is resolved and it now loads fine, as I suspected it must have been my hacked up user agent registry settings. I'm now also able to check and send POP email with this WAP connection, Agile Messenger connects to the servers.
Big thanks to leek for posting this fix here, now how can I make this my default connection and should I try to downsize my account to just the $5 tzones account?
found how to make it the default connection method (connections > settings > advanced > select networks > and then set the top drop down to "my work network".
Leek, buddy, I owe you a case of beer... This had been driving me nuts for 6 months, you solved it!!!
hi galt and leek,
I'm so excited to read that you guys succesfully solved this.
i could not try it out anymore, I changed my T-Mobile plan yesterday, I removed my total internet plan as I don't want to pay $30 per month without even able to access my primary email account: Gmail and google around.
SO, can you give summary again how to make this works?
I assume no extra application to install beside all standard application built in WM5.
Pls clarify:
1. Get T-MobileWeb /t-zones plan ($5.99)
2. set the proxy setting for HTTP with the port 8080 and left others empty (including the SOCKS, WAP)
3. Use the APN: wap.voicestream.com
Do I miss anything? Any reqistry setting I have to make?
That's it? And you can have full access to the internet? Can you clarify if Gmail is working via POP3?
I tried the proxy setting when I still had my total Internet plan but it did not work out. :`(
Hi All,
Today I went to my local 3 store to test my O2 Xda Exec/Jasjar (universal) with a 3 simcard. This is what I discovered.
The 3services settings allows you only to access planet3. 3netaccess Settings is to be able to surf the net on your phone. You will have to manually switch beween the settings depending on what you want to do.
Question to you all out there...... has anybody worked out how to get video streaming with 3 ? When it came to accessing Mobile TV, I could not get it to work, I got a message "your device is not supported for this service". This was the case for all video streaming on planet3. I was only able to view text stuff.
My initial thought about it is that there are file format issues, remebering that 3 offer no phones which are windows based? I am thinking to try it again using pocketTV software. I use this at the moment instead of crappy windows media player.
So has anybody resolved the streaming issue?
Must be @ least 1 aussie using 3 network here?
Must be @ least 1 aussie using 3 network here?
guinevere,
I am using Three Australia as well and like yourself would like to be able to view Three content. I have posted on several forums and the only thing constructive I have found out is apparently a certificate is required on the device to access Three video content. I have also been told that Three are planning on releasing a WM based device in the near future which may help our cause. Any information you could find would be great news to a lot of people who use Three in Australia.
Hi Shane, great to hear from you.
Thats interesting I have not heard that yet, but it hmakes sense. I Dont have a 3 sim yet, still in research stage, thinking of getting one anyway till I fnd a better option.
Perhaps we could use this thread to collect info for Universal use with australian networks as there is not much happening at the aussie3g forum for us.
Do you have any info about using universal on optus, vodaphone or telstra, I have not tested there sims yet.
Also shane, have you got MMS working?
Guinevere,
I don't use MMS so I can't comment on whether it works or not, but a lot of people seem to be posting that it has issues. An interesting sideline I was told by my Corporate Rep from Three is that a senior Three official in Australia has taken a shine to the Universal and is using it rather than a Three handset - so maybe some development might soon follow!
Like yourself, Three support don't want to know anything as soon as they hear that we are not using a Three handset.
I think it's a great idea to use this forum as a meeting place for Aussie Three users with WM devices.
None of my colleagues or customers at present have gone 3G but I have a customer who is looking to join the Telstra network. The customer has been told that Video content will work OK on the Jasjar from Telstra. (As yet the device has not been approved officially for use on the Telstra network -unbelievable I know!).
I will post updates once I find out anything new.
Shane
:idea:
Hi shane any news?
I have since got myself a 3 sim.....so far i am enjoyin it, just using it for basic things like reading tex news and other text stuff offered on planet3, also its good now with there My3 section where you can view your usage. I know also use it to check my pop3 email for when I am not in the office.
the only things still not functioning is the MMS and video streaming....which I have made up by converting all my favorite film clips and movies into divx's to play on my Exec
Thus far MMS and Video Streaming does not work on XDA Exec. Which is kind of silly since our phones are like 6 billion times better than what is in those 3 shops. :wink:
3 network three australia
We have tranfered this discussion to this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=51646
Please join us
Telstra MMS Settings
I know this is an old thread, but some people may still be after the Telstra MMS Configuration for the Universal.
Under Connections, you need to rename "My Work" Network as Telstra MMS, and set up a new modem connection:
Enter Name of Connection as "Telstra.MMS" and select Cellular Line (GPRS,3G) for the modem. The access point is "telstra.mms.mnc001.mcc505.gprs". Leave username etc blank.
Next, open your inbox (messaging) and click on Menu/Tools/Options. Click on MMS to retrieve the MMS Configuration. On the preferences tab check "Retrieve Messages Immediately", "OK to download when roaming", and "Save sent messages" as you prefer with all other boxes blank.
Click the "Servers" tab. If you don't have Telstra there already, click on New. The Server Name should be Telstra, the Gateway is 10.1.1.155, and the port number 9201. Enter the server address as "http://mmsc.telstra.com:8002", and select "Telstra MMS" under Connect Via. Click OK until you are back to the Today Screen.
That works for my Jasjar on Telstra. Hope this helps somebody.
What is the difference is anyone of them better then the other or what is the deal. I have the pda unlimited plan which setting should i use?
An oft asked question (by me, in fact) ... and after much research, it is not clear (to me) that there is one correct response. General consensus seems to be that if the wap.cingular settings work for you, use them and don't worry about it (but you may want to not use "medianet" settings, since those have proxy settings associated with them, and the proxy settings can cause heartburn trying to use wifi and some sites).
Beyond that, purportedly there are some sites that may only work with the isp.cingular setting instead of the wap.cingular setting, but I have not found them (except, at times, the yahoo mail beta site). After much deliberation on the issue, I just use wap.cingular (with no proxy settings) and it works great, and fast.
For some old discussions on the subject, check out these threads:
-- on the cingular forums
-- on these forums
I had great luck on the mediamax plan using wap.cingular without the proxy. I did however find one exception that forced me to switch to isp.cingular and the higher cost unlimited pda connect plan. outlook web access using the html browser did not work well for me with wap.cingular, with or without the proxy. it would log me out every few minutes and I would have to log in again. it seemed to have something to do with network address translation and switching between two towers. not sure, but it is much better using isp.cingular.
this was the only exception I found.
It's all very cloak and dagger isn't it? Gotta love the phone companies: they'll do anything to not give you what you want.
Here's the deal: wap.cingulargprs.com uses a shared address with NAT; isp.cingulargrps.com assigns a public IP. Neither of these plans support inbound Internet traffic to the client (that is, they don't support push). For that you will need an unlimited PDA data plan, convince someone to add a certain feature code to your plan. and then configure the "internet" apn. The downside with going that route is that your PDA is now subject to all of the security risks that any computer with a public Internet address would be at risk for.
I bought a sim-free htc touch hd a few weeks ago, bought an o2 pay&go sim, added the unlimited web blot-on, and thought everything would be just fine. But I was wrong.
It worked fine on the small number of occasions I used it before yesterday.
Since I added the web bolt-on, the automatic connection settings no longer work and I get the following message every time I try to set up the data connection:
Dialed:
Cannot connect for an unknown reason. To check your connection settings and change them if needed, tap Settings. If the problem continues, reset your mobile device according to your manufacturer's documentation and try again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Other than trying the automatic connection setup feature a few times, I've also tried manual settings. Currently my settings are as follows:
Modem selected: Cellular Line (GPRS, 3G)
Access point name: mobile.o2.co.uk
User name: O2web
Password: some 16 digit long network automatic password
Domain: no value entered
Advanced settings:
TCP/IP: Use server-assigned IP address
Servers: Use server-assigned addresses
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've tried using a different username and password, same the ones listed on most setup guides.
I've tried entering a manual DNS, and Alt DNS server address under advanced settings.
I've tried setting up the connection from scratch.
And I've tried doing a soft reset followed by restoring it to factory settings.
Currently I am using ROM version 1.14.4005.3, and have nothing else installed on the device. I do not currently have access to anything other than a mac, so cannot use any windows-related troubleshooting devices.
Absolutely anything you could suggest would be great. Rang o2, but they were unhelpful. Thanks chaps.
iamelegy said:
I bought a sim-free htc touch hd a few weeks ago, bought an o2 pay&go sim, added the unlimited web blot-on, and thought everything would be just fine. But I was wrong.
It worked fine on the small number of occasions I used it before yesterday.
Since I added the web bolt-on, the automatic connection settings no longer work and I get the following message every time I try to set up the data connection:
Other than trying the automatic connection setup feature a few times, I've also tried manual settings. Currently my settings are as follows:
I've tried using a different username and password, same the ones listed on most setup guides.
I've tried entering a manual DNS, and Alt DNS server address under advanced settings.
I've tried setting up the connection from scratch.
And I've tried doing a soft reset followed by restoring it to factory settings.
Currently I am using ROM version 1.14.4005.3, and have nothing else installed on the device. I do not currently have access to anything other than a mac, so cannot use any windows-related troubleshooting devices.
Absolutely anything you could suggest would be great. Rang o2, but they were unhelpful. Thanks chaps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those are the O2 contract settings. PAYG settings are different and one will not work with the others' settings. You'll have to scoure the O2 website to find the manual settings for PAYG (or PAG as O2 calls it).
A word of warning, however, after just coming off P&G and onto contract, and thus knowing the limitations of both, your mobile web with P&G will be severely crippled.
Unless O2 have changed their settings on the server side, the only web program that will work will be Opera. Email client and youtube won't work as P&G is limited to port 8080 (HTML) only...
This is something that really annoyed me when I was with P&G because I couldn't use my mobile's email client because it just could not connect.
sorry, rant/warning over! Summary: you need P&G specific settings, you can find them (eventually) on the O2 website - keep trying makes and models until you find one that gives you the manual settings (I can't give more help than this as I had to do the exact same thing myself!). HTC auto-connect wizard only has contract settings in it. Also be warned that potentially only Opera will work once you get the settings!
chaosdefinesorder said:
Those are the O2 contract settings. PAYG settings are different and one will not work with the others' settings. You'll have to scoure the O2 website to find the manual settings for PAYG (or PAG as O2 calls it).
A word of warning, however, after just coming off P&G and onto contract, and thus knowing the limitations of both, your mobile web with P&G will be severely crippled.
Unless O2 have changed their settings on the server side, the only web program that will work will be Opera. Email client and youtube won't work as P&G is limited to port 8080 (HTML) only...
This is something that really annoyed me when I was with P&G because I couldn't use my mobile's email client because it just could not connect.
sorry, rant/warning over! Summary: you need P&G specific settings, you can find them (eventually) on the O2 website - keep trying makes and models until you find one that gives you the manual settings (I can't give more help than this as I had to do the exact same thing myself!). HTC auto-connect wizard only has contract settings in it. Also be warned that potentially only Opera will work once you get the settings!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you so much. I may love you. In a non-gay way. Anywho, I've found out how to do it. It's extremely simple now that you've pointed me toward the problem.
Go to Settings > Connections > Manage existing connections
Then under the 'Modem' tab, edit your connection.
All you have to do is change the access point name from 'mobileweb.o2.co.uk' to 'payango.o2.co.uk'.
Very simple.
And thanks for the warning about the limitations. I might take that up with them, since it is not mentioned when purchasing the web upgrade or sim. I'll test it out first though.
iamelegy said:
Thank you so much. I may love you. In a non-gay way. Anywho, I've found out how to do it. It's extremely simple now that you've pointed me toward the problem.
Go to Settings > Connections > Manage existing connections
Then under the 'Modem' tab, edit your connection.
All you have to do is change the access point name from 'mobileweb.o2.co.uk' to 'payango.o2.co.uk'.
Very simple.
And thanks for the warning about the limitations. I might take that up with them, since it is not mentioned when purchasing the web upgrade or sim. I'll test it out first though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a general thing with PAYG really, telcos want you to have contracts - make more money from you that way! all PAYG SIMs go through proxies for mobile web connections, and almost all the PAYG proxies are limited to 8080 only.
Then again, it sounds like you didn't use the proxy settings so we'll see what happens w.r.t non html usage!
When you get a chance, could you please have a play with trying to use Gmail on IMAP and/or the YouTube and/or weather panel and report back whether it works or gets timed out? I'd really like to see how you get on!
As I already have many phone contracts in the family (that I'm paying for ), I got one of those o2 simplicity 30 day rolling contract things, the cheapest one for £10, then added £7.50 web bolt on, that lets you do whatever you like (you tube, mail etc all works fine), I thinks its also 150mins and 300txts.
Tmob do one as well that I think £20 for more mins, Unlimited txts and free web (special offer at the moment). It is a better deal than the o2 for only £2.50 more, but I have better o2 reception where I am, and also they use the Edge network.
chaosdefinesorder said:
When you get a chance, could you please have a play with trying to use Gmail on IMAP and/or the YouTube and/or weather panel and report back whether it works or gets timed out? I'd really like to see how you get on!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, I've played about with these a bit, and they seem to be working fine. Weather works perfectly, as does my Gmail account on IMAP.
The youtube application is extremely slow, but I'm assuming that is more general, than a specific PAYG problem.
As I already have many phone contracts in the family (that I'm paying for ), I got one of those o2 simplicity 30 day rolling contract things, the cheapest one for £10, then added £7.50 web bolt on, that lets you do whatever you like (you tube, mail etc all works fine), I thinks its also 150mins and 300txts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got their 'Your Country' SIM pack, which is purely top-up, but they deduct the 7.50 form my credit each month. It's great for me, since you get free minutes for calls to overseas whenever you top-up - damn useful for an Irishman.
Can't afford 20 pound every single month unfortunately. Student life (ignoring the fact that I managed to get a HD).
Thanks again chaps.
Hello everyone,
First off, I apologize if this is the wrong type of question, but you are the only community I know that has the knowledge of the technical details am I looking for. I have asked this in several communities but failed to deliver a proper question and get a proper response. In any case, if you are about to delete this post, please direct me to a more appropriate community.
Here is my train of thought, I hope you can follow:
So, I have this presentation about the Wireless Application Protocol (WAP) which I am having a hard time finding any recent news. All I can find is old articles about WML 2.1 and new phones that support WAP.
The more I search the more I start thinking that WAP is a thing of the past. But the problem is that I am not sure if this is correct. If it is dying, what is replacing it?
The WAP is a stack of 5 protocols. The top one is the application layer which includes the WML language. Under WAP are the various wireless interfaces (CDMA, EDGE, etc). WAP browsers send requests to WAP gateways in order to view a website which is written in (or translated to) WML. So far, so good.
What about Opera Mini??? This a browser designed for mobile phones that is capable of reading HTML (to a degree). How does Opera Mini access the internet? My guess is that it is not using WAP, but the standard TCP/IP stack. Can a cell phone (not a smart phone) use the TCP/IP stack? Is it powerful enough? What about Mobile IP? Is it TCP/Mobile IP?
I know that WAP is still in use. Motorola recently announced a series of low budget cell phones that are WAP-enabled. But doesn't the speed of 3G and the average phone with WiFi support renders WAP useless?
So, I guess my question is: if a mobile phone today (both cell phones and smart phones) access a website using a HTML-capable web browser, does it use the standard TCP/IP stack, a mobile version of it, or each phone has a proprietary model?
Am I even making sense??? :S
Thank you for your patience.
there are still wap pages out there but doubt that will inc
if your network operator support it wap pages will work in any browser
just as ugly www pages
Parts of WAP are still in use, however the majority of it has been replaced.
As I understand it the first version of WAP required special gateways and didn't use HTTP as the application layer. WAP 2.0 however dropped all this rubbish, and just went with HTTP.
In regards to the wireless protocols, the GSM protocols GPRS and EDGE are still used when there is no 3G signal available, however 3G is the preferred method. I don't believe there are any operators who only provide a 3G service without GSM fallback. 3G networks typically use a packet-switched network design for data services, similar to the internet.
The format of the pages themselves is another interesting one. The majority of 'mobile sites' nowadays just use regular HTML, or a subset of it. There are a few different XHTML standards targeted at mobile devices. The level of support varies greatly between handsets, however practically all phones made in the last five years will support some sort of CSS. WML is a markup language designed for WAP usage, however AFAIK it is basically not used now. I don't believe smart phones (Android at least) even support rendering WML pages. WML is an even stricter subset of HTML, and to be honest I don't really think is worth bothering with
Hope this helps, if you want some clarification of anything let me know!
thelucster said:
Parts of WAP are still in use, however the majority of it has been replaced.
As I understand it the first version of WAP required special gateways and didn't use HTTP as the application layer. WAP 2.0 however dropped all this rubbish, and just went with HTTP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was exactly what I wanted to find out. Thank you very much.
So, if I understand this correctly, when a mobile application wants to access a website with standard HTTP, it still uses the WAP 2.0 Stack; correct? If this is true, then Android or iPhone, or WinMo, or the rest, all have the WAP 2.0 stack embedded in their OS? Or is the WAP stack old and it has been replaced by proprietary TCP/IP implementations?
I think I am a little confused :S
thelucster said:
WML is a markup language designed for WAP usage, however AFAIK it is basically not used now. I don't believe smart phones (Android at least) even support rendering WML pages. WML is an even stricter subset of HTML, and to be honest I don't really think is worth bothering with
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, WML was for WAP 1.0. WAP 2.0 supports XHTML Mobile Profile. So since there is no WAP 1.0 there is probably no WML also.
thelucster said:
Hope this helps, if you want some clarification of anything let me know!
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Click to collapse
It indeed helped. Thank you very much.
Hi, this thread has some factual errors, so figured it may be valuable for someone who looks for information and ends up here, to have a set of good information available in the thread.
kimolias said:
So, if I understand this correctly, when a mobile application wants to access a website with standard HTTP, it still uses the WAP 2.0 Stack; correct? If this is true, then Android or iPhone, or WinMo, or the rest, all have the WAP 2.0 stack embedded in their OS? Or is the WAP stack old and it has been replaced by proprietary TCP/IP implementations?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not sure what "mobile applications" that want to access websites you are talking about. The typical apps available on a device from the factory that need to connect somewhere are Browser, MMS and Email applications. Of these, the Browser is the one that wants to access a website and the browser has built-in the protocols it needs.
And also to clarify lets make it clear that WAP specs includes both specs for markup language (how to display the content) as well as transport protocols (how to send/get the data). But, for this post I will only comment on the data transport protocols and completely ignore the markup languages (WML, xHTML-MP and HTML) and how or where they are used.
BROWSER
Let's split the Browser into two types of browser first, to make things a little more clear.
1) WEB Browser
2) WAP Browser
The WEB Browser uses the "regular" HTTP protocol to connect directly to webserver (on top of TCP/IP provided by the operating system) to get content.
The WAP Browser can use WAP 1.2 (Wireless Session Protocol/Wireless Transaction Layer) to connect to a WAP Gateway, and the WAP Gateway in turn uses regular HTTP to get the content from the webserver.
The WAP Browser can use WAP 2.0 (Mobile Profile HTTP) to connect to a WAP Proxy, and the WAP Proxy uses regular HTTP to get the content from the webserver.
I do not want to make this confusing by even mentioning the secured versions of the above, cause it's messy.
MMS (a.k.a picture messaging)
Multimedia Messaging also uses WAP. When a MMS Message is sent to a cellphone recipient, the cellphone actually only receives a SMS message (a.k.a. text message) which includes a Notification that a new MMS message exists. Then, the cellphone must open a data connection (GPRS,3G, CDMA or whatever the device/carrier uses) and then use WAP 1.2 or WAP 2.0 to connect to a WAP Proxy or WAP Gateway and then use that connection to download the actual MMS Message. When sending messages the cellphone also uses WAP 1.2 or WAP 2.0 and WAP Gateway/Proxy to deliver the message to the carriers MMSC (Multimedia messaging center).
EMAIL
Email has it's own set of data transport protocols. Depending on the users account it could use protocols like POP3 or IMAP to receive and manage the arriving emails. To send, it could use the SMTP protocol. Unless, it's a Microsoft Exchange email client and uses MS proprietary protocols.
Conclusion so far: As you can see, "mobile apps" can use a variety of protocols to get or send data over wireless connections. Generally the only thing they have in common is that they all ride on top of TCP/IP and the operating system creates that TCP/IP layer on top of the wireless technology (GSM/CDMA/3G/4G/WiFI etc) connection.
To return to the original question of whether WAP still is in use (in 2010), the answer is that WAP in use in almost every handset on the market and doing well. However, it is the WAP protocol stack that today is the important part of the technology. WAP 2.0 pages (xHTML-MP formatted) are also very common and ringtone delivery pages etc all use this over WAP connections as this way the carriers can charge for the content with your monthly bill. Without it, they can't control the payments and credit cards or other means must be use.
Further, if you buy a ringtone or similar by sending a text somewhere, you get a WAP Push message in return with a link for downloading the content. This link would not work over regular HTTP as then the carrier can't track if you downloaded the content you paid for or not.
For Android or Meego or other "new" popular platforms, the OEM maufacturers of devices can buy the WAP Stack's for WAP connectivity or MMS from companies like Winwap Technologies (winwap.com) that specifically provide such technolgy for the manfuacturer.
In the end, the consumer does not need to know if HTTP, WAP or something else is used as long as they get what they paid for and want.
Hope this helps somebody?
Cheers,
Aaron (a developer of mobile that's been around too long...)
TEXT, MMS, and Email formats
I may not be using the proper verbage however I am hoping the process/question is clear.
Are the different protocols used for the three above needed for actual transport of the specific message types etc?
I am assuming the phone / computer / ??? has the protocol to play/view. Could they all be sent via sms text type format. Message plus attachment sent via wifi? once reaching destination program opens them ?
I am sure you woule need applet and servlet but is there a protocol that can do that without using a cellconnection plus data connection?
t_galownia said:
TEXT, MMS, and Email formats
Are the different protocols used for the three above needed for actual transport of the specific message types etc?
I am assuming the phone / computer / ??? has the protocol to play/view. Could they all be sent via sms text type format. Message plus attachment sent via wifi? once reaching destination program opens them ?
I am sure you woule need applet and servlet but is there a protocol that can do that without using a cellconnection plus data connection?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Generally anything is possible if you have access to the infrastructure. But, if you are not a telecom carrier or big enough OEM manufacturer - your only choice is to use what is available.
EMAIL: WiFi is fine for email, but you still need to run SMTP on top of WiFi to send the actual email to some SMTP server.
MMS: WiFi is not fine for MMS, unless you have MM7 or other special access to the telecom operators MMS Center.
TEXT: WiFi can not be used. TEXT (correctly called SMS or Short Message Service) uses it's own protocol that's built into the GSM/CDMA protocols. Impossible to send over WiFi unless you use WiFi to send to your own server where you have an actual wireless modem that sends out the TEXT (or again; you can probably pay your telecom carrier and spend money to build a system that let's you send your TEXT over WiFi to some server that handles the rest for you).
hope this helps...
Excellent feedback
abbe-dev said:
Hi, this thread has some factual errors, so figured it may be valuable for someone who looks for information and ends up here, to have a set of good information available in the thread.
I am not sure what "mobile applications" that want to access websites you are talking about. The typical apps available on a device from the factory that need to connect somewhere are Browser, MMS and Email applications. Of these, the Browser is the one that wants to access a website and the browser has built-in the protocols it needs.
And also to clarify lets make it clear that WAP specs includes both specs for markup language (how to display the content) as well as transport protocols (how to send/get the data). But, for this post I will only comment on the data transport protocols and completely ignore the markup languages (WML, xHTML-MP and HTML) and how or where they are used.
BROWSER
Let's split the Browser into two types of browser first, to make things a little more clear.
1) WEB Browser
2) WAP Browser
The WEB Browser uses the "regular" HTTP protocol to connect directly to webserver (on top of TCP/IP provided by the operating system) to get content.
The WAP Browser can use WAP 1.2 (Wireless Session Protocol/Wireless Transaction Layer) to connect to a WAP Gateway, and the WAP Gateway in turn uses regular HTTP to get the content from the webserver.
The WAP Browser can use WAP 2.0 (Mobile Profile HTTP) to connect to a WAP Proxy, and the WAP Proxy uses regular HTTP to get the content from the webserver.
I do not want to make this confusing by even mentioning the secured versions of the above, cause it's messy.
MMS (a.k.a picture messaging)
Multimedia Messaging also uses WAP. When a MMS Message is sent to a cellphone recipient, the cellphone actually only receives a SMS message (a.k.a. text message) which includes a Notification that a new MMS message exists. Then, the cellphone must open a data connection (GPRS,3G, CDMA or whatever the device/carrier uses) and then use WAP 1.2 or WAP 2.0 to connect to a WAP Proxy or WAP Gateway and then use that connection to download the actual MMS Message. When sending messages the cellphone also uses WAP 1.2 or WAP 2.0 and WAP Gateway/Proxy to deliver the message to the carriers MMSC (Multimedia messaging center).
EMAIL
Email has it's own set of data transport protocols. Depending on the users account it could use protocols like POP3 or IMAP to receive and manage the arriving emails. To send, it could use the SMTP protocol. Unless, it's a Microsoft Exchange email client and uses MS proprietary protocols.
Conclusion so far: As you can see, "mobile apps" can use a variety of protocols to get or send data over wireless connections. Generally the only thing they have in common is that they all ride on top of TCP/IP and the operating system creates that TCP/IP layer on top of the wireless technology (GSM/CDMA/3G/4G/WiFI etc) connection.
To return to the original question of whether WAP still is in use (in 2010), the answer is that WAP in use in almost every handset on the market and doing well. However, it is the WAP protocol stack that today is the important part of the technology. WAP 2.0 pages (xHTML-MP formatted) are also very common and ringtone delivery pages etc all use this over WAP connections as this way the carriers can charge for the content with your monthly bill. Without it, they can't control the payments and credit cards or other means must be use.
Further, if you buy a ringtone or similar by sending a text somewhere, you get a WAP Push message in return with a link for downloading the content. This link would not work over regular HTTP as then the carrier can't track if you downloaded the content you paid for or not.
For Android or Meego or other "new" popular platforms, the OEM maufacturers of devices can buy the WAP Stack's for WAP connectivity or MMS from companies like Winwap Technologies (winwap.com) that specifically provide such technolgy for the manfuacturer.
In the end, the consumer does not need to know if HTTP, WAP or something else is used as long as they get what they paid for and want.
Hope this helps somebody?
Cheers,
Aaron (a developer of mobile that's been around too long...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
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What could be the wayout to retrieve MDN information without using WAP Proxy in a CDMA environment?
This can be achieved for Non-WAP during A11 authentication. Thoughts and expert advise needed.
Regards,