Database Users

What is going on...?

Ok first and foremost this is not just another post of someone complaining, in no way am i trying to offend or criticize this new device...these are simply observations made by a previous HTC owner (MDA/Herald/Wing) me...
I understand that the open source to "create" applications is fairly new not to mention all us G1 owners (ive had mine for lil more then a month). My concern is why are we seeing such "simple" programing in applications and things tht in reality none of us would ever use? Not to mention graphics what is going on...Look i have not created any nor have taken the time to even try to create applications, and if you or someone you know has, then my hats off to you, i envy you for knowing how and taking the time to...what im saying is why do all these new applications have so many bugs and in my opinion (cause that is all it is) are sub-par...i know its not really fair to compare to any other device on the market since it is the first of its kind, but im getting a little skeptical...am i alone in this? i find myself checking the android market every hour hoping for some sign to motivate me, but nothing so far aside from the obvious winners (youtube,maps,imeem,wheather channel etc...)...ill shut up now i sincerely was not trying to stir things up, and know/knew when i purcased the G1 it was the first of its kind and would probably take time to show its full potential, i just thought there were some things google had up its sleeve that were ready...does anyone have any insight or knowledge of better things to come...?

timace said:
Ok first and foremost this is not just another post of someone complaining, in no way am i trying to offend or criticize this new device...these are simply observations made by a previous HTC owner (MDA/Herald/Wing) me...
I understand that the open source to "create" applications is fairly new not to mention all us G1 owners (ive had mine for lil more then a month). My concern is why are we seeing such "simple" programing in applications and things tht in reality none of us would ever use? Not to mention graphics what is going on...Look i have not created any nor have taken the time to even try to create applications, and if you or someone you know has, then my hats off to you, i envy you for knowing how and taking the time to...what im saying is why do all these new applications have so many bugs and in my opinion (cause that is all it is) are sub-par...i know its not really fair to compare to any other device on the market since it is the first of its kind, but im getting a little skeptical...am i alone in this? i find myself checking the android market every hour hoping for some sign to motivate me, but nothing so far aside from the obvious winners (youtube,maps,imeem,wheather channel etc...)...ill shut up now i sincerely was not trying to stir things up, and know/knew when i purcased the G1 it was the first of its kind and would probably take time to show its full potential, i just thought there were some things google had up its sleeve that were ready...does anyone have any insight or knowledge of better things to come...?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally, I find the plethora of apps encouraging, yes, some are more useful than others but the wide range of effort is fan-flippin-tastic.
MY biggest observation is that the Market place needs some severe MODERATOR intervention... the one star "i is first u goons" and "this app suks (because I am too stupid to read the intro to figure out what it is for) really really really needs to be cleaned up/out. (A perfect example is the UTC clock... it does EXACTLY what it says, true, the numbers in the display look like they are from a missile silo, but hey, it is a tribute to the UTC heritage...anyway, people bag on it because they have no idea why, what, or anything else about it... morons)
[/rant]
--M

demontefixo said:
Personally, I find the plethora of apps encouraging, yes, some are more useful than others but the wide range of effort is fan-flippin-tastic.
MY biggest observation is that the Market place needs some severe MODERATOR intervention... the one star "i is first u goons" and "this app suks (because I am too stupid to read the intro to figure out what it is for) really really really needs to be cleaned up/out. (A perfect example is the UTC clock... it does EXACTLY what it says, true, the numbers in the display look like they are from a missile silo, but hey, it is a tribute to the UTC heritage...anyway, people bag on it because they have no idea why, what, or anything else about it... morons)
[/rant]
--M
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree "first" comments are riduculous, and if you dont like the application from descrption then dont install it...positive criticism is more then welcome but "this sucks" is getting on my nerves...

timace said:
Ok first and foremost this is not just another post of someone complaining, in no way am i trying to offend or criticize this new device...these are simply observations made by a previous HTC owner (MDA/Herald/Wing) me...
I understand that the open source to "create" applications is fairly new not to mention all us G1 owners (ive had mine for lil more then a month). My concern is why are we seeing such "simple" programing in applications and things tht in reality none of us would ever use? Not to mention graphics what is going on...Look i have not created any nor have taken the time to even try to create applications, and if you or someone you know has, then my hats off to you, i envy you for knowing how and taking the time to...what im saying is why do all these new applications have so many bugs and in my opinion (cause that is all it is) are sub-par...i know its not really fair to compare to any other device on the market since it is the first of its kind, but im getting a little skeptical...am i alone in this? i find myself checking the android market every hour hoping for some sign to motivate me, but nothing so far aside from the obvious winners (youtube,maps,imeem,wheather channel etc...)...ill shut up now i sincerely was not trying to stir things up, and know/knew when i purcased the G1 it was the first of its kind and would probably take time to show its full potential, i just thought there were some things google had up its sleeve that were ready...does anyone have any insight or knowledge of better things to come...?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree with you; even though i love this phone there are a lot of things i dislike about it. the only advice i can give to you is to be patient. the phone has 'officially' been out for a little under a month and there is already so much improvements to it:
- 2 updates have already been rolled out,
- we have found a Root and a way to manually update it.
- we are beginning to see system folders moved to sdcard to save space(even though the phone should have came with more memory)
apps on the market are getting better i don't if you have seen the app "bubble". bubble is a basic bubble level that uses the accelerometer to see if something is level and changes as the phone changes orientation it may seem like a simple app but it shows that Google came come out with an update that uses the accelerometer to change orientation.
- first signs of on screen keyboards like akeyui, a7email and a7sms.
all of these improvements in about 3 weeks and tons more to come idk what anybody can complain about besides hardware issues
just wait come Jan 2009 the G1 isnt going to be anything like it is today.
demontefixo said:
Personally, I find the plethora of apps encouraging, yes, some are more useful than others but the wide range of effort is fan-flippin-tastic.
MY biggest observation is that the Market place needs some severe MODERATOR intervention... the one star "i is first u goons" and "this app suks (because I am too stupid to read the intro to figure out what it is for) really really really needs to be cleaned up/out. (A perfect example is the UTC clock... it does EXACTLY what it says, true, the numbers in the display look like they are from a missile silo, but hey, it is a tribute to the UTC heritage...anyway, people bag on it because they have no idea why, what, or anything else about it... morons)
[/rant]
--M
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah there need to be some serious clean up in th commenting sections, some of these comments might discourage people from developing apps for the G1, i think comments should strictly about the apps and not about being 1st or 151st, or bashing other commenters, and people definitely should not comment on an app the don't know how to use.
however developers should include directions on how to use their apps so people do not have to rely on commenting to try and figure out what it does and how it does it.

The point is the development muscle that has been put in the device is minor.I feel like the market is made by kids or teenagers that stopped uploading on youtube and are writing apps using ready made lego kits (APIs). The apps in the market are all basic stuff. There is not even a Divx player for this device available but 5 Video players using the Google provided APIs to play mp4 which only play SOME mp4 files not all.
I love the sliding, bubble and Gmail on it but I cant name too many more things I love. Not even a Navi that works properly. I really cant think of anything else I love about it. No office, word, excel, PDF, flash, divx. The SMS system is grouped together. The actual phone keyboard is beyond basic with no options. There are simply too many bugs on the phone operation itself like bluetooth etc.
Time flies google, we need apps that have more than 10 man-hours of software programming spent on it. Lets stop the growth of many timers and alarms in the market and get some real stuff out there. Microsoft has probably put in millions of development hours into WM and it was not until now that I realized this.

brooklynite said:
The point is the development muscle that has been put in the device is minor.I feel like the market is made by kids or teenagers that stopped uploading on youtube and are writing apps using ready made lego kits (APIs). The apps in the market are all basic stuff. There is not even a Divx player for this device available but 5 Video players using the Google provided APIs to play mp4 which only play SOME mp4 files not all.
I love the sliding, bubble and Gmail on it but I cant name too many more things I love. Not even a Navi that works properly. I really cant think of anything else I love about it. No office, word, excel, PDF, flash, divx. The SMS system is grouped together. The actual phone keyboard is beyond basic with no options. There are simply too many bugs on the phone operation itself like bluetooth etc.
Time flies google, we need apps that have more than 10 man-hours of software programming spent on it. Lets stop the growth of many timers and alarms in the market and get some real stuff out there. Microsoft has probably put in millions of development hours into WM and it was not until now that I realized this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
muscle...DiVix...kids...office...flash...basic...bugs
words that stood out and i DEFINATELY agree

as i said before patience is the key here
the reason why there aren't many good programs out right know is because they are still in development, there are some apps that won google's app contest that are not on the market because they are still under development. developers take their to try and come out with a bug free app and you criticize them for taking to long however if they rush it and get it out with SOME bugs people crucify them. how long did you think it took for divx or flash to be developed for other phones?
why do people expect a phone thats been out for under a month to have the same capabilities as phones that been out for years?
how many phone do you know had divx support right out of the box or even one month after release? i estimate that divx support will be out before the end of the year.
i agree that apps on the market are going the the hole, especially with millions of the same type of apps, c'mon how many different weather apps do we need, how many background apps is necessary. but you got to admit out of the hundreds of apps on the market there are some good ones.

I'm waiting with great anticipation on the games for the g1. Sure i want cut copy and paste, document reader, full video player, full file manager and task manager as well as others but i'm dying to play nes games and others on this phone. The market is pretty lame in the games department but hey i got pacman, solitaire, and a few others free so i'm not gonna complain. I think the apps are very promising and there are a wide variety of them. Granted none of the crucial apps are out yet but i have quite a few on g1 that i love and got em all for free!!! We just have to be patient, i knew going in i would have to be.

All the apps are free. The hardware has only been in people's hands for a few weeks (at most). A serious developer, wanting to create the exact apps we're all hoping for, needs a heck of a lot more time. The SDK was fine, but any serious developer is going to want to log a lot of hours with a physical device (or several) to finalize the product.
And they're not going to do all that, for free.
This device has huge potential, and the reason we're seeing amaturish apps is because the only people who are willing to play around with creating apps for free are mostly hobbyists who want feedback to further their skills.
I predict that once the payment system is set up for the Market, the apps you're all stomping your feet about are going to show up.
The programs we're talking about are complex, writing them and testing them is time consuming, and I assume that they're going to be larger than the apps we're seeing now. It's entirely possible that some of these apps are almost finished, but are waiting for SD card loading to be added to the functionality before they can release them. Some may even be delayed by the announcement of the virtual keyboard -- they may want to integrate that for the launch of their apps.
I think two things need to happen before we're going to see the apps we all want.
-Pay system on Android Market
-The Ability for Apps to be installed and run from the SD card.
Until those two things happen, the App Store is going to be like it is. And it's also time you guys thought about something. The apps that are "missing" were never a secret, most of the complaints I see are about things that were known well before launch, or discovered the first week people had it in hand. If you didn't read up, that's your fault. If you read up and assumed things would be taken care of within one to two months (something no one promised you) that's also your fault.
I'll predict something for you right now, in light of the economy and everything else, it'll be 6 months to a year before HALF the apps we want are available and working. Now, that's just my estimate, but if that sounds "too long" to wait, then I'd invest in another phone rather than spending the next 6 months posting complaints like "why isn't _____ done yet? And where's the ______ app?!!"
Just my 2 cents

I have already heard many apps have been developed but the developers are waiting for the pay system which has already been annoucnced and is coming 3 months after launch.
I am similar to you... give it time and you will see the best things you have ever seen. I mean look at Linux... they have some awesome apps on most linux flavors that make me dual boot into linux just to have. I think this device will be the same as this was the entire purpose.
Google is updating features all the time in the git directory and it won't be long before they fix the main issues and then the developers will be looking at new things to give us.
So far the barcode readers alone seem like such a huge advantage as I haven't seen them on mobile devices before(at least none that worked)

brooklynite said:
The point is the development muscle that has been put in the device is minor.I feel like the market is made by kids or teenagers that stopped uploading on youtube and are writing apps using ready made lego kits (APIs). The apps in the market are all basic stuff. There is not even a Divx player for this device available but 5 Video players using the Google provided APIs to play mp4 which only play SOME mp4 files not all.
I love the sliding, bubble and Gmail on it but I cant name too many more things I love. Not even a Navi that works properly. I really cant think of anything else I love about it. No office, word, excel, PDF, flash, divx. The SMS system is grouped together. The actual phone keyboard is beyond basic with no options. There are simply too many bugs on the phone operation itself like bluetooth etc.
Time flies google, we need apps that have more than 10 man-hours of software programming spent on it. Lets stop the growth of many timers and alarms in the market and get some real stuff out there. Microsoft has probably put in millions of development hours into WM and it was not until now that I realized this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you said my answer in your own post. The device has been out less than a month. That's nowhere near enough time to make those killer apps you're talking about. To google's credit they did put in things like street view with the compass mode and there are those apps you've talked about. It takes MONTHS to do real software developement so you're going to keep seeing more and more alarms and stuff until then.

seriously, does ANYBODY give a ratsass or even use streetview?
They should have made sure all the media stuff and the email was topnotcxh.

I agree 100% with the first post! Google should have prepaired Android better. There is a lot of competition out there and I would say by what I've seen so far they are light years behind. I did not expect that with all the money in the world Google couldn't release product that was better polished. I have put my G1 back in its box and I'm back to my unlocked Tilt, what sucks is going back to the old screen and Edge but its functinality that I need. I wish they made some kind of task aplication that I can put on the screen kind of likr thr picture frame that would display my tasks for the day. I have a Motorola ROKR E2 that runs Linux and there are more useful stuff for it out there. I desagree we have to wait untill we start paying for apliications, I believe Google can afford providing us with free functional software as more and more people will be using their services.

i love my g1, but i agree with these people that google didn't do enough...and i hope they're working to fix it.
i think that their whole "leave it in the hands of developers" approach was probably a mistake. they should have made all the basic applications like they did but also gone a step further to spice up the phone. i hope that google, in the new few updates, incorporates some more stuff, like OUTLOOK SYNC (i wuld love it if they changed the google calendar sync for windows into just google sync and have it sync everything with outlook....funambol right now sucks i have like 80 of each contact!)
they also should have made a GOOD video recorder / player, and even a better music player. they're trying to beat apple at multimedia, and are failing miserably.
they should add a decent on-screen keyboard and maybe even a task manager...or make it only have like 4 open tasks in the backgroudn...because i've noticed my g1 slowing down a lot after having a few apps open.
google should add a manual update button...i'm still on RC28 because i dont feel like installing the modified rc30 or plugging it in to update. have a freaking "UPDATE" button in the system info thing or something.
i think google needs more than 3 home screens...i've already filled all of mine up. they also should have added more widgets, like the guy above me said.
SELECTING TEXT SUCKS. i have to use the trackball to select a ltter of a word...on my windows mobile i could just tap on where i wanted it to be and at least it would get me within 1 or 2 letters...if i tap on a word on the g1 nothing happens!
we need to be able to install stuff to the sd card!
i think i'm missing a lot of things but i've only had the phone for 2 days and i've noticed all that...i hope developers DO step in if google is too stupid not to add more basic functionality.
/rant

Look at it this way currently there is no way to charge for apps that are developed. This is why we are seeing nothing but apps programed by independant programers some of which are good and some of which are useless. Once companies can charge for apps then it will make sence to put money into the development of better more porfessional apps. My suggestion is to just hold off on passing judgement untill the market is finished to where people that spend money in development can recoup those losses. I do think that the market place should have been finished before launch but what can you do.

coffeboy23 said:
Look at it this way currently there is no way to charge for apps that are developed. This is why we are seeing nothing but apps programed by independant programers some of which are good and some of which are useless. Once companies can charge for apps then it will make sence to put money into the development of better more porfessional apps. My suggestion is to just hold off on passing judgement untill the market is finished to where people that spend money in development can recoup those losses. I do think that the market place should have been finished before launch but what can you do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agaqin, super lame of google.
We can get a bunch of usless wank programs, but not proepr ones, becasue they don't have the pay market ready.
Also, I think that certain things like exchange and a proper email client shoudl have been included.

And remember most people are new to development, don't know how many "this is my first try" apps I have seen. When you get that one that charges 20 bucks for the app... you will get another developer who will release it free and just ask for donations... I suggest donating whatever you can to the one that gives it free.

Henchman said:
Agaqin, super lame of google.
We can get a bunch of usless wank programs, but not proepr ones, becasue they don't have the pay market ready.
Also, I think that certain things like exchange and a proper email client shoudl have been included.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
google isnt the one entirely in charge of the market... tmobile is the one wanting money

neoobs said:
google isnt the one entirely in charge of the market... tmobile is the one wanting money
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Click to collapse
No, but it was google who shoudl ahve made sure that the basics were coveredf well.
The Camera I'm sure can take greta pics, but the controls suck.
The email is severly lacking.
No streaming video.
And they shoudl ahve elarnt form the iPhoen release, that push email fro MsExcahnge should have been there fromt he getgo.
Or the should have built a BB app, just like you can get for WinMo.
No, they focused on teenagers, not professionals.

neoobs said:
google isnt the one entirely in charge of the market... tmobile is the one wanting money
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no....google is not taking any money but is giving 30% of all apps sold to the carriers...tmobile might be the one "wanting" money but they have no control over the app store at all.

Will Windows Mobile ever....

Get applications like you can get for the iPhone?
I have just had a 'demo' of a load of free apps for the Iphone on a colleagues Iphone and I must admit I was impressed and very surprised, I had always discounted the Iphone as an option for me due to the many (well documented) short commings for power users. However after seeing such applications as the Tioti TV+ which is so quick and smooth and lets you send remote record requests to a Sky+ box - somehting I have been desperate for. Along with great film and cinema applications and many other very neat applications which aren't available on Windows Mobile, I am begining to wonder if I made the wrong decision in purchassing my touch HD??!
Just thought I would share my thoughts with you all....I am sure I will get a barrage of abuse for this post, but would love to know if we think the future of windows mobile may include some more intuitive and consistently looking applications.
P.S. If anyone knows of a SKY+ remote record app which is designed for Windows Mobile I would love to know!

A related question from a relative novice when it comes to downloading and installing apps... is there anything like the iPhone appstore for Windows mobile apps - where applications are listed with screenshots, descriptions, what phones/resolution they work on, etc? I've seen lots of great home-grown apps, and lots of vendor websites that seem to be pedalling a specific product, but haven't seen anything that attempts to bring it all together?
Thanks,
Dave

davehodgkinson said:
A related question from a relative novice when it comes to downloading and installing apps... is there anything like the iPhone appstore for Windows mobile apps - where applications are listed with screenshots, descriptions, what phones/resolution they work on, etc? I've seen lots of great home-grown apps, and lots of vendor websites that seem to be pedalling a specific product, but haven't seen anything that attempts to bring it all together?
Thanks,
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
www.handango.com for example....

jrshodges said:
Get applications like you can get for the iPhone?
I have just had a 'demo' of a load of free apps for the Iphone on a colleagues Iphone and I must admit I was impressed and very surprised, I had always discounted the Iphone as an option for me due to the many (well documented) short commings for power users. However after seeing such applications as the Tioti TV+ which is so quick and smooth and lets you send remote record requests to a Sky+ box - somehting I have been desperate for. Along with great film and cinema applications and many other very neat applications which aren't available on Windows Mobile, I am begining to wonder if I made the wrong decision in purchassing my touch HD??!
Just thought I would share my thoughts with you all....I am sure I will get a barrage of abuse for this post, but would love to know if we think the future of windows mobile may include some more intuitive and consistently looking applications.
P.S. If anyone knows of a SKY+ remote record app which is designed for Windows Mobile I would love to know!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use Sky+ and have no idea on apps for this - but, I understood it is possible to control the Sky+ box remotely just via an SMS ?
Another possible option is a Slingbox ?
Try also pocketgear.com for applications: http://www.pocketgear.com/en_US/html/index.jsp
and, Softpedia: http://handheld.softpedia.com/#categories-soft

A five second search on google / sky produced this:
http://anytime.sky.com/mobile.aspx

And clicking through to the supported handsets only lists a few manufacturers and I don't think there are any WM devices.
I think it's a Java app? It might work (I don't have Sky, so can't test!).

Cheesy Dave said:
A five second search on google / sky produced this:
http://anytime.sky.com/mobile.aspx
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Click to collapse
Perhaps you should read on as there is no compatible version for Windows Mobile 6.1 (HTC Touch HD)!
Hawk

You need to analyse your own requirements before deciding if iphone or HD is right for you.
For me, the lack of GPS software (google map doesnt qualify), office applications, user swappable spare battery, inability to support stylus, and lack of choices in software keyboard in iphone make it an unacceptable choice.
Another person's need might be different.
jrshodges said:
Get applications like you can get for the iPhone?
I have just had a 'demo' of a load of free apps for the Iphone on a colleagues Iphone and I must admit I was impressed and very surprised, I had always discounted the Iphone as an option for me due to the many (well documented) short commings for power users. However after seeing such applications as the Tioti TV+ which is so quick and smooth and lets you send remote record requests to a Sky+ box - somehting I have been desperate for. Along with great film and cinema applications and many other very neat applications which aren't available on Windows Mobile, I am begining to wonder if I made the wrong decision in purchassing my touch HD??!
Just thought I would share my thoughts with you all....I am sure I will get a barrage of abuse for this post, but would love to know if we think the future of windows mobile may include some more intuitive and consistently looking applications.
P.S. If anyone knows of a SKY+ remote record app which is designed for Windows Mobile I would love to know!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Nighthawk2050 said:
Perhaps you should read on as there is no compatible version for Windows Mobile 6.1 (HTC Touch HD)!
Hawk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've installed the JAVA components and they work on Windows Mobile 6.1 - the issue is that the software expects you to have a keyboard (or a keypad) attached to input various details .... so you can't use it on a Touch HD !

Thank you for all your comments and suggestions, however I don't beleive sites like handandgo etc are anything like the Iphone Appstore, the apps cost a lot more and you have no idea of compatability. I don't beleive you can easily browse for apps on your handset, like you can with for example the Iphone.
I am not saying I think the Iphone is the best choice of phone, but they certainly got somehting right with the app store and wondered if Microsoft will listen up and provide developers an easy route to dev similar apps for windows mobile?!
I Have tried all the Java Sky remote apps before and as you have spotted they do not work with a touch screen device if it doesn't have hardware buttons too. Also even if it did work it is not very user freindly - I was using this as a example of a really usefull app, which I am amazed has not been built for Windows Mobile touch devices too....it just seems weird why there are so many great little apps for the Iphone, which are so easy to download and browse though, yet it has only been about a relatively short time in comparison with Windows Mobile....I find this most annoying!
Anyway, thanks again for your input

jrshodges said:
Thank you for all your comments and suggestions, however I don't beleive sites like handandgo etc are anything like the Iphone Appstore, the apps cost a lot more and you have no idea of compatability. I don't beleive you can easily browse for apps on your handset, like you can with for example the Iphone.
I am not saying I think the Iphone is the best choice of phone, but they certainly got somehting right with the app store and wondered if Microsoft will listen up and provide developers an easy route to dev similar apps for windows mobile?!
I Have tried all the Java Sky remote apps before and as you have spotted they do not work with a touch screen device if it doesn't have hardware buttons too. Also even if it did work it is not very user freindly - I was using this as a example of a really usefull app, which I am amazed has not been built for Windows Mobile touch devices too....it just seems weird why there are so many great little apps for the Iphone, which are so easy to download and browse though, yet it has only been about a relatively short time in comparison with Windows Mobile....I find this most annoying!
Anyway, thanks again for your input
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome and good luck with your choice - still an Iphone ?
Yes, the apps in WM are expensive and there is no simple app store. Rumours are around that MS will fix this.
Having said that, the app developers for WM are doing some great work. I have loads of apps on my HD (see other forum posts I've made recently).
I would like a TV guide app that brings in channels from across Europe. That is, one that would allow me to select my favorite channels.
Sorry the Sky+ thing did not work, as I said, I don't have any experience with this. I'm surprised the keyboard SIP did not work when using the java app.

michi123 said:
www.handango.com for example....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you - will take a look around that and the others suggested by people. I suspect my response will be similar to jrshodges - not overly clear on compatibility and quite expensive. But I won't be pessimistic...
Thanks again.
Dave

Cheesy Dave said:
You're welcome and good luck with your choice - still an Iphone ?
Yes, the apps in WM are expensive and there is no simple app store. Rumours are around that MS will fix this.
Having said that, the app developers for WM are doing some great work. I have loads of apps on my HD (see other forum posts I've made recently).
I would like a TV guide app that brings in channels from across Europe. That is, one that would allow me to select my favorite channels.
Sorry the Sky+ thing did not work, as I said, I don't have any experience with this. I'm surprised the keyboard SIP did not work when using the java app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cheers Dave, no - not an Iphone...yet...I am happy to persevere with my WinMo device for the forseeable as I do belive I would miss, like others Sat Nav (which by the way I use TomTom and it looks and works great) ease of Exchange sync etc etc.
I just wanted to rant for a bit about the lack of decent and easily accesable apps for WinMo....in the hopes someone would point me in the direction of a lovely MS App Store (wishful thinking!). I hope you are right and wee do see something from MS soon, although I guess they will wait and in include it in Windows Mobile 6.5 or 7 - although by the sounds of it that won't be anytime soon :-(
And if anyone does ever find a decent TV guide and Sky + App then please remember this thread and post it for us!

Its also worth mentioning that although there are a lot of iPhone apps, and yes they are cheap, most are useless eye candy that have about 2 minutes worth of value in them.

Check out my list of apps here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3116988#post3116988
Also, of course, the wiki page:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Software
I don't know much about the Apple apps. But, I can say that some of these WM apps are really serious work and clearly have had lots of effort and thought applied to them.
My latest addition is Pocket Stars - a bit of astronomy fun for me, but a serious app for enthusiasts.

The iphone is for simple folk. The app store is for simple folk. IE it works.
WM is bit more complicated but gives those of you willing to use it a lot more freedom.

I do wish there were more apps and games for the HD.
I have both the Iphone and HD at home (well the Mrs has the iphone) once jailbroken the iphone is truly amazing and I almost wish i had one instead, but them my mrs reminds me why i dont have one, I would get board in no time. I played with hers (iphone that is) for a couple of days over the xmas break then went back to playing around on my HD.
Its still early days for the HD and remember the IPHONE has been around for quite some time now.
Give it a little time and the HD will be up there with the iphone, you already starting to see some really nice app/games coming out.
My only other wish would be some way to get multi-touch to work on HD as it makes games very playable on iphone.

The problem with Microsoft trying to replicate the iPhone App Store is that Apple have 2 different handsets to maintain, which are practically identical except for the GPS/3G.
There are many different versions of WM in use, with many software customisations by handset manufacturers and operators and varying hardware abilities.
I'm not sure how it would be possible to test the full range of devices that a particular application may work with. On top of that, people may or may not have updated the firmware for their device, which can break (or fix) applications.
I'd love to see it, but it's certainly more difficult supporting hundreds of different handsets customised by many operators rather than 1 and a bit

I saw on here that someone is working very hard to make a form of "app store" that will work on phones (credit to them for the effort) its called Gecko...i found the link on the forum. Give it time, I think it will come...

G1 Very Sluggish

Not that I'm asking for help about the sluggishness, it's just that the G1 is just overall way more sluggish than my friends iPhone 3G. As in web pages load WAY faster (Wifi on both devices being used). The UI is way more snappy.
And I understand the trade offs I'd get with an iPhone. No true multitasking or alerts from apps (like twitter email etc. . .) No Gmail push (I think) no Google Cal sync over the air, or contact sync OTA. All these things are great, but I dunno, I think I'm going to crossover into iPhone land soon. The G1 just became a let down for me after using it closely for about 6 months. And using other peoples iPhones on and off.
This is just a rant. And mostly I'm talking about browser load speeds and UI. It would be nice if Google maps oriented the direction we're facing since it has a compass. But the new update is moving in the right direction. Love the walking directions. But I think I'm gonna move on to 1 app at a time, Draconian app approval, HYPE land, release 5 HW revisions before making a new product, iPhone land.
Any Takers. Who can refute my arguments. I'm using Google Ion ROM also.

Heh, and the iPhone 3GS supposed to be even faster!

You're pretty much begging for a flame by asking that in here.
It's all down to personal choice and preference. Your thread isn't about your 'sluggish G1'; You're asking us to convince you why you need a G1.
Nobody cares that you no longer want a G1. But don't make a new thread masquerading as a plea for help that is really about:
Any Takers. Who can refute my arguments.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

i hope you enjoy your seemingly faster (much more expensive, much less useful) iphone.
my personal experience has been different, but you seem like the kind of person who wouldn't be convinced even with hard evidence.

Alright. Well. I don't benchmark or use "hard evidence" tests, I just go off the feel of things. Of course I know the iPhone is locking you into a Lot of things. But a jailbroken iPhone 3G / 3G S will be more fun app / mobile safari. And as far as a reason for keep the G1 I'm not looking for a reason. I've rooted the phone, used apps2sd 2 with an ext3 partition. Made sure data/data is in intmem etc. . . The Rom dev is great, but an iPhone is like having an SL500. Of course more gas, higher maintenance cost. G1 is like having a nice truck that's a hybrid. It just doesn't feel as sexy. It can do Way more, but its a truck.
I'm cool with hearing other reasons why the G1 isn't sluggish etc. I'll listen, but I was just posting this out of my frustration of a slower browser and slower UI. I don't really know what the flame talk was about or me covering up intentions. These are just phones. But I think a jailbroken iPhone 3G beats out a rooted G1. Plus I'm not trying to ssh into my linux server with debian installed over hero.
Anyway, its just a conversation I wanted to spark with people who understand what I'm talking about. Not to mention the apps are a big plus too. And don't get me wrong, the g1 is good for the things it was built to address. The iPhone will just be more fun.

do you have all the newest and update firmware and radio installed?
your title is misleading.
also, only way to find out which one is better......... go and get both and use both and decided from there

I'm pretty sure I have the newest firmware. Haykuro's that was causing bricks on non PVT boards. I was using JF 1.51 ADP. I moved to cyanogen mod of JF. I moved on to hero, then google Ion rom. Oh and the sapphire rom. Ion rom was fastest, but iPhone's overall fell and touch is simply night and day. So is the browser. Steel was great before cupcake but it closes so much now its not even useable.
Oh yeah, radio is up to date too, hence the non bricked phone. Nevermind no 3G here in our area. I just want to hear others opinions before I drop 300 / plus a deposit for bad credit / and charging me for txt msg! But I'll have more apps.

The g1 does seem to get sluggish over time. I would try a wipe. That should restore the speed of the phone.
However, there's no getting around the performance of the iphone as it supports 2d hardware acceleration. The g1 and android only does software rendering so its never going to be faster than the iphone until the google devs start supporting 2d hardware acceleration (g1 has a graphics chip so it should be possible).
I personally don't find the g1 very sluggish. Maybe its sluggish compared to the iphone (I don't know as I don't have one to compare with), but on its own, the g1's UI is quite snappy (i'm running cyanogen ROM).
larrygates said:
Not that I'm asking for help about the sluggishness, it's just that the G1 is just overall way more sluggish than my friends iPhone 3G. As in web pages load WAY faster (Wifi on both devices being used). The UI is way more snappy.
Do you have a lot widgets running or background tasks? All those take up memory and cpu cycles which will end up slowing down the phone a lot.
And I understand the trade offs I'd get with an iPhone. No true multitasking or alerts from apps (like twitter email etc. . .) No Gmail push (I think) no Google Cal sync over the air, or contact sync OTA. All these things are great, but I dunno, I think I'm going to crossover into iPhone land soon. The G1 just became a let down for me after using it closely for about 6 months. And using other peoples iPhones on and off.
This is just a rant. And mostly I'm talking about browser load speeds and UI. It would be nice if Google maps oriented the direction we're facing since it has a compass. But the new update is moving in the right direction. Love the walking directions. But I think I'm gonna move on to 1 app at a time, Draconian app approval, HYPE land, release 5 HW revisions before making a new product, iPhone land.
Any Takers. Who can refute my arguments. I'm using Google Ion ROM also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Here's my take:
I love the iphone ! I think it's the best comsumer phone (and i'm not kidding). The 1 app at a time applies to G1 too (almost): try playing Mafia then going to the browser (or another game) and back... Good luck with that !
Now the reason i use the G1 is that i NEED to be connected to yahoo messenger, i NEED to have my tweets as soon as they come (i use twitter for work). And i NEED a hardware keyboard. And i NEED weather on a widget, and background downloading of RSS feeds (NewsRob). And i NEED better integration between apps (i'll explain).
When Push notifications come to the iphone, things are going to change. It will be very close to what i have now on my G1. The only things missing would be the RSS thing and the HW keyboard.
About the integration: I can click share on a picture, and it will list the programs that can do something with it (like Twidroid). I really like this, and there are more examples.
Now, what you have to ask yourself is: What do YOU need ? When you know that, you'll know what you have to choose.
Bah, long post. I hate long posts.

Do you find the G1 UI significantly more sluggish than the iphone?
RPG0 said:
Here's my take:
I love the iphone ! I think it's the best comsumer phone (and i'm not kidding). The 1 app at a time applies to G1 too (almost): try playing Mafia then going to the browser (or another game) and back... Good luck with that !
Now the reason i use the G1 is that i NEED to be connected to yahoo messenger, i NEED to have my tweets as soon as they come (i use twitter for work). And i NEED a hardware keyboard. And i NEED weather on a widget, and background downloading of RSS feeds (NewsRob). And i NEED better integration between apps (i'll explain).
When Push notifications come to the iphone, things are going to change. It will be very close to what i have now on my G1. The only things missing would be the RSS thing and the HW keyboard.
About the integration: I can click share on a picture, and it will list the programs that can do something with it (like Twidroid). I really like this, and there are more examples.
Now, what you have to ask yourself is: What do YOU need ? When you know that, you'll know what you have to choose.
Bah, long post. I hate long posts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

dwang said:
Do you find the G1 UI significantly more sluggish than the iphone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If i were to rate UIs of phones (based ONLY on smoothness) i would give the iphone an 9/10 and the G1 a 8/10.
The thing is... actually the difference mostly comes from the touchscreen sensitivity. There are two bad things about the G1 here:
SPOILER ALERT: After reading you might notice new bad things about your G1...
1. Try touching the screen with a small part of your finger (the very tip) and you'll see it won't register. This happens more in real life than you would think...
2. Try opening the notification bar SLOWLY and you'll see it shakes as you move your finger. If you stop mid-way it will shake most of the time... Actually any list will shake if you drag it and then stop... kinda cheap.
3. The sides of the screen in portrait have a "snap" zone. Try moving an icon to one side, and it will stop folowing your finger at a moment, then it will snap to the border. (On my phone this only happens on the right side. On the left side it's worse. I CAN'T register touch on the edge there. It's a nightmare to move an icon to a screen to the left.).
I knew HTC was bad news when i dug deeper into my Kaiser.
So.. G1 actually 7/10... Android on a good phone 8-8.5/10.

Yes this is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not very in the know, but I do know how to follow directions and root phones. But YES the missing HW acceleration is felt when I go from iPhone to G1. It's unsettling. But . . .
dwang said:
The g1 does seem to get sluggish over time. I would try a wipe. That should restore the speed of the phone.
However, there's no getting around the performance of the iphone as it supports 2d hardware acceleration. The g1 and android only does software rendering so its never going to be faster than the iphone until the google devs start supporting 2d hardware acceleration (g1 has a graphics chip so it should be possible).
I personally don't find the g1 very sluggish. Maybe its sluggish compared to the iphone (I don't know as I don't have one to compare with), but on its own, the g1's UI is quite snappy (i'm running cyanogen ROM).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You gave pretty much all the reasons I waited for the G1 and went with it. I knew it acted more like a computer and actually integrated different api's into 1 whole (if you will). Or let the app devs get to the api's. But I like having my feeds come to me without thinking, I like twitter updates, I love gmail being like my old blackberry exchange solution. I WISH live maps or mesh or whatever it's called for Windows Mobile 6.1 would come to android. Someone asked about widgets etc. I disabled all widgets, actually I wiped to a clean Ion Rom that isn't running anything in the background but essentials. It's the HW accel I'm thinking, and the sensitivity of the touch screen. It's great on the iPHone. These were the replies I was looking for. Just something to chomp on before I make any moves. Cause I'm seriously thinking about making that move. I'll lose a lot though. But I'll gain a lot back.
Oh yeah, how come maps on the G1 doesn't auto orient like the iPhone does now. We have a compass, and the new maps is better, at least it shows the direction, but I have to rotate the phone though.
RPG0 said:
Here's my take:
I love the iphone ! I think it's the best comsumer phone (and i'm not kidding). The 1 app at a time applies to G1 too (almost): try playing Mafia then going to the browser (or another game) and back... Good luck with that !
Now the reason i use the G1 is that i NEED to be connected to yahoo messenger, i NEED to have my tweets as soon as they come (i use twitter for work). And i NEED a hardware keyboard. And i NEED weather on a widget, and background downloading of RSS feeds (NewsRob). And i NEED better integration between apps (i'll explain).
When Push notifications come to the iphone, things are going to change. It will be very close to what i have now on my G1. The only things missing would be the RSS thing and the HW keyboard.
About the integration: I can click share on a picture, and it will list the programs that can do something with it (like Twidroid). I really like this, and there are more examples.
Now, what you have to ask yourself is: What do YOU need ? When you know that, you'll know what you have to choose.
Bah, long post. I hate long posts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

The iphone 3gs does look pretty great, but I'm not switching from tmobile to att just for the iphone. There's going to be some nice android phones coming down the line, hopefully with upgraded cpu and memory to match the pre and 3gs. That should narrow the performance differences significantly. And hopefully android 2.0 (donut) finally implements 2d hardware acceleration.
larrygates said:
Yes this is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not very in the know, but I do know how to follow directions and root phones. But YES the missing HW acceleration is felt when I go from iPhone to G1. It's unsettling. But . . .
You gave pretty much all the reasons I waited for the G1 and went with it. I knew it acted more like a computer and actually integrated different api's into 1 whole (if you will). Or let the app devs get to the api's. But I like having my feeds come to me without thinking, I like twitter updates, I love gmail being like my old blackberry exchange solution. I WISH live maps or mesh or whatever it's called for Windows Mobile 6.1 would come to android. Someone asked about widgets etc. I disabled all widgets, actually I wiped to a clean Ion Rom that isn't running anything in the background but essentials. It's the HW accel I'm thinking, and the sensitivity of the touch screen. It's great on the iPHone. These were the replies I was looking for. Just something to chomp on before I make any moves. Cause I'm seriously thinking about making that move. I'll lose a lot though. But I'll gain a lot back.
Oh yeah, how come maps on the G1 doesn't auto orient like the iPhone does now. We have a compass, and the new maps is better, at least it shows the direction, but I have to rotate the phone though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

See I'm worried about that. Why wouldn't android have he hw accel. I'm using an iPhone now to post this. Hw key is good, but this iPhone is very nice. I'll try to hold out and see. But I'll take it up the a!! Yeah I'm getting one. A 3G S.
dwang said:
The iphone 3gs does look pretty great, but I'm not switching from tmobile to att just for the iphone. There's going to be some nice android phones coming down the line, hopefully with upgraded cpu and memory to match the pre and 3gs. That should narrow the performance differences significantly. And hopefully android 2.0 (donut) finally implements 2d hardware acceleration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

larrygates said:
See I'm worried about that. Why wouldn't android have he hw accel. I'm using an iPhone now to post this. Hw key is good, but this iPhone is very nice. I'll try to hold out and see. But I'll take it up the a!! Yeah I'm getting one. A 3G S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you laid out the talking points pretty well in your first post (and frankly aside from multitasking, iPhone OS 3.0 has fixed a lot deficiencies), so if you're set on an iPhone, just go for it.
Frankly, if having used a G1 for a while you are still considering an iPhone, then the iPhone is probably a better product for you. Reasons such as avoiding being locked into Apple's closed ecosystem probably weren't ever a factor for you at all.

Hey thanks for the civil post. The last thing you said is a hard one along with at&t. Apple is pretty slick with marketing, and they're hardware upgrades really screw you. Plus I think one of the guys here said something about dual core chips in phones next year.
About the Eco system hopefully jailbreaking side steps a lot of the walls on the phone. We'll see. I need to wait some things out and see how the dev team comes along. Someone said I should look into the pre, but I wonder if its similar to the G1.
jashsu said:
Well you laid out the talking points pretty well in your first post (and frankly aside from multitasking, iPhone OS 3.0 has fixed a lot deficiencies), so if you're set on an iPhone, just go for it.
Frankly, if having used a G1 for a while you are still considering an iPhone, then the iPhone is probably a better product for you. Reasons such as avoiding being locked into Apple's closed ecosystem probably weren't ever a factor for you at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Bah. This is only personal preference nonsense. Go get the iphone if ur tired of the g1.

larrygates said:
Hey thanks for the civil post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because i'm using and love the G1 doesn't mean the iPhone is a bad phone. I really don't have time to spend writing up a long convincing article why you should stay with the G1, let alone flame-coat it.
The last thing you said is a hard one along with at&t. Apple is pretty slick with marketing, and they're hardware upgrades really screw you. Plus I think one of the guys here said something about dual core chips in phones next year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All hardware obsoletes, iPhone or otherwise. It's just a fact of tech life. If you constantly wait for the better hardware upgrade then you will never have any hardware at all.
About the Eco system hopefully jailbreaking side steps a lot of the walls on the phone. We'll see. I need to wait some things out and see how the dev team comes along. Someone said I should look into the pre, but I wonder if its similar to the G1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously the phone is better in some respects than others. But for example it will only sync with iTunes. I will never install iTunes or Quicktime ever again because they are poorly written pieces of spyware crap. Also, the cloud sync clearly prefers Mobile Me as the primary service. Remember when Mobile Me launched? It was a pile of cowpie. Even Apple admitted this.
The iPhone has a sleek interface and a powerful advertising machine behind it. That's why it and the iPod are such popular devices among consumers. However, being that I am an engineer by trade, I'm not so easily swayed by Apple's glitzy advertising. In that respect, iPhone's deficiencies, past and present come into stark contrast. For example, the inability to multitask userapps is just ridiculous. I actually want to receive my emails and instant messages in realtime, without having to open the Google App. Some people say "just use SMS", which opens up a whole new bag of rant about how SMS is the most ridiculous ripoff scheme ever...

One thing I want to mention regarding sluggishness is if u are running one of those third party home apps like dxtop or ahome, I would try uninstalling those and see if your sluggishness goes away. Also, badly written widgets can cause slowdowns as well. The g1 isn't as fast as the 3g but it really isn't that slow. Especially if u are running ion at 528mhz or cyanogens rom.

jashsu said:
Just because i'm using and love the G1 doesn't mean the iPhone is a bad phone. I really don't have time to spend writing up a long convincing article why you should stay with the G1, let alone flame-coat it.
All hardware obsoletes, iPhone or otherwise. It's just a fact of tech life. If you constantly wait for the better hardware upgrade then you will never have any hardware at all.
Obviously the phone is better in some respects than others. But for example it will only sync with iTunes. I will never install iTunes or Quicktime ever again because they are poorly written pieces of spyware crap. Also, the cloud sync clearly prefers Mobile Me as the primary service. Remember when Mobile Me launched? It was a pile of cowpie. Even Apple admitted this.
The iPhone has a sleek interface and a powerful advertising machine behind it. That's why it and the iPod are such popular devices among consumers. However, being that I am an engineer by trade, I'm not so easily swayed by Apple's glitzy advertising. In that respect, iPhone's deficiencies, past and present come into stark contrast. For example, the inability to multitask userapps is just ridiculous. I actually want to receive my emails and instant messages in realtime, without having to open the Google App. Some people say "just use SMS", which opens up a whole new bag of rant about how SMS is the most ridiculous ripoff scheme ever...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Out of curiosity, how is SMS the most ridiculous ripoff scheme ever?
Also, a friend of mine has a 3.0 beta developer firmware of the iPhone which allows multitasking. I myself found a cheap 4gb iPhone on Craigslist and am planning to unlock it for (most likely) a backup phone or business phone, when I've seen both phones and compared for about a week I'll post my findings here.
I was noticing the same sluggishness and such with the G1. You have to remember that, if you're like most users on the forum here, you -are- using an unsupported version of the phone, and it's not working how it's supposed to and how the provider intended for it to be used. Someone else mentioned this, but third-party apps also contribute to that. Depending on what you use, some apps could constantly be taking up extra memory and make your use of the G1 more of a chore, because of the time it takes to open up even a browser.
Anyway, to OP: You could just do what I did. Instead of spending $300 on a new iPhone that you have to dump out another extra $x-amount for new service at AT&Suck, why not just buy a used one on Craigslist or eBay and unlock it? Then you can use it with your current T-Mobile service and not have a lot of extra loss. You don't even need to get rid of your G1, just use one or the other as a backup or something.

my Review (or rant if you will)

hmm where do i even begin.........
This phone is actually not bad from a hardware standpoint, its fingerprint resistant (rubberized coating) with a responsive touch screen.
-CPU is very fast, never hangs up or goes jittery, all the animations are very smooth
-the keyboard has good feed back, you know for sure if a key is pressed or not, though it feels kind of cheap, as
-long as it holds up to my crazy texting for 2 years ill be happy.
-shift and function keys just piss me off, they are not in a very convenient location nor are they easy to find in
the dark, they don't illuminate, which leads me to my next point.
-the keyboard is not evenly lit, the right side has some buttons half dark however... with keys that require the function button to be pressed, you can also press and hold the button to use the special character like onscreen HTC keyboards
-the camera sucks, but then again i think all cell phone cmos cameras are junk. i also cant turn off the freaking camera sound, its so loud and annoying.
okay now to the software... here we go
we'll begin with the things that are right...
-animations are super smooth and very aesthetically pleasing, i would even venture to say its better than android and the iphone animations
-maps is amazingly fast and fluid, when you zoom into the max position it will auto change to sat view
-app store isnt bad, lots of cool free apps already (only time will fix this properly)
Onto the bad......
so many things are missing from the basic OS itself its ridiculous! its unusable out of the box..
- battery %, please dont use a retarded batter icon that doesn't tell me anything, not even the iphone is this crippled
- cant connect to hidden networks, this make the device totally useless as alot of companies choose to hide the SSID, i dont CARE if it doesn't add another layer of security, you hide it so guests connect to the public shown SSID and employees connect to the hidden.
- cant connect to exchange, this is completely unacceptable, i cannot type in a space on this device to connect, alot of companies use First Space Last as the user name for simplicity, short names or garbled user names dont identify a user as easily. when setting up your exchange connectivity, space is disabled.
- after getting the network admin to change my user name (ridiculous, i really shouldn't have to do that), i got connected only to find i cant sync text messages or Tasks, now this phone is as useless as android and the iphone. i have a ton of info in tasks that i need, and the SMS sync was for ease of use, in outlook 2010 i can send and receive text msgs right from the email window so i dont have to take my phone out.
- no file browser, we arent retarded apple users, why is this missing?
- bluetooth is completely crippled like the iphone, windows mobile 5 had more functionality! (cant send files, cant receive anything, cant do ****)
- proprietary drivers, wtf is this? again, crippled like the iphone doesnt show up as a removable drive, i cant access this phone on other computers (android and WM6.5 asks you if you want to charge, show up as flash drive, act as modem, etc)
as it stands now, i cant replace my sony X1 with this trash, basic functionality is GONE, i guess we can thank apple for making everyone retarded. this OS was obviously WAAAY too rushed.

In fairness, WP7 is not aimed at the business market, WP6.5 will continue I believe for precisely that reason.
It's a very different take on the OS that we're used to. They're looking to make it as user friendly as possible and quick and intuative to navigate.
Personally I think they've done a great job, and I'm a hardcore WM5,6,6.5 user. This is NOT a techy phone - hence why a lot of stuff is locked down, because 95% of users would have no idea of all the options you have for say bluetooth in WM6.5.
I really like what they've done with WP7, it's a new direction, and there are bound to be niggling bugs and features that aren't yet included, they've written this from the ground up so it's always going to take time to add features. I got one for my wife at the weekend, and she absolutely loves it - coming from an HTC Hero on Android 2.1 which she liked the apps and stuff, but hated the fiddliness of it all. Now she has what she loved without what she hated.
From your review above, it's clear that WP7 is not the kind of OS you want, but that doesn't mean it's bad.

rob_p said:
In fairness, WP7 is not aimed at the business market, WP6.5 will continue I believe for precisely that reason.
It's a very different take on the OS that we're used to. They're looking to make it as user friendly as possible and quick and intuative to navigate.
Personally I think they've done a great job, and I'm a hardcore WM5,6,6.5 user. This is NOT a techy phone - hence why a lot of stuff is locked down, because 95% of users would have no idea of all the options you have for say bluetooth in WM6.5.
I really like what they've done with WP7, it's a new direction, and there are bound to be niggling bugs and features that aren't yet included, they've written this from the ground up so it's always going to take time to add features. I got one for my wife at the weekend, and she absolutely loves it - coming from an HTC Hero on Android 2.1 which she liked the apps and stuff, but hated the fiddliness of it all. Now she has what she loved without what she hated.
From your review above, it's clear that WP7 is not the kind of OS you want, but that doesn't mean it's bad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah i get what your saying and i think that this is a REAL competitor to the iphone, i am still using the LG phone and for the first time in 3 or so years i used the zune software again (had an original zune) and WOW, its a HUGE freaking change from what it was before, the animations and downloaded content is far better than itunes.
its pretty painless for a regular user to put music and videos on, any videos seen are auto trans coded and thrown on the phone, i honestly prefer the phone to be able to play any file that is dragged and dropped over
the smoothness of the UI is actaully what i wanted in a windows mobile phone with all the features. if microsoft can add the things WM6.5 could do, im sold, even if i have to use the zune software to transcode.

How did yall get a Quantum already?
Could you post a pic and movie example from the phone?
I'm holding out buying a new WP until I can play with all 3 in the store.. So far, every phone I have had has had a slide-out keyboard.. I have a Fuze now, so even with the Quantum's quirks it will still be a huge upgrade..

I just got back from the AT&T store where they had a Quantum on display. The phone seems smooth and fast, and the keyboard is great (I like it better than my Touch Pro’s keyboards). It is slightly longer and wider then the Touch Pro, and almost as thick. The screen is rather small, it is only 3.5” which I believe makes it the smallest of all the WP7 screens. I did pop off the battery cover and look what was there. The SIM card is easily assessable, but no signs of a hidden/covered micro SD card.

I've been waiting to play with the Quantum to make my decision on which phone to buy..
I have a broken Fuze now, so the 3.5" screen will seem huge to me..!
I'll check the store tomorrow and see if they have it..

I must agree with the first post as far as limitations are concerned, with one specific addition. I have to pay 14.99 in the Marketplace to get RDP functionality.
Okay, two additions: WTF is with the ringtones?! Please MS, please, please let me have a couple ringtones.
All I want for Chistmas is: RDP, a file manager, and ringtones.
(my exchange server works fine, and i'll have my sharepoint up in the week, so i'm good on that)

Hey,
can you please check the RAM on your C900 QUANTUM?
There is conflicting literature on this phone. Some sites say it has 256mb RAM and others say 512mb RAM.
Can you let me know what the actual phone says if there's a way to pull this information from the phone?
Thanks

pezius said:
I must agree with the first post as far as limitations are concerned, with one specific addition. I have to pay 14.99 in the Marketplace to get RDP functionality.
Okay, two additions: WTF is with the ringtones?! Please MS, please, please let me have a couple ringtones.
All I want for Chistmas is: RDP, a file manager, and ringtones.
(my exchange server works fine, and i'll have my sharepoint up in the week, so i'm good on that)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Quantum is supposed to arrive on Monday (from Amazon). I couldn't for the life of me figure out the right DataPlan from AT&T. I had one of their old school unlimited plans that let me do everything, but had to change over to get the new phone. I chose the DataPro 2GB Smartphone personal plan, and am worried I won't be able to setup my gmail to use Push Mail via activesync. Can you enlighten me on which plan you have? I'm afraid I may have to switch to the more pricey "Enterprise" plan to get this functionality.
Thanks In Advance,
Skorpyo

vst2010 said:
Hey,
can you please check the RAM on your C900 QUANTUM?
There is conflicting literature on this phone. Some sites say it has 256mb RAM and others say 512mb RAM.
Can you let me know what the actual phone says if there's a way to pull this information from the phone?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just picked mine up frm the ATT store. The outside of the box Def says 512mb of RAM.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

Well, my Quantum cam early and while it took some acclimating from my fuze running 6.5 the UI experience is fabulous. It definitely is a UI groomed for the average joe/jane rather than a power user. I'm bummed there's no file manager and that many of the customizations available in 6.X aren't in 7.
As for the quantum it is a great piece of hardware. The screen is beautiful, the build quality is great and the keyboard slide is solid. The keyboard is an adjustment for me. My fuze sported a 4 row 54 key keyboard while the quantum has a large button 4 row 38 key keyboard with separate fn/shift keys. Overall the keyboard is nice for fat finger guys like me though the space bar is a bit clunky.
so far I'm thrilled with the unit, and look forward to wider app support. Oh, and itd definitely 512/512 RAM/ROM.
Skorpyo

honestly one of the nicest feeling phones i've held in my hand ina loong time.. win phone 7 is a brand new thing.. so don't expect there not to be a few things that aren't quite rite.. but hey... this forum will straighten most of that out i'm sure... def glad i got this phone all the way around.

Skorpyo said:
My Quantum is supposed to arrive on Monday (from Amazon). I couldn't for the life of me figure out the right DataPlan from AT&T. I had one of their old school unlimited plans that let me do everything, but had to change over to get the new phone. I chose the DataPro 2GB Smartphone personal plan, and am worried I won't be able to setup my gmail to use Push Mail via activesync. Can you enlighten me on which plan you have? I'm afraid I may have to switch to the more pricey "Enterprise" plan to get this functionality.
Thanks In Advance,
Skorpyo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry for the derail. So you had AT&T's grandfathered unlimited plan and they wouldn't let you transfer it to a new phone when you renewed your contract?
If that is the case, it's utter bullcrap.
EDIT: I found the answer to my own question. If you have the unlimited data plan, it remains grandfathered in as long as you are upgrading laterally (smartphone to smartphone). It won't allow me to post the link to where I found it but the relevant solution ID is KB110282.

gillbell said:
Sorry for the derail. So you had AT&T's grandfathered unlimited plan and they wouldn't let you transfer it to a new phone when you renewed your contract?
If that is the case, it's utter bullcrap.
EDIT: I found the answer to my own question. If you have the unlimited data plan, it remains grandfathered in as long as you are upgrading laterally (smartphone to smartphone). It won't allow me to post the link to where I found it but the relevant solution ID is KB110282.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, to be honest I probably would've still changed to the new plan cause I've never gone over 900mb in the two years I've has it and the new plan was $60 a year cheaper. Not much, but in today day and age every penny counts.

Five Quantum Days
Today is day five with the new Quantum. The keyboard is great and the odd fn and shift keys are easy to get used to. IMHO, there is no question that the Quantum feels better in your hand than any of the other WPs. It is REALLY solid feeling!
I have flashed many custom ROMs on my Fuze and had to go through the eMail setup many times with varying levels of success. When you fire up a new WinPhone for the first time it asks for your ‘Live’ account, and it sets itself up flawlessly the first time.
My wife is just emerging from the stone age with a flip phone and I have her using the Quantum with her SIM card, trying to spur her interest. Every so often I hear "Cool" or she says "Sometimes I turn on the phone to look at the purple birds” (one of the lock screen wallpapers). She has a couple of favorite websites and she has them pinned to the bottom of the home screen and sometimes looks one up while we are driving. BIG step for her!
Most of our family has iPhones and she likes some of the iPhone apps. Apps are lacking on the WP platform and there are some real shortfalls in the 1.0 version of the OS, but Microsoft is serious about competing in the Smartphone arena and I am willing to give them a chance. The December issue of MaximumPC magazine surprisingly rated the new WP OS number one in the field of: Blackberry, iOS, Android and WP.
We should see the first update to the WP OS soon and that should give us some indication as to how serious MS is about keeping the old WinMo fans in the fold.

A Rant: Anroid, Get your Shiz Together!

This is what I type at 3 in the morning. Please read for a minute, I'll keep it short and get to the point. I feel NS owners should see this since they seem the most enthusiastic.
This is generally for Android as a whole, targeting Google. Wow, so it's been how many years since Android first came out? And what is the only other competitor in the market - oh right, iOS. iOS has been destroying the market with only one phone which rarely has any lag/bug/glitch issues, namely the 4S or the new 5 (minus the Maps).
The only reason Android has a large market share is due to the large number of phones at reasonable prices. That is all. There are only two competitors in this oligarchy, and one still can't do it right. Google engineers are apparently among the highest paid, yet they decide to constantly release updates which constantly has bugs. It is a pity, to look at many of you Android enthusiasts that are giving a lot of attention to Android development and are contributing to this world, when Google themselves is not treating you right, thus I feel that you are the reason that the brand is remaining strong. You guys have the capacity to overlook its bugs/lags and see what Android is there truly for. On the other hand, I doubt iOS users actually care about that topic since it is rarely seen.
Next, the phones. So we have like a thousand phones running Android from like 20 different manufacturers. What the..? Alright, phones that are aimed for a low budget do not count, but the Nexus devices that Google works on - they should be at least revolutionary. Google has to partner up with different manufacturers each time when creating the next Nexus? Talk about inconsistency, and inviting a lack of hardware acceleration with its software. Google can even build their own phones if they have to, but just get it right! I mean their latest phone, the Galaxy Nexus, is still not a stable phone (although I thought it would be). Samsung is actually holding it down and implementing their own stuff to create a good user experience (thus the success of the Galaxy line). Other than that, ALL other manufacturers are literally wasting money (but producing profits) by adopting Android and Google themselves are getting much more love than they should be getting.
Creating new updates and naming them after the alphabet and weird food names is quite cheesy. That's not the issue though, it creates hype by many users - the anxiety of waiting for the next update that will 'fix all problems' - but what happens? Promises are broken, and the software is bad once again. Like the JB update - turns out it's bad and many/most users tend to agree. So much for project butter haha. It's simply not worth it, not worth stressing or wasting time on it. I realize I am doing that by typing this post, but it needed to be done. People who are making money off of it - you're fine actually.
The message I am trying to get across is that Google's android software is not worth it, we all know it's bad, and Google seriously needs to get it right before everyone hops on the iBoat. There are actually multiple little things that I tried to get across in the post. That is all.

Cool story. Feel free to jump on the iOS wagon. I, for one, really like android.

I'm with android for the customization and freedom. I came from Windows Mobile where you could change anything you wanted and fell in love with flashing custom ROMS and even had a duel boot of WM6 and android 1.0 when I first came out (hated it back then, by the way.)
I bought an iPhone 3g when they came out and sold it by the next day. As you said, it was "flawless" as far as the operation of the OS, but when the OS imposes so much control over user input what do you expect? The iPhone tells you what you're allowed to do, it's not the user that defines what the phone can do.
After dropping my Tilt 2 flat on its face and tearing the ribbon for the screen, I hit the market for a new phone. Windows Mobile was still in the hundreds, but android was a cheaper alternative. I got a Samsung Moment and never looked back.
Maybe coming from Windows Mobile to android is why I don't have as many bug complaints. WM was mostly ALL bugs and glitches. That's not why I had the phone though - I had it for the features. Namely the ability to tether, which took android AND apple several releases to incorporate into their builds, but which was plug-n-play on every WM device I owned YEARS before. I also really enjoyed Windows Voice Command, better recognized as the Sync system in Ford vehicles. I could wear my bluetooth headset and make calls, open programs, listen to music and change songs all without having to touch the phone. Once again, it took apple and Google several editions to add useful voice commands to their systems.
I still miss remote desktop. I stopped having to store music and movies on my device because I could open a program and directly access every file on my home computer and stream anything to my phone screen.
So ultimately I'm with android for the freedom. The openness. The fact that they ALLOW outside developers to exist at all! It's the creativity found in the android community that has kept me, not the hope for a "fix all" update. Personally, the only problem I've ever had with my Android phones is the actual phone app itself. Delayed ringing and sometimes the inability to answer to even slide and answer the call due to screen freezing.
That's MY rant at 5 am lol
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda app-developers app

I'll have a Lamborghini Gallardo, Olivia Wilde and a cherry Coke, while we're at it (dreaming).

When you buy a new phone it should be completely yours not locked down by the manufacturer. If I want to brick I want to be able to do it.
If you really don't like it there a lot of rotten apple phones out there for you to buy.

anyway, I was on stock JB for a while, I haven't encountered all this **** your talking about. It could be faster, nicer, with more options but it is working quite well
Envoyé depuis mon Nexus S avec Tapatalk

Go get lost. Steve Job is waiting there to pay you for this iPhone advertisements in an android thread. You are required there not here. Lol....
Sent from my Nexus S

madd0g said:
I'll have a Lamborghini Gallardo, Olivia Wilde and a cherry Coke, while we're at it (dreaming).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Scratch that lambo make it an Aston Martin Vantage V12. Regarding the other two: Plenty of cherry coke around, but we're gonna have a problem with Olivia: I won't share, no crossing swords!

I love when people try to tell me how I should feel about the products I enjoy.

Logomotph said:
Cool story. Feel free to jump on the iOS wagon. I, for one, really like android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know right?
madd0g said:
I'll have a Lamborghini Gallardo, Olivia Wilde and a cherry Coke, while we're at it (dreaming).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can I get that with no cholesterol burger and fries?
p.pavljasevic said:
When you buy a new phone it should be completely yours not locked down by the manufacturer. If I want to brick I want to be able to do it.
If you really don't like it there a lot of rotten apple phones out there for you to buy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've said this before. I hate when companies wanna slap their branding all over my 4 to 600 dollar smartphone and load it up with their crap I am never gonna use.
styckx said:
I love when people try to tell me how I should feel about the products I enjoy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My best friend is a iPhone fanboy. I have to show him once a month why my Nexus S 4G is better then his iPhone 4s.

to each his own, i don't mind jb's quirkyness, it's also a matter of finding just the right rom/kernel combo... can't speak for stock JB.
aokp JB 4 + marmite 4.8.7 is doing quite nice, steady & haven't had weird reboots yet

I will admit that the Nexus S has a hard time with stock Jelly Bean. It pushes the NS basically to its limits in terms of hardware capability. That said, as a daily driver, it's still very, very usable. If you want to see Jelly Bean run like a f**king champ, run it on a Galaxy Nexus or Nexus 7. It's pretty amazing.

Okay I'm not favouring iOS or anything and no I'm not jumping on their wagon, and I am also not hating on Android's customization/community. I've had my Nexus S for almost 1.5 years now and I still believe it's not outdated (great camera, front-facing camera, good screen, good touch sensor)
I appreciate that Android lets its customers customize the phones more than Apple. But what about the 'majority' who don't root or install 3rd party keyboards, etc. and like to run stock? I for one am running stock and native since I believe it should give the best performance as it is made by the manufacturer. But I'm not getting that! There are the red flags going off.
Additionally, when I was referring to iOS, I mean to say mainly iPhone 4 and up. The iPhone 3 was quite bad (although still better than android at that point in time). But with iOS 5/6, sure it takes away user customization, but the majority does not anyway - they just use their phone for their intended purposes and yet experience difficulties? That's a no no. However, ONE thing I do enjoy is widgets over having iOS.

Plenty of people dont run stock as per your definition. Plenty of people use or at least tried different keyboards / launchers / messaging apps etc
Root is not required and installing those apps is no different then installing any other app like Pandora. They are also often editors choice and top selling / top free apps in the play store. People know about them and use them. You don't need a to be a hardcore user to know about and use them.
People actually do change up there apps all the time and on all platforms. Its like saying people with a iPhone shouldn't use instagram because the phone comes with a camera application out the box.
Bottom line is if the user has a option to try different apps they will. Especially if its easy for the average user to install like a normal app. Imagine for a second if winterboard was freely available in the app store and functioned the same way it does on a jail broken device. I'd bet within 24 hrs it would become the most popular app in the app store. Your argument just seems silly to me. People will and do change things are freely and easily changed

albundy2010 said:
Plenty of people dont run stock as per your definition. Plenty of people use or at least tried different keyboards / launchers / messaging apps etc
Root is not required and installing those apps is no different then installing any other app like Pandora. They are also often editors choice and top selling / top free apps in the play store. People know about them and use them. You don't need a to be a hardcore user to know about and use them.
People actually do change up there apps all the time and on all platforms. Its like saying people with a iPhone shouldn't use instagram because the phone comes with a camera application out the box.
Bottom line is if the user has a option to try different apps they will. Especially if its easy for the average user to install like a normal app. Imagine for a second if winterboard was freely available in the app store and functioned the same way it does on a jail broken device. I'd bet within 24 hrs it would become the most popular app in the app store. Your argument just seems silly to me. People will and do change things are freely and easily changed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wonderfully said.

Another tiny bit to add on to my previous point.
The focal point of apples marketing strategy used to be " there is a app for that". Of course this is after they decided to even include a store. Who can forget the air traffic controller getting the weather from his iPhone?
But this doesn't seem to apply to things apple thinks its users shouldn't change.

What are you going to use your nexus to do as you write it has a hard time using jelly bean? - I my self have not got complications - I think I have used jelly bean nearly from when it was free - and I for my part - find it fast and free from lack - it play film - I read a lot news on it - it is very nice to read ebooks - see tv - you name it - ok - I do not use it for play - as all play for me are more or less the same - but ells I injoy jelly bean on my nexus s
Sent from my Nexus S using xda app-developers app

albundy2010 said:
Plenty of people dont run stock as per your definition. Plenty of people use or at least tried different keyboards / launchers / messaging apps etc
Root is not required and installing those apps is no different then installing any other app like Pandora. They are also often editors choice and top selling / top free apps in the play store. People know about them and use them. You don't need a to be a hardcore user to know about and use them.
People actually do change up there apps all the time and on all platforms. Its like saying people with a iPhone shouldn't use instagram because the phone comes with a camera application out the box.
Bottom line is if the user has a option to try different apps they will. Especially if its easy for the average user to install like a normal app. Imagine for a second if winterboard was freely available in the app store and functioned the same way it does on a jail broken device. I'd bet within 24 hrs it would become the most popular app in the app store. Your argument just seems silly to me. People will and do change things are freely and easily changed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't understand, you're going off on apps when I am not talking about customization. I am just talking about the performance of the phone and the bugs it has. Let me be specific - as I unlock my phone, i swipe through home screens = lag. I open my camera, it takes a while at times = lag. I scroll through a list, and it lags on me. Even though it is minuscule Google needs to clean it up, since I never see it on an iOS device which is a fair comparison as it is the leading competitor.
I am not talking about apps or anything, I think we and everyone has already established that it has more customization. I know most users have 'tried' some customizable app that is not available to iOS but that is no excuse for the actual performance bugs it has. I don't play games (like rarely maybe) on the phone and don't have a huge load of apps installed either. Things just aren't nifty..and it is taking them years to get it right but they'd rather focus on other feature additions which also work poorly.

You are the one who brought up that entire what about the majority of the people out there that don't run third party keyboards etc.
You brought it up. I said it was rubbish.
Android has always been laggy compared to iOS. Apple did a good job with that from the beginning.
The majority of your op is simply not worthy of responding to. Actually I re read it just now and I consider it all entirely flame bait/ trolling. You joined the forum 3 days prior to that as well. Not bothering with that type of silly debate/flaming.
Your 2nd post in the thread actually had something I felt was worth giving a legit response to.

It can be due to Google not paying enough attention to this device, however, I urge you to try new phones like the Nexus and this upcoming LG Nexus. For me, Jelly Bean have been smooth all the way through. Lag is inevitable on this device due to its old single core cpu.
We are atleast fortunate to retain nearly all the features from the latest Android version, Apple withheld features from old phones on purpose so you have to buy their newest and most expensive device.