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I know you guys mostly work with htc-built phones, and tis forum has been a huge resource in modding my Xperia.
However, in the search of learning more WinCE i have now bought myself a meizu M8 and i am extremely impressed with the performance and looks of it.
Somethings been irritating me though; most of the apps for the meizu are cross-platform or customized specifically for it. This far i havent seen many WinMo apps customized for the meizu, and people keep saying it cant be done, since its a different os..
But WinMo has a WinCE core, and thus porting any WinMo app shouldnt be too hard unless it contains very much hardware-specific code.
So i figured i'd come here for help, since you guys are no doubt the masters of this domain.
Please! Any one who has tips, useful links, working examples or any info concerning Conversion of apps from WinMO to CE, POST HERE!
Any help is appreciated
*Edit* I dont mean this thread to be limited to Meizu or any other device, it is about the two operating systems.
WinCE is only the core.
Windows Mobile has many addons to WinCE core and it tightly used by most applications. For example, whole phone part and shell is property of WM.
I didn't see Meizu, but as far as i heard it uses WinCE6 which is far better than amy current WMs in terms of memory and other resources management.
While MS claims that most applications for WinCE5 should work under WinCE6, in real life it's not so true. So, even some incompatibilities beteen 5 and 6 add problems to use WM apps.
I beleive, software developers for Meizu should add many proprietary frameworks to make PhoneOS from WinCE60.
Meizu should have its own separate community definitely. Something can be shared with WM, but not much, actually.
does the gpu of hd2 is powerful enough to handle directx 9 announced as requirement for wp7
I was wondering the same thing the other day and couldn't find any official spec sheets. I asked over in one of the threads in the WP7s forums and I got the idea that OpenGL ES 2.0 was supported, which was 'basically the same.'
does any one know any useful info
http://brew.qualcomm.com/brew_bnry/pdf/brew_2007/Tech-303_Ligon.pdf
See page 15 for the best tech specs I've seen on the snapdragon / z430 / ATI LT. Still very light on details but claims direct3d sm3 support.
For that specific chipset (MSM7850) they claim DX9 support on page 31.
Their old chip (7500) supports DX7.
Since that was 2007, we can presume they've maintained similar compatibility in their newer (8250) chipset, yes?
Missed that bit, now all we need is a driver </sarcasm> for the humour impaired.
[sarcasm]obviously MS is aiming really high this time..
DX9 compatible portable devices, that use huge amounts of power so they can do what?
render a load of bloody text!
whoopppeee !
[/sarcasm]
so tje final answer is that hd2 gpu is enough for directx 9 or what?
The only correct answer to anything around here is, that noone knows nothing at all!
We can't run DX9 on WMPS7 so what ever?!
Before everyone freaks out, about fckn WMPS7, why not wait until you really see something?
Actually all the previews by microsoft were pretty ****ty! The phones worked pretty slow, I dont like that "hub" thing, and they are limited to the ground!
Thats what I would call "YaI" -> Yet another Iphone...
I'm loving WM6 and the only OS I'll be switching to, if WM6 dies (what i dont think, cuz there are more programmers who like WM6) will be android, but not another limited bull**** os
VisualD said:
http://brew.qualcomm.com/brew_bnry/pdf/brew_2007/Tech-303_Ligon.pdf
See page 15 for the best tech specs I've seen on the snapdragon / z430 / ATI LT. Still very light on details but claims direct3d sm3 support.
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after reading i think it supports it
Today at Build Microsoft announced that Windows 8 would launch with ARM support. Does this mean someone could potentially port it for the Iconia to be used in those times when a Window based software is needed but neither PC nor VLC is unavailable?
Please save "why would you want to use Windows" comments. This is a mature developer website, send those comments to Engadget.
brady.wassam said:
Today at Build Microsoft announced that Windows 8 would launch with ARM support. Does this mean someone could potentially port it for the Iconia to be used in those times when a Window based software is needed but neither PC nor VLC is unavailable?
Please save "why would you want to use Windows" comments. This is a mature developer website, send those comments to Engadget.
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This being a "mature developer website" has a search function and q&a section. Both would lead you to this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1259742
Anyway, only time will tell if win8 will be ported to the iconia (or any other android tablet). I haven't heard of wp7 being ported to an android phone, so I wouldn't bet on it. Still I can see the potential in it and would gladly try it (especially if it can be made as dual-boot).
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium App
Downloaded and installed the "Developers Preview" of Win 8 last night. Remember this is a pre-beta release, and for certain it's in it's infancy relatively speaking. As of this moment in time, Android has a much smoother interface for touch. Win 8 still feels a bit sticky for lack of a better word. I installed it on my HP Touchsmart TM2 2150 US laptop (core i3 with 8Gb ram), so it's not exactly a slouch in terms of hardware. It's a total touch screen laptop that has a screen that folds down onto the keyboard to create a tablet. As of this moment, Win 7 has a much better touch screen experience, but I fully expect that to change as the builds mature.
There are very few apps that come with it (28 I believe), and no app store as of yet obviously.
I read last night that typical Windows apps will not run on the ARM version of Win 8, and that MS is going to do it's best to prevent side loading of apps on the ARM version to keep people purchasing apps, instead of loading them from a USB stick or SD card, but that is just rumor as of right now.
Long story short, you're not missing much yet.
tkolev said:
only time will tell if win8 will be ported to the iconia
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I appreciate this is in the A500 forum, but the Iconia also comes in a W500 variant which does indeed run Win8:
http://youtu.be/_CNQVk7nok0
twisticles said:
I appreciate this is in the A500 forum, but the Iconia also comes in a W500 variant which does indeed run Win8
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Some of us already have an a500. No need to bring up another piece of hardware. "Yeah your Honda s2000 can fit a Corvette engine, but why not get a Corvette instead"
Sent from my A500 using xda premium
I don't think Microsoft will be releasing a beta for ARM chips and we will see Windows 8 run on ARM only during retail. After that XDA will not port Windows 8 simply because it would be considered illegal.
twisticles said:
I appreciate this is in the A500 forum, but the Iconia also comes in a W500 variant which does indeed run Win8:
http://youtu.be/_CNQVk7nok0
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The OP was asking about the ARM version of win8, so I seriously doubt that it is about the w500.
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium App
I installed Windows 8 on my pc a few hours ago. It is very smooth! But my DVD burner doesn't work... Anyway, I would love to see it on the A500.
Here's a preview of Win 8 tablets. Acer's is running an AMD chip instead of a Tegra:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4811/windows-8-tablets-running-on-ti-qualcomm-nvidia-amd-intel-silicon
Windows 8
Windows 8 *might* just support ARM. Everyone on the net is talking about it but no one is really sure. But as for now if you want something similar to Windows 8 there's always WinCE7 :-D Cheers.
masands said:
I don't think Microsoft will be releasing a beta for ARM chips and we will see Windows 8 run on ARM only during retail. After that XDA will not port Windows 8 simply because it would be considered illegal.
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Look at HTC HD2, illegal?! I think no retail arm based version. No retail maybe dev can port. Maybe it is hard to port and that is the be ass.
emo-dudes said:
Windows 8 *might* just support ARM. Everyone on the net is talking about it but no one is really sure. But as for now if you want something similar to Windows 8 there's always WinCE7 :-D Cheers.
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There's no "might" about it. Microsoft confirmed ages ago that there WILL be an ARM version of Windows 8, and recently clarified that it will NOT run native x86 applications. It's conjectured that that .NET applications should run with either minimal changes, or straight off the bat.
It's also been demoed running on Tegra 3 hardware.
FloatingFatMan said:
There's no "might" about it. Microsoft confirmed ages ago that there WILL be an ARM version of Windows 8, and recently clarified that it will NOT run native x86 applications. It's conjectured that that .NET applications should run with either minimal changes, or straight off the bat.
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Pure .NET applications should run just fine as long as they're using the same .NET framework as W8 does, but Microsoft is encouraging devs to use HTML5 for anything simple enough. They're aiming for HTML5 support to be top-notch and W8 and to be all-encompassing.
And yes, I concur with FloatingFatMan: why do people even think an ARM W8 would be able to run x86 binaries? That's just plain stupid. ARM applications will run on ARM W8, x86 applications will run on x86 W8, that's that.
WereCatf said:
Pure .NET applications should run just fine as long as they're using the same .NET framework as W8 does, but Microsoft is encouraging devs to use HTML5 for anything simple enough. They're aiming for HTML5 support to be top-notch and W8 and to be all-encompassing.
And yes, I concur with FloatingFatMan: why do people even think an ARM W8 would be able to run x86 binaries? That's just plain stupid. ARM applications will run on ARM W8, x86 applications will run on x86 W8, that's that.
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There was some rumour that Ms would my providing some transcoding layers as part of the ARM kernel, much like Apple did with the first x86 versions of OSX, but that would be horrendously slow and open the ARM platform to x86 malware.
Pure .NET apps SHOULD run fine, unless MS ship the compact framework instead of the full one. As for HTML5... URGH! (I'm a C# programmer, and after being shafted by MS over first WPF and now Silverlight, they can blow HTML5 out their asses! )
FloatingFatMan said:
There was some rumour that Ms would my providing some transcoding layers as part of the ARM kernel
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I know there was such a rumour, but anyone with half a braincell should've realized that it was just wishful thinking from people who don't know what they're talking about.
ARM devices are first and foremost mobile devices so an emulation layer would eat horribly on the battery. Not to mention that I am not aware of a single ARM processor sporting any kind of hardware virtualization features or transcoding mechanisms, so the performance would be really poor, too.
And if Microsoft did make such an emulation layer it would be Microsoft that would get all the blame for horribly low battery-life and poor performance because people wouldn't understand the underlying problem. Microsoft saves themselves a lot bad PR just by avoiding the whole thing altogether.
Pure .NET apps SHOULD run fine, unless MS ship the compact framework instead of the full one. As for HTML5... URGH! (I'm a C# programmer, and after being shafted by MS over first WPF and now Silverlight, they can blow HTML5 out their asses! )
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They're already churning lawyers at full speed from their arses, there's no more capacity for HTML5 there, too.
Yo, so I installed the windows phone 8 SDK today, only to figure out that most computers in this world will not run this SDK's emulator.
You will need in an i3 or better CPU from intel or equivalent from AMD (aka latest generation) to run the emulator.
You also have to run this emulator on windows 8 x64 (yep, it HAS to be x64, otherwise it won't work). This, by itself, asks for at least 4 GB of RAM to run the system at a decent speed, also forces you to upgrade to windows 8 (i got it for free due to msdn) and to get Visual Studio 12.
This is, in my opinion, a terrible move from microsoft.
Not everybody has CPUs that have all the requirements. In fact, not even all the newest CPUs have this requirement (Second Level Address Translation it is called). This, automatically, makes developers like me either:
get a new PC
Get a windows phone 8 device.
Luckily for me i have a fairly new laptop, which has an i3 CPU capable to run this stupid emulator.
On top of that, there comes the non-backward compatibility from wp8 to wp7.5 apps. Applications compiled for windows phone 8 SDK will not work on Windows phone 7.5, unless you make another project for 7.5, compile it as dll and reference it from your 8 app. This is kinda overkill.
Windows phone 8 will probably bring in a lot of users, but for developers, it is a blow to the head. I bet windows phone 8 submissions will be very, very low in the next 1 to 2 years.
So, is microsoft risking a bit too much with the switch from 7.5 to 8? On top of all the development slaughter, there's the non-upgradable old devices...
Good question , but it's been shockingly quiet in here. One would think that after a new launch the forum would be jumping with activity.
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vetvito said:
Good question , but it's been shockingly quiet in here. One would think that after a new launch the forum would be jumping with activity.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Well, to be honest, I think XDA isn't a good place for MS/WP anymore and I guess most of them know that. Just look at the front page, not even a single article/news about the Windows (Phone) 8 launch events. It's just android. Even the forum sections for the HTC 8X/S and Samsung ATIV S are missing whereas all the new Google devices have been added shortly after their announcement. So you see, even XDAdev isn't really well after Windows Phone at all.
morpheuszg said:
Well, to be honest, I think XDA isn't a good place for MS/WP anymore ....So you see, even XDAdev isn't really well after Windows Phone at all.
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so, what forums do wp dev's hang out ?
Are there any lol? I saw about 6 new apps, and one of them (Pandora) won't be out until sometime in 2013!
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
MSDN forums for example or prior to launch those who were part of the developer preview program had a closed discussion forum on Microsoft Connect, die to the NDA it was not allowed to discuss the information publicly.
On the CPU requirements - yes it sucks and there are other issues with the Emulator like missing 3d acceleration die to the fact it uses HyperV which does not have that capability. Still I would not suggest for people to develop for any platform without being able to test on a real device. This will be possible even without the Emulator.
I disagree with your assumption that we won't see Apps for WP8. Devs who write software for Windows 8 also need a Windows 8 installation, so people who think of porting those Apps will most likely have the infrastructure in place already. For higher profile the costs of a development machine would not be that problematic and C++ as well as middleware support for many gaming engines will make for a lot easier porting of existing Games from other platforms.
The people for which these changes really suck are student developers lile you and me. Only my Windows tablet currently supports the Emulator (Core i5). But still it is a lot nicer then the situation with the Android Emulator in my experience. The later is running to slow for anything iseful on my Core 2 Quad Desktop so I have to use the device for debugging anyway. Additionally only the WP Emulators have Multi-Touch support so I can test those features without deploying to the device.
Concerning XDAs, it has always been more about hacking and tinkering on the system level then user software development. Given that Android due to it's Open Source nature allows for a lot more in that regard it takes no wonder that there is a lot more going on with those than witj WP. Also market share and number of devoces makes for a difference as well.
vetvito said:
Good question , but it's been shockingly quiet in here. One would think that after a new launch the forum would be jumping with activity.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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All in all WP8 announcement was not that good...
also, they didn't release the SDK for us devs in order to build nice apps ready to be distributed for new win8 devices...Making us wait for months like if winphone had killer features hidden..and then it was the same old stuff so... i'm also considering to jump the android ship...
StevieBallz said:
MSDN forums for example or prior to launch those who were part of the developer preview program had a closed discussion forum on Microsoft Connect, die to the NDA it was not allowed to discuss the information publicly.
On the CPU requirements - yes it sucks and there are other issues with the Emulator like missing 3d acceleration die to the fact it uses HyperV which does not have that capability. Still I would not suggest for people to develop for any platform without being able to test on a real device. This will be possible even without the Emulator.
I disagree with your assumption that we won't see Apps for WP8. Devs who write software for Windows 8 also need a Windows 8 installation, so people who think of porting those Apps will most likely have the infrastructure in place already. For higher profile the costs of a development machine would not be that problematic and C++ as well as middleware support for many gaming engines will make for a lot easier porting of existing Games from other platforms.
The people for which these changes really suck are student developers lile you and me. Only my Windows tablet currently supports the Emulator (Core i5). But still it is a lot nicer then the situation with the Android Emulator in my experience. The later is running to slow for anything iseful on my Core 2 Quad Desktop so I have to use the device for debugging anyway. Additionally only the WP Emulators have Multi-Touch support so I can test those features without deploying to the device.
Concerning XDAs, it has always been more about hacking and tinkering on the system level then user software development. Given that Android due to it's Open Source nature allows for a lot more in that regard it takes no wonder that there is a lot more going on with those than witj WP. Also market share and number of devoces makes for a difference as well.
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ya, I saw that w8 64bit was required to develope at all, and thought wow, why would you limit developers to a brand new unproven ecosystem?
the prehighschool kids are going to be the ones with real innovation, new thinking, and the next Facebook, (I hate fb, but you get the idea) without them, what do you have? Office? really , just Office?
ohgood said:
ya, I saw that w8 64bit was required to develope at all, and thought wow, why would you limit developers to a brand new unproven ecosystem?
the prehighschool kids are going to be the ones with real innovation, new thinking, and the next Facebook, (I hate fb, but you get the idea) without them, what do you have? Office? really , just Office?
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Click to collapse
64 bit is likely to not be the big issue here. I haven't seen to many 32 bit Windows 7 machines. The more problematic move is to lock out everyone who is not using Windows 8. Given that students have access to Windows 8, Visual Studio and the Marketplace for free through Dreamspark that does not sound as that big an issue to me.
In the end it seems they had a reason to go with Hyper-V and Windows-8 simply is the only Desktop operating system which has Hyper-V functionality. The biggest problem is that hardware that is older then 2 years does not support the needed virtualization modes.
How the ecosystem argument plays into this I don't really understand but I guess you meant: new OS that has not that big an installed base yet. Well 4 million upgrades over the last 4 days, not counting the people who bought it with new Hardware or downloaded it from MSDN or Dreamspark it seems to go big rather quickly.
The emulator is a crucial part of application development.
I don't think you want to bring in your early app in alpha stages or even earlier than that on your phone, simply because:
a) you don't have it.
b) Your code might cause damage to the phone, especially on things that use hardware components like vibrators, camera, leds and stuff like that. An unleaded exception can wreck havoc on your phone.
c) The emulator is faster.
Yes, you will eventually need a windows phone 8 device before you publish it, but you should be able to develop your apps before you even have one...
The windows 8 issue is not big. The upgrade from win7 costs like 50 bucks. It is really not that much of an effort.
The insane hardware requirements are, however, and most PCs will not have them. From intel's side, only i3, i5 and i7 processors have what they need, and Pentium dual core for sandy bridge won't...
This is the biggest issue here.
ohgood said:
so, what forums do wp dev's hang out ?
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i'm just a noob, but i think when the devs don't hang out here they hang out nowhere or compared to android extremely rare so that it makes no sense to spend time on...
I wish WP8 RT a good future with Dualboot Android.
Seriously. No offense to the developers who are making attempts so far, but look at what's available on both ios and android. Phoenix hd (ios only), ikaruga (android only), dodonpachi, espgaluda 2, danmaku 2, raiden, shogun, darius etc. The graphics on original shmup like danmaku 2 and phoenix hd are ubelievable. I'd love to play these games on my 1520. I t can't be that hard to port to wp8 if you're using opengl and or, C/C#.
Hi there RCCranium666,
I wonder how many WP users would play such a game. I have some ideas on my Todo list for a very responsive and fluid Shmup. Maybe if I will find there is demand I will make one
PS: what shmups you've tried on WP and what haven't you liked about them?
timotei21 said:
Hi there RCCranium666,
I wonder how many WP users would play such a game. I have some ideas on my Todo list for a very responsive and fluid Shmup. Maybe if I will find there is demand I will make one
PS: what shmups you've tried on WP and what haven't you liked about them?
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original shmups like phienix HD on ios and danmaku2 on ios and android. They have amazing graphics and fun gameplay. There are vids on YouTube. Which you can easily find.
RCranium666 said:
Seriously. No offense to the developers who are making attempts so far, but look at what's available on both ios and android. Phoenix hd (ios only), ikaruga (android only), dodonpachin, espgaluda 2, danmaku 2, raiden, shogun, darius etc. The graphics on original shmup like danmaku and phoenix hd are ubelievable. I'd love to play these games on my 1520. I t can't be that hard to port to wp8 if you're using opengl and or, C/C#.
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Click to collapse
openGL is not supported on windows phone 8, and C# has no way of accessing it.
The only graphical APIs supported are:
monoGame for C#
Directx for C++, which can be accessed through gimikish p/invoke from C# as well.
And this community is mostly composed of individual developers. Porting the big titles you mentioned is going to be difficult, Making a good game is no easy task, but I am sure the developers of those games have already taken note of WP8
One guy has successfully (but partially) ported OpenGL Quake to WP8 platform (by changing OGL engine calls to DirectX, as far as I understood) so theoretically it's possible. But definitely it's not an easy job.
sensboston said:
One guy has successfully (but partially) ported OpenGL Quake to WP8 platform (by changing OGL engine calls to DirectX, as far as I understood) so theoretically it's possible. But definitely it's not an easy job.
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Not to mention creating the models all over again...
mcosmin222 said:
Not to mention creating the models all over again...
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Why would you need to recreate the models? Can't they just be converted? All the art, bullets and ships are completely designed. I can understand the need to recode the physics of the game.
RCranium666 said:
Why would you need to recreate the models? Can't they just be converted? All the art, bullets and ships are completely designed. I can understand the need to recode the physics of the game.
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There is no legal way to get the models. If the original developers find out (they will if we use the same names), they can and will sue us and win.
mcosmin222 said:
There is no legal way to get the models. If the original developers find out (they will if we use the same names), they can and will sue us and win.
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I'm not talking about copying the games. I'm talking about the original developers doing it. I'm surprised no one has ported mame yet. That would fill my appetite until modern games come out.
RCranium666 said:
I'm not talking about copying the games. I'm talking about the original developers doing it. I'm surprised no one has ported mame yet. That would fill my appetite until modern games come out.
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It's all because of low profit on WP market. Porting GLES game (even written on C++) to DirectX isn't easy; it requires additional human resources (and you need an experienced game developers) - it's pricey...
Nuts. At least it let's me conserve battery life, unlike my iPhone and Android phones.
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