Related
http://code.google.com/android/
incase anyones not familiar with android, check that site out.
im not sure why there isnt more development or developers that are going after this in terms of getting it working on all devices? im currently using it on my vogue and its amazing. definately better UI in terms of EVERYTHING. its open source, so i think developers should be all over this! has so much potential its kind of ridiculous
vogue thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=382265
its working about 80% now thanks to amazing developer martin.
the browser and everything (overall UI) are so much better and smoother than windows mobile! and being that its open source with google ENCOURAGING development of apps and themes and skins and whatnot, i think this is the next best thing to happen to ppc's.
THIS is the actual iphone killer.
just some samples
on a vogue (very smooth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0z9bWiAT44
just a demo of the browser (mine is actually a little smoother than this)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2FpDDEVWtk
the reason im posting this here is because i was the first one to post in this section with manilla2d (when udk first released it), asking whether we can get this on other devices, and look what happened with that. if we can get the amazing developers from here to work on this like they worked on m2d, then wow this will be amazing!
Yeah, even I'm suprised at the low level of excitement of porting this to all devices. Hoping for some real development . Btw, those videos are pretty impressive.
Akshay
Yeah... I'm a little surprised too.
I have a Vogue now, so I'm OK, but I'd love to see somebody pick this project up for the Touch Pro. It seems to be very similar to the G1, so the porting would be a lot more complete than the porting to the Vogue.
Hopefully somebody with the skills (read: not me) will undertake this.
it'll pick up. i say in 6 months to a year people will snap out of the apple app dev craze. but from a dev point of view, apple is where its at right now. the amount of money you could make is a driver by all means.
htc will also be a key part in this. when they start to release better looking hardware, perhaps something on par with the diamond....you'll see a user increase. and user increase translate into dev interest. so just hang in there....i think you'll get what you want soon.
A ppc that works only on 80 Percent ? And no additional Software, no outlook syncronisation? Thats at the moment somthing for freaks or people with a second device
If there would be a 100 Percent Android i would install it, believe me, because i´m not very happy with windows anymore.
So i think we must wait and hope.
My next Device in half a year will be hopefully the Touch HD with Android rolleyes
because it makes no sense to port androud to a phone that is not 3G with GPS.
the only advantage of the g phone that I saw was the service. 3G and free GPS! i'm like, how much for the puppy in the window?
I honestly think that porting it to my wizard would be senseless.
without the service the gphone is just a phone wothout service.
S.V.I said:
because it makes no sense to port androud to a phone that is not 3G with GPS.
the only advantage of the g phone that I saw was the service. 3G and free GPS! i'm like, how much for the puppy in the window?
I honestly think that porting it to my wizard would be senseless.
without the service the gphone is just a phone wothout service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it is always pointless. We do it because we can (and because we don't want to do anything while at work)
(and much like bluemetal, we are all tired of the same old look and functionality in our WM devices). Then again, it can always be worse....
we could all have iphones
Anyways, I am looking forward to someone porting this to the Blue Angel.
The bigest stumbling block for me is lack of Exchange support. GPS isn't really necessary with the cell tower triangulation available. The accuracy is getting better. It will never be as tight as GPS but close is good enough for me. I can do with out 3G (I wish I had it) I don't enjoy the experience with the little screen. It's like looking at the ocean through a porthole. A 5 inch screen with much better resolution would be great. I use it for quick info but surfing is not fun.
I do like the idea of going linux on the phone. It would be that much closer to having a truely mobile desktop. We wouldn't have to install resource hogging shells that ride on top of an already bloated today screen to get better customization.
I think the biggest problem overall though is the hardware needed will put a lot of older equipment like my little wizard out to pasture. I don't have the funds to rush out an purchase a new phone. And yes I think all the bugs will need to be shaken out for a while before I take the plunge. Maybe by the 2nd or third generation of Android things will be a little less "bleeding edge". It all looks great now but I rely on my phone too much to gamble on an untried system.
To be completely honest, I too am suprised by the lack of progress.
This is a complete replacement for Windows Mobile: something we've all only dreamed about up until now. It will have a wicked Dev community around it soon enough.
There were a hell of a lot of efforts to get the Beta running. But now... nothing?
*so confused
The worst part is, it'd be gorgeous on my LG KS20, but I doubt we'll see it anytime soon: no one loves us KS20 owners. Guess you were all just jealous of our drivers.
bluemetalaxe said:
A ppc that works only on 80 Percent ? And no additional Software, no outlook syncronisation? Thats at the moment somthing for freaks or people with a second device
If there would be a 100 Percent Android i would install it, believe me, because i´m not very happy with windows anymore.
So i think we must wait and hope.
My next Device in half a year will be hopefully the Touch HD with Android rolleyes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't know if you read my whole post, but i never said "hey everyone lets run something 80% finished on our ppcs."
waiting and hoping isnt going to do anything, thats why i started this thread. to get more attention instead of sitting and waiting for something we arent sure is going to ever happen.
im glad a lot of other people are on the same page as me, wondering why there is barely any development for this. thanks for the support guys
lets get some devs in here to weigh in on this!
Well, there's a number of quite simple reasons...
- Porting Android to another device isn't as simple as "Hey, it's Open Source, you just have to compile and install". First of all, you'd need to find a working cross compiler for ARM in the first place (one using Windows' API, like those used for PPC apps isn't much help). Then you'd need to write drivers for usually undocumented hardware with this cross compiler or in ARM assembler (reusing existing WM drivers, like in cooked ROMs, wouldn't work in Linux). Finally, you need to find a way to flash that system to your PPC (that's a bit more work than a patched/cooked variation of an already existing WM ROM), and so on. That's work for the kind of freaks who would do their taxes binary in mind...
- Writing apps for a system almost nobody own so far isn't that attractive. It's even less attractive if the potential developer doesn't own one - the real experience is always a bit different to an emulator, and usually would like some use for himself, too (what good is an mobile app for you if you'd need a laptop with emulator to use it? ). So far, there's only one official Android device out there, and aside from the fact it's still a bit "first try, for developers only" (no Outlook sync, ugly design, ...), you only get it in very few parts of the world or in overpriced eBay auctions. Inofficial ports with reduced functionality and maybe buggy or slow "beta" drivers aren't that great, too...
- While the Android API is quite close to common Java style, it's still something completely new, which requires some time to get into the framework's basic style, the available functions, the loopholes and small tricks, etc. With WM, the gap to common Windows (desktop) programming is way smaller, and I guess it's similar with the iPhone and Mac programming.
Or, in other words: Give Andoid some time to grow up. IMHO, G1 and the few existing ports are a playground for hackers and early adopters, so they can get startet with fixing (security holes, missing functionality, ...). Then, in some months, more devices with a "hacker improved" Android will be published, and when developers buy those, they also will start writing apps if they are missing something.
you'd think more people would be starting to port.. because god is that g1 terrible, you have to have sharpened pencils for fingers to type on that flush keyboard)
Mort said:
Well, there's a number of quite simple reasons...
- Porting Android to another device isn't as simple as "Hey, it's Open Source, you just have to compile and install". First of all, you'd need to find a working cross compiler for ARM in the first place (one using Windows' API, like those used for PPC apps isn't much help). Then you'd need to write drivers for usually undocumented hardware with this cross compiler or in ARM assembler (reusing existing WM drivers, like in cooked ROMs, wouldn't work in Linux). Finally, you need to find a way to flash that system to your PPC (that's a bit more work than a patched/cooked variation of an already existing WM ROM), and so on. That's work for the kind of freaks who would do their taxes binary in mind...
- Writing apps for a system almost nobody own so far isn't that attractive. It's even less attractive if the potential developer doesn't own one - the real experience is always a bit different to an emulator, and usually would like some use for himself, too (what good is an mobile app for you if you'd need a laptop with emulator to use it? ). So far, there's only one official Android device out there, and aside from the fact it's still a bit "first try, for developers only" (no Outlook sync, ugly design, ...), you only get it in very few parts of the world or in overpriced eBay auctions. Inofficial ports with reduced functionality and maybe buggy or slow "beta" drivers aren't that great, too...
- While the Android API is quite close to common Java style, it's still something completely new, which requires some time to get into the framework's basic style, the available functions, the loopholes and small tricks, etc. With WM, the gap to common Windows (desktop) programming is way smaller, and I guess it's similar with the iPhone and Mac programming.
Or, in other words: Give Andoid some time to grow up. IMHO, G1 and the few existing ports are a playground for hackers and early adopters, so they can get startet with fixing (security holes, missing functionality, ...). Then, in some months, more devices with a "hacker improved" Android will be published, and when developers buy those, they also will start writing apps if they are missing something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok now these reasons make a lot of sense. im just surprised that not as many people are trying to get it started so they can get started on fixing, like you said. but ok, all of your other reasons make complete sense. im sure the future releases of android will only get better.
android just seems like exactly what many of us have been looking for in wm devices, basically, a complete UI replacement endorsed/created by a large company (other than microsoft lol).
jakub_w said:
im just surprised that not as many people are trying to get it started so they can get started on fixing, like you said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who knows? AFAIK, the order numbers aren't that bad, and all those reviewers give some feedback, too. I mean, it's only a week since the G1 is available at all, and, as said, it's not very attractive so far. Not everybody wants to spend hundreds of dollars just to provide Google with requests and code changes and T-Mobile and HTC with money...
android just seems like exactly what many of us have been looking for in wm devices, basically, a complete UI replacement endorsed/created by a large company (other than microsoft lol).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think the UI is the really big thing about Android. You can even replace it completely, and I don't know (yet) where the limits / design guides are for applications. I just hope it doesn't get as confusing as Linux on the desktop, where even a Gnome or KDE desktop can be modified so far that it's almost as hard to switch distros as switching from Windows to MacOS...
The important things about Android are more in the basic technology, imho, like
- A stable, timeless system core (*nix is older than me, so "modern" is not quite correct - that goes for MacOS X, too, btw...)
- Seamless integration of connection management and phone functions (opposed to WM, where it still acts like a makeshift patchwork, and with every update less APIs are working...)
- Portable application framework (Java, lots of system APIs)
- Simple application installation (no "is this EXE a PC setup or the PPC executable?", "How the hell do I install a CAB file?", ...)
However, I still wonder how/if Andoid will support direct PC synchronization (for shared files, contacts, appointments, music, ...) and how fast and memory consumptive the required Java VM is... (Well, at least none of the G1 reviews I read complained about that, so it seems to be faster than .NET on WM...)
i was just playing around with android and in the dev tools or api demos theres a section called opengl es. i have a vogue and i tried these, they ran extremely smoothly. isnt this something that everyone has been saying is impossible? (specifically for getting tf3d to run on the vogue) i think this proves that software driven 3d is more than capable of handling tf3d. just a thought.
jakub_w said:
i was just playing around with android and in the dev tools or api demos theres a section called opengl es. i have a vogue and i tried these, they ran extremely smoothly. isnt this something that everyone has been saying is impossible? (specifically for getting tf3d to run on the vogue) i think this proves that software driven 3d is more than capable of handling tf3d. just a thought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I definitely agree with you on that. Thing is though is that this is a completely different environment with a different set of drivers (and rules) which makes (for example) modifying their parameters to allow for keys normally used for certain functions in WM to be used for something completely different. Also OpenGL (ES) is all that is used on *nix OSes whether or not they run on full or embedded hardware. All that's needed is the driver for the graphics chip. Microsoft wants you to use their proprietary D3D not OpenGL (ES) hence why it was impossible to have OpenGL (ES) before. Also TF3D uses DirectX and not OpenGL ES AFAIK.
Android is great. Only thing I need is a way to get the SDcard image working and a HTC Touch Pro to port Android, Angstrom and/or OpenMoko to, I'd be set.
why would you develop software for an operating system that isn't even fully ported yet?
joel2009 said:
why would you develop software for an operating system that isn't even fully ported yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Weeell....
- It's Linux and Open Source (some people wouldn't touch a closed system with a stick...)
- It's nice to be prepared when you get the running system
- There is a device with that OS
- The documentation is way better than Microsoft's
- There's a good chance the API will remain compatible, so it doesn't hurt to start early (opposed to WM, where some basic features can/could only be done with device dependant or inofficial APIs, which were dropped in newer updates...)
Hello there,
I'm a relativelly experienced software developer and im looking to develop applications for the smartphone ambient.
The thing is... i don't know the first thing about smartphones OS other than who the big boys are, so... this is where the actual knowledgeable guys come in...
I need help with some questions:
1) Which is more developer friendly (IDE, libraries, languages, allowing for custom applications, etc)?
2) How much support is there for developing great eye candy applications in each major smartphone OS? Or just state the one with the best support for cool looking applications.
3) I heard that in Windows mobile you better code in .NET or C++ or you're screwed... Is there really no better alternative?
4) What other languages / framework can one use in Symbian, RIM, IPhone?
I'm not a WinMo dev (yet?) but I can answer a few of these questions.
2. iPhone strives to have a consistently beautiful OS by providing easy to use APIs for GUI creation. Since every app uses the same APIs, they all have the same smooth scrolling action and animations. As far as I know, Windows Mobile does not have APIs for a consistently good looking UI. So far, every app I've seen uses its own implementation of finger scrolling, even within HTC's own apps.
3. What alternatives are you thinking of? If you want to use Java, you could code for J2ME and Jbed. They don't look as good as native apps though, are less flexible, and tend to have greater overhead. Not great for mobile devices.
Soaa- said:
I'm not a WinMo dev (yet?) but I can answer a few of these questions.
2. iPhone strives to have a consistently beautiful OS by providing easy to use APIs for GUI creation. Since every app uses the same APIs, they all have the same smooth scrolling action and animations. As far as I know, Windows Mobile does not have APIs for a consistently good looking UI. So far, every app I've seen uses its own implementation of finger scrolling, even within HTC's own apps.
3. What alternatives are you thinking of? If you want to use Java, you could code for J2ME and Jbed. They don't look as good as native apps though, are less flexible, and tend to have greater overhead. Not great for mobile devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you that was really helpfull. Whats your take on Symbian or Android?
Soaa- said:
2. iPhone strives to have a consistently beautiful OS by providing easy to use APIs for GUI creation. Since every app uses the same APIs, they all have the same smooth scrolling action and animations. As far as I know, Windows Mobile does not have APIs for a consistently good looking UI. So far, every app I've seen uses its own implementation of finger scrolling, even within HTC's own apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the record, 6.5 has gestures support (including kinetic scrolling) built in so it will work across all applications.
For all members who've been putting their eyes on questions in the Dev&Hack section. it is now ALLOWED to ask development related questions in the D&H section while all other questions go in the Q&A section.
cheers
Noone who can give me a quick rundown on these OS's?
Thaks in advance.
SEE....
http://www.smorgasbordet.com/pellesc/
http://www.trajectorylabs.com/win32.html
This is the most I've been able to turn up in any of my searches, least in terms of an API for common GUI controls.
http://fluid.codeplex.com/
Haven't had much time to play with it lately tho. Hopefully that will change toward the end of next month.
*EDIT*
Then theres also the non free stuff.
http://www.resco.net/developer/default.aspx
Hi all,
What follows could be considered to be the ramblings of a lunatic however it is intended to provoke discussion and maybe some thought about where we (Sense users/fans) go from here. Personally I know I don't want to see Sense die off (I'm not planning on moving to Android or WinPho 7 any time soon, as you'll read) and my phone (HD2) is only a YEAR old!
The Future of Sense?
Many of us bought our HTC WinMo phones on the strength of Sense (henceforth referred to as Manila to differentiate it from its Android, and Windows Phone 7 "Hub", incarnations), which brought a compelling and attractive interface to ugly old WinMo. Judging by the amount of devices Manila has been (or has been requested to be) ported to it is still a compelling and attractive interface. However users and fans of Manila are now facing a dilemma; Manila is, in all probability reaching, if it hasn't already, the end of its (officially) developed life. Short of any previously unknown major bugs surfacing its not hard to imagine HTC now focusing all their efforts on Android and Windows Phone 7.
So where does this leave us, many of us who still have perfectly functioning phones, which often still have up-to-date hardware? We could, thanks to the guys (with very large brains) here on XDA developers, choose between Windows Phone 7 or Android to give our phones a new lease of life. However, personally (and I know I'm not the only one) I don't want to. Windows phone 7 doesn't appeal because of its lack of customisation (and copying of iOS on so many levels), and Android because of, well, Google! WinMo gives us the freedom to tinker, without the need of "jail breaking", which many of us love WinMo for. Manila is the icing on the cake... and everyone knows the icing is the best bit of the cake!
So where do we go from here?
Organise. Mobilise.
First off I don't want to take anything away from the (quite brilliant) people here on XDA Developers that have already managed (or facilitated others) to do some pretty amazing things with Manila, having extended it far beyond HTCs original scope. However despite all the hard work and effort that has gone into reverse engineering Manila there is still much that is unknown about it and parts we cannot change. If we wish to see Manila grow and develop (further than we already have), to keep our phones current, we need HTCs co-operation, we need the actual Manila source.
But why should HTC help us when they would probably rather us buy new phones? Well, HTC is a business and all good business' like a good deal. So, they've got something we want but what do we have to offer them in return? I believe that Manila has applications outside of Android and Windows Phone 7 (which HTC already have covered, so we can forget about them) so there is still one avenue left to us that we could attempt to try and tempt HTC with...
Swallow the Tablet!
At the moment the tablet market is dominated by iOS and Android but inevitably Microsoft will manage to muscle Windows into the tablet market. It managed it with phones (then, as we all know, lost its way) and more recently it managed to (almost completely) squeeze Linux out of the netbook market. At CES 2011 scores of Windows based tablets were unveiled from manufacturers such as Asus, Lenovo, Viliv and even Samsung! Microsofts desire to muscle its way into yet another market (tablets) with a full fat version of Windows is compounded by the fact that the next version of Windows (8) will support SoC architectures from Intel and ARM. Make no mistake; Whatever your views on the suitability of Windows for tablets, Windows tablets are coming and they will sell. However, lets not get too hung up on tablets, there are still millions upon millions (upon millions!) of PCs out there and sales of PCs are still strong.
But what does this have to do with Manila? Well, I believe Manila would make the perfect lightweight 3D widget engine for Windows and this is where our opportunity lies. HTC currently has a massive presence in smartphones and are now entering the tablet market (currently Android to begin with, but given their ties with Microsoft, in the past with Windows Mobile and now Windows Phone 7, it won't be long before they produce a full fat Windows tablet). However they do not (yet) have a presence, of any kind, on desktops and it is with this that we could tempt them. So, HTC get the opportunity to have a presence PC desktops worldwide and we get to extend the life of our phones that utilise Manila!
Don't forget the presence of "Sense" on the desktop would be a great marketing tool... people see the advertisements for Sense on the TV (as HTC are currently doing in the UK), they give it a try on their computer, like it, and may be inclined to buy a phone with Sense in the future. There are also the opportunities that "Sense" (Manila) on the desktop could tie in with Sense on phones.
To be continued...
Reserved for extra details
I would like to see HTC releasing a new Sense for Windows Mobile, just for the ROM cookers
That would be a nice look - Sense on my desktop as well as my phone - and CHT as well?? Perhaps synchronised so that changing the look of one chnges the other - interesting possibilities
nathanpc said:
I would like to see HTC releasing a new Sense for Windows Mobile, just for the ROM cookers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Nathan, thanks for your reply.
However I feel you are missing the point somewhat. HTC wouldn't need to release a new version of Sense, in return for the community driven development of a desktop version of Sense, the continued development of Sense, for Windows Mobile, would also be in our hands.
Ross202 said:
That would be a nice look - Sense on my desktop as well as my phone - and CHT as well?? Perhaps synchronised so that changing the look of one chnges the other - interesting possibilities
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Ross, thanks for your reply.
That there is a very interesting idea and exactly why I started this thread.
Strictly speaking, with the development of Manila in our hands, we wouldn't need something like CHT because many of the ideas behind CHT would be a part of Manila as standard.
I'm also going to propose a working group (the details of which will appear above shortly) - The Manila Community Working Group - which, I hope, will be made up of some of XDA's greatest independent Sense "developers" (and maybe even HTC? ) so we can thrash out what we would like to see in Sense, how it would work, and how we could achieve many of the feature requests (like your own) that we are going to receive. While the Working Group would be closed a thread would be naturally started to keep everyone abreast of where we currently are.
The more organised we appear the greater the chance of HTC taking us seriously and considering our proposals (and the greater the chance we have of also ensuring the continued development of Manila for our phones).
Could you put out a poll to determine the response. I am into this development, though I am not a developer myself. I've been through many different types of smart and not so smart phones. Manila/Sense is the way to go. In fact in my ROM cooking, any app/settings that could be access through Sense is remove from the Start Menu.
Let's get going
illi said:
Could you put out a poll to determine the response. I am into this development, though I am not a developer myself. I've been through many different types of smart and not so smart phones. Manila/Sense is the way to go. In fact in my ROM cooking, any app/settings that could be access through Sense is remove from the Start Menu.
Let's get going
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi illi, thanks for your reply.
Now thats the kind of enthusiasm I was hoping to see! I think Manila is the perfect way of hiding Windows (on a tablet, or PC) in the same way it does with Windows Mobile on phones.
I imagine a PC based Manila to have three modes of operation:
Widget Mode - Individual widgets can be placed on the desktop
Full Screen - Similar to how Manila works on our phones now with lots of added bells and whistles
Window Mode - Similar to the fullscreen version but in a more compact (borderless) window placeable anywhere on the desktop
In fullscreen or window mode widgets would be placeable on the "Home" tab and/or have their very own tab. The layouts/graphics required for each mode would be described in a single mode9 file.
Well, thats my thoughts, but I encourage anyone with any ideas to share!
*cough* bump *cough*
C'mon guys (and girls?), there must be more than 3 people who'd like to see Manila move beyond their phones and extend the functionality of their (WinMo) phones too?? Only if we can prove to HTC that there is a desire for this that we can consider approaching HTC and be taken seriously. Support for WinMo devices, as we know them, will gradually ebb away and its up to us to unite and take control of our devices? Do you really want your phones to be left behind?
Like I said, I don't want to take anything away from the (very clever) people on here who have already done so much to advance Manila, but its time to pool our resources and work towards the same goal... together.
Now is the time to stand and be counted!
thank you buddy, nice work
DJShadesUK said:
*cough* bump *cough*
C'mon guys (and girls?), there must be more than 3 people who'd like to see Manila move beyond their phones and extend the functionality of their (WinMo) phones too?? Only if we can prove to HTC that there is a desire for this that we can consider approaching HTC and be taken seriously. Support for WinMo devices, as we know them, will gradually ebb away and its up to us to unite and take control of our devices? Do you really want your phones to be left behind?
Like I said, I don't want to take anything away from the (very clever) people on here who have already done so much to advance Manila, but its time to pool our resources and work towards the same goal... together.
Now is the time to stand and be counted!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice thread. I really think HTC made a revolution with Sense. I bet if microsoft cintinued WM7, HTC would have no doubt released Sense 3.0. It would be brialliant iff we could get a update. Yes i understand your point of getting yhese manilla source files, but what goood will it be? I don't see many developers for WM nowadays on XDA. Most of them have moved on to android, ios, wp7. i think if htc were going to update semse, the first thing they shoul improve is the effiency and usage. Because atm it uses far to many resources.
Nice thread, Look forward to the update
olyloh6696 said:
Nice thread. I really think HTC made a revolution with Sense. I bet if microsoft cintinued WM7, HTC would have no doubt released Sense 3.0. It would be brialliant iff we could get a update. Yes i understand your point of getting yhese manilla source files, but what goood will it be? I don't see many developers for WM nowadays on XDA. Most of them have moved on to android, ios, wp7. i think if htc were going to update semse, the first thing they shoul improve is the effiency and usage. Because atm it uses far to many resources.
Nice thread, Look forward to the update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your input.
Yes, it would be nice if we were to get an official update but the chances of that happening don't look good, thats why we need to try and take matters into our own hands. You are completely right about developers leaving WM for other platforms but that is why we need to organise ourselves and present a case to HTC for the independent development of Manila for the Windows and Windows Mobile. The point is if we can get our hand on the Manila source then we can make the Windows Mobile version compatible* with the desktop version then any developments for the desktop version will automatically be available to those of us with Windows Mobile devices. This way we can leverage desktop developers to extend the life of our WM phones for us, developers leaving WM would be so much of an issue.
*Thanks to the similarities between full fat Windows and Windows Mobile its possible to make any supporting (helper) .dll's required by widgets/tabs for the desktop version of Manila compatible with the mobile version.
There must be more people who would like to have their say about this, before this section of XDA becomes a virtual ghost town?
Oops, double post!
Hi DJShadesUK,
Excellent start to a thread, some excellent ideas and thoughts.
I thought I'd keep the discussion on here for now, as it's more likely (hopefully) to continue.
These are just general thoughts, I hope will form into a balanced response by the time I've finished..
1st off, has HTC ever open-sourced anything before?
My impression of the mobile phone industry is that things are closed down due its competitiveness. The exception here of course is Google...but that is because their business model in this industry is totally different.
My thought is although the Sense legacy appears to be closing to an end from HTCs point of view, chances are they won't want to part with it, just in case.
What is in it for them?
As much as I would love to get my hands on the HTC tools used to create and modify things like the mode9 files, it all represents an investment made by HTC which however unlikely could be used by them in the future.
I've been impressed with HTCs handling of Sense being modded though, they could have stirred up a whole heap of trouble for people and locked things down, (I've even heard that a youtube video of CHT on an Energy ROM was going around HTC). Needless to say, they have supported us by not shutting it down and I hope they have gained in return from observing what we do.
There is a whole rats-nest of issues if HTC did decide, ok lets give them out tools and see what happens. Clearly the HTC branding would gain tremendously, I can see Sense being put on TVs, Set Top Boxes and all sorts. It would also show that not only can HTC make brilliant hardware, but they can do the same with the software.
We can only guess what HTCs roadmap involves, but clearly tablets will be there somewhere. It wouldn't surprise me though if they try something which is entirely Sense based (sitting on a basic os), perhaps a media player or tv gadget. Whatever it is, they clearly pride themselves on coming up with clever ideas (if the adverts are to be believed) and that means they will be careful about sharing too much.
Obviously HTC already knew that Sense was not much use for the future (at least in its current form) or they would have completed the Facebook tab they started and they would have been the ones writing the RSS tab. I see that as the point when someone pulled the plug on pushing sense further and let it wind-down (I still feel sorry for the person who did all the facebook stuff - hopefully the tab makes up for it by not wasting their effort).
Why sense?
What is it about sense which makes us want to mod it? Is it just because it is there and it works as it should. Is it the design and concept of it, that makes it easy to use and we want to build more on to it? Is it because .net simply sucks at graphics (as well as other things...)?
Personally I find it a pig to work with, it probably isn't with the right tools though. Similar things are possible with other methods, so why not use them, the tabs which are already there can be replicated. Does the possibility of Silverlight on WM open up other options?
However, CHT shows perfectly why sense is worth using, but is that down to how sense works or just how Cookie designed CHT?
I'm interested to know peoples thoughts on this question, what is it about sense in particular that we want?
Windows based Sense...possible?
This is an interesting proposal...I can see this in one of two ways.
1. Native:
Attempt to use lua scripts and mode9 files as they are intended, compiled and in binary format. Obviously the smoothest and most efficient method. Lua is an open standard, so information is available on it's use and methods (although not sure about the compiled form). Mode9 files I guess can be used directly, but such things are beyond my knowledge. Clearly there are issues with tie in to the system (i.e. registry access, hardware etc will need to be different), but that could be compiled into the files.
2. Interpreted:
By leaving the lua scripts and mode9 files decompiled, the files can easily be parsed and interpreted by another program. This would also allow an abstraction layer to be added which interprets calls to the registry, hardware etc and makes the suitable calls. Ok, slower to do on the pc, but the CPU power should be able to manage with it.
The mode9 side probably won't be too bad, since it's format is quite basic and everything is static. Lua script interpreting will be much harder, but that could be something which can be developed over time (by supporting the basics at first and adding more over time). Tie into to dlls could pose the biggest problem, but they would never have worked on other environments anyway.
If we had some kind of interpreter this would also form the basis of a designer too, allowing easy design of components and pages [at first a display, then perhaps a way to edit directly].
Note: This concept is not new but has been discussed as part of the manila visual kitchen.
Both are huge jobs, but there is the skill and knowledge to do at least the 2nd right here on Xda.
What is the origins of the mode9 files, could there already be something which reads them?
Are there other groups which have gone further?
Other than Cookie, there are very few which have totally re-built things from scratch [I must add my apologies if I've missed something]. For example one is Moonar's GPS tab, which is from Russian site which appears to do sense stuff too.
Are they using the same tools as us, do they have better ones, can we work together to produce new ones? I've noticed that a lot of the sense stuff show up on Chinese sites too, are we missing things here too?
Also I must add, the CMD line kitchen is a piece of art, each component is excellent and huge thanks to the whole group for the work done on it!
Something else of note:
HTC Home for windows...
http://www.htchome.org/en/
I am very much sorry for my last review, Actually I typed only about Windows Mobile 6.5 on it as I did research on only HTC HD2 with winmo 6.5 but my stupid friends researched on winmo 7 and Android and they typed all bull****. My exams were going on so I didn't logged in, and today, I found 90% people saying my previous review was rubbish and 10% saying good.
Please Find original Review Below:-
Tested Phones:-
Windows Mobile 6.5- HTC HD2
Windows Mobile 7- HTC HD7
Android- HTC Desire HD
All mobile phones are used are of HTC
Many People come up with this question that which OS is better? Android or WinMO? 7 or 6.5? So Now i've answers for all your questions.
Please see the reviews of the following OS(s) below:-
Android:-
A very Good and Exciting OS. It is the most Popular OS today. Many big companies like HTC, Samsung, Sony Ericson, LG etc. are coming with this OS today. Some small companies like IDEOS, Micromax etc. are also coming with Android OS.
Android was made popular by Google and supports the most number of apps at current time. Google Voice makes it better to search things and to enable voice command features. Android, Today is famous for both- Its business Usage, and its social usage.
Today HTC has made HTC SENSE UI to enable Android users with HTC Sense. But the Sense UI user interface is still not good enough against winmo user interface. The only problem of Android is less user interfaces. But we don't have to worry because XDA Developers have made possible for us to get the HTC Sense Winmo 6.5 user interface.
When HTC Desire HD was tested, We found that it was hanging a little. This problem is also in HTC HD2 with winmo 6.5, but in HD2 its very less, and if we use a storage Card with more storage, it gets resolved.
Themegastar1 Rating- 9.5/10.
Windows Mobile 6.5
It is a very good OS, It was developed by Microsoft after making winmo 6.1 which was featured in HTC Touch Pro.
It is a good OS for all ages like Android is good for all ages. It has a high technology. But the only thing that is wrong is, all phones with Winmo 6.5 in it are costly as Microsoft is selling this technology to companies at a high price.
The main Dis-advantage of this phone is that it has less apps available. If you don't have a High Memory Storage Card(At least 2 GB memory Card Required), your phone may hang while opening the Windows files or any other file, that can be resolved by locking the phone for a few seconds, and then click on arrow and click on My Device/Storage Card. Its Windows Marketplace also doesn't have a lot of apps and we have to download Omarket from Freeware Pocket Pc to get more apps.
Themegastar1 Rating- 9.5/10
Windows Mobile 7
It is a good OS, which was made by Microsoft, but the main disadvantage in it is that it doesn't have any good User Interface and cannot be Personalized a lot like Winmo 6.5 and Android. It also doesn't have Bluetooth(HTC Mozart), because of which it lacks in technology. It also doesn't have an SD Card Slot which makes it a stupid Choice.
This version of Windows Mobile has Zune and XBOX Live in It which makes this OS a good option for gaming. It also uses Hang-Free Technology and has good speed than that of Android and Winmo 6.5.
If people are thinking to buy mobiles with this OS, they should wait for a while as Microsoft is launching their phones with all of the above features that are missing in this phone. The only thing that it will not have is a good User Interface and less customizable options.
Themegastar1 Rating- 9.5/10.
So, you chose which is better for you. I think these will help you to decide which is better OS.
I have not included Apple iOS(Iphone Os), Palm OS and other OS(s) in it because they come in less phones(Ie. iOS comes only in iPhone).
OMG !!
He's back !!!
Do you want honest feedback or do you want people to just say nice things?
Because honestly, it sounds like you had a child write those summaries.
apallohadas said:
Do you want honest feedback or do you want people to just say nice things?
Because honestly, it sounds like you had a child write those summaries.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am a teen only. I am 14 Yrs old.... SO what you want to say. Previous post was written by my stupid friends, to downgrade my reputation.
themegastar1 said:
I am a teen only. I am 14 Yrs old.... SO what you want to say. Previous post was written by my stupid friends, to downgrade my reputation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lmaao.......
Ok, if you want honest feedback, you could take what you have written already and update it to more current matters.
Your review of the android section doesn't really 'flow' smoothly. No one is really 'coming' with the OS, they're making devices that 'Use' different versions. You should really say that and maybe even talk about the differences in the versions.
Don't bother talking about IDEOS or Micromax.
Your review of WinMo 6.5 is strangely phrased and your review of Win7 just inaccurate.
I would say scrap all 3 reviews and start fresh. And not say 'Super OS' as the title.
Not trying to be mean, but I'm sure you can write better than this.
I will not say much as other post have already given you some good advice. What I do want to say and try to educate you on is, please do not get confused. Windows Mobile and Windows Phone 7 are not the the same OS. Windows Mobile 6.5 is the last in the line of Windows Mobile releases. Windows Phone 7 is Microsofts completely new OS that they released to try to better compete with Andriod as Windows Mobile is more a busness man's oriented and tech head oriented OS. There is 100% no reverse compatibility with anything Windows Mobile be it apps or whatever from Windows Mobile to Windows Phone 7 as they are both written with different code and have different structure. So you see the only thing they have in common is the are both Microsoft products but that is it. So when you talk about them do not call Wndows Phone 7 Windows Mobile 7 as it is not.
my thoughts as the chaps above have given you fantastic advice:
- scrap all 3 reviews and start fresh. i assume that you have played around extensively with all 3 extensively (wm6.5, wp7 and android)? my suggestion is for you to google the reviews for each and compare your own experiences
- the reviews you gave for all 3 are jumping all over the place in terms of topics covered.
- each was given a 9.5 rating out of a possible 10 yet the reviews show negativity in certain features?
- the reviews don't go deep enough and are barely scratching the surface
no offense mate but if your friends did say the reviews were bs they could be reflecting what others think as well.
with that, don't go about and revise your reviews asap. take your time. read more on the experiences of other people and compare what you have seen when playing around with the devices. once you get a better picture, go for it.
simple advice....dont write a review man...we guys are smart enuff...to know wats right...and theres pocketnoww...gizmodo...engadget....phonescoop....gsmarena...etc..!!
YOU DONT STAND A CHANCE !!!
You guys are brutal... the OP is only 14
kiki_tt said:
You guys are brutal... the OP is only 14
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think anyone was brutal or said anything just to spite him.
He should take the criticism and use it to write better reviews (or not write them).
apallohadas said:
(or not write them)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..............
themegastar1 said:
Please see the reviews of the following OS(s) below:-
Android:-
A very Good and Exciting OS. It is the most Popular OS today. Many big companies like HTC, Samsung, Sony Ericson, LG etc. are coming with this OS today. Some small companies like IDEOS, Micromax etc. are also coming with Android OS.
Android was made popular by Google and supports the most number of apps at current time. Google Voice makes it better to search things and to enable voice command features. Android, Today is famous for both- Its business Usage, and its social usage.
Today HTC has made HTC SENSE UI to enable Android users with HTC Sense. But the Sense UI user interface is still not good enough against winmo user interface. The only problem of Android is less user interfaces. But we don't have to worry because XDA Developers have made possible for us to get the HTC Sense Winmo 6.5 user interface.
When HTC Desire HD was tested, We found that it was hanging a little. This problem is also in HTC HD2 with winmo 6.5, but in HD2 its very less, and if we use a storage Card with more storage, it gets resolved.
Themegastar1 Rating- 9.5/10.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont find any "review" in this review article.Just some general info obtained from net like "very good","exciting", "popular" etc etc...
And i dont want to comment on this: "But the Sense UI user interface is still not good enough against winmo user interface. The only problem of Android is less user interfaces."
themegastar1 said:
I am a teen only. I am 14 Yrs old.... SO what you want to say. Previous post was written by my stupid friends, to downgrade my reputation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
14 years old....interesting that in this thread (very first post):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=908726
he says "I am an IT Professional and a software developer(Windows)"...
=====================================================
Hello Friends,
I have a question for all of the mobile developers. You might think I'm Joking. But its Serious. Is there any way to run android apps(2.1-2.3) in HTC HD2(Leo) which is running Windows Mobile? Many People Say 'NO'. But emulation of any OS is possible. We all thought that we can run PS2 games only on Sony Playstation 2 but we were proved wrong by PCSX2 by launching first PS2 Emulator. So I want to know is there any emulator by which I can run android apps on my HTC HD2? Its difficult but I think XDA Developers can make this type of emulators. It will also help thousands of people. I am an IT Professional and a software developer(Windows) but i don't know about developing apps for mobile. Otherwise would have made/wrote android apps in WM language/scripts. Some News also came that there are certain Converters which can convert Android Apps into J2ME or WM apps. I need a solution to this problem.
Regards,
Arun
Themegastar1 CEO
========================================
i'd take backlashsid's advice in post # 12 above....
Robson said:
14 years old....interesting that in this thread (very first post):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=908726
he says "I am an IT Professional and a software developer(Windows)"...
=====================================================
Hello Friends,
I have a question for all of the mobile developers. You might think I'm Joking. But its Serious. Is there any way to run android apps(2.1-2.3) in HTC HD2(Leo) which is running Windows Mobile? Many People Say 'NO'. But emulation of any OS is possible. We all thought that we can run PS2 games only on Sony Playstation 2 but we were proved wrong by PCSX2 by launching first PS2 Emulator. So I want to know is there any emulator by which I can run android apps on my HTC HD2? Its difficult but I think XDA Developers can make this type of emulators. It will also help thousands of people. I am an IT Professional and a software developer(Windows) but i don't know about developing apps for mobile. Otherwise would have made/wrote android apps in WM language/scripts. Some News also came that there are certain Converters which can convert Android Apps into J2ME or WM apps. I need a solution to this problem.
Regards,
Arun
Themegastar1 CEO
========================================
i'd take backlashsid's advice in post # 12 above....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can A teen not be IT Professionalist, or a Software Developer. I have created a browser, toolbar and other things so far. I know C++, What do you think, Kids can't do anything?
As I said in that forum/thread, I will create android emulator. And I am creating it now. Currently I study in G.S.Convent, and my exams have ended on 9th March 2011, and my new session begins on 1st April 2011, So What. I have just got to 9th Class. You should take out this from your mind that kids can't do anything. Search for Arun Wadhwa or Themegastar1 or Arun Themegastar1 and you will get all information about me. Please don't hurt any child's feeling. If you don't like the review, don't see my other reviews or don't comment, why are you not doing anything(writing review) and complaining.
My wife just said, "Ah, bless him".
[QUOTE If you don't like the review, don't see my other reviews or don't comment, why are you not doing anything(writing review) and complaining.[/QUOTE]
mate
- i did comment in page 1 of this thread and gave my own point thoughts
- i don't do reviews because i'm more than happy with my current hd2 android set up. i'd rather read the more helpful reviews of other members to get their tips and advise. not threads which are, as others have said, bs
- i don't go around starting threads stating which is the best os and i have answers to all the questions
- didn't say kids can't do anything. you made that assumption. for a "software developer" your reviews barely contained any technical details related to the field
- you're comparing credentials now? i'm the vp of quality in a firm engaged in developing programs, interfaces, software, scripts, xmls, etc, etc and more etc. i work for the government and they pay me what they pay me because they know i have the skills that enables me to successfully do my thing.
- i could probably develop a rom or an emulator or whatever related to android or wm or wp. the reason i don't is because there are gurus in this forum who do a better job than me. there are dudes in this forum who give better reviews and i listen to them.
this is a total waste of time. outta here dude. have fun.
themegastar1 said:
please don't hurt any child's feeling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
10characters
Here's my review
Windows Phone 7:
It is a new OS. Microsoft come up with this OS. This OS has blue tiles in the main screen, but you can change other colors too. It is a new OS so not many apps for the OS. Microsoft made this OS after 6.5. Some people call it Windows Mobile 7 which is wrong. WP7 is short for Windows Phone 7.
The OS still needs development which will take time for Microsoft. Big companies like LG is having WP7 on there phones. Small companies do not know what WP7 is. WP7 has many apps but all are not good. Only some apps are good.
backlashsid's rating: 9.1/10
-------------------------------------
Android:
Android is made by Google. Its also an exciting OS.Because Google is big people think Android is big. Android has many apps and is very popular among school kids because they use Google voice and messenger to chat in class while the professor is teaching. Big companies do not like Android because people are chatting while the CEO meeting is going on. Android has many apps which are good. One app is Google Search which allows you to search on Google everything you want including better Android review than mine. Android has bad user interface but HTC made a new User Interfaece called HTC Sense. Sense because people have common sense so HTC thought everyone will like Sense. But companies like Motorola have their own version of screen. Android sometimes hangs a little.
backlashsid's rating: 9.375/10
--------------------------------------
Windows Mobile 6.5
Very good OS.
Windows Mobile 6.5 is Microsofts OS which came many years ago. This is a very popular OS because many people use it. Even the God of cellphones the HD2 uses it.Windows Mobile 6.5 has bad user interface and bad apps. Marketplace doenst have nice apps and this makes the OS really bad. However with WM6.5 you can use apps like SPB Mobile shell to change the look and make it better. You can also use Coreplayer to watch movies. Windows Mobile 6.5 phones have bad hardware and less storage and RAM. People nowadays like more RAM and memory so WM6.5 is no good.
backlashsid's rating: 9.61/10
--------
I have not chose Ios because IOS is not an OS. It is IOS..
--------!
backlashsid said:
Windows Phone 7:
It is a new OS. Microsoft come up with this OS. This OS has blue tiles in the main screen, but you can change other colors too. It is a new OS so not many apps for the OS. Microsoft made this OS after 6.5. Some people call it Windows Mobile 7 which is wrong. WP7 is short for Windows Phone 7.
The OS still needs development which will take time for Microsoft. Big companies like LG is having WP7 on there phones. Small companies do not know what WP7 is. WP7 has many apps but all are not good. Only some apps are good.
backlashsid's rating: 9.1/10
-------------------------------------
Android:
Android is made by Google. Its also an exciting OS.Because Google is big people think Android is big. Android has many apps and is very popular among school kids because they use Google voice and messenger to chat in class while the professor is teaching. Big companies do not like Android because people are chatting while the CEO meeting is going on. Android has many apps which are good. One app is Google Search which allows you to search on Google everything you want including better Android review than mine. Android has bad user interface but HTC made a new User Interfaece called HTC Sense. Sense because people have common sense so HTC thought everyone will like Sense. But companies like Motorola have their own version of screen. Android sometimes hangs a little.
backlashsid's rating: 9.375/10
--------------------------------------
Windows Mobile 6.5
Very good OS.
Windows Mobile 6.5 is Microsofts OS which came many years ago. This is a very popular OS because many people use it. Even the God of cellphones the HD2 uses it.Windows Mobile 6.5 has bad user interface and bad apps. Marketplace doenst have nice apps and this makes the OS really bad. However with WM6.5 you can use apps like SPB Mobile shell to change the look and make it better. You can also use Coreplayer to watch movies. Windows Mobile 6.5 phones have bad hardware and less storage and RAM. People nowadays like more RAM and memory so WM6.5 is no good.
backlashsid's rating: 9.61/10
--------
I have not chose Ios because IOS is not an OS. It is IOS..
--------!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lmfaaaaaaao........................dudeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Yo, so I installed the windows phone 8 SDK today, only to figure out that most computers in this world will not run this SDK's emulator.
You will need in an i3 or better CPU from intel or equivalent from AMD (aka latest generation) to run the emulator.
You also have to run this emulator on windows 8 x64 (yep, it HAS to be x64, otherwise it won't work). This, by itself, asks for at least 4 GB of RAM to run the system at a decent speed, also forces you to upgrade to windows 8 (i got it for free due to msdn) and to get Visual Studio 12.
This is, in my opinion, a terrible move from microsoft.
Not everybody has CPUs that have all the requirements. In fact, not even all the newest CPUs have this requirement (Second Level Address Translation it is called). This, automatically, makes developers like me either:
get a new PC
Get a windows phone 8 device.
Luckily for me i have a fairly new laptop, which has an i3 CPU capable to run this stupid emulator.
On top of that, there comes the non-backward compatibility from wp8 to wp7.5 apps. Applications compiled for windows phone 8 SDK will not work on Windows phone 7.5, unless you make another project for 7.5, compile it as dll and reference it from your 8 app. This is kinda overkill.
Windows phone 8 will probably bring in a lot of users, but for developers, it is a blow to the head. I bet windows phone 8 submissions will be very, very low in the next 1 to 2 years.
So, is microsoft risking a bit too much with the switch from 7.5 to 8? On top of all the development slaughter, there's the non-upgradable old devices...
Good question , but it's been shockingly quiet in here. One would think that after a new launch the forum would be jumping with activity.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
vetvito said:
Good question , but it's been shockingly quiet in here. One would think that after a new launch the forum would be jumping with activity.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, to be honest, I think XDA isn't a good place for MS/WP anymore and I guess most of them know that. Just look at the front page, not even a single article/news about the Windows (Phone) 8 launch events. It's just android. Even the forum sections for the HTC 8X/S and Samsung ATIV S are missing whereas all the new Google devices have been added shortly after their announcement. So you see, even XDAdev isn't really well after Windows Phone at all.
morpheuszg said:
Well, to be honest, I think XDA isn't a good place for MS/WP anymore ....So you see, even XDAdev isn't really well after Windows Phone at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so, what forums do wp dev's hang out ?
Are there any lol? I saw about 6 new apps, and one of them (Pandora) won't be out until sometime in 2013!
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
MSDN forums for example or prior to launch those who were part of the developer preview program had a closed discussion forum on Microsoft Connect, die to the NDA it was not allowed to discuss the information publicly.
On the CPU requirements - yes it sucks and there are other issues with the Emulator like missing 3d acceleration die to the fact it uses HyperV which does not have that capability. Still I would not suggest for people to develop for any platform without being able to test on a real device. This will be possible even without the Emulator.
I disagree with your assumption that we won't see Apps for WP8. Devs who write software for Windows 8 also need a Windows 8 installation, so people who think of porting those Apps will most likely have the infrastructure in place already. For higher profile the costs of a development machine would not be that problematic and C++ as well as middleware support for many gaming engines will make for a lot easier porting of existing Games from other platforms.
The people for which these changes really suck are student developers lile you and me. Only my Windows tablet currently supports the Emulator (Core i5). But still it is a lot nicer then the situation with the Android Emulator in my experience. The later is running to slow for anything iseful on my Core 2 Quad Desktop so I have to use the device for debugging anyway. Additionally only the WP Emulators have Multi-Touch support so I can test those features without deploying to the device.
Concerning XDAs, it has always been more about hacking and tinkering on the system level then user software development. Given that Android due to it's Open Source nature allows for a lot more in that regard it takes no wonder that there is a lot more going on with those than witj WP. Also market share and number of devoces makes for a difference as well.
vetvito said:
Good question , but it's been shockingly quiet in here. One would think that after a new launch the forum would be jumping with activity.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All in all WP8 announcement was not that good...
also, they didn't release the SDK for us devs in order to build nice apps ready to be distributed for new win8 devices...Making us wait for months like if winphone had killer features hidden..and then it was the same old stuff so... i'm also considering to jump the android ship...
StevieBallz said:
MSDN forums for example or prior to launch those who were part of the developer preview program had a closed discussion forum on Microsoft Connect, die to the NDA it was not allowed to discuss the information publicly.
On the CPU requirements - yes it sucks and there are other issues with the Emulator like missing 3d acceleration die to the fact it uses HyperV which does not have that capability. Still I would not suggest for people to develop for any platform without being able to test on a real device. This will be possible even without the Emulator.
I disagree with your assumption that we won't see Apps for WP8. Devs who write software for Windows 8 also need a Windows 8 installation, so people who think of porting those Apps will most likely have the infrastructure in place already. For higher profile the costs of a development machine would not be that problematic and C++ as well as middleware support for many gaming engines will make for a lot easier porting of existing Games from other platforms.
The people for which these changes really suck are student developers lile you and me. Only my Windows tablet currently supports the Emulator (Core i5). But still it is a lot nicer then the situation with the Android Emulator in my experience. The later is running to slow for anything iseful on my Core 2 Quad Desktop so I have to use the device for debugging anyway. Additionally only the WP Emulators have Multi-Touch support so I can test those features without deploying to the device.
Concerning XDAs, it has always been more about hacking and tinkering on the system level then user software development. Given that Android due to it's Open Source nature allows for a lot more in that regard it takes no wonder that there is a lot more going on with those than witj WP. Also market share and number of devoces makes for a difference as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ya, I saw that w8 64bit was required to develope at all, and thought wow, why would you limit developers to a brand new unproven ecosystem?
the prehighschool kids are going to be the ones with real innovation, new thinking, and the next Facebook, (I hate fb, but you get the idea) without them, what do you have? Office? really , just Office?
ohgood said:
ya, I saw that w8 64bit was required to develope at all, and thought wow, why would you limit developers to a brand new unproven ecosystem?
the prehighschool kids are going to be the ones with real innovation, new thinking, and the next Facebook, (I hate fb, but you get the idea) without them, what do you have? Office? really , just Office?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
64 bit is likely to not be the big issue here. I haven't seen to many 32 bit Windows 7 machines. The more problematic move is to lock out everyone who is not using Windows 8. Given that students have access to Windows 8, Visual Studio and the Marketplace for free through Dreamspark that does not sound as that big an issue to me.
In the end it seems they had a reason to go with Hyper-V and Windows-8 simply is the only Desktop operating system which has Hyper-V functionality. The biggest problem is that hardware that is older then 2 years does not support the needed virtualization modes.
How the ecosystem argument plays into this I don't really understand but I guess you meant: new OS that has not that big an installed base yet. Well 4 million upgrades over the last 4 days, not counting the people who bought it with new Hardware or downloaded it from MSDN or Dreamspark it seems to go big rather quickly.
The emulator is a crucial part of application development.
I don't think you want to bring in your early app in alpha stages or even earlier than that on your phone, simply because:
a) you don't have it.
b) Your code might cause damage to the phone, especially on things that use hardware components like vibrators, camera, leds and stuff like that. An unleaded exception can wreck havoc on your phone.
c) The emulator is faster.
Yes, you will eventually need a windows phone 8 device before you publish it, but you should be able to develop your apps before you even have one...
The windows 8 issue is not big. The upgrade from win7 costs like 50 bucks. It is really not that much of an effort.
The insane hardware requirements are, however, and most PCs will not have them. From intel's side, only i3, i5 and i7 processors have what they need, and Pentium dual core for sandy bridge won't...
This is the biggest issue here.
ohgood said:
so, what forums do wp dev's hang out ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm just a noob, but i think when the devs don't hang out here they hang out nowhere or compared to android extremely rare so that it makes no sense to spend time on...
I wish WP8 RT a good future with Dualboot Android.