Database Users

Universal, jasJAR memory does not match specs

The reported/quoted imate specs say 128MB flash ROM and 64MB SDRAM.
My device reports:
Storage Memory Total 43.72MB
Program Memory Total 47.93MB
With no applications other than the branded OS installed (33.05MB 'In use by both Storage and Programs) giving that leaves
Storage Memory Free 30.47MB
Program Memory Free 28.14MB
Where is the missing 158MB of memory? How can I access the missing memory?
Also, what happens if I install applications to the SD card. Do they still work?

Yes, they would still work if you instlal programms on storage card.
This is strange, as I think there should be more storage memory than you have right now. About 17 Megs of your memory is also being used by useless cab files which were there for the first time install.. There are ways and means to reformat the drive and actually gain all this space (Extended_Rom) but it involves some advanced tricks in doing this. Nevertheless The rom should more storage not just 40 Megs (?) can someone else confirm this is the available ROM on the JasJar?

I can't add up
My earlier post should not say missing 158MB of memory, cause if you add up my figures there is just 100MB missing. Had a long day messing around with my new device, and as I say my maths ain't that hot anyway.
Thanks for the advice on installing apps to the storage card.

Same here 43.72MB Storage memory and 47.93MB Program memory.
Not happy.

memory
Expansys website states the following specs:
Memory
• Flash ROM: 128 MB
• RAM: 64 MB SDRAM
can be found here:
http://www.expansys.com.au/product.asp?code=119353
If it doesnt match, I would be sending it back, or sueing for false advertising.

What the hell is going on here, $1650 for this device and it has less memory than a Jam and lieing on the website. mmmmmmmm, I would be mad, real mad, someone should die for this, this is worse than the new Telstra boss.

memory
yeah i already ordered mine and am waiting on it to see. i know the way it interprets and runs is different to previous versions, ie my understanding is a hard reset retains its data, so it means it installs directly to ROM and stays there.
From that I can only summise that you can install a maximum of 128 meg of operating system and software direct to ROM, but can only run a maximum of 64 meg into RAM at any point in time, including the operating system, data, and applications.
Then you only use the RAM when you launch the applications, but this would also require the ppc to use some of it, which would appear to be about 20 meg from the previous stats, leaving a max of 40 meg to actually be running at any point in time.
Anyway, wait and see, hopefully should only be about a week as we are on the otherside of the world from where most people are getting them from.
Eitherway, it appears to the best state of the art phone currently available, so we'll just have to see.
Anybody that has already got one, how long does the battery last when running the WIFI? I know my XDAII with a Netgear CF can be drained in a little over 1 hour including the backpacks battery and the main battery.

ROM and RAM size fine
On my JASJAR bought in Dubai yesterday the Device Information says:
RAM Size:64Mb
Flash Size: 128MB
The way Windows Mobile 5.0 manages memory is differnet to Windows Mobile as all the memory is persistent. So you don't lose your data when the device powers off.
But it uses the RAM and ROM more like a PC. The Memory Settings area shows the Storage and Program memories.
The 128Mb of ROM is used for storing the Operating System and for storing user data! The OS takes up about 84.5Mb, leaving on my device 43.5Mb for Storage.
The 64Mb RAM is RAM for running programs. The OS takes about 16Mb at runtime leaving the 47.93Mb Program memory for me to run my programs.

Re: ROM and RAM size fine
vpreHoose said:
On my JASJAR bought in Dubai yesterday the Device Information says:
RAM Size:64Mb
Flash Size: 128MB
The way Windows Mobile 5.0 manages memory is differnet to Windows Mobile as all the memory is persistent. So you don't lose your data when the device powers off.
But it uses the RAM and ROM more like a PC. The Memory Settings area shows the Storage and Program memories.
The 128Mb of ROM is used for storing the Operating System and for storing user data! The OS takes up about 84.5Mb, leaving on my device 43.5Mb for Storage.
The 64Mb RAM is RAM for running programs. The OS takes about 16Mb at runtime leaving the 47.93Mb Program memory for me to run my programs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how much price did u pay for imate jasjar in Dubai.
thx

I am dissapointed. My PDA2K has all my major apps installed and still has 18MB free.
The jasJAR with just tomtom5 installed has only 20MB free.

The OS takes up about 84.5Mb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh? when i loaded 2005 on my BA, the OS was 32mb???

20080616> Can WM 6.1 have 64 MB Program Memory?

Requests/suggestions please for WM 6.1 cookers considering their next release:
- 64 MB Program Memory
- Absolute bare skeleton WM 6.1
- essential candidates for removal:
> customer feedback
> windows live
> any windows help & support related bloatware
> error reporting
> search
> windows media player
> any animated items, icons, etc..
> junk items under \windows; unnecessary gif,jpg,bmp,png
etc, text files
- single boot screen, no splash, animations etc..
minimize WM 6.1 boot time
- removal of other misc bloatware, vaporware that are not
core to the function, speed and stability of WM 6.1
======================================================
To the site Administrators:
-------------------------
- can we initiate a donation bucket in which people may contribute
and pool donations?
- 1 month period (or other) in which donations can be collected and
cookers may submit their best releases
- the people (users) vote during the period on what they find to be
the most efficient, stable, fast, clean and best performing rom.
- at the end of the period the donation pool is distributed to the top 3
most voted cookers, e.g. 60%/25%/15% respectively.
======================================================
Suggestions, ideas, recommendations, criticism etc certainly
welcome.
Thanks to all
--kara

64M program memory mean No WM.

why?
is there a maximum?
Thanks,

ks1781 said:
why?
is there a maximum?
Thanks,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you are really someone )
Trinity have only 64MB build in , how come it have 64MB program memory ? DId you have brain ?

--yes,
if the device has 64 MB SDRAM, why is it that most cooked roms
generally present approx. 50 MB of that?
is this a limitation or is missing 14 MB used for a special purpose?
Thanks for any advice.

?? because it takes up space to install the operating system.. even a 'bare bones' operating system is still an operating system..
did you ever wonder why there's space missing from your hard drive after you install windows xp?

http://www.htc.com/www/product.aspx?id=470
Memory ROM: 128 MB
RAM: 64 MB SDRAM
What is the ROM 128 MB designated for?
Thanks for your patience with me.
--kara

if i understand him correctly, he is referring to the program memory i.e. RAM not ROM. the 128MB ROM is meant for installation of OS (WM) where the 64MB RAM is the execution power. we normally get ~20MB-25MB RAM free out of 64MB total. i believed the rest (64MB - 25MB) was used for other services once WM started.

yes, that is what i'm trying to understand..
in this p3600 specification from HTC:
http://www.htc.com/www/product.aspx?id=470
it lists>
128 MB ROM
64 MB RAM
=================================================
for the 128 MB ROM
I assume the 128 MB ROM contains the OS installation, with
some component of this ROM hidden/reserved.
E.g. some cooked roms released have 'Big Storage'
~70 MB available to the user for NV storage
the remaining 58 MB comprises OS installation and a reserved
area.
=================================================
for the 64 MB RAM
This is the volatile memory available for the OS to boot & run, and
for program execution.
However, on most cooked roms I have used, under
Settings -> System -> Memory
'Program Total' is reported as ~50 MB.
So my question is - where is the remaining 14 MB RAM??

as dum as it sounds i've wondered about that too
even formatting issues aside (like how hard drive capacity is always lower than reported), 14MB seems like a lot to 'go missing'.
why doesnt WM even report it? because its being used by the system for services? so then why does it ALSO report itself using around 20MB of what's left?
that way, it's like 14 MB used (hidden) + approx. 20MB reported (shown) = approx. 34MB total? :/ hmm

ks1781 said:
So my question is - where is the remaining 14 MB RAM??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK - You have a PC with 1GB of RAM say. Once say windows xp has booted up - your AV started etc. you probably have 684MB say of RAM left, so Where did the other 340MB of RAM go to?
Think about it.

wtf i still don't get it... dont be mad
i mean mine reports 2096236 KB... a full 2048MB of RAM
BUT of course 100-300 minimum will always be in use for the system itself
whereas in WM, it reports like 48MB total, AND say approx. 20MB in use
ok so the 20MB minimum in use will ALWAYS be in use because of windows mobile itself. FINE.
but why does it only represent 48MB as available?
and if that is the case, there's that missing unreported 12MB, PLUS that minimum 20MB always in use
that's what im curious about

Just think that Windows XP takes 250/300 mb of ram space....
PS: Please edit your title... Someone could understand that you really have a 64mb free ram rom......

joncgde2 said:
wtf i still don't get it... dont be mad
i mean mine reports 2096236 KB... a full 2048MB of RAM
BUT of course 100-300 minimum will always be in use for the system itself
whereas in WM, it reports like 48MB total, AND say approx. 20MB in use
ok so the 20MB minimum in use will ALWAYS be in use because of windows mobile itself. FINE.
but why does it only represent 48MB as available?
and if that is the case, there's that missing unreported 12MB, PLUS that minimum 20MB always in use
that's what im curious about
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe it is for the Radio Rom etc...or maybe Microsoft are stealing Ram and stockpiling it....lol

This is actually a valid question.
The system has 64MB of ram, some how 14MB of this ram is allocated away before the OS loads. This leaves 50MB of ram left for the OS, which uses about 20 MB and leaves 30 MB of ram for applications.
I think everyone understands this part.
The question is, what part of the phone is pre-allocating 14MB of ram.
My only guess is the videocard, if not that then it might be the pagefile.

tetsuo55 said:
This is actually a valid question.
The system has 64MB of ram, some how 14MB of this ram is allocated away before the OS loads. This leaves 50MB of ram left for the OS, which uses about 20 MB and leaves 30 MB of ram for applications.
I think everyone understands this part.
The question is, what part of the phone is pre-allocating 14MB of ram.
My only guess is the videocard, if not that then it might be the pagefile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does it really matter where it goes? Obviously if that memory hasn't been exploited yet by the excellent cookers etc in here....then it can't be of any benefit.

I concur with tetsuo55.
The reasoning proposed by Andych and others still does not quite
correlate.
i.e. 64 = 14 (OS) + ~20 (progs) + ~30 free
the ~20 is supposedly attributed to basic progs,
e.g. phone, filesys, mail etc..
A listing of such process summates to approx. 8 MB total.
That still leaves 12 MB of unaccounted for basic function
and userland process consumption.
Regarding the ATI video chip, general investigation and
settings check of tcpmp would suggest at best it is a
4 MB chip (whether dedicated or shared)
I cant see the 'remaining ~14 MB' that I'm searching for
being used for paging. Paging is part of overall virtual memory,
and involves page outs/ins to a location on some type
of physical media. Additionally, with the usual ~ 30 MB
ram free, in the context of these devices, a swap requirement
is unlikely given the 'free' memory available.
Although 14 MB may seem peanuts compared to standard desktop
ram configurations today - with a p3600 + WM, recovering the
14 MB (if possible) would provide a much welcomed bonus to
the trinity.
--kara

ahh now we're onto something good work ks1781...
i fully agree with the need to just find out the answer to this... most likely it's something that will be perfectly explainable and make sense and we won't be able to do anything once we find out
but it sure would be nice to know

OK I have the 'answer' - straight from a Windows Mobile blog - I'll post it here cos it's all straight to the point and interesting (somewhat) Link is HERE
The Page Pool
Applications use RAM in two ways. There is code that runs, and there is data that is created while it is running. On a NOR device, the code can run directly from the ROM and not be loaded into RAM first. This process is called XIP (eXecute In Place). NAND devices can't XIP, so their code is loaded into RAM and executed from there. If you don't have a Page Pool, this code is loaded into normal RAM. The Page Pool is a mechanism to limit how much code is loaded into normal RAM. With a Page Pool, we can unload code that hasn't been used in a while and reload it later if we need to. We can't do that without a Page Pool.
On a typical NAND-based WM5 device, the Page Pool is 4.5M.
The Radio Stack
Devices with a Cellular Radio have a complicated bunch of code to make their radios talk to cell towers. On some devices, the radio is a self-contained module with its own RAM and ROM. On others, the radio code is stored in the normal system flash. If so, it either needs to XIP, or it needs to be run in RAM. If it's run in RAM, that RAM is taken away from the system.
A typical radio stack takes 4M.
DMA Buffers
Some hardware can write directly into RAM without using the CPU to do it. This is called "Direct Memory Access" or DMA. DMA is very efficient and lets you get a lot more data transferred in the same amount of time, usually for less power. But it's best to set aside your DMA buffers before the system boots. This guarantees that they're there when you need them. PocketPCs have been doing this for a decade. But, back in the old days, the main use for DMA was audio capture. Audio data is small, so the DMA buffers are also small. Video, on the other hand, is big. More data requires bigger DMA buffers.
An OEM will tune the size of the pre-allocated DMA buffers based on what the device is intended to do. If the main goal is still photos, you can use a much smaller buffer. If the goal is recording video, it needs a much larger buffer. If the goal is video conferencing, it needs a bigger buffer still.
DMA buffers range in size between 300K and 6M. For a video capture device, it's likely to use around 4M.
XIPKernel
There are portions of the deepest parts of the OS that have to XIP. If you're on NOR, that code just XIPs like everything else. Not so on NAND. For a NAND system to boot, it needs to load this code into RAM first and then run it from there. When the system is running, it can't really tell if it's running from RAM or ROM, so it assumes it's running from ROM and doesn't count this space.
The XIPKernel region tends to be between 1.5 and 2M.
The Frame Buffer
There is a chunk of RAM set aside to hold everything that's on the screen. (If you want to know more about it, read this.) On most devices, every dot on the screen needs two bytes. A typical Pocket PC has 240x320 dots. That would be 300K. If you have a 640x480 screen, it's 600K. Sometimes, for performance reasons, devices will have two frame buffers. So this could take up to 1.2M.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Thanks joncgde2 - good find which provides a sufficient explanation as to the 'hidden' 14 MB.
There is still another question.
WM reports ~24 MB in use (per earlier screen captures) - where 'in use'
is attributed to running applications.
Checking a process listing via task manager shows the total
apparent RAM in use by these 'running applications' to be ~8 MB.
Can anyone provide an explanation to account for the
remaining ~16 MB??

My htc hd2 has only 336,96 ram?

HELLO!
My htc hd2 has only 336,96 ram but why?
cause i have o2 branding? Can i use all of the ram?
Thanks

I just checked my phone too. And i have 336,93 MB.
My hd2 is "Swedish"

yeah, so wtf? we got only 200 mb on the device and 336 ram?
WHY?

Uzb3k said:
HELLO!
My htc hd2 has only 336,96 ram but why?
cause i have o2 branding? Can i use all of the ram?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
100 mega of memory are used for system process other 100+ mega are hidden in all the rom not based on 2.0x t mobile rom

that's correct, phone has 448, 128 set aside for graphics = 320mb.
how much did you think it had?
if you want the hidden 128 you ned to flash different rom and radio.

ok but what about the space? only 200 mb, where are the whole 512 mb of space? and how can I disable some services, because my free ram is only about 190 mb?
THANKS!

alot of the space you lose is taken up by the programs that come preinstalled (copilot etc...) as for freeing up space etc there is a good thread on here somewhere in the ROMs section that tells you what you can delete to free up space. Also SK Tools is pretty good. As for the missing storage i dont know where this goes either. We should have 512 but it never seems to get more than 250 - 300 at a push. I think some will be set aside for Core stuff and some will be the way the OS reads the space anyway (look at your PC HDD for example)
If you need more Ram then you will need to flash a cooked ROM. There is not that much you can do to the stock one to free up that much more.

David Balfour said:
As for the missing storage i dont know where this goes either. We should have 512 but it never seems to get more than 250 - 300 at a push.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
correct, the system rom and radio rom takes up around 250 meg.

193.68MB Storage Size and 336.37MB program memory ?

Hi all, I am new to winmo.
I just have my leo 1 month ago.
and below is my hardware information.
ROM version 1.66.707.1 (76641) WWE
Radio version 2.06.51.07
storage memory 193.68MB (does it consider as ROM?)
Program Memory 336.37MB (does it consider as RAM?)
I was wondering why my storage and program memory is different from the official spec, which has 512MB ROM and 448MB RAM?
i have installed most of the program in memory card but i still found that 193.68MB storage memory is not enough for me... most of time i only left 40MB storage memory... anything i can do to increase it?
I have read from somewhere said window system has taken out some space from the 512MB and that is why only left 193.68MB. But does it really need 318.32MB for the windows system? if really all goes for the window system, why the folder "\windows" still count into the poor remaining 193.68MB?
Thanks in advance....

Those amounts you have seen on your device are what is left after WinMo has taken its cut. This is the same as a PC, if you buy a 200Gb hard drive, after formatting and Windows/Linux install, you're talking at least 50-60Gb less than the advertised 200Gb.
Same with RAM, WinMo still needs memory for itself, same as a PC.
So, with 512Mb ROM -
WinMo + formatting has used 300ish Mb.
What are you storing on your Main storage?

rp-x1 said:
Those amounts you have seen on your device are what is left after WinMo has taken its cut. This is the same as a PC, if you buy a 200Gb hard drive, after formatting and Windows/Linux install, you're talking at least 50-60Gb less than the advertised 200Gb.
Same with RAM, WinMo still needs memory for itself, same as a PC.
So, with 512Mb ROM -
WinMo + formatting has used 300ish Mb.
What are you storing on your Main storage?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
50-60Gb Windows install? I know its bloated but you'd be hard pressed to get even half way to 50Gb...

Starfury said:
50-60Gb Windows install? I know its bloated but you'd be hard pressed to get even half way to 50Gb...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well 128Gb binary is 137Gb in terms of manufacturers' marketing, so you lose around 15Gb (on a 200Gb HDD) before you start.
Installing Win7 has taken up 20Gb on my machine with office (800ish Mb) so in total, I'd have used up 35Gb
It was just an off the cuff example to say that the total capacity is already taken up with an OS and formatting before you even start.

I found that there are a lot of space taken by HTC album and google maps as caches... any way to limit the caches or move the caches to memory card?

rp-x1 said:
well 128Gb binary is 137Gb in terms of manufacturers' marketing, so you lose around 15Gb (on a 200Gb HDD) before you start.
Installing Win7 has taken up 20Gb on my machine with office (800ish Mb) so in total, I'd have used up 35Gb
It was just an off the cuff example to say that the total capacity is already taken up with an OS and formatting before you even start.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All the operating system is in ROM before you start the phone and when in use the RAM reduces depending on the calls from ROM, apps running and functions opened and in use.
For info I have
512Mb of flash ROM
576Mb of operating RAM
272.49 Mb of non volatile storage.

Storage memory on HD2

I started getting warnings on low "Storage Space" on my HD2. This is weired, since I keep my documents and apps on SD. I only installed few very small apps after flashing Energy ROM onto HD2.
I have checked memory allocation and it seams total memory is allocated towards Program and Storage (as in attached picture). I can see that free "Storage Memory" is rather low, but I am not sure on :
1.What is using it. When looking into File explorer, you can't see if the file is using Storage memory or Program memory. I even clicked on "Find large file using storage memory". It found many files, but all of them where on SD... so it should not cause the problem I have.
2. How to reallocate some memory allocated to "Program" into "Storage".
I have Android running from my SD, but I expect this should be only using memory on SD, right?

... and yes, it is very annoying, since it reminds about short memory every time I turn my phone on...

Same problem. 3 days I have HD2, I install Radio Leo 2.15.50.14 and Energy.Leo.29007.Sense2.5.Cookie.2.0.Dec.27 (576MB RAM) and I have:
Storage size (Total storage): 200,27 MB (Used 65,30)
Total program: 449,22 MB (Used 170,33 MB)
But after installing few apps I had only 20MB free space, but more 200MB free program RAM. But for program is enough about 50-80 free RAM, 200 MB is unnecessary...
On my Xperia X1 with 826x ROM i have Total storage 295 MB and Program 191,25 MB and it´s fine.
I´m trying some else ROMs, but not with better parameters.
Here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSsCdwY9ngM I can see 290MB Total storage, but which ROM is it??? Or is possible somehow transferred memory from Program (RAM) to Total storage?

The problem may be with hidden caches, as in temp. internet files.

I´ve tested about 20 ROMs, and I found 3 good ROMs with large internal storage.
Best looks me Chucks ROMs http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=618787
- Lite Chucky version (but lite for Chuck - has many program and utils) has 310MB Free
- Tabtastic has 251 free
both are in GTX (white) skin, but he has there links for some old ROMs, where are some dark ROMs
And 256MB free has http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=684646
But I only flash these ROMs, testing will come, but looks without bugs (I hope). ;-)

storage
mine using standard rom 3.14 supplied by htc.
just do some tweaks as suggested
application installed
garmin
tcpmp
opera 10
freda
task bar colour
google map
chteditor
cht
cleam ram
rar pocket
phm registry
cleartemp
nodata
wifi no standby
incall rec.
disable vsync sense
used storage 37mb
so far no bug at all. smooth n clean.
i noticed in window folder there is opera9 consumed 7.8mb.
how to delete this file?

fred_up said:
The problem may be with hidden caches, as in temp. internet files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not that I have used phone browsing a lot, but I could give it a try to clear those hidden caches. Any idea how?

TwinCZ said:
Same problem. 3 days I have HD2, I install Radio Leo 2.15.50.14 and Energy.Leo.29007.Sense2.5.Cookie.2.0.Dec.27 (576MB RAM) and I have:
Storage size (Total storage): 200,27 MB (Used 65,30)
Total program: 449,22 MB (Used 170,33 MB)
But after installing few apps I had only 20MB free space, but more 200MB free program RAM. But for program is enough about 50-80 free RAM, 200 MB is unnecessary...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the key questions are:
1. How to find out what files are using that Storage Memory. If I see that, I might figure out what I can delete.
2. How to reallocate memory from Program Memory to Storage Memory

ajocius said:
I think the key questions are:
1. How to find out what files are using that Storage Memory. If I see that, I might figure out what I can delete.
2. How to reallocate memory from Program Memory to Storage Memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, you´re right, but:
1) too much work with unclear results
2) I didn´t find this answer (I think there is no way to reallocate memory outside ROM cooking)
So for me is simpler test ROMs and find the best, and the 3 ROMs above look usably...

I can't believe that cook like Energy, whos ROM's are used by most users would leave only memory for 2 new apps to be installed after fresh ROM... There is something either wrong in my understanding, or just needs some simple entry in registry or similar.
Common people

ajocius said:
I can't believe that cook like Energy, whos ROM's are used by most users would leave only memory for 2 new apps to be installed after fresh ROM... There is something either wrong in my understanding, or just needs some simple entry in registry or similar.
Common people
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not for 2 new apps, after flashing you have 130MB free, but after 5-7 apps and some ringtones I had 20MB. I have X1 with more 15 apps and same ringtones and I have 70MB free, thats enough, and same I want from my HD2. And I don´t understand, why Energy has after flash 200MB total and 66MB used, and Chucky´s ROM has 250-310MB total and 18-28 used. And same ore more apps and utils inside...

Have removed all apps via "manage applications" still low storage memory.... I will need new ROM as it looks... I have Energy ROM on my Pro2 device, and there I have 178 MB free storage memory. Go figure...

Energy ROMs I used all time on my Xperia X1 and there were wery good with enough free storage for me, so with these good experience first ROM which I install to my new HD2 was Energy too, but after I found the problem with low storage... So maybe the problem with storage is only for HD2, if you have on TP2 180MB free, this looks enough. ;-)
Now I have in HD2 ChuckyDexterDarkOne and I have 283MB Total, 172 Used (after install every apps and files which I want in Internal storage - after HR was used about 20MB only with a lot of apps and tools inside the ROM) and 111 free... ;-) NICE ;-)