Related
Okie dokie, simple plan to directly compare clean ROMs from the cooks without opinions or bias.
I believe the general idea was to either add a new table to the Wiki or modify the existing tables in the ROMs section, to display standardised benchmark result, ie all from the same version following a set of instructions
those might be, flash ROM, hard reset, install bench mark programs, softrest, softrest run benches with radio on/off
Could be expanded to include basic battery life i dont think having call time / sms count would be helpful as its too unpredictable. but perhaps standby time and or wifi/bluetooth turned on but not connected.
I dont think its about real world tests since we cant have opinions, its a simple OS comparison.
course, for all i know there will be almost nothing between any of them making it redundant so this is why im making this thread, to talk it out and see if its worth while.
and you are starting this "new" thread as a result of my ideea and proposal
wouldn't have been nice to mention?
Benchmarking will give you a very incomplete picture of how a rom is actually going to perform, and therefore will be a virtually worthless use of your time. The real performance of a rom is gonna very significantly based on what software you use, which versions of the software you use, and sometimes even the order in which you install it. There is no consistent reliable benchmarking tool that i have seen as any useful indicator of actual speed of a rom.
The best way to find out about what rom will suit your needs is to read the frist couple posts, then kinda browse through the thread to see which bugs people are posting most regularly. When i was testing the WM6.5 roms, I had no issues with the fact that some people had exchange issues, because I was not having them, but eventually the fact that the notifications weren't working correctly caused me to change to something else. I tried another rom with some TP2 features, and generally liked it, but MyPhone didn't work correctly on that roms for whatever reason.
The point I'm trying to make is that there is no such thing as an unbiased benchmarking, because if we only test them all with no software installed, running clean then you're gonna find that almost all roms score similarly. Even more to the point, I simply have never seen a benchmarking program which had results which were indicative of any real world performance, and as such, I have disregarded the use of them entirely.
If you're happy with the rom you're on, then keep it. If not then read a few threads, see what is out there and then based on a little bit of research try one. If you don't like it, then try another one or even go back to the old one.
noris08 said:
and you are starting this "new" thread as a result of my ideea and proposal
wouldn't have been nice to mention?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, looking after my 3 year old today, pulling my hair out, damn cheeky monkey!but yes totally based on your idea, just wanted to make the link in the old post before it got the chop ill edit the original post in a min
scotchua said:
Benchmarking will give you a very incomplete picture of how a rom is actually going to perform, and therefore will be a virtually worthless use of your time. The real performance of a rom is gonna very significantly based on what software you use, which versions of the software you use, and sometimes even the order in which you install it. There is no consistent reliable benchmarking tool that i have seen as any useful indicator of actual speed of a rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
amen to that!
just making a little bit of reading and got scared by the possibility of threads about "witch ROM is better" beeing aloud
this is going to end badly as i already know that from the trinity forum and from the diamond forum. the forum is going to be cluttered only because a few lazy sobs are not ready to spend a few moments reading the ROM's threads and drawing their own conclusions. it is enough to read the first page, one of every 3 pages and the last one in a ROM thread to understand what is all about.
not only that but when the thread is going to be too long some smart ass is going to open another (he has no time to read a l l those pages)...and than another. please, stop the madness
scotchua said:
The real performance of a rom is gonna very significantly based on what software you use, which versions of the software you use, and sometimes even the order in which you install it. There is no consistent reliable benchmarking tool that i have seen as any useful indicator of actual speed of a rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, to compare ROMs completely requires opinions and subjectional review but since ive not tried this idea on different ROMs i couldnt say for sure what the results would hold.
Once upon a time, before the internet age, there were "Informatics" and "personal computers"
We had a problem: every shop sell HIS PC, assembling HW and assessing "My PC is the faster one". Also many TWEAKS were proposed for DOS and applications (This was before Egyptians I believe...)
The solution?
We built a SUITE, using a scripting tecnique, EMULATING REAL LIFE USER and measuring time, memory usage, battery load, CPU load...
Instead of using commercial benchmarks, because we don't care really about the file system speed, scrolling a large DIR matters, or rotating the screen speed.
We emulated a PRO user and a FUN user, opening a standard office file, starting and closing TT7 or video player speed with standard app (es. TCPMP) , opening an IE page, internet speed, scrolling a LOOOONG contact list, anything you consider as normal life usage.
A script could be used to start every single task and measuring the time.
AND IMHO THIS will be the killer application, comparing different ROM, devices, Diamond is faster than HD? and Kaiser? WVGA how slower is in REAL LIFE?
i belive you miss the point
this is supposed to be a tool helping people with less time or experience to choose the rom that is more appropiate to them
and maybe even help the developers to improve their work
as in the original thread is mentioned it isn't ment to say which rom "rules"
but, as i already said, if people will find this useless, or discussion will degenerate, a mod can close the thread anytime
noris08 said:
i belive you miss the point
this is supposed to be a tool helping people with less time or experience to choose the rom that is more appropiate to them
and maybe even help the developers to improve their work
as in the original thread is mentioned it isn't ment to say which rom "rules"
but, as i already said, if people will find this useless, or discussion will degenerate, a mod can close the thread anytime
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think we missed the point, just trying to share from experience why benchmarking isn't a particularly useful gauge to users trying to pick a rom. If you don't have the time to look around then i'd actually suggest just picking a rom based on what you read in the first couple posts describing it. Also that type of users should just pick a rom that is fuller with more programs installed by default.
Great idea, but will it ever be real?
While it's possible to devise a set of benchmarks and some kind of subjective scoring algorithm, the measurement accuracy will depend on too many factors and the result is likely to be unreliable and inconsistent. Seeing how many various ROMs based on the same OS builds are getting very different ratings in ROM benchmarking threads, real life performance seems to depend on every modification implemented in a ROM. E.g. even if the difference between ROMs is merely in a few files or a few registry keys, you'll probably end up comparing apples to oranges so this won't be very useful.
stepw said:
Great idea, but will it ever be real?
While it's possible to devise a set of benchmarks and some kind of subjective scoring algorithm, the measurement accuracy will depend on too many factors and the result is likely to be unreliable and inconsistent. Seeing how many various ROMs based on the same OS builds are getting very different ratings in ROM benchmarking threads, real life performance seems to depend on every modification implemented in a ROM. E.g. even if the difference between ROMs is merely in a few files or a few registry keys, you'll probably end up comparing apples to oranges so this won't be very useful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must agree to that! At the end of the day, it all comes down to what started this thread: the personal feeling a user gets when using a ROM in his own particular way of using it, which is totally different and uncomparable with other's.
it seems that i can not make you see my point
i will say it for the last time
my original ideea was NOT to compare one rom to another rom.
that will only lead us to square one - which rom is best
AND THIS IS NOT THE POINT!
whatever!
i'll give up
cheers!
tnyynt said:
I must agree to that! At the end of the day, it all comes down to what started this thread: the personal feeling a user gets when using a ROM in his own particular way of using it, which is totally different and uncomparable with other's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Benchmarking suite....
1) Free memory, storage mem at first start
2) Boot up time (measured with a simple program started at the end of the boot)
3) Search a string (time)
4) Open a complex word document (time)
5) open a complex excel document (time)
5) Active sync connected, open a simple web page, time, open a a Complex web page (success, time) (IE)
6) Open a LOCAL complex web page, scrolling, (time)
7) Restoring 4000 contacts (pimbackup, success, time)
8) Restoring 2000 SMS (pimbackup, success, time)
9) TT7 startup and close (or other BIG software, time)
10) TCPMP standard video player performance (direct draw, accelerated)
3 times each test, % of battery resulting startin with a full charge (these are only examples, just to explain better the point)
noris08 said:
it seems that i can not make you see my point
i will say it for the last time
my original ideea was NOT to compare one rom to another rom.
that will only lead us to square one - which rom is best
AND THIS IS NOT THE POINT!
whatever!
i'll give up
cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree to noris08!
this thread is not what was the original intention
i doen't want to know if some rom is about 10ms faster than other rom as i have readed in other threads where one published his benchmark score 2635. and a user posted the question if his device fails because he comes "only" to score 2450 e.g.
no, for example i testet 5 ROMs from 4 chefs.
i would be able to tell the reason for choosing the actual ROM on my HD. There where many facts hardly subjective opinions for choosen that! I think if a user would describe his decision respectfully to the hard work of the cockers this will help all of us.
if the guy is wrong other users can reply with their opposite experiences he knows it is worth to look for the reason on his device(configuration).
We all know speed, good feeling depends on many factors. so only a respectful discussion will help users and chefs.
even when user are telling a specific ROM is slower than other specific rom, other users can agree or disagree. if one is telling it is slow and many others reply the opposite this is a useful information for the user and the chef. chef get the response his rom seems to work fine. otherwise the chief get the information his rom leaks in speed and there are further tuning possibilities because other rom look to be faster.
I would find a thread e.g.
"Your experences with different ROMS" or
"what rom do you use and which property or feature do you like extra"
maybe useful.
If someone is posting: "ROM X ist the best" useres are old enough to know that this is not a meaningful post.
I would like to read postings like:
I am using ROM XY - has great looking german keyboard with äöüÄÖÜß - very stable (softreset max. 1 in 2 Weeks ) Battery: without Backligth and no running program and no dataconnection only 60mA i experienced a "normal" value, in suspendmode over night max. 1% Power loss although G-Alarm and phone active ) overall good responses.
are you guys so scared of whos rom will be the fastest??
end of the line the fastest rom will be the one better built. (the one more tweaked)
its like talking to ppl :
"wow its stupid comparing a dell pc to a alienware pc with the same hardware"
why??
its like if someone is a fanboy of ati and never admits a nvidia car will perform better & vice-versa
and of course as like the nvidia & ati cards, not only hardware will make a difference.
do you want to know how it really should look a ROM review?! did you ever imagine how complex a ROM is to build a ROM? do you know what is the difference between a good and a bad ROM? here u have an example from one expert i'll trust with an opinion!
the-equinoxe said:
Cooking a ROM isn't just trowing a few packages, and some registry fixes in a kitchen and press build..
It's knowing why a ROM behaves in a certain way, and fixing unwanted behaviour.
It's knowing what happens when you cook a ROM, what the scripts in your kitchen are supposed to do, and what the are actually doing(!!).
It's knowing this and so much more..
I have seen ROMs released lately where the XIP wasn't rebased, where the rgu's were contradicting the hv files and worse: where RGU from package a was contradicting the RGU from package B. (and even worse: A contradicting B but both contradicting HV..).
Why not simply import the RGU's into the HV files first? and check the rgu files, or for fraks sake, merge them!
Some had added certificates, but the cook didn't knew that the base he was using was already patched to ignore all certificates.
Why on earth clutter the ROM with unnecessary certificates? Really WHY?
I have seen cooks adding XIP of a higher build but using the OS of a lower build, just to get a high build number. (some just plain hexedit the build number :s )
This simply makes me puke, why on earth would you add an UNMATCHING XIP in another OS? You would think that that unmatched part was the cause of some unexpected bugs, wouldn't you..
Or massive amounts of files that are moved from root (=\\windows) to some kind of subdirectory, it seems that the chefs who are doing this are unaware that they aren't MOVING but COPYING the files (jups, that was bad design from microsoft)
Why concentrate on the build number?
A higher build number doesn't make a better ROM.
Focus on making a ROM BETTER, fix those contradicting registry entries, there are plenty of tools out there to ease your work nowadays, it can be done in hours instead of weeks.
Rebase those files that are supposed to be XIP, don't leave it unaltered and most certainly don't make it a PE-file (like dll or EXE), you will have unpredictable occurrences of drivers unloading from memory when doing this, and other crazy bugs that are hard to pinpoint.
And if another chef removes those dsm files and replaces all RGU's with one (or just simply stay with the HV) ,it's mostly not to piss off other chefs so it can't be shared, but to make the ROM better and faster.
Etc etc etc etc.. (I could go on and on.. really ! The curse of the kitchens I called it)
This is not a Flame to a certain Chef, or even directed at this particular Forum, I have many devices, and I have flashed them a lot, sometimes I take the time to analyze a ROM, and I have been amazed what junk has been produced by some..
The main idea of a cooked ROM is to have a better device with fewer bugs, not a fancy picture, nor to have the highest number..
So in some cases the cure is worse than the problem..
I am not going to single out a bad cook, nor a good cook, there are plenty of both..
Some will see this as a personal attack, personally: I don't care, if you claim to be a Top-chef, but don't know the basics of cooking, call yourself what you want, but don't expect me (or others) to be fooled.
I am just saying: instead of focusing on a high build number, or a (bug ridden) beta, focus on what you are actually doing.
Take a stable ROM, and make that one better, most AKUs are intended to support newer devices, and newer hardware, a higher AKU doesn't mean the ROM is better (it could have new bugs to deal with).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the whole post is here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3387292&postcount=76
KukurikU said:
did you ever imagine how complex a ROM is to build a ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry, but this does not subject this thread and nobody doubts about ROM cooking is not a simple job! thanks to all chefs!!!!
KukurikU said:
do you know what is the difference between a good and a bad ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from the user's viewpoint i think its clear and software is made for users. user do not mandatory want to know whats behind the scenery in deepth. user want a device with software with basic properties and naturally many cool features - lets say:
a stable ROM with all features he needs for daily use, cool features for fun and suitable speed. if the userinterface have a appealing design also it's nearly perfect!
and here we are back again:
"what features or properties do you like most"
would help users to find out, what is the best for him!
this is naturaly only my opinion
P.S: Sorry for my suggestion to open a thread, i just found a thread with such a Subject!!!!!
autdev said:
sorry, but this does not subject this thread and nobody doubts about ROM cooking is not a simple job! thanks to all chefs!!!!
from the user's viewpoint i think its clear and software is made for users. user do not mandatory want to know whats behind the scenery in deepth. user want a device with software with basic properties and naturally many cool features - lets say:
a stable ROM with all features he needs for daily use, cool features for fun and suitable speed. if the userinterface have a appealing design also it's nearly perfect!
and here we are back again:
"what features or properties do you like most"
would help users to find out, what is the best for him!
this is naturaly only my opinion
P.S: Sorry for my suggestion to open a thread, i just found a thread with such a Subject!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cool features and appealing design in a rotten ROM means high battey consumption, frequent freezes and soft resets and so on...
i think i wasn't clear enough in my previous post. what i meant (in a nut shell) was that because of it's complexity deciding that a ROM is good, less good or bad is a professional's job. only an expert can give you a trustworthy opinion.
the moment somebody starts a "what is the best ROM for me" everybody will jump in and push the ROM he is using. after a while the thread will be cluttered with hundreds of honest but unprofessional opinions and you'll have on one page 8-9 different opinions. does this make yr decision of choosing a ROM easier?? i don't think so! so, back to square one
in my wet dreams i see a thread filled with posts of "ROM critics" that are analyzing each new ROM. reading such reviews could be very useful indeed.
in short: if u are a chef and own a kitchen than beware of the "food" critics that are visiting yr restaurant. they can kill yr business in tomorrows front page ROM review or make you a very, very rich and famous chef
ok So to conclude,
we cant use benchmarks since the difference between them would be next to nothing
we cant judge a ROM based on its funtionality since its purely opinionated
we could potential use a script to run a series of real world tests that become useless after a few resets and number of programs installed
That pretty much knocks the idea on the head then?
dazza9075 said:
ok So to conclude,
we cant use benchmarks since the difference between them would be next to nothing
we cant judge a ROM based on its funtionality since its purely opinionated
we could potential use a script to run a series of real world tests that become useless after a few resets and number of programs installed
That pretty much knocks the idea on the head then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sure looks that way.
I would all come down to every user deciding on his own. Would you believe that after trying lots of ROMs I've reverted to a certain Stock ROM because I find that it offers close to perfection for my needs? I could praise the speed and stability and I'd advise you to use it, but you 'd most probably find that it would not suit your needs.
Anyways, I've offered to support a thread that is civilized and based on factual opinions, I will keep my word in doing so, if there's be such thread.
Here's another idea for you all: a good factor to take into consideration when judging a ROM is the number of users using it. It's a good indicator of the ROM's value, since X no. of users are hangin' on to that. Why not post and maintain a simple poll with the most common ROMs (stock and cooked) and see where it gets you?
I don't know what about you guys, but I think that our phone cannot "carry out" the load of the WM 6.5.
I have tried all the great ROM's up to now - indeed great improvement, but still not getting to the latest performance, stability as well as power consumer as the 6.1.
We need to admit that our Polaris does not meet the "Vista" of the mobile requirement - and frankly, it is not expected to be like that.
From my point of view, we need to focus over the latest WM6.1 but to update it always with the latest application available in the market.
No other choice but to wait for WM7, maybe it will be lighter and faster than the 6.5.
Objections!
There is some drop in performance and battery life on Polaris with 6.5 compared to 6.1 but it is barely noticeable in day-to-day use (I use pcarvalho's 6.5 ROM - no complains).
As to the most important part - focusing on 6.1... it is like telling people to get to Windows 98 from XP. WM 6.5 has some framework features under the hood that are just unavailable in 6.1 and I mean not just Titanium or honeycomb menu... 6.1 is a bye-bye past and it is just pointless to waste time on "making it better".
Yet another thing. I think most of people here would agree that they live by the principles of "what if..." and "why not?". I think people here are driven by the process of exploring and testing new stuff itself, rather than by the results it may bring Than the idea of using slower, battery-hungrier, buggier WM 6.5 would not sound stupid.
I've tried both and I can understand what you're saying here, but then again you need to remember a lot of these cooks include lots of programs that a lot of people can do without (ie Remote desktop, MSN Money, etc...). Even if they're not running, the more free program memory you have on the device, the easier it is for it 'breathe'.
I remember updating my first HTC from 5.0 to 6.0 actually made it run faster on its OMAP 200mhz CPU. My second HTC upgrading from 6.0 to 6.1 also felt a bit faster, but not as much as 5.0 to 6.0.
6.5 undoubtedly is slower for me, I was using udk's 6.1 and now pcar's 6.5 (just for the record, they are BOTH VERY TALENTED cooks), but I think it's slower because as you said the device is reaching its limits with what the new OS's are offering.
A nice idea is if some people can maintain on the main forums a standardized benchmark of WM OS's on different devices, based on their naked version to compare as much as possible. I think when I have time I’ll benchmark the different ROM's offered for the Polaris and share with everyone.
On either case, you have to love this community & cooks for always breathing in new life to all our devices, I really encourage people to donate whatever to the site or cooks you are downloading from, it does help encourage them... at least show them some gratitude!
As for my next device, I believe the HD2 is for the first time a MAJOR upgrade for HTC devices with its snapdragon 1Ghz processor and increased RAM...I’ll probably keep the Polaris for at least another 6 months so that I can buy the HD2 at a less-premium price. I just hope the whole camera issue is fixed...they've always had problems with that - there's no point in having a 3MP camera if it has a really slow fps rate and can't get a proper focus on pics!
Well, that was my ramble!
Best regards,
Alan
DesertsStorm said:
Objections!
There is some drop in performance and battery life on Polaris with 6.5 compared to 6.1 but it is barely noticeable in day-to-day use (I use pcarvalho's 6.5 ROM - no complains).
As to the most important part - focusing on 6.1... it is like telling people to get to Windows 98 from XP. WM 6.5 has some framework features under the hood that are just unavailable in 6.1 and I mean not just Titanium or honeycomb menu... 6.1 is a bye-bye past and it is just pointless to waste time on "making it better".
Yet another thing. I think most of people here would agree that they live by the principles of "what if..." and "why not?". I think people here are driven by the process itself, rather than by the results it may bring
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree on this - I was writing my post just as you posted yours. I'm using pcar's and no objections for me, although I believe a lite\naked version could help with the response rate of the device (it's not slow at all, but udk's was just REALLY fast).
I've already asked pcar for a LITE\NAKED version, but poor guy is already giving so much of his time developing the new ROMs as well as the support...i've never seen a cook so active and dedicated...probably the best quality in a cook as you have the confidance that he will work & solve all issues & improvements. But hopefully he will manage to offer a stripped-down version.
It's right! WM6.5 on Polaris is not for a daily usage. I'm so satisfied with 6.1-3lit3VIII.
Well, i do believe wm 6.5 is very good with all new features, but it's just too much for polaris to handle. The best option would be to have all improvements from 6.5 core(HSUPA f.e.) minus all that flashy menus and such.
Also, i cannot stand the way it wants me to use it(mainly fingers), I like my stylus, and i don't want to smudge it with my fingers. Why there isn't a option to let me choose how do i want to control it?
tl;dr make a naked version of 6.5
overrule )
DesertsStorm said:
Objections!
There is some drop in performance and battery life on Polaris with 6.5 compared to 6.1 but it is barely noticeable in day-to-day use (I use pcarvalho's 6.5 ROM - no complains).
As to the most important part - focusing on 6.1... it is like telling people to get to Windows 98 from XP. WM 6.5 has some framework features under the hood that are just unavailable in 6.1 and I mean not just Titanium or honeycomb menu... 6.1 is a bye-bye past and it is just pointless to waste time on "making it better".
Yet another thing. I think most of people here would agree that they live by the principles of "what if..." and "why not?". I think people here are driven by the process of exploring and testing new stuff itself, rather than by the results it may bring Than the idea of using slower, battery-hungrier, buggier WM 6.5 would not sound stupid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with the concept of what you have written, however if we will be case specific, the 6.5 version is to "heavy" for our "not young" Polaris. up to WM6.1 (XP) the system could be optimize for very good performance, but since WM6.5 (Vista), the Mobile is consuming 30-40% power (why?) and the response display can be really feel on daily use.
I don't think that this is compare to win98 - it is relative to XP that still continue to be use today, although the Win7 is out....
Mainly on the daily bases you don’t care which OS you have, as long as it runs fast and stable
100% correct
alanazar said:
I've tried both and I can understand what you're saying here, but then again you need to remember a lot of these cooks include lots of programs that a lot of people can do without (ie Remote desktop, MSN Money, etc...). Even if they're not running, the more free program memory you have on the device, the easier it is for it 'breathe'.
I remember updating my first HTC from 5.0 to 6.0 actually made it run faster on its OMAP 200mhz CPU. My second HTC upgrading from 6.0 to 6.1 also felt a bit faster, but not as much as 5.0 to 6.0.
6.5 undoubtedly is slower for me, I was using udk's 6.1 and now pcar's 6.5 (just for the record, they are BOTH VERY TALENTED cooks), but I think it's slower because as you said the device is reaching its limits with what the new OS's are offering.
A nice idea is if some people can maintain on the main forums a standardized benchmark of WM OS's on different devices, based on their naked version to compare as much as possible. I think when I have time I’ll benchmark the different ROM's offered for the Polaris and share with everyone.
On either case, you have to love this community & cooks for always breathing in new life to all our devices, I really encourage people to donate whatever to the site or cooks you are downloading from, it does help encourage them... at least show them some gratitude!
As for my next device, I believe the HD2 is for the first time a MAJOR upgrade for HTC devices with its snapdragon 1Ghz processor and increased RAM...I’ll probably keep the Polaris for at least another 6 months so that I can buy the HD2 at a less-premium price. I just hope the whole camera issue is fixed...they've always had problems with that - there's no point in having a 3MP camera if it has a really slow fps rate and can't get a proper focus on pics!
Agree with every single word, I have nothing to say about the great and huge cookers and there very good work, I just wanted to "heads up" people to re-think again about the current HW Vs the New OS - sometimes, it doesn't work well not meter what you are going to do...
By the way, this is why there is new 1 GHz CPU
Probably I'll stay with the latest 6.1 version up to the time I'll replace my mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im using PCarvalho latest build 23053 and i have almost no complains...its fast and battery is normal as in 6.1.all i do is run cleanram twice a day.
Sometimes it does freeze and i have to soft reset but not often enough to piss me off,and theres a problem with scrolling big lists in file explorer.
I agree with Yinnon-I also tried 6.5 (Costas early version wich was great),but I saw that the performance in 6.1 is better and got back to M-Amine 6.1-till I buys my new device.
ys222 said:
Mainly on the daily bases you don’t care which OS you have, as long as it runs fast and stable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, I do!!! I so MUCH do!! Remember those Win 98 times when you would loose all your work and were forced to reboot just because any inserted corrupt floppy disk or media player that stopped responding would DEFINITELY result in BSOD??? And it didn't matter for me back then that my PC would run like 50% slower with Win2000 because I knew stability and reliability is sometimes more important than speed.
As to the features of WM6.5 I'll repeat that in day-to-day use (like 3 weeks since I've installed pcarvalho's latest ROM) I don't see any major performance problems on my Polaris whatsoever. Battery life is shorter, that's it. Media or GPS software, M2D v.2.0, Camera, 2G calls, you name it - everything runs good and stable. Not rocket-fast, like on some naked 6.1 ROMs but I just don't care, cause 6.1 is a thing of past for me.
P.S. Wanna see some real problems with performance? Try installing 3D drivers and Touch Flo 3D
ZED_pt said:
Im using PCarvalho latest build 23053 and i have almost no complains...its fast and battery is normal as in 6.1.all i do is run cleanram twice a day.
Sometimes it does freeze and i have to soft reset but not often enough to piss me off,and theres a problem with scrolling big lists in file explorer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not a performance problem? To use "clean ram" twice a day is normal?
Wazowski68 said:
This is not a performance problem? To use "clean ram" twice a day is normal?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm just afraid to think using larger cache in Opera 9.7 in wm6.5...
Wazowski68 said:
This is not a performance problem? To use "clean ram" twice a day is normal?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But of course its wrong to run clean ram twice a day! Oh my god! ... manually! Twice a day!!! I would just write a script to do that for me!
No, seriously, people thats for everyone personally to decide what to use and what ROM to cook (maybe those cooks are bored with 6.1 and had enough of it already - didn't you think about that? ) . But don't forget that if there is a problem, it doesn't mean the whole thing is bad and should be abandoned. Maybe you will find it more interesting to try to solve the problem.
I do not know... the polaris has four major drawbacks from my point of view: the camera should be better, it has no accelerometer, has no TV/music out mode and the technology of the screen is "primitive". For the rest I think the polaris was so well equiped that even now can resist hardware comparison with newer machines. After two years my polaris was stolen and I had to buy a new htc and after comparing I ended with another Polaris.
In my opinion, the big issue is about how many people are there developing software, drivers, roms, etc. People around has been able to install wm6.1, 6.5, android, unix, 3d drivers... it is only a matter of software and unfortunately, most of polaris users in xda have moved to newer devices.
Regarding your question I love naked versions: if you like pcarvalho try 21820 LT, I did not upgrade anymore after that version. You can also try mine Lite rom too, I think it is fast ... but it is just born I am a new to cooking. If you go for 6.1 naked I recommend swtos roms better than any other ones, even the one you mention (at least at the time I had it installed).
I personally would never go back to 6.1 and not even in another life to windows 6.0. I only feel bad about not discovering/daring custom roms before. For me 6.5 battery life is only noticeable when using gps outdoor in the mountain: 4 hours and my phone is dry, which is something you do not want to happen in the mountain, so I have learned to use the GPS only for finding my way when I have problems rather than recording all the way. WM 6.5 more than anything offers me thumb.friendly menus and scrolling. Polaris continues to offer me a good all-in-one choice. If you can live without high demanding UI (lots of things in memory and lots of scrolling and redrawing) I think 6.5 is still a bearable OS for our old Polaris. The difficult point becomes then how to strip the core wm6.5 from the fancy UI around it.
Let's wait for a com5 kitchen of for a naked pcarvalhos rom !!!
cruiserrr said:
I do not know... the polaris has four major drawbacks from my point of view: the camera should be better, it has no accelerometer, has no TV/music out mode and the technology of the screen is "primitive". For the rest I think the polaris was so well equiped that even now can resist hardware comparison with newer machines. After two years my polaris was stolen and I had to buy a new htc and after comparing I ended with another Polaris.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with you...not just with the Polaris but with most of the HTC devices, this is why HD2 is (FINALLY!) a leap in hardware advancements. Ofcourse it still lacks the TV-Out & not sure about the camera but hopefully the camera will be resolved with the LED lighting as it's the light-filter that slows the fps down. I just hope the next-gen devices see the same leaps in technology & power as opposed to small improvements here & there!
cruiserrr said:
In my opinion, the big issue is about how many people are there developing software, drivers, roms, etc. People around has been able to install wm6.1, 6.5, android, unix, 3d drivers... it is only a matter of software and unfortunately, most of polaris users in xda have moved to newer devices.
Regarding your question I love naked versions: if you like pcarvalho try 21820 LT, I did not upgrade anymore after that version. You can also try mine Lite rom too, I think it is fast ... but it is just born I am a new to cooking. If you go for 6.1 naked I recommend swtos roms better than any other ones, even the one you mention (at least at the time I had it installed).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly, my phone is reminding me of the days of the old pentium 1-2 & upgrading from Windows 95 to 98 to 2000, etc ...as long as the hardware can keep up performance-wise with the new software. We have an amazing community of cooks, testers, and users to keep the best coming, and while a lot of the earlier cooks left, thankfully we're still seeing some good talent coming on to the scene. And hopefully we'll be seeing more naked versions as well!
Eventually I think the polaris vs the new software generations will naturally push us to the newer\faster models with more hardware features to make the most out of... and this is before being dumped again by those cooks with more money hehe
cruiserrr said:
I personally would never go back to 6.1 and not even in another life to windows 6.0. I only feel bad about not discovering/daring custom roms before. For me 6.5 battery life is only noticeable when using gps outdoor in the mountain: 4 hours and my phone is dry, which is something you do not want to happen in the mountain, so I have learned to use the GPS only for finding my way when I have problems rather than recording all the way. WM 6.5 more than anything offers me thumb.friendly menus and scrolling. Polaris continues to offer me a good all-in-one choice. If you can live without high demanding UI (lots of things in memory and lots of scrolling and redrawing) I think 6.5 is still a bearable OS for our old Polaris. The difficult point becomes then how to strip the core wm6.5 from the fancy UI around it.
Let's wait for a com5 kitchen of for a naked pcarvalhos rom !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with you 100%. btw, regarding the battery & GPS, if you're running the GPS for 4 hours it's going to drain your battery regardless of the OS you're using. In that case for the mountains, consider getting a solar or AA battery-powered charger (should be just a few $).
Regarding 'com5', i've always wanted to ask what is com2, com3 etc... i searched the forums but it was hard to find the right post with those keywords...can someone please explain? Thanks!
Just my 2 cents. I came to Polaris after 3 unhappy days spent with Touch Pro (will not comment it at all) Only thing I dislike with Polaris is a yellowish color temperature of the screen. And thats it.
Wm6.5 is definitely not heavy for Polaris - unless you understand wm6.5 is all about Titanium and Honeycomb start menu. The problem is that cookers mostly post ROMs overloaded with various things that YOU might never need (and cannot edit). Try one of 6.5 kithens (Gullum's is excellent) and clear everything you don't need from it to see how fast wm6.5 can be. My Polaris has some 62 MB free with S2U2, Today Agenda, HTC Home (yep, usability over looks) and pTravel alarm running on homescreen (all cooked into ROM). It is faster compared to 3lite VI naked ROM I flashed to my brother's Polaris. (3lite VI ROM is mentioned only as example, and is one of the best and fastest 6.1 ROMs IMPO).
From my experience wm6.5 biggest advantage is in tweaked interface compared to 6.1 (for example finger friendly tree-dialogue menus, taskbar buttons on the bottom of the screen, finger friendly contacts and calendar apps etc.), with some other minor glitches of 6.1 resolved. Add to that fact that with recent builds you have visible changes between them and you can choose one according to your preferences - gives you something very promising and inevitable.
Good Evening everyone,
I have recently got my hands on a HTC HD with WinMo 6.1
I was wondering if someone would be able to recommend me the following:
WinMo 6.5.1 Rom with HTC Manila (Or Sense??)
What people think the best Radio is for Battery life vs signal strength? (If it helps I am on UK T-Mobile)
Thanks in advance, greatly appreciated...
Honestly, over a year I've had this phone, and I've tried hundreds of ROMs and for the last month, I'm back to stock rom. They're all great, but you must try them first, you might like them, you might not. There are too many I like for me to mention. Try http://pocketpc-live.com/touch-hd/best-rom-for-htc-touch-hd.html
As stated above, far to many roms to choose from, and everyone has different opinions so couldn't select one for you as my opinion changes daily. As for radio, this can be dependant on your location so again you would need to try a few, though there is only a small amount of radio's to choose from
In 10 days as I have Blackstone, ROM in my signature is 4th.
I guess I'll stick with it for some time since I don't see much advantage in 6.5.x ROMs...
It's my opinion.
Thanks for the replies, Just wanted to know what peoples favs are at present. I am downloading about 4 different roms to try. Currently trying Duttys as I have used his before on my TD but don't think this one is right for me so will see what the other four are like, but its going to be leaving them over night taking a long time to download ......
I've used the stock ROM 6.1 for about a year and was satisfied with it but there was nothing finger friendly there, I had to tweak font size of popup menus and such to have some kind of finger friendly device.
A month ago, I switched to the ROM on my signature and also updated the Radio to the latest release.
From a OS point of view, this ROM (6.5) just flies, this is quite incredible. I've tried several other ROMs (Xnor, PDAViet) all being 6.5.x ROMs but I reverted back. WM 6.1 and 6.5 are fine and quite speedy but 6.5.x (bottom startmenu and close button) are way too experimental yet and thus very slow and heavy to deal with everyday (at least for me). Do not misunderstand me, the above mentioned ROM are well done by their authors, I blame WM 6.5.x for all the slowlyness I faced during tests, I'm sure there was no special fault from the cooks.
I intend to cook this ROM a bit to change some aspects but nothing fundamental. I recommend it, it's very fast and stable.
From a Radio point of view, I must admit that 1.17.x (with latest RILPhone cab too) makes dialing a bit faster (less laggy) and gets signal in very adverse conditions but in the other hand, drains a bit more battery. I was previously using 1.13.x radio from the stock WWE ROM so one of these days, I'll downgrade to 1.14.x radio to see if I still get the increased battery usage.
Hope this helps a bit.
Can anyone tell me a stable custom rom to install?
Currently running 1.66 stock, and it crashes on me at least once a day, requiring me to remove the battery / press reset, although I would like to stick with 1.66 based Roms so that the SMS not sending bug does not ever occur.
Used an Artemis Rom in the past and found it to be quite buggy.
Prefer to stick with something fairly close to a stock rom, perhaps with a few nice tools and things like the extra RAM / 1Ghz CPU active.
Thanks
try "Leo Lite" or "Duttys"
Is there a stock 1.66 rom with speed tweaks available?
custom roms
i don't think there is a best rom. i think there are very good, excellent roms out there waiting for you to try and decide which is your favorite.
if you want to shorten your path you should define what you want first.
if you want a clean, stable and fast rom with no gimmicks and you only care about functionality i recommend you try dutty, laurentius26 or kwbr roms before anything else.
if on the contrary you prefer customization you should try nrgz28 or xannytech.
this, of course, doesn't mean you cannot customize dutty's or xannytech's
are slow, but their philosophy is different and this shows in their product. also, i don't want to imply that these are the only chefs worthy of your attention, i'm only trying to make my point that their have different styles.
i'm currently running the fresh artemis 3.0 because the most important things (for me) are achieved by it:
- i had an excellent relationship with the previous version (2.9b)
- it is based on the latest winmo and manila version (for hd2 !)
- the chef keeps in touch with its followers and continuously improves its product
oh, and let's not forget about the importance of the radio. at least for me it was crucial, as i only found a couple of them working properly in my area.
i hope this helps, good luck!
One of the best Roms are made by Miri and nrgz28
the energy rom gets my vote best rom i tested so far. very quick and stable with lots of added bits
I like the look of the latest Artemis ROM, but unfortunately it does not seem to include either the 1Ghz or 578MB hacks
srw985 said:
I like the look of the latest Artemis ROM, but unfortunately it does not seem to include either the 1Ghz or 578MB hacks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no 1GHz hack. I think you actually mean 1GB anyway, and no, there's not one of them either.
Edit:
I didn't know what I was talking about
There's a 1GHz hack that keeps the CPU running at 1GHz, but this obviously chews your battery time quite a lot.
My last WinMo phone was the XPERIA X1. With the stock ROM, it was an absolute train wreck. I loved to browse XDA and flash custom ROMs for the interesting hybrid SE Panels / TouchFlo3D ROMs. They were so fast, too, compared to the original SE 6.1. The original was just slow and laggy and frequently buggy as hell.
That was just a year ago.
With the HD2 I find myself not nearly as compelled to flash the ROM. I purchased my HD2 T9193 used (got it in mint condition for a screaming good deal) and the past owner had a custom ROM on there. I actually flashed to an official ROM -- the 1.66 WWE. I also flashed the radio, and I was damn impressed after applying g.lewarne's brilliant registry tricks. The device was snappy, fast, lag-free, and just plain ultra-responsive. I actually liked everything about it, from HTC Messaging and the HTC keyboard to the stock Opera browser to the stock task manager and whatnot. I just felt really at home, and I was really pleased with Sense both visually and in respect to its performance.
Then I see people deriding the stock ROMs thread after thread, blaming it for people's random problems with the HD2. They claim that custom ROMs can fix the problems, but I'm running a stock ROM pretty much trouble-free. The problems I read about that are frequently attributed to stock ROMs are problems I myself am far-removed from, including but not limited to crashing, lag, bugs, and general unsatisfactory performance.
So is it really the stock ROMs that cause so many problems? I'm fairly convinced they represent an excellent way to get a known experience that you can customize fairly easily to exactly the configuration that works for you. I'm very happy with my HD2 and once I get the bloody data connection issue fixed for good I can't imagine the stock ROM will ever give me a misstep. It's just stable and fast as hell for me.
Does the stock ROM just "work" for anyone else?
(I apologize if this is considered a ROM discussion thread [not my intention, but I understand if it is considered so or devolves into one])
I'd prefer a cooked stock-like ROM than any heavily-themed one...if that's what you mean.
I have a stock T-mo Rom, and it's work well for me...Coupla of reg tweaks, and apps. Still has some bugs though..
I too went from the X1 to the Leo (as I affectionally call it over the HD2). I am using the stock 1.72 WWE/HK ROM and am quite happy with it. The thing is there are several things about cooked ROMs that you simply cannot get from a stock ROM (not even by adding .cabs), but the cooked ROMs are always heavily themed.
If I remember correctly, there was only like a handful of X1-based cooked ROMs that matched the look of the stock but had the usability of a cooked ROM, that was my preferred choice.
As for the Leo, there isn't that option just yet.. and regardless, some people (like me) usually stay on the stock ROM to let the cooked ROMs mature, then maybe I'll test one or two out..
p.s. Anyone feel sometimes some cooks go insane (in a humorous way) with heavily skinning the interface? Just makes me go oh my god! (completely personal opinion with NO mentioning of names ).
btyeh said:
As for the Leo, there isn't that option just yet.. and regardless, some people (like me) usually stay on the stock ROM to let the cooked ROMs mature, then maybe I'll test one or two out..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't an option yet? Have you look at the ChuckyROM kitchen? Not all Cooked ROMs are skinned to death (though I agree, some people do have bad taste in themes ) and some are done exactly like stock. If that's not enough, you can always cook your own stock ROM with the added stability and performance tweaks.
I am actually quite happy with the stock T-Mo US ROM. I have not done much tweaking of any kind really. Someday I am sure I will but for now I am quite happy with the phone as it is.
I love stock as well. Tried a couple of coocked (artemis and another one I can't remember) but I am not happy with them at all.
Stock is good. 1.66WWE.
I understand the benefits of cooked ROMs with regard to features and incremental bug fixes, but I don't understand why these benefits come at the expense of the stock ROM's reputation -- that is what I am getting at. I find nothing egregiously wrong with the stock ROM for me now that I've tweaked it sufficiently.
The BEST part about the HD2 is that I always have the option. And the options are all attractive.. I guess there's just too many of them for me to pick just one.
i like my stock ROM don't see any point yet to go for a custom one.i updated to the official one from htc website and hot nolag or problems
There's no stock ROM with WM6.5.x available, so using a stock ROM is not an option.
I use stock 1.66 ... no problems for me! (well no major ones anyway... got a minor issue with text size when writing an sms but i think every rom has this)
I have the stock 1.72 and I have to say im very happy with it. I would consider a cooked Rom but it will be for curiosity not because of any probs with the stock one.
RReckless
It depends on people's taste
I love cook roms because I like 6.5.x finger-friendly style, and in cook rom I dont have to install some apps 1-by-1, and dont have to apply tweaks 1-by-1. Another good things is cook rom decorate the start menu quite well.
friend'scatdied said:
I also flashed the radio, and I was damn impressed after applying g.lewarne's brilliant registry tricks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm still using the stock rom, but of course I've applied CoOkie's Home Tab mod, which should be stock imho.
Can you provide a link to g.lewarne's registry mods? I'm using BsB Tweaks which is pretty good but I'm always looking for more info...
thanks.
dipaolnv said:
I'm still using the stock rom, but of course I've applied CoOkie's Home Tab mod, which should be stock imho.
Can you provide a link to g.lewarne's registry mods? I'm using BsB Tweaks which is pretty good but I'm always looking for more info...
thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They're pinned in this forum.
I use the 448MB-compatible tweaks from here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=629388
And the Opera and Cache tweaks from here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=583638
All I need are battery-related registry tweaks for improved battery handling (right now I'm on full HSDPA all the time with no 3G handoff = battery drain) and I'll be golden.
friend'scatdied said:
They're pinned in this forum.
I use the 448MB-compatible tweaks from here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=629388
And the Opera and Cache tweaks from here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=583638
All I need are battery-related registry tweaks for improved battery handling (right now I'm on full HSDPA all the time with no 3G handoff = battery drain) and I'll be golden.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I stayed on the stock ROM for a day. TBH, I bought the HD2 knowing I was going to flash to a Cooked ROM, which I did as soon as I could.
btw, when you're ready for a cooked ROM, you should consider g.lewarne's Series of ROM's which include even more of these tweaks (including the ones for battery life)
skycamefalling said:
There's no stock ROM with WM6.5.x available, so using a stock ROM is not an option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like this statement. Very true.
I use a custom ROM because the OS has a footprint of under 50Mb with a few tweaks, it's fast, and good looking. WM 6.5 stock ROMs are ugly, and I am spoilt with the finger friendliness of 6.5.x.
pongster said:
I stayed on the stock ROM for a day. TBH, I bought the HD2 knowing I was going to flash to a Cooked ROM, which I did as soon as I could.
btw, when you're ready for a cooked ROM, you should consider g.lewarne's Series of ROM's which include even more of these tweaks (including the ones for battery life)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that I've got my data connection issue resolved I'm not sure I'll ever want to reflash to anything. Seriously, every time I hard reset the data connection has issues staying alive for more than 5 minutes. It just perishes dramatically and doesn't return unless I soft reset the device (even the CommMgr wouldn't do it).
I'll figure out the battery tweaks on my own; shouldn't be too hard with an unlocked registry. When I'm ready to flash to a cooked ROM it'll likely be an ultra-lite ROM that's almost totally naked (little to no cooked-in apps, perhaps even Sense natively absent) so I could get it to exactly the way I want from there.
friend'scatdied said:
Now that I've got my data connection issue resolved I'm not sure I'll ever want to reflash to anything. Seriously, every time I hard reset the data connection has issues staying alive for more than 5 minutes. It just perishes dramatically and doesn't return unless I soft reset the device (even the CommMgr wouldn't do it).
I'll figure out the battery tweaks on my own; shouldn't be too hard with an unlocked registry. When I'm ready to flash to a cooked ROM it'll likely be an ultra-lite ROM that's almost totally naked (little to no cooked-in apps, perhaps even Sense natively absent) so I could get it to exactly the way I want from there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"an ultra-lite ROM that's almost totally naked (little to no cooked-in apps, perhaps even Sense natively absent) so I could get it to exactly the way I want from there."
You just described g.lewarne's ROM Series mate
I've flased the O2 1.72 stock rom and I have no problems to report. It even solved the SMS lag. Along with Cookie, BSB, HD2 Tweak and all the fab clocks from everybody, the stock rom suits me fine.