Okie dokie, simple plan to directly compare clean ROMs from the cooks without opinions or bias.
I believe the general idea was to either add a new table to the Wiki or modify the existing tables in the ROMs section, to display standardised benchmark result, ie all from the same version following a set of instructions
those might be, flash ROM, hard reset, install bench mark programs, softrest, softrest run benches with radio on/off
Could be expanded to include basic battery life i dont think having call time / sms count would be helpful as its too unpredictable. but perhaps standby time and or wifi/bluetooth turned on but not connected.
I dont think its about real world tests since we cant have opinions, its a simple OS comparison.
course, for all i know there will be almost nothing between any of them making it redundant so this is why im making this thread, to talk it out and see if its worth while.
and you are starting this "new" thread as a result of my ideea and proposal
wouldn't have been nice to mention?
Benchmarking will give you a very incomplete picture of how a rom is actually going to perform, and therefore will be a virtually worthless use of your time. The real performance of a rom is gonna very significantly based on what software you use, which versions of the software you use, and sometimes even the order in which you install it. There is no consistent reliable benchmarking tool that i have seen as any useful indicator of actual speed of a rom.
The best way to find out about what rom will suit your needs is to read the frist couple posts, then kinda browse through the thread to see which bugs people are posting most regularly. When i was testing the WM6.5 roms, I had no issues with the fact that some people had exchange issues, because I was not having them, but eventually the fact that the notifications weren't working correctly caused me to change to something else. I tried another rom with some TP2 features, and generally liked it, but MyPhone didn't work correctly on that roms for whatever reason.
The point I'm trying to make is that there is no such thing as an unbiased benchmarking, because if we only test them all with no software installed, running clean then you're gonna find that almost all roms score similarly. Even more to the point, I simply have never seen a benchmarking program which had results which were indicative of any real world performance, and as such, I have disregarded the use of them entirely.
If you're happy with the rom you're on, then keep it. If not then read a few threads, see what is out there and then based on a little bit of research try one. If you don't like it, then try another one or even go back to the old one.
noris08 said:
and you are starting this "new" thread as a result of my ideea and proposal
wouldn't have been nice to mention?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, looking after my 3 year old today, pulling my hair out, damn cheeky monkey!but yes totally based on your idea, just wanted to make the link in the old post before it got the chop ill edit the original post in a min
scotchua said:
Benchmarking will give you a very incomplete picture of how a rom is actually going to perform, and therefore will be a virtually worthless use of your time. The real performance of a rom is gonna very significantly based on what software you use, which versions of the software you use, and sometimes even the order in which you install it. There is no consistent reliable benchmarking tool that i have seen as any useful indicator of actual speed of a rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
amen to that!
just making a little bit of reading and got scared by the possibility of threads about "witch ROM is better" beeing aloud
this is going to end badly as i already know that from the trinity forum and from the diamond forum. the forum is going to be cluttered only because a few lazy sobs are not ready to spend a few moments reading the ROM's threads and drawing their own conclusions. it is enough to read the first page, one of every 3 pages and the last one in a ROM thread to understand what is all about.
not only that but when the thread is going to be too long some smart ass is going to open another (he has no time to read a l l those pages)...and than another. please, stop the madness
scotchua said:
The real performance of a rom is gonna very significantly based on what software you use, which versions of the software you use, and sometimes even the order in which you install it. There is no consistent reliable benchmarking tool that i have seen as any useful indicator of actual speed of a rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, to compare ROMs completely requires opinions and subjectional review but since ive not tried this idea on different ROMs i couldnt say for sure what the results would hold.
Once upon a time, before the internet age, there were "Informatics" and "personal computers"
We had a problem: every shop sell HIS PC, assembling HW and assessing "My PC is the faster one". Also many TWEAKS were proposed for DOS and applications (This was before Egyptians I believe...)
The solution?
We built a SUITE, using a scripting tecnique, EMULATING REAL LIFE USER and measuring time, memory usage, battery load, CPU load...
Instead of using commercial benchmarks, because we don't care really about the file system speed, scrolling a large DIR matters, or rotating the screen speed.
We emulated a PRO user and a FUN user, opening a standard office file, starting and closing TT7 or video player speed with standard app (es. TCPMP) , opening an IE page, internet speed, scrolling a LOOOONG contact list, anything you consider as normal life usage.
A script could be used to start every single task and measuring the time.
AND IMHO THIS will be the killer application, comparing different ROM, devices, Diamond is faster than HD? and Kaiser? WVGA how slower is in REAL LIFE?
i belive you miss the point
this is supposed to be a tool helping people with less time or experience to choose the rom that is more appropiate to them
and maybe even help the developers to improve their work
as in the original thread is mentioned it isn't ment to say which rom "rules"
but, as i already said, if people will find this useless, or discussion will degenerate, a mod can close the thread anytime
noris08 said:
i belive you miss the point
this is supposed to be a tool helping people with less time or experience to choose the rom that is more appropiate to them
and maybe even help the developers to improve their work
as in the original thread is mentioned it isn't ment to say which rom "rules"
but, as i already said, if people will find this useless, or discussion will degenerate, a mod can close the thread anytime
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think we missed the point, just trying to share from experience why benchmarking isn't a particularly useful gauge to users trying to pick a rom. If you don't have the time to look around then i'd actually suggest just picking a rom based on what you read in the first couple posts describing it. Also that type of users should just pick a rom that is fuller with more programs installed by default.
Great idea, but will it ever be real?
While it's possible to devise a set of benchmarks and some kind of subjective scoring algorithm, the measurement accuracy will depend on too many factors and the result is likely to be unreliable and inconsistent. Seeing how many various ROMs based on the same OS builds are getting very different ratings in ROM benchmarking threads, real life performance seems to depend on every modification implemented in a ROM. E.g. even if the difference between ROMs is merely in a few files or a few registry keys, you'll probably end up comparing apples to oranges so this won't be very useful.
stepw said:
Great idea, but will it ever be real?
While it's possible to devise a set of benchmarks and some kind of subjective scoring algorithm, the measurement accuracy will depend on too many factors and the result is likely to be unreliable and inconsistent. Seeing how many various ROMs based on the same OS builds are getting very different ratings in ROM benchmarking threads, real life performance seems to depend on every modification implemented in a ROM. E.g. even if the difference between ROMs is merely in a few files or a few registry keys, you'll probably end up comparing apples to oranges so this won't be very useful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must agree to that! At the end of the day, it all comes down to what started this thread: the personal feeling a user gets when using a ROM in his own particular way of using it, which is totally different and uncomparable with other's.
it seems that i can not make you see my point
i will say it for the last time
my original ideea was NOT to compare one rom to another rom.
that will only lead us to square one - which rom is best
AND THIS IS NOT THE POINT!
whatever!
i'll give up
cheers!
tnyynt said:
I must agree to that! At the end of the day, it all comes down to what started this thread: the personal feeling a user gets when using a ROM in his own particular way of using it, which is totally different and uncomparable with other's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Benchmarking suite....
1) Free memory, storage mem at first start
2) Boot up time (measured with a simple program started at the end of the boot)
3) Search a string (time)
4) Open a complex word document (time)
5) open a complex excel document (time)
5) Active sync connected, open a simple web page, time, open a a Complex web page (success, time) (IE)
6) Open a LOCAL complex web page, scrolling, (time)
7) Restoring 4000 contacts (pimbackup, success, time)
8) Restoring 2000 SMS (pimbackup, success, time)
9) TT7 startup and close (or other BIG software, time)
10) TCPMP standard video player performance (direct draw, accelerated)
3 times each test, % of battery resulting startin with a full charge (these are only examples, just to explain better the point)
noris08 said:
it seems that i can not make you see my point
i will say it for the last time
my original ideea was NOT to compare one rom to another rom.
that will only lead us to square one - which rom is best
AND THIS IS NOT THE POINT!
whatever!
i'll give up
cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree to noris08!
this thread is not what was the original intention
i doen't want to know if some rom is about 10ms faster than other rom as i have readed in other threads where one published his benchmark score 2635. and a user posted the question if his device fails because he comes "only" to score 2450 e.g.
no, for example i testet 5 ROMs from 4 chefs.
i would be able to tell the reason for choosing the actual ROM on my HD. There where many facts hardly subjective opinions for choosen that! I think if a user would describe his decision respectfully to the hard work of the cockers this will help all of us.
if the guy is wrong other users can reply with their opposite experiences he knows it is worth to look for the reason on his device(configuration).
We all know speed, good feeling depends on many factors. so only a respectful discussion will help users and chefs.
even when user are telling a specific ROM is slower than other specific rom, other users can agree or disagree. if one is telling it is slow and many others reply the opposite this is a useful information for the user and the chef. chef get the response his rom seems to work fine. otherwise the chief get the information his rom leaks in speed and there are further tuning possibilities because other rom look to be faster.
I would find a thread e.g.
"Your experences with different ROMS" or
"what rom do you use and which property or feature do you like extra"
maybe useful.
If someone is posting: "ROM X ist the best" useres are old enough to know that this is not a meaningful post.
I would like to read postings like:
I am using ROM XY - has great looking german keyboard with äöüÄÖÜß - very stable (softreset max. 1 in 2 Weeks ) Battery: without Backligth and no running program and no dataconnection only 60mA i experienced a "normal" value, in suspendmode over night max. 1% Power loss although G-Alarm and phone active ) overall good responses.
are you guys so scared of whos rom will be the fastest??
end of the line the fastest rom will be the one better built. (the one more tweaked)
its like talking to ppl :
"wow its stupid comparing a dell pc to a alienware pc with the same hardware"
why??
its like if someone is a fanboy of ati and never admits a nvidia car will perform better & vice-versa
and of course as like the nvidia & ati cards, not only hardware will make a difference.
do you want to know how it really should look a ROM review?! did you ever imagine how complex a ROM is to build a ROM? do you know what is the difference between a good and a bad ROM? here u have an example from one expert i'll trust with an opinion!
the-equinoxe said:
Cooking a ROM isn't just trowing a few packages, and some registry fixes in a kitchen and press build..
It's knowing why a ROM behaves in a certain way, and fixing unwanted behaviour.
It's knowing what happens when you cook a ROM, what the scripts in your kitchen are supposed to do, and what the are actually doing(!!).
It's knowing this and so much more..
I have seen ROMs released lately where the XIP wasn't rebased, where the rgu's were contradicting the hv files and worse: where RGU from package a was contradicting the RGU from package B. (and even worse: A contradicting B but both contradicting HV..).
Why not simply import the RGU's into the HV files first? and check the rgu files, or for fraks sake, merge them!
Some had added certificates, but the cook didn't knew that the base he was using was already patched to ignore all certificates.
Why on earth clutter the ROM with unnecessary certificates? Really WHY?
I have seen cooks adding XIP of a higher build but using the OS of a lower build, just to get a high build number. (some just plain hexedit the build number :s )
This simply makes me puke, why on earth would you add an UNMATCHING XIP in another OS? You would think that that unmatched part was the cause of some unexpected bugs, wouldn't you..
Or massive amounts of files that are moved from root (=\\windows) to some kind of subdirectory, it seems that the chefs who are doing this are unaware that they aren't MOVING but COPYING the files (jups, that was bad design from microsoft)
Why concentrate on the build number?
A higher build number doesn't make a better ROM.
Focus on making a ROM BETTER, fix those contradicting registry entries, there are plenty of tools out there to ease your work nowadays, it can be done in hours instead of weeks.
Rebase those files that are supposed to be XIP, don't leave it unaltered and most certainly don't make it a PE-file (like dll or EXE), you will have unpredictable occurrences of drivers unloading from memory when doing this, and other crazy bugs that are hard to pinpoint.
And if another chef removes those dsm files and replaces all RGU's with one (or just simply stay with the HV) ,it's mostly not to piss off other chefs so it can't be shared, but to make the ROM better and faster.
Etc etc etc etc.. (I could go on and on.. really ! The curse of the kitchens I called it)
This is not a Flame to a certain Chef, or even directed at this particular Forum, I have many devices, and I have flashed them a lot, sometimes I take the time to analyze a ROM, and I have been amazed what junk has been produced by some..
The main idea of a cooked ROM is to have a better device with fewer bugs, not a fancy picture, nor to have the highest number..
So in some cases the cure is worse than the problem..
I am not going to single out a bad cook, nor a good cook, there are plenty of both..
Some will see this as a personal attack, personally: I don't care, if you claim to be a Top-chef, but don't know the basics of cooking, call yourself what you want, but don't expect me (or others) to be fooled.
I am just saying: instead of focusing on a high build number, or a (bug ridden) beta, focus on what you are actually doing.
Take a stable ROM, and make that one better, most AKUs are intended to support newer devices, and newer hardware, a higher AKU doesn't mean the ROM is better (it could have new bugs to deal with).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the whole post is here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3387292&postcount=76
KukurikU said:
did you ever imagine how complex a ROM is to build a ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry, but this does not subject this thread and nobody doubts about ROM cooking is not a simple job! thanks to all chefs!!!!
KukurikU said:
do you know what is the difference between a good and a bad ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from the user's viewpoint i think its clear and software is made for users. user do not mandatory want to know whats behind the scenery in deepth. user want a device with software with basic properties and naturally many cool features - lets say:
a stable ROM with all features he needs for daily use, cool features for fun and suitable speed. if the userinterface have a appealing design also it's nearly perfect!
and here we are back again:
"what features or properties do you like most"
would help users to find out, what is the best for him!
this is naturaly only my opinion
P.S: Sorry for my suggestion to open a thread, i just found a thread with such a Subject!!!!!
autdev said:
sorry, but this does not subject this thread and nobody doubts about ROM cooking is not a simple job! thanks to all chefs!!!!
from the user's viewpoint i think its clear and software is made for users. user do not mandatory want to know whats behind the scenery in deepth. user want a device with software with basic properties and naturally many cool features - lets say:
a stable ROM with all features he needs for daily use, cool features for fun and suitable speed. if the userinterface have a appealing design also it's nearly perfect!
and here we are back again:
"what features or properties do you like most"
would help users to find out, what is the best for him!
this is naturaly only my opinion
P.S: Sorry for my suggestion to open a thread, i just found a thread with such a Subject!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cool features and appealing design in a rotten ROM means high battey consumption, frequent freezes and soft resets and so on...
i think i wasn't clear enough in my previous post. what i meant (in a nut shell) was that because of it's complexity deciding that a ROM is good, less good or bad is a professional's job. only an expert can give you a trustworthy opinion.
the moment somebody starts a "what is the best ROM for me" everybody will jump in and push the ROM he is using. after a while the thread will be cluttered with hundreds of honest but unprofessional opinions and you'll have on one page 8-9 different opinions. does this make yr decision of choosing a ROM easier?? i don't think so! so, back to square one
in my wet dreams i see a thread filled with posts of "ROM critics" that are analyzing each new ROM. reading such reviews could be very useful indeed.
in short: if u are a chef and own a kitchen than beware of the "food" critics that are visiting yr restaurant. they can kill yr business in tomorrows front page ROM review or make you a very, very rich and famous chef
ok So to conclude,
we cant use benchmarks since the difference between them would be next to nothing
we cant judge a ROM based on its funtionality since its purely opinionated
we could potential use a script to run a series of real world tests that become useless after a few resets and number of programs installed
That pretty much knocks the idea on the head then?
dazza9075 said:
ok So to conclude,
we cant use benchmarks since the difference between them would be next to nothing
we cant judge a ROM based on its funtionality since its purely opinionated
we could potential use a script to run a series of real world tests that become useless after a few resets and number of programs installed
That pretty much knocks the idea on the head then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sure looks that way.
I would all come down to every user deciding on his own. Would you believe that after trying lots of ROMs I've reverted to a certain Stock ROM because I find that it offers close to perfection for my needs? I could praise the speed and stability and I'd advise you to use it, but you 'd most probably find that it would not suit your needs.
Anyways, I've offered to support a thread that is civilized and based on factual opinions, I will keep my word in doing so, if there's be such thread.
Here's another idea for you all: a good factor to take into consideration when judging a ROM is the number of users using it. It's a good indicator of the ROM's value, since X no. of users are hangin' on to that. Why not post and maintain a simple poll with the most common ROMs (stock and cooked) and see where it gets you?
Related
I don't know what about you guys, but I think that our phone cannot "carry out" the load of the WM 6.5.
I have tried all the great ROM's up to now - indeed great improvement, but still not getting to the latest performance, stability as well as power consumer as the 6.1.
We need to admit that our Polaris does not meet the "Vista" of the mobile requirement - and frankly, it is not expected to be like that.
From my point of view, we need to focus over the latest WM6.1 but to update it always with the latest application available in the market.
No other choice but to wait for WM7, maybe it will be lighter and faster than the 6.5.
Objections!
There is some drop in performance and battery life on Polaris with 6.5 compared to 6.1 but it is barely noticeable in day-to-day use (I use pcarvalho's 6.5 ROM - no complains).
As to the most important part - focusing on 6.1... it is like telling people to get to Windows 98 from XP. WM 6.5 has some framework features under the hood that are just unavailable in 6.1 and I mean not just Titanium or honeycomb menu... 6.1 is a bye-bye past and it is just pointless to waste time on "making it better".
Yet another thing. I think most of people here would agree that they live by the principles of "what if..." and "why not?". I think people here are driven by the process of exploring and testing new stuff itself, rather than by the results it may bring Than the idea of using slower, battery-hungrier, buggier WM 6.5 would not sound stupid.
I've tried both and I can understand what you're saying here, but then again you need to remember a lot of these cooks include lots of programs that a lot of people can do without (ie Remote desktop, MSN Money, etc...). Even if they're not running, the more free program memory you have on the device, the easier it is for it 'breathe'.
I remember updating my first HTC from 5.0 to 6.0 actually made it run faster on its OMAP 200mhz CPU. My second HTC upgrading from 6.0 to 6.1 also felt a bit faster, but not as much as 5.0 to 6.0.
6.5 undoubtedly is slower for me, I was using udk's 6.1 and now pcar's 6.5 (just for the record, they are BOTH VERY TALENTED cooks), but I think it's slower because as you said the device is reaching its limits with what the new OS's are offering.
A nice idea is if some people can maintain on the main forums a standardized benchmark of WM OS's on different devices, based on their naked version to compare as much as possible. I think when I have time I’ll benchmark the different ROM's offered for the Polaris and share with everyone.
On either case, you have to love this community & cooks for always breathing in new life to all our devices, I really encourage people to donate whatever to the site or cooks you are downloading from, it does help encourage them... at least show them some gratitude!
As for my next device, I believe the HD2 is for the first time a MAJOR upgrade for HTC devices with its snapdragon 1Ghz processor and increased RAM...I’ll probably keep the Polaris for at least another 6 months so that I can buy the HD2 at a less-premium price. I just hope the whole camera issue is fixed...they've always had problems with that - there's no point in having a 3MP camera if it has a really slow fps rate and can't get a proper focus on pics!
Well, that was my ramble!
Best regards,
Alan
DesertsStorm said:
Objections!
There is some drop in performance and battery life on Polaris with 6.5 compared to 6.1 but it is barely noticeable in day-to-day use (I use pcarvalho's 6.5 ROM - no complains).
As to the most important part - focusing on 6.1... it is like telling people to get to Windows 98 from XP. WM 6.5 has some framework features under the hood that are just unavailable in 6.1 and I mean not just Titanium or honeycomb menu... 6.1 is a bye-bye past and it is just pointless to waste time on "making it better".
Yet another thing. I think most of people here would agree that they live by the principles of "what if..." and "why not?". I think people here are driven by the process itself, rather than by the results it may bring
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree on this - I was writing my post just as you posted yours. I'm using pcar's and no objections for me, although I believe a lite\naked version could help with the response rate of the device (it's not slow at all, but udk's was just REALLY fast).
I've already asked pcar for a LITE\NAKED version, but poor guy is already giving so much of his time developing the new ROMs as well as the support...i've never seen a cook so active and dedicated...probably the best quality in a cook as you have the confidance that he will work & solve all issues & improvements. But hopefully he will manage to offer a stripped-down version.
It's right! WM6.5 on Polaris is not for a daily usage. I'm so satisfied with 6.1-3lit3VIII.
Well, i do believe wm 6.5 is very good with all new features, but it's just too much for polaris to handle. The best option would be to have all improvements from 6.5 core(HSUPA f.e.) minus all that flashy menus and such.
Also, i cannot stand the way it wants me to use it(mainly fingers), I like my stylus, and i don't want to smudge it with my fingers. Why there isn't a option to let me choose how do i want to control it?
tl;dr make a naked version of 6.5
overrule )
DesertsStorm said:
Objections!
There is some drop in performance and battery life on Polaris with 6.5 compared to 6.1 but it is barely noticeable in day-to-day use (I use pcarvalho's 6.5 ROM - no complains).
As to the most important part - focusing on 6.1... it is like telling people to get to Windows 98 from XP. WM 6.5 has some framework features under the hood that are just unavailable in 6.1 and I mean not just Titanium or honeycomb menu... 6.1 is a bye-bye past and it is just pointless to waste time on "making it better".
Yet another thing. I think most of people here would agree that they live by the principles of "what if..." and "why not?". I think people here are driven by the process of exploring and testing new stuff itself, rather than by the results it may bring Than the idea of using slower, battery-hungrier, buggier WM 6.5 would not sound stupid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with the concept of what you have written, however if we will be case specific, the 6.5 version is to "heavy" for our "not young" Polaris. up to WM6.1 (XP) the system could be optimize for very good performance, but since WM6.5 (Vista), the Mobile is consuming 30-40% power (why?) and the response display can be really feel on daily use.
I don't think that this is compare to win98 - it is relative to XP that still continue to be use today, although the Win7 is out....
Mainly on the daily bases you don’t care which OS you have, as long as it runs fast and stable
100% correct
alanazar said:
I've tried both and I can understand what you're saying here, but then again you need to remember a lot of these cooks include lots of programs that a lot of people can do without (ie Remote desktop, MSN Money, etc...). Even if they're not running, the more free program memory you have on the device, the easier it is for it 'breathe'.
I remember updating my first HTC from 5.0 to 6.0 actually made it run faster on its OMAP 200mhz CPU. My second HTC upgrading from 6.0 to 6.1 also felt a bit faster, but not as much as 5.0 to 6.0.
6.5 undoubtedly is slower for me, I was using udk's 6.1 and now pcar's 6.5 (just for the record, they are BOTH VERY TALENTED cooks), but I think it's slower because as you said the device is reaching its limits with what the new OS's are offering.
A nice idea is if some people can maintain on the main forums a standardized benchmark of WM OS's on different devices, based on their naked version to compare as much as possible. I think when I have time I’ll benchmark the different ROM's offered for the Polaris and share with everyone.
On either case, you have to love this community & cooks for always breathing in new life to all our devices, I really encourage people to donate whatever to the site or cooks you are downloading from, it does help encourage them... at least show them some gratitude!
As for my next device, I believe the HD2 is for the first time a MAJOR upgrade for HTC devices with its snapdragon 1Ghz processor and increased RAM...I’ll probably keep the Polaris for at least another 6 months so that I can buy the HD2 at a less-premium price. I just hope the whole camera issue is fixed...they've always had problems with that - there's no point in having a 3MP camera if it has a really slow fps rate and can't get a proper focus on pics!
Agree with every single word, I have nothing to say about the great and huge cookers and there very good work, I just wanted to "heads up" people to re-think again about the current HW Vs the New OS - sometimes, it doesn't work well not meter what you are going to do...
By the way, this is why there is new 1 GHz CPU
Probably I'll stay with the latest 6.1 version up to the time I'll replace my mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im using PCarvalho latest build 23053 and i have almost no complains...its fast and battery is normal as in 6.1.all i do is run cleanram twice a day.
Sometimes it does freeze and i have to soft reset but not often enough to piss me off,and theres a problem with scrolling big lists in file explorer.
I agree with Yinnon-I also tried 6.5 (Costas early version wich was great),but I saw that the performance in 6.1 is better and got back to M-Amine 6.1-till I buys my new device.
ys222 said:
Mainly on the daily bases you don’t care which OS you have, as long as it runs fast and stable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, I do!!! I so MUCH do!! Remember those Win 98 times when you would loose all your work and were forced to reboot just because any inserted corrupt floppy disk or media player that stopped responding would DEFINITELY result in BSOD??? And it didn't matter for me back then that my PC would run like 50% slower with Win2000 because I knew stability and reliability is sometimes more important than speed.
As to the features of WM6.5 I'll repeat that in day-to-day use (like 3 weeks since I've installed pcarvalho's latest ROM) I don't see any major performance problems on my Polaris whatsoever. Battery life is shorter, that's it. Media or GPS software, M2D v.2.0, Camera, 2G calls, you name it - everything runs good and stable. Not rocket-fast, like on some naked 6.1 ROMs but I just don't care, cause 6.1 is a thing of past for me.
P.S. Wanna see some real problems with performance? Try installing 3D drivers and Touch Flo 3D
ZED_pt said:
Im using PCarvalho latest build 23053 and i have almost no complains...its fast and battery is normal as in 6.1.all i do is run cleanram twice a day.
Sometimes it does freeze and i have to soft reset but not often enough to piss me off,and theres a problem with scrolling big lists in file explorer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not a performance problem? To use "clean ram" twice a day is normal?
Wazowski68 said:
This is not a performance problem? To use "clean ram" twice a day is normal?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm just afraid to think using larger cache in Opera 9.7 in wm6.5...
Wazowski68 said:
This is not a performance problem? To use "clean ram" twice a day is normal?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But of course its wrong to run clean ram twice a day! Oh my god! ... manually! Twice a day!!! I would just write a script to do that for me!
No, seriously, people thats for everyone personally to decide what to use and what ROM to cook (maybe those cooks are bored with 6.1 and had enough of it already - didn't you think about that? ) . But don't forget that if there is a problem, it doesn't mean the whole thing is bad and should be abandoned. Maybe you will find it more interesting to try to solve the problem.
I do not know... the polaris has four major drawbacks from my point of view: the camera should be better, it has no accelerometer, has no TV/music out mode and the technology of the screen is "primitive". For the rest I think the polaris was so well equiped that even now can resist hardware comparison with newer machines. After two years my polaris was stolen and I had to buy a new htc and after comparing I ended with another Polaris.
In my opinion, the big issue is about how many people are there developing software, drivers, roms, etc. People around has been able to install wm6.1, 6.5, android, unix, 3d drivers... it is only a matter of software and unfortunately, most of polaris users in xda have moved to newer devices.
Regarding your question I love naked versions: if you like pcarvalho try 21820 LT, I did not upgrade anymore after that version. You can also try mine Lite rom too, I think it is fast ... but it is just born I am a new to cooking. If you go for 6.1 naked I recommend swtos roms better than any other ones, even the one you mention (at least at the time I had it installed).
I personally would never go back to 6.1 and not even in another life to windows 6.0. I only feel bad about not discovering/daring custom roms before. For me 6.5 battery life is only noticeable when using gps outdoor in the mountain: 4 hours and my phone is dry, which is something you do not want to happen in the mountain, so I have learned to use the GPS only for finding my way when I have problems rather than recording all the way. WM 6.5 more than anything offers me thumb.friendly menus and scrolling. Polaris continues to offer me a good all-in-one choice. If you can live without high demanding UI (lots of things in memory and lots of scrolling and redrawing) I think 6.5 is still a bearable OS for our old Polaris. The difficult point becomes then how to strip the core wm6.5 from the fancy UI around it.
Let's wait for a com5 kitchen of for a naked pcarvalhos rom !!!
cruiserrr said:
I do not know... the polaris has four major drawbacks from my point of view: the camera should be better, it has no accelerometer, has no TV/music out mode and the technology of the screen is "primitive". For the rest I think the polaris was so well equiped that even now can resist hardware comparison with newer machines. After two years my polaris was stolen and I had to buy a new htc and after comparing I ended with another Polaris.
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Click to collapse
I totally agree with you...not just with the Polaris but with most of the HTC devices, this is why HD2 is (FINALLY!) a leap in hardware advancements. Ofcourse it still lacks the TV-Out & not sure about the camera but hopefully the camera will be resolved with the LED lighting as it's the light-filter that slows the fps down. I just hope the next-gen devices see the same leaps in technology & power as opposed to small improvements here & there!
cruiserrr said:
In my opinion, the big issue is about how many people are there developing software, drivers, roms, etc. People around has been able to install wm6.1, 6.5, android, unix, 3d drivers... it is only a matter of software and unfortunately, most of polaris users in xda have moved to newer devices.
Regarding your question I love naked versions: if you like pcarvalho try 21820 LT, I did not upgrade anymore after that version. You can also try mine Lite rom too, I think it is fast ... but it is just born I am a new to cooking. If you go for 6.1 naked I recommend swtos roms better than any other ones, even the one you mention (at least at the time I had it installed).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly, my phone is reminding me of the days of the old pentium 1-2 & upgrading from Windows 95 to 98 to 2000, etc ...as long as the hardware can keep up performance-wise with the new software. We have an amazing community of cooks, testers, and users to keep the best coming, and while a lot of the earlier cooks left, thankfully we're still seeing some good talent coming on to the scene. And hopefully we'll be seeing more naked versions as well!
Eventually I think the polaris vs the new software generations will naturally push us to the newer\faster models with more hardware features to make the most out of... and this is before being dumped again by those cooks with more money hehe
cruiserrr said:
I personally would never go back to 6.1 and not even in another life to windows 6.0. I only feel bad about not discovering/daring custom roms before. For me 6.5 battery life is only noticeable when using gps outdoor in the mountain: 4 hours and my phone is dry, which is something you do not want to happen in the mountain, so I have learned to use the GPS only for finding my way when I have problems rather than recording all the way. WM 6.5 more than anything offers me thumb.friendly menus and scrolling. Polaris continues to offer me a good all-in-one choice. If you can live without high demanding UI (lots of things in memory and lots of scrolling and redrawing) I think 6.5 is still a bearable OS for our old Polaris. The difficult point becomes then how to strip the core wm6.5 from the fancy UI around it.
Let's wait for a com5 kitchen of for a naked pcarvalhos rom !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with you 100%. btw, regarding the battery & GPS, if you're running the GPS for 4 hours it's going to drain your battery regardless of the OS you're using. In that case for the mountains, consider getting a solar or AA battery-powered charger (should be just a few $).
Regarding 'com5', i've always wanted to ask what is com2, com3 etc... i searched the forums but it was hard to find the right post with those keywords...can someone please explain? Thanks!
Just my 2 cents. I came to Polaris after 3 unhappy days spent with Touch Pro (will not comment it at all) Only thing I dislike with Polaris is a yellowish color temperature of the screen. And thats it.
Wm6.5 is definitely not heavy for Polaris - unless you understand wm6.5 is all about Titanium and Honeycomb start menu. The problem is that cookers mostly post ROMs overloaded with various things that YOU might never need (and cannot edit). Try one of 6.5 kithens (Gullum's is excellent) and clear everything you don't need from it to see how fast wm6.5 can be. My Polaris has some 62 MB free with S2U2, Today Agenda, HTC Home (yep, usability over looks) and pTravel alarm running on homescreen (all cooked into ROM). It is faster compared to 3lite VI naked ROM I flashed to my brother's Polaris. (3lite VI ROM is mentioned only as example, and is one of the best and fastest 6.1 ROMs IMPO).
From my experience wm6.5 biggest advantage is in tweaked interface compared to 6.1 (for example finger friendly tree-dialogue menus, taskbar buttons on the bottom of the screen, finger friendly contacts and calendar apps etc.), with some other minor glitches of 6.1 resolved. Add to that fact that with recent builds you have visible changes between them and you can choose one according to your preferences - gives you something very promising and inevitable.
From user's point of view, there is no much difference among the various cooked ROMs. Some of them are more stable then the other, but there is a minor difference, if at all, from functionality point of view. They basically perform the same and have similar appearance. Since "muscles" the machine is not lacking, there is very little value in speeding up the machine. I would like to see variety of user interfaces, customizations and new functionalities, that will facilitate better utilization of the investment = better fit to my specific needs and taste.
Thank you for your patience.
I also find the constant "this and that rom is 'fastest'" talk kind of pointless in regard to the Leo. Even stock 1.48 is more than fast enough for my tastes. This isn't the Kaiser, where speedups actually meant something.
So i would also like to see more focus on bugless and stable releases instead of "hacking" the system in terms of getting more points in a benchmark.
i am looking at the changelog of each rom and i found minor changes
does this deserve a new rom to be flashed???
really we need the taste of the chefs to be obvious in there roms.
I agree with all of you.
firaX said:
So i would also like to see more focus on bugless and stable releases instead of "hacking" the system in terms of getting more points in a benchmark.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
As a matter of facts, I flashed some wm 6.5.3 roms, wich were unstable, now I'm on a stock-like-but-on-a-newer-sys-plus-some-updated-packages and I think I will stay there until the new official HTC Rom
I used to flash roms every week with my older HTC, having all the new "leo" features on my phone, but damn, THIS ALREADY IS LEO
Imho, without a new HTC update (or a manila update or a WM7 Leak) we will not see something really new, because the manila build is always the same, and cookers can't do nothing about it (so, non-sense roms are excluded)
After getting HSPL, I tried flashing to 2 popular custom ROMs for LEO only to encounter freeze and manual soft reset which automatically changed to a hard reset... within a day or 2 usage
All my stuff is gone and I had to wait till i return home to re-sync to get back my data..
I don't see others encountering my problem thus not sure why it's happening on my set.. so for now.. it's back to official 1.48.707 till a official HTC ROM update.
[POLL] Which gsm hero rom is CURRENTLY running on your phone?
Choose one and we'll see what's going on in the world of our little gsm heros.
I don't see a poll like this for gsm hero - certainly nothing with current roms.
Good idea for a poll! I too would like to know what is happening with our little Hero(s).
thanks
I decided to limit to only one answer, what's running right now, since many of us nandroid and flash regularly we could end up with the 5 or 6 most obvious answers all being voted for by everyone. to me that's just silly.
at least this is scientific: if not absolutely indicative of everyone's favorite rom, at least it's indicative of the current choice.
Could be used for a trend chart if in the future we do the same poll again and compare results.
a.t.m. running:
- 2.3 gingerbread - cronos
Working good, happy Gingerbread user
DjoeN said:
a.t.m. running:
- 2.3 gingerbread - cronos
Working good, happy Gingerbread user
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dito, and voted as such
note: I kept results anonymous (hopefully) so if you wish to keep your status private you can still vote.
happy to see people posting openly though of course
wow hahaha reload first page of gsm hero development forum and every rom thread's most recent post is my link to this poll.
I wanted to be fair so tried to post the link for every rom that is getting current thread discussion.
but no posts there after my posts, even after 15 minutes or so - I suppose everyone's here voting.
pretty much the results I expected aside from the mass of gb users!
surprising about rcmix and tegro - I know of some users of those roms currently.
wow - you VR12 guys - you could consider backing up (using nandroid) and trying out RCmix or tegro. they're both much newer versions of sense roms that are quicker in some ways and also offer newer nicer features (newer widgets and other good things). but good that you're happy with vr12 still
Cheers
dkelley said:
wow - you VR12 guys - you could consider backing up (using nandroid) and trying out RCmix or tegro. they're both much newer versions of sense roms that are quicker in some ways and also offer newer nicer features (newer widgets and other good things). but good that you're happy with vr12 still
Cheers
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Click to collapse
Hey dkelley, long time no speak (again)
Interesting you mentioned VR12... I have been looking into security of the Android platform, and I would strongly recommend people move off Sense-based ROMs, and onto a Froyo custom ROM for now...
I am not at liberty to give details of the exploit (and I don't have full details), given most non-custom ROM devices will sit for the rest of their lives, vulnerable to this, but I understand that the 2.1 ROMs have some pretty serious security holes in the browser system, which appear to be better in the last set of sources I pulled from CM on the froyo tree (for FroydVillain 1.7.x)
So while it's interesting to see people still using VR12, I would suggest everyone on a Sense-based ROM moves to a "proper" 2.2 vanilla ROM. I don't think a Sense UI 2.2 ROM would be safe, so I'd discourage those too. It appears you need something CM based, and pretty recent.
As such, I would urge anyone using older CM-based ROMs (say from before November or October) to upgrade if they are concerned about security while surfing the internet. HTC don't seem to be interested in fixing the vulnerability, but I checked FV 1.7 and it is not vulnerable to this one attack.
If you support the idea of HTC being pressed into updating their phones (remember that EVERY user of the Hero, who isn't on a custom ROM, is vulnerable to any security exploits, which will not be fixed unless they do an update), then check out http://bit.ly/fDGHPV, where I am trying to get some support together before I contact HTC and mobile carriers.
PS Don, I seem to have derailed this a bit... Figured it was perhaps best to post this in here, since there's no point in making a new thread that we want to get many people to do, and you already did the "donkey work" so to speak. If this derails the thread, I'll sweep it out into another thread if you want
pulser_g2 said:
If you support the idea of HTC being pressed into updating their phones (remember that EVERY user of the Hero, who isn't on a custom ROM, is vulnerable to any security exploits, which will not be fixed unless they do an update), then check out http://bit.ly/fDGHPV, where I am trying to get some support together before I contact HTC and mobile carriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi....
Do you have any CVE references ?
http://cve.mitre.org/
This is just a blog with without any CVE-refs as I can see.....
http://thomascannon.net/blog/2010/11/android-data-stealing-vulnerability/
Hey Pulser
surprised you didn't send me a warning for spamming the same post linking to this thread in like a dozen gsm hero threads within 5 minutes yesterday LoL
Interesting, and a little scary, what you're saying.
But being the scientific (and slightly cynical) type I tend not to believe anything without either proof or at least further information.
I'll read up on it some - but can you summarize the possible type of damage? such as gathering of private data by parties who know about the exploit? or damage to the phone via intentional cause (again by parties in the know)? or what
dkelley said:
Hey Pulser
surprised you didn't send me a warning for spamming the same post linking to this thread in like a dozen gsm hero threads within 5 minutes yesterday LoL
Interesting, and a little scary, what you're saying.
But being the scientific (and slightly cynical) type I tend not to believe anything without either proof or at least further information.
I'll read up on it some - but can you summarize the possible type of damage? such as gathering of private data by parties who know about the exploit? or damage to the phone via intentional cause (again by parties in the know)? or what
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I went back to Cronosproject 1.7.2 from gb beta 6. Even the massive headway they made thus far has been awesome with Fee and Ele together I can't see how it can be made as good as 1.7.2. Its way behind on performance and hogs memory with the minimum system and regular apps installed. The battery seems awesome but not much in there to use it. I'll wait till full release or stick with this rom. I can have a desire on wife's upgrade but I fancy something more now.desire is very quick.
V1.7.2 Cronos® Speed Machine
spikey68 said:
I went back to Cronosproject 1.7.2 from gb beta 6. Even the massive headway they made thus far has been awesome with Fee and Ele together I can't see how it can be made as good as 1.7.2. Its way behind on performance and hogs memory with the minimum system and regular apps installed. The battery seems awesome but not much in there to use it. I'll wait till full release or stick with this rom. I can have a desire on wife's upgrade but I fancy something more now.desire is very quick.
V1.7.2 Cronos® Speed Machine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed but give it time, and disagreed about "hogs memory": using the available memory like crazy is done to speed up performance, it's not hogging anything in a bad way. when something else requests memory that memory is freed up.
gb's memory manager is years ahead of it's predecessors
but yea, it will take a while.
Note - it's at 0.0.7 now and has everything working except camera which they're working on. performance is always improving, all sensors work now, and it's pretty amazing.
I just need a more stable build for now dude. Grafix and app issues made me revert. I'm sure with input on Cronus now they will make it much better. They need to get used to each others methods of building. I love it on there and not many will give it the dedication that Feeyo puts in. Ele is not dissimilar so expect great things. The futures bright
V1.7.2 Cronos® Speed Machine
spikey68 said:
I just need a more stable build for now dude. Grafix and app issues made me revert. I'm sure with input on Cronus now they will make it much better. They need to get used to each others methods of building. I love it on there and not many will give it the dedication that Feeyo puts in. Ele is not dissimilar so expect great things. The futures bright
V1.7.2 Cronos® Speed Machine
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Click to collapse
agreed. was just correcting you about the memory hogging thing since it's a good thing not a bad thing.
edit: well, not agreed about stability LoL. sorry I keep doing that . I'm running it and have for days and it's super stable. gui speed has improved a ton now too. you wouldn't know you were in such a new rom if you tried it on my phone cuz I disabled the animatinos etc very carefully in various settings places and use LP and so on.
BUT for me the fastest rom is still cronos eclair lite - it's gui, with LP, is noticeably faster than with other roms. If only it wasn't 2.1 based (with it's EXCEPTIONALLY slow and crappy applications manager and so on).
dkelley said:
agreed. was just correcting you about the memory hogging thing since it's a good thing not a bad thing.
edit: well, not agreed about stability LoL. sorry I keep doing that . I'm running it and have for days and it's super stable. gui speed has improved a ton now too. you wouldn't know you were in such a new rom if you tried it on my phone cuz I disabled the animatinos etc very carefully in various settings places and use LP and so on.
BUT for me the fastest rom is still cronos eclair lite - it's gui, with LP, is noticeably faster than with other roms. If only it wasn't 2.1 based (with it's EXCEPTIONALLY slow and crappy applications manager and so on).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just had fc's with too many things. Neo, quad, then regular apps and no market. With minimal apps it was slowing right down. I figured that no matter how good the memory allocation manager if you don't have the physical memory the manager can't work right. I'll wait. Do you have basics like market working?
I never had any kind of lag with 1.7.2. The GUI is awesome. It benches close to the desire.
V1.7.2 Cronos® Speed Machine
spikey68 said:
I just had fc's with too many things. Neo, quad, then regular apps and no market. With minimal apps it was slowing right down. I figured that no matter how good the memory allocation manager if you don't have the physical memory the manager can't work right. I'll wait. Do you have basics like market working?
V1.7.2 Cronos® Speed Machine
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Click to collapse
everything's workign perfectly, no FCs, market's been fine for several versions now for most of us. everything except camera apps and certain specific graphics apps work great now.
neocore's broken, doesn't matter of course, same with quad, it's not relevant to anything. They're apps designed for certain operating system versions and hardware and the hero running gb doesn't fit the bill. those are are irrelevant apps that can be dismissed.
I play lots of games and they're working just great. all productivity and utility apps are great.
audio and multimedia stuff are fine too. not really sure where you were getting FCs but it sounds like it needed a new wipe and reflash possibly.
but then there's that strange thing were not every rom works on everyone's hero - I'll never know why, but I swear it's true
apps2sd and so on are working now (with a patch from elelinux). there's something that's slowing down the gui and animations still, and I accidentally had my gb phone running super fast in those areas when my app2sd flash borked. So I know a solution is possible to that last little bit of performance...
dkelley said:
everything's workign perfectly, no FCs, market's been fine for several versions now for most of us. everything except camera apps and certain specific graphics apps work great now.
neocore's broken, doesn't matter of course, same with quad, it's not relevant to anything. They're apps designed for certain operating system versions and hardware and the hero running gb doesn't fit the bill. those are are irrelevant apps that can be dismissed.
I play lots of games and they're working just great. all productivity and utility apps are great.
audio and multimedia stuff are fine too. not really sure where you were getting FCs but it sounds like it needed a new wipe and reflash possibly.
but then there's that strange thing were not every rom works on everyone's hero - I'll never know why, but I swear it's true
apps2sd and so on are working now (with a patch from elelinux). there's something that's slowing down the gui and animations still, and I accidentally had my gb phone running super fast in those areas when my app2sd flash borked. So I know a solution is possible to that last little bit of performance...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Weird dude. I haven't had time to go through the thread but I will now and go again. I could swear I full factory reset and wiped everything.
I had a long week with kids but thanks, I wondered why it was so bad.... but it wasn't! And no mention of my probs!
Taxi for spike...
V1.7.2 Cronos® Speed Machine
spikey68 said:
Weird dude. I haven't had time to go through the thread but I will now and go again. I could swear I full factory reset and wiped everything.
I had a long week with kids but thanks, I wondered why it was so bad.... but it wasn't! And no mention of my probs!
Taxi for spike...
V1.7.2 Cronos® Speed Machine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha - well hopefully it'll work better for you now than it did before. you will find slow gui screen animations at times though so it's worth disabling all of that and using launcherpro (if you can find launcherpro anywhere considering fede's rather frustrating emergency issue at the moment).
My launcher pro plus backup will work wont it?
V1.7.2 Cronos® Speed Machine
I have yet to find any decent threads anywhere regarding the best settings for the Nexus 7 so I thought I would start and hopefully learn some info from other users and provide a good resource thread for others.
I have not overclocked and haven't added any cutom tweaks to governors and schedulers yet so my experience so far has been with the default kernel options. Since hardware is different and kernel/rom experiences will vary I will just start with Scheduler, Governor, and other general tweaks.
Scheduler:
i have so far had the best experiences with SIO, and NOOP
Governor:
So far the best balance between performance and battery life has been with Pegasusq and Interactive
ADJ and LMK:
I don't use any scripts like Supercharger I like to do everything manually, here are the values I have found that offer the smoothest user experience:
ADJ:
0,1,3,6,9,15
1536,9216,25600,51200,76800,102400 - (Wife's for general use and multi-tasking)
ADJ:
0,1,4,7,10,15
5120,15360,61440,81920,102400,122880 - (Mine for gaming and high performance)
I have boat-loads of tweaks that I have used for roms I have built for other devices, but hesitant to use them with the Nexus 7 due to the fact that I don't want to cause any negative effects. I have added generic linux tweaks (ext4, database defrag, kernel tweaks) but the Adreno and Powervr tweaks obviously are null and void for this. As I discover more I will definitely share.
I have had issues getting custom LMK values loaded on some kernels, but franco and anything based off Motley has worked just fine. I know there is a bug with LMK on some source versions and assume it is related to that, but if anyone has found a workaround i would be very interested as I would love to give the other kernels a shot.
I am intrigued about lulzactive but the parameters need to be tweaked as the default settings provide horrible battery life. I am interested to know what other people have been using and any info you want to provide is welcome and greatly appreciated!
The problem with such threads and people sharing all this info is everyone uses something different, meaning what tweaks and settings you use for your given device are dependent also on the ROM and the kernel you're using so...
You can see how that basically ends up being a thread full of info where people just end up saying "oh yeah, well my <whatever device> can get <however many hours> of battery life..." and so on.
It's a good idea I suppose but it only ends up providing benefits to those people that a) end up using the same hardware and b) end up using the same ROMs and c) end up using the same kernels too. And yes I know this is the Nexus 7 so that covers the device aspect right there...
Suffice to say this: none of the tweaks or info you provided in your post are relevant to me at all with my Nexus 7 as the kernel I use (M-Kernel a37) doesn't support the kinds of governors that are considered the more esoteric ones (it has interactive, ondemand, touchdemand, and performance) nor the same class of schedulers (it has noop, deadline, row, and bfq). Would be nice but, I look at it this way:
Both the Paranoid Android developers (any and all of them) as well as Metallice who's responsible for M-Kernel, have done a metric frak-ton of work before I even got a Nexus 7 with testing, builds, more testing, more builds, testing, more testing, even more testing, and they continue to develop and test even to this moment and my Nexus 7 runs fabulously, I honestly can't ask for more considering the performance (even with the default of 2 cores enabled with my choice of kernel) and battery life (which is damned amazing as well).
But who knows, maybe something useful will show up... I've just gotten to a point where "It just works" and that's good enough for me. Tweaking is just boring nowadays, but that's just my opinion.
<all this is coming from a guy that's been tweaking computers and consumer electronics of all kinds, shapes, and sizes for several decades now, and yes I can honestly say "I've pretty much seen it all...">
br0adband said:
You can see how that basically ends up being a thread full of info where people just end up saying "oh yeah, well my <whatever device> can get <however many hours> of battery life..." and so on.
It's a good idea I suppose but it only ends up providing benefits to those people that a) end up using the same hardware and b) end up using the same ROMs and c) end up using the same kernels too. And yes I know this is the Nexus 7 so that covers the device aspect right there...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Given that this is the Nexus 7 forum, <whatever device> = <Nexus 7>
richardorvince said:
Given that this is the Nexus 7 forum, <whatever device> = <Nexus 7>
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Click to collapse
I covered that in the last sentence you just quoted.
I know I only have 9 posts here and that makes me a "noob" in the eyes of most people here, but I am by no means a noob in general, just a noob when it comes to tegra. I have boosted performance and battery life (up to 50%) on other devices and don't see any reason why it can't be done on this one.
I already touched on the fact that opinions are just that, experiences may vary, but when it comes to governors there is a discernable difference when it comes to battery life and performance and that is what I am inquiring about. There are also tunables which can change a governor from completely horrible to exceptional. THis is why I am inquiring. Don't bother yourself with this thread if it is of no use to you.
If you'd take the time - if you haven't already - to read with comprehension the threads for kernels like franco.Kernel and M-Kernel you'd see a massive if not overwhelming amount of information that you're actually looking for that's already been done. Those two kernels - and probably most of the other popular ones - have extensive levels of research and testing already done on them and in their most currently available forms they are the epitome of kernel development on the Nexus 7, and I stand by that statement even in spite of me not being a developer myself. I have read thousands upon thousands of posts and done my own little amounts of experimentation just to prove to myself that yes, those two kernels (and probably others) provide exactly what their respective developers have worked so hard to provide:
Exceptional performance overall coupled with exceptional battery life as well. Yes you can do your own tuning for your own particular needs and wants and even your own requirements as needed which is pretty much what you're apparently hoping to discover from other people and their own experiences.
I'm not saying this thread is a bad idea, I'm saying it's been done before: hundreds if not thousands of times in the very threads that exist for each of the respective kernels (and ROMs by association). The kernel threads have extreme amounts of info on basic tunables, governors, schedulers, pretty much every last thing you or anyone else could ever do to squeeze out the best they offer and the the developers implement that stuff into the defaults of their kernels based on the results of testing and reports from users implementing them.
The info is out there, you just have to go find it - and yes I note that you said you'd never found any decent threads about the Nexus 7 which is precisely what prompted my first reply: the info is already out there in the kernel and ROM threads.
There can't be a "best of" type thread like this because there's just so many different variations of kernels, ROMs, etc even if the device is the same amongst all the people.
Also, one aspect that most people don't realize: there are different revisions of the Nexus 7 hardware and they tend to perform differently. I, for example, have an original (and I mean first production run) Nexus 7 8GB model that has totally different performance characteristics than the later revisions of the same 8GB model, and then the 16GB and 32GB models are even different on another level because they use faster Flash-RAM onboard than the 8GB models ever did.
So again, it's a great idea and I figured if nobody else ever created one I'd do it myself, but in the long run every device is going to perform differently. Even if you had two Nexus 7s that came off the production line one right after the other and you tested them with the exact same ROMs, kernels, and tweaks, you'd get different results from each one. I'm not being facetious when I say that, I'm being totally absolutely dead serious.
Also, there is no really good overall benchmark for Android, probably never will be. You have to use different ones geared towards specific purposes to get any useful data, like AndroBench which tests the storage specifically and Vellamo which can test the HTML/surfing performance specifically. Antutu is probably the best actually useful overall system benchmark but unfortunately more people use Quadrant which is a shame because that one is so useless the results can vary rather dramatically even if you run it several times in a row.
Believe me, I've been tweaking for decades, so there's nothing I can say or do that'll stop anyone from doing it - I know the bug of "Upgraditis" quite well and have suffered from it forever, right alongside the companion condition known as being a Tweakaholic...
br0adband said:
If you'd take the time - if you haven't already - to read with comprehension the threads for kernels like franco.Kernel and M-Kernel you'd see a massive if not overwhelming amount of information that you're actually looking for that's already been done. Those two kernels - and probably most of the other popular ones - have extensive levels of research and testing already done on them and in their most currently available forms they are the epitome of kernel development on the Nexus 7, and I stand by that statement even in spite of me not being a developer myself. I have read thousands upon thousands of posts and done my own little amounts of experimentation just to prove to myself that yes, those two kernels (and probably others) provide exactly what their respective developers have worked so hard to provide:
Exceptional performance overall coupled with exceptional battery life as well. Yes you can do your own tuning for your own particular needs and wants and even your own requirements as needed which is pretty much what you're apparently hoping to discover from other people and their own experiences.
I'm not saying this thread is a bad idea, I'm saying it's been done before: hundreds if not thousands of times in the very threads that exist for each of the respective kernels (and ROMs by association). The kernel threads have extreme amounts of info on basic tunables, governors, schedulers, pretty much every last thing you or anyone else could ever do to squeeze out the best they offer and the the developers implement that stuff into the defaults of their kernels based on the results of testing and reports from users implementing them.
The info is out there, you just have to go find it - and yes I note that you said you'd never found any decent threads about the Nexus 7 which is precisely what prompted my first reply: the info is already out there in the kernel and ROM threads.
There can't be a "best of" type thread like this because there's just so many different variations of kernels, ROMs, etc even if the device is the same amongst all the people.
Also, one aspect that most people don't realize: there are different revisions of the Nexus 7 hardware and they tend to perform differently. I, for example, have an original (and I mean first production run) Nexus 7 8GB model that has totally different performance characteristics than the later revisions of the same 8GB model, and then the 16GB and 32GB models are even different on another level because they use faster Flash-RAM onboard than the 8GB models ever did.
So again, it's a great idea and I figured if nobody else ever created one I'd do it myself, but in the long run every device is going to perform differently. Even if you had two Nexus 7s that came off the production line one right after the other and you tested them with the exact same ROMs, kernels, and tweaks, you'd get different results from each one. I'm not being facetious when I say that, I'm being totally absolutely dead serious.
Also, there is no really good overall benchmark for Android, probably never will be. You have to use different ones geared towards specific purposes to get any useful data, like AndroBench which tests the storage specifically and Vellamo which can test the HTML/surfing performance specifically. Antutu is probably the best actually useful overall system benchmark but unfortunately more people use Quadrant which is a shame because that one is so useless the results can vary rather dramatically even if you run it several times in a row.
Believe me, I've been tweaking for decades, so there's nothing I can say or do that'll stop anyone from doing it - I know the bug of "Upgraditis" quite well and have suffered from it forever, right alongside the companion condition known as being a Tweakaholic...
Click to expand...
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Blah Blah Blah
I mean seriously dude, that is a lot of words for saying absolutely nothing.
I am a developer on other devices, and I will be releasing roms for this one as well. I was looking for personal experience, not an opinion from someone who has absolutely nothing to add. I have been a member of this site for over six months, and I am just now hitting the "10 post requirement" to post in the developer forums. Why?? Because I am not out to make a name for myself on this website, I already have a reputation - a good one - on others, places where post counts and titles mean nothing unless you have actually developed something.
I work and have a family so I don't have tons of time to test out schedulers and governors so I was looking for some info from others and gave some of my own in return. I am not a tweakaholic, but you will thank me when I release an optimized ROM with extended battery life and a fluid and smooth user experience.
This site is great in a lot of ways, but I have noticed there are a lot of egotistical holier than thou people on the forums who like nothing better than to put other people down and be (for lack of a better word) ***holes. If your hobby is to crap on other peoples threads then it is time for a life change, get out and find a girl-friend, or friends in general.
You're a ROM developer and a member at the biggest most popular site on the entire Internet for ROM development for mobile devices and it took you six months to get to 10 posts? Guess I'm missing something but whatever, you go right on going on, son, I'll keep an eye out for your progress.
As for thanking you for ROMs, no, that won't happen since you're too far behind the curve now and anything you come up with will basically be copied work that others before you have long since created and improved upon (even if you don't realize it). If you're that busy with 'real life' and whatever - which always seems to be the reason, go figure - then perhaps you don't have the time to focus on such tasks in the first place. Priorities, man, priorities.
Ad hominem sure seems to be the norm for people online these days, wonder why.
Fact - 95% of the battery tweaks are placebo at best.
The remaining come from kernel developers who have a firm grasp on undervolting and can actually get a little longer battery life out of your device.
The best blanket solution to increasing your battery.. Turn off Location Access and Google Now.
Yes my job and family are my priority. As they should be. Also my point was I am not trying to boosty my post count to show how "cool" I am, I could care less. As it should be.
And no battery tweaks are not placebo, unless you are using placebo battery tweaks of course. There are Build.prop, init.d and sysctl.conf tweaks that can boost battery life 20-30% easy, and it can be proven. No placebo. If you choose to believe that then I have no problem with it.
I thank both of you for littering this thread with crap. I will not bother with this one I have much better things going on other forums. I truly wish I knew as much as you guys, It must suck to know everything because life must be truly boring for you.
I find rom flashing sufficiently annoying that I don't do it often. In fact I've only done it once (over a year ago) with Paranoid Android. But the advances are starting to look significant and I'm contemplating my next rom. I looked casually at the bug list for CM10.2 and it seems that most bugs are minor glitches or things with easy work arounds, and that this base is stable enough to use as a daily driver. If anyone would like to confirm or deny that conjecture I would like to hear your opinion on that.
Assuming one is willing to take the CM10.2 leap, the ROM listing thread shows 7 based on CM10.2:
BeanStalk, crDroid, DARKNESS, Illusion, Krueger, rom-xperia, SGT7, and SuperNexus 3.0
I'm not naive enough to ask which one is best, but to those of you who have compared these seriously, could you offer some comparisons based on some of the important characteristics. Perhaps
- best stability
- best battery life
- best UI smoothness
- largest feature set
- smallest footprint (i.e. reduced bloat)
- best built-in apps
- best built-in kernel
- most popular
- best support
Or if you don't think these are the most important characteristics, feel free to suggest more relevant ones.
I have read large portions of the thread discussing each of these roms, but I still find it difficult to decide which one I would like most..
I'm sure many readers of this forum will be as interested in your responses as I am since at this point there is little of this kind of information out there in a reasonably accessible way.
Thanks in advance for any contributions you can make to this thread.
~Paul
Unfortunately this type of thread isn't allowed... Even though it looks like you put a lot of thought into it...
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
No. Non. Njet. Sorry - No best ROM threads
Thread Closed