Related
Okie dokie, simple plan to directly compare clean ROMs from the cooks without opinions or bias.
I believe the general idea was to either add a new table to the Wiki or modify the existing tables in the ROMs section, to display standardised benchmark result, ie all from the same version following a set of instructions
those might be, flash ROM, hard reset, install bench mark programs, softrest, softrest run benches with radio on/off
Could be expanded to include basic battery life i dont think having call time / sms count would be helpful as its too unpredictable. but perhaps standby time and or wifi/bluetooth turned on but not connected.
I dont think its about real world tests since we cant have opinions, its a simple OS comparison.
course, for all i know there will be almost nothing between any of them making it redundant so this is why im making this thread, to talk it out and see if its worth while.
and you are starting this "new" thread as a result of my ideea and proposal
wouldn't have been nice to mention?
Benchmarking will give you a very incomplete picture of how a rom is actually going to perform, and therefore will be a virtually worthless use of your time. The real performance of a rom is gonna very significantly based on what software you use, which versions of the software you use, and sometimes even the order in which you install it. There is no consistent reliable benchmarking tool that i have seen as any useful indicator of actual speed of a rom.
The best way to find out about what rom will suit your needs is to read the frist couple posts, then kinda browse through the thread to see which bugs people are posting most regularly. When i was testing the WM6.5 roms, I had no issues with the fact that some people had exchange issues, because I was not having them, but eventually the fact that the notifications weren't working correctly caused me to change to something else. I tried another rom with some TP2 features, and generally liked it, but MyPhone didn't work correctly on that roms for whatever reason.
The point I'm trying to make is that there is no such thing as an unbiased benchmarking, because if we only test them all with no software installed, running clean then you're gonna find that almost all roms score similarly. Even more to the point, I simply have never seen a benchmarking program which had results which were indicative of any real world performance, and as such, I have disregarded the use of them entirely.
If you're happy with the rom you're on, then keep it. If not then read a few threads, see what is out there and then based on a little bit of research try one. If you don't like it, then try another one or even go back to the old one.
noris08 said:
and you are starting this "new" thread as a result of my ideea and proposal
wouldn't have been nice to mention?
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Click to collapse
Sorry, looking after my 3 year old today, pulling my hair out, damn cheeky monkey!but yes totally based on your idea, just wanted to make the link in the old post before it got the chop ill edit the original post in a min
scotchua said:
Benchmarking will give you a very incomplete picture of how a rom is actually going to perform, and therefore will be a virtually worthless use of your time. The real performance of a rom is gonna very significantly based on what software you use, which versions of the software you use, and sometimes even the order in which you install it. There is no consistent reliable benchmarking tool that i have seen as any useful indicator of actual speed of a rom.
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Click to collapse
amen to that!
just making a little bit of reading and got scared by the possibility of threads about "witch ROM is better" beeing aloud
this is going to end badly as i already know that from the trinity forum and from the diamond forum. the forum is going to be cluttered only because a few lazy sobs are not ready to spend a few moments reading the ROM's threads and drawing their own conclusions. it is enough to read the first page, one of every 3 pages and the last one in a ROM thread to understand what is all about.
not only that but when the thread is going to be too long some smart ass is going to open another (he has no time to read a l l those pages)...and than another. please, stop the madness
scotchua said:
The real performance of a rom is gonna very significantly based on what software you use, which versions of the software you use, and sometimes even the order in which you install it. There is no consistent reliable benchmarking tool that i have seen as any useful indicator of actual speed of a rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, to compare ROMs completely requires opinions and subjectional review but since ive not tried this idea on different ROMs i couldnt say for sure what the results would hold.
Once upon a time, before the internet age, there were "Informatics" and "personal computers"
We had a problem: every shop sell HIS PC, assembling HW and assessing "My PC is the faster one". Also many TWEAKS were proposed for DOS and applications (This was before Egyptians I believe...)
The solution?
We built a SUITE, using a scripting tecnique, EMULATING REAL LIFE USER and measuring time, memory usage, battery load, CPU load...
Instead of using commercial benchmarks, because we don't care really about the file system speed, scrolling a large DIR matters, or rotating the screen speed.
We emulated a PRO user and a FUN user, opening a standard office file, starting and closing TT7 or video player speed with standard app (es. TCPMP) , opening an IE page, internet speed, scrolling a LOOOONG contact list, anything you consider as normal life usage.
A script could be used to start every single task and measuring the time.
AND IMHO THIS will be the killer application, comparing different ROM, devices, Diamond is faster than HD? and Kaiser? WVGA how slower is in REAL LIFE?
i belive you miss the point
this is supposed to be a tool helping people with less time or experience to choose the rom that is more appropiate to them
and maybe even help the developers to improve their work
as in the original thread is mentioned it isn't ment to say which rom "rules"
but, as i already said, if people will find this useless, or discussion will degenerate, a mod can close the thread anytime
noris08 said:
i belive you miss the point
this is supposed to be a tool helping people with less time or experience to choose the rom that is more appropiate to them
and maybe even help the developers to improve their work
as in the original thread is mentioned it isn't ment to say which rom "rules"
but, as i already said, if people will find this useless, or discussion will degenerate, a mod can close the thread anytime
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Click to collapse
I don't think we missed the point, just trying to share from experience why benchmarking isn't a particularly useful gauge to users trying to pick a rom. If you don't have the time to look around then i'd actually suggest just picking a rom based on what you read in the first couple posts describing it. Also that type of users should just pick a rom that is fuller with more programs installed by default.
Great idea, but will it ever be real?
While it's possible to devise a set of benchmarks and some kind of subjective scoring algorithm, the measurement accuracy will depend on too many factors and the result is likely to be unreliable and inconsistent. Seeing how many various ROMs based on the same OS builds are getting very different ratings in ROM benchmarking threads, real life performance seems to depend on every modification implemented in a ROM. E.g. even if the difference between ROMs is merely in a few files or a few registry keys, you'll probably end up comparing apples to oranges so this won't be very useful.
stepw said:
Great idea, but will it ever be real?
While it's possible to devise a set of benchmarks and some kind of subjective scoring algorithm, the measurement accuracy will depend on too many factors and the result is likely to be unreliable and inconsistent. Seeing how many various ROMs based on the same OS builds are getting very different ratings in ROM benchmarking threads, real life performance seems to depend on every modification implemented in a ROM. E.g. even if the difference between ROMs is merely in a few files or a few registry keys, you'll probably end up comparing apples to oranges so this won't be very useful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must agree to that! At the end of the day, it all comes down to what started this thread: the personal feeling a user gets when using a ROM in his own particular way of using it, which is totally different and uncomparable with other's.
it seems that i can not make you see my point
i will say it for the last time
my original ideea was NOT to compare one rom to another rom.
that will only lead us to square one - which rom is best
AND THIS IS NOT THE POINT!
whatever!
i'll give up
cheers!
tnyynt said:
I must agree to that! At the end of the day, it all comes down to what started this thread: the personal feeling a user gets when using a ROM in his own particular way of using it, which is totally different and uncomparable with other's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Benchmarking suite....
1) Free memory, storage mem at first start
2) Boot up time (measured with a simple program started at the end of the boot)
3) Search a string (time)
4) Open a complex word document (time)
5) open a complex excel document (time)
5) Active sync connected, open a simple web page, time, open a a Complex web page (success, time) (IE)
6) Open a LOCAL complex web page, scrolling, (time)
7) Restoring 4000 contacts (pimbackup, success, time)
8) Restoring 2000 SMS (pimbackup, success, time)
9) TT7 startup and close (or other BIG software, time)
10) TCPMP standard video player performance (direct draw, accelerated)
3 times each test, % of battery resulting startin with a full charge (these are only examples, just to explain better the point)
noris08 said:
it seems that i can not make you see my point
i will say it for the last time
my original ideea was NOT to compare one rom to another rom.
that will only lead us to square one - which rom is best
AND THIS IS NOT THE POINT!
whatever!
i'll give up
cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree to noris08!
this thread is not what was the original intention
i doen't want to know if some rom is about 10ms faster than other rom as i have readed in other threads where one published his benchmark score 2635. and a user posted the question if his device fails because he comes "only" to score 2450 e.g.
no, for example i testet 5 ROMs from 4 chefs.
i would be able to tell the reason for choosing the actual ROM on my HD. There where many facts hardly subjective opinions for choosen that! I think if a user would describe his decision respectfully to the hard work of the cockers this will help all of us.
if the guy is wrong other users can reply with their opposite experiences he knows it is worth to look for the reason on his device(configuration).
We all know speed, good feeling depends on many factors. so only a respectful discussion will help users and chefs.
even when user are telling a specific ROM is slower than other specific rom, other users can agree or disagree. if one is telling it is slow and many others reply the opposite this is a useful information for the user and the chef. chef get the response his rom seems to work fine. otherwise the chief get the information his rom leaks in speed and there are further tuning possibilities because other rom look to be faster.
I would find a thread e.g.
"Your experences with different ROMS" or
"what rom do you use and which property or feature do you like extra"
maybe useful.
If someone is posting: "ROM X ist the best" useres are old enough to know that this is not a meaningful post.
I would like to read postings like:
I am using ROM XY - has great looking german keyboard with äöüÄÖÜß - very stable (softreset max. 1 in 2 Weeks ) Battery: without Backligth and no running program and no dataconnection only 60mA i experienced a "normal" value, in suspendmode over night max. 1% Power loss although G-Alarm and phone active ) overall good responses.
are you guys so scared of whos rom will be the fastest??
end of the line the fastest rom will be the one better built. (the one more tweaked)
its like talking to ppl :
"wow its stupid comparing a dell pc to a alienware pc with the same hardware"
why??
its like if someone is a fanboy of ati and never admits a nvidia car will perform better & vice-versa
and of course as like the nvidia & ati cards, not only hardware will make a difference.
do you want to know how it really should look a ROM review?! did you ever imagine how complex a ROM is to build a ROM? do you know what is the difference between a good and a bad ROM? here u have an example from one expert i'll trust with an opinion!
the-equinoxe said:
Cooking a ROM isn't just trowing a few packages, and some registry fixes in a kitchen and press build..
It's knowing why a ROM behaves in a certain way, and fixing unwanted behaviour.
It's knowing what happens when you cook a ROM, what the scripts in your kitchen are supposed to do, and what the are actually doing(!!).
It's knowing this and so much more..
I have seen ROMs released lately where the XIP wasn't rebased, where the rgu's were contradicting the hv files and worse: where RGU from package a was contradicting the RGU from package B. (and even worse: A contradicting B but both contradicting HV..).
Why not simply import the RGU's into the HV files first? and check the rgu files, or for fraks sake, merge them!
Some had added certificates, but the cook didn't knew that the base he was using was already patched to ignore all certificates.
Why on earth clutter the ROM with unnecessary certificates? Really WHY?
I have seen cooks adding XIP of a higher build but using the OS of a lower build, just to get a high build number. (some just plain hexedit the build number :s )
This simply makes me puke, why on earth would you add an UNMATCHING XIP in another OS? You would think that that unmatched part was the cause of some unexpected bugs, wouldn't you..
Or massive amounts of files that are moved from root (=\\windows) to some kind of subdirectory, it seems that the chefs who are doing this are unaware that they aren't MOVING but COPYING the files (jups, that was bad design from microsoft)
Why concentrate on the build number?
A higher build number doesn't make a better ROM.
Focus on making a ROM BETTER, fix those contradicting registry entries, there are plenty of tools out there to ease your work nowadays, it can be done in hours instead of weeks.
Rebase those files that are supposed to be XIP, don't leave it unaltered and most certainly don't make it a PE-file (like dll or EXE), you will have unpredictable occurrences of drivers unloading from memory when doing this, and other crazy bugs that are hard to pinpoint.
And if another chef removes those dsm files and replaces all RGU's with one (or just simply stay with the HV) ,it's mostly not to piss off other chefs so it can't be shared, but to make the ROM better and faster.
Etc etc etc etc.. (I could go on and on.. really ! The curse of the kitchens I called it)
This is not a Flame to a certain Chef, or even directed at this particular Forum, I have many devices, and I have flashed them a lot, sometimes I take the time to analyze a ROM, and I have been amazed what junk has been produced by some..
The main idea of a cooked ROM is to have a better device with fewer bugs, not a fancy picture, nor to have the highest number..
So in some cases the cure is worse than the problem..
I am not going to single out a bad cook, nor a good cook, there are plenty of both..
Some will see this as a personal attack, personally: I don't care, if you claim to be a Top-chef, but don't know the basics of cooking, call yourself what you want, but don't expect me (or others) to be fooled.
I am just saying: instead of focusing on a high build number, or a (bug ridden) beta, focus on what you are actually doing.
Take a stable ROM, and make that one better, most AKUs are intended to support newer devices, and newer hardware, a higher AKU doesn't mean the ROM is better (it could have new bugs to deal with).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the whole post is here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3387292&postcount=76
KukurikU said:
did you ever imagine how complex a ROM is to build a ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry, but this does not subject this thread and nobody doubts about ROM cooking is not a simple job! thanks to all chefs!!!!
KukurikU said:
do you know what is the difference between a good and a bad ROM?
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Click to collapse
from the user's viewpoint i think its clear and software is made for users. user do not mandatory want to know whats behind the scenery in deepth. user want a device with software with basic properties and naturally many cool features - lets say:
a stable ROM with all features he needs for daily use, cool features for fun and suitable speed. if the userinterface have a appealing design also it's nearly perfect!
and here we are back again:
"what features or properties do you like most"
would help users to find out, what is the best for him!
this is naturaly only my opinion
P.S: Sorry for my suggestion to open a thread, i just found a thread with such a Subject!!!!!
autdev said:
sorry, but this does not subject this thread and nobody doubts about ROM cooking is not a simple job! thanks to all chefs!!!!
from the user's viewpoint i think its clear and software is made for users. user do not mandatory want to know whats behind the scenery in deepth. user want a device with software with basic properties and naturally many cool features - lets say:
a stable ROM with all features he needs for daily use, cool features for fun and suitable speed. if the userinterface have a appealing design also it's nearly perfect!
and here we are back again:
"what features or properties do you like most"
would help users to find out, what is the best for him!
this is naturaly only my opinion
P.S: Sorry for my suggestion to open a thread, i just found a thread with such a Subject!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cool features and appealing design in a rotten ROM means high battey consumption, frequent freezes and soft resets and so on...
i think i wasn't clear enough in my previous post. what i meant (in a nut shell) was that because of it's complexity deciding that a ROM is good, less good or bad is a professional's job. only an expert can give you a trustworthy opinion.
the moment somebody starts a "what is the best ROM for me" everybody will jump in and push the ROM he is using. after a while the thread will be cluttered with hundreds of honest but unprofessional opinions and you'll have on one page 8-9 different opinions. does this make yr decision of choosing a ROM easier?? i don't think so! so, back to square one
in my wet dreams i see a thread filled with posts of "ROM critics" that are analyzing each new ROM. reading such reviews could be very useful indeed.
in short: if u are a chef and own a kitchen than beware of the "food" critics that are visiting yr restaurant. they can kill yr business in tomorrows front page ROM review or make you a very, very rich and famous chef
ok So to conclude,
we cant use benchmarks since the difference between them would be next to nothing
we cant judge a ROM based on its funtionality since its purely opinionated
we could potential use a script to run a series of real world tests that become useless after a few resets and number of programs installed
That pretty much knocks the idea on the head then?
dazza9075 said:
ok So to conclude,
we cant use benchmarks since the difference between them would be next to nothing
we cant judge a ROM based on its funtionality since its purely opinionated
we could potential use a script to run a series of real world tests that become useless after a few resets and number of programs installed
That pretty much knocks the idea on the head then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sure looks that way.
I would all come down to every user deciding on his own. Would you believe that after trying lots of ROMs I've reverted to a certain Stock ROM because I find that it offers close to perfection for my needs? I could praise the speed and stability and I'd advise you to use it, but you 'd most probably find that it would not suit your needs.
Anyways, I've offered to support a thread that is civilized and based on factual opinions, I will keep my word in doing so, if there's be such thread.
Here's another idea for you all: a good factor to take into consideration when judging a ROM is the number of users using it. It's a good indicator of the ROM's value, since X no. of users are hangin' on to that. Why not post and maintain a simple poll with the most common ROMs (stock and cooked) and see where it gets you?
I hope that my analogy makes sense. In the Linux world, Fedora produces a lot of rapid releases and these release may (and often do) contain unreliable/unstable features that may or may not work properly. This is why these releases go to great pains to say that they are not production ready.
Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) or even CentOS have a much slower release cycle but the features that they roll out are very solidly tested and ready for production environments.
I watch Android.HD2ROMS.com for information about HD2 Android ROMs and it seems like every ROM produces a new version every other day. Often, these builds are rolling out every new kernel update, .CONF patch, etc. without much testing as to their ramifications.
Many of these ROMs are causing problems like "robot voice", random reboots, lock-ups when using Bluetooth, etc. Some of these issues (right now I'm fighting the issue where the person on the far end can't hear me if I've ever used the voice-to-text functionality) are a sever hindrance in my usability of the device simply as a phone.
I consider my phone a production device and while I don't want to go back to WinMo, I may have to just to have so I have a reliable phone device.
Are there any HD2 ROMs that take the RHEL approach and produce fewer builds but have more solid/reliable builds as a result?
While I _LOATHE_ the MIUI interface, they seem to take this (slow and stable) approach and I may just install MIUI and run LauncherPro or ADW on it instead of their stock Launcher.
I don't think I'm in the minority with this feeling about reliability. Hopefully some folks have some good feedback on ROMs.
Pongster's Hyperdroid GBX v12: Stable , Extremely Fast , almost bug-free, its been almost 2 months without an update it could never need 1 , its perfect as it is.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=918899
Wow,
1. Wrong section.
2. If you have been looking on that site you would see that there is plenty roms that are stable and haven't been updated for a while. The site is by default sorting roms per date they have been updated. So those you're talking about are probably roms still in DEVELOPMENT, hense the title for this section. They are being constantly developed with fixes and bugtesting.
3. HYPERDROIDGBX.
Why write a book about witch book to read? Just try them out, I'm sure there is some that will suit your needs.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
That's a newbie question but I want opinions from you.....
Which is the best ics based custom rom according to you.....and WHY please explain ..
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2
iaditya999 said:
That's a newbie question but I want opinions from you.....
Which is the best ics based custom rom according to you.....and WHY please explain ..
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use the AOKP M6 its the best ,fast very stable.
I would say CM9. Because.....
-Built from the ground up from aosp. Makes it very clean
-Very Smooth, much smoother than GB
-Tons of other options such as lockscreen shortcuts, theme engine, status bar toggles etc.
-Lots of support
-Updated VERY frequently
-Almost No bugs.
I'd recommend CM9 or AOKP. Both can be found in the dev section here.
I've tried most ics and I'd definitely have to say slim ics.
It has strict rules about keeping it light so you can definitely expect serious performance from this one (most likely better than the rest) yet has all the cool bells and whistles from the kang project like customized toggles, battery indicators, bln, etc.
It's updated frequently when the author thinks something happens that warrants an update (like the linaro thing). Your phone will even notify you when a new rom update is available.
No bug fixes because, to be honest, i've been running it for a few months and I'm yet to find a bug. If you look through this rom's dev thread you'll find most people joke about something else because there are that few problems to talk about in this rom. They will seriously answer, however, if a real problem is posted.
The only thing to take care is the default launcher. Dev has included lightning launcher (for lightness purposes). For as awesome as it may be, most people find it a ***** to customize and just end up installing nova or apex launchers.
Battery's fine - lasts the day with heavy use, it's all i ask. Def lasts longer if i did less.
Some of my uses for this rom:
Heavy texting / phonecalls
Friendscaster (aka facebook whith awesome widget)
Bluetooth connection with my car (stream mp3 and handsfree, contacts even show in my car)
Heavy book/manga reading
Video watching, yt, flash pages, movies/series to kill time
Web browsing ( default browser is actually very good, plays flash like a champ)
Torrent downloading
Gps (my gps never ever worked no matter what. It's actually borderline usable with this rom)
Xda
Listen some music
Take pictures (very good camera, you can check my cat in the "show your best shots: thread)
Manage my calendar and quick notes
Document editing (gdocs)
Play some games (I'm on max payne atm)
Etc
If nothing else, definitely worths the shot. Try it out.
Elite's also good, or at least was when i left it.
Sent from my SlimGS
I also vote for slim ics. I really like the idea about barebones rom with few apps but tons of settings. It's also fast, stable and updates have been good quality.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2
I will say this.......there are so many threads that ask this same question that to create another one is purely proof of one's inability to read, think, test and form ones own opinion....because that is all you get-...opinions, some people want loads of customization, some want loads of bells and whistles, some want it slim as possible .......but everyone is hoping that you.............LEARN TO READ.
slaphead20 said:
I will say this.......there are so many threads that ask this same question that to create another one is purely proof of one's inability to read, think, test and form ones own opinion....because that is all you get-...opinions, some people want loads of customization, some want loads of bells and whistles, some want it slim as possible .......but everyone is hoping that you.............LEARN TO READ.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are recently 2 noobs that create all of these annoying threads. I can't get it.
I vote for Infinitum LBR (sadly not updated anymore)
And ICS333.
Because they both work smoothly. Infinitum had a nicer notification bar however.
YALTS:
Yet Another Lazy Thread Starter
- someone who doesn't want to search and read this forum to find answers.
Hi,
There is a really good i9001 wiki and another updated sticky Rom List but still there is no objective information on battery life or performance.
And that is quite annoying because all ROM developers claim that they have coded THE ROM and that it is the best in the whole universe.
Well... turns out it ain't...
And even if it was, it would be nice to see how it compares to the second best or to the previous version of the same ROM.
By resorting to testing with apps like battery spy and benchmarking tools, objective ranking of ROMS would be possible [maybe even a developer app could be developed to include this in ROMS themselves and report data from users if allowed].
I know there is the issue of user profiles being different, etc. thus a ranking wouldn't necessarily apply to every user, but it would be an indicator as the advertised fuel consumtion and horsepower of a car is.
This would be very useful for users navigating the forum in search of their next ROM and for developers also, as it would promote competition with a baseline quality indicator. Surely some would code for fake performance (or avoidance) of this benchmarking but the good, elite developers working on major ROMS would abide by it.
Really good i9001 Wiki:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=1374339
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki..._Plus/GT-I9001
Updated Sticky i9001 Rom List:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=1901212
I have yet to find any decent threads anywhere regarding the best settings for the Nexus 7 so I thought I would start and hopefully learn some info from other users and provide a good resource thread for others.
I have not overclocked and haven't added any cutom tweaks to governors and schedulers yet so my experience so far has been with the default kernel options. Since hardware is different and kernel/rom experiences will vary I will just start with Scheduler, Governor, and other general tweaks.
Scheduler:
i have so far had the best experiences with SIO, and NOOP
Governor:
So far the best balance between performance and battery life has been with Pegasusq and Interactive
ADJ and LMK:
I don't use any scripts like Supercharger I like to do everything manually, here are the values I have found that offer the smoothest user experience:
ADJ:
0,1,3,6,9,15
1536,9216,25600,51200,76800,102400 - (Wife's for general use and multi-tasking)
ADJ:
0,1,4,7,10,15
5120,15360,61440,81920,102400,122880 - (Mine for gaming and high performance)
I have boat-loads of tweaks that I have used for roms I have built for other devices, but hesitant to use them with the Nexus 7 due to the fact that I don't want to cause any negative effects. I have added generic linux tweaks (ext4, database defrag, kernel tweaks) but the Adreno and Powervr tweaks obviously are null and void for this. As I discover more I will definitely share.
I have had issues getting custom LMK values loaded on some kernels, but franco and anything based off Motley has worked just fine. I know there is a bug with LMK on some source versions and assume it is related to that, but if anyone has found a workaround i would be very interested as I would love to give the other kernels a shot.
I am intrigued about lulzactive but the parameters need to be tweaked as the default settings provide horrible battery life. I am interested to know what other people have been using and any info you want to provide is welcome and greatly appreciated!
The problem with such threads and people sharing all this info is everyone uses something different, meaning what tweaks and settings you use for your given device are dependent also on the ROM and the kernel you're using so...
You can see how that basically ends up being a thread full of info where people just end up saying "oh yeah, well my <whatever device> can get <however many hours> of battery life..." and so on.
It's a good idea I suppose but it only ends up providing benefits to those people that a) end up using the same hardware and b) end up using the same ROMs and c) end up using the same kernels too. And yes I know this is the Nexus 7 so that covers the device aspect right there...
Suffice to say this: none of the tweaks or info you provided in your post are relevant to me at all with my Nexus 7 as the kernel I use (M-Kernel a37) doesn't support the kinds of governors that are considered the more esoteric ones (it has interactive, ondemand, touchdemand, and performance) nor the same class of schedulers (it has noop, deadline, row, and bfq). Would be nice but, I look at it this way:
Both the Paranoid Android developers (any and all of them) as well as Metallice who's responsible for M-Kernel, have done a metric frak-ton of work before I even got a Nexus 7 with testing, builds, more testing, more builds, testing, more testing, even more testing, and they continue to develop and test even to this moment and my Nexus 7 runs fabulously, I honestly can't ask for more considering the performance (even with the default of 2 cores enabled with my choice of kernel) and battery life (which is damned amazing as well).
But who knows, maybe something useful will show up... I've just gotten to a point where "It just works" and that's good enough for me. Tweaking is just boring nowadays, but that's just my opinion.
<all this is coming from a guy that's been tweaking computers and consumer electronics of all kinds, shapes, and sizes for several decades now, and yes I can honestly say "I've pretty much seen it all...">
br0adband said:
You can see how that basically ends up being a thread full of info where people just end up saying "oh yeah, well my <whatever device> can get <however many hours> of battery life..." and so on.
It's a good idea I suppose but it only ends up providing benefits to those people that a) end up using the same hardware and b) end up using the same ROMs and c) end up using the same kernels too. And yes I know this is the Nexus 7 so that covers the device aspect right there...
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Given that this is the Nexus 7 forum, <whatever device> = <Nexus 7>
richardorvince said:
Given that this is the Nexus 7 forum, <whatever device> = <Nexus 7>
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I covered that in the last sentence you just quoted.
I know I only have 9 posts here and that makes me a "noob" in the eyes of most people here, but I am by no means a noob in general, just a noob when it comes to tegra. I have boosted performance and battery life (up to 50%) on other devices and don't see any reason why it can't be done on this one.
I already touched on the fact that opinions are just that, experiences may vary, but when it comes to governors there is a discernable difference when it comes to battery life and performance and that is what I am inquiring about. There are also tunables which can change a governor from completely horrible to exceptional. THis is why I am inquiring. Don't bother yourself with this thread if it is of no use to you.
If you'd take the time - if you haven't already - to read with comprehension the threads for kernels like franco.Kernel and M-Kernel you'd see a massive if not overwhelming amount of information that you're actually looking for that's already been done. Those two kernels - and probably most of the other popular ones - have extensive levels of research and testing already done on them and in their most currently available forms they are the epitome of kernel development on the Nexus 7, and I stand by that statement even in spite of me not being a developer myself. I have read thousands upon thousands of posts and done my own little amounts of experimentation just to prove to myself that yes, those two kernels (and probably others) provide exactly what their respective developers have worked so hard to provide:
Exceptional performance overall coupled with exceptional battery life as well. Yes you can do your own tuning for your own particular needs and wants and even your own requirements as needed which is pretty much what you're apparently hoping to discover from other people and their own experiences.
I'm not saying this thread is a bad idea, I'm saying it's been done before: hundreds if not thousands of times in the very threads that exist for each of the respective kernels (and ROMs by association). The kernel threads have extreme amounts of info on basic tunables, governors, schedulers, pretty much every last thing you or anyone else could ever do to squeeze out the best they offer and the the developers implement that stuff into the defaults of their kernels based on the results of testing and reports from users implementing them.
The info is out there, you just have to go find it - and yes I note that you said you'd never found any decent threads about the Nexus 7 which is precisely what prompted my first reply: the info is already out there in the kernel and ROM threads.
There can't be a "best of" type thread like this because there's just so many different variations of kernels, ROMs, etc even if the device is the same amongst all the people.
Also, one aspect that most people don't realize: there are different revisions of the Nexus 7 hardware and they tend to perform differently. I, for example, have an original (and I mean first production run) Nexus 7 8GB model that has totally different performance characteristics than the later revisions of the same 8GB model, and then the 16GB and 32GB models are even different on another level because they use faster Flash-RAM onboard than the 8GB models ever did.
So again, it's a great idea and I figured if nobody else ever created one I'd do it myself, but in the long run every device is going to perform differently. Even if you had two Nexus 7s that came off the production line one right after the other and you tested them with the exact same ROMs, kernels, and tweaks, you'd get different results from each one. I'm not being facetious when I say that, I'm being totally absolutely dead serious.
Also, there is no really good overall benchmark for Android, probably never will be. You have to use different ones geared towards specific purposes to get any useful data, like AndroBench which tests the storage specifically and Vellamo which can test the HTML/surfing performance specifically. Antutu is probably the best actually useful overall system benchmark but unfortunately more people use Quadrant which is a shame because that one is so useless the results can vary rather dramatically even if you run it several times in a row.
Believe me, I've been tweaking for decades, so there's nothing I can say or do that'll stop anyone from doing it - I know the bug of "Upgraditis" quite well and have suffered from it forever, right alongside the companion condition known as being a Tweakaholic...
br0adband said:
If you'd take the time - if you haven't already - to read with comprehension the threads for kernels like franco.Kernel and M-Kernel you'd see a massive if not overwhelming amount of information that you're actually looking for that's already been done. Those two kernels - and probably most of the other popular ones - have extensive levels of research and testing already done on them and in their most currently available forms they are the epitome of kernel development on the Nexus 7, and I stand by that statement even in spite of me not being a developer myself. I have read thousands upon thousands of posts and done my own little amounts of experimentation just to prove to myself that yes, those two kernels (and probably others) provide exactly what their respective developers have worked so hard to provide:
Exceptional performance overall coupled with exceptional battery life as well. Yes you can do your own tuning for your own particular needs and wants and even your own requirements as needed which is pretty much what you're apparently hoping to discover from other people and their own experiences.
I'm not saying this thread is a bad idea, I'm saying it's been done before: hundreds if not thousands of times in the very threads that exist for each of the respective kernels (and ROMs by association). The kernel threads have extreme amounts of info on basic tunables, governors, schedulers, pretty much every last thing you or anyone else could ever do to squeeze out the best they offer and the the developers implement that stuff into the defaults of their kernels based on the results of testing and reports from users implementing them.
The info is out there, you just have to go find it - and yes I note that you said you'd never found any decent threads about the Nexus 7 which is precisely what prompted my first reply: the info is already out there in the kernel and ROM threads.
There can't be a "best of" type thread like this because there's just so many different variations of kernels, ROMs, etc even if the device is the same amongst all the people.
Also, one aspect that most people don't realize: there are different revisions of the Nexus 7 hardware and they tend to perform differently. I, for example, have an original (and I mean first production run) Nexus 7 8GB model that has totally different performance characteristics than the later revisions of the same 8GB model, and then the 16GB and 32GB models are even different on another level because they use faster Flash-RAM onboard than the 8GB models ever did.
So again, it's a great idea and I figured if nobody else ever created one I'd do it myself, but in the long run every device is going to perform differently. Even if you had two Nexus 7s that came off the production line one right after the other and you tested them with the exact same ROMs, kernels, and tweaks, you'd get different results from each one. I'm not being facetious when I say that, I'm being totally absolutely dead serious.
Also, there is no really good overall benchmark for Android, probably never will be. You have to use different ones geared towards specific purposes to get any useful data, like AndroBench which tests the storage specifically and Vellamo which can test the HTML/surfing performance specifically. Antutu is probably the best actually useful overall system benchmark but unfortunately more people use Quadrant which is a shame because that one is so useless the results can vary rather dramatically even if you run it several times in a row.
Believe me, I've been tweaking for decades, so there's nothing I can say or do that'll stop anyone from doing it - I know the bug of "Upgraditis" quite well and have suffered from it forever, right alongside the companion condition known as being a Tweakaholic...
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Click to collapse
Blah Blah Blah
I mean seriously dude, that is a lot of words for saying absolutely nothing.
I am a developer on other devices, and I will be releasing roms for this one as well. I was looking for personal experience, not an opinion from someone who has absolutely nothing to add. I have been a member of this site for over six months, and I am just now hitting the "10 post requirement" to post in the developer forums. Why?? Because I am not out to make a name for myself on this website, I already have a reputation - a good one - on others, places where post counts and titles mean nothing unless you have actually developed something.
I work and have a family so I don't have tons of time to test out schedulers and governors so I was looking for some info from others and gave some of my own in return. I am not a tweakaholic, but you will thank me when I release an optimized ROM with extended battery life and a fluid and smooth user experience.
This site is great in a lot of ways, but I have noticed there are a lot of egotistical holier than thou people on the forums who like nothing better than to put other people down and be (for lack of a better word) ***holes. If your hobby is to crap on other peoples threads then it is time for a life change, get out and find a girl-friend, or friends in general.
You're a ROM developer and a member at the biggest most popular site on the entire Internet for ROM development for mobile devices and it took you six months to get to 10 posts? Guess I'm missing something but whatever, you go right on going on, son, I'll keep an eye out for your progress.
As for thanking you for ROMs, no, that won't happen since you're too far behind the curve now and anything you come up with will basically be copied work that others before you have long since created and improved upon (even if you don't realize it). If you're that busy with 'real life' and whatever - which always seems to be the reason, go figure - then perhaps you don't have the time to focus on such tasks in the first place. Priorities, man, priorities.
Ad hominem sure seems to be the norm for people online these days, wonder why.
Fact - 95% of the battery tweaks are placebo at best.
The remaining come from kernel developers who have a firm grasp on undervolting and can actually get a little longer battery life out of your device.
The best blanket solution to increasing your battery.. Turn off Location Access and Google Now.
Yes my job and family are my priority. As they should be. Also my point was I am not trying to boosty my post count to show how "cool" I am, I could care less. As it should be.
And no battery tweaks are not placebo, unless you are using placebo battery tweaks of course. There are Build.prop, init.d and sysctl.conf tweaks that can boost battery life 20-30% easy, and it can be proven. No placebo. If you choose to believe that then I have no problem with it.
I thank both of you for littering this thread with crap. I will not bother with this one I have much better things going on other forums. I truly wish I knew as much as you guys, It must suck to know everything because life must be truly boring for you.