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Hello Xda
i am wondering are we can able to upgrade to windows mobile 6.5 in the future and windows mobile 7 too.
also can we will be able to use multi touch function on hd device?
Well on past models HTC have released new ROMs with newer version of WM, so you would think they would release new updated ROMs for the HD.
Unless they have another new phone on the horizon! You would think they would wanna sell 1 or 2 HD's first though before they release another 'high end' handset.
Philio25 said:
Well on past models HTC have released new ROMs with newer version of WM, so you would think they would release new updated ROMs for the HD.
Unless they have another new phone on the horizon! You would think they would wanna sell 1 or 2 HD's first though before they release another 'high end' handset.
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You would think so wouldn't you but then there was not much time between the diamond/Pro & the HD!
tingsagwaan said:
You would think so wouldn't you but then there was not much time between the diamond/Pro & the HD!
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Yer was very close, I heard mixed reviews of the Diamond/Pro so held of upgrading, then the HD popped up on the HTC website so waited for the HD instead!
winmo 7 is said to have hardware requirement of 256MB ROM for the OS. so should be fine.
WinMo 6.5 will probably be less than 256MB ROM too so all go there too.
TOUCH HD should be well future-proofed for WinMo updates (official or otherwise), and then there's the possibility of Android too......
I think and hope that they will release at least an update to winmo 6.5 But I also think you shouldn't hope for Multitouch! If i'm not totally wrong the HD use a resisitiv Touchscreen and they are all not cabable of Multitouch, doesn't matter which Firmware is running
There is supposed to be a pre-WM7 release, not sure what else is included but supposedly it will have a better version of the IE browser.
I imagine this may depends on how much WM7 will be a change and needs adjustment from HTC. Like... what will be the touch 3D layer then ?
My bet is, the more we are expecting from WM7 as a breaktthrough in the series the less me may use it on this version of the Touch HD.
Eitum said:
I think and hope that they will release at least an update to winmo 6.5 But I also think you shouldn't hope for Multitouch! If i'm not totally wrong the HD use a resisitiv Touchscreen and they are all not cabable of Multitouch, doesn't matter which Firmware is running
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Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches - and even laptop trackpads can too, it's just that there's never been any software developed for it, and the operating system has just been hard coded to ignore multiple touch points and averaged them out to somewhere in the middle of where touched.It's pretty much a case of trackpad and touchscreen designers going "hmm what about if someone touches with two points at the same time? Ah well, there's no reason for doing that, let's just average it out"
Now, more realistically speaking, what exactly is the benefit of multi-touch on a mobile operating system? Pinch zooming? The zoom bar on Opera seems pretty simple and actually easier to use to me! Anything else? New Macbooks use gestures for Expose (no use for that on a mobile), two finger scrolling (about the only day-to-day useful feature, but again useless on a mobile device with finger scrolling anyway!) Two finger rotating maybe (um, accelerometer does that for you!) so anybody got any more suggestions for making this gimmick actually useable on a portable device that can't do it better already?
How can you play an instrument like a keyboard without multi touch!
While such a functionality might be an intesting one, it also seems like a step backwards in certain aspects.
Single handed operation is one of the essential aspects of mobile phones.
chaosdefinesorder said:
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches
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would be fine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3Owgcos_KY
multi-touch on windows mobile on HTC diamond.....just not in the way you may expect.
chaosdefinesorder said:
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches - and even laptop trackpads can too, it's just that there's never been any software developed for it, and the operating system has just been hard coded to ignore multiple touch points and averaged them out to somewhere in the middle of where touched.It's pretty much a case of trackpad and touchscreen designers going "hmm what about if someone touches with two points at the same time? Ah well, there's no reason for doing that, let's just average it out"
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No correction needed, this is 100% true. Touchscreens do not register clicks, or anything similar, the screen itself is nothing but a sensor. The screen sensor layer on the HD screen registers any surface part of the screen on which the pressure exceeds a given threshold and the output is translated by a driver into anything the OS uses for manipulation. Thus, theoretically, ANY touchscreen device can be multitouch.
chaosdefinesorder said:
Now, more realistically speaking, what exactly is the benefit of multi-touch on a mobile operating system? Pinch zooming? The zoom bar on Opera seems pretty simple and actually easier to use to me! Anything else? New Macbooks use gestures for Expose (no use for that on a mobile), two finger scrolling (about the only day-to-day useful feature, but again useless on a mobile device with finger scrolling anyway!) Two finger rotating maybe (um, accelerometer does that for you!) so anybody got any more suggestions for making this gimmick actually useable on a portable device that can't do it better already?
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Many of the more objective iPhone users have indicated that multitouch should not be overrated. It is nice for picture viewing, but in practical terms such as with a browser, it can be frustrating to see people zooming in to 100% with a swift doubletap while the iPhone users themselves are having to place two fingers on the screen, prevent accidentally using your nails, and having to squeeze/pinch until the page looks right.
BUT... I for one believe that more natural forms of input, i.e. a Keyboard, REQUIRES multitouch to function 100% intuitively. You simply do not need to release your finger from one key in order to press another, and a singletouch screen does require this. This causes lots of mistakes when typing too fast, you have to be over-articulate while typing.
Then again, I see most iPhone users typing with one thumb even when sitting down and holding the phone with both hands, because it's their first smartphone Not fair... WinMo pro's should have received this years ago
Oops I am straying from objectivity here...
Windows mobile 7 prebeta video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-i2jHEFdD4
Muhamed said:
Windows mobile 7 prebeta video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-i2jHEFdD4
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No it's not.
^ The interface looks new and cool...If its not WM 7...then what is it?
Nara-e-Mastana said:
^ The interface looks new and cool...If its not WM 7...then what is it?
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from the youtube video info:
Device: HTC Touch (elf)
Skin name: Windows Mobile 7 i3
(i3 = 3 interface)
Skin version: QVGA
was it really that hard to read? the info was RIGHT THERE.
where to find
Out of curiosity where do we find this skin? all I can find is that youtube video. At the moment I'm getting a little bored with my current ROM and right now am looking for a new replacement look on my vogue.
chaosdefinesorder said:
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches - and even laptop trackpads can too, it's just that there's never been any software developed for it, and the operating system has just been hard coded to ignore multiple touch points and averaged them out to somewhere in the middle of where touched.It's pretty much a case of trackpad and touchscreen designers going "hmm what about if someone touches with two points at the same time? Ah well, there's no reason for doing that, let's just average it out"
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Just another confirmation of this. Synaptics, the maker of most touchpads for laptops, released driver updates for laptops to include multi-touch pinching, gestures, zooming, and Chiral(circular) scrolling - These were for touchpads that could previous only do what WinMo does with multiple touches.
So, as everyone said, you're right. If the manufacturers wanted to, they *could* give us multi-touch, but WinMo doesn't have an implementation of that anyway so it's useless.
http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2007/05/04/dogfood-doesn-t-always-taste-good.aspx
chaosdefinesorder said:
(...)
so anybody got any more suggestions for making this gimmick actually useable on a portable device that can't do it better already?
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specially for hd which has almost no hardware buttons multitouch would be a nice feature videogame-wise... like shooting while running or steering while accelerating...
btw check out the blackstone rom development forum a custom rom with winmo6.5 beta has been released already. Just for testing purposes only though.
Multitouch pinch to zoom is nice and all, but I mainly am looking forward to it in games to get the kind of experience the iPhone has been delivering with onscreen dpads and buttons. It's the kind of thing necessary to play Nesoid and others on the Nexus One.
There's a game in the market called ToonWarz Lite that tries to implement exactly that; the left side is a dpad and the right side is buttons and look direction. Problem is... it doesn't really work that well. It doesn't seem to track two fingers consistently, especially if the two touch points "cross" the same axis. The game looks pretty great, but control is still a mess in my opinion. I'm hoping it will/can improve.
Is this a limitation in hardware? SDK? Just bad design? Is it that clumsy on an iPhone too (I've never used one)? I know multitouch is supported, but I'm just concerned if there are still hardware limitations preventing it from working as well as I wish it would.
Android has supported multitouch for a long time. We're just now getting Google Apps w/ multitouch...that is all.
So to answer your question, the game's multitouch is poorly designed.
Deathwish238 said:
So to answer your question, the game's multitouch is poorly designed.
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That's reassuring. Especially because in those multitouch demo apps (like MultiTouch Visualizer) the same problem seems to be apparent. Pressing two points near the same axis just seems to kind of stick and not register correctly. And it doesn't seem to react instantly, there's a delay before it recognizes the second touch point.
Does anybody know of an app that demonstrates it better, without the problems I've mentioned above?
Otherwise I'll just sit tight and hope for better implementation one day
dudinatrix said:
That's reassuring. Especially because in those multitouch demo apps (like MultiTouch Visualizer) the same problem seems to be apparent. Pressing two points near the same axis just seems to kind of stick and not register correctly. And it doesn't seem to react instantly, there's a delay before it recognizes the second touch point.
Does anybody know of an app that demonstrates it better, without the problems I've mentioned above?
Otherwise I'll just sit tight and hope for better implementation one day
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The last time I looked at the source for MTV it was using the "old style" of MT where it would infer the locations of the two fingers based on the "size" of the primary touch. This was the closest you could get back on 1.6 which lacked the true MT APIs. Also, this method involved a heuristic to determine when there was more than one touch - I think the size had to go over a threshold before it would try to decode the multiple touches. All in all it looked a lot like voodoo to me and I wasn't surprised by how flaky the results were, especially when crossing axes.
In 2.0 they now report each touch independently with its own size and pressure. I was going to hack the MTV app to do true multi-touch, but I never got around to it. Did you find a version of it that is "True MT" or is it still the same old original version that was doing it the old way?
I found that sometime when you touch two points at the same time, the phone doesn't response as expected. The screen only detect one point being pressed. This happens quite often and I am wondering if it is my phone's issue.
You can notice the problem easily when playing "Slice It".
hungyip84 said:
I found that sometime when you touch two points at the same time, the phone doesn't response as expected. The screen only detect one point being pressed. This happens quite often and I am wondering if it is my phone's issue.
You can notice the problem easily when playing "Slice It".
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Multi touch is app dependent, some apps dont support it, open up google maps and pinch to zoom
Multi touch works fine for me. Nothing like the shennaigans of the Nexus One. Downloaded multitouch visulaizer 2 - my touch screen can detect 5 points of touch at once!
Edit - I see what you mean on sliceit. Sometimes if you put down 2 fingers simultaneously, it will lose the track on one of the fingers. All you have to do is lift that finger and put it back down again and it regains track.
hungyip84 said:
I found that sometime when you touch two points at the same time, the phone doesn't response as expected. The screen only detect one point being pressed. This happens quite often and I am wondering if it is my phone's issue.
You can notice the problem easily when playing "Slice It".
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Click to collapse
I noticed that with Slice It! too and was messing around investigating it. Also, I think it's the app's issue, since I've never had any other problems with multi-touch anywhere else.
sound like more of a bug with some specific Apps rather than a hardware issue.
as the multitouch test apps works just fine, if it were a hardware problem those test apps should be failing as well.
I don't know if you guys remember, but when the N1 got its first update to enable "multitouch", there was a lot of speculation that it wasn't true multitouch as Apple has it patented. I wonder if they're continuing on that same track or whether Google said screw Apple and dropped it in anyway.
allen099 said:
I don't know if you guys remember, but when the N1 got its first update to enable "multitouch", there was a lot of speculation that it wasn't true multitouch as Apple has it patented. I wonder if they're continuing on that same track or whether Google said screw Apple and dropped it in anyway.
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No. back then they used thinkpad2000 or something like that. forgot the same. wasnt real one " much like what Sony is doing with xperia x10" right now
the nexus s has true multi touch.
On the subject do any of you guys have problems with zoom in your photo galleries. When ever i try to pinch to zoom in for example to someones face it will start to zoom somewhere else. Don't know if its just my phone or everyones.
I tried to do the multi touch test using multi touch visualizer and multi touch tester. In multi touch tester, it only detect one touch point when i touch two points at the same time. In multi touch visualizer, it detect two touch points but the second point has a 1-2 second delay when i do the same test. I did the same test using Droid and galaxy s and they don't have the problem mentioned...any thought?
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Slightly off topic, but in the Gallery app in the Album thumbnail section, you can two-finger press an album and spread your fingers and it'll give you a mini-slide show right there. Very impressive.
hungyip84 said:
I tried to do the multi touch test using multi touch visualizer and multi touch tester. In multi touch tester, it only detect one touch point when i touch two points at the same time. In multi touch visualizer, it detect two touch points but the second point has a 1-2 second delay when i do the same test. I did the same test using Droid and galaxy s and they don't have the problem mentioned...any thought?
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
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i never heard of a screen that has a multi touch problem as in hardware issue.
but try different nexus S. if its doing the same thing then your phone is fine.
allen099 said:
I don't know if you guys remember, but when the N1 got its first update to enable "multitouch", there was a lot of speculation that it wasn't true multitouch as Apple has it patented. I wonder if they're continuing on that same track or whether Google said screw Apple and dropped it in anyway.
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Click to collapse
Apple patented a specific method for implementing multi-touch... part of it is UI, which was only granted in the US, and part was technical... in either case, there are new ways of doing multi touch in technical terms, and as for UI Apple doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to "generic" actions like pinch to zoom, et al.
Some ppl in thus thread also experience the same problem. To me this is not a acceptable multi touch experience. I hope this can be fixed by an firmware update.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
I just tested the multitouch capabilities of the Atrix. It only registered two fingers? wow I have expected that it will recognize at least 4.....I don't play games on my phone so I don't worry too much but still it leaves a bitter taste...
You can't really use more than 2 fingers on a 4" screen anyway unless you have tiny hands.
Why would you ever need 4 point multitouch on the atrix to begin with... I mean of all the things to complain about this is the lame...
dumasymptote said:
Why would you ever need 4 point multitouch on the atrix to begin with... I mean of all the things to complain about this is the lame...
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First of all. I wasn't complaining. I just wanted to test how accurate the multitouch is because I am a former N1 user and the multitouch sucked. It was more by curiosity that I tried 3 fingers. I had also a Nexus S and a MT4G and they could register several fingers. I thought that all newer touch sensors were multi finger enabled...
BTW I like my Atrix very much and the screen responsiveness is better than on my HTC devices that I had.
from the build.prop file, it says 2 max touches.
I tried to change the value to 4 but it still would only register 2.
wierd my Nexus S allowed 5
and htc desire HD allowed 4
i think newer screens would allow more, not that it matters
just curious
Is by brand is not HTC so don't expect the same I guess it does suck tho , oh well
I looked at the fixit site and they say it is the same sensor as in the Nexus S: Atmel mXT224. But this beast should have unlimited touch according to the manufacturer. Interesting maybe it is disabled software wise.
As a former N1 user, this touch issue is not important. What is important is it registers two independent touches and never confuses them.
Why is this important? Virtual game joystick and buttons. You will never use more than two touches for that.
Yes there are a few games or apps that can do more than two touches and it is disappointing to not have that enabled. But we will almost never notice this.
snlu178 said:
As a former N1 user, this touch issue is not important. What is important is it registers two independent touches and never confuses them.
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This has already been proven for the Atrix (that it treats multitouch correctly); read about it a few days ago on this very forum.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11540136&postcount=56
The Atrix has the same ATMEL multitouch sensor as the Nexus S, EVO, etc. So we know it can register at least 5 screen inputs at once. The apps you are using to test the multitouch input simply does not support the device (yet), and will need to be updated in order to for this phone to register multiple inputs beyond 2. This is simply a case of outdated software on new hardware.
novaIS350 said:
The Atrix has the same ATMEL multitouch sensor as the Nexus S, EVO, etc. So we know it can register at least 5 screen inputs at once. The apps you are using to test the multitouch input simply does not support the device (yet), and will need to be updated in order to for this phone to register multiple inputs beyond 2. This is simply a case of outdated software on new hardware.
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The EVO would not register more than two touch points while operating on the stock kernel - and it was shown after rooting and unlocking the bootloader that there were two different touch panels - one that could do three points and one that could do 5.
So hopefully the OE kernel enables the use of the max number of touch points supported by the screen and it is just a matter of outdated software.
so far I have downloaded multitouch test, touch test, multitouch visualizer 2, and multitouch tester all from the android market and the results are always dual imput, not multi...
Am I doning something wrong is the fact that it will not register a third or more imputs... I thought we had up to 5 digit touch
Can anyone confirm or deny?
Thanks
more than 2 fingers, Apple will give u a hard time
majik8ball said:
so far I have downloaded multitouch test, touch test, multitouch visualizer 2, and multitouch tester all from the android market and the results are always dual imput, not multi...
Am I doning something wrong is the fact that it will not register a third or more imputs... I thought we had up to 5 digit touch
Can anyone confirm or deny?
Thanks
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Use the app phonetester. That is the most accurate.
dumasymptote said:
Why would you ever need 4 point multitouch on the atrix to begin with... I mean of all the things to complain about this is the lame...
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This is a terrible problem. I had to stop playing metroid zero mission on my old phone, because you couldn't press the r trigger, the up button, and the b button simultaneously, and you needed to (those 3 buttons when pressed shoot misslles up) in order to kill the boss.
has anyone tried some emulators, like snes or psx or gameboid? i wonder if it reconizes more than two touch imputs..??
ronan_zj said:
more than 2 fingers, Apple will give u a hard time
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DING DING DING finally someone remembers...
http://www.tgdaily.com/business-and...-back-at-motorola-with-multitouch-patent-suit
Apple, Google and device makers have been embroiled in patent lawsuits since the first Android devices were being made. It still continues. If folks recall, there was huge controversy when I think the original Droid (or was it even earlier, the G1 maybe?) came out and didn't have multitouch in the US, but the international version did. This is why and it continues to be an issue.
What are you talking about... The ATT captivate with the froyo ROM does 5 fingers...
Galaxy s has 5 touch
I noticed that the GB stock keyboard on the N1 isn't multi-touch. At least the multi-touch for the "alt" button combo isn't working. This was the feature I was most excited about but now I'm dissappointed.
BTW, I'm getting much lower quadrant scores than Nexus One with 2.2+. Anyone else having this issue too?
I guess Google disabled this on purpose. Stupid touch sensor!!! Is the Korean IME keyboard multitouch? (The Google Korean IME keyboard uses the Gingerboard layout).
My understanding was that the Nexus One hardware is not capable of true multitouch. This was discussed at length throughout the first half of 2010. It can do pinch-to-zoom because that gesture only needs to know the separation between your two fingers, but it can't do anything that requires actually knowing for sure where your two fingers are. You can download a multitouch demo app from the Market to see the limitations of the N1. This is the same reason that the N1 can't do the two-finger rotate gesture in the new Maps.
enisoc said:
My understanding was that the Nexus One hardware is not capable of true multitouch. This was discussed at length throughout the first half of 2010. It can do pinch-to-zoom because that gesture only needs to know the separation between your two fingers, but it can't do anything that requires actually knowing for sure where your two fingers are. You can download a multitouch demo app from the Market to see the limitations of the N1. This is the same reason that the N1 can't do the two-finger rotate gesture in the new Maps.
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Precisely. If you do this fix on your phone, once rooted, you will get a buggy multi-touch experience.