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S.O.S. Memory management on Jam...

Hi all!
I'm Markino from Italy and I've got some question about I-Mate Jam.
I don't undertand the memory management of this device: how the RAM-ROM and MMC are used by the Windows Mobile 2003 SE? If I install an application, where the files are stored? If the battery drops down what I'll lose?
Many thanks and sorry for my bad English!
Marco

Marco, in theory you should let Windows to manage your memory. The i-mate JAM has 64MB of ROM and 64MB of RAM. The ROM is mostly occupied with OS and other 3rd party software that installs automatically when you hard reset the phone. Part of this ROM is also used when using the "Permanent Storage" feature of the OS, where it lets you save some files, contacts, etc.
What should really interest you is the RAM. The OS uses this RAM for running programs (like the RAM on your PC) and the rest is used for storage. If you go to Start -> Settings -> Memory, the OS will tell you how much of your RAM is being used for Running Programs and how much is used for Storage.
The safest place for your data would be an SD Card, as anything stored on the SD card will stay in tact after a hard reset.

Thanks kta! You're great!
Well.. in your opinion what is the best way to use the Jam's RAM with a 512MB SD installed?
I can configure the device to use all the RAM space to run program and store all the file and app. in the SD or it's better to use a part of RAM to some particoular application?
The SD Ultra II are really faster in the Jam?

The more free RAM you have the faster your mobile works. I would suggest installing most of your programs on the storage card. Before installing a program make sure that it can run smoothly on an SD card. Most programs do work well when installed on the storage card so it shouldn never be a problem.
Having said that, RAM is MUCH faster than an SD card, although modern SD cards like the UltraII give over 9MB per second (66x) write speed.
A more complex option (the one I'm using) is to install a hacked ROM (aka Big Storage ROM) where you will be able to gain an extra 27MB of Storage (i.e. in RAM). You can then use this storage space for installing programs and these should work slightly faster than when installed on an SD card. However, installing the hacked ROM requires some experience with ROMS and would not suggest you go for it unless you want to end up with your JAM stuck in bootloader mode :wink:
With regards to SD cards, the faster the speed (i.e. 40x, 66x, 133x) the better.
And if you intend to use your JAM as an MP3 player I would suggest going for a 1GB or 2GB SD card. The price difference usually justifies the extra space! Before buying a 2GB card, check these forums for compatibility issues as some of them did not work on the JAM.
Hope I didn't confuse you more!

SD card speed on the JAM makes no difference for operating the device, since the JAM can only read/write the SD card at the standard speed - buying a faster card makes no difference.
A faster card is useful if you frequently copy large files between your SD card and your PC, but for the JAM it makes no difference.

MDAPro Just a few questions?

Forgive me for not really being able to search deeply into this matter, I've seen threads detailing updating with the JasJar ROM or an amalgamation of the the MDA/O2 ROM.
1) I have 43.72mb total storage and 47.93mb Program storage. This results in 91.65mb total storage??? Right, at 128megs where has 40mbs gone? I have pretty much the exact same set up on the MDA3 yet the two figures more or less add up to 128mb. Can someone confirm these figures with me?
2) Is there a new ROM coming out and soon? I'm not one to complain if results are going to happen, but the memory issue is a biggy to me as there is one more program I want to install on the thing and I doubt there will be enough free memory.
3) Software, I'm sure there was a better suite of software on the MDA3 when that came out. Okay time consuming it may be but sometimes I do like to run Messenger when I'm on the train - where has it gone? And if Microsoft think I'm going to pay £10.99 more for that feature they can go swivel. I followed a thread that said it's included in Windows - it's not on the MDA Pro.
I really love the design of the thing but the software just seems to be a joke. Where do I start? I have posted the MDA3 for sale on Ebay and I want to honour that sale, but I also want a device that replaces my MDA3 100%.
This includes getting TomTom 5 to work with my BT GPS receiver!!!

1. Sorry not sure about the memory
2. I havent heard of a new T-mobile ROM being available and they never seemed to work on any updates for the MDAiii
3. The software suite was better - I miss my messenger too and like you I am reluctant to pay microsoft a tenner! The backup software isnt avialbel either which is an arse.
4. Good luck with TT5 I had to upgrade my co-pilot to get it to work on new os.

If at all possible could anyone with the MDAPro and the carrier ROM please do a memory check on theirs to compare with mine?
If you're not sure how to do it - Start/Settings/System/Memory, I just need the total figures for Storage and Program

I have the same memory CONFIG as you have stated!

In WM5 you have separate ROM & RAM configuration unlike WM2k3...
So here's how ur memory is split up -
1. RAM 64MB
Out of 64 megs of RAM, you loose roughly 17MB on internal allocation. For the device to run perfectly it has various fixed RAM permanently allocated (DMA buffers (for ur cameras etc.), kernel level memory allocation, GSM memory, video memory, mem swap space, cache etc.). This total memory fixed can vary from device to device, and each company can tweak it accordingly. Eventually, the OS has roughly 47MB for use. Now again, when WM5 powers up, it again consumes around 17megs of RAM, giving you 30-32 megs of ram to use for your programs or apps!
2. ROM 128MB (permanent storage)
This is divided into the following -
a. OS install: This is where WM5 related files etc. gets stored. This is a total of 64Megs
b. Extended ROM: This is used by maufacturers to store their customizations etc. Another 20megs allocated for this
c. User storage: This is the space available for you to install programs, and for windows to bloat Thats 43megs that you find!
Hope this clears out
Cheers,
San

Thanks for you response having had an XDA for some time and then the MDA I was just quite suprised to see a Memory low warning message so quickly as I never saw one on the MDA3. I wanted to confirm that I wasn't having memory issues.

Install what, where?

have a Qtek 9100 with 48MB internal memory and a 2GB add on card.
which programs & files should i install where?
if i install everything to the add on card, will my programs use the internal storage for program memory?
does it matter?
what is the relation between internal storage and program memory?
thanks for the great forums. i hope to contribute.
Qtek 9100 FR
flashed with WWE ROM 1.6.7.1
2GB Mini-SD from Moby Memory
Voice Command (UK female voice, love it!)

Hi there casemon...
To take your topics one at a time:
Some programs do not like being installed to the add-on card. The majority of the time when I tried to do that it caused more headaches than it was worth. In the reality of things, the concept of additional card storage was for keeping large accessory files such as music or maps so that you didn't have a large volume of data clogging your handheld. This is program-specific, so it is hard to say which ones will let you do that and which ones won't. I even had difficulty storing maps for MS Streets and trips on the SD card, as the program itself (which I installed on the handheld) kept losing the location of the maps.
Your handheld should be keeping tabs of available memory and readjusting storage and program memory as it goes along, however I find them to be a little too conservative with the program memory and usually end up tweaking it myself, which you can do just by moving the slider over a bit.
The relationship between internal storage and program memory is that you have only the alotted memory on board both for storing your programs and running them. The handheld keeps tabs on its memory availability and keeps a portion of it aside just for running programs. However, as I said above, they tend to be a bit too conservative, as I have had programs stall out midway. A quick tune up to the memory slider solves the problem every time.
Hope I was able to answer your questions. Take care.

Bacharette: your post is true for WM2003SE, WM5 works differently. Storage is there for storing apps and data, RAM only for running them and not for storing. In WM5, you can cram all of storage full of apps without effecting your device's RAM. I install most programs in ROM, only apps I seldom use I put on SD. Be aware that today plug-ins do not like to be installed on SD, better put them in your storage ROM. All other apps can go on SD or in ROM, but it makes no difference in your RAM.
The relationship on WM5 between storage and program memory is as follows: all files are stored in ROM, than loaded in RAM and run there till you close them. As long as you do not run too many apps at the same time, your RAM will not fill up very fast. Best advice is to use a taskmanager to really close apps as soon as you are done with them, thereby freeing up RAM.
Because ROM is storage place for apps and data, you will not lose them in case of empty battery.

thanks Bacharette & Koksie, that clears it up for me.
on a related note, another post in this forum is heating up about hacking your ROM to be smaller! check it out here;
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=34171&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
haven't tried it yet, but it's interesting. what a great site!
Qtek 9100 FR -flashed with WWE ROM 1.6.7.1
2GB Mini-SD from Moby Memory
Voice Command (UK female voice, love it!)

Memory Allocation

I have a question which puzzles me - perhaps the knowledgeable amongst us can answer it for me.
I have 2 devices, an Orange SPV M2000 (Blue Angel) and an O2 MDA Mini S (Wizard).
When I look at the device info I see this
........................................BA......................Wizard
RAM Size.........................128MB....................64MB
Flash Size..........................32MB....................128MB
Storage Size..................43.26MB.................47.46MB
When I look at the Memory Screen, the BA has 125.77MB main memory showing 62.88MB allocated to Storage and 62.89MB allocated to Program and a slider to alter the split of memory.
When I look at the Memory on the Wizard there is no slider and it shows 44.76MB allocated to Storage and 44.01MB allocated to Program.
Whichever way I look at it I cannot seem to make sense of the figures.
Can someone explain (in simple terms) what these figures mean and why there is such a dramatic difference between the RAM and Flash sizes on these two devices?

First the major difference between Blue Angel and Wizard. Blue Angel stores everything - your programs, data, etc. in RAM. It uses this same RAM for program memory. That's why you get a slider. It's also why, if your battery runs out or your reset it, you lost all your stuff. The Wizard, on the other hand, has memory dedicated for data/settings storage that's like flash memory (so you won't lose your stuff), and different memory for the RAM.
depending on the ROM/ExtRom/Radio Stack, etc. installed there's...
128MB total ROM
of which
44MB is available for storage of applications/user files
the rest is the operating system, extrom, etc.
and
64MB total RAM
of which
49MB is available for running programs/memory
the rest of which is the PIM running in the background, the phone running in the background, the radio stack running in the background, etc. All stuff that either the OEM or Microsoft decided you wouldn't want not running.

Thanks 'Z'.
Now it all makes more sense.

Sorry to resurrect a somewhat buried thread, but I was doing my research before posting by using the search function -- not bad for a newbie, eh? -- and ran across this thread which directly addresses some questions I've been dealing with, but I'd like to throw some stuff out to see if I understand completely.
As I understand it, the Wizard has 64MB of SDRAM, and 128MB of Flash storage memory, correct? On the developer.cingular.com it says 64MB Flash ROM and 128MB SDRAM which appears to be backwards.
On the device Memory manager after a hard reset and installing the Qtek 9100 customization .cab Storage shows Free 43.75 of 47.46MB and Program shows Free 27.18 of 44.01MB.
As I understand it, "Storage" is refering to the Flash non-volatile memory, and "Program" is referring to RAM, correct?
So this means that of the 128MB of flash memory, ~80MB is hidden, including the customization .cab. Of the 64MB of flash memory, more than half is taken up by OS, radio and other things.
Do I have that right?
Now, one more thing. If I drag a 5MB file onto the device, the storage in use increases 5MB but Program isn't affected. This makes perfect sense.
Syncing, however is a different story. A small test sync of email, contacts, and calendar uses 2.68 Storage memory but 3.7MB of Program memory.
I take it from this that when you sync, it writes the pim info to the flash memory but then also automatically expands it into system memory. Do I understand that correctly?
If I am correct, is there any registry hack or anything that can change this behavior? Would it really slow things down so much if your PIM info had to be taken out of Storage memory? Or am I missing something?
Thanks for any responses.
Gene

I hope no one minds that I bump this, it's been several days.
I'm fairly sure my basic understanding of the situation is correct: contacts etc are loaded into persistent memory (ROM) then loaded into system RAM as well -- I speculate to speed searches and such because RAM is so much faster than Flash memory.
However this has a drawback in that whereas a 64MB RAM-only ppc 2003 device was able to handle >5,000 contacts with ease, on the Wizard it takes almost all of the RAM.
I know it's possible to reduce the amount of RAM (and ROM for that matter) being used by other applications but I'm wondering if anyone has explored or figured out a way to keep the PIM info in ROM (registry hack, perhaps) until it's actually needed, and what the repercussions if any were, ie did it make using the pim info unbearably slow?

I have a question here. Why doesn't HTC put more flash ROM storage (maybe 1GB of flash ROM) into its mobile phone? Then we don't need external SD memory card.

I have a question here. Why doesn't HTC put more flash ROM storage (maybe 1GB of flash ROM) into its mobile phone? Then we don't need external SD memory card.

I'm sure they'll be increasing that in upcoming models. Only reason not to, typically, is to keep cost down a bit - and let the user add as much storage memory as they want; this is under the assumption that anything put on the storage card will work just fine, which is not the case with many applications :|

8525 storage space + flashing question

hi all, kind of related couple of questions here - hope these aren't covered elsewhere, did a brief search but couldn't find anything
i have somehow managed to use up 50 mb of my main memory!
i am thinking of flashing up to the next wm6 black, i have v4 shadow currently.
if/when i do, which programs can be installed on the storage card? i used to have the treo 650 and certain programs would be quirky if not on the main memory. anyone have a list of programs that run well from storage? or can it be assumed that all of them can?
i imagine thats probably the best way to keep some storage space open. any other suggestions?