Hello All
I've just found this line in Eugenia's ROM thread:
"*- CPU scales to a maximum of 1GHz instead of 712MHz"
Is it true that the CPU is limited to 712MHz in the shipping ROMs?
If Yes this may explain the lower performance compared to ACER F1 and Toshiba TG01
I was wondering this too
This could do with some deeper investigation by the experts amongst us...
If this is true, I can imagine the HD2 FLYING when we have custom ROMs!
Mine is pretty damn fast with ROM 1.48!
it's certainly a very bold claim, without any support to it..
I would like to see what hard evidence there is to support it,
as if it's true, then HTC have been illegally advertising the HD2 as 1ghz capable device..
fards said:
it's certainly a very bold claim, without any support to it..
I would like to see what hard evidence there is to support it,
as if it's true, then HTC have been illegally advertising the HD2 as 1ghz capable device..
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Click to collapse
Suppose it is so, they did deliver a 1Ghz device, it's just limited for some reasons. First to my mind is battery life. Nevertheless, investigation is required and I hope kholk can clear some things for us since the seed was found in his thread.
fards said:
it's certainly a very bold claim, without any support to it..
I would like to see what hard evidence there is to support it,
as if it's true, then HTC have been illegally advertising the HD2 as 1ghz capable device..
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Click to collapse
My point exectly!
The only evidence we have for now is the line I quoted from Eugenia's soon to be released WM 6.5.3 ROM
But I've been thinking for a long time that the lower performance of the HD2 compared to other Snapdragon devices is due to some form of power management lowering the CPU frequence!
fards said:
it's certainly a very bold claim, without any support to it..
I would like to see what hard evidence there is to support it,
as if it's true, then HTC have been illegally advertising the HD2 as 1ghz capable device..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"HD2 as 1ghz capable"', does not mean it is running at 1GHZ but it could run at that speed, altough implied, but indeed it would be a misleading advert campaign
but i would like some proof too
tnyynt said:
Suppose it is so, they did deliver a 1Ghz device, it's just limited for some reasons. First to my mind is battery life. Nevertheless, investigation is required and I hope kholk can clear some things for us since the seed was found in his thread.
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Click to collapse
The way its advertised means it would have to actually run at 1GHz, not just be a 1GHz model limited to less.
Unless its just a rubbish claim then i assume the ROM developer means limited to 712Mhz in certain situations, which might be for perfectly good reasons.
rovex said:
The way its advertised means it would have to actually run at 1GHz, not just be a 1GHz model limited to less.
Unless its just a rubbish claim then i assume the ROM developer means limited to 712Mhz in certain situations, which might be for perfectly good reasons.
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I don't agree: a software underclocked 1GHz CPU is still a 1GHz CPU. The chip is the same.
Not when the phone claims its a 1GHz CPU, which it does. The speed is not the name, its a physical attribute of the CPU that only exists if its actually running at that speed. This has been covered by EU law before, HTC cannot legally sell a phone running a CPU capable of 1GHz and claim its 1GHz if it never reaches that speed.
I suspect this ROM will just force full throttle all the time, which can only be bad for the battery life, but since we cannot flash it yet we dont know the effects, or if it even works at all.
HTC is advertising the HD2 machine as "1GHz capable device", but not as "1GHz device" that it's different.
It's barely legal.
Anyway, there IS evidence. And you can see it using TCPMP and doing some tests using the device's CPU
On this purpose, we've been talked on the xda-devs IRC channel about that, and I'm saying what I'm saying ONLY based on my tests: try to run TCPMP and see the CPU freq that it's reporting: 396-412MHz!
Use a program that is HEAVY on CPU load and run it in background (make sure that it won't close and that it will continue its work even in background) then see che CPU freq in TCPMP: you'll reach a maximum of 712MHz.
Another evidence of this statement is the performance of other SnapDragon machines like the Toshiba TG01.
P.S.: I think that the HTC HD2 will reach its 1024MHz frequency only when playing with the GLES2.0 Qualcomm test game, ELECTOPIA.
Electopia takes the device in EXCLUSIVE MODE, so it's possible that its frequency will be raised to 1GHz.
Its also quite possible that the CPU speed reporting programs do not support the snapdragon properly and report the wrong information.
The phone itself says the CPU speed is 1GHz in the phone hardware properties, this is a claim of speed, not name or theoretical capabilities.
So we're talking about dynamic freq adjustment on the go depending on processing power needed, similar to AMD's Cool and Quiet concept?
tnyynt said:
Suppose it is so, they did deliver a 1Ghz device, it's just limited for some reasons. First to my mind is battery life. Nevertheless, investigation is required and I hope kholk can clear some things for us since the seed was found in his thread.
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Click to collapse
doesn't work like that does it though? they advertise the device running at 1ghz and it doesn't then that's false advertising..
If (and I doubt looking at the benchmarks) it ran at 700 ish mhz (maximum) then they should have advertised it as such
they don't mention "1ghz capable" here.. They clearly state its CPU processor Speed (not theoritical or otherwise) as
CPU Processing Speed
1GHz Snapdragon™ processor
http://www.htc.com/uk/product/hd2/specification.html
and Overview
HTC HD2 delivers an experience your senses have been waiting for. The unprecedented 4.3-inch pixel-packed display is stunning. The world’s first capacitive touch technology on a Windows® phone along with 1 GHz processing power ensure a smooth and lightning-fast response to the lightest touch of your finger
It's like stating it has a 4.3 inch screen and then actually finding it was 3.3 inches because the edge was covered in protective cover..
http://www.htc.com/uk/product/hd2/overview.html
not saying this is true at all.. we all know cpus have been scaling for a while, and the HD2 certainly scores high enough in integer testing..
but if that's what it is then they are likely to be in trouble over this.
anyway Kolhk you claim to have it able to scale up, how have you done that?
this way we can try to replicate it
rovex said:
Its also quite possible that the CPU speed reporting programs do not support the snapdragon properly and report the wrong information.
The phone itself says the CPU speed is 1GHz in the phone hardware properties, this is a claim of speed, not name or theoretical capabilities.
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Click to collapse
If it reports the frequencies of other snapdragon devices correctly it shouldn't be an issue. And to they can't advertise the device as having a 1Ghz processor unless it runs at that speed(would it be ok for amd and intel to sell 4Ghz chips if they actually run at 2+Ghz, just because that would be their theoretical maximum?). The processor is probably, as mentioned earlier, just scaling back when it isn't used to 100%.
fards said:
they don't mention "1ghz capable" here.. They clearly state its CPU processor Speed (not theoritical or otherwise) as
CPU Processing Speed
1GHz Snapdragon™ processor
http://www.htc.com/uk/product/hd2/specification.html
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Click to collapse
...and I bet if there's a text on the chip inside the device, it states the same on it. As far as I see things, HTC has a device with a 1G Snapdragon CPU which I bought. CPU inside, as described.
Toss3 said:
If it reports the frequencies of other snapdragon devices correctly it shouldn't be an issue. And to they can't advertise the device as having a 1Ghz processor unless it runs at that speed(would it be ok for amd and intel to sell 4Ghz chips if they actually run at 2+Ghz, just because that would be their theoretical maximum?). The processor is probably, as mentioned earlier, just scaling back when it isn't used to 100%.
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Actually AMD sells processors like this: AMD Athlon 64 3000+ which actually runs at 1800.
A CPU speed programs needs to support the way the CPU is actually controlled, not just the CPU, so basically the clock generator as well. If The HD2 uses a different method from the F1 or TG-01 then the program wont work.
Related
The Toshiba TG01 has built-in cpu scaling which is nice to ensure maximum speed (Maybe why it beats HD2 in benchmarks?)
Does HD2 have this (I doubt it as its never been mentioned) and if not, could it be ported from TG01?
Thanks!
Bump? Is nobody interest in this?
CPU scaling doesn't ensure "maximum speed"... if there was no CPU scaling the processor would ALWAYS be running at maximum speed. Scaling slows the processor down to save power when it's not being used as heavily.
This kind of support is likely to be at hardware/OS level, so I'm sure it's going to be on the Leo.
Does neuROM not to something like that? Slows down the processor when the display is off etc.
madindehead said:
Does neuROM not to something like that? Slows down the processor when the display is off etc.
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These sort of things tend to be specific to certain OS/CPU combinations. What worked on the old Qualcomm chips probably won't work on the Snapdragon. Maybe it will, but if not it would have to be modified to work with the platform.
Coming from the Rokr E6(that came out in 2006) that has a intel PXA270 Rev7(v51) processor, a part from the built Ati graphic chip in the Qualcomm I am very dissapointed. I know the the processors are different but come on, The E6 was clocked at 312MHZ and could be boosted to 530MHZ and 624MHZ and was a single core processor. Today I got real excited because I found this app called nueCPL-ClockSpeed v1.3 thinking finally I will be able to this push Duel core Processor higher than a measley 528mhz.Sadly, come to find out the app limit to push the processor was only 528mhz. I posted a screen shot to show. Does anybody that knows the ins and outs of the Qualcomm MSM2700, know if it can be pushed higher than 528MHZ and would be so kind enough to list the apps that can do it.
After searching this forum for some type of answer, I came to the conclusion that I'm never buying a phone with a qualcomm processor again.
Viper89 said:
After searching this forum for some type of answer, I came to the conclusion that I'm never buying a phone with a qualcomm processor again.
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lol, you aren't the first person to express disappointment with qualcomm.
It's not a bad processor, but for our smartphones (which the average XDA member probably requires a lot of CPU power) it is a little weak. I think the average Joe with a stock WinMo phone would be fine with it, but I must admit I am underwhelmed.
I want Snapdragon in my next phone.
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a7200a&c=qualcomm_msm7200a
on this site you have mostly all smartphones and their processors. and its said that 528Mhz is the Max recomendable speed so i gues its not possible to set it to more then 528MHz. but if you look at devices with these processor X1 was one of the first that used this processor. and even this year there were good phones that used this 2 year old processor technology (HTC Touch Pro 2, HTC HERO). Shure its no 1 or 1.5 GHz Snapdragon but i think its a fine processor. N97 has weaker processor and alot of folks think N97 is better than X1 (I still dont agree with them).
gbajzelj said:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a7200a&c=qualcomm_msm7200a
on this site you have mostly all smartphones and their processors. and its said that 528Mhz is the Max recomendable speed so i gues its not possible to set it to more then 528MHz. but if you look at devices with these processor X1 was one of the first that used this processor. and even this year there were good phones that used this 2 year old processor technology (HTC Touch Pro 2, HTC HERO). Shure its no 1 or 1.5 GHz Snapdragon but i think its a fine processor. N97 has weaker processor and alot of folks think N97 is better than X1 (I still dont agree with them).
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thank you for the link, it's not a bad processor but it's defiantly to weak to run WM, My phone freezes everyday which is freakin ridicouls I've never had this problem with my old phone which had a far less superior processor, then again my old phone ran linux and I'm using the original rom that came with the phone but still thats no excuse for having to reset my phone every day and even running the latest thigs to improve perfomance like advace config etc.....
Hi guys, i think most of you have heard the rumor about the X1 CPU is underclocked to 400MHz.
Is it true or not? I found something about the battery status app showing only 400MHz, but someone said that 400MHz is the max frequency battery status can show. Then i found something with the Xperia X2 info tool (dont know the name) showing 400MHz, too.
I downloaded nueClockControl, it shows 528MHz.
loco
locomarco said:
Hi guys, i think most of you have heard the rumor about the X1 CPU is underclocked to 400MHz.
Is it true or not? I found something about the battery status app showing only 400MHz, but someone said that 400MHz is the max frequency battery status can show. Then i found something with the Xperia X2 info tool (dont know the name) showing 400MHz, too.
I downloaded nueClockControl, it shows 528MHz.
loco
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Click to collapse
The frequency IS 528MHz. Try the JBenchmark estimator if you don't believe nueClockControl:
http://www.jbenchmark.com/jbacepr.jsp Mine shows 515MHz estimated.
Some MSM chips can be overclocked. I have had my TP run at 800Mhz before.
Check THIS out.
Pretty sure it won't work with the X1 but who knows.
dwizzy130
Unfortunalety it's not working with X1 (stock german ROM). The phone freezes instantly when i confirm the Clock change to 768 MHz.
I was a little disappointed of the X1, when i tried to run Super Mario or Mario Kart on SNES Emu (not to mention Metal Slug 2 @ FinalBurn, it's even worse). I thought this would be working better with more than 500Mhz and 256mb RAM. I hate to play games without sound.
I wish it would be as good as a PSP at 222 MHz. Ok, PSP has only 480x272, but also it has only 32mb RAM and only 2mb RAM for GPU.
Vipe'
I feel your pain. Add me to those who are disappointed with the Qualcomm 7200 and will not buy another WinMo phone without a 1 GHz processor. Otherwise, here are some confirmations and other observations:
- The current X1 processor DOES run at 528 MHz as others have mentioned above
- It CAN be overclocked to 768 (or so) with neuOverclock and it's like a sweet dream, but...
- neuOverclock is highly unstable. Most of the time it simply freezes the phone, requiring a reset. For some reason I could only usually get it to work about once a day, no matter how many variations I tried (eg in airplane mode etc etc).
- Unfortunately the genius (seriously) who developed nueOverclock has gone completely silent on his web site and is not still developing - huge bummer in my opinion. I would make a big donation to anyone who could provide a solid overclocking program, and I bet I'm not the only one.
dwizzy130 said:
Some MSM chips can be overclocked. I have had my TP run at 800Mhz before.
Check THIS out.
Pretty sure it won't work with the X1 but who knows.
dwizzy130
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ring-bearer said:
Vipe'
I feel your pain. Add me to those who are disappointed with the Qualcomm 7200 and will not buy another WinMo phone without a 1 GHz processor. Otherwise, here are some confirmations and other observations:
- The current X1 processor DOES run at 528 MHz as others have mentioned above
- It CAN be overclocked to 768 (or so) with neuOverclock and it's like a sweet dream, but...
- neuOverclock is highly unstable. Most of the time it simply freezes the phone, requiring a reset. For some reason I could only usually get it to work about once a day, no matter how many variations I tried (eg in airplane mode etc etc).
- Unfortunately the genius (seriously) who developed nueOverclock has gone completely silent on his web site and is not still developing - huge bummer in my opinion. I would make a big donation to anyone who could provide a solid overclocking program, and I bet I'm not the only one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank you two for the info, I defiantly going to try nueOverclock out.I was actually looking for something in the 600-650mhz but 800mhz is impressive. Edit: well like expected it hung the phone instantly, O well maybe I can get ahold of the developer and incourge him to continue this project
Viper89 said:
thank you two for the info, I defiantly going to try nueOverclock out.I was actually looking for something in the 600-650mhz but 800mhz is impressive. Edit: well like expected it hung the phone instantly, O well maybe I can get ahold of the developer and incourge him to continue this project
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go for it! Tell him I got $20 in my pocket I'm ready to part with!
If someone could really develop a stable overclocking tool, i would pay for that too.
I'd like to buy a HD2, but without a contract(subscription) it costs over 650€ here in Germany.
Even with subscription it costs 220€ + 35€/Month for 2 years.
I can only dream of 1GHz Snapdragon and 4.3 inch screen
PS: I bought my Xperia for 280€ (with 8GB Micro SD) from Ebay in September.
The previous owner paid 720€ (without subscription) at release ...
PPS: Iphone 3GS 32GB is about 850€ without subscription, thats kind of weird
Damn.. I was rlle excited to see some people as frustrated as me with quads performance and were looking for ways to improve it but the fact nueOverclock just freezes is a letdown also. I hope someone can find the creator or another usefull method!! let the search begin!
I just read this article about Gingerbread and the 1Ghz 512mb requirements. This article says that because the nexus one is clocked at 998mhz and since the rumored HTC vision the first dual core phone with 2 cores at 800mhz, (with a max stated by Qualcomm of 1.2ghz per core) won't qualify for Gingerbread.
How stupid can they possibly be? I really hate it when stupid people write tech articles.
http://www.mobilemag.com/2010/06/30...uire-1ghz-processors-coming-mid-october-2010/
Yeah, N1 will surely get 3.0. 998MHz is less than 3% off from 1024MHz so I wouldn't worry about it.
Also, I'm failing to see how 2 cores is a good idea on a smartphone, unless it has some amazing battery, or I'm wrong about CPU power consumption. Dual cores have been popular on desktops for years now, and few apps actually use more than one core at a time. Android is designed to use as little CPU for background tasks as possible so I can only imagine multi-cores would only help with Flash and maybe video recording. 2 cores at 800Mhz seems like it would be slower than 1 core at 1Ghz for most tasks, and less efficient. I'll probably be proven wrong, but we'll see.
First, the RUMOR is just that. A rumor. It's probably fake.
Second, 1ghz, if anything, is probably a suggestion to mfgrs that Google doesn't recommend you run it on anything less than something that's 1ghz.
It's a rumor that's probably false and someone wrote an article assuming that stars had to mathematically align for things to happen.
That's what I call a TROLL ARTICLE. Just trying to drudge up some hits. Most iphone articles are the same thing. People eat them up, but they contain no real news or useful information.
Gr8gorilla said:
How stupid can they possibly be? I really hate it when stupid people write tech articles.
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Yeah me too! but it makes my day easier by giving oe something to hate
Its a good thing a GOOGLE EMPLOYEE just yesterday said the Gingerbread requirement rumors were complete b.s. and made up for the sake of writing an article.
gizmodo.com/5578055/android-gingerbread-rumors-dismissed-by-google-on-twitter
Well the specs on the leaked vision have it using the new dual core qualcomm processors. Qualcomm specs on the processor have it using less power with the 45n process in manufacturing. I am just guessing here but the processor has the ability to be clocked to 1.2ghz but I guess it is clocked down to 800 per core for the battery life.
But anyway it is all speculation until some pics or some test devices get out.
I mean if they were planning on releasing a dual core phone running Gingerbread in less than 4 months, why would the carriers or manufacturer's want you to know? Then you would wait to buy a phone. The way it works now is, you get the best thing going, say an evo or the new samsung phone. Then 3 months from now, a phone drops that blows everything else out of the water, you have got to have the latest and greatest so you drop another 500-600 on that just a few months later. They make a lot more money that way.
Don't you guys follow Romain Guy on twitter? http://twitter.com/romainguy
I love it when people just make stuff up and report it as news. http://goo.gl/cwbf
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He already said yesterday that the rumors are fake. Why do you still think this is true?
There's no minimum specs for Gingerbread and i'm 100% sure that N1 will get it.
Even if it doesn't, wouldn't you be tempted to get a dual code device in late fall?
I'll most probably get a device like that with 3.0 on it.
DDM123 said:
Yeah, N1 will surely get 3.0. 998MHz is less than 3% off from 1024MHz so I wouldn't worry about it.
Also, I'm failing to see how 2 cores is a good idea on a smartphone, unless it has some amazing battery, or I'm wrong about CPU power consumption. Dual cores have been popular on desktops for years now, and few apps actually use more than one core at a time. Android is designed to use as little CPU for background tasks as possible so I can only imagine multi-cores would only help with Flash and maybe video recording. 2 cores at 800Mhz seems like it would be slower than 1 core at 1Ghz for most tasks, and less efficient. I'll probably be proven wrong, but we'll see.
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While I agree that dual core on a phone is probably overkill, there are quite a few reasons..
Dual core can be more power efficient, sharing hardware while having overall higher capacity.
Faster processors = Hotter, more power requirements, etc
Multiple cores isn't just for single-app speed, it's for multiple apps running simultaneously without affecting each other. Of course if you need an app to do heavy processing it should multithread and use multiple cores, but I doubt you'll be rendering in Blender on your phone.... But with dual core, you can have two apps using 100% of a CPU without noticing any slowdown. Or... 1 app using 100% CPU and the other CPU free to do other stuff, letting the system stay responsive.
AOSP doesn't have hardware requirements.
Market has hardware requirements.
Even if fake or not, this thread is stupid cause the thread starter thinks the nexus is not a 1 ghz phone cause its only 998. Umm have you never seen Google's official spec page, they quote it at 1 ghz. Geez.
RogerPodacter said:
Even if fake or not, this thread is stupid cause the thread starter thinks the nexus is not a 1 ghz phone cause its only 998. Umm have you never seen Google's official spec page, they quote it at 1 ghz. Geez.
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Troll, where in his post does he say that?
These rumors were already denounced.
http://phandroid.com/2010/07/02/dan-morrill-calls-foul-on-whoever-started-that-gingerbread-rumor/
How people could believe them from the beginning is just bonkers to me.
DDM123 said:
Yeah, N1 will surely get 3.0. 998MHz is less than 3% off from 1024MHz so I wouldn't worry about it.
Also, I'm failing to see how 2 cores is a good idea on a smartphone, unless it has some amazing battery, or I'm wrong about CPU power consumption. Dual cores have been popular on desktops for years now, and few apps actually use more than one core at a time. Android is designed to use as little CPU for background tasks as possible so I can only imagine multi-cores would only help with Flash and maybe video recording. 2 cores at 800Mhz seems like it would be slower than 1 core at 1Ghz for most tasks, and less efficient. I'll probably be proven wrong, but we'll see.
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1 GHZ is 1000 Mhz not 1024, this is not Byte or flash memory... so 998Mhz is basically 1GHZ like you said, just even closer
And the whole thing is a scam as the previous poster said...
McFroger3 said:
Troll, where in his post does he say that?
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oops i read it as HE was saying that, but he meant the article said that (which i didnt read as you can tell). my bad people
and BTW, stop calling everyone a troll at the drop of a hat. so i mis-read something. doesnt mean troll. troll this, troll that. my post history speaks pretty clearly that i've not once posted such things.
lorin.bute said:
Don't you guys follow Romain Guy on twitter? http://twitter.com/romainguy
He already said yesterday that the rumors are fake. Why do you still think this is true?
There's no minimum specs for Gingerbread and i'm 100% sure that N1 will get it.
Even if it doesn't, wouldn't you be tempted to get a dual code device in late fall?
I'll most probably get a device like that with 3.0 on it.
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Yes will get dual core. Point of my post is not the validity of the requirements but the statements about what phones would get the updates if the requirements were true. Anyway, with romain guys post its moot!
First the G2, now the Lexicon:
http://phandroid.com/2010/09/20/htc-lexikon-looks-to-be-next-verizon-droid/
Sure the clock speed is lower, but reports are saying that the processor is actually faster. And the battery usage will probably be a lot better too.
I'm a sucker for performance and have always said I'd stick with the N1 until the next CPUs come out. Finally... Has the next era in mobile CPU's finally begun?
Next era, no. 1.5+single cores, then dual core.
Paul22000 said:
First the G2, now the Lexicon:
http://phandroid.com/2010/09/20/htc-lexikon-looks-to-be-next-verizon-droid/
Sure the clock speed is lower, but reports are saying that the processor is actually faster. And the battery usage will probably be a lot better too.
I'm a sucker for performance and have always said I'd stick with the N1 until the next CPUs come out. Finally... Has the next era in mobile CPU's finally begun?
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Click to collapse
It's faster 'cause the gpu is a logically separate device. I expect linpacks to be somewhat slower, but quadrants to be faster. How's it going?
"Next era"? No. 7x30 isn't a direct successor to 8x50, having the same CPU but different GPU and some other internal differences (for example, LPDDR2 support appears on Github). Just read Qualcomm's own product description:
http://www.qualcomm.com/products_services/chipsets/snapdragon.html
It's called "second generation" because of HSPA+, much better GPU, 45nm process, additional video codecs support, newer GPS, and some other bits and pieces. It's an overall better device. But if you count only the CPU area - it loses to Nexus. Same CPU, clocked lower. 8x55 is equal in CPU power.
If you're looking for the real next generation in power - look for 3rd generation devices, with dual core CPUs.
Jack_R1 said:
"Next era"? No. 7x30 isn't a direct successor to 8x50, having the same CPU but different GPU and some other internal differences (for example, LPDDR2 support appears on Github). Just read Qualcomm's own product description:
http://www.qualcomm.com/products_services/chipsets/snapdragon.html
It's called "second generation" because of HSPA+, much better GPU, 45nm process, additional video codecs support, newer GPS, and some other bits and pieces. It's an overall better device. But if you count only the CPU area - it loses to Nexus. Same CPU, clocked lower. 8x55 is equal in CPU power.
If you're looking for the real next generation in power - look for 3rd generation devices, with dual core CPUs.
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Click to collapse
+1. I concur 100% with what he said.
keep in mind that pure clock speed does not mean something is faster... the 45nm die shrink also means they increased efficiency in a lot of areas and have allowed for more cache on the die...
think of it this way, i built a dual core PC back in 2006 that ran at 2.8ghz but it was like 90nm tech... if i buy a new dual core today, with a 45nm tech but same speed it would blow the old proc out of the water...
I really doubt dual core procs in phones will make a huge leap like everyone is expecting... I mean, how often do you run 4-5 apps simultaneously that are all very stressful on the CPU? the two most stressful things you prolly do on your phone is watch a movie (encoding video is stressful) or play a video game like on your PSX emulator... do you ever watch a movie and play a game at the same time? Stupid question right... the basic everyday performances are not going to see any huge improvements like everyone expects...
if they want to improve phones they should stick to single core and have a dedicated gpu or go dual and prioritize one of the cores to graphical processing...
oh i forgot to mention the only way you will see strong software performance improvements from dual core is if Google rewrites virtually the entire code for Android to make use of multiple cores... so while your phone might be dual core, your OS wont care since it virtually cannot use it correctly... better pray the manufacturer updates the OS for you cuz the N1 is single core and guess whos getting all the updates for the next year or so?
Pure clock speed on exactly the same CPU is directly correlated with CPU speed. Yes, there are some things that impact benchmarks like memory bandwidth etc, but we're not talking about them - and even if we did, the difference still wouldn't cover. 65nm vs 45nm means NOTHING - it doesn't matter, what process the CPU was built on, it matters how it functions. We're talking about EXACTLY THE SAME CPU, can you keep that in mind, please? Thanks. CPU cache almost doesn't matter, since L1 is limited anyway, and L2 is big enough anyway, the increases add a bare couple of percents to CPU speed, which is nothing compared to 20% speed loss due to clocking.
Thanks for your smart suggestions on "improving phones". I guess you might be one of the VPs at Qualcomm. Or maybe you aren't. I'll skip your even smarter comments about "dedicated GPU" etc. I guess you probably need to google the word "SoC" first and see what it means.
And you should probably educate yourself about multi-threaded applications, and also remember that Linux kernel (which is running on Android) is built to support multiple cores, and Dalvik VM (which is running the apps) might very well be multi-threaded too.
Adding a second core with load balancing OS results in ~35-40% performance increase (depends on some things). And ironically, when you compare "your old 90nm core" and "newer 45nm cores", saying that the newer cores clocked similarly "would blow the old out of the water", you're actually comparing multi-core vs single-core CPUs (with some internal speed-ups, too, but the most significant performance boost comes from additional cores).
Jack_R1 said:
65nm vs 45nm means NOTHING
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't the 45nm process at least have better efficiency due to smaller gates?
Bell points the finger at chipset makers - "The way it's implemented right now, Android does not make as effective use of multiple cores as it could, and I think - frankly - some of this work could be done by the vendors who create the SoCs, but they just haven't bothered to do it. Right now the lack of software effort by some of the folks who have done their hardware implementation is a bigger disadvantage than anything else."
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What do you think about this guys?
He knows his stuff.
Sent from my GT-I9300
i would take it with a pinch of salt, though there are not many apps that takes advantage of multi core processor lets see what intel will tell when they have thier own dual core processor out in the market
Pretty good valid arguments for the most part.
I mostly agree though, but I think android makes good use of up to 2 cores. Anything more than that it doesn't at all.
There is a huge chunk of the article missing too.
Sent from my GT-I9300
full article
jaytana said:
What do you think about this guys?
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I think they should all be covered in honey and then thrown into a pit full of bears and Honey bees. And the bears should have like knives ductaped to their feet and the bees stingers should be dipped in chilli sauce.
Reckless187 said:
I think they should all be covered in honey and then thrown into a pit full of bears and Honey bees. And the bears should have like knives ductaped to their feet and the bees stingers should be dipped in chilli sauce.
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wow, saying Android isn't ready for multip-core deserves such treatment? or this guy had committed more serious crime previously?
Actually is a totally fail but in android 5 I think it's can be solved
Sent from my GT-I9300 using XDA
This was a serious problem on desktop Windows OS as well back when multi cores first starting coming out. I remember having to download patches for certain games and in other cases, having to set the CPU affinity to run certain games/apps with only one core so that it wouldn't freeze up. I am sure Android will move forward with multi-core support in the future.
simollie said:
wow, saying Android isn't ready for multip-core deserves such treatment? or this guy had committed more serious crime previously?
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Its a harsh but fair punishment imo. They need to sort that sh*t out as its totally unacceptable or they're gonna get a taste of the Cat o Nine Tails.
Android kernel is based on Linux. So this is suggesting the Linux kernel is not built to support multi-core either. Not true. There is a reason the SGS3 gets 5000+ in Quadrant, the the San Diego only gets 3000+. And the San Diego is running 200MHz faster.
Just look at the blue bar here. http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/31/orange-san-diego-benchmarks/ . My SGS3 got over 2.5K on just CPU alone.
What Intel said was true. Android is multicore aware but the os and apps aren't taking advantage of it. When this user disabled 2 cores on the HTC one x it made no difference at all in anything other than benchmarks.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=26094852&postcount=3
Disabling the CPU cores will do nothing to the GPU, hence still getting 60 FPS. And you say that like you expected to see a difference. Those games may not be particularly CPU intensive, thats why they continue to run fine. They will more than likely be GPU limited.
Android is not a difficult OS to run, thats why it can run on the G1, or AOKP can run smooth as silk on my i9000. If it can run smooth as silk on one 2yr old 1GHz chip, how COULD it go faster on a next-gen chip like in the SGS3 or HOX? In terms of just using the phone, ive not experienced any lag at all.
If youre buying a phone with dual/quad CPU cores, and only expecting to use it as a phone (i.e, not play demanding games/benchmark/mod/what ever else), of course you wont see any advantage, and you may feel cheated. And if you disable those extra cores, and still only use it as a phone, of course you wont notice any difference.
If a pocket calculator appears to calculate 1+1 instantly, and a HOX also calculates 1+1 instantly, Is the pocket calculator awesome, is the HOX not using all its cores, or is what it is being asked to do simply not taxing enough to use all the CPU power the HOX has got?
I've been hearing this for some time now and is one of the reasons I didn't care that we weren't getting the quad core version of the GS3
916x10 said:
I've been hearing this for some time now and is one of the reasons I didn't care that we weren't getting the quad core version of the GS3
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Okay folks... firstly linux kernel, which android is based on, is aware of multicore (its obvious) but most the applications are not aware, thats true!.. but is not the android which to blame neither the SoC makers. This is like the flame intel made that they wanted to say their single core can do faster to a dual core arm LOL, (maybe intel will make 1 core has 4 threads or 8 threads) <- imposibruuu for now dunno later
you will notice the core usage while playing HD video that require cpu to decode (better core decode fastly)... and im not sure single core intel does better to arm dual core.. ~haha~
but for average user the differences are not noticable.. if intel aiming for this market yes that make sense... but android user are above average user.. they will optimize its phone eventually IMO
What they have failed to disclose is which SoC they did their test on and their methodology. Not much reason to doubt what he's saying but you gotta remember that Intel only have a single core mobile SoC currently and are aiming to get a foothold in the mobile device ecosystem so part of this could be throwing salt on competing products as it's something that should be taken care of by Google optimising the CPU scheduling algorithms of their OS.
The problem is in the chip set. I currently attend SUNY Oswego and a professor of mine Doug Lea works on many concurrent structures. He is currently working on the ARM spec sheet that is used to make chips. The bench marks that he has done shows that no matter how lucky or unlucky you get, the time that it takes to do a concurrent process is about the same where on desktop chips there is a huge difference between best case and worse case. The blame falls on the people that make the chips for now. They need to change how it handles concurrent operations and then if android still cant use multi-core processors then it falls on the shoulders of google.
that is my two cents on the whole situation. Just finished concurrency with Doug and after many talks this is my current opinion.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA
Flynny75 said:
Disabling the CPU cores will do nothing to the GPU, hence still getting 60 FPS. And you say that like you expected to see a difference. Those games may not be particularly CPU intensive, thats why they continue to run fine. They will more than likely be GPU limited.
Android is not a difficult OS to run, thats why it can run on the G1, or AOKP can run smooth as silk on my i9000. If it can run smooth as silk on one 2yr old 1GHz chip, how COULD it go faster on a next-gen chip like in the SGS3 or HOX? In terms of just using the phone, ive not experienced any lag at all.
If youre buying a phone with dual/quad CPU cores, and only expecting to use it as a phone (i.e, not play demanding games/benchmark/mod/what ever else), of course you wont see any advantage, and you may feel cheated. And if you disable those extra cores, and still only use it as a phone, of course you wont notice any difference.
If a pocket calculator appears to calculate 1+1 instantly, and a HOX also calculates 1+1 instantly, Is the pocket calculator awesome, is the HOX not using all its cores, or is what it is being asked to do simply not taxing enough to use all the CPU power the HOX has got?
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That doesn't mean daily task doesn't need the cpu power. When I put my sgs 3 in power save mode which cut back the cpu to 800mHz, I feel the lag instantly when scrolling around and navigating the internet. So I can conclude that performance per core is still much more important than number of cores. There isn't any performance difference either with the dual core sensation xe running beside the single core sensational xl.
The hardware needs to be out for developers to have incentive to make use of it. It's not like Android was built from the ground up to utilize 4 cores. That said, once it hits enough hand it and software running in it will be made to utilize the new hardware.