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Hi All,
I currently have an O2 online contract which I have had for about 16months now. After seeing that the XDAIIs are £150 cheaper in O2 stores than online I decided to change my contract to an O2 store type and cancel the online contract and port my existing number accross from online to the new one.
After calling round lots of O2 stores to be told that they have none left in stock, I found a shop with 1 left so hurried along to buy. The girl in the shop though told me that they can port number across from other networks, but not between the online and shop flavours of O2 because they are the same company. Funny that when I go into a shop with a problem on my online contract they tell me that they are different companies and can't do anything !! grr. Needless to say, I didn't buy the XDAII.
Does anyone know if this is truely the case because I do need to keep my existing number and also don't really fancy paying £349 from the online store when they are selling £150 cheaper just down the road. !
Thanks for any info.
Rgds,
Rob.
Hi
That's absolutely pants that is. That is exactly what I did. I had an online contract and bought an XDA2 from the retail side & kept my online number! They can do it, you just need to push them. Once you do they are actually quite helpful.
Have fun! Be assertive!
Thanks for the reply Pete. I didn't think that it was impossible to do.
I'll be back there tomorrow wearing my angry face
I'll let you know how I get on.
Thanks,
Rob.
I had a similar problem, they said that I couldn't port an O2 number to O2 (this is in effect an upgrade) only from other networks. I pushed them and they said it could be done - I signed a new contract, got a temporary number (which was no use to me as I didn't want to give my many contacts a temporary number) so I put my old SIM in the XDAII until they ported the number - it took them over a month to finally port the number, but they did give me 4 months free line rental as compensation.
Well done m8. Just show what can be done when you push! I also ended up with several months free line rental. They ended up moving the new contract to my old sim card. A 'Migration' they call it!
Don't give up just keep pushin.
Good luck!
You need to get your PAC code from online o2 and then take it to the shop.
The XDA2 is going to be £299 in shops from the 1st of March
Has it gone up! Was £199 in o2 stores. Hope not as I haven't been able to get one anywhere, have emailed o2 ceo as i'm so pissed off.
Unless thats £299 offline..... I wish
They were only 199 for febuary back to 299 now onwards.
Sorry people.
Staff got theres for 150 sim free.
8)
Can a new user, onto his second post, dare correct you all (but do so on the basis that he had exactly this, and it lead to a full investigation from the then OFTEL)?
Sorry to say it folks, but whilst SOME Service Providers, or even individual staff themselves, will let you 'port' from one Service Provider on the same network to another SP on the same network, there is ABSOLUTELY NO LEGAL OBLIGATION FOR THEM TO DO THIS.
I know this from huge problems I had with Singlepoint as SP for O2, Porting into them a number from O2 (then BT Mobile SP).
So I took my case to OFTEL.
And guess waht - the reason for this is clear.
Legislation provides for Porting numbers, and places a legal obligation on Networks and SP's to do exactly this.
BUT...
Going from one service provider to a different one, but within the same network, is not covered. Becuase it ISN'T a PORT - it is a MIGRATION.
Only if the networks are different, does a PORT ensue.
And ONLY a Port is bound by Oftel (at the time - now OFCOM) regulations.
So many of you MIGHT manage this (in the end Singlepoint did for me, after all the hoo-ha).
But there is absolutely no compulsion for them to do this, and nothing you can do in law to force them, if they refuse.
Please don't think I am making this up - a simple call to OFCOM will answer your query.
BUT, bear in mind this was a while back, and the case investigator from OFTEL told me at that time that plans were afoot to change this in future to cover migrations too. So it might be worth that call to OFCOM...
Hope this helps folks.
Are you saying you had a problem with singlepoint giving you the PAC code?
They should give it to you no matter where you say the number is going?
Richard
u05rdh said:
Are you saying you had a problem with singlepoint giving you the PAC code?
They should give it to you no matter where you say the number is going?
Richard
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I'm gonna sound rude here, but no thats completely what i am not saying, as my post should indicate.
I was going FROM O2 (with O2/BT Cellnet/Mobile as the Service Provider) TO Singlepoint (O2).
And what Singlepoint would not do, is ACCEPT my PAC code.
Hence why I went to OFTEL.
Only to find that Singlepoint were well within their rights not to accept the PAC code, and transfer IN my number, as it wasn't a PORT at all (PAC = Port Authorisation Code - hint!)
Becuase only if there is a change of networks, does it amount to a PORT. If it is inter network, but different services providers, it is a MIGRATION, which has no legal obligation (or at least didn't at that time).
So what my post was clearly warning, is that UNLESS THERE IS A CHANGE OF NETWORK, it is not a PORT< but instead, a migration.
And for migrations, Service Providers have no compulsion or legal obligation to let you bring your number over - it is entirely at their own discretion.
Only a PORT (which as I said, needs a change of network), has legal obligation to it on the part of a Servie Provider.
I hope that clarifies. :wink:
I spoke to a guy from O2 (the customer care line I think) and when I queried him about being about to migrate numbers from O2 Online to O2 Shop, he was saying I couldn't, but also sounding uncertain. As if he wanted to tell me something but couldn't. In the end he said that O2 are not obliged to migrate the number across because of the administration charge that they incur. As he was sounding strange, I said 'Are you trying to tell me that I should be able to get my number migrated across if I keep on at them, but you are not allowed to tell me that' To which he replied 'Yes'
Rgds,
Rob.
Rob_B said:
I spoke to a guy from O2 (the customer care line I think) and when I queried him about being about to migrate numbers from O2 Online to O2 Shop, he was saying I couldn't, but also sounding uncertain. As if he wanted to tell me something but couldn't. In the end he said that O2 are not obliged to migrate the number across because of the administration charge that they incur. As he was sounding strange, I said 'Are you trying to tell me that I should be able to get my number migrated across if I keep on at them, but you are not allowed to tell me that' To which he replied 'Yes'
Rgds,
Rob.
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Click to collapse
In my experience (after the case I had with OFTEL), the ONLY people willing to allow a number transfer on a migration rather than a port, is O2 Online and O2 (O2 Proper, with themselves as the serive provider - not a third party like Singlepoint).
Which fits with what you have said. BUT like you mention - its at their discretion - so sound nce, and keep plugging if they first say no.
Singlepoint will NOT allow you to bring in your existing number, from another provider, if the network remains the same - i.e they will not allow number transfers with a migration - but instead ONLY with a PORT, which they are legally obliged to anyhow.
And maybe I should clarify the Network's logic for this...
If you go from one network, TO another, then the network you have left LOSES a customer/number/statistic/figure, when it comes to reporting year end customer numbers.
On the other hand, the network you are going to, gains a new customer/number/statistic, to include in their year end report of number base/connects.
Thus the new network is happy to do this, and subsidise handsets etc etc.
On the other hand, if all you are changing is Service Providers, then the NETWORK gains absolutely nothing - as they lose one customer to in effect gain another.
Thus absolutely no incentive or financial reason for them to promote this.
And I took the liberty to check, and alas, there has still been no change with OFCOM in terms of the law - ONLY a number PORT (which means a complete change of NETWORK), is legally enforceable in terms of them accepting a number port.
A MIGRATION (chenge of Service Provider, but remaining on the same Network), still has no legal obligation.
Hope this helps.
Like said before in this thread, the louder you shout, the more you get heard, and the more you push, the more succesfull you will be. Nice people don't get anything, just high bills
lummac said:
Like said before in this thread, the louder you shout, the more you get heard, and the more you push, the more succesfull you will be. Nice people don't get anything, just high bills
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IF YOU SAY SO! :wink:
Was that loud enough for you :lol:
hello everyone
this is my first post, and i will admit straight away that i work for one of the big "independent retailers" so have no problem/loyalty with any network..........
i know from previous posts that i may be teaching some of you to suck eggs....that is not my intention!
in the 80's under the then uk government the first 2 networks where ordered to split there "networks" into service providers{billing companies)
that was O2 and VODA by the monopolies commision....several years later the next networks where allowed to sell there own airtime(orange and tmob) .....hence if you are with o2 or voda you could have a contract with up to anyone of 100+ service providers any of which will charge a different amount to upgrade to an xdaII..... you will always have the oppurtunity to upgrade(stay with your service provider,,,if you are a large monthly spend ....negotiate!) but you will also (and use this!) have the oppurtunity to switch within your network (MIGRATION- ie you stay with O2 but are billed by a new company..but are recognised as a new consumer....ie better deal) or switch to a new network....ie voda,orange ..(who are shortly to offer the xda........) who will bend over backwards to get you!!!!!!
either way your best tool is to ask for a PAC code (porting authorisation code) wether migrating or porting.......as this lets the network/service provider you are with know you are not only serious about leaving them....but serious about joining another network/service provider and they will negotaite...if not switch network!!!! normally same handset but better offer!
probably no use and wrong forum
but hey i am new to this!
@ onedaz...
Er, thanks for the heads up, but ain't you read this post at all mate?
The bit about history was both true and helpful.
But "...get a PAC code and do a migrate" ?
Haven't you read my posts at all? You CAN'T do a number port on a MIGRATION inter-network. You can only do a PORT if it is cross network.
(And by 'CAN'T' what I mean, as explained in my post, is compel, by law, a Service Provider, to accept your number - some DO so this by choice, but most do not. Those that do not CANNOT be compelled to accept a PAC code, for a MIGRATION, as this has no legal power behind it through OFCOM. Only a true PORT carries legal weight.).
But thanks for the rest of the info though.
Just to quickly throw flames on the fire and run.....
I am currently with Orange and will be moving over to O2 when my contract expires and I get the new XDA II on a business contract.
Point I want to raise is that ORANGE told me that to get best deal and offer on an upgrade (take out the fact that I want the XDA II) is to MOVE TO ANOTHER OPERATOR - so the above is totally true that migration is at discretion of company, porting (i.e. leaving network) is legal right.
Hi, I want to put a picture together of how many people bought what unit and why. I think this will help see if O2 have hurt their sales by delaying etc.
Im restricting it to the 2 airtime providers who currently sell it as I think this is most relevant (no Orange yet or voda).
I bought the Imate Jasjar. It is the only version available in the US. I have T-Mobile -US which does not support the universal/jasjar. I'm sure there are others who are in the US and don't have either of the companies you listed.
Sorry, this is mainly a UK Poll.
Is it worth collecting general statistics on global sales and reasons?
I know this seems like doing the phone companies work for them but if these stats prove there is a huge demand for the device in the US, and the carriers are missing out, maybe they will sell it?
My original idea was to see how badly O2 UK have hurt their sales by messing people around recently.
No option for me.
I bought a JASJAR with a Voda contract in the UK.
Yeah, I wanted to keep it simple, If i included all the possible options it would be huge.
Do people want a large questionair?
I could put to gether a list of sensible questions that would gather great stats, but do people want to spend the time filling it all in?
i prefer the Black colour, that's so cool~~~~
I want something silver and pink. Pink. Pink. Pink.
Hence t-mobile MDA Pro.
Colour matters! Pink~
I have gone for the O2 XDA Exec on Business 250 plus Data36 (will use WiFi for data most of the time) from Mobileshop.
I am moving to 02 from Orange after many years for the following reasons:
1, Orange are messing with devices more and more like my P910i and the Nokia 6680 (no active standby, realplayer hidden).
2, O2 make it easy to remove their custom O2 Active stuff.
3, Orange very rarely do any firmware updates.
4, O2 appear to be very comitted to the XDA range and do release updates.
5, 12 month contract, not the 18 months T-Mobile want.
6, O2 have better 3G coverage than T-Mobile.
7, And the Exec is Black.
Is that it guys? no more votes?
O2 because Tmobile doesn't have reception where I live. No option available on vote though.
Hi guys
Went to 02 shop today in Chester to see if any news: The staff hadnt even heard of the X1.
Went round the corner to Vodafone expecting the same thing but imagine my suprise when I was told it was in stock. Within 30 minutes I had purchased my new X1!
Yet to have a proper play but smaller and lighter than I imagined.
Andrew
Locked or unlocked?
5th of November...
Thats when most dutch shops should have the Xperia. Atleast my local Belcompany store will have it..
Branded or not?
From the pics posted on other forums, it's branded, but not that big a deal.
http://www.nullpacket.co.uk/X1_1.JPG
http://www.nullpacket.co.uk/X1_2.JPG
miky7 said:
Branded or not?
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Zaim2 said:
From the pics posted on other forums, it's branded, but not that big a deal.
http://www.nullpacket.co.uk/X1_1.JPG
http://www.nullpacket.co.uk/X1_2.JPG
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Thanks for the photos, but apart from the appearence the big question is if they have messed up with the rom.
Now we see where the dealy has come from! Making all the crap boxes and literature to acompany the naf Vodafone logos phone with its bloated Vodafone crappy ROM.
When will service providers learn its not what the end user wants?!?!?!
ajbartley said:
Hi guys
Went to 02 shop today in Chester to see if any news: The staff hadnt even heard of the X1.
Went round the corner to Vodafone expecting the same thing but imagine my suprise when I was told it was in stock. Within 30 minutes I had purchased my new X1!
Yet to have a proper play but smaller and lighter than I imagined.
Andrew
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Click to collapse
weird, I went into the vf store in chester yesterday and they only had the dummy phone in, that was about 11.30, they didn't know when they were having a delivery but guessed it would be tuesday,they must have had a delivery after I left, you jammy git .
vinokirk said:
Now we see where the dealy has come from! Making all the crap boxes and literature to acompany the naf Vodafone logos phone with its bloated Vodafone crappy ROM.
When will service providers learn its not what the end user wants?!?!?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The two pictures of the Vodafone X1 above were taken by me yesterday. I really don't think they've messed with it much at all branding-wise. The Vodafone logo is black and doesn't stick out like the red one would have, an unbranded X1 just has "X1" written in that space, so it's not a huge change.
They've pre-loaded a few 'applications' which are mainly links to open Vodafone Live and their data-powered GPS site. Apart from that and a few bookmarks in Opera/PIE, I don't see too much to complain about, it still has the HTC apps like the streaming media player, sim manager, A-GPS data downloader, etc.
The Google panel is called the Vodafone panel, but the only real change I think is the inclusion of a few link to the Vodafone Live site and Mobile TV (streaming 3G video from Vodafone).
Difficult choice, Vodafone definitely in stock, but their 12 month contracts are rubbish:
http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/mobile-phones/pay-monthly/sony-ericsson/X1/
But T-Mobile just said they will definitely get it, but have no date yet.
Went to Vodafone and had a look at the dummy model, its tiny! I was expecting it to be bigger The keys are not too easy to type on. I had a look at a silver dummy and I really liked it, they had no stock of black or silver just the silver dummy.
They also dont sell it sim free but that dont matter as they had none in stock anyway!
I'm in a quandry as my local Vf shop is offering just the phone for £350-400! They have some on delivery tomorrow and I'm wondering wether to reserve one. My problem is that
I'm 9 months into an 18 month contract (T-mobile Flext) and so I cannot use a locked phone. Does anyone know whether the Vodafone Xperia's are locked or not?
Cazbuh said:
Does anyone know whether the Vodafone Xperia's are locked or not?
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Pretty sure Vodafone stopped locking all phones 12 months ago. Anyway my Vodafone X1 has just accepted my Orange Wednesday SIM so you should be in luck
They have them in stock in carphonewarehouse as well both on o2 and orange. This was in the brent cross shopping centre one that is though. Not too small and not too big just the right size got mine coming soon too. Although the salesman was pretty stupid saying not to buy it and was trying to sell me the blackberry claiming the sony ericsson x1 was full of bugs?!?!? i set him straight though!
The mystery deepens!
I spoke to vodafone customer services who said the phone was probably locked and only available on a contract (despite the shop having offered it for £350-400 on its own).
I don't want a contract with O2 or Vodafone so I'm going to try one last visit to the shop tomorrow morning and if that is unsuccessful then I'll get it through play (£499.99 & free delivery), SuperGPS or Handtec (next day delivery!).
Cazbuh said:
I spoke to vodafone customer services who said the phone was probably locked
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Wrong, as I've said up above none of their new phones are locked, and MY Vodafone X1 is running fine with my Orange SIM
and only available on a contract (despite the shop having offered it for £350-400 on its own).
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Possibly hit and miss with each shop and their targets etc however even if they did sell it SIM free it's likely to be more (about £500).
My carphonewarehouse said its not out for a couple of weeks yet :O the ejits...
I only asked the vodafone shop if they did it sim free, I didnt ask them specificly if they sold just the phone on its own(but stil with crappy vodafone branding).
I would be willing to have a vodafone branded unlocked handset for £350 rather than an unbranded unlocked handset from clove play etc for £500.
This is an avenue i hadnt even thought of!
foaf said:
Difficult choice, Vodafone definitely in stock, but their 12 month contracts are rubbish:
http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/mobile-phones/pay-monthly/sony-ericsson/X1/
But T-Mobile just said they will definitely get it, but have no date yet.
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Has anyone tried bargaining with Vodafone on the phone or in store? Someone in the Touch Pro forum managed to get a free Touch Pro on a 12 month contract at £42.50 per month. Not sure if it was a business or consumer contract.
Trouble for me now though is that as this phone has taken so long to come out I'm now torn between the X1 and the Touch HD. Why couldn't SE get it shipped like the iphone, as you have to hand it to Apple for being able to get the phone in the shops six weeks after launch.
jamiemag said:
Has anyone tried bargaining with Vodafone on the phone or in store? Someone in the Touch Pro forum managed to get a free Touch Pro on a 12 month contract at £42.50 per month. Not sure if it was a business or consumer contract.
Trouble for me now though is that as this phone has taken so long to come out I'm now torn between the X1 and the Touch HD. Why couldn't SE get it shipped like the iphone, as you have to hand it to Apple for being able to get the phone in the shops six weeks after launch.
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yes I got a deal with vodafone retail. I asked them if they could match onliine vodastore on a 12 month contract and they said yes. I originally wanted the 45 per month deal with 900 mins and 500 texts and handset 100. He could only find 750 mins 250 texts which I said I didn't want. we finished off on 600 mins and 500 texts for 40 a month and 100 for the phone, which is a saving of 50 compared to online and got the phone there and then.
has anyone found any better deals than the ones on the vodafone website ? if i remember, the operator's deals are usually amongst the worst around ?
i'm looking for a 12 month contract but the vodafone site only allows unlimited internet and all the other goodies on 18 month contracts. grrrrrrrrrrrr.
rather tha adding this to page 14+ of the existing thread I thought it was worth bringing it to frustrated Vodafone users.
Like most I was caught by VF pulling this device, so I tried the other networks, O2 no stock, Tmobile no stock, both unsure when. Tried 6 london O2 shops - no stock.
Rang HTC Europe and spoke to the VF account manager.
HTC line is :After discussions, VF are to contine supplying this phone. It may take until early next week for them to filter this fact down to all sales staff and shops but we should be seeing supplies comming in within the next week,
HTC sales manager asked me to phone if I still keep getting the 'we no longer supply' message from VF after monday next (21/12)
WATCH THIS SPACE
22/12/2009
I phoned VF upgrades up to see what the current VF line is.
Was informed that whilst retail customers will not be supplied the person thought that VF business customers will still be supplied!!!
Passed this on to HTC Europe VF account manager, who stated that this was incorrect and would follow this up with VF and get back to me.
Awaiting a call
Interesting... will definately be watching the Vodafone forums for this.
That could be interesting as there are reports that Vodafone maybe pulling it altogether from sale in favor of iPhone. Here is a original source
Not even on the business web site now was on there yesterday
http://www.vodafonebusinessshop.co.uk/PhonesViewAll.html
i still maintain, this is a poor move from VF
I was with vodafone, ordered the HD2 back in November when originally released on vodafone's website, kept on getting fobbed off with out of stock. Ordered with tmobile on the 1st, took delivery on the 12th. Not alot of stock is getting supplied to shops because they are selling out from the web sales.
Vodafone were a complete bunch of sh*ts. I was told "yes we have in stock right now", I pay for the upgrade and then "oh not in stock". A week later, "Yes in stock", "no not in stock", "General recall", "not selling anymore" ,"yes we are"
The way new customers and existing customers have been treated is disgusting. Have a look at there own forum!
I have to say that I'm proberly one of the few people who got the HD2 from Vodafone when it was launched. Then a fault developed with the screen, however I also got the run around from VF for about a month, with the same story. Finally today (16th December) my local store managed to get me replacement handset, they pulled alot of strings as I'm lead to believe, they also have been told that the phone is being discontinued. But no reason has been given. Also that if this phone goes bad within 28 days then no replacement though they will offer alternatives to the HD2, like what?!
I'm really annoyed by this. After being told by stores last week that retail shops would not sell them anymore, then getting teh email from the eForum mods to tell me that HD2s were no longer available I left Vodafone to join T-Mobile. It cost me two months line rental (£70) to end my contract and get my PAC.
Only today, one of my colleagues at work has had a phonecall from a Vodafone store to tell her that they just got 9 HD2s in!!
If Vodafone are going to re-supply then I've missed out on the free upgrade that I was offered and it's cost me £70. If this is the case I can safely that I'll never rerturn to them, regardless of the handset of deal they offer.
Have you still got the email that says it's no longer available? If so, you could always draft a nice whinge letter to Voda, enclose a print out of the email and ask them to refund the £70 as a "goodwill gesture"
They were telling me the 23rd of december this morning, upgraded and waiting now, did post but someone seems to have deleted that thread. lets hope for next week.
Well bought mine from mobiles.co.uk last week, arrived Tuesday - great device and even better it comes unlocked as well.
Its arrived time for a play
THinking of getting the DHD on my network Orange when i'm due for an upgrade in October and i was wondering if it will actually be available? Does anyone know what the flagship network will be?
Please don't say o2 lol, i hate those buggers.
As far as I know, Vodafone is going to be the "flagship". HTC seemed to be bigging them up a lot at the launch event.
Orange and T-Mobile are getting the phone too, but they didn't get a mention.
O2 so far aren't even getting the phone at all!
3rd party online stores are offering the HD on T-Mobile, Orange, O2 and Vodafone...always best to get from a 3rd party as to not get a crap branded handset!!
EddyOS said:
3rd party online stores are offering the HD on T-Mobile, Orange, O2 and Vodafone...always best to get from a 3rd party as to not get a crap branded handset!!
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Yep, that's what I did with my TP2 and is what I'm doing with my HD
I have it ordered from a 3rd party on Vodafone. I wonder because it will be the first shipment will it have all the Vodafone crap on it or touch wood it will be sim free ??
Depends where you get it from and whether you're first shipment or not.
When I ordered my TP2 from mobilephonesdirect I was first shipment and Voda didn't even have theirs yet - so I got an unbranded one.
I don't know if somewhere down the line Voda got their stock and MPD started selling from Voda stock rather than sim-free stock...
I expect at this stage all stock that doesn't come direct from an operator will be unbranded and sim-free.
I ordered it from here immediately once they started taking orders so i should be in the first shipment - http://www.mobiles.co.uk/htc-desire-hd.html
Here's hoping its sim free then m8
I've just sent Orange an email asking about a release date. I'll post back when I hear something.
I never use a 3rd Party. Insurance is 6.00 a month on Orange. They replace the phone the next day usually no questions asked.
If you buy 3rd party you cannot insure your phone direct. You end up paying about 10.00 a month then if you want to claim they try everything to get out of helping you.
In my experience always buy direct. I know the branding is a pain. Custom Roms get rid of the bloatware. A small badge you can put up with.
If you buy a 3rd party phone the main operator will always tell you to contact who you bought your phone from if there's a fault.
That's where you will start having problems.
Sent from my HTC Hero
I phoned Vodafone about my TP2 when I got it asking if I can have insurance put on through Vodafone rather than via the reseller and they said "Yep no problem" and put it on for me! Not had to use it, but just saying...
That's good maybe it's just Orange. I got a phone from Phones 4 you years ago and Orange wouldn't touch me on insurance. I just like to deal direct because I get really good loyalty discounts.
Sent from my HTC Hero
I know what you mean. When I upgraded from my K800i to my TyTNII Orange were really really great at giving me a good deal.
I actually used to work for Orange about 4 years ago, and I still have a warm place in my heart.
I'm defecting to T-Mobile this time so I can take advantage of Everything Everywhere, makes me feel like I'm getting closer to Orange again.
Orange Care was by and large one of the best aspects of their service. I used it on my old SPV M2000 which I crushed on the day I got it by tripping over a rope fence. Problem I had was that they had none to replace it with so I got stuck with an SEP910i - which was no replacement for the M2000. There was a big scandal about it and the media got involved and in the end I got a brand new M2000.
I would have stuck with Orange for my TP2, but it was going to take a couple of months for it to be available on Orange whereas I could get it on Vodafone instantly, and I was so fed up with my TyTN II that I begrudgingly jumped ship. Not that Vodafone have caused me any problems. Orange just had a bit more of a personal touch. Vodafone is very corporate and don't seem as 'fun' as Orange are.
My work Treo Pro is on Vodafone anyway, so it's no loss
Wow, I ended up talking a lot there.
Orange are not ideal as they tend to mess with the handset too much for my liking. I did mention this in another thread but orange don't seem to have any information on DHD, one of the sell reps even suggested they might not even get it at all!!
mobilphonesdirect.com are quite good they have confirmed handset will be sim free and are offering the cheapest deals. Ordered mine today expected to get it on he 7th October, wait and see.
I'm pretty sure orange will get it since they're merged with T-Mobile. I read that they'll be rebranding around 2012 too. I can't imagine orange not getting it, it would be a mistake on their part in my opinion.