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You just have to read this article! According to 'beatweek' (no, I've never heard of it either) the Android OS is doomed to failure! Wow! Thanks for clearing that up beatweek! I'll just go trade in my Nexus One now and get an iPhone 4! Thanks for the tip!
http://www.beatweek.com/news/6810-verizon-needs-verizon-iphone-more-than-apple-after-droid-debacle/
Edit: Yes, I should've just quoted the article and not had you guys go to their website! So, here it is -
"Verizon needs Verizon iPhone more than Apple, after Droid debacle
July 25, 2010
Three years of talking about a Verizon iPhone, and still nothing to show for it. What we have instead are two facts that are sharply at odds with each other: Verizon customers want a Verizon iPhone, if their continual cries of the past three years are to be believed. And Apple is selling such an overwhelming number of iPhones to the point of extended delays and backorders, even with the limitation of continued AT&T exclusivity, that there wouldn’t be enough iPhone 4 inventory to hypothetically share with Verizon customers anyway. Apple can likely get out of its exclusive AT&T deal any time it wants just to by writing a large enough check, but that still offers no clue as to just when it might finally happen. But if you heard a loud thud off in the distance this week, it was the hopes and aspirations of the competing Android platform, in which Verizon has invested heavily with its Droid and Droid X, coming crashing down into what will apparently soon be a mere pile of rubble. As reported by CNN this week, a Yankee Group study reveals that an astounding four out of five current Android users have no plans to buy another Android phone. And that’s game over.
While Google’s own Android-based Nexus One phone has been canceled due to lack of interest, Verizon’s Android-based Droid has been selling quite well (though not nearly as well the platform’s most overenthusiastic users would like you to believe). But it doesn’t matter how many units you’re selling or how many new customers you’re acquiring if eighty percent of them are so dissatisfied with the platform that they’re already plotting their escape. It’s too soon to predict how many of the Android escapees will end up landing on the iPhone, but what is clear is that most Verizon customers who bought a Droid did so because they wanted an iPhone but weren’t willing to switch to AT&T, and so they settled for the closest thing to an iPhone they could get their hands on. Apparently not close enough, however, as the Android has now been revealed to be the fastest-sinking technology platform since, well maybe, ever.
But if the situation is so obviously dire that external temperature takers can now figure out that most Android users are looking to bail out of the platform when they buy their next phone, then it’s a safe bet that Verizon has already known this for at least a little while. So even as the carrier is dumping inordinate amounts of money in launching its new Droid X phone (and selling plenty of them, to be fair), Verizon likely has its left eye focused on endings the longstanding impasse with Apple and getting its hands on the iPhone to ensure that all these dissatisfied Android users don’t also leave Verizon when they leave the Android platform. In other words, Verizon now needs a Verizon iPhone more than Apple needs a Verizon iPhone. After all, that same CNN report shows that four out of five iPhone users plan to remain with the iPhone, the exact opposite scenario being faced by makers of Android-based phones. The question then becomes what kind of concessions Verizon is willing to make in order to get its hands on the iPhone sooner rather than later. After all, unlike Apple, whose cellular presence lives and dies with the iPhone itself, Verizon’s primary priority is in ensuring that its current customers remain with the carrier; which particular phone they end up buying is secondary to the fact that they simply stay with Verizon.
Not only do we now know that the Android platform is a sinking ship, we also know that Verizon knows it, and perhaps most importantly, Apple now knows that Verizon knows it. The timetable for a Verizon iPhone is still anybody’s guess, but with most current Droid users presumably ending up with an iPhone when it’s all said and done, look for Verizon to try to make a Verizon iPhone happen as soon as possible – and with Apple’s known penchant for driving a hard bargain with potential partners, expect Verizon to be in a much weaker bargaining position than the Droid’s cheerleaders might expect. Here’s more on the Verizon iPhone."
Oh look, CNN Money's ****ty article with no details about the statistics strikes again. Why are journalists so dumb not to think for themselves.
Formerly known as iProng. Yeah definitely rabid fanboi site.
sliverofme said:
You just have to read this article! According to 'beatweek' (no, I've never heard of it either) the Android OS is doomed to failure! Wow! Thanks for clearing that up beatweek! I'll just go trade in my Nexus One now and get an iPhone 4! Thanks for the tip!
http://www.beatweek.com/news/6810-verizon-needs-verizon-iphone-more-than-apple-after-droid-debacle/
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Quote the article instead of just linking - that way you don't drive traffic hits to their site.
MaximReapage said:
Quote the article instead of just linking - that way you don't drive traffic hits to their site.
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Agreed. Quote dont link.
Here you guys go, BEWARE: THIS ARTICLE IS GUARANTEED TO ANGER YOU MORE THEN ANY OF THE RECENT ARTICLES. They use that recent "bogus" statistic to prove that android is a flop basically. Also, this is from an iPhone fan site, so im not sure why we are even reading it, its no more important then an android article is to an iphone user base.
Verizon needs Verizon iPhone more than Apple, after Droid debacle
July 25, 2010
Three years of talking about a Verizon iPhone, and still nothing to show for it. What we have instead are two facts that are sharply at odds with each other: Verizon customers want a Verizon iPhone, if their continual cries of the past three years are to be believed. And Apple is selling such an overwhelming number of iPhones to the point of extended delays and backorders, even with the limitation of continued AT&T exclusivity, that there wouldn’t be enough iPhone 4 inventory to hypothetically share with Verizon customers anyway. Apple can likely get out of its exclusive AT&T deal any time it wants just to by writing a large enough check, but that still offers no clue as to just when it might finally happen. But if you heard a loud thud off in the distance this week, it was the hopes and aspirations of the competing Android platform, in which Verizon has invested heavily with its Droid and Droid X, coming crashing down into what will apparently soon be a mere pile of rubble. As reported by CNN this week, a Yankee Group study reveals that an astounding four out of five current Android users have no plans to buy another Android phone. And that’s game over.
While Google’s own Android-based Nexus One phone has been canceled due to lack of interest, Verizon’s Android-based Droid has been selling quite well (though not nearly as well the platform’s most overenthusiastic users would like you to believe). But it doesn’t matter how many units you’re selling or how many new customers you’re acquiring if eighty percent of them are so dissatisfied with the platform that they’re already plotting their escape. It’s too soon to predict how many of the Android escapees will end up landing on the iPhone, but what is clear is that most Verizon customers who bought a Droid did so because they wanted an iPhone but weren’t willing to switch to AT&T, and so they settled for the closest thing to an iPhone they could get their hands on. Apparently not close enough, however, as the Android has now been revealed to be the fastest-sinking technology platform since, well maybe, ever.
But if the situation is so obviously dire that external temperature takers can now figure out that most Android users are looking to bail out of the platform when they buy their next phone, then it’s a safe bet that Verizon has already known this for at least a little while. So even as the carrier is dumping inordinate amounts of money in launching its new Droid X phone (and selling plenty of them, to be fair), Verizon likely has its left eye focused on endings the longstanding impasse with Apple and getting its hands on the iPhone to ensure that all these dissatisfied Android users don’t also leave Verizon when they leave the Android platform. In other words, Verizon now needs a Verizon iPhone more than Apple needs a Verizon iPhone. After all, that same CNN report shows that four out of five iPhone users plan to remain with the iPhone, the exact opposite scenario being faced by makers of Android-based phones. The question then becomes what kind of concessions Verizon is willing to make in order to get its hands on the iPhone sooner rather than later. After all, unlike Apple, whose cellular presence lives and dies with the iPhone itself, Verizon’s primary priority is in ensuring that its current customers remain with the carrier; which particular phone they end up buying is secondary to the fact that they simply stay with Verizon.
Not only do we now know that the Android platform is a sinking ship, we also know that Verizon knows it, and perhaps most importantly, Apple now knows that Verizon knows it. The timetable for a Verizon iPhone is still anybody’s guess, but with most current Droid users presumably ending up with an iPhone when it’s all said and done, look for Verizon to try to make a Verizon iPhone happen as soon as possible – and with Apple’s known penchant for driving a hard bargain with potential partners, expect Verizon to be in a much weaker bargaining position than the Droid’s cheerleaders might expect. Here’s more on the Verizon iPhone.
I didn't read a single post of this thread. . .
And I can safely say from the title "hahahahahahahahah"
Eat my Android Apple, you've been hosed. Welcome to the new revolution in cellular technology.
Anything involving fruit can be discarded, Android is top of the line and constantly improving free of cost
Thank you to everyone that contributes, I love my Androids and would never consider owning an Iphony
lol, the whole site is an iProduct circle jerk worship session.
See, this is how the internet works.
Bozo #1 basically trolls or skews some information, blogs it
Random people find it and quote it
Other bloggers find it and quote it
It gets spread in random directions, most not attributed to the original Bozo #1
Bozo #1 finds blogs/tweets/etc "validating" his information and probably blogs such
Other random people quote that his results are lining up with other's opinions..
It's a circle of hell.
"While Google’s own Android-based Nexus One phone has been canceled due to lack of interest"
That totally discredits the author completely.
sliverofme said:
You just have to read this article! According to 'beatweek' (no, I've never heard of it either) the Android OS is doomed to failure! Wow! Thanks for clearing that up beatweek! I'll just go trade in my Nexus One now and get an iPhone 4! Thanks for the tip!
http://www.beatweek.com/news/6810-verizon-needs-verizon-iphone-more-than-apple-after-droid-debacle/
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No need to get upset =)
Personally, I find it quite funny.
Let them yell, Android is moving ahead in gigantic steps, and nothing can stop its business model. No-licence, 100%-customizable, manufacturer-indifferent, platform-independant, open-source software will always win. It's the law of the universe. You can't stop progress.
Think about it. It's Steve Jobs (as a sole manufacturer and distributor of iOS) VERSUS an entire WORLD of hardware manufacturers and software engineers. You can't win. Apple cannot possible have enough ideas or innovation to beat the whole planet.
So.. sit back, laugh and watch it unravel. It'll be a good story with a good moral for your kids.
It's pretty humorous how they extrapolated all that insight from a misquote.
Seems to me that this guy is just unhappy that he can't get an iphone on verizon.
Interesting he says that because this says something completely different:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-23/verizon-earnings-beat-estimates-on-demand-for-smartphones-running-android.html
"Thanks to the omnipresent green robot, Verizon reported a stronger second quarter earnings report than expected by analysts. The carrier added 665,000 net new contract customers in the period, topping AT&T's net addition of 496,000 contract signing customers despite the latter's launch of the iPhone 4 on June 24th. "
From both phonearena and bloomberg.
player911 said:
"While Google’s own Android-based Nexus One phone has been canceled due to lack of interest"
That totally discredits the author completely.
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exactly. its funny we have a quote from a verizon preson saying they did not cancel the nexus one, that they wanted it, but that it was google that cancelled it on them.
Just another false propaganda article that's not worth crap.
erikikaz said:
Interesting he says that because this says something completely different:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-23/verizon-earnings-beat-estimates-on-demand-for-smartphones-running-android.html
"Thanks to the omnipresent green robot, Verizon reported a stronger second quarter earnings report than expected by analysts. The carrier added 665,000 net new contract customers in the period, topping AT&T's net addition of 496,000 contract signing customers despite the latter's launch of the iPhone 4 on June 24th. "
From both phonearena and bloomberg.
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this is probably why that hater wrote the article
this site is defly a apple fanboy site. just look at his twitter! (if youre curious: http://twitter.com/beatweek) apple advertisements all over!!
"beatweek ....formerly iprong"...... wtf
guys, let this issue die, I think its embarrassing enough that they dont even read the statistics they are reading. Here is the real statistics.
http://www.businessinsider.com/that-story-saying-that-only-20-of-android-owners-say-theyll-buy-another-one-its-not-true-2010-7#ixzz0v12muYgx"
The Nexus ONe rides again - It's still a Star Here's the article
A flop with consumers, sold-out Nexus One scores with developers.
Google tried — and ultimately failed — to turn the U.S. wireless market upside-down by selling its supercharged Nexus One Android phone online, with minimal help from the big carriers. But now, months after shuttering its online storefront for the phone, the Nexus One is a sudden, improbable hit.
Who’s buying the Nexus One, you ask? Android developers, that’s who — and apparently, they’re so eager to get their mitts on the eight-month-old handset that Google supply of Nexus One phones for developers is completely sold out.
So says a post on Google’s Android developers blog (via TechCrunch), with Google’s Tim Bray writing that Google "blew through the (substantial) initial inventory in almost no time," adding that Nexus One manufacturer HTC is busy trying to crank out more of the suddenly gotta-have handsets.
Google launched the Nexus One — described in hushed tones as the "Google Phone" in the days and weeks before its official unveiling — way back in January, and the search behemoth caused quite a stir by offering the Android 2.1-powered handset only on the Web, through Google’s own Nexus One online storefront.
Why all the fuss? Because usually it’s the big carriers (think AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, and Verizon Wireless) who do the heavy lifting in terms of marketing and selling cell phones, both online and (mainly) in brick-and-mortar stores. While it got a little help from T-Mobile, which subsidized the Nexus One for use on its network, Google’s decision to go it virtually alone with the Nexus One — with practically no marketing help from a carrier—was seen as a potentially game-changing move.
Unfortunately, it turned out to be anything but. Sales of the Nexus One never took off, and an unprepared Google — which, before the Nexus One launch, had little need for a bank of customer-service reps — found itself quickly overwhelmed by customers complaining about iffy 3G reception (which ultimately led to a patch) and other assorted glitches.
Consumers were also underwhelmed by the less-than-revolutionary $179 two-year contract price and $529 price tag for an unlocked Nexus One, while existing T-Mobile users were turned off by the $379 upgrade price for the phone (which was eventually cut by $100). Last May, Google finally waved the white flag, announcing that it would close down its online Nexus One store.
So yes, Google learned the hard way that nothing beats a "full-court press by a big national carrier" (as I wrote back in May) when it comes to selling a smartphone. But here’s the thing: The well-reviewed Nexus One itself wasn’t a bad phone — indeed, it was (and still is) a pretty good one, complete with a 3.7-inch AMOLED screen, a 1GHz "Snapdragon" processor, 512MB of RAM, and a 5-megapixel camera with a flash.
The Nexus One also happened to be among the first handsets to get an update to Android 2.2 — a fact that clearly wasn’t lost on enthusiastic Android developers, who’ve been able to buy the unlocked Nexus One — in droves, apparently — direct from Google for a few weeks now.
In any case, Google is now in the strange but surely satisfying position of "working hard on re-stocking" (as Google’s TIm Bray puts it) a smartphone that looked all but dead just a few months ago. Strange, but true.
Google’s Android developers blog: A Little Too Popular (via TechCrunch)
— Ben Patterson is a technology writer for Yahoo! News.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ytech_gadg/20100820/tc_ytech_gadg/ytech_gadg_tc3447
guess that means that the nexus was more popular then Google thought
Sounds like the making of a Nexus 2 could become possible. Anybody else agree?
"The Nexus One also happened to be among the first handsets to get an update to Android 2.2" - REALLY? It was THE first phone. And it wasn't a "pretty good" phone, it was the best on the market for several months after launch. I think this guy has some facts he needs to get straightened out.
I really think the nexus sold more units over time then people think, and is in demand more than people think. This kinda shows that. Google jumped the gun by closing their online store. Also they mis calculated by not making the nexus into a whole line of Google phones.
The Nexus would have taken off at the time, but Google saw fit to market their well known search engine at superbowls and such instead of a phone that no one heard of.
As much as Google may have fumbled the marketing of the Nexus One when it was sold publicly - all that aside...
The article makes a lot of noise without revealing any numbers which are key to really verifying the conclusion that the phone is becoming more popular as a developer phone.
Yes, Google sold out the developer allotment - that's great. But, they also sold out a few allotments of their public phone back in the day - most notably the last allotment they ordered in July which sold out a week or two earlier than expected. That fact alone doesn't mean anything without knowing how big the allotments were. For all the article states, the allotment for the developers could have been very tiny under the theory that a smaller audience produces less sales and most developers would probably have already ordered one when they were sold publicly anyway.
All we know is that someone was pleasantly surprised by the demand for it from the developer store and that the initial allotment - chosen specifically for that sales purpose - was underestimated.
But, we don't know if that represents higher overall demand (or even relative demand) compared to the public allotments. And we don't know if either demand represented enough market force for the company to have continued to pursue its business plan of being in the open market for handsets.
It also rankles me when they make supporting comments like "now, months after shuttering its online storefront". Sorry, it was less than 1 month since they shut down the storefront when they sold out the developer phones. And don't ignore that allotments were selling out during the consumer sales when you try to make it sound like the developer sell-out was unprecedented. The fact that it was almost 1 month after the shut down the store (not months like the author states) was *due* to a consumer sellout. Otherwise it would have only been a couple of weeks since the store front was scheduled to shut down.
I think the point is that with all these high end android phones out now, the fact that ANYONE is choosing the nexus still tells the story. Specific numbers don't really matter. This is especially true since all these other phones are subsidized on contract, and the nexus is full price, and still selling at all 7 months later.
RogerPodacter said:
I think the point is that with all these high end android phones out now, the fact that ANYONE is choosing the nexus still tells the story. Specific numbers don't really matter. This is especially true since all these other phones are subsidized on contract, and the nexus is full price, and still selling at all 7 months later.
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Hi Roger,
That is a good point, but it isn't the tone of the article. "A flop with consumers" - "the Nexus One is [now] a sudden, improbable hit" - "[developers buying] in droves, apparently".
A flop? Really?
Sudden hit? Really that sudden?
Improbable hit? Really?
It may have had marketing problems, but it was never a flop. The new MS phones being canceled a week after they were released - that's a flop for you. And there is nothing sudden about a sellout a couple of weeks after another sellout. Nor is there anything improbably about that, or anything that spells "hit". And how big is a "drove". Apparently it is so specific that they suddenly realize the complete lack of facts in their piece and have to tack on the word "apparently". So, the phone is now selling to developers in a manner that one can only suppose is describable by a term that is as vague as "droves". Cute.
I'm glad that it is still selling and I'm glad that it sold out its developer allotment, but this article is exaggerating the impact of those facts with hyperbole based on both lack of knowledge (believing that the phone has been off sale for "months", etc.) and assumption of facts not presented.
It would be one thing if they had said what you said "The developer allotment sold out which shows that there is still positive demand for a device that is this old, but without numbers we can't tell if the demand is actually stronger in its developer form than it was as a consumer offering". But no, they basically paint its consumer history as if they couldn't be given away and then, without any numbers, paint the developer demand as being so much stronger than anything anyone could have expected that Google was stupid to have canceled it.
Sorry, no, the sell-out indicates that someone, somewhere, was wrong about a prediction that was specific to developer sales and has no bearing whatsoever about how the demand now compares to the demand as a consumer phone or to any other currently shipping phones.
As far as longevity - the G1 was still being sold as recently as about a month ago. Technology alone doesn't really dictate sales, but it is an important driver.
Now that Google knows there is an appetite for a "super dev phone", might they also reconsider their decision to permanently shelve the UMTS 850/1900 version?
I hate articles like this. The facts are wrong which makes the whole article irrelevant. I think the problem with the Nexus One is that only the geeks here really heard about it. There was no advertising done what-so-ever.
Although I am surprised to see more and more people recognize it as "Is that the Google phone?".
I'm glad I bought mine when I did because they shut down the store. Now I love it even more knowing that every joe-smoe can't go out and pick one up. I like knowing that I have one of the best Android phones and "you" can't buy one anymore.
I think we'll see a huge demand for the N1 when Gingerbread comes out. I think it will take a lot of time and a lot more tweaking to get 3.0 on a 2.x device then it was 2.2 on top of 2.1. I'm just happy that Google is developing it specifically for my phone and I don't have to worry about having a buggy port.
i hope the One really helps HTC, but the delays are doing no favours
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/us-htc-earnings-idUKBRE93706620130408
I don't know what the fuss is all about. They are always posting profits. Less profits yes, but they are always in the black. Many companies go for years posting losses quarter after quarter. HTC has no problems as long as they are in profit each quarter.
Would now be a great time to buy stocks in HTC?
simba2585 said:
i hope the One really helps HTC, but the delays are doing no favours
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/us-htc-earnings-idUKBRE93706620130408
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I hope this thread gets locked, threads likes this really do XDA no favours.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
aydc said:
I don't know what the fuss is all about. They are always posting profits. Less profits yes, but they are always in the black. Many companies go for years posting losses quarter after quarter. HTC has no problems as long as they are in profit each quarter.
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Public companies like HTC serve their shareholders who buy stock in a company because they feel that stock is going to appreciate over time increasing the size of their investment (profit). Companies reward investors by growing sales, profit margins, and generating cash that's used for reinvestment to further their growth and increasing the market capitalization of the company. Doing so makes their stock appreciate which rewards the investors that placed their faith in them. This is HTC’s 2-year stock performance as of today.
In February, HTC revised their Q1 2013 guidance down to a level so low that it spooked analysts to the point there was a run on HTC's stock that triggered stop-sales on the TW exchange it's listed on (twice) because the amount of volume being sold and the stock's price decline triggered electronic safeguards. The revenue guidance HTC provided for Q1 that caused the stock fall was between NT$50 billion and NT$60 billion. Those are numbers provided by HTC less than eight weeks ago. The number they actually posted today was NT$42.8 billion. So not only did they miss the low-end of their own guidance they've demonstrated an inability to forecast their business. The latter's actually more troubling to analysts than the miss in revenue. And keep in mind that revenue is accounted for when devices are shipped to resellers; not when they are purchased by end consumers. So HTC's shipping rate is what caused the miss, not the sales or popularity of the One. And that they didn't know within an eight week span how deep their component issues were causing them to issue erroneous guidance is indeed troubling.
Operating margin (profit) was 1/10 of 1% of revenue for the first three months of 2013. You don't have to be a finance expert to know that's not sustainable. And the One's delay has put it right up against the launch of the SGS4 which will be accompanied by wider distribution and Samsung's gazillion dollar marketing budget. Apple's also launching the iP5S and possibly a lower-priced device in June according to analyst's speculation. Neither of those things is going to be good for HTC's full-year revenue. The analysts expect HTC to benefit from the One's sales in Q2 but that they'll decline again in the remaining quarters of the year. 30 out of 33 analysts have a "sell" rating on HTC's stock.
Their financial position was 25% better than today last August when the Taiwanese government began talks of bailing HTC out rather than letting them fail. HTC cannot continue to exist the way it does today and a single positive quarter based on the success of single device can't reverse their fortunes enough to change that. So it's highly unlikely they'll go out of business but some type of government intervention accompanied by a restructuring or merger or JV with another company are pretty much a given.
With stiff competition from Apple and Samsung, HTC has posted some less than stellar numbers the past few quarters. The company is still profitable, but its decline in sales and revenue have contributed significantly to Taiwan’s five months of decline in exports which saw a drop in July of 11.6% from a year earlier. HTC may be about to receive help from the Taiwanese government as it looks to turn its fortunes around after slipping away in the smartphone market recently. According to the Commercial Times, Taiwan's Central Bank Governor, Perng Fai-nan raised the issue during a meeting with government officials, suggesting it stepped in and offered assistance to the manufacturer. Perng noted that HTC's declining sales had had a knock-on effect with Taiwan's exports, which have also witnessed a decline in recent months. During the meeting, Perng apparently went on to say that the financial status of HTC is "of vital importance to the islands' gross domestic product". The Taiwanese government is taking this issue seriously, with an unnamed official reportedly saying the Ministry of Economic Affairs is already considering various ways to help out HTC.
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/ph...htc-could-receive-government-bail-out-1091781These numbers show the production shortage really is that bad, and my sense is that it won’t get much better in the second quarter because many of those issues continue,” said Dennis Chan, an analyst at Yuanta Securities Co. in Taipei, who recommends selling the stock. “For smartphones, timing is everything and the delay means they lose that timing.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...w-profit-after-latest-smartphone-delayed.htmlProfit is likely to recover in the second quarter as HTC One sales increase, said Daiwa Securities analyst Birdy Lu. The company has been touting the camera's performance in low light, and plans to more than double advertising spending under a new marketing chief. "HTC's whole schedule was thrown into disarray because of the HTC One, which meant it didn't have the revenue coming in but still had a lot of fixed costs," Mr. Lu said. "There will be some improvement this quarter in terms of the bottom line, but they still face a lot of competition."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...38196.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection
htc is dying.
i bet samsung and apple are eager to buy htc for their patents and maybe blueprints
I'm sitting here fully perplexed
some of you call me HTC biggest fanboy
and yet in all honestly i dont care their financial woes
yes if they go away it will be a loss to the smartphone especially since they are the most unique OEM
but really why should I care all I want is the bloody device and 18months of support, the quality of the device and the software is guaranteed so why should I care about their money again?
honestly if anything Samsung's monopoly and money making is not really reflecting in better quality to the product
I prefer a zealous challenged OEM over a relaxed arrogant one
hamdir said:
some of you call me HTC biggest fanboy
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But always in a "good" way. You've helped more people than 90% of those on XDA (including me).
honestly if anything Samsung's monopoly and money making is not really reflecting in better quality to the product
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Being huge doesn't guarantee continued success; at least not at the same historic velocity. Look what Samsung's success has done to Apple's stock. And with more cash in the bank than 2/3 of the world's countries one can't say Apple's not successful. Samsung can't get lazy because if they do there are too many people gunning for them. If Apple does introduce a lower-cost iPhone it's going to kick Samsung in the nuts. And both ZTE and Huawei are gunning for them too. Samsung's only got one target in its sites; Apple. What the other Android device makers do with a collective 30% market share between them doesn't concern them.
If you think about it, there are too many Android manufacturers right now. None on their own is going to catch Samsung because their lead is too wide. If a couple fail or merge leaving Samsung and two strong financially healthy Android competitors it would be much better for competition than having four vendors with fewer than 10% of the market each. The market controls smartphone selling prices. Samsung’s volume makes their component costs significantly lower than their competitors. None of those competitors can continue to offer the same features as Samsung at the same prices and maintain a decent level of profitability on far lower volume. So a “boutique” smartphone maker would end up selling a device with similar functionality at a higher retail price to sustain their profitability. I don’t think that would work that well in such a competitive market. As applies in the jungle, only the strong survive.
cjm1979 said:
I hope this thread gets locked, threads likes this really do XDA no favours.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
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What's wrong with discussion ?
How is xda affected ?
BarryH_GEG said:
So a “boutique” smartphone maker would end up selling a device with similar functionality at a higher retail price to sustain their profitability. I don’t think that would work that well in such a competitive market. As applies in the jungle, only the strong survive.
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i would love HTC to go this way. willing to pay the premium
i think Sony and HTC are a good match but i dont know how that would work
anyway everyone is downsizing HTC than they really are, regardless of the profits/stock situation, its not really as "wallstreet" black or white as you guys think, its a lot more grey, the same can be said to many of the Asian brands as well
there is definitely a remedy being cooked for their problem but its not really what we are expecting
Great learning on this thread ,its great
@Barry,(didn't wanna quote the whole thesis), you're right, the HTC One success alone cannot bail HTC out of its financial trouble, especially with the iPhone and Galaxy S 4 coming out in Q3 and Q2 respectively. Either they're going to have to be bailed out or merge with another company. 2.8 million in profit is an All time low for HTC. The smartphone industry is a tough one, if you even have 1 off year, it will cost you big time. HTC had 2 off years.
I'm pretty optimistic about HTC with all the positive press on the One. I myself have owned every generation iphone and it took the HTC One to break the cycle. I have another friend who has always owned iphones and he just purchased four HTC Ones for his family and friends. This thing is going to be a dark horse. Samsung won't know what hit them.
grukko said:
I'm pretty optimistic about HTC with all the positive press on the One. I myself have owned every generation iphone and it took the HTC One to break the cycle. I have another friend who has always owned iphones and he just purchased four HTC Ones for his family and friends. This thing is going to be a dark horse. Samsung won't know what hit them.
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I'm in the same boat. Just want my Asda order now !!!
BarryH_GEG said:
Public companies like HTC serve their shareholders who buy stock in a company because they feel that stock is going to appreciate over time increasing the size of their investment (profit). Companies reward investors by growing sales, profit margins, and generating cash that's used for reinvestment to further their growth and increasing the market capitalization of the company. Doing so makes their stock appreciate which rewards the investors that placed their faith in them. This is HTC’s 2-year stock performance as of today.
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Then what would you say about Apple who have lost about $300 Billion worth of shareholder money in this time?
Or the fact that Galaxy S4 is being seen as Samsung's iphone5 moment! Apple played safe with iphone5 and historically it has broken sales records. Apple is flush with money, yet financial markets are unimpressed. Apple is no more innovative!
Samsung has done nothing with S4 but ape Apple iphone5 (that is to say play it safe). Interestingly the day S4 was announced by Samsung, Apple stock rose and investors cheered as S4 is NOT seen as much of a big threat to Apple as it could have been!
HTC is not gonna vanish anytime soon. just chillax. my company has been in huge losses for four years straight (we suppy chipsets to mobile makers) and yet are there (while we are much much smaller than even HTC). somebody always bails you out. Or otherwise also, all it takes is one blockbuster product and you are back in the game. Sony got that with XZ (they were in losses earlier). Very few companies are making any money in this business anyway but they are all hanging in there.
I don't know. I'm reconsidering what to buy after this.
joslicx said:
Then what would you say about Apple who have lost about $300 Billion worth of shareholder money in this time?
Or the fact that Galaxy S4 is being seen as Samsung's iphone5 moment! Apple played safe with iphone5 and historically it has broken sales records. Apple is flush with money, yet financial markets are unimpressed. Apple is no more innovative!
Samsung has done nothing with S4 but ape Apple iphone5 (that is to say play it safe). Interestingly the day S4 was announced by Samsung, Apple stock rose and investors cheered as S4 is NOT seen as much of a big threat to Apple as it could have been!
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The difference is that apple and Samsung have big budgets and lots of money, they can afford some type of loss, HTC cannot. You said it yourself, apple played it safe with the iPhone 5 and yet they broke records sales. Do you think apple care about the lack of innovation? No, not as long as they keep selling they don't. For Samsung, the S4 is getting more preorders than the S3 in the UK alone, those are good signs and remember again both companies have lots of money and are coming from big quarters.
It isn't about them though, it's about HTC. They have a great product with the One, everybody in the tech world recognizes it so there is no doubt. The question is is it too late?
At the end of the day it will be Samsung and apple left. Rest will fold and fail. Of course Google will continue to release nexus line which is stock but always mediocre hardware.
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sabre31 said:
At the end of the day it will be Samsung and apple left. Rest will fold and fail. Of course Google will continue to release nexus line which is stock but always mediocre hardware.
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Lets pray that it doesn't happen, it would really make me sick. I love choices and competition.
HTC and Sony should stay alive. Sony will be for sure because they're a strong company. Can't say the same about htc. It'd be a shame if they fail.
http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/7/30/4570490/htc-q3-2013-guidance-first-loss-on-record
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such threads are not needed, we have been seeing them for years now
besides the verge always adds drama on top here is the proper press release
http://www.htc.com/www/about/newsroom/2013/2013-07-30-htc-reports-2013-second-quarter-results/
Taipei, Taiwan – July 30, 2013 – HTC Corporation (the Company, TWSE: 2498), a global leader in mobile innovation and design, today announced consolidated results for the Company and its subsidiaries for the second quarter of 2013.
2Q 2013 Results
HTC posted quarterly revenue of NT$70.7 billion, with gross margin of 23.2 % and operating margin of 1.5%. Net profit and EPS were NT$1.25 billion and NT$1.50, respectively.
“My leadership team continues to focus on execution,” said Peter Chou, CEO of HTC. “We are seeing expected results as we fill the channels and meet demand for the new HTC One. As we broaden our focus to include a new member of the HTC One family, the recently announced One mini, we are looking forward to delivering great products and results in 2H.”
HTC announced key appointments, including Jack Yang to president of South Asia, Sirpa Ikola to senior director of marketing for South Asia, and Lorain Wong to vice president of global PR.
As manufacturing ramped up, the US saw sequential growth in 2Q, as well as expansion in retail channels. EMEA saw renewed strength in major Western European markets and emerging countries.
Progress was observed across Asia. HTC gained market share in Taiwan, showing an improved presence in Hong Kong and warm reception of its products by consumers in Japan. In China, sales of HTC’s high-end models improved, while competition at the mid-tier and affordable intensified. In South Asia, the improvement of key operator relationships provides optimism about the region.
3Q 2013 Outlook
The Company’s outlook for the second quarter of 2013 is as follows:
- 3Q revenue is expected to be in the range of NT$50bn to NT$60bn
- Gross profit margin is expected to be in the range of 18% to 21%
- Operating margin is expected to be in the range of 0% to -8%
The new HTC One has performed well in the market, better than that of our hero products for the same period last year. We aim to extend the momentum as we enter into the second half of 2013. The new HTC One has also helped the company establish strong brand awareness and received numerous accolades as the world’s best smart phone. With the help of HTC One, we have regained superphone market share across major markets including China.
We also have plans underway to launch a range of innovative and competitive mid-tier products in the coming months. We hope to regain momentum and market share in these segments in Q4. This will address our challenge of mid-tier products competiveness
Our overall gross margin has been impacted by the relatively higher cost structure, lack of economy of scale and certain provisions needed to facilitate the clearance of aging products in the channel. Actions have been taken and we expect to see improvement in Q4
We are also optimizing our organization, including the improvement of management efficiency and effectiveness.
People, innovations, and technology are the core assets of HTC. We will continue to invest in innovations and technology, as well as retaining and rewarding our best talents. We look forward to a brighter future for HTC and continue to delight our customers with the best and most exciting products
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you can see clearly that they state, the One is getting them more revenue then last year flagships, but they fall short on the low end side of sales, also they have extra expenses for this quarter causing the predicted loss waste of profit
- 3Q revenue is expected to be in the range of NT$50bn to NT$60bn
- Gross profit margin is expected to be in the range of 18% to 21%
- Operating margin is expected to be in the range of 0% to -8%
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That's a pretty optimistic viewpoint you posted @hamdir. Almost makes it seem like HTC has turned the corner and poised for a rebound (which we all know is far from the truth). Here's Reuters not so optimistic perspective.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/30/us-htc-guidance-idUSBRE96T0B920130730
jlevy73 said:
That's a pretty optimistic viewpoint you posted @hamdir. Almost makes it seem like HTC has turned the corner and poised for a rebound (which we all know is far from the truth). Here's Reuters not so optimistic perspective.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/30/us-htc-guidance-idUSBRE96T0B920130730
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what view? i posted HTC's own press release, they explain pretty clearly that their old inventory and lack of mid / low range competition will cause the predict lack of gross margins, tons of positive in the press release as well such as the HTC One performance and their improvements in Asian markets
meanwhile HTC is hard at work for the next flagship while you guys are busy with their profit or losses
does anyone still follows how much Nokia or Sony are loosing? or when they rebound?
Financial up and downs is normal for any company in my opinion and as far as im concerned it's non of my business, i have an amazing smartphone thanks to them and i don't need to contemplate their finance
here is something interesting from your own link
"Even a hero product can't save them," he said, adding that a partnership with another firm - a possibility CEO Peter Chou has said he would look at - was one of the few strong options open to HTC.
Although HTC is expected to soon launch the HTC One Mini, Samsung and Apple are also likely to announce their own new offerings later this year. A planned marketing blitz, which includes enlisting Robert Downey Jr. for a reported $12 million to star in its ad campaigns, is expected to weigh on profit margins.
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---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:45 PM ----------
more details here
http://focustaiwan.tw/search/201307300029.aspx?q=htc
HTC said its overall gross margin has been impacted by the relatively higher cost structure, lack of economy of scale and certain provisions needed to facilitate the clearance of aging products in the channel.
Peter Chou, chief executive officer of HTC, said the company is taking action to reduce the cost of some key components used in its products, such as displays and mechanical parts, and that the improvements will be apparent in the fourth quarter.
In addition, HTC plans to launch a new range of mid-tier phones in the late third quarter or early fourth quarter to increase its economy of scale and leverage its product portfolio, Chou said.
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"We are bearish on the company in the longer term as it continues to struggle in the premium smartphone segment despite having a good product, while it remains uncompetitive in the low-end segment," Cheng said, who set a price target of NT$145 on the stock.
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Sony and HTC merge and we're gonna have a good time.
I Am Marino said:
Sony and HTC merge and we're gonna have a good time.
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My dream
It's alot of over analyzing but it sure makes me worry. They can't even seem to pump put timely updates at this point... Even to their developer and GE editions. Can't blame the carriers holding up the updates on those...
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hamdir said:
Meanwhile HTC is hard at work for the next flagship while you guys are busy wit their profit or losses
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There's nothing in anything that's been posted that's even remotely uplifting regarding HTC's future.
The One's without question the best phone HTC's ever made yet revenue, profit, and market share are down.
Their guidance for Q3 is projected to be down 30% YOY and Q3 includes their projected revenue for the Mini, Max, and any other devices launching during the quarter.
HTC's cost base is f'd because of their loss of scale. They weren't a "tier one" supplier even with the One's idealistic sales goals which means they pay more than their competitors for the same components and aren't given preference when parts are in scarce supply.
Samsung's monolithic and LG/Sony have deep pocketed parent companies with diverse product lines. Motorola's owned by Google. HTC's too small to compete with those companies as well as the Chinese with their low cost base and priority in the Chinese market.
For the eighth quarter in a row we've discussed HTC's "come back" and for the eighth quarter they've posted continually crappy results with their forward guidance showing no relief. The HTC brand may continue through an acquisition but the company itself is pretty much dead. And that's not my opinion, it's the analyst's which, after these results, all have "sell" ratings on the stock.
hamdir said:
such threads are not needed, we have been seeing them for years now
besides the verge always adds drama on top here is the proper press release
http://www.htc.com/www/about/newsroom/2013/2013-07-30-htc-reports-2013-second-quarter-results/
you can see clearly that they state, the One is getting them more revenue then last year flagships, but they fall short on the low end side of sales, also they have extra expenses for this quarter causing the predicted loss waste of profit
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Than.
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HTC is definitely in trouble. The One is an insanely great device and yet they just had their worst quarter. That sounds pretty bad. And again, with the 5s, budget iphone, note 3 and others I don't know how htc can turn this around.
Like Barry said htc is too small of a company at the end of the day. Sony, apple, LG, Samsung are huge companies that have more resources and you need deep pockets to compete. A merge with another company is almost certain at this point.
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Not to be redundant, but this one from Engadget has a positive tone to it.
HTC: the One is selling better than last year's hero products, but next quarter may see a loss
the previous Q2 profit results were good (reported last month)
and these are Q3 projections, considering the stated reasons
i never discussed a come back, all i said companies for a long time can survive with such up and down, we have tons of examples
come to think of it, Asus and HTC merge makes perfect Sense
Same country, Asus sucks in branding and worldwide distribution of it's products, their smartphone side isn't doing so great but they rock in pc and tablets, while HTC is specializes in smartphones exclusively
Asus only sucks in availability of their mobile stuff though. All their PC parts are available every part of the world. If they applied the same resources with the same enthusiasm + a HTC merger, it would be awesomely awesome beyond awesomeness.
hamdir said:
the previous Q2 profit results were good (reported last month)
and these are Q3 projections, considering the stated reasons
i never discussed a come back, all i said companies for a long time can survive with such up and down, we have tons of examples
come to think of it, Asus and HTC merge makes perfect Sense
Same country, Asus sucks in branding and worldwide distribution of it's products, their smartphone side isn't doing so great but they rock in pc and tablets, while HTC is specializes in smartphones exclusively
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Q2 was awful compared to last year's Q2 which is the most relevant comparison. Q-2-Q comparisons don't take in to account seasonality and other trends. And aging inventory is corporate speak for we overestimated demand and/or the competition is eating our lunch. Microsoft writing down $1B because of the Surface's lackluster sales is a good example. What's going to change for HTC? The One's not helping much and the Max and Mini launch is factored in to their Q3 quidance which projects a loss. Their previous focus on the high-end has made them a late comer in emerging markets. Even there their lack of scale makes an identically spec'd HTC phone more expensive to build than their competitors phones. So the high-end (the One) didn't save them and with limited distribution, higher component prices, and no brand loyalty in the price-focused lower tiers it's hard to envision them making much headway there. All the drivel about a bright future is coming from Peter Chou who's decisions and direction got HTC in to the mess they are currently in. His words kind of remind me of "I'll gladly pay you tomorrow for two hamburgers today." And the impact of their financial condition is already being felt by their customers; ask a One S owner.
HTC would survive just like BlackBerry. Would take a very long time to get back on track. I hope mini and ultra boost up their prifits
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Will be rooting for this underdog!
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BarryH_GEG said:
Q2 was awful compared to last year's Q2 which is the most relevant comparison. Q-2-Q comparisons don't take in to account seasonality and other trends. And aging inventory is corporate speak for we overestimated demand and/or the competition is eating our lunch. Microsoft writing down $1B because of the Surface's lackluster sales is a good example. What's going to change for HTC? The One's not helping much and the Max and Mini launch is factored in to their Q3 quidance which projects a loss. Their previous focus on the high-end has made them a late comer in emerging markets. Even there their lack of scale makes an identically spec'd HTC phone more expensive to build than their competitors phones. So the high-end (the One) didn't save them and with limited distribution, higher component prices, and no brand loyalty in the price-focused lower tiers it's hard to envision them making much headway there. All the drivel about a bright future is coming from Peter Chou who's decisions and direction got HTC in to the mess they are currently in. His words kind of remind me of "I'll gladly pay you tomorrow for two hamburgers today." And the impact of their financial condition is already being felt by their customers; ask a One S owner.
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mateeeeeee the One S is well documented already, the reason for the update drop is that Qualcomm stopped supporting snapdragon 3 and hence didn't provide the drivers for 4.2.2
the One S s4 will most likely receive it, as football said the work restarted on the OTA
also this story was confirmed by shen
I'm done here, it was my mistake to enter the financial discussions again
peace
Blackberry would be the one to fall before HTC. HTC, will come back around..
Sammy and Apple love the attention. Ads Ads Ads Ads. It sinks into peoples heads, that these phones are the latest a and greatest that other phones are garbage to them. All in marketing control.. That's why you see more 15 yr old girls with iPhone more and more everyday. Its all about how you advertise. More advertisement the more you will get out of it. $$$
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Trouble Trouble
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According to the latest research from Counterpoint Research’s Market Monitor service for Q3 2015 (July-Sept) the US smartphones market grew a healthy 9% Y/Y, though slightly slower than the Q2 2015 uptick. The majority of growth was driven by challenger brands such as ZTE, LG, Blu, Asus and other smaller players, all registering double digit volume growth.
ZTE is the fastest growing major smartphone OEM as its volumes grew 45% YoY, capturing an 8% share and the fourth spot, behind LG. The Chinese vendor had particular success within AT&T and Sprint channels. This may pave the way for other Chinese OEMs to both increase volumes and climb to higher price points. Xiaomi’s recent licensing agreement with Qualcomm may help with sell-in attempts with US carriers.
LG recorded its highest ever market share in smartphones to 15% from 9% some eight quarters ago. The demand for LG’s smartphones have increased across all carriers cementing its position in important US market.
With the rise of equipment installment plans (EIP) and leasing programs, we are seeing dramatic shifts in how consumers are perceiving the unbundled device costs aided by carriers now welcoming Bring-Your-Own-Device (BYOD) type consumers. This is an important trend that is driving the demand for open, SIM-free, or unlocked devices. As a result we are seeing the rise of players such as Blu, Asus and other microvendors such as OnePlus and Oppo.
In the overall mobile phones market, Alcatel One Touch more than doubled its volumes and share Y/Y as it continued to fill the gaps left by Samsung, LG and others’ shift away from feature phones. Alcatel was the fifth largest mobile phone brand during the quarter. However, Alcatel needs to ramp up its smartphone efforts with multiple design wins in the upcoming quarter to surpass ZTE as the fourth largest brand overall.
Apple remains the top selling vendor in all four of the top tier US carriers. Apple, and to a lesser extent, other smartphone flagships, have benefited from equipment installment plans and leasing programs. Apple has seen larger year-over-year growth in T-Mobile & Sprint—carriers who have been very aggressive with EIP & leasing programs. These programs may help increase upgrade rates which have been trending lower in recent quarters.
Samsung’s performance remains strong at Verizon & T-Mobile where the Galaxy S6 series has been a good but not exceptional performer. A lot hinges on Samsung’s Note 5 and broadening of its mid-tier portfolio with the Galaxy A & J series, to win back some share from Apple, ZTE, LG and Alcatel.
T-Mobile continues to sell more smartphones than AT&T or Sprint and is the second largest smartphone channel, thanks to its aggressive offerings and pricing under its “Uncarrier” initiatives. T-Mobile is now one of the key channels for new brands looking to enter the US market through a carrier partnership route.
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Source: http://www.counterpointresearch.com/3q2015usa
Cool to read as an Idol 3 owner. That phone accounted for the majority of the YoY sales increase I would guess.
I guess growing from nothing is always more impressive. According to that article only T-Com sells Alcatel phones in the US and I see lots of complaints from US customers on XDA and Facebook (on Alcatel's page).
IMHO at this spring Alcatel must to prove us that they are not just an other Chinese junk company and they care their devices. At first it would be nice if they update their phones globally with the same version numbers and the same versions should have the same features. Next step is update Idol 3 to 5.1 or 6.0.1. At this moment I doubt we'll get any of these.