Database Users

Here's an interesting story, if any one believes the hype...

http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10...m_campaign=Feed:+Slashdot/slashdot+(Slashdot)

Interesting, but it's not really an apples to apples comparison. You're comparing a variety of phones with identical platforms outselling 1 specific phone.
On top of that people purposefully SEEK out to buy the iPhone where I'm willing to bet that a good part of the people who've purchased Android phones in the past 6 months most likely did so without knowing about or specifically wanting "Android". Their contracts were up for renewal and they got a good deal on a phone upgrade, or they're new subscribers. A few people I work with fall into this category, and the end response is "meh".

as a sales rep for a company that sells three of the major providers, (but not the iPhone) i can tell you that nightfallz is absolutely right. i sell android devices as an alternative to people who come in asking me about the iPhone. and am quite sucessful at it.

i wonder if everyone reading this forum gets credit for 5 activations. i was surprised when i received the email congratulating me for my Nexus One purchase, twice, when i tried darkstone froyo v1.
on a side note, i'm back to WinMo. I'll keep froyo in my microsd as an extra on-demand tool for the rare instance where I might need an "app" for something i cannot do on WM.

Nexus for developers is completely sold out - article

The Nexus ONe rides again - It's still a Star Here's the article
A flop with consumers, sold-out Nexus One scores with developers.
Google tried — and ultimately failed — to turn the U.S. wireless market upside-down by selling its supercharged Nexus One Android phone online, with minimal help from the big carriers. But now, months after shuttering its online storefront for the phone, the Nexus One is a sudden, improbable hit.
Who’s buying the Nexus One, you ask? Android developers, that’s who — and apparently, they’re so eager to get their mitts on the eight-month-old handset that Google supply of Nexus One phones for developers is completely sold out.
So says a post on Google’s Android developers blog (via TechCrunch), with Google’s Tim Bray writing that Google "blew through the (substantial) initial inventory in almost no time," adding that Nexus One manufacturer HTC is busy trying to crank out more of the suddenly gotta-have handsets.
Google launched the Nexus One — described in hushed tones as the "Google Phone" in the days and weeks before its official unveiling — way back in January, and the search behemoth caused quite a stir by offering the Android 2.1-powered handset only on the Web, through Google’s own Nexus One online storefront.
Why all the fuss? Because usually it’s the big carriers (think AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, and Verizon Wireless) who do the heavy lifting in terms of marketing and selling cell phones, both online and (mainly) in brick-and-mortar stores. While it got a little help from T-Mobile, which subsidized the Nexus One for use on its network, Google’s decision to go it virtually alone with the Nexus One — with practically no marketing help from a carrier—was seen as a potentially game-changing move.
Unfortunately, it turned out to be anything but. Sales of the Nexus One never took off, and an unprepared Google — which, before the Nexus One launch, had little need for a bank of customer-service reps — found itself quickly overwhelmed by customers complaining about iffy 3G reception (which ultimately led to a patch) and other assorted glitches.
Consumers were also underwhelmed by the less-than-revolutionary $179 two-year contract price and $529 price tag for an unlocked Nexus One, while existing T-Mobile users were turned off by the $379 upgrade price for the phone (which was eventually cut by $100). Last May, Google finally waved the white flag, announcing that it would close down its online Nexus One store.
So yes, Google learned the hard way that nothing beats a "full-court press by a big national carrier" (as I wrote back in May) when it comes to selling a smartphone. But here’s the thing: The well-reviewed Nexus One itself wasn’t a bad phone — indeed, it was (and still is) a pretty good one, complete with a 3.7-inch AMOLED screen, a 1GHz "Snapdragon" processor, 512MB of RAM, and a 5-megapixel camera with a flash.
The Nexus One also happened to be among the first handsets to get an update to Android 2.2 — a fact that clearly wasn’t lost on enthusiastic Android developers, who’ve been able to buy the unlocked Nexus One — in droves, apparently — direct from Google for a few weeks now.
In any case, Google is now in the strange but surely satisfying position of "working hard on re-stocking" (as Google’s TIm Bray puts it) a smartphone that looked all but dead just a few months ago. Strange, but true.
Google’s Android developers blog: A Little Too Popular (via TechCrunch)
— Ben Patterson is a technology writer for Yahoo! News.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ytech_gadg/20100820/tc_ytech_gadg/ytech_gadg_tc3447

guess that means that the nexus was more popular then Google thought

Sounds like the making of a Nexus 2 could become possible. Anybody else agree?

"The Nexus One also happened to be among the first handsets to get an update to Android 2.2" - REALLY? It was THE first phone. And it wasn't a "pretty good" phone, it was the best on the market for several months after launch. I think this guy has some facts he needs to get straightened out.

I really think the nexus sold more units over time then people think, and is in demand more than people think. This kinda shows that. Google jumped the gun by closing their online store. Also they mis calculated by not making the nexus into a whole line of Google phones.

The Nexus would have taken off at the time, but Google saw fit to market their well known search engine at superbowls and such instead of a phone that no one heard of.

As much as Google may have fumbled the marketing of the Nexus One when it was sold publicly - all that aside...
The article makes a lot of noise without revealing any numbers which are key to really verifying the conclusion that the phone is becoming more popular as a developer phone.
Yes, Google sold out the developer allotment - that's great. But, they also sold out a few allotments of their public phone back in the day - most notably the last allotment they ordered in July which sold out a week or two earlier than expected. That fact alone doesn't mean anything without knowing how big the allotments were. For all the article states, the allotment for the developers could have been very tiny under the theory that a smaller audience produces less sales and most developers would probably have already ordered one when they were sold publicly anyway.
All we know is that someone was pleasantly surprised by the demand for it from the developer store and that the initial allotment - chosen specifically for that sales purpose - was underestimated.
But, we don't know if that represents higher overall demand (or even relative demand) compared to the public allotments. And we don't know if either demand represented enough market force for the company to have continued to pursue its business plan of being in the open market for handsets.
It also rankles me when they make supporting comments like "now, months after shuttering its online storefront". Sorry, it was less than 1 month since they shut down the storefront when they sold out the developer phones. And don't ignore that allotments were selling out during the consumer sales when you try to make it sound like the developer sell-out was unprecedented. The fact that it was almost 1 month after the shut down the store (not months like the author states) was *due* to a consumer sellout. Otherwise it would have only been a couple of weeks since the store front was scheduled to shut down.

I think the point is that with all these high end android phones out now, the fact that ANYONE is choosing the nexus still tells the story. Specific numbers don't really matter. This is especially true since all these other phones are subsidized on contract, and the nexus is full price, and still selling at all 7 months later.

RogerPodacter said:
I think the point is that with all these high end android phones out now, the fact that ANYONE is choosing the nexus still tells the story. Specific numbers don't really matter. This is especially true since all these other phones are subsidized on contract, and the nexus is full price, and still selling at all 7 months later.
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Hi Roger,
That is a good point, but it isn't the tone of the article. "A flop with consumers" - "the Nexus One is [now] a sudden, improbable hit" - "[developers buying] in droves, apparently".
A flop? Really?
Sudden hit? Really that sudden?
Improbable hit? Really?
It may have had marketing problems, but it was never a flop. The new MS phones being canceled a week after they were released - that's a flop for you. And there is nothing sudden about a sellout a couple of weeks after another sellout. Nor is there anything improbably about that, or anything that spells "hit". And how big is a "drove". Apparently it is so specific that they suddenly realize the complete lack of facts in their piece and have to tack on the word "apparently". So, the phone is now selling to developers in a manner that one can only suppose is describable by a term that is as vague as "droves". Cute.
I'm glad that it is still selling and I'm glad that it sold out its developer allotment, but this article is exaggerating the impact of those facts with hyperbole based on both lack of knowledge (believing that the phone has been off sale for "months", etc.) and assumption of facts not presented.
It would be one thing if they had said what you said "The developer allotment sold out which shows that there is still positive demand for a device that is this old, but without numbers we can't tell if the demand is actually stronger in its developer form than it was as a consumer offering". But no, they basically paint its consumer history as if they couldn't be given away and then, without any numbers, paint the developer demand as being so much stronger than anything anyone could have expected that Google was stupid to have canceled it.
Sorry, no, the sell-out indicates that someone, somewhere, was wrong about a prediction that was specific to developer sales and has no bearing whatsoever about how the demand now compares to the demand as a consumer phone or to any other currently shipping phones.
As far as longevity - the G1 was still being sold as recently as about a month ago. Technology alone doesn't really dictate sales, but it is an important driver.

Now that Google knows there is an appetite for a "super dev phone", might they also reconsider their decision to permanently shelve the UMTS 850/1900 version?

I hate articles like this. The facts are wrong which makes the whole article irrelevant. I think the problem with the Nexus One is that only the geeks here really heard about it. There was no advertising done what-so-ever.
Although I am surprised to see more and more people recognize it as "Is that the Google phone?".
I'm glad I bought mine when I did because they shut down the store. Now I love it even more knowing that every joe-smoe can't go out and pick one up. I like knowing that I have one of the best Android phones and "you" can't buy one anymore.
I think we'll see a huge demand for the N1 when Gingerbread comes out. I think it will take a lot of time and a lot more tweaking to get 3.0 on a 2.x device then it was 2.2 on top of 2.1. I'm just happy that Google is developing it specifically for my phone and I don't have to worry about having a buggy port.

interesting reading on 2.2 and samsung

http://m.examiner.com/exSanFrancisco/pm_75809/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=WzckuLg6
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

I can accept that story or some other form it. I mean, it is out in Europe and has been for some time. And they have been dropping new phones with 2.2 for a while now. Why wouldn't these A-holes release it in the States. Can't imagine they have been testing the firmware for the past 7 months.

I have the epic and our update got delayed too. I knew it had something to do some bs like this but why would they delay the epic update because it already has sprint 4g in it. They could be upgrading their wimax to lte or coming out with the bidder screen model with the super amoled plus screen and they will launch that with froyo and leave ours in the dust. I guess we will find out on the 3rd of feb at sprints special event
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

I thought maybe Samsung was going to just skip 2.2 and release a 2.3 update because Samsung is already running 2.3 on their Nexus S.
I was actually going to buy an Epic tomorrow.
But, if this article is true, I am going to "devalue" Samsung and not buy their product.
[email protected] them if they are making existing customers suffer because of their greed.

Honestly, this is probably true. I know this sucks, but companies like this value their earnings more than their customers. Those of us who have been eagerly awaiting Froyo are in the minority, and they know that most of the people who own these devices couldn't care less about it.
This will probably be the last Samsung phone that I will ever buy, I'd rather give my money to a company which values their customers and provides customers with timely information regarding updates and the like.

This reminds me of the initial warnings about previous samsung devices and the lack of updates when the epic first came out. Although this is the best sprint phone I have owned to date I still wonder if I should have taken those warnings a little more seriously!

Yes I heard complaints in the past about Samsung's poor phone support but I still got the Epic. Mostly because my old phone (HTC Touch) died and it was going to cost $100 for a replacement (thanks lame Sprint insurance). So I just decided to get a new phone and compared to the Evo, the Epic seemed like the much better option. After experiencing Samsung's greed and lack of support for their existing products, I'm going back to HTC next go round.

Let's kill!

Agree. This most likely would've been the last Samsung phone I bought. This pretty much seals the deal.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

For my next phone I'm going to do exactly what I did with this phone. Find out what the best phone is.. check the phones out.. and go with the one that is the best. Right now, even after the Evo 4G Shift was released, the Epic and other Galaxy S phones are still the best phone. I have friends with the Evo, Droid X, MyTouch.. and I can safely say that I have the best phone. Those phones have 2.2, but I wouldn't THINK about switching to them. Do I want 2.2? Of course. I have it now thanks to custom roms but of course it kinda aggravates me that there is no official release of 2.2 yet. But that is ok. If I had a choice between a laptop with a Intel i3 running Windows 7 and a Intel i7 running Windows Vista (or even XP), I would take the i7.
In my opinion, company tactics will forever aggravate us users. Throwing around other company names like HTC as the company that will be this "knight in shining armor" will only dissappoint you in the future. I have had 3 HTC phones previously and without a doubt, I can say that they are definitely not beyond screwing their customers over. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it is right, but I'm saying that it is not uncommon. The day that these companies become non-profit organizations is the day you will see them put customers first.. I'm not holding my breath.

HeXeD said:
For my next phone I'm going to do exactly what I did with this phone. Find out what the best phone is.. check the phones out.. and go with the one that is the best. Right now, even after the Evo 4G Shift was released, the Epic and other Galaxy S phones are still the best phone. I have friends with the Evo, Droid X, MyTouch.. and I can safely say that I have the best phone. Those phones have 2.2, but I wouldn't THINK about switching to them. Do I want 2.2? Of course. I have it now thanks to custom roms but of course it kinda aggravates me that there is no official release of 2.2 yet. But that is ok. If I had a choice between a laptop with a Intel i3 running Windows 7 and a Intel i7 running Windows Vista (or even XP), I would take the i7.
In my opinion, company tactics will forever aggravate us users. Throwing around other company names like HTC as the company that will be this "knight in shining armor" will only dissappoint you in the future. I have had 3 HTC phones previously and without a doubt, I can say that they are definitely not beyond screwing their customers over. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it is right, but I'm saying that it is not uncommon. The day that these companies become non-profit organizations is the day you will see them put customers first.. I'm not holding my breath.
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I couldn't have said this better. I had debated typing this up earlier but you beat me to it. Great minds think alike
JD

As Lee Corso would say, 'not so fast my friend.' Before I scooped my Epic, I had the HTC Touch (the original way old Vogue) and the ppc6700 (the silver brick) before that. I never had any issues with software other than crappy windows mobile but when it came to updates and/or support, I was happy. Hardware was on point as well. Samsung Galaxy has been a major disappointment for me having owner various Samsung products and knowing that their hardware is excellent. Still think the Epic is terrific. Just disappointed at all the troubles that customers have experienced across the entire Galaxy lineup.
JudasD said:
I couldn't have said this better. I had debated typing this up earlier but you beat me to it. Great minds think alike
JD
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This page has more detailed information on the T-Mobile leaked rumor:
...Trust me when I tell you, we had an update for the original G1, and HTC begged us not to. In 75% of the cases known to me in my [time] here and my [time] dealing with Android I will say that honestly most upgrade hold offs were the Manufacturer and NOT us as some believe. But we catch the flack.
I am tired. [redacted] I am up to here with Samsung. They pulled the same thing with the Behold 2 that I MYSELF had to clean up and caught wind over. The update to 2.1 update 1 is existant...
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If true, this shows how completely and utterly out of touch Samsung's executives are with reality.
First of all, the whole theory that a 2.2-Vibrant(non-4G) would "devalue" the 4G. EVEN IF the only difference between the old and new Vibrant were the front camera and 4G, how many users likely to notice or care about whether or not the current Vibrant has 2.2 would *honestly* choose to buy the old model instead of the new one, even if it were a $50 difference between the two? People who buy $50 phones or wait months to get an old model on closeout for "free" with 2-year contract aren't the people who buy phones like the Epic, Vibrant, and the rest of the Galaxy S family. People in "our" category might ******* about a $50 difference... but we'll pay it anyway, because we know that if we don't, we'll be miserable and regret it daily for the next year or two.
Ditto, for customers who already own a Vibrant. In the entire United f***ing States, there *might* be 10,000 Vibrant owners who'll dump one and buy a Vibrant4G at full retail just to get 4G and/or the front camera. And I'll bet that a hefty subset of that group are T-Mobile employees whose "full" cost (after employee discount) is roughly what the rest of us would pay for a subsidized phone with contract, anyway. Now, having satisfied that group... how many more existing Vibrant customers do they REALLY think they're going to get by withholding 2.2 from owners of older Vibrants? Especially considering the abundance of custom ROMs.
The rationale becomes even more absurd when you consider the case of withholding 2.2 from Epic4G owners. I'm sure if you combed America hard enough, you might find a few Epic4G owners who'd dump it, pay the ETF to Sprint, switch to T-Mobile, and buy a Vibrant4G... but scratch a bit deeper, and I'd bet a major body part that the overwhelming majority of THAT group consists of users who probably wanted to switch anyway, and the existence of the Vibrant4G was more of an enabling excuse and rationale than an actual *reason*.
Companies like Samsung just don't seem to "get it". Consumers might chuck a $25 mp3 player to buy a newer, cooler one in 4 months. Statistically NOBODY chucks an expensive pocket computer whose marginal replacement cost exceeds $400 for an incremental improvement 4-6 months down the line. The closest ANY phone has probably come to motivating early switching was the Evo, and that was basically because the Evo was roughly twice as good as the Hero in almost every meaningful way, and worse in basically none. Users MIGHT be induced to switch early for 10x faster data, twice the cpu speed, 50% more resolution on a screen nearly twice the size, and a lot more ram. Users are NOT going to casually switch because one has 2.2 and one is officially stuck at 2.1... they're just going to root, reflash, and promise their deity of choice that they'll never buy another Samsung phone again.
If anything, T-Mobile is the biggest loser, because if true, this means that Samsung is effectively doing its best to devalue T-Mobile's inventory of existing unsold Vibrants. Now, if T-Mobile charges $10/month more for 4G service, that might merit trying harder to induce otherwise-indifferent new purchasers to go with the 4G model instead of the old model... but if it's the same price per month for service, it's to T-Mobile's own advantage to all but encourage new customers who are indifferent between the two to go with the old one... it's one less phone for T-Mobile to write off as a loss and send to a spare parts warehouse to gather dust until it ends up in a landfill or gets dumped on a new penny-pinching customer who only cares that it's "free" with 2-year contract, and one fewer customer who'll start abusing youtube as a source of free in-car music on demand (soaking up lots of bandwidth in the process).
This is the kind of logic that leaves me wondering how some big corporations can even stay in business. I worked for one a couple of years ago where we were ordered to *immediately* dispose of a hundred or so old laptops -- at a cost of $250 apiece -- instead of keeping them piled on a few shelves in a storage room in case we came up with a good use for them someday (like using them as thin clients for call center operators... something we had, in fact, done before). The executive rationale? The accountants complained that they were "costing" us $5,000/month to store based on the square-foot value of the space they were taking up in the closet, and somebody's wet dream fantasies about the value of that space. The thing is, we were about ~15 employees in a warehouse-like facility almost a square city block in size that was 95% empty (built during the dotcom boom, then the company was stuck with it due to a glut of similar buildings nearby). So, we burned $25,000 in the name of emptying off a 4x6 foot steel shelving unit, basically to humor the delusional fantasies of a faceless borg more concerned with a checklist item than getting actual work done and bringing in revenue. Madness. Pure, faceless, bureaucratically-driven out of control insanity.

HeXeD said:
For my next phone I'm going to do exactly what I did with this phone. Find out what the best phone is.. check the phones out.. and go with the one that is the best. Right now, even after the Evo 4G Shift was released, the Epic and other Galaxy S phones are still the best phone. I have friends with the Evo, Droid X, MyTouch.. and I can safely say that I have the best phone. Those phones have 2.2, but I wouldn't THINK about switching to them. Do I want 2.2? Of course. I have it now thanks to custom roms but of course it kinda aggravates me that there is no official release of 2.2 yet. But that is ok. If I had a choice between a laptop with a Intel i3 running Windows 7 and a Intel i7 running Windows Vista (or even XP), I would take the i7.
In my opinion, company tactics will forever aggravate us users. Throwing around other company names like HTC as the company that will be this "knight in shining armor" will only dissappoint you in the future. I have had 3 HTC phones previously and without a doubt, I can say that they are definitely not beyond screwing their customers over. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it is right, but I'm saying that it is not uncommon. The day that these companies become non-profit organizations is the day you will see them put customers first.. I'm not holding my breath.
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I agree with you and I really love my Epic BUT.... I can't help wondering how much better the phone would be with the upgrade.
Also Im sure this has been posted but this is an interesting read rating carriers and manufacturers on their upgrade rate.

looks to be true. This is on the front page of yahoo news.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/216716/samsung_blocking_ota_update_on_tmobile.html

Also made it to Slashdot!
http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/01/13/2334213/Is-Samsung-Blocking-Updates-To-Froyo
And PC World:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/216716/samsung_blocking_ota_update_on_tmobile.html
I have a feeling some people at Samsung are having a very bad day indeed.

Nexus S reboot problem:
Google Nexus S, google's second handset is in the limelight for wrong reasons this time. Looks like, the nexus S handsets are randomly rebooting atleast once every 48 hours, usually during a voice call! Google has officially confirmed this bug in their support forum. All the handsets that has been updated to the latest version of gingerbread (Android 2.3.1/GRH78) are affected by this bug.
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User's post from Slashdot story:
The real reason they are stonewalling on the 2.2 update for Vibrant is this: When they released the 2.2 update for the Vibrant in Canada, the update worked fine for a week or two, and then like clockwork bricked a huge percentage of the phones that updated. And when I say bricked, I'm not being liberal with that word, after a week or so running the Samsung 2.2 update, the SD card would become corrupt, and recovery mode would be unable to format it. My wife and I both have Vibrants, and it happened to them both one day apart. Samsung has been silent on the matter. Not surprising they'd avoid moving sending the 2.2 update out to US Vibrant owners, and also not surprising that they're refusing to explain why. Bell at least is fixing them, but lots of people on the XDA forum are saying their "repaired" phones are bricking again in short order.
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Samsung's official response to CNET's query about the rumor:
Samsung Mobile does not comment on rumors or speculation. With regard to the Froyo update, we recently issued the following statement: "Samsung feels it is important to make the Android 2.2/Froyo upgrade available only after we feel that we can give the millions of U.S. Galaxy S owners a simple and reliable upgrade experience. Due to the complexity and unique functionality of each Galaxy S device, we are performing additional testing and are working to make the Android 2.2/Froyo upgrade available to all U.S. Galaxy S owners, including the Samsung Vibrant, as soon as possible.
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Just to add to this conversation --> Just got off a chat with Sprint and I kept asking them about Froyo for the Epic. Everytime I mentioned it, the Sprint rep would direct me to Samsung and it's their fault. I think they got mad that I kept asking and pushing the subject, that they said they could no longer help me on the chat and gave me Samsung's number to call.
Looking at Samsung's facebook account, there a bunch of people complaining about this issue. Hopefully all this pressure will make Samsung cave in. *crosses fingers*

I call bull****.
Having come from the Crackberry world, this sort of stuff happens all the time. A supposed "reliable source" will leak some sort of story, the fringe enthusiast sites get wind of it and generates chatter and it eventually gets picked up by a naive journalist with a lazy editor and it gets put up as "legit" news which then causes a feedback loop which causes the internet to explore.
The example that comes to mind is the OS 4.7.0.113 update for the Blackberry Storm 9530 on Verizon, a leaked OS that "reliable sources" claimed was going to be the next official update but wasn't. It made it to PC World as well:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/163056/blackberry_storm_to_get_firmware_update.html
And it was 100% bull****. So I wouldn't give this rumor much credence.
The explanation of not wanting to take the wind out of the sails of the Vibrant 4G is irrelevant to other Galaxy S models where there is no similar Osbourne effect - such as with the Epic 4G.
My guess is that the actual explanation is much more mundane. Given the problem with Froyo bricking Vibrants, I would bet dollars to donuts that Samsung got super gunshy and their slow approach to Froyo updates to smaller markets is nothing more than a widespread, low-risk beta test to make sure their code is up to snuff before risking releasing an unstable update to the larger, litigious American Galaxy S userbases.

Samsung Galaxy tab 10.1 with 4g up for preorder at $550. Motorola let us down big...

Title says it all. Motorola went the way of exploitation and took the cheap route of superficial marketing to rush a half baked device to market at the expense of it's customers. Trying to put the final touchs on their Frankenstein creation people received their xooms unsealed and in essence unguarded. People have reported sending in their malfunctioning devices only to met with refusal because of "water damage" even though the seal on the purchase was already removed when they received it. Motorola reps at CES repeatedly said that the xoom would be upgradable to 4g soon after release, some saying 40 days, some saying 2 months, some saying whatever - all being false. SD card support has never been honored even though other tablets like the transformer with fundamentally identical specs have delivered since day one. Now Samsung is offering the same thing in thinner form factor for almost 300 dollars less - and we can only assume it will actually be WORKING also.
And if all this isn't bad enough we see that while Motorola had no problem taking large sums of money on false pretenses they simultaneously had no shame about neglecting original xoom owners and developing a second xoom in the meantime that is nothing more than a working version of what they promised the first would be. Pathetic.
They are striving hard for recognition as the biggest piece of **** company in the android game and judging by the recent reports of their stock value, it seems they are successful at something. Seriously it is not rocket science. False advertising, ****ty support (or none at all), zero accountability, no remorse or attempt for compensation or consumer confidence, equals a ****ty company that loses value in a competative market. Someone over there needs to take their heads out of their ass. A child can understand this.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

Oh my god just $550 and no contract? I wouldn't mind prepaid 4g data from verzion....

Europe has SD card support, and since it's not a GED that makes me suspect that the problem with SD card support is more of a Google issue than a Moto issue.

VaKo said:
Europe has SD card support
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Not yet, Motorola posted at Facebook that they will roll out the 3.1 Update with SD soon for EU... But what is soon? 2 weeks? 2 months?
Nobody received a update yet...

They shafted a lot of people. I have the WiFi only model so I don't apply. That sucks for everyone else though.

Does it suck? Yes. Motorola sold the Xoom on promises. But nowhere on the Box or on any advertisements did they say when LTE would be given out and nowhere in the advertisements was the SD card slot mentioned. So although you feel like you have been taken advantage of, you need to take some personal responsibility. You purchased an unfinished product willingly.
My response is that I will no longer buy Motorola products.

First this is not a personal attack on anyone, but I have to say that ALL of us bought this device well knowing that some of the features were still in developement. I have not seen anyone present actual evidence of Motorola committing to any specific dates as to when these features would be added. If you have evidence please share as I am sure there are many people who would like to see it.
Moto was first out of the gate with a HC tablet, if they had waited until everything was done it still would not have shipped and the same people who are blasting Motorola now for unsupported features would be the same people screaming that they were late to market. The US Xoom is a GED device, so the SD support is fully in Google's hands. As for the LTE upgrade, I have a WiFi Xoom so I really can not comment any more than what I have already said. In this type of market there really are not too many options.
1) Ship something with less features to be first or earlier to the market
2) Wait for the features to be fully supported and be late to the market
3) Ship the unit with full hardware support but lacking full software support so that features can be enabled in future SW updates.
It comes down to which one of these options satisfies the most people. I personally think they made the right choice, but everyone is entitled to thier own opinion. Now do I believe Moto needs to reduce the pricing to compete, of course. But I am sure that as soon as they reduce prices, people will be *****ing about that too. There is ALWAYS a premium for buying the first of anything, especially in the technology market.
Me personally, I like my Xoom and after reading reviews of the Samsung given the option to choose I would stick with the Xoom. Is it heavier - absolutely, is it more robust/durable - absolutely, is it going to get Adroid updates faster and for a longer period of time - most likely.
Regarding the point of them already designing a next generation Xoom, that is what companies have to do to stay competitive. There will ALWAYS be something newer/better/cheaper on the horizon and I would be more pissed off if they were not working on the next best thing.
Does it suck that something we all just spent good $$$ on a few months ago is not the "best" thing anymore, sure but that is how it goes.

I dont feel bad about my purchase...the cost of being an early adopter...also i dont care what anyone says...that Tab feels cheap as hell. My xoom feels bullet proof. Apple was able to make a thin device feel solid but like their phones, cameras, and big screen TV...the tab feels very plasticy and cheap. Just my opinion. I still love my xoom despite all this other stuff that comes out.

Kippui said:
Oh my god just $550 and no contract? I wouldn't mind prepaid 4g data from verzion....
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Where are you seeing that. I see $529 with a contract.

nubsors said:
Does it suck? Yes. Motorola sold the Xoom on promises. But nowhere on the Box or on any advertisements did they say when LTE would be given out and nowhere in the advertisements was the SD card slot mentioned. So although you feel like you have been taken advantage of, you need to take some personal responsibility. You purchased an unfinished product willingly.
My response is that I will no longer buy Motorola products.
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I am aware that they didn't commit to a "specific" date. Although if you followed CES where the xoom was debuted you will have heard Motorola reps offering all sorts of unofficial etas (all of which have come and gone). Regardless, misleading and dishonest advertising doesn't depend on them specifying a date. While they have said things like "by the end of Q2" (which was yesterday for anyone following) the practical truth is that when you offer a service in a fast moving market where a devices life cycle of relevance can be as little as 6 to 8 months (hence the new xoom 4g already on the horizon and quadcore chips becoming standard before the end of the year) you only have a certain window of oppertunity to deliver in a manner that represents the market you are trying to succeed in. To turn around and crawl under technicalities like, "we never promised you a certain date" becomes just a bold affirmation of ones own incompetence and utter lack of comprehension of the role that consumer trust plays in the role of your business. Look at apple. They have the most loyal fanbase, so much so that people buy their **** on principle without thinking, and while they shaft them on price, specs, and basic functionalities - they don't leave them out to dry when it comes to support.
As far as the SD card goes, go to Motorola's site. It is one of the specs advertised.
Someone can try to portray this as my own personal unjustified gripe but objectivity speaking these are business practices that will tarnish anyone's reputation and make people hesitant to buy their ****. I don't control that, it stems from common sense.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

The SD card issue on the US GED is a Google issue, everyone else is adding it aside from Google, so they need to answer this question. I don't think it's a huge issue though, it has 32GB of storage and I'm happy with that.
As for all the other complaints, yes, Moto are lying ****s, this isn't even a matter of debate anymore. But I still like my Xoom and I'm glad I bought it.

bmhanson said:
Where are you seeing that. I see $529 with a contract.
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Oh....
Sorry lol

HTC financial woes

i hope the One really helps HTC, but the delays are doing no favours
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/us-htc-earnings-idUKBRE93706620130408

I don't know what the fuss is all about. They are always posting profits. Less profits yes, but they are always in the black. Many companies go for years posting losses quarter after quarter. HTC has no problems as long as they are in profit each quarter.

Would now be a great time to buy stocks in HTC?

simba2585 said:
i hope the One really helps HTC, but the delays are doing no favours
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/us-htc-earnings-idUKBRE93706620130408
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I hope this thread gets locked, threads likes this really do XDA no favours.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

aydc said:
I don't know what the fuss is all about. They are always posting profits. Less profits yes, but they are always in the black. Many companies go for years posting losses quarter after quarter. HTC has no problems as long as they are in profit each quarter.
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Public companies like HTC serve their shareholders who buy stock in a company because they feel that stock is going to appreciate over time increasing the size of their investment (profit). Companies reward investors by growing sales, profit margins, and generating cash that's used for reinvestment to further their growth and increasing the market capitalization of the company. Doing so makes their stock appreciate which rewards the investors that placed their faith in them. This is HTC’s 2-year stock performance as of today.
In February, HTC revised their Q1 2013 guidance down to a level so low that it spooked analysts to the point there was a run on HTC's stock that triggered stop-sales on the TW exchange it's listed on (twice) because the amount of volume being sold and the stock's price decline triggered electronic safeguards. The revenue guidance HTC provided for Q1 that caused the stock fall was between NT$50 billion and NT$60 billion. Those are numbers provided by HTC less than eight weeks ago. The number they actually posted today was NT$42.8 billion. So not only did they miss the low-end of their own guidance they've demonstrated an inability to forecast their business. The latter's actually more troubling to analysts than the miss in revenue. And keep in mind that revenue is accounted for when devices are shipped to resellers; not when they are purchased by end consumers. So HTC's shipping rate is what caused the miss, not the sales or popularity of the One. And that they didn't know within an eight week span how deep their component issues were causing them to issue erroneous guidance is indeed troubling.
Operating margin (profit) was 1/10 of 1% of revenue for the first three months of 2013. You don't have to be a finance expert to know that's not sustainable. And the One's delay has put it right up against the launch of the SGS4 which will be accompanied by wider distribution and Samsung's gazillion dollar marketing budget. Apple's also launching the iP5S and possibly a lower-priced device in June according to analyst's speculation. Neither of those things is going to be good for HTC's full-year revenue. The analysts expect HTC to benefit from the One's sales in Q2 but that they'll decline again in the remaining quarters of the year. 30 out of 33 analysts have a "sell" rating on HTC's stock.
Their financial position was 25% better than today last August when the Taiwanese government began talks of bailing HTC out rather than letting them fail. HTC cannot continue to exist the way it does today and a single positive quarter based on the success of single device can't reverse their fortunes enough to change that. So it's highly unlikely they'll go out of business but some type of government intervention accompanied by a restructuring or merger or JV with another company are pretty much a given.
With stiff competition from Apple and Samsung, HTC has posted some less than stellar numbers the past few quarters. The company is still profitable, but its decline in sales and revenue have contributed significantly to Taiwan’s five months of decline in exports which saw a drop in July of 11.6% from a year earlier. HTC may be about to receive help from the Taiwanese government as it looks to turn its fortunes around after slipping away in the smartphone market recently. According to the Commercial Times, Taiwan's Central Bank Governor, Perng Fai-nan raised the issue during a meeting with government officials, suggesting it stepped in and offered assistance to the manufacturer. Perng noted that HTC's declining sales had had a knock-on effect with Taiwan's exports, which have also witnessed a decline in recent months. During the meeting, Perng apparently went on to say that the financial status of HTC is "of vital importance to the islands' gross domestic product". The Taiwanese government is taking this issue seriously, with an unnamed official reportedly saying the Ministry of Economic Affairs is already considering various ways to help out HTC.
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/ph...htc-could-receive-government-bail-out-1091781​These numbers show the production shortage really is that bad, and my sense is that it won’t get much better in the second quarter because many of those issues continue,” said Dennis Chan, an analyst at Yuanta Securities Co. in Taipei, who recommends selling the stock. “For smartphones, timing is everything and the delay means they lose that timing.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...w-profit-after-latest-smartphone-delayed.html​Profit is likely to recover in the second quarter as HTC One sales increase, said Daiwa Securities analyst Birdy Lu. The company has been touting the camera's performance in low light, and plans to more than double advertising spending under a new marketing chief. "HTC's whole schedule was thrown into disarray because of the HTC One, which meant it didn't have the revenue coming in but still had a lot of fixed costs," Mr. Lu said. "There will be some improvement this quarter in terms of the bottom line, but they still face a lot of competition."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...38196.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection​

htc is dying.
i bet samsung and apple are eager to buy htc for their patents and maybe blueprints

I'm sitting here fully perplexed
some of you call me HTC biggest fanboy
and yet in all honestly i dont care their financial woes
yes if they go away it will be a loss to the smartphone especially since they are the most unique OEM
but really why should I care all I want is the bloody device and 18months of support, the quality of the device and the software is guaranteed so why should I care about their money again?
honestly if anything Samsung's monopoly and money making is not really reflecting in better quality to the product
I prefer a zealous challenged OEM over a relaxed arrogant one

hamdir said:
some of you call me HTC biggest fanboy
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But always in a "good" way. You've helped more people than 90% of those on XDA (including me).
honestly if anything Samsung's monopoly and money making is not really reflecting in better quality to the product
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Being huge doesn't guarantee continued success; at least not at the same historic velocity. Look what Samsung's success has done to Apple's stock. And with more cash in the bank than 2/3 of the world's countries one can't say Apple's not successful. Samsung can't get lazy because if they do there are too many people gunning for them. If Apple does introduce a lower-cost iPhone it's going to kick Samsung in the nuts. And both ZTE and Huawei are gunning for them too. Samsung's only got one target in its sites; Apple. What the other Android device makers do with a collective 30% market share between them doesn't concern them.
If you think about it, there are too many Android manufacturers right now. None on their own is going to catch Samsung because their lead is too wide. If a couple fail or merge leaving Samsung and two strong financially healthy Android competitors it would be much better for competition than having four vendors with fewer than 10% of the market each. The market controls smartphone selling prices. Samsung’s volume makes their component costs significantly lower than their competitors. None of those competitors can continue to offer the same features as Samsung at the same prices and maintain a decent level of profitability on far lower volume. So a “boutique” smartphone maker would end up selling a device with similar functionality at a higher retail price to sustain their profitability. I don’t think that would work that well in such a competitive market. As applies in the jungle, only the strong survive.

cjm1979 said:
I hope this thread gets locked, threads likes this really do XDA no favours.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
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What's wrong with discussion ?
How is xda affected ?

BarryH_GEG said:
So a “boutique” smartphone maker would end up selling a device with similar functionality at a higher retail price to sustain their profitability. I don’t think that would work that well in such a competitive market. As applies in the jungle, only the strong survive.
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i would love HTC to go this way. willing to pay the premium
i think Sony and HTC are a good match but i dont know how that would work
anyway everyone is downsizing HTC than they really are, regardless of the profits/stock situation, its not really as "wallstreet" black or white as you guys think, its a lot more grey, the same can be said to many of the Asian brands as well
there is definitely a remedy being cooked for their problem but its not really what we are expecting

Great learning on this thread ,its great

@Barry,(didn't wanna quote the whole thesis), you're right, the HTC One success alone cannot bail HTC out of its financial trouble, especially with the iPhone and Galaxy S 4 coming out in Q3 and Q2 respectively. Either they're going to have to be bailed out or merge with another company. 2.8 million in profit is an All time low for HTC. The smartphone industry is a tough one, if you even have 1 off year, it will cost you big time. HTC had 2 off years.

I'm pretty optimistic about HTC with all the positive press on the One. I myself have owned every generation iphone and it took the HTC One to break the cycle. I have another friend who has always owned iphones and he just purchased four HTC Ones for his family and friends. This thing is going to be a dark horse. Samsung won't know what hit them.

grukko said:
I'm pretty optimistic about HTC with all the positive press on the One. I myself have owned every generation iphone and it took the HTC One to break the cycle. I have another friend who has always owned iphones and he just purchased four HTC Ones for his family and friends. This thing is going to be a dark horse. Samsung won't know what hit them.
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I'm in the same boat. Just want my Asda order now !!!

BarryH_GEG said:
Public companies like HTC serve their shareholders who buy stock in a company because they feel that stock is going to appreciate over time increasing the size of their investment (profit). Companies reward investors by growing sales, profit margins, and generating cash that's used for reinvestment to further their growth and increasing the market capitalization of the company. Doing so makes their stock appreciate which rewards the investors that placed their faith in them. This is HTC’s 2-year stock performance as of today.
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Then what would you say about Apple who have lost about $300 Billion worth of shareholder money in this time?
Or the fact that Galaxy S4 is being seen as Samsung's iphone5 moment! Apple played safe with iphone5 and historically it has broken sales records. Apple is flush with money, yet financial markets are unimpressed. Apple is no more innovative!
Samsung has done nothing with S4 but ape Apple iphone5 (that is to say play it safe). Interestingly the day S4 was announced by Samsung, Apple stock rose and investors cheered as S4 is NOT seen as much of a big threat to Apple as it could have been!
HTC is not gonna vanish anytime soon. just chillax. my company has been in huge losses for four years straight (we suppy chipsets to mobile makers) and yet are there (while we are much much smaller than even HTC). somebody always bails you out. Or otherwise also, all it takes is one blockbuster product and you are back in the game. Sony got that with XZ (they were in losses earlier). Very few companies are making any money in this business anyway but they are all hanging in there.

I don't know. I'm reconsidering what to buy after this.

joslicx said:
Then what would you say about Apple who have lost about $300 Billion worth of shareholder money in this time?
Or the fact that Galaxy S4 is being seen as Samsung's iphone5 moment! Apple played safe with iphone5 and historically it has broken sales records. Apple is flush with money, yet financial markets are unimpressed. Apple is no more innovative!
Samsung has done nothing with S4 but ape Apple iphone5 (that is to say play it safe). Interestingly the day S4 was announced by Samsung, Apple stock rose and investors cheered as S4 is NOT seen as much of a big threat to Apple as it could have been!
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The difference is that apple and Samsung have big budgets and lots of money, they can afford some type of loss, HTC cannot. You said it yourself, apple played it safe with the iPhone 5 and yet they broke records sales. Do you think apple care about the lack of innovation? No, not as long as they keep selling they don't. For Samsung, the S4 is getting more preorders than the S3 in the UK alone, those are good signs and remember again both companies have lots of money and are coming from big quarters.
It isn't about them though, it's about HTC. They have a great product with the One, everybody in the tech world recognizes it so there is no doubt. The question is is it too late?

At the end of the day it will be Samsung and apple left. Rest will fold and fail. Of course Google will continue to release nexus line which is stock but always mediocre hardware.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using xda premium

sabre31 said:
At the end of the day it will be Samsung and apple left. Rest will fold and fail. Of course Google will continue to release nexus line which is stock but always mediocre hardware.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using xda premium
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Lets pray that it doesn't happen, it would really make me sick. I love choices and competition.

HTC and Sony should stay alive. Sony will be for sure because they're a strong company. Can't say the same about htc. It'd be a shame if they fail.