Database Users

++++ We are solving Universal's memory leak problem... ++++

Bigface title to a not sure method, but with hoping success for the object.
I think everybody is fighting with this nerve-racking memory bug in wm5+vga+universal thing.
Me too.
Very very hard.
I'm very angry with this statement.
I bought the newest, most professional PDA with the oldest, most amateur speed.
It is not new for anybody, I'm sure.
I've opened this topic to solve this *******, because I think ROMupgrade is coming very slow.
I tried hundreds of different things to keep my RAM's free memory and get my Jasjar/MDApro/Exec more speed.
I'd like to share my experience to you and I'd like you to share your experience to us, to understand why does it happen.
OK....so.....
1) My first and biggest remark in this theme:
gwes.exe (this is a system process, which is runnig continously with the system to let us using functions of our device)
It is runnig with the following modules: (on my device, it is not sure all on yours too, but I think almost)
lrgwesex.dll
touch.dll
commctrl.dll.0409.mui
commctrl.dll
aygshell.dll
keybddr.dll
ddi.dll
toolhelp.dll
gwes.exe.0409.mui
toolhelp.dll
ceddk.dll
coredll.dll.0409.mui
ossvcs.dll
ole32.dll
coredll.dll
So...this gwes.exe starts with the system after a soft reset taking about 6MB RAM memory.
If you are watching carefully, when your RAM is getting less this gwes.exe is getting bigger.
In one of my examples after a soft reset I had 24MB free memory, and when I had just something like 4MB I checked the running services.
And you know what???
gwes.exe was using by then 19.5MB from the memory!!!!!!!!!!!
So I think when you start an application, system files are using more memory with applications, but when you close the application you have just more with the memory using by this application but less with the memory using by the system with this application.
I'm not sure with this, but i'm sure there is a big problem with this gwes.exe service.
I found more processes (device.exe, filesys.exe, cprog.exe, shell32.exe, repllog.exe) which are doing something the same but not that much than gwes.exe.
So if somebody has some reflections about this write it down to us!
2) A lot of people say there is a hack in the registry / storage manager cache keys which we increase, system will operate with higher speed.
I'm not sure now.
I tried a lot with different keys, and my suggestion is totally the opposite than that: when I set different cache keys (glyphcache, storage cahes...) to zero the system eats less memory and something the same with the speed.
Interesting.
I don't have exact results in these points, but thinking about somewhere here the answers.
Please help us to find the solution together to solve this irritating bug!
Sorry for my english, I'm hungarian.
THX
Tuningszöcske (It is in english something like Tuning-Grasshoper)

Here are my results ...
After Reset
=======
gwes 6.49 MB
filesys 1.86 MB
shell32 1.95 MB
cprog 2.12 MB
device 1.46 MB
services 215 KB
connmgr 91 KB
After Bloating
=========
gwes 12.7 MB
filesys 2.7 MB
shell32 2.39 MB
cprog 2.12 MB
device 2.3 MB
repllog 555 KB
services 407 KB
connmgr 111 KB
GWES really does bloat up a lot over time. Did a search on the net and it appears to be graphics related ...

It's good to see other's same results.
I'm searching for the answers countinously too...

I never have a memory issue with my dopod900, even after a week of usage with various games and application, the memory still remain around 22++M. Will try to check up the result and post it here.

I also want to know why........
After the reset, my machine has around 20M left and after a while, only 11M left and that's last for quite a long time. I have no experience that the memory is only around 4M....
Cheers,

chtan said:
I never have a memory issue with my dopod900, even after a week of usage with various games and application, the memory still remain around 22++M. Will try to check up the result and post it here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you using the stock machine without all the tweaks ? I mean have you applied optimizations like cache settings, etc ?
I'm just wondering if it might have something to do with some of the changes we made to improve performance :?

The issue is partially duie to Microsoft, but also partially due to 3rd party developers. I know for a fact that a lot of developers do not bother to have their applications issue defragment or compact instructions to the operating system after closing. They take up place and resources in the memory heap but do not "give them back" after they close.
You can blame the Universal as much as you want, but in my opinion it's one hell of a machine that had the misfortune to be the first officially released WM5 machine out there. Microsoft is indeed working on speed, stability and other issues form their end (the latest O2 Exec rom is by far the fastest and most stable ROM there is), but the developers need to do their bit as well and start working on their program's behaviour.
"If a kid does not tidy up his room, it's likely it will start losing things"

Wiz said:
The issue is partially duie to Microsoft, but also partially due to 3rd party developers. I know for a fact that a lot of developers do not bother to have their applications issue defragment or compact instructions to the operating system after closing. They take up place and resources in the memory heap but do not "give them back" after they close.
You can blame the Universal as much as you want, but in my opinion it's one hell of a machine that had the misfortune to be the first officially released WM5 machine out there. Microsoft is indeed working on speed, stability and other issues form their end (the latest O2 Exec rom is by far the fastest and most stable ROM there is), but the developers need to do their bit as well and start working on their program's behaviour.
"If a kid does not tidy up his room, it's likely it will start losing things"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm, you would think that Microsoft would be smart enough to put in some checks to automatically release the memory used by a an application after it closes :?
I don't blame the universal, the hardware is fine and I'm quite happy with it. I do however blame Microsoft. WM5 is just soooo slow. If I didn't do all the performance tweaks that's been discussed here, I don't think I can live with this device. You have to understand that I come from using 3 generations of Palm devices previously, and even though they are using much slower processors, they are waaay more responsive than WM5.
The last Palm I used was the Sony Clie NX70. I used it for 2 years without having to do ROM upgrades, etc. and it worked just fine. One would think that given the number of years that Microsoft had to improve WM, that they would be able to do a better job. As it is now, I'm finding all kinds of weird bugs all over.
Well, I'm just frustrated, sorry for ranting :lol:

christan said:
The last Palm I used was the Sony Clie NX70. I used it for 2 years without having to do ROM upgrades, etc. and it worked just fine. One would think that given the number of years that Microsoft had to improve WM, that they would be able to do a better job. As it is now, I'm finding all kinds of weird bugs all over.
Well, I'm just frustrated, sorry for ranting :lol:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been making the same point - M$ should know better and memory management is not bleeding egde tech. My Symbian devices have rock solid memory management, they just keep running for weeks and months without the need for a reset. For a US$1000 we should expect better quality all round. Lets hope in te next 6 months we finally get what we paid for.

jah said:
christan said:
The last Palm I used was the Sony Clie NX70. I used it for 2 years without having to do ROM upgrades, etc. and it worked just fine. One would think that given the number of years that Microsoft had to improve WM, that they would be able to do a better job. As it is now, I'm finding all kinds of weird bugs all over.
Well, I'm just frustrated, sorry for ranting :lol:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been making the same point - M$ should know better and memory management is not bleeding egde tech. My Symbian devices have rock solid memory management, they just keep running for weeks and months without the need for a reset. For a US$1000 we should expect better quality all round. Lets hope in te next 6 months we finally get what we paid for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sure hope someone here can figure out a hack to fix this soon, cause as it is now, I'm having to soft reset at least once a day, quite often more.
Can any users here who are NOT experiencing the memory leak issues come forward ? I think we would all like to know what we're doing differently that might be causing the memory leaks ...

chtan said:
I never have a memory issue with my dopod900, even after a week of usage with various games and application, the memory still remain around 22++M. Will try to check up the result and post it here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi chtan!
Is it possible to ask you to backup your registry to a file and upload here?
Just to see what is different in your system than ours.
And which is your ROM and ExtendedROM version?
THX

Hint
Hi Guys,
The above phenomenon is due to the reason that now we all have data in the flash memory.I was using earlier Nokia Symbian phones, viz 6600,9500...in all these the same used to happen and I had to restart the device...but there are 3rd party softwares, which compress the RAM if the above thing happens and we are at the initital full RAM memory w/o restarting the device...like Stacker, Switcher etc...similarly we also have "Place Maker" for Smart Phones...to do the same...someone can try this app...or someone can make an app to do the same...I hope this gives some light to solve this problem..

Re: Hint
hdubli said:
Hi Guys,
The above phenomenon is due to the reason that now we all have data in the flash memory.I was using earlier Nokia Symbian phones, viz 6600,9500...in all these the same used to happen and I had to restart the device...but there are 3rd party softwares, which compress the RAM if the above thing happens and we are at the initital full RAM memory w/o restarting the device...like Stacker, Switcher etc...similarly we also have "Place Maker" for Smart Phones...to do the same...someone can try this app...or someone can make an app to do the same...I hope this gives some light to solve this problem..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you are right.
This is a secondary option to solve this problem.
But I don't know any application for pocket pc which does RAM-compression.
Do you know one?

Re: Hint
Tuningszocske said:
hdubli said:
Hi Guys,
The above phenomenon is due to the reason that now we all have data in the flash memory.I was using earlier Nokia Symbian phones, viz 6600,9500...in all these the same used to happen and I had to restart the device...but there are 3rd party softwares, which compress the RAM if the above thing happens and we are at the initital full RAM memory w/o restarting the device...like Stacker, Switcher etc...similarly we also have "Place Maker" for Smart Phones...to do the same...someone can try this app...or someone can make an app to do the same...I hope this gives some light to solve this problem..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you are right.
This is a secondary option to solve this problem.
But I don't know any application for pocket pc which does RAM-compression.
Do you know one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By RAM compression, do you mean an active app that runs in the background to automatically compress stuff in RAM then decompress stuff in the RAM on-the-fly when used ?
If it is what I think it is, I don't think RAM compression is the way to go unless there is absolutely no other solution, cause compression-decompression will have a significant performance impact.
I think it's more important to get to the root of the problem

NO.
There are many applications for PC which make the RAM free from unused services, applications, files...
Using this method, you don't need to restart your machine.
It worth it for me to push a button or a shortcut to free the memory without a softreset.

Tuningszocske said:
NO.
There are many applications for PC which make the RAM free from unused services, applications, files...
Using this method, you don't need to restart your machine.
It worth it for me to push a button or a shortcut to free the memory without a softreset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opps, I misunderstood the use of the term "Compression" there ...
Yes, if someone can come up with an app that can "clean" up the RAM, that would be good too

Wiz said:
The issue is partially duie to Microsoft, but also partially due to 3rd party developers. I know for a fact that a lot of developers do not bother to have their applications issue defragment or compact instructions to the operating system after closing. They take up place and resources in the memory heap but do not "give them back" after they close.
You can blame the Universal as much as you want, but in my opinion it's one hell of a machine that had the misfortune to be the first officially released WM5 machine out there. Microsoft is indeed working on speed, stability and other issues form their end (the latest O2 Exec rom is by far the fastest and most stable ROM there is), but the developers need to do their bit as well and start working on their program's behaviour.
"If a kid does not tidy up his room, it's likely it will start losing things"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No hack or tweak applied, everything in stock condition. This confirmed my suspicious that Exec and I-mate only having this problem and this is due to their highly customized rom set.

That is strange.. I also have Dopod 900 and suffer from the same problem of memory leaks. The first time I got my Dopod 900 with factory default settings and applications, I played with it for 2 days and noticed that the memory went down to 15++ M.
So I would assume that without any 3rd party applications installed, memory leaks problem is there..

Chtan!
Then you could be a magician, because - i think - we all use the ROM with factory settings after a hard reset, and then - same as you -, when we install a lot of different applications and games, we have the memory leak.
So, what about this registry backup for us?
Or can you write it here the apps and games you use?

I have not performed a soft reset for 5 days. I am performing a test on how long my EXEC can last without having to perform a soft reset. I use mine regularly everyday, about an hour on phone calls, 2 hours on browsing using PIE, the usual opening and closing of applications, and I leave it at night charging while playing a DVD on a continuous loop for non-stop movie playback. I do admit the only time I notice slow downs (4 seconds to open an application) is if I leave about 10 open applications at the same time running in the background. That is why I make sure I close all open applications after use using Handy Menu's option to close all. As of now here is my memory allocations:
Storage
Total: 43.72 MB
In use: 14.52 MB
Free: 29.19 MB
Program
Total: 49.93 MB
In use: 30.94 MB
Free : 18.99 MB (with active sync open and running attached to my computer) If I unplugged my EXEC and close active sync, it goes back to 20.19 MB
These are all my open applications and memory usage without any slow downs:
gwes.exe: 7.48 MB
filesys.exe: 2.72 MB
device.exe: 2.43 MB
cprog.exe: 2.33 MB
shell32.exe: 1.43 MB
repllog.exe: 499.69 KB
services.exe: 227.76 KB
tmail.exe: 163.62 KB
connmgr.exe: 131.81 KB
HandyMenu.exe: 123.81 KB
rapiclnt: 115.90 KB
poutlook.exe: 47.90 KB
SDDaemon.exe: 47.90 KB
MemMaid.exe: 23.90 KB
shfind.exe: 19.90 KB
srvtrust.exe: 7.90 KB
NK.EXE: 0 Bytes
Even with these applications open. My EXEC runs fine with no slow downs.
I am happy with my EXEC. Even after 12 hours of continuous Movie playback at night, I don't feel my EXEC over heating. This thing is amazing!

Program Memory 2MB???????????????

I have no idea what is going on with my Exec and have to keep resetting it all the time to get back the program memory which drops to between 2 and 3mb frequently even when there are no programmes running. Is this normal?
Here is what I have installed on my Exec:
Batter Bar
Program Bar
Pocket Breeze
All the above on the Today Screen.
Besides, I have Net Front
Resco File Explorer and thats pretty much it.
Last night, when surfing with Net Front, I got the error, not enough memory to open programme and then Net front shut down. I checked, the program memory was down to 2.3mb. Closed all the open programmes (only text messages and calender were open) and also went to task manager and closed all running programmes.
Thereafter, the Progam memory went up to 3mb.
But that is where it stayed unfortunately till I ultimately had to reset it and it came back to about 16mb. After texting a little and also opening my appointments, it was down again to 10mb.
I am kind of frustrated actually..... is this expected of the Exec? On my XDA II, I always had in excess of about 50Mb available and maybe that is why it is twice as fast as the universal.
PLEASE HELP......WHAT CAN I DO? THANKS ALL.
Cheers, Vikas.
PS: Spent the last two days searching for any solution on these boards visavis old posts but didnt find out how to and hence this request.
I really really appreciate all those who can help out and thank you all in anticipation.

there isnt a solution, your screwed....
Some "options" for you to consider:
soft reset regularly to get it back
use 02 corporate not the mickey mouse retail version (I use imate)
beware of all "additional" fat that the device comes with by default
read these forums in detail (about 1 month), the sticky at the beginning of the universal forum by craigie4craigie is a really really good start though highly detailed
watch out for what you sychronise, one person had a 12 megabyte PIM file for calendars and contacts. mine was 5meg due to all the calendars, so I stopped syncing all calendards and wound it back to 1meg by doing only the last two weeks.
check your emails, mms, and text files, keep em clean and clear. if syncing emails, only sync the headers or 5kb, dont do attachments.
your today screen additions are always resource hungry, and suck memory. my SPB Pocket Plus, with Weather, and Diary sucks about 8meg (28 startup without anything to 20meg), and slowly dwindles down to 10meg when I soft reset.
As it likes to cache the entire website, I did find one circumstance where for some reason the website was absoloutely massive, with pictures, giffs, fonts etc, and this zapped my memory from 20meg to 3meg. When it closed, it went back upto 12meg.
A couple of files on this site are being tested to kill unused apps memory resources, which is slightly effective.
You really want to try and keep your boot up memory to about 20meg, and it will drop to about 10meg during a days heavy usage.
Consider getting rid off:
Batter Bar
Program Bar
I have heard elsewhere that the Batter Bar in particular wasnt good for the device. As I have never really heard of either and have read lots in these forums for a year or so, then its not a good thing that I dont know of them. Maybe somebody else here could correct it.
Generally, reliable applications that you can use are SPB, Resco, and SBSH each have their own pros and cons. SPB can slow it down also, but it isnt that extensive, and if I find I really need the speed, I just disable it from the today screen, I am beta testing the newer release at the moment.
Activesync left sync'ing all day can easily kill 10meg of my memory over the whole day.
Also, what is actually in your startups, not just the today screen. With my imate, there was about 4 on install, and I got rid of all of them entirely.
There are so many tweaks, hacks, and improvements, and modifications that can be done.
Firstly though, ensure you are in corporate mode from what I have ready about the 02 version.
Seriously think about the hard reset, then be really choosely about what you install, and to where. Test each extensively after each install.
Anyway, thats enough for the moment, let me know your opionions....

So basically I'm screwed.... dont know if I like the sound of that but am sure that is the truth. :lol:
Oh well. Simon, would like to say how much I appreciate your reply and your taking the time to write all this down, that is indeed very nice of you and thanks again for this.
Regarding your message:
1. Yup will keep resetting especially after syncing (at work my Exec is always syncing/charging so guess need to reset once a day)
2. Yup using Corporate mode and not the ghastly slow O2 active desktop
3. Read and followed the Sticky post regarding tips and tricks for the Exec, installed Pocket Mechanic and did a registry cleanup along with deleting most notifications.
4. Synced my contacts/calender etc, about 4.5 Megs
5. Sms's I delete regularly so not more thatn 30 at one time. Emails are usually deleted and hardly any on the Exec.
6. Guess my batter pack and programme bar along with pocket breeze must be using up the RAM as when I soft reset, have about 18 to 19 MB free at that point which dwindles down to about 10 mb during the course of the day. If using Active Sync and then NetFront or Opera, this goes down to about 2/3MB
7. Sorry about battery bar, but meant battery pack pro (gosh I sould like such a dolt). I should get rid of it? Along with Programme Bar? What is a good alternative? SPB POcket Plus?
8. Not much else on the Today screen, just the Battery Pack Pro, Programme Bar & Pocket Breeze thats it.
Will try out your suggestion of doing a Hard Reset and loading again selective programmes, guess I need to figure out which ones even though I like the ones I have on right now. What do you think?
Once again, can't tell you how much I appreciate your taking the time and effort to help out. Thanks a ton.
Cheers, Vikas.
simon_darley said:
there isnt a solution, your screwed....
Some "options" for you to consider:
soft reset regularly to get it back
use 02 corporate not the mickey mouse retail version (I use imate)
beware of all "additional" fat that the device comes with by default
read these forums in detail (about 1 month), the sticky at the beginning of the universal forum by craigie4craigie is a really really good start though highly detailed
watch out for what you sychronise, one person had a 12 megabyte PIM file for calendars and contacts. mine was 5meg due to all the calendars, so I stopped syncing all calendards and wound it back to 1meg by doing only the last two weeks.
check your emails, mms, and text files, keep em clean and clear. if syncing emails, only sync the headers or 5kb, dont do attachments.
your today screen additions are always resource hungry, and suck memory. my SPB Pocket Plus, with Weather, and Diary sucks about 8meg (28 startup without anything to 20meg), and slowly dwindles down to 10meg when I soft reset.
As it likes to cache the entire website, I did find one circumstance where for some reason the website was absoloutely massive, with pictures, giffs, fonts etc, and this zapped my memory from 20meg to 3meg. When it closed, it went back upto 12meg.
A couple of files on this site are being tested to kill unused apps memory resources, which is slightly effective.
You really want to try and keep your boot up memory to about 20meg, and it will drop to about 10meg during a days heavy usage.
Consider getting rid off:
Batter Bar
Program Bar
I have heard elsewhere that the Batter Bar in particular wasnt good for the device. As I have never really heard of either and have read lots in these forums for a year or so, then its not a good thing that I dont know of them. Maybe somebody else here could correct it.
Generally, reliable applications that you can use are SPB, Resco, and SBSH each have their own pros and cons. SPB can slow it down also, but it isnt that extensive, and if I find I really need the speed, I just disable it from the today screen, I am beta testing the newer release at the moment.
Activesync left sync'ing all day can easily kill 10meg of my memory over the whole day.
Also, what is actually in your startups, not just the today screen. With my imate, there was about 4 on install, and I got rid of all of them entirely.
There are so many tweaks, hacks, and improvements, and modifications that can be done.
Firstly though, ensure you are in corporate mode from what I have ready about the 02 version.
Seriously think about the hard reset, then be really choosely about what you install, and to where. Test each extensively after each install.
Anyway, thats enough for the moment, let me know your opionions....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

RE THIS:
7. Sorry about battery bar, but meant battery pack pro (gosh I sould like such a dolt). I should get rid of it? Along with Programme Bar? What is a good alternative? SPB POcket Plus?
8. Not much else on the Today screen, just the Battery Pack Pro, Programme Bar & Pocket Breeze thats it.
DESELECT THE FROM YOUR TODAY SCREEN, AND IF NECESSARY THE STARTUP DIRECTORY.
THEN CHOOSE EACH ONE SEPERATELY FOR THE DAY TO SEE THE IMPACT.
ACTIVESYNC IS SUCKING THE GUTS OUT OF IT.
Resco explorer comes with a free today programme plugin, which is memory efficient.
SPB PP will do journal bar and programme features in one, but has more memory overheads.
never used pocket breeze, but lots do abd isn't likely to be the cause of memory issue.
There is large volumes of info on this forum on memory loss, and most are anticipating a major ROM update to fix.... maybe hopefully, we'll see.

You can try use Memmaid of Dinarsoft to get a list of programs running in RAM and how much of the ram they are consuming, just to get an idea of which particular program is consuming the most ram.
Heres the pocketgear shortcut:
http://www.pocketgear.com/downloads.asp?product_id=14279&prodname=MemMaid (supports WM5) 1.5
Hope this helps you to find out what memory problems you have.

First of Simon, Thanks a lot once again.
Second, sorry for the late reply but was trying out your suggestions which I have to say are invaluable.
Did a Hard Reset a couple of days ago.
Loaded back on some programmes that I really require:
At start with no sync, nothing, Free Ram is 33 mb
I then synced with the computer after loading SOTI Pocket Professional
Total Pim size: 4.5Mb
Free ram at this stage: 25mb
Then loaded on the following:
Rescoe File Explorer along with Resco Today add on
Pocket Breeze (maybe I should look for an alternative?)
Memaid
Net Front 3.3
Memory at this stage is now 22mb or so after a soft reset.
Now really missed the program bar (from Battery pack pro) so installed the Magic Button (Great programme) and PsShutXp.
Total ram now after all this, about 22mb after soft reset, normal usage, with contacts, calender, text messages open, about 18mb.
Guess I can live with this. Maybe removing battery pack pro was the solution.
Of course, the moment I connect to active sync (its on active syn the whole time I'm at the office), the ram goes down to 9mb. Guess that really sucks memory.
Now, maybe I also need to get rid of Pocket Breeze and install some other s/w to replicate it but without too much loss of RAM.
Thanks to you Simon, started using the Resco Today Plug in which I am sure hardly uses much ram. And is not bad at all.
Didnt use pocket plus as most report memory issues with it.
Certainly hope that the new ROM fixes these memory leak problems. Thanks a lot again. The Exec is now faster than before but its sad that they would make this device without enough memory or with issues such as this. The XDAII never had any such problems and to be honest, I still miss it.
Cheers, Vikas.
simon_darley said:
RE THIS:
7. Sorry about battery bar, but meant battery pack pro (gosh I sould like such a dolt). I should get rid of it? Along with Programme Bar? What is a good alternative? SPB POcket Plus?
8. Not much else on the Today screen, just the Battery Pack Pro, Programme Bar & Pocket Breeze thats it.
DESELECT THE FROM YOUR TODAY SCREEN, AND IF NECESSARY THE STARTUP DIRECTORY.
THEN CHOOSE EACH ONE SEPERATELY FOR THE DAY TO SEE THE IMPACT.
ACTIVESYNC IS SUCKING THE GUTS OUT OF IT.
Resco explorer comes with a free today programme plugin, which is memory efficient.
SPB PP will do journal bar and programme features in one, but has more memory overheads.
never used pocket breeze, but lots do abd isn't likely to be the cause of memory issue.
There is large volumes of info on this forum on memory loss, and most are anticipating a major ROM update to fix.... maybe hopefully, we'll see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Dear Jorgee,
Many thanks for your email and took your advice and downloaded and installed Memaid. It does do the job of cleaning up the Exec well and am going to stick with this one. Thanks again.
Cheers, Vikas.
Jorgee said:
You can try use Memmaid of Dinarsoft to get a list of programs running in RAM and how much of the ram they are consuming, just to get an idea of which particular program is consuming the most ram.
Heres the pocketgear shortcut:
http://www.pocketgear.com/downloads.asp?product_id=14279&prodname=MemMaid (supports WM5) 1.5
Hope this helps you to find out what memory problems you have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Tmobile Wing ship ROM low memory

Hello everyone, so I got the T-mobile wing wich is the same as the Herald a couple of days ago, and the first thing I checked when I turned it on was the program memory and it was very disappointing at around 17MB then it went down from there I never saw the 17 again, I have a few apps installed and now my memory is around 9MB after soft reset. I am not liking this about this device especially after been spoiled with the Core 2.0n ROm on my MDA (wizard) I had more apps installed and still had over 25 MB of program memory left, as far as I know the only way to make this better is to flash it with a cooked rom, but since that is too risky at this point with not having a ship rom to go to if phone gets briked I am wondering if anyone has any thoughts or solutions for this issue.
by the way I think other then the size of the wing I like the wizard better in many ways. share your thoughts.

Hummm... Are you installing your programs in storage memory or at the memory card? With exception of programs that interfere with the today screen, like wisbar advance for example, all programs should be installed in the memory card.
I have 19MB of storage memory still available... I've installed 19 programs, and only 5 are in the storage memory

BRSG said:
Hummm... Are you installing your programs in storage memory or at the memory card? With exception of programs that interfere with the today screen, like wisbar advance for example, all programs should be installed in the memory card.
I have 19MB of storage memory still available... I've installed 19 programs, and only 5 are in the storage memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I always install all programs on th mmory card I have a 2GB and I have 15 apps installed and 24.4 MB internal storage memory left so that one is ok, but I was talking about RAM memory that programs need to run not storage memory the on the right side when ou open the memory screen.

The problem is the pagepool.
All cooked rom for wizard have 4 or 8MB pagepool because that´s enough. I guess on wing it is the normal 12MB - too much.
We have to cook smaler ones and we will get back the big RAM like 30MB.
Let´s wait for official update and start cooking without the possibility of bricking.
lol

FZZF said:
I always install all programs on th mmory card I have a 2GB and I have 15 apps installed and 24.4 MB internal storage memory left so that one is ok, but I was talking about RAM memory that programs need to run not storage memory the on the right side when ou open the memory screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Weird It is a fact that more today plugins result in less program memory, and there are some programs that even not being placed in today screen need alot of memory to run. I have about 20MB of free program memory. Maybe you should try to see which programs are using that much memory to run...

low memory on wing
I am experiencing the same thing. It sad when you have no programs running except for Activesync, and you can not even power up the camera. I have a T-mobile WdG care rep looking into it. The only other program i have installed is the slingplayer. I also have notice the a sling player error message showing not enough memory.

BRSG said:
Weird It is a fact that more today plugins result in less program memory, and there are some programs that even not being placed in today screen need alot of memory to run. I have about 20MB of free program memory. Maybe you should try to see which programs are using that much memory to run...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have the HTC p4350 so I am sure it's runing on different rom, I think the problem is with the T-Mobile USA Rom, it has too much crap on it I even did a soft reset right before customization to prevent the t-MO stuff to install and that gave me an extra 7MB of storage but no better on the program memory and the timobile stuff still installed. I did turn off all plug ins I even shut down all unnecessary processes with memmaid and the best I got was 13MB so I am pretty sure it's the rom and I thnk Papa is right it may have to do with the page pool and or a combination of both page pool and all the T-Mobile garbage in the rom.

cyberjr said:
I am experiencing the same thing. It sad when you have no programs running except for Activesync, and you can not even power up the camera. I have a T-mobile WdG care rep looking into it. The only other program i have installed is the slingplayer. I also have notice the a sling player error message showing not enough memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes it is sad when a cooked rom is a million times better then a ship rom made by the biggest software company in the world as Papa said I am waiting for an updated rom to be available to go back to in case something goes wrong while flashing a cooked rom, and it is only a matter of time before we can flash custom roms question is how long, I dont know how long I can handle the frustration of using this thing I installed IGO GPS yesterday and it would not run because of lack of memory so I think I am going back to the wizard until I can flash this dumb thing and by the way I don't think the T-mobile rep will come up with a solution but if he does please share it with us.

A lot of tweaking needed
I had to use Memmaid and move dll's to storage card and moved IE cache and email attachments to storage card too. Then I killed Live Search from the startup services as well as removed all things in the startup folder except services.lnk. I have two apps on the today screen and I am booting up with 20mb's free. It took some time but this will be a temporary fix until new ROM's make it here.

Using the dumped rom from the thread in the mobile 6 forum I was able to change the pagepool to 4 as well as strip out most of t-mobile's junk. While stripping out the extras did help, i'm not convinced that changing the pagepool will help. It certainly did increase the amount of free ram (27 at start dropping and hovering at 19 after several days) however I started noticing weird issues that I hadn't noticed with a 12 mb pagepool. Things like the today screen not refreshing or the wlan not starting. I'm think some of the device drivers may need to stay resident in the pagepool for normal functionality.
Overall, I've switched back to the 12 mb pagepool and everything works perfectly. The amount of free ram does get pretty low (around 4 mb) after opening all my programs but everything will still operate normally. I suspect the number reported may be somewhat misleading (like linux and vista) where it is using your free ram for caching purposes. Again i am basing this off the fact that everything will still load and work normally with low reported free ram. This is just a very long way to say that changing pagepool may introduce a new set of problems.

dll
kevinwatson5 said:
I had to use Memmaid and move dll's to storage card and moved IE cache and email attachments to storage card too. Then I killed Live Search from the startup services as well as removed all things in the startup folder except services.lnk. I have two apps on the today screen and I am booting up with 20mb's free. It took some time but this will be a temporary fix until new ROM's make it here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
did u move all the dll's to the storage card on the tmobile wing?

interesting, I tried runing IGO nav and it reported an error saying it needed 6MB of memory to run I had to soft reset to get it to work, last night I installed SKTools and did some more tweeking with it and gained about 2MB of memory but not much I am wondering if the rom has some memory leaks somewhere because I can't even fin what apps are using so much memory at start up I got rid of most of them the only one I cant get rid of it the myfavs.

ericizzy1 said:
did u move all the dll's to the storage card on the tmobile wing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not all dlls will move like the omap and a few system dll's but I moved almost 8 I think, depends on how many apps you have installed too. I uninstalled some of the system software like oz im and tmobile mail wizard and had all of them running off the storage card too. I am getting 20mb free upon bootup and all the things are working as far as I know.

hi
kevinwatson5 said:
not all dlls will move like the omap and a few system dll's but I moved almost 8 I think, depends on how many apps you have installed too. I uninstalled some of the system software like oz im and tmobile mail wizard and had all of them running off the storage card too. I am getting 20mb free upon bootup and all the things are working as far as I know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if u could only tell me which dll's(that came installed on the wing) u moved, it will be great.

dll's
I moved everyone that Memmaid would allow me to move, the ones that were in use could not be moved and that was only a couple.

Here's what I did and I have like 15mb to spare
I did a hard reset on my Wing - then, when T-mo's customizations started/tried to run, I did a soft reset (thus preventing their installation).
From this point I installed any and everything that i wished to have on my phone
(in my case this consisted of: total Commander; Sleuth's WM6VOIP; HTC Home Plug Today Plugin; RvBCrS HTC Startup animation; A_C Slide2Unlock; Chi-Tai Dang batteryStatus TD-Plugin; T-Mobile Soft Key Applet; PPCSoft psShutXP; HTC Audio Manager; The Equinoxe Wizard Retouched Dialer2; and By Boto XDA-Developers HTC Touch Comm Manager)
As you can see, I installed a lot of stuff and still I have sufficient room left on my device. will say that inevitably you may want to reset your device about once a day or so - because it appears to slow down and lose memory over time, but all in all it's no worse than my MDA ever was, plus I still have my MDA if I missed it that much (Which I don't).

xander803 said:
Using the dumped rom from the thread in the mobile 6 forum I was able to change the pagepool to 4 as well as strip out most of t-mobile's junk. While stripping out the extras did help, i'm not convinced that changing the pagepool will help. It certainly did increase the amount of free ram (27 at start dropping and hovering at 19 after several days) however I started noticing weird issues that I hadn't noticed with a 12 mb pagepool. Things like the today screen not refreshing or the wlan not starting. I'm think some of the device drivers may need to stay resident in the pagepool for normal functionality.
Overall, I've switched back to the 12 mb pagepool and everything works perfectly. The amount of free ram does get pretty low (around 4 mb) after opening all my programs but everything will still operate normally. I suspect the number reported may be somewhat misleading (like linux and vista) where it is using your free ram for caching purposes. Again i am basing this off the fact that everything will still load and work normally with low reported free ram. This is just a very long way to say that changing pagepool may introduce a new set of problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it possible to use an empty extended rom to stop some of those problems???

Just want to share the info on solving the problem with the Wing mem problem.
I read and followed the instruction HERE. I have set the cache mem to 6mb. I now always have 11-15mb available and the phone is responsive. And the phone is been going strong for 2 days.

dangtong said:
Just want to share the info on solving the problem with the Wing mem problem.
I read and followed the instruction HERE. I have set the cache mem to 6mb. I now always have 11-15mb available and the phone is responsive. And the phone is been going strong for 2 days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you running in background??????
I have 26MB free while SPB mobile shell, today agenda and batterystatus are running - and 22MB when activesync is connected!
BUT i have the terra. But even without pagepoolchanging i had 20MB free. After all programs are installed.
So what are you running?????

got 8 free and only Mobile shell, Phone Suit and Weather running
**** this device

page pool explanation

Hi all,
I'm trying to figure out what affect page pool sizes have on program memory. I understand that the larger the pagepool, the smaller the program ram. I understand, the larger the page pool, the "faster" the ROM operates since the pagepool is used as a pseudo-ram/cache for the OS.
However, Does anything else besides the Windows OS use the page pool memory? Can third party applications use the page pool?
Also, Because I have the HTC prophet which is known to be very limited in available RAM, I'm curious why sometimes I can't load third party input methods like calligrapher or tengo even when I have 15-20 megs of available program ram. Does the pagepool have some affect on this? This also seems linked to the today plugins since if I disable the today plugins, i can sometimes load calligrapher. Is the available ram split up between SIP (soft input panel) and today plugins vs. regular third party applications?
Thanks,

hheh 15-20 mb free ram?
man, change ROM...
btw, i never seen program, that cant be launched with 4 mb pp..
more = waste.

so a 4mb pp is best for freeing up ram for apps like calligrapher and today plugins... Does anyone know first hand whether a rom with only 4mb pp will be unbearably slow for things like loading /windows directory in file explorer?
Thanks,

I just switched to a 4MB PP on my Herald from a 12MB one. So far I am very happy. The amount of time is took to access the Windows folder was cut by more than 5sec. It only takes 3seconds max to load it up now.

thanks for http://www.roguegovernment.com/, and your avatar, God bless Canada.

neptune said:
I just switched to a 4MB PP on my Herald from a 12MB one. So far I am very happy. The amount of time is took to access the Windows folder was cut by more than 5sec. It only takes 3seconds max to load it up now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait, What??
Reducing the pagepool will *increase* performance? not decrease it?
Isn't there a trade off at some point? I thought reducing the pp will decrease performance but increase program ram?

nothin said:
thanks for http://www.roguegovernment.com/, and your avatar, God bless Canada.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Canada aint such a saint either but I'll take it over the US anyday. Did you know that some of the worst scientific tests from Project MKUltra were carried out in Canada under order from the American Military.These two governments go hand in hand. All the unwilling Canadian participants were drugged with LSD, run through ElectroSchock, and a whole load of sad experiments. I could go on all day about Government corruption, but when it comes down to it I'm all against it; and the only way to win a "war" against the government is by spreading the word of its wrong doings. SO whoever reads this thread pass this website along.
WWW.roguegovernment.com
ps: I know this ain't about PPC's but spread the word.
pps: if you havent already watch documentary Loose Change, then I'm sure that this website will be on your bookmark list.

mr_yellow said:
Wait, What??
Reducing the pagepool will *increase* performance? not decrease it?
Isn't there a trade off at some point? I thought reducing the pp will decrease performance but increase program ram?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends on your definition of peformance. Reducing page pool will speed up a few things on your device, it may also slow down a few things. However if you benchmark your device on sktools or similar then you will notice that greater page pool gives marginly better results.
Given that it is very simple to alter page pool I suggest that those wondering about the effects of page pool trial different page pool values and then note the subtle differences until they find a compromise.

mr_yellow said:
Hi all,
I'm trying to figure out what affect page pool sizes have on program memory. I understand that the larger the pagepool, the smaller the program ram. I understand, the larger the page pool, the "faster" the ROM operates since the pagepool is used as a pseudo-ram/cache for the OS.
However, Does anything else besides the Windows OS use the page pool memory? Can third party applications use the page pool?
Also, Because I have the HTC prophet which is known to be very limited in available RAM, I'm curious why sometimes I can't load third party input methods like calligrapher or tengo even when I have 15-20 megs of available program ram. Does the pagepool have some affect on this? This also seems linked to the today plugins since if I disable the today plugins, i can sometimes load calligrapher. Is the available ram split up between SIP (soft input panel) and today plugins vs. regular third party applications?
Thanks,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wm5 had problems with multiple SIPs which has been sorted out in WM6,
if you are still on wm5 upgrade to wm6...if you have wm6 and still have this problem then try searching for PQIIz and if possible change your rom

Hi All,
Thanks for all the new replies. It really helps!
Concerning wm5 vs wm6: I am running a wm6 rom, in fact it's a rom built on the latest available build of wm6 so as far as I know, it's "up to date". But even with running wm6, I still have problems loading third party SIPs. Right after a reset, it's fine. But after a few hours or days of uptime, they'll fail to load. Even things like HTC phone pad (which i had to install seperately) won't load up.
Also, I can't find anything about PQIIz. As far as I can tell from the small references here and there, it's a utility that manages freeing memory and closing apps. What's the full name of this app?
Going back to the pagepool discussion: I wish I could experiement with the pagepool size but I'm no rom cook.. =( One day I'll get there.
Sigh.. back to flashing i guess. =/

mr_yellow said:
Hi All,
Going back to the pagepool discussion: I wish I could experiement with the pagepool size but I'm no rom cook.. =( One day I'll get there.
Sigh.. back to flashing i guess. =/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you do not need to cook to change.. just hexedit nbf..
btw, freeing mem app - oxios memory module hibernate.
About Canada and USA - Canada never destroyed other country, you know..(end of OT).

Someone (somewhere in one of these forums) mentioned that Microsoft's recommended "optimal" pagepool size was 4.5MB. I just assumed there had to be something wrong with that since my Dell Axim's OEM roms were set to 12MB pagepools. But perhaps there is some basis for a 4.5MB pagepool. I guess I will try it one of these days and see--unless someone else has already tried it on an Axim (X50v) and can give me an idea of performance results.

i would guess that ms dont have an optimal general pagepool
as it would depend on the transfer speed of the storage
compared to the speed of the ram

Rudegar said:
i would guess that ms dont have an optimal general pagepool
as it would depend on the transfer speed of the storage
compared to the speed of the ram
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the best thing still is just to try several different pagepool sizes and pick the one that seems to have the most even balance of speed between various tasks/programs?

Does the process for changing the page pool size depend on the device? I found these instructions for changing pagepool for wizard roms:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=ChangingPagePoolofWizardWM6Roms
Are there any other factors I need to take into account before manually modifying a custom rom I did not build?

quick bump...
I'm still confused about the affects of pagepool and speed of OS and amount of program ram...
So my rom has 8mb pp. loading /windows takes only 4 seconds. I also get problems loading calligrapher, phonepad, and today plugins. I've had other roms with i think 12mb pp. loadinig /windows takes like 8-10 seconds with that and I don't recall any problems with loading 3rd party input method. I don't think i've ever tried a 4mb pp rom.
So from what I've experienced.
12mb pp:
slower OS (loading /windows is slow)
can load more input methods and today plugins
less program ram???
8mb pp:
faster OS (loading /windows is fast)
can NOT load more input methods and today plugins
more program ram?
4mb pp:
faster OS (loading /windows is ???)???
can NOT load more input methods and today plugins???
most program ram???

I have set the pagepool on my Diamond to 0Mb - very fast for all tasks. I used the tool in this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=323269
But I am confused still. In the above linked thread they talk of 0mb being the fastest, but you guys are talking about more than 0mb. A very steep learning curve for me

http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2005/11/17/494177.aspx
that should help you

The Page Pool
Applications use RAM in two ways. There is code that runs, and there is data that is created while it is running. On a NOR device, the code can run directly from the ROM and not be loaded into RAM first. This process is called XIP (eXecute In Place). NAND devices can't XIP, so their code is loaded into RAM and executed from there. If you don't have a Page Pool, this code is loaded into normal RAM. The Page Pool is a mechanism to limit how much code is loaded into normal RAM. With a Page Pool, we can unload code that hasn't been used in a while and reload it later if we need to. We can't do that without a Page Pool.
On a typical NAND-based WM5 device, the Page Pool is 4.5M.
Taken from here.

i seen, a couple of roms that had a pagepool editor in the zip file

A though on making the Tilt 2 faster

As I've been redoing everything on my phone I realized that there is "separate" memory from storage and for program usage (aka the RAM). For storage there is 226MB and for Program there is 187MB.
I was thinking, with 187MB, the phone maxes out pretty quickly with all the stuff running on it, and sense usually tells us that it's above 60%. Well, can't we just reduce the storage memory and use it towards the RAM? To elaborate more, can't we shift the memory for the programs to become say 126MB and make the Program ram into 287MB? I mean I can do with 125MB for programs or even less if I plug in my storage card. Is this even feasible? Also I'm sorry in advance if this is in the wrong section!

this would be great!

Sure i have seen that asked some where before and the answer was no on that occasion

I dont believe that would make the processor work better inside these devices in this case. When programs and such r pulled up, its done in bits and pieces of info from different files within the internal memory. Its like having a file box and having either all of ur files just crammed inside, or having them seperated into "files". That way the programs know which files to open so they can bring up the programs faster instead of having to search through billions of bits they r broken down so the programs know just which files to search in.
I may be wrong, yet thats just my opinion.

Just use the OS and Sense our phones were meant to use; Windows Mobile 6.1 and Sense 2.1.
I never run out of RAM and on a clean reboot with Wisbar running and Sense, it only says I use about 36% RAM.

buru898 said:
Just use the OS and Sense our phones were meant to use; Windows Mobile 6.1 and Sense 2.1.
I never run out of RAM and on a clean reboot with Wisbar running and Sense, it only says I use about 36% RAM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The phone came with 6.5 and the new sense when I got it, can I downgrade it to 6.1?

It is not possible to use storage memory as RAM.
WM uses Volatile Memory as RAM (like a computer).
dwizzy130

csmeance said:
The phone came with 6.5 and the new sense when I got it, can I downgrade it to 6.1?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes u can. Find the specific ROM u would like to use and see if its 6.1 or 6.5. The easiest way to do this is the download number. If it start with 21XXX then its most likely 6.1 if it starts with 23XXX then its most likely 6.5. Now heres where it gets a bit confusing... theres also a 6.5.3 and 6.5.5 ... If u have any questions most of the chefs on here r easy to talk to and will answer any questions u may have. Find a ROM u like, post a question in that forum (look to make sure that question hasnt been answered before u ask it.) and u will get ur answers.
Other answers can be found here... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=550540

My Viewsonic V37 PDA running WinMo 3 has the ability to do this. There is a slider you can adjust for more RAM and less storage or vice-versa.

Miami_Son said:
My Viewsonic V37 PDA running WinMo 3 has the ability to do this. There is a slider you can adjust for more RAM and less storage or vice-versa.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes because it uses volatile memory for both storage and RAM. The downside of that is whatever data is stored on the memory will be erased unless it is saved elsewhere. That's why they stopped using this technique in 2003.
dwizzy130

oddly, how come I only has a bout 178 total ram for program

PUTALE said:
oddly, how come I only has a bout 178 total ram for program
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OS is loaded into the rest of it.

would a RAM drive be an alternative, and would it help?
Thinking back to pagefiles, and Ram drives on PC's, always increased the functional speed of those machines

How come no one has mentioned Virtual RAM? I suppose using part of the device memory as a temporary space for random access memory and clearing it on boot would work fine? I mean it worked for my ancient Windows 95 box, which had worse specs than my current phone anyways.

I dont use Sense 2.1 or 2.5
SPB Mobile Shell is, IMO, not only better, but a magnitude of times faster, more stable, and better battery life.
Now granted, SPB Mobile Shell has no where NEAR the eye candy that Sense 2.5 (or even 2.1) and all their various customized flavors have.. but thats the bottom line trade off.
You can either get speed, reliability, stability, battery life, or you can get crazy eye candy. You cant get both.
I loaded SPB Mobile Shell using NRG's latest Sense 2.1 build, then disabled Sense. That way, if i need Sense I can switch pretty easily, but after about 3 or 4 days using Mobile Shell, I dont think I'll ever go back.