Database Users

Which would suit me better? htc touch hd vs iphone

THIS IS A THREAD FOR CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK AND UNBIASED OPINIONS. IF IT DOESN'T APPLY TO YOU, PLEASE HIT "BACK".
Hi, im currently waiting for the Touch HD, but the past few days have posed many questions with much criticism going on about HTC's new flagship product. This has brought up the idea again, whether i should go for the iphone. Im no fan boy and i would value anything thats factual and unbiased.
this are my most important needs for the phone off the hat, in order of importance.
1) text messaging. i need a good keypad to message and such. i know the touch hd uses a resistive and the iphone a capacitive. but bearing in mind that the resistive screen used by the touch hd is by far the best, is it really far of from the iphone? If the apple gets a score of 100%, what would the touch hd's touch screen get?
(i sorta do MMS messaging at times too)
2) web browsing, the easy of web browsing is kinda important. less the navigation but more of page viewing. this is where the 3.8" screen comes as a huge plus. i know navigation on the iphone is more user friendly, but in terms of amt of information in a scree, is the touch hd much better?
3) videos. just one question, can the touch hd watch SMOOTH and CLEAR videos with the correct codes and resolution(reasonable size please)?
4) extra stuffs. i know that WM has many 3rd party software out there, much more than the iphone. ignoring the design and such, does the boundless quantity of software provide sufficiently functionality as compared to what the app store offers?
5) the occasional picture. iphone or touch hd? in terms of speed and quality.
Edit: I do have tons of time on my hands to tweak the Touch HD to my liking and such. lol.
(Just gotta wait for it to be out in Singapore...)
Note: I dont appreciate flaming nor do i feel i deserve any :/

Look up in this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443504
1) no answer cos I dont have my HD yet
2) same as 1)
3) use Core Player v1.2.5 and it will work out of the box
4) Absolutely...Wait another month and you will find plenty of stuff exclusively for the HD. Thats xda any people in here are outstanding
Hope could at least help a little.
Ascenca

Sounds like the HD will be more up your street.
I think you'll probably get bored of the iphone interface after a while (with the HD you'll be able to customise and tailor it to your needs)
I'm waiting for my HD to be delivered within the next 2 days (fingers crossed), but according to the slashgear review, the HD has the best resistive touch screen available (almost on par with the iphone).
The touch experience is extended over to Opera so should make web browsing a doddle.
Plus you can play high res div-x videos smoothly - not sure about other formats.
Here's the review - http://www.slashgear.com/htc-touch-hd-slashgear-review-part-2-0721942/
With respect to camera quality - it'll have to be the HD as you've got a 5MP camera (i know pixel resolution isn't the only factor for measuring quality but it has to beat the iphones 2mp) plus you'll also get more options on how you want to capture images not to mention the video recording ability.
Hope that helps !

I've had both (got the first iPhone when it came out in the US and got rid of it a month later for various reasons - mainly things that it just didn't do well or at all that I really need from a phone) - but I was struck with the UI and how good it was (the capacitive touchscreen I guess basically and how polished the visuals were supporting it)
Anyway, I've never really understood this ludicrous 'fan' loyalty mentality [over EITHER brand]- it's an effing phone, it's not like a member of my close family make them or anything.........anyway....I digress....I can't answer all your questions, as one or 2 are a little technical and require more detail than I can provide I tihnk - plus I've only had the HD a few days and so I've not managed to try certain things (will try video in a sec though
1. Txt messaging .... '=IF IPHONE=100%,TOUCH_HD=97%,IMO' ;-) (seriously - it's v. good, I think so anyway)
2. Screen 'volume' browsing advantage - it tips a little in favour of the HD for obvious reasons - not much in it really though - definintion is fantastic on the HD
Jumping to 5. The HD just gets it I think - speed is about the same IIRC but the screen definition on the HD blows the iphone away (and anything else I've seen quite frankly, including the diamond, if only because it has a smaller version of the same screen and was a bit flickery on the brightness)
HTH
FWIW - I really do like the iphone...but.....it just lets itself down badly on several points for me at this stage - it may get to the point in a couple of gen's time where it becomes a contender for me again - but IF I can get ANDROID onto my HD [oh please oh please oh please....] ....I feel the bar will be set waaaaay up high - too high in fact!

so the touch HD can be said to be more "open sourced", especially with lots more apps and such out there?

Stelixus said:
so the touch HD can be said to be more "open sourced", especially with lots more apps and such out there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh certainly. But not just the apps, also the ROMs, radios, unlockers, SPLs and all the other stuff the geniuses here dabble in.
One more factor to think about is the actual time and energy you want to spend on your phone. Buying the HD (or any WM phone) and participating in XDA-Devs is a dangerous recipe. Most people I see on here (myself included) don't just set up their phones and live happily ever after. It is a never-ending and frustratingly enjoyable experience trying to make the phone work exactly like you want it to.
The iphone on the other hand, just works. But probably not exactly like you want it to

Having owned both... (well still owning HD now and it's a keeper so yes I am slightly biased):
Stelixus said:
1) text messaging. i need a good keypad to message and such. i know the touch hd uses a resistive and the iphone a capacitive. but bearing in mind that the resistive screen used by the touch hd is by far the best, is it really far of from the iphone? If the apple gets a score of 100%, what would the touch hd's touch screen get?
(i sorta do MMS messaging at times too)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For typing, the differences between any touchscreen become much smaller as all you do is press your finger down on an area contrary to sliding and brushing and such. The HD types better in that regard as there is more keyboard options (I really dig suretype) and even on similar keyboards (qwerty) the HD utilizes the additional screen height with some additional controls.
To answer the other question: well both screens are 100% to me, maybe the HD is 98%... The differences in responsiveness are so damn small I can barely tell. Behaves a little differently though, mostly depending on UI differences, not screen differences. But the HD has a sharper, cleaner presentation and both UIs are very good, so I prefer the HD, by a small margin.
Stelixus said:
2) web browsing, the easy of web browsing is kinda important. less the navigation but more of page viewing. this is where the 3.8" screen comes as a huge plus. i know navigation on the iphone is more user friendly, but in terms of amt of information in a scree, is the touch hd much better?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HD hands down. The huge screen and high sharpness are all major criteria for me, and this is mainly why I chose the HD (and why it has its name ). Navigation on the iPhone is barely more user friendly, multitouch is nice for pictures but annoying/overrated for browsing... I really prefer the doubletap.
There is not much more information on the HD screen as only the widescreen factor gets you more info, but because of the super resolution it is a lot sharper and thus you don't need to zoom in as much to get readible pages. In fact, I do global reading/site skimming without zooming in at all. Iphone won't let you do that as easily.
Stelixus said:
3) videos. just one question, can the touch hd watch SMOOTH and CLEAR videos with the correct codes and resolution(reasonable size please)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I watch DivX mostly on it, using 800MB and 1,5GB files. I use coreplayer, perfect for me... I don't do benchmarks so I can't tell you the scientific performance, but if I see razor sharp 800*480 and smooth playback movies with super fast seeking, I'm happy.
Stelixus said:
4) extra stuffs. i know that WM has many 3rd party software out there, much more than the iphone. ignoring the design and such, does the boundless quantity of software provide sufficiently functionality as compared to what the app store offers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would not let the WinMo platform cloud judgement here. The Apple App Store is huge and only getting bigger each day, it's got great developer support. Don't buy into WinMo because of applications. IPhone has got apps for anything you need, just like WinMo, biggest difference is that WinMo has 10 apps for anything you need, so you got more choice
However, WinMo is much, much MUCH more customizable. Like I said WinMo has 10 apps for each IPHone 1 app, well it's like you got 10 OS versions contrary to 1 as well... WinMo is a broad term and IPhone OS is always the same damn thing, and all these kids got the same apps on their phones
Stelixus said:
5) the occasional picture. iphone or touch hd? in terms of speed and quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC, Apple, Blackberry... Don't buy these brands for good camera, but yes, occasional picture, it's fine. You get the same quality from an IPhone and a HD, but the HD picture is much bigger (5MP contrary to 2MP), but sensor quality does not differ much.
But... Here comes WinMo again... Of course the HD camera lets you do 10 times as much as an IPhone cam, making it more suitable for the occasional picture.

larsuck said:
The iphone on the other hand, just works. But probably not exactly like you want it to
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True for the most part, well, it works ... But many software updates were required to get there Bad call reception (still an issue), locked OS features because they simply weren't ready yet, temporary freezes, lockups, horrible battery life.... It reminds us that Apple phones are made by the same mere mortals that would make any other phone

and most imporant of all, with HD you have Voice Command available. There is nothing even remotely close on Iphone i have htc x7500 and iphone. HD coming tommorow

Opinion before devorcing my beloved Touch HD

Ok guys just trying to get opinions out there. Currently using the Touch HD. Came from a Nokia device so I love the speed of symbian compared to Windows. It seems like the time has come for me to figure out if I want to keep the Touch HD or not.
Pro:
I love the big screen.
It looks sleek.
Easy to flashfirmware and tweaking performance is fun.
Con:
Incoming calls is a little laggy. Sometimes calls come in as unknown.
Phone feels a slower than ones I've used before.
No TV-Out.
*Having a keyboard would be a plus. But without it is not a Con*
I'm actually debating getting rid of the Touch HD for either the Xperia X1i/X1a so I would gain a keyboard and overall use would stay the same.
Or I thought about getting the Nokia 5800 tube, so that I gain the TV-Out feature to display gps on my indash and have the feel of symbian again.
Or ultimate would be to get the new n97 which has a large screen and keyboard.
What do you guys think? I think the biggest thing bothering me is the phone feelings a bit laggy compared to my previous nokia phones.

try keyboard in landscape mode man it works very well.
incomoingcall work well to me too.
after using it i dont wanna come back with symbyan anymore

Sorry but you knew it had no keyboard when you got it so if it is a "con" and not a "pro", why did you get it in the first place?

well then I guess I should list it as a neutral thing. I would like a full keyboard, but I'm satisfied with the compact querty at the moment. So good call tboy.

I dunno, going to the X1 isn't going to do much for you other than the physical keyboard. It sounds like love Symbian so maybe just wait for the N97.

I have both Nokia n95 an htc HD, HD is much better! 1 thing above all: HD is fully customizable, and you can improve it with new official roms or with a lot of cooked roms.......

Hello
I have the HD and the Nokia Tube.
The Nokia Tube is crap.
Slow as hell, and the worst GUI i have ever seen.

Flash a few cooked roms first... see if that makes your HD the device you always wanted...

do you recomend any?

I also own a n95 and the hd, and the nokia is no match for the hd in any aspect. Once you get used to the hd big screen and lots of features, you wonder how you could waste your money in the nokia set.
The hd is fairly fast for me, the gps works much better than the n95's. It fully customizable, the battery lasts longer, the rds radio of the hd is much better that the visual radio of the n95 (in Spain the rds system is spread all around the country while the visual radio is scarcely used), there's a lot of sotware available for the hd... in summary, i would't change it.
But each user asks for different features so...that's just my opinion.

Cheeze[iT] said:
well then I guess I should list it as a neutral thing. I would like a full keyboard, but I'm satisfied with the compact querty at the moment. So good call tboy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could try SPB Full Keyboard

Symbian UI sux the biggest time ever!!!!
There is no Symbian or Nokia I have ever tried that is nice or fast, the N96 is a piece of s..t! I stompted on the damn thing into pieces, seriously, kept freezing and the menu's are a nightmare, menu's within menus within more menus.... The "cons" you mentioned are nothing compared to any Symbian.
"TV Out" its a gimic function of Samsung and Nokia, the quality of TV Out function is way way below VHS quality making it a whole waste of time IMHO, anyway just my 2 cents in a useless topic.
Perhaps Symbian seems more suited to your needs

I went shopping for a new HTC device yesterday.
I looked at the Diamond, Touch Pro, Xperia X1, G1 and the Touch HD.
I found the Diamond's screen size to adequate, but the lack of storage card baffles me.
The Touch Pro was just to heavy but the keyboard was very useable + storage card.
The Xperia's keyboard felt better, but the weight killed it for me. The screen is also far too small to handle WVGA.
The G1's 16million colurs makes the same difference with the screen as an iPod. HTC really should move to 16M colours asap. The interface was great, but you can tell it is in its infancy. I will be watching Android keenly over the next year.
Then we have the HD :
The screen size makes a huge difference - 3.8" WVGA is the perfect size for this res (2.8" is borderline too small).
The device is the exact same size as the iPhone (I think the box matches Apple's packaging as well...) This fits nicely in the hand and feels very light.
The screen size also helps with finger inputs, even on the standard keyboard!
The device is fast. I found no lag running through the programs, even while leaving 10 open. The 512Mb RAM certainly helps there.
A hardware keyboard for me is a con. When I moved to one (XDA Mini S), I found it strange to get used, but percivered, when I moved back to an onscreen keyboard, I certainly did not miss the physical kb.
After playing with all 5 devices, I have payed up for the HD.
It'll be delivered on Tuesday.

MrAce87 said:
do you recomend any?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
davideuck, believe me!

Thanks for input guys,
I do like the ability to flash new roms as I am trying to keep up with Laurentius26 and the L26 roms. It seems the V7 seems to be pretty responsive. As far as the tube VS touch HD Speed comparison, thanks for the info.
On the TV-Out feature, I would only use it to display GPS on my indash so I can easily get around by getting a decent car mount I guess. I've been keeping up with that thead and haven't found one I liked yet.
Bringing up the point that symbian isn't as customizable friendly I guess it would advantage me to stay with the touch so that I can always flash different roms and see which I like better. And between the Xperia and the Touch HD, thats going to be a hard button keyboard VS big screen.
Now to go read up on some more interesting apps/games to install. Thanks again guys! Keep the input coming if you like! I appreciate it.

My first post here at xda, so forgive me while i get used to it ;-)
the touch hd is quite impressive as allrounder. i'm more than a little jealous of the screen compared to my own omnia.
but omnia is till my personal choise of today; huge internal memore (i currently use 16 gig + 16 gig sdhc) although it's 3.5mm jack is indirect, if does come as adapter in the sales box. it is a bit fatter than the hd though but not too much- 12.5mm. and it has the tv out u mentioned. anyway it is to my taste right now.
if u have the patience for future model i found some interresting ones here:
http://www.gsmarena.com/the_8_megapixel_samsung_i8910_records_hd_video_ready_to_roll-news-776.php
it seems the next generation of omnia. though rumor has it that it'll be running symbian instaid of wm... and by now i have gotten stuck on wm and its flexibillity. i'm not sure that i can go back. still if u look at its specks they doo make my mouth water- heh he.
http://www.gsmarena.com/toshiba_unleashes_the_tg01__the_ubersmartphone_to_rule_them_all-news-768.php
this one is a pure wm platform wich seems to leave even hd trailiang in the dust. but remember that with a screen as big as 4.1 inches u may need to resow your pockets in all shirts and pants. still size matters when using gui's and you hd is already a good example there.
none of them packs a built-in thumpboard though. for that u may need to to go n97, touch pro, xperia, HTC dream or G1. i've no experience with android yet. but as for wm's i hear experia is annoyingly slow, and if u already have trouble with the speed of the HD u may need to stay far away from this one. all of them packs better screenresolutions than omnia, but the benefits of higher resolution without bigger screen on these devices is argueable. on 3.2 inches i don't miss the extra pixels on windows mobile.
a good thing might be if others told about their experiences with various models. my dad for one would never trade in his HD for my omnia. but if i had to buy a new one today i'd still choose it over the others out there.
needs and tastes differ.

a little off toppic- sorry.
does anyone know if if it possible to mod s60-5th the same way as SPB and PointUI does it for wm? my only experience with it is n93 wich i kept as my primary for one and a half years. never thought of costumizing it though. and i've fallen in love with it on wm.

Cheeze,
I have the same problem.
X1 will have the same problem in terms of the lag.
keyboards are good, but you dont need them as much, you need to get use to the touch screen... give it more time...
If you want something just as good as the HD with no Lag, go iphone, but then you drop alot of good things with the HD.
i did at first contemplate selling off the HD and going in for the iphone, but i have used the iphone, and liked it for the whole 2 months i had it before i went to a smaller phone... and then to the HD...
the iphone was basic to what i needed it for, the hd works perfectly...
let me tell you, after 3 months, you will be fine with the hd, but the lag will increase... especially in calls... and if you are like me.. with an ever increaseing phone book addess list.. it doesnt help... due to work, my phone book is now at 500+, and that was after cutting it down due to the financial crises...
in all likelyhood i will go back to the iphone depending on what the next update is in July.. then in august will truely decide....

I to went from the HD to the iphone. I do miss the big screen and badass resolution but after a few weeks and jail breaking i dont even think about the hd or windows mobile for that matter.

Im currently looking to move from my Nokia E90 to The HD. I have never used a HD before so i cannot comment on it, but the Symbian email system is awful which is one of the reasons that im looking to move away from Symbian.
I have looked at the 5800 but it will be a "downgrade" from my E90. Also the N97 does look good but it only has 3 rows with the numbers intergrated into the top "qwerty" row.
That totally puts me off it

iPhone speed...is it possible on the Touch HD?

Guys,
Never ever wanted to even bother about iPhone due to the fact that WinMo devices have almost endless custom apps available and tweaks etc.
That said...I played/fiddled with a mates iPod touch today and the speed at which animation took place and the scrolling of files was immensely smooth.
Anyone recommend any tweaks to help make the Touch HD run this smooth?

Wiggz said:
Guys,
Never ever wanted to even bother about iPhone due to the fact that WinMo devices have almost endless custom apps available and tweaks etc.
That said...I played/fiddled with a mates iPod touch today and the speed at which animation took place and the scrolling of files was immensely smooth.
Anyone recommend any tweaks to help make the Touch HD run this smooth?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buy an iphone 3GS!

Come on...seriously. Can the HD not perform to that level then?

You could try flashing a new ROM??

There's a huge difference between "smoothness" and "speed"!
While the iPhone's UI is VERY smooth, it's actually slower than the Touch HD (for the iPhone 3G, the 3GS is now a bit faster due to the Cortex A8 processor architecture).
The level of smoothness depends on the software. While Windows Mobile was designed for slow hardware and therefore is pretty fast on newer devices, it was not designed for finger use and therefore doesn't feature that smooth kinetic scrolling and nice animations.
Sorry, but you can't have an interface that's as "nice looking" as the iPhone's for now, though I think TouchFlo is already pretty good and leaves little to be desired.
Also, try out Miri's or Dutty's WM6.5 ROM and you'll at least get that smooth kinetic scrolling and bigger, nicer looking list items.
The iPhone's interface may look nice and smooth, but it's actually less practical for "professional" use because you don't have multitasking, you only get a bunch of icons, you've got to go back to the homescreen every time you want to switch between applications and there's no good solution for notifications (like the top bar on WM).

I agree - I'm not disputing that Touch HD is a better unit for professionals...and indeed myself...I'm just trying to get the smoothness to rival it.

Have you tried WM6.5? Microsoft has added kinetic scrolling to it.

No, I'm trying to stay with stock ROM

Then you must replace the default WM applications with "smoother" ones. I've made a package with finger friendly applications a while ago:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=473116&highlight=finger+friendly
You can use applications like ThumbCal, Kinoma Play, iContact etc. and make them the default ones via the registry.
The package is a bit outdated and I don't use it anymore because with WM6.5 and the newest TouchFlo it's not necessary.

Wiggz,
I spend the last hour doing my homework and I've found some useful tweaks that speeds up the interface a little bit.
First and foremost, read through this thread.
Having said that, I suggest you use some form of registry explorer and look for the following things.
FontCache / Glyphcache - Located at
HKLM\SYSTEM\GDI\GLYPHCACHE\
The limit should be 8192, if not, record that number and keep it somewhere so that if it doesn't turn out to be stable for you, you can revert it. Change this limit to 65536.
File System Cache - Located at
HKLM\System\StorageManager\FATFS\CacheSize
The limit should be 0 by default. Change this value to 8192. Also, in the same section, you'll see something called EnableCache. The value of that should be 1, if it's 0, change it to 1 to enable file system cache.
File System Filter Cache - Located at
HKLM\System\StorageManager\Filters\fsreplxfilt\ReplStoreCacheSize
The limit should be 0 by default as well. Change this value to 131072.
After doing these settings, do a soft reset and see what happens? Noticeable differences should be seen in Opera. If you find that you get instability as a result of these cache differences, simply reduce the numbers by dividing them by 2 (e.g., 65536 > 32768).
I hope this helps you get that iPhone fluidity that you're looking for.
Cheers.
Credits goes to this thread by vincent1 and this thread by hyphen.

if you like iphone interface ... buy an iphone for dummies ....
HD is better faster and superior ....
if you want more speed and iphone interface install Vito winterface or better mobile shell 3 the iphone UI killer

You can also buy a Samsung Omnia 2: http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=5734
Looks pretty smooth, hm?

You can also buy a Samsung Omnia 2: http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=5734
Looks pretty smooth, hm?

The iPhone is indeed smoother and more fluid. There is no tweak, custom Rom or other today plugin that can give you the same experience and still deliver the ease, clean looks and functionality in one package. Believe me, I've tried them all and thus got an iPhone
In theory the HD might be faster, but in practice it isn't. WinMo is fundamentaly flawed in many ways. Graphicly 6.5 is a joke, that's why every manufacturer (samsung, HTC...) are trying so hard to cover it up. And let's not forget iPhone's 3D capabilities!
The HD had potential, but HTC and microsoft failed (again) IMO.
The amount of apps shouldn't be the reason to buy the HD. Many apps don't support WVGA and the iPhone's appstore has thousands of programs and is growing fast. Some free, some not. It's nice to see a lot of iPhone apps are far more 'creative' and utilize multitouch.

While the iPhone interface seems smoother at first glance, it is actually slower because there's no multitasking and you have to close the application you're in and go back to the home screen in order to launch another application. This slows down the workflow dramatically.
When I got the iPhone 3G, at first I also was stunned by how smooth the UI was, but after some weeks of using it, I realized that the UI was actually pretty ineffective because you can only have that bunch of icons, no information on the homescreen, no multitasking and there's no good solution for notifications.
While the WM interface looks a bit "old", it's actually more effective/productive in my opinion.
You should really try out Miri's or Dutty's latest WM6.5 ROMs, the new Manila is a lot better and the kinetic scrolling makes for a huge difference imo.

I agree that with the shipped ROM or with a badly configured ROM the Touch HD seems a little "stucky" and not that smooth or fast as an iPhone (and especially the 3GS). But have you tried some good cooked ROMs? Especially the new WM 6.5 releases are VERY fast and smooth.
Almost all my collegues own an iPhone (3G). In the beginning they laughed at me (they're all Apple addicts, I am the only PC user). But with every new ROM I flashed I astonished them more and more. Now two of them even sold their iPhones

maati,
You kept saying that iPhone 3G is slower and 3GS is only slightly faster. I find this not to be the case at all. My cousins has both 3G and 3GS and we sat down few days ago and did a side by side comparison surfing some websites. We're on the same network. Both 3G and 3GS beats my HD by miles in speed. 3G still beats mine but by not much but for 3GS the difference is very noticeable.
I'm still using stock ROM, but I'm not sure if ROM makes any difference to Opera mobile's speed.
The thing is, iPhone is fast out of the box, no tweaking is needed. Whereas I'm struggling still with the randomly non-reponding screen. I still find myself having to press very hard to activate actions on my HD. Sometimes nothing happens after 5 or 6 presses, then suddenly a rapid strings of reactions comes, and it overshot what I actually wanted to do. I had the same problem with my HTC advantage with its cook ROMs. Everytime I flash a new ROM, the desktop UI is fast (though it seldom have any influence on the underlying applications) for a while but it usually quickly deteriorate once more tweaking and softwares are loaded.
Not only that, when she showed me her applications and walk though with me some of the 65,000 applications in the apple store, I was just dumbfounded. I had always ridiculed her for not using what I had always believe to be the most superior phone, which to me was window mobile phones.
So to tell the truth, I'm lately extremely tempted to jump ship myself.

I was not talking about surfing the internet. This depends on where you are and which network you are on (e.g. where I live, the Touch HD is faster than the 3G, especially on fast HSDPA networks).
I was talking about stuff like opening applications, everyday tasks. The HD does them faster than the 3G, especially when you leave the applications running in the background. And even with lots of applications running in the background, the HD's battery life is significantly better.
Maybe it's because I know how to use it (e.g. don't press more than once on a button just because it doesn't react immediately) but I've got no problem with the responsiveness of the HD. I even think it's a bit better than on the iPhone where some applications are also pretty slugish (though the resistive screen needs more force). And my iPhone crashed at least as often as my Touch HD (I think about once in 2-3 weeks with no soft reset).
(btw. I'm talking only about the iPhone 3G which I used together with the Touch HD for some weeks. I only tried the 3GS once.)

IMO...
speed = yes
smoothness and fluidy = no
(there is a difference but WinMo is just not designed to be smooth overall like the iPhone)

Wiggz said:
Guys,
Never ever wanted to even bother about iPhone due to the fact that WinMo devices have almost endless custom apps available and tweaks etc.
That said...I played/fiddled with a mates iPod touch today and the speed at which animation took place and the scrolling of files was immensely smooth.
Anyone recommend any tweaks to help make the Touch HD run this smooth?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi Wiggz,
if u want a UI which has speed on WM6.1 then i recommend Point UI. it is finger friendly and the kinetic scrolling speed is great. with customizing it; there are a large no. of applets which r all free from the community page on their website
try it out...ive been using it for a while now and ill never go back to touch flo 3D. If u buy PointUI pro or find a cracked one somewhere then this increases the detachment from WM UI as u have a full contact card and no longer need 2 use Wm's ugly one. if u choose to download either version a great Applet mod is the Messaging Mod which lets u read ur SMS with out going to the WM app.

Anyone upgraded to HD2/Leo from HD/Blackstone?

I currently have a touch HD/Blackstone and I love it to bits, but the prospect of having a capacitive multitouch screen and much faster responses when navigating round the phone/opening/running apps etc is starting to tempt me very strongly to the HD2/Leo.
Have any of you Leo owners upgraded from the Blackstone? If so, please can you let me know your thoughts on whether it was a good move, what the pros & cons are etc, and whether the new phone really is super fast and slick like the reviews I've read say it is.
If I get one I'd probably want to be running SPB shell on it, which from looking through here I assume it works, but will most apps for the blackstone also work on the Leo?
I know there's no stylus with the Leo for instance, but for fiddly stuff does the screen accept the use of a fingernail for 'precision' (ish!) stuff like checkboxes & small menus, or does it have to be skin contact or a real capacitive stylus etc?
Regardless of whether you upgraded from a Blackstone, are you very pleased with the way the phone works in terms of performance and 'slickness'?
Last questions are - what's the video performance like on the Leo, ie does it have all the problems the HD has in terms of poor out of the box performance with video playback?
And is the bluetooth stuff still hardcoded for the HTC music player (like the blackstone), or would I be able to properly use my sony bluetooth headset to control the likes of coreplayer?
Sorry for all the questions - I really want to upgrade to the Leo, but it will cost me a lot and I don't want to make a mistake.
Many thanks for any useful replies!
Jim

After having the Touch HD for 2 month I really loved it. Everything was running as I wanted it to be ... But then HTC announced the HD2 and I decided to switch to it after watching lots of videos in youtube an other sites. I would do it again ...
I don't have any problems using the OS without a stylus. In fact I wasn't using the stylus or my fingernails on my Touch HD either. I only needed to adapt to the higher screen responsiveness, but that was it.
HD2 pros compared to the Touch HD:
+ MUCH higher build quality. The Touch HD always felt somehow cheap, except it actually wasn't ...
+ Everything is just faster. I wasn't too thrilled with TouchFLO 3D on the Touch HD, as it slowed down the device too much. No problems on the HD2, although the new version of TouchFLO 3D (Sense ...) grew in so many aspects and is now pretty well integrated into the OS.
+ The bigger screen. Didn't thing its a big deal, but the screen-difference between the two devices is astonishing. Its much more fun to use multimediacontent on the HD2.
+ Pinch to Zoom.

I had a HD for nearly a year now and loved it - yes, TF3D ran slowly but it also was more "form than function" and I stopped using it in favour of simple SPB Diary with multiple tabs.
Now having a HD2 for over a month I do love the high speed and slick operation and I even stick with TF3D (or HTC Sense, whatever it's called).
But, there are apps from HD that don't run well on the screen as they expect the precision of a stylus. One example is SPB Finance that I used to record all my expenditures on an almost daily business. This just does not work with a big fat finger !
But, but others work great - CoPilot works really nicely. I tried Route66 on the HD2 as this was a fully legal working purchase on the HD but on the new HD2 it's not good. Nice surprise is the new CoPilot works really well and super fast. Even indoors near a window I can get enough satellites for a 3D fix and moving next to the window gets 7 or 8 sats. HD never achieved that.
My build quality on the HD was fine. On the HD2 you get a real solid feel from the metal battery cover where you naturally hold the device.
HD2 is super quick but the capacitive screen is a weakness. However, this is because most applications have not yet caught up. Many exist that are great with fingers like Resco explorer but others expect a stylus and are hard to use.
As a year long HD user I doubt very much that I won't move back after having got the HD2. My old HD is sitting in a box and I have not been tempted to get it out !

Thanks for the replies guys - I like what I hear!
I think the only thing that might delay me upgrading to an HD2 is the difference in value between selling HD and buying HD2 but we'll see....
Can you clarify a couple of things I'm still not sure about though?
Dave - you said you can't use certain apps from the HD because of the capacitive screen as you don't have a stylus with it (and can't use a normal one I believe), but is it possible to use these apps with a finger nail if you really need to?
I know it might be awkward or not very practical, but I want to know whether it's actually possible at all, ie if the screen will physically work like that, or if it's literally impossible to do?
Secondly (don't get me wrong here) whilst I don't want an iphone, is the responsiveness of the HD2 screen the same kind of thing? Local shops here don't have one I can try so I have to go by what others tell me, and I'd like it to work as smooth as the iphone screen, ie no actual pressure etc.
I know it's capacitive so it should be like that but I don't know if there are differences aside from that to how the screen responds. Hope that makes sense!
Last question - I believe the screen is glass on it? Is it toughened in any way? Presume the fact that it's glass will mean that it's much harder to scratch than the HD screen and also means a clearer, brighter display by not having a resistive layer?
Thanks for the replies - I appreciate the info!

I'll try again but I don't think finger nails work ...

I upgraded from the Blackstone and for me, it was definitely worth it.
First thing you notice is the amazing speed if the device. I just saw that I had TomTom (among a couple of other programs) running in the background for several days and I didn't even notice it.
The HD2 is really insanely fast. I sometimes take my old Blackstone in order to try new WM builds, but its slowness makes me sick after some minutes of using it.
Next big thing, for me, is the camera. The light sensitivity has been greatly improved and the flash works stunningly good for an LED flash.
It takes really great pictures for a smartphone, much much better than the HD, finally I have a phone that lets me capture the important moments
(btw. the 'red tint bug' is present but not noticeable on most pictures)
Third thing is the screen. It''s capacitive, that means you can NOT use your fingernail, and no stylus. But I really like the sensitivity, it's much more comfortable to use. And it feels a lot better, it's not the 'cheap' feel of the resistive panel's plastic layers anymore.
And this brings me to the fourth and last point: Build quality. I've never ever seen such a high build quality and high quality materials on a phone. It looks and feels just amazing, even the iPhone feels like a cheap toy in comparison.
Video playback is of course a lot better and it plays high quality video without stuttering.

Well actualy you can use stylus without problems, you just have to buy a special one (whitch buy the way also works on the iPhone)
http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-DAGi-Stylus-...wItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item414b467e4a
Like they other says there are applications who can be a bit of a hassel with using with the finger...
But I suspect you would love it... I could newer go back to my HD after being used to the buitiful racer the HD2 is, and i absolutely love the screen to.

Hi,
I've spent 1 week with the HD2 after a year on the HD. Mobile Shell 3.5 on both.
The main difference is speed. HD2 is soooo much faster. Didn't notice the HD was particularly slow whilst I was using it, but going back to it now is PAINFUL.
I struggled a bit initially with the capacitive screen, found it a bit hit and miss. In particular I found the HTC keyboard a nightmare, way too sensitive. Installing the .cab that decreases screen sensitivity has improved things greatly, and installing Spb Keyboard has also helped. It's improving with practice, there are still times when I do something and it doesn't register, but overall I'm starting to like it. There's a definite knack to it: much lighter touch, smoother motions. So there's a learning curve here + a need to tweak. And I'm sure the experience will continue to improve as third party software is adapted for it.
Mobile Shell has a few minor compatability issues but nothing to worry about (screen brightness control doesn't work, voicemail indicator widget doesn't work, a few other minor things). Spb are generally good at updating for significant new hardware releases, same thing happened with the HD when it was first released and they fixed everything quickly. I tried the Sense interface for a day or two to see if I could get used to it, it IS very pretty. But went back to Mobile Shell, I find it much more functional.
The HD2 build quality is excellent vs good for HD. And the additional screen size is a significant plus too. I was initially worried it would be a step too far in terms of the overall size of the device, but no. As soon as I laid eyes on the actual device + picked it up I knew it wouldn't be a problem.
Browsing in Opera is fantastic. Fast and the big screen helps. Still not comparable to a desktop browsing experience but very usable and way better than the HD due to the speed.
Overall it's a big step forward from the HD and highly recommended. Like I said, I find going back to the HD to dig out a few files I need to be surprisingly painful...

Cret said:
Secondly (don't get me wrong here) whilst I don't want an iphone, is the responsiveness of the HD2 screen the same kind of thing? Local shops here don't have one I can try so I have to go by what others tell me, and I'd like it to work as smooth as the iphone screen, ie no actual pressure etc.
I know it's capacitive so it should be like that but I don't know if there are differences aside from that to how the screen responds. Hope that makes sense!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tested the HD2 besides both, an 3G and 3GS, and really couldn't find any real difference in the screens responsiveness. You don't have to do any pressure on the HD2's screen ... I have to say, that I had a problem with the high sensitivity at first, but when playing around with an Nokia N900 last week, I noticed how fast I adapted to the capacitive screen of the HD2. The N900's screen was a pain in the ass (although its actually quite good for a resistive screen), because slight fingerswipes and tips didn't to anything ...
When browsing the forums you will notice, that most ppl here have/had a problem with the keyboard of the HD2. Besides the bugreporting here (I don't have any of these problems), I imagine that most of the problems with the keyboard just come from the unfamiliar sensitivity. By lifting the fingers a little higher when typing, I managed to type pretty accurate.
I don't have a Touch HD to compare side by side, but had the possibility to compare the HD2 to an iPhone 3G ... the 3G was very slow compared to the HD2 ... So wouldn't really go back to a last-gen phone ...

Had a Touch HD for a year until i bought my HD2 last month.
I Had Dutty's Leo rom running since he started releasing those, so I felt completely at home with my HD2 when i had it in my hand. (For those not knowing : Leo rom for Touch HD is just that. Winmo 6.5 running HTC Sense, just like the HD2)
A few things felt wonderfully different tho :
Screen is beautifull. The glas type used is almost impossible to scratch. I have my phone in my pocket unprotected. Even accedently slipped my keys in with it a few times. Not a mark on it! What is this screen made of ? Diamond ??
Speed. Wow! This phone is fast. I ran the weather demo simultaniously, side by side with the Touch HD. And the difference makes the Touch HD look like a joke. (it's not, but compared, its sloooow)
Pinch zoom. OMG now i know why Iphone has been the king of mobile browsing. HAS been! HD2 is now the new king! Opera + capacitive screen with multi touch AND a 1 ghz processor ? It is a match made in heaven. Mobile browsing is EASY and fun now. Thank god i have an internet sub on my simcard...
Camera. Remember how a big hazzel it was to take a pic with Touch HD ? I mean, the moment is GONE, before the camera is ready to take the picture!
With HD2 and a shortcut on the Sense start screen , it takes around 1 second(!!) from press on camera icon till your ready to take the picture!. The flash LED (Which can blind a man btw) makes it possible to shoot in the dark, FINALLY!
Well those things was EXACTLY why I upgraded, and I have not been dissapointed.
Some had a huge problem with the sensitive screen. Not me, I adapted quickly, and the keyboard I was used to from leo rom on the Touch HD, so i guess it's a matter of taste, or fat fingers .
Also
There are a LOT of the tweaks and programs for Dutty's leo rom that works great with the HD2, like BG4all etc.

rd2000 said:
The flash LED (Which can blind a man btw)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep, fortgot to mention the LEDs. I love them. Not to take pictures, but for everydays things. Really missed a LED on the Touch HD.

I got my HD2 a week ago, and I'm loving it, other than the rather short battery life (may be a temporary issue, some people do not have this issue).
It's definitely faster than the HD. Going through the Windows folder in File Explorer takes 2 seconds, rather than 6-8 seconds on the HD. Going through tabs in TouchFlo 3D (Sense) is fast, and tab contents are displayed lightning fast.
TomTom works great on the HD2, haven't tried CoPilot because they do not have maps that I could purchase for my region yet (which is funny, since I can download the map while trialling the software). TomTom is rather smooth on the HD2, the position cursor does not jerk forward when moving. With valid QuickGPS data, getting a GPS fix is faster than on the HD.
The speaker is a little worse than the HD in my opinion, although it's somewhat louder than the HD.
Moving from Resistive (HD) to the Capacitive screen in the HD2 may take some time to get used to it. Drawing/scribbling notes can be hard, so is selecting the directory/folder you want to go to in File Explorer. Maybe it's me, I have large fingers.
Reception compared to the HD, Nokia N82, N95 8GB.
The 3G network I'm on is rather bad in my room.
Nokia N82 and N95 8GB - 4 of 7 bars (estimated equivalent on the HD2 would be 3 of 4 bars)
HTC Touch HD - 1 of 4 bars
HTC Touch HD2 - 3 of 4 bars, sometimes full signal.
The signal bars on the HD2 tend to fluctuate at times, while holding the phone in landscape mode and browsing the internet, the signal may drop to no bars, disconnect from the network, then come back on with 1 or 2 bars.
Camera is great. Autofocus seems to be 'continuous', focusing when the camera is moved or after a few seconds. Shutter lag is much shorter than on the HD, but taking moving subjects may still result in a blurr (cranking up the ISO setting doesn't help much). Sharper than on the HD, and the automatic white balance is definitely better than on the HD under certain lighting conditions. LED Flash works OK for objects further than 30cm most of the time, using it for close ups may sometimes result in a bright, white mess.
I'm using the 1.43 ROM, so some of these issues may be fixed in the updated ROM. There are some issues in TouchFlo/Sense, but they are easily corrected by taking a trip down the Tips & Tricks Post in the Leo Forum.

tbela
I'd used Blackstone for some monthes, and overall I was satisfied. (I'd used Xanny Grid Leo rom)
I've a Leo for a week, and now I'm not simply satisfied but I'm happy with it. The speed, the huge screen and the build quality are fantastic. It's very rear, when I have to fight with small old-fashioned windows controls, but with some patience and practice it is also manageable. Nail-touching definitely doesn't work. Althogh, you can buy capacitive-compatible stylus on ebay.
Only disadvantage for me: fring doesn't work, but I hope it will be fixed soon. Temporarily I use Nimbuzz for chatting.
Overall I can highly recommend the upgrade. If you can do, DO IT!

Thanks very much for all the replies guys. The fact that most of you have written wuite a bit tells me you're very enthusiastic about the phone!
I want one for sure now. The only thing is the cost - I can't renew my contract and there are very few Leos on Ebay and around £500, but only maybe £250 sale proceeds from my HD, so it's quite a hit to take.
If I can get a few quid together to help ease the difference then I'll definitely get one.
Thanks for the comments

Same here, had the HD for about a year and liked it in many respects, the HD2 is a much nicer experience though and if you can afford it at some point I highly recommend to get it.

Well I've made my mind up to get one for sure. The only question really is when.
I'll have to buy an unlocked one on Ebay I think and there are very few on there at the moment because the phone is so new. This is obviously therefore keeping the prices really high.
I'm dying to say 'sod it' and get the credit card out but I know I ought to wait a month or two to see if they get a bit cheaper once more are being sold.
I've read reviews on it and most things I see say that this is basically the best piece of hardware on the market in terms of phones, but that it's "let down/ruined" etc by having winmo on it. I like winmo and have used it for years, so for me, that's a plus!
Having said that, I'd kill to see/have winmo7!

Yep. Those reviews are nonsense.
Powerful hardware like this needs a powerful OS, and WinMo really is by far the most powerful OS you can get.
It doesn't ruin anything. It's the perfect OS for a phone like this.
WinMo bashing is a current trend that you can't do anything against when sites like Gizmodo or Engadget spread the FUD. It's really sad.
I wouldn't want any other OS on the HD2.

maati said:
I wouldn't want any other OS on the HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Overall I agree, But Android 2.0 would be very interesting

Well I'm sure I'll be quite happy since it's exactly what I'm used to.
Last phones I've had have been Touch HD, Omnia, XDA Orbit etc - loved them all.
Can't WAIT to get the HD2 though. Especially now I've bought one this afternoon.

Cret said:
Well I'm sure I'll be quite happy since it's exactly what I'm used to.
Last phones I've had have been Touch HD, Omnia, XDA Orbit etc - loved them all.
Can't WAIT to get the HD2 though. Especially now I've bought one this afternoon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Congrats to get this lovely phone. I'd wager you will like it .

From a Touch HD to Iphone 3gs...HD2 ?

I once had a touch HD and loved it, I sold it for an Iphone 3gs.
I have got an opportunity to get an HD2 but need to know a few things.
How do these thing compare to the HD
How much faster on Sense UI is the HD2 over the HD ?
What is the camera/video like compared to the Touch HD ?
What 3D games are on the HD2 ?
what is the future of the HD2 with WM7 coming ?

THUDUK said:
any on a side note just for fun, why should I leave the iphone world ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..because it's evil?
Anyway, there's nothing, hardware wise, were the hd2 doesn't surpass the 3gs. Maybe excluding the internal memory.
Same goes design-wise, but that's more of a subjective opinion.
So, unless you cannot part from the feeling of being cuddled that should come with using an iphone all day long, then the switch is definitely a gain

Search the forum and you'll know EVERYTHING you wanna know just don't waste our time and bytes with pointless discussions.
You like it? Change it, you don't like it or you're switching back to iPhone? Well read my sign.

have edited my question, more suited to comparing HD to HD2

Well I'll try to be as much clear as I can.
You know the difference between the original Xbox and Xbox360? And between Playstation 2 and Playstation 3?
Well, the same difference is between HD and HD2: a whole new world. Faster, smoother and with a bright future for my taste.
Actually the HD2 is the most powerfull smartphone on the market and, as you can read, Android is going to be completely ported to that platform. Moreover in the future probably even WP7 will be ported extending life of this incredible machine.
So it's your choice: you had fun with your HD and you want to come back fighting and testing new ROMs? Well... dump the iPhone and go for the HD2.
Instead you like easy life, everything close to your fingers and the limitation of a closed operating system? Stay with your iPhone.
For my taste, I love to fight and test, so I love my HD2.
I hope to have been clear enough

THUDUK said:
I once had a touch HD and loved it, I sold it for an Iphone 3gs.
I have got an opportunity to get an HD2 but need to know a few things.
How do these thing compare to the HD
How much faster on Sense UI is the HD2 over the HD ?
What is the camera/video like compared to the Touch HD ?
What 3D games are on the HD2 ?
what is the future of the HD2 with WM7 coming ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sense is much faster on the HD2 than the HD, though keep in mind it will not match the UI consistency of the iPhone, regardless of how much you fiddle with ROMs. Sometime's it'll be blazingly fast, sometimes it might hang for a bit.
3D games- you can check out stuff online, but there's not much of note, as large devs have all abandoned Windows Mobile. I have Need for Speed Undercover (works, but the WM version has much poorer graphics than the iPhone one), Xtrakt (slightly better graphics, but I don't think it's very fun), Ferrari GT Evolution (arcade-style graphics), and Doom II (which I suppose is 3D). The HD2 has a powerful graphics chip (just a bit slower than the 3GS'), but there's almost no software on WM that makes use of it. The only platform with decent 3D apps these days is the iPhone.
As for WP7, the HD2 is physically capable of running it, so I fully expect it to be ported over at some point here on XDA (never officially, though, because it doesn't have the requisite hardware buttons).

Basically, if you want a phone to be a phone straight out of the box, to do what it is supposed to do and to do it well then stick with an iPhone. If you want to have to mess about to get your phone to work properly, and even then have to put up with the inherent instability issues, then get an HD2

monty_rm said:
Basically, if you want a phone to be a phone straight out of the box, to do what it is supposed to do and to do it well then stick with an iPhone. If you want to have to mess about to get your phone to work properly, and even then have to put up with the inherent instability issues, then get an HD2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha yeah, that's basically it.
I would add, though, that the HD2's 4.3" screen is absolutely glorious. Unfortunately WM manages to put all that hardware to waste .

monty_rm said:
Basically, if you want a phone to be a phone straight out of the box, to do what it is supposed to do and to do it well then stick with an iPhone. If you want to have to mess about to get your phone to work properly, and even then have to put up with the inherent instability issues, then get an HD2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think if you have an Iphone stick with iphone OS its more easy to use and good app support. Who ever has come from the Iphone 3gs to the hd2 and your happy your a really a geek!. I like iphone but its too plain i would get bored by the second month of having it.