Guys,
Never ever wanted to even bother about iPhone due to the fact that WinMo devices have almost endless custom apps available and tweaks etc.
That said...I played/fiddled with a mates iPod touch today and the speed at which animation took place and the scrolling of files was immensely smooth.
Anyone recommend any tweaks to help make the Touch HD run this smooth?
Wiggz said:
Guys,
Never ever wanted to even bother about iPhone due to the fact that WinMo devices have almost endless custom apps available and tweaks etc.
That said...I played/fiddled with a mates iPod touch today and the speed at which animation took place and the scrolling of files was immensely smooth.
Anyone recommend any tweaks to help make the Touch HD run this smooth?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buy an iphone 3GS!
Come on...seriously. Can the HD not perform to that level then?
You could try flashing a new ROM??
There's a huge difference between "smoothness" and "speed"!
While the iPhone's UI is VERY smooth, it's actually slower than the Touch HD (for the iPhone 3G, the 3GS is now a bit faster due to the Cortex A8 processor architecture).
The level of smoothness depends on the software. While Windows Mobile was designed for slow hardware and therefore is pretty fast on newer devices, it was not designed for finger use and therefore doesn't feature that smooth kinetic scrolling and nice animations.
Sorry, but you can't have an interface that's as "nice looking" as the iPhone's for now, though I think TouchFlo is already pretty good and leaves little to be desired.
Also, try out Miri's or Dutty's WM6.5 ROM and you'll at least get that smooth kinetic scrolling and bigger, nicer looking list items.
The iPhone's interface may look nice and smooth, but it's actually less practical for "professional" use because you don't have multitasking, you only get a bunch of icons, you've got to go back to the homescreen every time you want to switch between applications and there's no good solution for notifications (like the top bar on WM).
I agree - I'm not disputing that Touch HD is a better unit for professionals...and indeed myself...I'm just trying to get the smoothness to rival it.
Have you tried WM6.5? Microsoft has added kinetic scrolling to it.
No, I'm trying to stay with stock ROM
Then you must replace the default WM applications with "smoother" ones. I've made a package with finger friendly applications a while ago:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=473116&highlight=finger+friendly
You can use applications like ThumbCal, Kinoma Play, iContact etc. and make them the default ones via the registry.
The package is a bit outdated and I don't use it anymore because with WM6.5 and the newest TouchFlo it's not necessary.
Wiggz,
I spend the last hour doing my homework and I've found some useful tweaks that speeds up the interface a little bit.
First and foremost, read through this thread.
Having said that, I suggest you use some form of registry explorer and look for the following things.
FontCache / Glyphcache - Located at
HKLM\SYSTEM\GDI\GLYPHCACHE\
The limit should be 8192, if not, record that number and keep it somewhere so that if it doesn't turn out to be stable for you, you can revert it. Change this limit to 65536.
File System Cache - Located at
HKLM\System\StorageManager\FATFS\CacheSize
The limit should be 0 by default. Change this value to 8192. Also, in the same section, you'll see something called EnableCache. The value of that should be 1, if it's 0, change it to 1 to enable file system cache.
File System Filter Cache - Located at
HKLM\System\StorageManager\Filters\fsreplxfilt\ReplStoreCacheSize
The limit should be 0 by default as well. Change this value to 131072.
After doing these settings, do a soft reset and see what happens? Noticeable differences should be seen in Opera. If you find that you get instability as a result of these cache differences, simply reduce the numbers by dividing them by 2 (e.g., 65536 > 32768).
I hope this helps you get that iPhone fluidity that you're looking for.
Cheers.
Credits goes to this thread by vincent1 and this thread by hyphen.
if you like iphone interface ... buy an iphone for dummies ....
HD is better faster and superior ....
if you want more speed and iphone interface install Vito winterface or better mobile shell 3 the iphone UI killer
You can also buy a Samsung Omnia 2: http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=5734
Looks pretty smooth, hm?
You can also buy a Samsung Omnia 2: http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=5734
Looks pretty smooth, hm?
The iPhone is indeed smoother and more fluid. There is no tweak, custom Rom or other today plugin that can give you the same experience and still deliver the ease, clean looks and functionality in one package. Believe me, I've tried them all and thus got an iPhone
In theory the HD might be faster, but in practice it isn't. WinMo is fundamentaly flawed in many ways. Graphicly 6.5 is a joke, that's why every manufacturer (samsung, HTC...) are trying so hard to cover it up. And let's not forget iPhone's 3D capabilities!
The HD had potential, but HTC and microsoft failed (again) IMO.
The amount of apps shouldn't be the reason to buy the HD. Many apps don't support WVGA and the iPhone's appstore has thousands of programs and is growing fast. Some free, some not. It's nice to see a lot of iPhone apps are far more 'creative' and utilize multitouch.
While the iPhone interface seems smoother at first glance, it is actually slower because there's no multitasking and you have to close the application you're in and go back to the home screen in order to launch another application. This slows down the workflow dramatically.
When I got the iPhone 3G, at first I also was stunned by how smooth the UI was, but after some weeks of using it, I realized that the UI was actually pretty ineffective because you can only have that bunch of icons, no information on the homescreen, no multitasking and there's no good solution for notifications.
While the WM interface looks a bit "old", it's actually more effective/productive in my opinion.
You should really try out Miri's or Dutty's latest WM6.5 ROMs, the new Manila is a lot better and the kinetic scrolling makes for a huge difference imo.
I agree that with the shipped ROM or with a badly configured ROM the Touch HD seems a little "stucky" and not that smooth or fast as an iPhone (and especially the 3GS). But have you tried some good cooked ROMs? Especially the new WM 6.5 releases are VERY fast and smooth.
Almost all my collegues own an iPhone (3G). In the beginning they laughed at me (they're all Apple addicts, I am the only PC user). But with every new ROM I flashed I astonished them more and more. Now two of them even sold their iPhones
maati,
You kept saying that iPhone 3G is slower and 3GS is only slightly faster. I find this not to be the case at all. My cousins has both 3G and 3GS and we sat down few days ago and did a side by side comparison surfing some websites. We're on the same network. Both 3G and 3GS beats my HD by miles in speed. 3G still beats mine but by not much but for 3GS the difference is very noticeable.
I'm still using stock ROM, but I'm not sure if ROM makes any difference to Opera mobile's speed.
The thing is, iPhone is fast out of the box, no tweaking is needed. Whereas I'm struggling still with the randomly non-reponding screen. I still find myself having to press very hard to activate actions on my HD. Sometimes nothing happens after 5 or 6 presses, then suddenly a rapid strings of reactions comes, and it overshot what I actually wanted to do. I had the same problem with my HTC advantage with its cook ROMs. Everytime I flash a new ROM, the desktop UI is fast (though it seldom have any influence on the underlying applications) for a while but it usually quickly deteriorate once more tweaking and softwares are loaded.
Not only that, when she showed me her applications and walk though with me some of the 65,000 applications in the apple store, I was just dumbfounded. I had always ridiculed her for not using what I had always believe to be the most superior phone, which to me was window mobile phones.
So to tell the truth, I'm lately extremely tempted to jump ship myself.
I was not talking about surfing the internet. This depends on where you are and which network you are on (e.g. where I live, the Touch HD is faster than the 3G, especially on fast HSDPA networks).
I was talking about stuff like opening applications, everyday tasks. The HD does them faster than the 3G, especially when you leave the applications running in the background. And even with lots of applications running in the background, the HD's battery life is significantly better.
Maybe it's because I know how to use it (e.g. don't press more than once on a button just because it doesn't react immediately) but I've got no problem with the responsiveness of the HD. I even think it's a bit better than on the iPhone where some applications are also pretty slugish (though the resistive screen needs more force). And my iPhone crashed at least as often as my Touch HD (I think about once in 2-3 weeks with no soft reset).
(btw. I'm talking only about the iPhone 3G which I used together with the Touch HD for some weeks. I only tried the 3GS once.)
IMO...
speed = yes
smoothness and fluidy = no
(there is a difference but WinMo is just not designed to be smooth overall like the iPhone)
Wiggz said:
Guys,
Never ever wanted to even bother about iPhone due to the fact that WinMo devices have almost endless custom apps available and tweaks etc.
That said...I played/fiddled with a mates iPod touch today and the speed at which animation took place and the scrolling of files was immensely smooth.
Anyone recommend any tweaks to help make the Touch HD run this smooth?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi Wiggz,
if u want a UI which has speed on WM6.1 then i recommend Point UI. it is finger friendly and the kinetic scrolling speed is great. with customizing it; there are a large no. of applets which r all free from the community page on their website
try it out...ive been using it for a while now and ill never go back to touch flo 3D. If u buy PointUI pro or find a cracked one somewhere then this increases the detachment from WM UI as u have a full contact card and no longer need 2 use Wm's ugly one. if u choose to download either version a great Applet mod is the Messaging Mod which lets u read ur SMS with out going to the WM app.
Related
Hey everyone,
Let me start off by saying that this is not a promo or hate post for the iPhone.
I was always a WM user, had a Trinity for a few years and loved it. I went to the iPhone and I must admit it is much better than the WM in many ways. Months later I heard about the HD, I have it now but after using the iPhone I feel such a diconnect with WM. I used the HD with a few various ROMs but went back to the iPhone due to the superior integartion of software and hardware, everything just seems to work so much better. Now my HD is just collecting dust. I know that the HD is a much superior device in hardware (except for the touch screen-I am not talking about resolution). There are a bunch of little things that annoy me about the HD and I know it is just software realated. For instance, I can't even go on the Facebook site with Opera Mobile, looking at pictures just does not work properly. Youtube video are not as smooth or high quality partly due to lack of 3G, I am in Canada. I know this can't be changed but still a bit of a bother. The camera is 5mp but I can't even take pictures of my 1 year old son without blurring due to the shutter speed. I read many threads and hacks but it is just overwelming. Can you guys make a few suggestions as I really like the HD and want to use it instead of the iPhone. How can I get faster browsing on EDGE? I don't care about streaming Youtube but is there at least an option to download Youtube videos in HiDef to watch at a later time? I don't want to ramble on and I hope you understand what I am asking, any help is appreciated.
Yes, I do like and I don't mind tweaking my phone.
If you really like the IPhone's simplicity check this out: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=473116&highlight=finger+friendly
to download youtube vids look at this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=427702
for facebook just set your browser to iphone.facebook.com (isntead of m.facebook.com).
Other browsers are faster than Opera but I have a 3G Touch Pro and an Edge Touch HD and the speed difference actually isn't that much - just a few seconds no a full page. You can try to use Iris Browser (it is based on webkit so it looks iPhony) or NetFront or SkyFire (fastest but not high resolution yet).
Also have a look at Opera Mini not Mobile that comes installed on our THD. This browser is fast.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=469469&highlight=opera
I recommend Opera Mini v4.2.13216 if you don't want to do any tweaking.
Concerning the camera: I recently compared it to the iPhone camera under daylight conditions and the HD camera really is about 10 times better. The pictures are very sharp, there's no grain and you can zoom in 4 times and still see details.
The iPhone pictures were blurres, zooming in was useless and they were grainy even in brigt daylight.
I suggest you disable the shutter sound and set the picture quality to 'super-fine'. I took photos with the HD while skiing, which makes it impossible to hold the phone still and the pictures were perfect nevertheless.
Concerning Facebook, try using another browser like Iris, Internet Explorer or Skyfire (which is not yet released but will definitely be able to display any website, including video).
Next, I have to say that my HD recently annoyed me a lot and I already thought of getting an iPhone (again).
I tried to replace all the Windows Mobile applications with finger-friendly alternatives and was quite successful (see the video bugsykoosh posted earlier).
However, Winterface caused crashes and could not make me happy at all (in fact, I was even more annoyed by the crashes and the lack of beutiful animations like the ones on the iPhone).
Then I made a WAD2 skin using bluemetalaxe's realize iconset and the iPhone-like launch animations. Now, everything runs smooth again. No crashes anymore, an interface that's completely customizable and beautiful and launching applications is fun
I then installed FingerMenu and replaced all the horrible green with a nice blue and now I love my HD again!
OK, that's my story... please excuse my any bad grammar in my story as I'm not English
i looked up bluemetalaxe threads and i ended up with huge sets of icons and i have no idea how to assigne them or how they would look like on my hd :S can you please post screens for your hd and how it looks like now and direct us to the thread with the instructions to follow ? please.. this sounds so interesting to my and i am actually bored with the touchflow style and capabilities :\
There is nothing wrong with wanting the iPhone if you don't need to switch in spare battery during the day, do not require GPS, and do not keep important excel, power point, and word document on your device.
iPhone is an extremely attractive product. The user interface, smoothness of operation is way ahead of winmo devices'.
However, if your need could only be met by HD, like in my case, you would have to sadly give up the extremly sexy user experience.
To mimic that interface, if you really really like iPhone's UI, I recommend using Vito's Winterface. It is as close as you could get to program launching and navigation. Without complication.
Then, start replacing and looking for finger friendly software to replace the older ones that you had collected. For example, replace the standard contact application with Inesoft Phone 4, may be also use its fovourites (althernatively you can use Winterface's). Use Vito's SMS Chat to replace the SMS. Opera browser is good, but check out Opera mini (It's fast, and scrolling is just as good as Safari's). Use ThumbCal for Calendar for example. Use Google Map with Street View to beat iPhone's standard google map. Use Vito Audio NOtes Touch for voice and call recording. Have you tried Web Video Downloader? It lets you watch not just youtube but every other type of flash websites too, with better video quality downloaded or watched instantly. Try out Panaromic Calc Pro for calculator
GPS applications is the area that winmo devices really shines over iPhone. I have TomTOm7, Garman, Mapking, and iGO8 on my devices. In Australia, I use only TomTom but I use others while travelling overseas.
DOn't forget SoftMaker for desktop class functionality in word processing, spreadsheet and presentation. Or use it just to open attachments without losing any formatting.
The day before yesterday, I was using TF3D, customized with wallpaper on every tab and applications changed with SSMaPa. Today, mine desktop is based on Winterface. Tommorrow? May be SPB Mobile Shell again. This is so much fun playing with all types of software. It makes my toy brand new again each day. Yes, it can be a little laggy at times with tons of software installed. It may also freeze my device once in a while. But, I get to play, and the device serves my need.
Its not just the iphones UI which is better, its the quality of its apps. Developers make more efort with the iphone. Just compare shazam on WM to shazam on iphone, and also lastfm, facebook etc.
Commercial developement for WM has stopepd, everyone develops for iphone now.
darthbane2k said:
Its not just the iphones UI which is better, its the quality of its apps. Developers make more efort with the iphone. Just compare shazam on WM to shazam on iphone, and also lastfm, facebook etc.
Commercial developement for WM has stopepd, everyone develops for iphone now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to mention a iPhone app is 2-3 USD/EUR, while WM apps are like 20 USD.
SO WTF !!!?!? why should we pay more, how more supperior is WM apps against iphone. with NOTHING, in fact, i have 4-5 apps for HD that actually use the HD capabilities (screen res and accelerometer) while, ALL applications on iPhone look better, work better and are cheaper.
There is a commercial product i looked at last days (can't remember, something like a chat program), WM version was 19,99 USD, while iPhone was 3.9 USD .. so again WTF ?!
THAT is why iPhone gains so much momentum. (and because of the capacitive screen )
i sure hope these get fixed in the coming months by our devs and cooks
i just got a chance to play with an old ATOM EXEC (64mb,qvga,520mhz.no 3g...etc). i was amazed on how much faster and snappier the device. i know that the screen has one fifth the pixels, but not everything is depending on graphics. here are some things i noticed ive grouped them into 5 differnt "benchmark classes
1- anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
2-opening the windows directory takes about 1.5 seconds vs 4-5 seconds on my itje's 3.5rc1(one of the fastest roms i have tested. cold booting takes about half the time but thats to be expected due to the smaller windows folder.
3-opening demo PocketArtist is 6 seconds vs 8 on x1.
4-youtube videos using the application @normal quality setting does not lag at all. on my x1 it does sometimes when it is viewing while its finishing the download over wifi. m2d was not as good looking as tf3d but its so much smoother
5-navigating various parts of the OS (for example jumping from programs to settings-> clock-> connections - activesync- connections...etc) was just noticeably snappier on the EXEC. switching to landscape was faster on the X1 though
while the experience of the x1 is clearly better due to the screen,resolution,other phone features and all, i just cant but feel extremely disappointed with how things currently are especially the first observation.
I'm really interested in our cooks opinion on how performance may end up being improved in a major way in the coming few months in any of the above situations. I'm obviously interested in the first point as its very easy to notice compared to the other points. can we expect something worthwhile in terms of performance in wm6.5
btw i also tested a cooked dutty v4 htc diamond and i dont think the diamond was much better than the x1 in the performance.
I don't know if your x1 is customised or what, but so far my take is the X1 is the fastest winmo phones I ever own in the last few years, considering those I have owned include both smartphone and professional, wm5 and wm6 (touch pro, samsung i780, omnia, treo 500v, moto q9h, etc)
that reply was more fanboish than i would like it to be . i think the X1 (despite some problems) is the best htc phone made. but current generation QC-based phones (x1,tpro,hd and diamond) seem to be suffering from a performance problem and im not sure whats at blame.
are you noticing better performance than me?????? im using itje 3.5rc1
1- anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
na....im totalli with you that ATOM EXEC is way faster than X1. no doubt. my frnd got an atom. but u hav 2 consider this
1. x1 resoution is 5times more as you said. thats like going from 800x600 resolution to 1920x1250. dats a HUGE jump and just imagine if just a ram and cpu upgrade is enogh to handle that kind of load.
2. also, i noticed that you r running tf3d. now installing that copies bout 1400 files into your windows folder. dat will take time.
3 .i don agree with apps running faster. youtube or PocketArtist, both run lot faster on x1.
4. navigation (for example jumping from programs to settings-> clock-> connections - activesync- connections...etc) is faster because, there are more things installed in you x1 than in your atom. also dont forget the fact that atom runs on lower resolution. a QVGA app that takes 200KB of RAM might take upto 2MB of ram when converted to WVGA.
im not the best guy to understand the problem and the solution but if i were to guess it could be one or more of the following :
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory 2-unoptimised code in apps for w/vga
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
4-none of the common apps i mentioned makes use of the hardware(which means that they will be slow even on tegra + 1ghz cpus
5-HTC/SE made a bad design by putting slow cpu/graphics on a WVGA screen. they are biting more than what they can chew
as mentioned earlier. can we realistically expect a major change in performance if the cooks and devs here focus their effort on improving this
THE GRIZZ said:
im not the best guy to understand the problem and the solution but if i were to guess it could be one or more of the following :
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory 2-unoptimised code in apps for w/vga
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
4-none of the common apps i mentioned makes use of the hardware(which means that they will be slow even on tegra + 1ghz cpus
5-HTC/SE made a bad design by putting slow cpu/graphics on a WVGA screen. they are biting more than what they can chew
as mentioned earlier. can we realistically expect a major change in performance if the cooks and devs here focus their effort on improving this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well first thing as mention your running TF3d and that take up alot of the speed on your x1 i did reinstall of my phone to the newest orginal rom from se without any kind of tf3d and gotta say my phone was twice as fast when it had tf3d on it..also most of todays apps are not optimized for the newest phones out on the marked second try some real test with some games (eks Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2 - Call of Duty 2 -) (convert some mp3s or videos on the phone) Test with some emulators like fpsece - pocketsnes - picodrive then you will hopefully see what your x1 is good for
i noticed when i have lot of apps open ..the phone becomes slow..and simple functions such as opening Menu's takes more than 1 second.
so when this happens.,..i use the 'FreeRam' of SKTools...and clear up everything.
then it becomes fast as before.
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
THE GRIZZ said:
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One of the major problems here is windows mobile. It's just a mess.
Another is the resolution. Even on 2d, it makes a hell lot of difference. There's like ... 500% more pixels, with only 50% more performance.
THE GRIZZ said:
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you did look around in XDA, you should know that Qualcomm's CPU is well known for it poor performance (especially for 2D/3D). X1/HD is already the best you can get compare to Kaiser but still far left behind PDA w/ Intel Xscale CPU. See for yourself for Diamond vs. Asus P565 (the current performance king):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZHYimU-VHM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCI6JyfmuPU&feature=related
Since it's bascially a hardware issue, there is not much we can do on it performance side. But X1 still my best one I can get base on it's overall features (3.5mm audio, USB 2.0, WVGA, UTMS w/ US's 850/1900), build quality, form factor, and of course it's look.
iPhone? It does have PowerVR chipset for graphic acceleration. And it's simply a joke for this date if I have to give up multi-tasking (for all 3rd party apps) for it's smooth and cool factor. My X1 is a workhorse and I want it to run IGo8 w/ Coreplayer player over A2DP/AVRCP concurrently.
Resolution does indeed play a big role. When I launch a program that needs WGAFIXv3 running, i notice how the framerate is practically doubled....
Hopefully Windows Mobile 6.5 will do justice just as Windows 7 is doing TREMENDOUS justice in terms of speed/performance. I finally appreciate the direction Microsoft is taking. It seems that ever since the introduction of Windows Media Player 7 (all versions up to 6 loaded in a SNAP and then 7 and up started taking forever to open unless you upgrade to the latest/fastest PC), back in the day, Microsoft's norm was to build more and more bulkier mega-code-loading software and this rubbed off on the mobile side of things too. Even SQL Server Express 2005 takes sooooooo long to load on PC's. Everything of theirs needed soooo much disk access to open up until Windows 7 came along.
So yeah I'm hoping a slimlined approach on the mobile platform will redeem the Windows Mobile brand
Diamond vs. Asus P565 (the current performance king):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZHYi...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCI6J...eature=related
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
these things in the video are very CPU intensive stuff. the stuff im complaining about is far simpler stuff
i am talking about simple none 2d graphics intensive image scrolling and simple dialog boxes movements. surly this stuff is not that hard to handle. decoding mpeg4 video at full screen is surly FAAAAAR more work and yet the x1 does an OK job hadling it. choking at something like displaying dialog boxes, schrolling screen full of text, handling menu selections...etc fingermenu,ucweb, miniflow, album, s2v are hardly graphics intensive stuff
question: is anyone noticing much better results then mine on a lite or even naked ROM
anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have replied to your post on the Turbo X1 thread, there are some answers, but maybe not the magic bullet you and I have been both looking for.
after messing around to get speedbooster to work. i managed assign higher priority to some of the apps that are suffering. its giving some worthwhile enhancements nothing major though.
im begening to think that the only way we can get get improved performance and iphone-like "experiance" is for all the software need to be re-written to use the graphics hardware of the QC chipset. that does not look very likely even on future software since the majority of the avalable phones dont have it. writing software for wm requires it to be written for the lowest common denomiator hardware.
software for LCD hardware will continue to make WM software a bit ugly for a very long time indeed
I am quite mystified by threads such as these but I put it down to two things... 1, I am not such an intense nor knowledgable user as the OP of the thread and 2, I dont use my phone in the same way or do not expect it to be used as I would my laptop or have the same level of software as the OP of the thread...
TBH I have been amazed by the capability of this phone and am pleasantly surprised time and again by its speed, functionality and performance... most of my programs are up and running in incredibly short order, I can access menus and the like almost instantaneously and even the windows folder (previously the worst folder to access using file explorer time wise) is much faster now when I open it... (I have upgraded to the R2A ROM and its much much better)... I find that videos are very watchable and play with no lag and the audio/video in sync... overall its exactly what it says on the tin in my ever so humble experience... although in my own admission I am not very savvy when it comes to these things so perhaps I am misunderstanding the fact that it is supposed to be as fast and capable as my laptop...
even the new generation htc phones (diamond2, touchpro2 )are using the same QC msm7200a present in all common WM w/vga phones http://www.htc.com/www/product/touchdiamond2/specification.html .
i think its about time software development should focused on creeating two versions of the same software
-qvga for compatibility with any phohe (including non graphics accelerated vga phones)
-w/vga version with hardware acceleration since all htcphones released since the kiaser use it
Shadowdh, i think the x1 is the best htc-made phone ever. but i dont understand why many people(you included) are ignoring (or not noticing) the fact that its quite slow in certain aspects that i have highlighted in the first post
THE GRIZZ said:
Shadowdh, i think the x1 is the best htc-made phone ever. but i dont understand why many people(you included) are ignoring (or not noticing) the fact that its quite slow in certain aspects that i have highlighted in the first post
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Click to collapse
The Grizz,
I believe it's similar to the whole issue of being able to notice "ghosting" on LCD screens. I personally know what it is, but yet I don't care enough to want to bother about it. For others, some people may not know what ghosting is until you show it to them and once you have "opened their eyes", they irrevocably develop the habit of constantly taking note as it happens on their screens.
And I believe this is ultimately the same issue with the issues you describe. Some people are just really content and amazed with the fact that such a small little bugger can still pack a punch. Sure, it'll slip up once or there, but for the most part, people are happy with what they've spent on the phone.
My 3 cents,
Cheers.
THE GRIZZ said:
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory
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Click to collapse
Maybe the SD card tuneup could help you speeding up the off-board flash memory goving you more speed from SDHC then internal flash...
THE GRIZZ said:
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
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Click to collapse
One of the basic science rules is: if you gain on one thing you have to give in on other things.
Higher speed means higher power consumption. In time a higher speed will be possible with the same power consumption because the cpu size becomes smaller. But for that you will have to wait.
So what do you want? A speedy phone with unacceptable power consumption or do you want to timetravel to get the newest technology before we can imagine how it should look like ?
got myself a n97 and i put my HTC Touch HD up for sale! this was by far the best cellphone forum!
how does it compare?
Why did you sell? I really like my HD, although not a fanboy, and always like to know how new phones compare
(Worst thing about getting a contract in the UK is knowing you've got 18 months to go until you next unwrap a shiny new toy!)
nokia
If you want the N97 you are going to buy the N97 no mater what phone you have now.. eg the touch HD .
The touch HD ( fro me ) is a fab phone, and does everything that I want it to do .
I have all the fixes etc on my Orange ROM . and it works fab .
I have done the nokia thing.. had a N95 , N73 etc.. and they were not " for me " the touch has it's downfalls.. but so does every phone.....
Best of luck with your new phone.
One thing to consider though. Whenever I am looking into purchasing a new phone, I am also looking at the help forums, backup, rom upgrades, improvements, features etc and IMHO nothing compares to having xda developers!!
I did away with my Touch HD and got my first iPhone 3G 32gb. Man I love how fast and silky smooth everything is. The user interface puts anything from windows mobile to shame. Even running at Edge speed is now acceptable on safari browser. Video and music plays buttery smooth with 0 hick-ups unlike the HD or touch pro or diamond.
Oh and btw because of the new CPU chip and ram boost there is not much of a need for multitasking..all applications open instantly with no waiting even games load lightning fast. Also it does perform some multitasking. For instance you can play music while in most other applications like google maps etc. Also when you go back into another application it remembers right where you left off. Have seen no need for true multitasking yet...there is always jailbreaking if I really want it, but I truly never used it much of the HD accept for playing music while I type an email or text, which the iPhone does this too which suprised me, because I thought it did not multitask in any shape or form.
Also installing a free ATT file you can access free USB tethering to a laptop or desktop. no unlocking or jailbreaking required.
The screen is much better than I thought it would be in fact its better than the HD's in many ways accept for pure resolution, which the HD doesn't make much use of in TouchFlo3D where it streches wallpaper to VGA res. Also in the HD's opera browser you can't even read web page text unless you zoom in. The iphone's browser text can be read without zooming.
There is absolutely nothing I miss from the Touch HD or windows mobiloe since owning my first iPhone 3GS.
Only cons I can mention in comparison to WM is less customizability unless you want to jailbreak it, which I don't for now. Also battery life is not as good as the Touch HD, but it may be more so because I've been heavily using it since I got it. Also battery is not broken in yet.
byebye !!!
i came from nokia.. i think it is fairly laggy.. unless n97 is better?? however do u have as many tweaks freeware as XDA?
utvol06 said:
I did away with my Touch HD and got my first iPhone 3G 32gb. Man I love how fast and silky smooth everything is. The user interface puts anything from windows mobile to shame. Even running at Edge speed is now acceptable on safari browser. Video and music plays buttery smooth with 0 hick-ups unlike the HD or touch pro or diamond.
Oh and btw because of the new CPU chip and ram boost there is not much of a need for multitasking..all applications open instantly with no waiting even games load lightning fast. Also it does perform some multitasking. For instance you can play music while in most other applications like google maps etc. Also when you go back into another application it remembers right where you left off. Have seen no need for true multitasking yet...there is always jailbreaking if I really want it, but I truly never used it much of the HD accept for playing music while I type an email or text, which the iPhone does this too which suprised me, because I thought it did not multitask in any shape or form.
Also installing a free ATT file you can access free USB tethering to a laptop or desktop. no unlocking or jailbreaking required.
The screen is much better than I thought it would be in fact its better than the HD's in many ways accept for pure resolution, which the HD doesn't make much use of in TouchFlo3D where it streches wallpaper to VGA res. Also in the HD's opera browser you can't even read web page text unless you zoom in. The iphone's browser text can be read without zooming.
There is absolutely nothing I miss from the Touch HD or windows mobiloe since owning my first iPhone 3GS.
Only cons I can mention in comparison to WM is less customizability unless you want to jailbreak it, which I don't for now. Also battery life is not as good as the Touch HD, but it may be more so because I've been heavily using it since I got it. Also battery is not broken in yet.
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Click to collapse
what about the IMs on your iphone? can't always stay online when you do some other tasks/sms/call/games,etc?
i got lots of iphones before. i just let it be as a small game toy. not else
utvol06 said:
I did away with my Touch HD and got my first iPhone 3G 32gb. Man I love how fast and silky smooth everything is. The user interface puts anything from windows mobile to shame. Even running at Edge speed is now acceptable on safari browser. Video and music plays buttery smooth with 0 hick-ups unlike the HD or touch pro or diamond.
Oh and btw because of the new CPU chip and ram boost there is not much of a need for multitasking..all applications open instantly with no waiting even games load lightning fast. Also it does perform some multitasking. For instance you can play music while in most other applications like google maps etc. Also when you go back into another application it remembers right where you left off. Have seen no need for true multitasking yet...there is always jailbreaking if I really want it, but I truly never used it much of the HD accept for playing music while I type an email or text, which the iPhone does this too which suprised me, because I thought it did not multitask in any shape or form.
Also installing a free ATT file you can access free USB tethering to a laptop or desktop. no unlocking or jailbreaking required.
The screen is much better than I thought it would be in fact its better than the HD's in many ways accept for pure resolution, which the HD doesn't make much use of in TouchFlo3D where it streches wallpaper to VGA res. Also in the HD's opera browser you can't even read web page text unless you zoom in. The iphone's browser text can be read without zooming.
There is absolutely nothing I miss from the Touch HD or windows mobiloe since owning my first iPhone 3GS.
Only cons I can mention in comparison to WM is less customizability unless you want to jailbreak it, which I don't for now. Also battery life is not as good as the Touch HD, but it may be more so because I've been heavily using it since I got it. Also battery is not broken in yet.
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Click to collapse
I have had 2 iphones, 8gb, 8gb 3g and i have tried the new 3gs (college has one).
Use it for a while and after a couple of weeks the weakness shows through, its a really nice interface, it just works, but so does a normal mobile with buttons.
the 3gs is quicker, the camera is almost as bad, the screen is the same, basically i would wait for the newer revision with a higher res screen next year.
once you realise you cannot just modify it (even with jailbreaking) then you get frustrated and wonder if its really worth the £45.00 a month tariff.
I am not getting into a slanging match as its not worth it, I have tried to jump ship but something keeps me returning back to the windows fold.
my 2 pennies worth....
Fallen Spartan said:
nothing compares to having xda developers!!
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this is why i decided against Toshiba TG01 :/ almost everything worth having comes to THD via XDA as soon as possible....just watched youtube software reviews of Touch Pro 2 and Diamond 2 and was amused since i have all those things for a while now (thanks to Dutty)
itolson said:
I have tried to jump ship but something keeps me returning back to the windows fold.
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Click to collapse
I have to agree with you there dude, I tried jumping ship but couldn't due to the sheer amout of customisation/personalisation you can do with WM. No offence to all the iphone fanboys (although you will probably take offence) but the iphone is a phone for fashion victims, WM is for techies/pros.
That's my 2 pence, if we keep going maybe we can get a couple of quid together
You guys say good bye and I say hello. I just got a HD and moving from the Touch Pro. I had a 3GS for a while, but after you get past the "ooh shiny" and "omg it's so sleek" phase, all that's left is buttons...I had over 200apps and I had to scroll and scroll and scroll. Not customizable at all.. :| And the keyboard. Horrible. I hate qwerty. How come no one came up with compact qwerty for that thing? And why, oh why can't I replace the battery! I don't want to carry a charger or a battery pack. I want to carry batteries And did I mention the camera sucks? And most of the features they added WinMo already had? I'm glad to be going back to WinMo and besides, TF3D2 v2 should be coming out any day now
cu soon back here on xda-devs when you're done with the proprietary Hellbian OS of your new one!
itolson said:
once you realise you cannot just modify it (even with jailbreaking) then you get frustrated and wonder if its really worth the £45.00 a month tariff.
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Click to collapse
This is exactly why I sold my iPhone 3G and kept the HD. At first, I liked the beautiful interface, but after some weeks, I got really frustrated because the iPhone can't do basic tasks like exchanging files, downloading files from the internet or ftp servers and lots of other basic stuff I could do with Windows Mobile, even with Jailbreak apps that did not work most of the time (like iBluetooth, Backgrounder...).
This is what Adam Z Lein at pocketnow.com said about the Palm Pre today, and the same things could be said about the iPhone. It is just one example, but it describes very well my experiences with the iPhone and why I switched back to the Touch HD in the end (and won't buy an iPhone again):
itolson said:
This was good news. However, since I didn't have the USB cable with me, I would have to find another way to transfer the security certificate to the Palm Pre. On Windows Mobile, there are a number of ways to wirelessly access and transfer files. Normally my first try would be to beam the file via Bluetooth, however the Pre does not support Bluetooth file transfer profiles. On Windows Mobile, I could also access my network file shares over WiFi using the File Explorer and copy files to my device that way. Or I could log into a server using the Remote Desktop Client, map my phone's memory as a network drive and copy files that way. Or I could use Live Mesh beta to syncronize files to my device over any network. The Pre isn't capable of any of those methods.
It turns out, I had to browse to the certificate on my HTC Touch Diamond with File Explorer, then send that as a file attachment to myself on email. The only other option would be to go get the USB cable. Opening the certificate from the email address installed it directly, but I was unable to save the file to the Palm Pre's file system if I needed it in the future.
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Click to collapse
Is it possible to play DivX movies on iPhone or unpack ZIP or RAR archive which is include in mail attachments?
Is it possible to downgrade to other firmware with iTunes 8.2 or something else... e.g. Baseband or other complicated stuff.
How to play flash movies in Safari?
You get the MMS.
Good luck with new toy.
I'm a bit anoyed with the slowness of Touch HD so am considering moving to Hero or iPhone.
iPhone seems to be very quick, but I don't really like Apple's lock-it-down concept, so if UI speed on Hero is comparable to iPhone, I'd rather go that way.
Any input on this?
Hero all the way, more options as such.. however there are some bugs with flash otherwise go for it... i wud still stay with the HD, bigger screen/better reso, everytin else is the same as the hero, cept the digital compass - if u have gps, its rather useless.
hope i helped.
I would prob view the options in person rather then
judging from youtube clips and the likes
milan_ns said:
I'm a bit anoyed with the slowness of Touch HD so am considering moving to Hero or iPhone.
iPhone seems to be very quick, but I don't really like Apple's lock-it-down concept, so if UI speed on Hero is comparable to iPhone, I'd rather go that way.
Any input on this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iPhone 3gs can be jailbroken now...if you want to go down that route
I can't understand what everybody means with "the Touch HD interface is so slow"
How could it be much faster? Or is there such a big gap between Touch HD and iPhone in UI speed?
Maybe I can try an iPhone myself in the next days to look for big differences, but atm i can't imagine, that it would be so much faster.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if an App has to load a certain amount into the memory, there MUST be a small lag before the program opens.
And I think the Touch HD handles Apps and especially its TouchFLO interface very well and fast. So I have no need to even compare to iPhone or something similar because I'm happy
Well UI on Touch HD is slow(-er than iphone 3gs)! Did you not expirience the lag between your action and reaction, when you e.g. move between the tabs, or when you answer the call (veeery annoying), when your going through the contacts, etc?
Iphone seems to do all these things with no noticable dealy.
Also browsing on iPhone is much better (read: faster & better screen rendering and navigation) even though screen resolution is lower.
I guess I'll have to wait for Hero to get into the shops and test in person...
Whats your memory usage like while you are having slow responses from the touch? I don't use TouchFlo and my HD is very fast apart from some of the larger apps like tom tom they all open straight away.
Maybe its because I don't got a direct comparison myself.
But for me, there is no disturbing lag which would me force to buy the iPhone
Like I said, hopefully I can test it myself and compare.
I will give instant feedback after that.
I think iPhone is not exactly faster, but it's much more smooth, it needs slightest touch/multi-touch to response, whereas for HTC Touch HD we have to use more force.
You should try iPhone and you'll get what I mean .
I dont know about hero but iphone resolution is HVGA 480x320 which is lower than a VGA 480x640. if your used to HD screen resolution 480x800 then you will find HVGA pixelated. I would never buy a phone with screen resolution lower than VGA no matter how fast the UI. Remember iphone os is not the same as wm which loads a lot of things on startup due to its multi-tasking capability. try turning off touchflo that would make your HD a lot faster. Keep your HD which is superior to iphone 3Gs
I suggest you try the cooked ROMs if you haven't. They can be very fast and stable. Personally, I have used both iPhone and I have Touch HD with Dutty's WM 6.5 Muchos R4 Rom, I would never think of switching to an iPhone. My Touch HD is very responsive and Fast even with TF3D enabled.
I'm going to wait for another htc phone based on android sense but with a new procesor
enyaj said:
I suggest you try the cooked ROMs if you haven't. They can be very fast and stable. Personally, I have used both iPhone and I have Touch HD with Dutty's WM 6.5 Muchos R4 Rom, I would never think of switching to an iPhone. My Touch HD is very responsive and Fast even with TF3D enabled.
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Click to collapse
Totally agree. I use HD and Iphone and thanks to Dutty's WM6.5 R4 I like HD much more!
"I think iPhone is not exactly faster, but it's much more smooth, it needs slightest touch/multi-touch to response, whereas for HTC Touch HD we have to use more force."
sounds more like a capative vs. restience touch screen hardware difference
some of the andriod devices like capative touch screens too
I've had me HD for about a month now.
Sure it's slow with some things. (not much though)
But, I'm sure the iphone has it's issues also?
The touch can be adjusted to suit, many things can be adjusted. And there are many apps to load and custom HD to your liking.
I did find, having about 9 apps runnig, started to show a little more 'slowness' than norm, but compared with my old S730, it flies along
I spent ages deciding between the HD and new iphone.
I'm plenty happy to get the HD, not wishing I got the iphone.
I haven't seen Hero yet in person but would suggest to wait for the new processors they'll be ready in a month or two and your HD is going to "survive" till then.Personally i won't change it for awhile I like tweaking it and it now has a "soul" it's like a pet compared to the iphone which is like a "tool" .
i would wait until senseUI comes out and able to be put on your HD and see what you think
The smoothness of the iPhone is because of the coding. If you want to see the same degree of smooth scrolling then install PhoneEx for your WinMo and you will see what i mean.
Everything you do is similar to the iPhone smoothness.
WinMo is easily capable but it needs competent programmers, like the creators of PhoneEx to make it decent.
milan_ns said:
Well UI on Touch HD is slow(-er than iphone 3gs)! Did you not expirience the lag between your action and reaction, when you e.g. move between the tabs, or when you answer the call (veeery annoying), when your going through the contacts, etc?
Iphone seems to do all these things with no noticable dealy.
Also browsing on iPhone is much better (read: faster & better screen rendering and navigation) even though screen resolution is lower.
I guess I'll have to wait for Hero to get into the shops and test in person...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
have you tried using teh cooked ROMS in the forums? or perhaps using HD Tweak! then you'll notice how really fast the blackstone is!
Rudegar said:
"I think iPhone is not exactly faster, but it's much more smooth, it needs slightest touch/multi-touch to response, whereas for HTC Touch HD we have to use more force."
sounds more like a capative vs. restience touch screen hardware difference
some of the andriod devices like capative touch screens too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As mentioned before, install the phone extention program PhoneEx and you will see how wrong that is.
The news about the WP7 port to the HD2 has renewed my interest in the device (as a compulsive tweaker) but I just thought I'd give my impression of what it's been like as a HD2 owner going back to Android for the past 36 hours.
First off the difference in screen size IS OBVIOUS. The Desire's screen is a hell of a lot smaller side by side with the HD2's; however the colours on the desire really pop. Both have great screens in their own right but so far I really like the screen on the Desire. Part of the problem with the big HD2 display is that it really shows up the crappy windows CE fonts that still prevail.
Android 2.1 is a LOT more stable than Winmo.
I've not had ONE slowdown or crash on the Desire, whereas the HD2 can be expected to freeze or suffer slowdowns on a daily basis. On the whole things seem to run more smoothly on the Desire. I do like the slick photo preview and music tabs better on the HD2 though I have to say
There is a lot of potential to customise both operating systems but Windows Mobile doesn't have as much scope for replacing CORE apps like messaging as does Android.
Input
Predictive texting is miles better on the Desire (check out MY VIDEO )
HD2 often can't work a word out just because of ONE mistyped letter; you will see in that video that even if I get practically NO letters right it still works things out. The HD2 isn't BAD as such, it's just not as friendly for fast typers like myself, despite the larger screen.
Browser - both Opera 9.7/10 and the stock HTC browser are pretty fast and there probably isn't much between them. Bigger screen is nice on HD2 but Android browser seems a bit more pleasant to use, partly due to the huge array of colours and smooth fonts. Check out this quick video I did for mr.vandalay
This is just a quick overview of a few key things I've picked up on since receiving the phone yesterday.
leoni1980 said:
The news about the WP7 port to the HD2 has renewed my interest in the device (as a compulsive tweaker) but I just thought I'd give my impression of what it's been like as a HD2 owner going back to Android for the past 36 hours.
First off the difference in screen size IS OBVIOUS. The Desire's screen is a hell of a lot smaller side by side with the HD2's; however the colours on the desire really pop. Both have great screens in their own right but so far I really like the screen on the Desire. Part of the problem with the big HD2 display is that it really shows up the crappy windows CE fonts that still prevail.
Android 2.1 is a LOT more stable than Winmo.
I've not had ONE slowdown or crash on the Desire, whereas the HD2 can be expected to freeze or suffer slowdowns on a daily basis. On the whole things seem to run more smoothly on the Desire. I do like the slick photo preview and music tabs better on the HD2 though I have to say
There is a lot of potential to customise both operating systems but Windows Mobile doesn't have as much scope for replacing CORE apps like messaging as does Android.
Input
Predictive texting is miles better on the Desire (check out MY VIDEO )
HD2 often can't work a word out just because of ONE mistyped letter; you will see in that video that even if I get practically NO letters right it still works things out. The HD2 isn't BAD as such, it's just not as friendly for fast typers like myself, despite the larger screen.
Browser - both Opera 9.7/10 and the stock HTC browser are pretty fast and there probably isn't much between them. Bigger screen is nice on HD2 but Android browser seems a bit more pleasant to use, partly due to the huge array of colours and smooth fonts. Check out this quick video I did for mr.vandalay
This is just a quick overview of a few key things I've picked up on since receiving the phone yesterday.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
android leads wm by ages ,even the wp7 is not as good as android ,so i hope of android port instead of wp7
First, I'd like to apologize for what I said about "the unflattering review of the HTC HD2". I guess all that is relative, and it's a mater of individual tastes.
I decided to keep my Nexus, but still wanted to experiment with WinMo and lucky for me, one happened to fall off a truck Anyway, I must say the I'm growing quite fond of the LEO. When it's stock, it's not all that much of a comparison to the Nexus, but after trying a few custom ROMs on it it is alot more pleasing.
The Android browser IMO is far better than Opera. (maybe because I've been using it for so long, but it feels to me to be alot more user friendly.
The fact that I was able to sync my Google mail, Contacts, and Calendar thru ActiveSync was a definite plus.
The LEO display is very nice indeed, the only thing I miss is having the trackball. I don't use it very much on the Nexus, but you really notice not having it available on the LEO.
I'm very happy with the LEO, but I still would not trade the Nexus for one
hoss_n2 said:
android leads wm by ages ,even the wp7 is not as good as android ,so i hope of android port instead of wp7
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Click to collapse
Would the Android port be like the HTC Evo? To me, it seems just like and HTC LEO with Android and a kick-stand.