bricked my phone - maybe? - G1 General

i swapped out my phone today in a tmobile store due to screen issues. my old phone had rc33 on it - the new one didn't.
in my infinite wisdom i decided to download and flash it myself. after doing so i didn't have any data connection - it just kept saying connecting. no edge or 3g.
in an attempt to fix that i flashed it again with rc33 - same thing, no data connection. i thought i'd do a hard reset just to see if that would help - now i can't do anything. when i try to login to my gmail account after starting the phone it can't because i don't have a data connection.
help? i'm not picky... i'll go back to rc30 or whatever just as long as i can get the damn thing working again.

qwyjibo said:
i swapped out my phone today in a tmobile store due to screen issues. my old phone had rc33 on it - the new one didn't.
in my infinite wisdom i decided to download and flash it myself. after doing so i didn't have any data connection - it just kept saying connecting. no edge or 3g.
in an attempt to fix that i flashed it again with rc33 - same thing, no data connection. i thought i'd do a hard reset just to see if that would help - now i can't do anything. when i try to login to my gmail account after starting the phone it can't because i don't have a data connection.
help? i'm not picky... i'll go back to rc30 or whatever just as long as i can get the damn thing working again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude... read first... then post.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3326854
It's not you, its just your bad timing.
Wait it out.

jesus. if this really is my problem then i'll feel quite the 'tard. even moreso than i do now.

qwyjibo said:
jesus. if this really is my problem then i'll feel quite the 'tard. even moreso than i do now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey it's cool. Just FYI for future reference.
ALWAYS read the newest posts and use the search button. If you ask a common question to answers that are given on here several times (ie "How do I get root?") you will get flamed.
And before you reflash your phone for a tech issue like this research it on this forum. Chances are your question has already been asked and answered so you don't have to wait for a reply. If you don't see anything here... call T-Mo from a land line and ask for tech support.
Welcome to XDA-Developers!

Related

Error #777 PPP: 11, no data, no MMS on Verizon VZW on DCD 3.0.1

Ok so i have a xv6800 that i flashed to sprint and then to DCD 3.0.1, didnt let the sprint customizer run, and had no Data and got the same error some others got about this (PBP: 11, #777 no password)
After a few hours with tech support, we did find a solution however
The problem was (at least for my phone) i had a still active data connection going from before i originally flashed (not that they knew that, to them i just "hard reset", which is also true )
Basically it is an undetectable error that if you arent looking for it, you wont find it
The good news is, there may be a way to avoid this problem (and the A-Key problem as well) Simply put the plane into flight mode BEFORE FLASHING OILPROF, and continuing from there
I set my phone back to stock, got all the data and connections going alright, then put it into flight mode (effectivally disconnecting my data) and flashed it (Unlock, Sprint, DCD, in that order) and the phone retained the A-Key AND i had no more data woes.
I reverted back to stock and re-locked in twice more to make sure this wasn't an isolated insident, and each time i put it into flight mode and THEN flashed it and didnt lose any data
Now it is possible that this is a coincidence, but you can be the judge of that, all i know is it works
For those of you with this data problem already, causually mention (after you have given them a chance to "work out the problem") that you had trouble with the internet and had to hardreset the phone while online and that might have cuased the connection to stay open.
If they seem a little..... suspicious of that answer (my tech guy did lol) just say, "But then again i dont know how your network works, ive just had that happen with various programs before"
That line works well
And remeber.... being nice and laughing with the guy on the other side of the phone goes a long way in getting the problem fixed and making them relax
Because if they guess that you flashed a custom rom, they will write in the records where they can ALWAYS pull it up again
Hope this helps someone, and DCD great rom man, mabye next release can included the radio, lol
GamezR2EZ said:
And remeber.... being nice and laughing with the guy on the other side of the phone goes a long way in getting the problem fixed and making them relax
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good advice for almost anything in life when dealing with people.

OTA updates on AT&T

Hello this is my first post. Just wanted to say hi.
Well I have an unlocked G1 running on AT&T and I was wondering how are we suppose to get updates if they are OTA and I assume you would need t-mobile for that.
Is there a way to manually do it? Is there someway to download it directly to the phone from a source?
Thanks alot.
I sure wish I had that t-mobile SIM that I had. I assume it wont work if it is canceled right?
I have a feeling people who have them unlocked are going to get screwed and have security holes up the wazzoo...
i have talked to tmobile multiple times about this. no one seems to know the answer. I have a t-mobile sim card in my phone right now just to see if it will update. the card is the one that came with the phone, show it shows the t-mobile service, it just will not let me call or anything. I am hoping that it will update this way then I can put my att card back in. I will probably leave the t-mobile in every night while I sleep and the phone charges just to see if it will actually work. I will keep you guys posted as to if it works or not.
I have yet to get my OTA update and I am on T-mobile. I was going to unlock my phone, and I have a question. Does your G1 work ok with data on AT&T market and all? plz let me know I have someone that is tempted to buy one at full retail and just take mine after I have it unlocked.
Thanks
it would seem to me that legally, they have to provide the patch at some point due to the GPL... it also must be provided free of charge..
when they offer it is a different story, but legally, anyone who has it, who share it (if they knew where it was cached) with no legal issues
Only Google doesn't use the GPL.
But yes, that's true. The source for everything that's free-and-open (we know there are parts of the OS that aren't) should be made available. Whether or not (and/or when) they offer the update as a binary is anybody's guess, like most things with the G1/Android.
maybe the evil FSF will get involved!?
spyz88 said:
Is there a way to manually do it? Is there someway to download it directly to the phone from a source?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes there is.
http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f28/learn-how-to-update-using-your-microsd-card-5784/
Worked flawlessly and I'm now running RC29.
uberingram said:
Yes there is.
http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f28/learn-how-to-update-using-your-microsd-card-5784/
Worked flawlessly and I'm now running RC29.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The info is also posted on this forum/site under the development area... sorry I don't have a link handy.
--M
did we ever find out if OTA updates get pushed to G1's on other carriers automatically?
The will be pushed to all G1's on a data connection. I repeat ALL G1's on a DATA connection.
I am on AT&T and just got the OTA update yesterday morning. I found this instruction on the internet (could have been sticky from this site) on how to get OTA update the original way.
I download Anycut from app store, create a shortcut for Device info, scroll all the way down and click on download button. Your G1 will call home and it'll appears that nothing else is happening on the screen.
I did this around 9pm Sunday morning, leave my wifi on, phone plugged in for charging and when I woke up my G1 greeted me with new firmware update screen (RC30).
Few issues that I found:
Home and call button are not responding (nothing happen when pressed) and I had to do a system restore to fix it. G1 security screen stop working even after turning security on and off - system restore fixed this. The Built in IM stop working when trying to connect via AT&T Edge, it complain that IM program can't read my phone number off SIM card - WIFI + IM client works without any problems.
natt108 said:
Few issues that I found:
Home and call button are not responding (nothing happen when pressed) and I had to do a system restore to fix it. G1 security screen stop working even after turning security on and off
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Noting that those are are all symptoms of a Setup Wizard call that ended badly somehow.
The guy who discovered this first:
http://inportb.com/2008/11/28/disabling-the-screen-lock-on-android/
I discovered it accidentally, by playing with Any Cut a little bit too much. Heh.
Ah... I see my experience with Setup Wizard funkiness is not an isolated case. At any rate, I did not have to perform a factory reset, as re-running Setup Wizard resolved the issue.

Installed Skype, I resetted now lost data connection

This might be the worse week in phones I have ever had. I download Skype before, why did it do this?
Someone please help me. I am on MR1. Thanks guys.
edit: What just dialing *228 and 1 solve this issue?
In ESPT under M.IP Default Profile - I have weird characters in HA Shared Secteet and AA Shared Secret. Are these suppose to be blank?
edit: made them blank still nothing
edit: now its working but really slow. Maybe its on Verizon's end?
edit: Now its lost again. wtf...
Call verizon for a dmu reset. Also force a 1x connection go to a basement somewhere. The AA and ha key you deleted only come in a 1x connection. By the way you shouldn't have deleted them. Can you even make calls now? If not you will have to be authenticated on there system.
Yes I can still make calls. I also saved both of those keys so I can but them back in.
Crap it didn't save the word doc awesome. I am just not thinking today. Is there anyway to get that back (not the word doc but what I deleted)?
Nope they are gone. So you need to have a dmu reset and force a 1x connection by placing a call and they should come back.
Yikes ok. This is what I get for being impatient. Going to call Verizon now... Thanks for your help.
Ok verizon dude did it. looked like it worked at least with 1X but then I lost it. He did say there are tons of outages today so I guess it was coincident that I downloaded skype. There is no time when they will all be fixed. He said they have tons of tickets about this issue.
edit: looks like the ha aaa have not been changed unfortunetly. will this give me problems in the future? should I have told the verizon guy i did this. didn't want him to know we know how to get into it.
edit: Sorry for the bad typing. It seems to be back up. I went back to see if the entries have changed and they have! Awesome again thanks for your help! Now I am paranoid to download skype even though I know it was not the cause lol.
edit: internet down again. come on verizon fix it! nevermind back. Surprised i am the only verizon user noticing this today.

Exchange Server Account causing reboot - Title Renamed

Not good... From the start, Radio Shack and Sprint Servers took almost 2 hrs to activate my phone and accept my Gift Card. After everything was all said and done, I was playing with the phone downloaded the updated however I didnt install it just yet.
I rebooted the phone, and now it is stuck in an endless reboot cycle... I get the Sprint logo which transitions into the 4G one and plays the little tone; Non-Stop.
All I did was tried popping in my Droid 16GB SD card and it started happening... on my way to RS now to replace. WTF ! ERRR
UPDATE: After further discussion it looks like the issue was with Exchange Server Accounts and Pin/Passwords. Continue reading the thread for more discussion
HTC is aware of the issue and will be addressing in a future update. For the time being there are two ways to bypass the reboot/restart endless cycle.
1) When creating a PIN/Password include at least one Alpha character in your password; i.e "dad1" "1223x" "bobby23", etc...
OR
2)
TripFlex said:
I FOUND A FIX TO EVERYONE'S ISSUE
Like the poster above me said, that is exactly the reason that this works.
Here's what you have to do to get exchange server hooked up normally and not have a constant reboot!
Follow these steps and you will not have any problems.
1.) Hard reset your phone (VOLUME DOWN + POWER with the phone off)
You will have to go down to "CLEAR DATA", it will ask you to confirm.
2.) Let the phone reboot, everything will be erased. Setup your exchange and google account.
WHEN YOU CHOOSE A PASSWORD, USE A NUMBER AND A LETTER
3.) Go to the market place and search for "No Lock". Download it. Install it. Run it.
4.) Press the middle button to make the phone no longer require a lock.
Voila! I just did this and it works perfect!
OP you might want to put this in the first thread you posted so other people know about it without having to go through all these pages.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Credit goes to Marc and Trip - Thanks guys.
That straight sucks yo...I didn't download the update at all. I hope your radio shack is better than mine. They had a total of 4 shipped to them, and they were all pre-ordered.
Damn it, and that's what I'm afraid of...
What's to do if this is the case at my RS. Also have you tried rebooting, and if its not too much trouble try tossing in another SD Card, then reboot
UPDATE: While typing this I was able to hard reset (Vol Up + power button)and it looks like its working... If I can duplicate the problem im gonna take it back, if not i'll keep it and keep a close eye for the next 30 days
Did you try pulling the battery?
Yup, tried pulling battery and everything...
I was able to duplicate the problem and its as followed;
Fresh EVO w/ 8GB Stock card.
Power Off using Off Button
Battery pull and insert Droid 16GB SD Card
Power On Via Button Causes restart
Only way to stop this from happening is a hard reset (Vol Up + Power Button)
What's weird is that when I do a hard reset with the 16gb droid sd card, the EVO starts up just fine and i am able to access my SD Card with all files without issues.
I'm gonna try doing the same procedures with the 8GB card to see if that causes the same problem - if so, it leads me to believe this is a permissions/mounting issue with the EVO that I'm assuming the bug/update fix takes care of. (I have still not yet installed the update in fear ROOT will not be accessible after the update)
Jason
UPDATE 1: Using the same instruction above, however going from the 16GB to 8GB the phone restarts fine with no reboot cycle.
UPDATE 2: Same instructions going from 8gb back to 16gb is now fine.... seems like the phone wanted to read the 16gb first - im confused *SCRATCHING HEAD*
I had the exact same issue with a brand new EVO that I accepted the OTA update (a Sprint rep confirmed that the update was specifically to address the SD card issue).
After the update installed and unit rebooted, it went into an endless cycle. I had to hard reset, and the device is in the process of Hands Free Activation. Will update when I have more info.
Mine is doing it with and without the memory card. F(@#& now i have to go back to the damn store! UGH!
It also started doing this after i did the upgrade.
khov,
I'm downloading the update each time I had to hard reset, however I am not installing it... Were you doing the same ?
OK GUYS, seems the issue at least for me was something with exchange server. After i connect to my exchange server it gives me this endless reboot.
here's how to fix it and start over. Press and hold VOLUME DOWN and POWER BUTTON until a screen comes up, at that screen select clear data
it will reset your phone to factory but that's better than a rebooting phone.
Trip !
You're a genius! It seems that after I initially did the hard reset, I didn't setup my exchange account. After I thought everything was all fine and dandy, I setup my exchange account started reading the replies and found Trip's findings...
Low and behold, without tampering with the SD Card, I rebooted (after i setup my exchange account) and now it has me in an endless reboot. FACK !
Anyone else please verify. Add Exchange account and restart...
It's the password that Exchange makes you set up.
Turn off "Require Password" on your Exchange ActiveSync Mailbox Policy under Client Access.
See my other post here.
jaypeezee said:
Trip !
You're a genius! It seems that after I initially did the hard reset, I didn't setup my exchange account. After I thought everything was all fine and dandy, I setup my exchange account started reading the replies and found Trip's findings...
Low and behold, without tampering with the SD Card, I rebooted (after i setup my exchange account) and now it has me in an endless reboot. FACK !
Anyone else please verify. Add Exchange account and restart...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah i know and this is not going to work for me either unless they get a fix out ASAP i HAVE to use an exchange server. It's bad enough i have to enter a damn password everytime but now this...ugh!
Soupskin said:
It's the password that Exchange makes you set up.
Turn off "Require Password" on your Exchange ActiveSync Mailbox Policy under Client Access.
See my other post here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not a possibility unless someone comes out with an app to bypass the password.
I work for a VERY LARGE company that runs our exchange server, i cannot edit those settings.
TripFlex said:
That's not a possibility unless someone comes out with an app to bypass the password.
I work for a VERY LARGE company that runs our exchange server, i cannot edit those settings.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try using TouchDown then.
Soup.
Thanks for the suggestions but this should not be necessary ! WTF. Who should I be pissed off at, HTC or my IT department for requiring a password.
What's weird is when I had an iPhone, I was required to put a password. When I switched to the Droid, It never prompted me for one. Now that I've switched to the EVO, its asking me for one but casues these endless reboots.
Like Trip, I cannot ask my IT dept to remove the use of a lock code. I work for a City Government that shares lots of data sensitive material via email (I know, dumb right) and I NEED access to it.
jaypeezee said:
Soup.
Thanks for the suggestions but this should not be necessary ! WTF. Who should I be pissed off at, HTC or my IT department for requiring a password.
What's weird is when I had an iPhone, I was required to put a password. When I switched to the Droid, It never prompted me for one. Now that I've switched to the EVO, its asking me for one but casues these endless reboots.
Like Trip, I cannot ask my IT dept to remove the use of a lock code. I work for a City Government that shares lots of data sensitive material via email (I know, dumb right) and I NEED access to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sprint or Google is to blame here. It's Sprint's build of 2.1 that has the problem. I talked to them today and they acknowledge the problem and say that the fix won't come until 2.2 is released.
Everyone needs to call Sprint and complain in order to have a fix pushed out sooner than the 2.2 release date.
In the meantime, someone give TouchDown a shot and let us know if that is a feasable workaround or not. I would but I've already turned the password policy off for my account on my Exchange server.
I made this happen to a demo unit I was playing with (while the rep at Radio Shack continued to try to activate my phone - took nearly 2 hours to complete).
I was playing with HTC Sense's "Scenes" feature. I believe I was switching scenes too quickly, it automatically rebooted itself, and as soon as it started up again and got to the lock screen, I tried to use it and it rebooted again. I allowed it to reboot, and instead of immediately trying to unlock the screen, I let it sit and fully load, and it worked properly.
I don't know what the issue is, but I have yet to experience it with my own Evo... yet.
Soupskin said:
Sprint or Google is to blame here. It's Sprint's build of 2.1 that has the problem. I talked to them today and they acknowledge the problem and say that the fix won't come until 2.2 is released.
Everyone needs to call Sprint and complain in order to have a fix pushed out sooner than the 2.2 release date.
In the meantime, someone give TouchDown a shot and let us know if that is a feasable workaround or not. I would but I've already turned the password policy off for my account on my Exchange server.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did call Sprint! The lady was a complete dumbass, i told here "i know exactly what the problem is there's no need for me to go BACK to the store" ... she basically read off a computer telling me what to do
drove me nuts
TripFlex said:
I did call Sprint! The lady was a complete dumbass, i told here "i know exactly what the problem is there's no need for me to go BACK to the store" ... she basically read off a computer telling me what to do
drove me nuts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow.. suck.
I guess I got a rare one. The dude I talked to actually listened, put me on hold to speak with colleagues, and then confirmed and added my number to some list of affected people.
Hmm I just got off the phone with a Tech Support rep who sounded like he knew what he was talking about.
According to him, there are two UPDATES, an HTC system update (SD card issue) and a Firmware Update (fixes exchange issue)... he told me to go and manually check for updates - one of these should fix the issue ? does this sound legit /

[Q] No longer receiving sms in stock messaging app

Using stock sense and sprint/gv integration and i can receive texts in gv as well as send them from the stock messaging app and gv.
i've contacted sprint on the phone a couple times and got to the highest level tech support and they couldn't fix it. also tried the sprint store and they just want to give me another evo. they have one on order, but i'd much rather keep my rooted evo! the new one will likely have 2.3 installed stock and i'll need to wait for root.
this really doesn't seem like a hardware issue anyways, seems like it's a network side problem.
i've made sure sms forwarding is enabled to my mobile number on gv, tried factory and hard resets multiple times. tried unintegrating and reintegrating my sprint number with gv.
the weird thing is even when i'm unintewgrated and using just vanilla sprint i don't receive texts at all. i can send them, make and receive calls too but never does a text come to my phone.
there doesn't seem to be anyone else reporting this problem i8n my area.
phone is rooted, stock rom, the problem started after iu hard reset my phone. i was hoping a hard reset would fix some buis i was experiencing with the GB update. i can't say for sure this was because i hard reset, buit it's a huge coincidence that it happened at approximately the same time. i can't think of any logical reason the hard reset would affect my sms this way.
btw i installed a rooted version of 2.3.3 as well as the latest combo radio pack. that was over a week ago though and this issue just cropped up yesterday.
hopefully this post wasn't too jumbled and i gave enough info, any ideas?
edit: crap, should be in the Q&A forum, please move if necessary :/
Try updating your profile
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
i've done that a bunch of times, so did sprint.
[Q] If you call one of the people you text, does the return text from them show up after the call?
dpilcher said:
[Q] If you call one of the people you text, does the return text from them show up after the call?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it doesn't.
Brandito said:
No it doesn't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not what I was going through a few months back then, but I could make calls but not receive calls. I don't use GV either so probably not the same issue. Just thought I would ask, turns out those issues for me was my 3G going out on my phone. Ended up getting it replaced.
Hope you find a solution, I know how frustrating it is.
dpilcher said:
Not what I was going through a few months back then, but I could make calls but not receive calls. I don't use GV either so probably not the same issue. Just thought I would ask, turns out those issues for me was my 3G going out on my phone. Ended up getting it replaced.
Hope you find a solution, I know how frustrating it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sprint is ordering me another phone, hoping against it being a refurb, though then i likely have to wait for a new root method for gingerbread.
preferably they'd get it working on my current evo. i really think it has to be a network issue.
Brandito said:
sprint is ordering me another phone, hoping against it being a refurb, though then i likely have to wait for a new root method for gingerbread.
preferably they'd get it working on my current evo. i really think it has to be a network issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should be good, I had two replacement refurbs as early as last week and they both had 3.7 on them. Watch for the sunspot on the screen when it boots initially (bright white spot in the lower half towards the middle), both of the refurb replacements had the bad screen. You can't see it if it boots all the way..you'll have to go to a bright screen to see it but it will just get worse to where you will see it all the time. Finally the rep gave me a NIB 004..also 3.7. Just make sure they don't update it, I would ask if you could do the activation as well so you can look for the screen issue on initial boot. Good Luck! Guess I didn't have to quote due to it being right above mine...lmao
Think they'll give me any trouble if I turn in my phone still rooted? I don't feel like unrooting it, not to mention if the new/refurb doesn't fix my issue I'm going to keep my current evo anyways.
I mean they've already approved me for the replacement.
I had the same problem
I had the exact same situation happen last weekend. All I did to fix it was to flash back to a Stock Sense 2.2 ROM, Update Profile/PRL, and then open EPST and Reset Data connection using THIS little tutorial.
foxtrotftw said:
I had the exact same situation happen last weekend. All I did to fix it was to flash back to a Stock Sense 2.2 ROM, Update Profile/PRL, and then open EPST and Reset Data connection using THIS little tutorial.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can't even get it to do anything after entering ##3283#, never even pops up a dialog.
foxtrotftw said:
I had the exact same situation happen last weekend. All I did to fix it was to flash back to a Stock Sense 2.2 ROM, Update Profile/PRL, and then open EPST and Reset Data connection using THIS little tutorial.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya..did all that and then some to mine..no dice. But good advice. Hardware issue won't be solved by software no matter the method I found out. Believe me..even went as far as unrooting and seeing if stock would be the same..it was.
The unrooting process is very easy and with the replacement coming in, why not. Sounds like hardware anyway. Here is what I did to go back and forth:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1113620
You can also look at the stickies at the top of general/Q&A for options.
Good Luck.
dpilcher said:
Ya..did all that and then some to mine..no dice. But good advice. Hardware issue won't be solved by software no matter the method I found out. Believe me..even went as far as unrooting and seeing if stock would be the same..it was.
The unrooting process is very easy and with the replacement coming in, why not. Sounds like hardware anyway. Here is what I did to go back and forth:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1113620
You can also look at the stickies at the top of general/Q&A for options.
Good Luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
doesn't seem like hardware at all to me though. and if that's the case and I unroot and end up keeping this phone i just shot myself in the foot by locking my bootloader.
i wish i would have had them try activating another phone today to see if another phone would be able to receive the texts.
No need to unroot! Go to voice.google.com, click on the "gear" icon to go into Voice Settings. Find your gv/sprint phone number, click Edit and check the checkbox for "receive text messages on this device." Hit save, and enjoy.
jesuspgt said:
No need to unroot! Go to voice.google.com, click on the "gear" icon to go into Voice Settings. Find your gv/sprint phone number, click Edit and check the checkbox for "receive text messages on this device." Hit save, and enjoy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's only the FIRST thing I tried, along with unchecking, rechecking, removing integration, readding it..twice! and about a dozen combinations of applying settings, checking and unchecking boxes and finger crossing.
Brandito said:
that's only the FIRST thing I tried, along with unchecking, rechecking, removing integration, readding it..twice! and about a dozen combinations of applying settings, checking and unchecking boxes and finger crossing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apologies, but you didn't mention that you did this in your post. Had no way of knowing that you've already tried this.
jesuspgt said:
Apologies, but you didn't mention that you did this in your post. Had no way of knowing that you've already tried this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually did in my first post, though that post is a bit of a mess I realize, it's hard to really put everything I've already tried in any neat order.
No worries either way, any suggestions are welcome at this point.

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