Database Users

Magician USB OTG Evidence? (USB Host)

Ok,
I was reading a post over at the PSP Linux forum about suspicions that the PSP has USB On-The-Go abilities. USB On-The-Go basically means a device can be a USB Host or a USB Client, and is usually restricted to a a certain class of USB devices - eg you might want a USB OTG camera to only act as a host with Storage Devices.
Now to quote this page http://www.beyondlogic.org/usb/otghost.htm ...
As a device can be either a host (A-device) or peripheral (B-device) and that the USB specification calls for different types of connectors for upstream and downstream ports, the OTG spec introduced two additional connectors. One such connector is a mini A/B connector allowing a mini A or mini B connector to plug into the one recepticle. A dual-role device is required to be able to detect whether a Mini-A or Mini-B plug is inserted by determining if the ID pin (an extra pin introduced by OTG) is connected to ground.
This basically says that tradictional USB uses A connectors for Hosts and B connectors for Clients. Because they needed to allow OTG devices to be used as both a Host and a Client, they designed a port that could accept both mini A and mini B connectors. Unsuprisingly, this is called a mini AB connector
So, for small USB Client devices, a mini B connector is used. They look like this:
http://www.cypressindustries.com/products/images/ccmusbb-32005-201.gif
For small USB OTG devices, the new miniAB port is used. They look like this:
http://www.cypressindustries.com/products/images/ccmusbab-32005-700.gif
so go look on the bottom of the Magician. Low and behold, a mini AB connector! In fact you'll see the cable they gave you with your magician is a mini B but it still fits into the mini AB connector on the jam, even though it's a slightly different shape.
Now, it could be USB Host was planned or the port was added to allow backwards compatability with the Magician2 or whatever, but all the same it's a pretty interesting feature, given that a company can probably source mini B connectors for cheaper than mini AB, (as not many companies are making them yet).

So... does the Jam have USB host functionality or not???
If so, here's some drivers to take advantage of this function. Use at your own risk.
http://www.deje.gmxhome.de/
http://www.anypakusa.com/PPC/
Maybe one could connect the jam to a hard drive???

I've did some research, and if the Magician supports USB On The Go (why else would there be a MiniAB connector on the bottom of the device in stead of a normal MiniB (4p) connector) it should be able to play USB Host.
I'm ordering a MiniA to A Female connector and I'm hoping it will work out so I can connect a USB Flashdrive, GPS reciever etc.etc.

Why do people need USB host on their Magician? I can only imagine using an USB keyboard, but everything else I can do with bluetooth and my 4 GB MMC card.
And for using my Magician as "USB-Brick" I use this here:
http://www.softick.com/pocket-pc/cardexport2/

Well... I don't like wireless That's the most important reason.
I want to use a wired GPS-reciever in my car.
I want to be able to connect a USB mass storage driver.
And I'm a geek who just wants to explore every possible option
So why shouldn't I give it a try

esackbauer said:
Why do people need USB host on their Magician? I can only imagine using an USB keyboard, but everything else I can do with bluetooth and my 4 GB MMC card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I think most of the people are interested on the fact that you can actually use an ext hdd, e.g. you have 80GB+ of videos, mp3s that you play on your unit (although I doubt it is able to power the 2.5" type). You can print documents from your unit to a printer, get your pictures off your dig camera, use a USB ext wifi, etc.

hanmin said:
Well, I think most of the people are interested on the fact that you can actually use an ext hdd, e.g. you have 80GB+ of videos, mp3s that you play on your unit (although I doubt it is able to power the 2.5" type). You can print documents from your unit to a printer, get your pictures off your dig camera, use a USB ext wifi, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excuse me for being a pain, but all these options are nonsense IMO, because Magician is the ultra portable device.
What is the sense of attaching a bulky 80GB hdd and cables to the Magician? To have its batteries empty in only 15 minutes?
Printing can be done wireless via infrared (HP printers) or WLAN, digicam pictures I can load by directly inserting its card in Magician. USB Wifi is also a joke as it drains the battery immediately.
If you want all these options, do it right and buy a Subnotebook and a 3G UMTS PC-Card.

esackbauer said:
Excuse me for being a pain, but all these options are nonsense IMO, because Magician is the ultra portable device.
What is the sense of attaching a bulky 80GB hdd and cables to the Magician? To have its batteries empty in only 15 minutes?
Printing can be done wireless via infrared (HP printers) or WLAN, digicam pictures I can load by directly inserting its card in Magician. USB Wifi is also a joke as it drains the battery immediately.
If you want all these options, do it right and buy a Subnotebook and a 3G UMTS PC-Card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ditto

I really doubt it supports USB Host. The board definately supports it, but HTC don't implement it. I think this will yield no results....
Hope you prove me wrong
And dude...... 1.8" Hard Disk Drives are TINY!!! so just quit being a spoil sport

Of course I wouldn't be connecting an periperal eventhough how small it is while walking around, but while at home or in the car sounds ok.

Well USB OTG would be great as I could dump all of my pictures on my digital camera (1GB card) onto my Charmers 4GB SD card. On holiday and stuff this would be really handy so I don't run out of space.

to be honest its not about what you can do with it, its partly bragging rights, hey look i can do so and so on my phone.... etc..

I, for one, would like to see a USB host hack.
Yes, there are SDIO wifis.
Yes, there are SDIO cards that allow wall projector connection.
But these require that I give up my memory card, where I store my stuff, making these things have only limited use.*
I could use Bluetooth, but:
- A standalone BT <-> Wifi bridge that isn't a PC or doesn't connect to a PC does not yet exist. There is a Bluetooth portable GPS receiver, but that's it.
- Projectors with BT enabled are FREAKING EXPENSIVE. Not to mention they aren't common. I've always wondered what that stray miniusb port on the more common small business models are for...
So why not buy a laptop, you ask?
Well, I already have a PC.
If you're suggesting I buy one, either you have never carried one around before, or you're so rich you can buy the lightest, least bulky ones without burning a hole in your pocket.
*That Sandisk 256/Wifi can't quite contain everything I'd want on my 1gig, leaving my only recourse to be (hopefully) the Eye-Film which is currently only in prototype stage. Sandisk already EOL'd that product anyway.

There are only 2 possibilities to get USB Host:
1. Wait for the WM2005 ROM for Magician, maybe HTC implemented the USB Host driver with it ;-)
2. Wait for HTC Trinity, maybe it has USB Host.
However, both options are not very realistic, because a WLAN USB Stick pulls 500 mA from the battery, so you get about 30 minutes battery life...
An USB Host has to provide power to the connected devices, and this is the reason why we probably won't ever see it on a mass market device.

You think you connect any USB device on that Host and it works? Like printers, scanners etc? Sorry, but you're dreaming. You need drivers for this and they just don't exist. There are no USB GPS mice that work with Pocket PCs and there are no Wifi sticks that work with Pocket PCs, period.
The only thing you could do is connect some mass storage device and use this. Besides that I'm 100% sure that the Magician doesn't support USB Host functionality, period.
So get a new PPC with Wifi and use Wifi disks etc. USB host would be nice but no Phone Edition device that I know of has it.

It would be SOOOOOO nice to connect a harddisk to my magician. A 4GB SD Card cannot store all my MP3s. And I want them all in my Car.

Dandie said:
So get a new PPC with Wifi and use Wifi disks etc. USB host would be nice but no Phone Edition device that I know of has it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, Eten M500 supports it.

You need drivers for this and they just don't exist
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Certain drivers do exist; like the JetCet unofficial ones. You'd also need to load drivers for SD-IO cards as well (IIRC the Sandisk Wifi/Mem combo needed a driver), so drivers are actually a non-issue. What matters is that it can be done.

jackleung said:
Actually, Eten M500 supports it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Magician also supports USB host, because
your BT is attached there. So what? It is the 500mA
current source and the electrical connection to
the USB socket that counts.

Currents not a problem i should think. All USB devices are standard 0.5A supply.. and all USB devices use the same supply.

USB on Universal

Hi,
I'm looking to buy a Universal but I've a question on the USB port.
Has anyone tried connecting a USB hard drive directly to the Universal? I have a Archive Gmini 220 and I was wondering if the Universal would see it as an external drive and if this is the case can it run media on the drive such as MP3 or AVI files? Also has anyone tried connecting a card reader to read CF or Memory sticks etc.
Any rumours of a Universal with internal hard drive?
Captaink

Olnly thing i've heard is it does support but peoples who already tried says nevr made it work.

That's because just as with a normal PC it needs drivers to work with your device.
It's just a matter of time........ :lol:

rob_van_triet said:
That's because just as with a normal PC it needs drivers to work with your device.
It's just a matter of time........ :lol:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. This picture
http://www.tekguru.co.uk/reviews/images/xda_exec/Exec_012.jpg
clearly shows the mini-AB receptacle
http://www.hardware-bastelkiste.de/usb.html

Having a USB socket doesnt mean its a USB host!!!
It has to have that mini usb socket so that you can sync and charge, as they dropped the old style 21pin connector now. Its just like the Magician with usb only now.
There have been rumours it supports USB host mode, but ive not heard any confirmation or proof.

in this review of the device they say it does host
http://www.tekguru.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7031

Pyrofer said:
Having a USB socket doesnt mean its a USB host!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The PXA270 has a builtin USB host and
can operate as an OTG device. The guys
at HTC must be really sick if they have
not wired it.
I don't get only one thing: what USB 2.0
means here ? OTG ?

in which case it seems that HP and DELL are sick aswell
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=26742&highlight=usb
8)

htc universal usb host driver

Anyone got a wm5/ce5 usb host driver for htc universal (pxa270 intel arm processor)? I'm trying to write one, but if someone could save me the effort, please do? I know it will work, as it does under linux.

USB Host on a universal will be great. Didn't know it works under Linux.

driver for view a universal as a sd writer and reader or a driver for the universal for attach a pendrive to a universal?

drivers for attaching a pendrive.
A USB host driver enables you to hook up USB devices like memory key, keyboard/mouse etc. to the universal. This feature is only available on a few pda models made by toshiba, fujitsu, asus, acer etc.
imesh said:
driver for view a universal as a sd writer and reader or a driver for the universal for attach a pendrive to a universal?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't it have to be supported by the hardware? As far as I know the Universal does not have USB host so getting a driver wouldn't be much help...

apparently it works under linux so the hardware must support it

Good question. I need the host driver and then a driver for mass storage (e.g. pen drive, hard driver, etc), HID (for keyboard mouse), etc. The htc universal has a usb host controller built into the arm processor (pxa270). The problem is that it also has a usb device controller build in which takes precedent for the mini usb out, so you can use activesyn. However, with the right bit of code you can reconfigure port 2 to act as a usb host. The other problem is that port 2 doesn't have any power (but that is easy to fix with an external power source from a usb hub or battery [I use a single AA battery, (giving 5 volts at 0.5-1 amp), that lasts for 2 hours]).

hi any success yet with the usb host function? is it possible or just a hoax?
nothing personal it just seems that some ppl like to make fun about this topic and spread hoax!
u have any evidences that it works under linux?
maybe this link is helping you in creating a driver!
http://www.deje.gmxhome.de/index.html
cheers
Mike

Suspect that you will also need the proper USB host cable that is used on the Sharp Zaurus under LINUX to let the Universal know that you want the USB port to work in host mode, they are about £10 & available from here http://www.figlabs.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/33
I have the Zaurus & Universal so I know the cable fits but I don't have a driver to test.
Mike

Mikew said:
I have the Zaurus & Universal so I know the cable fits but I don't have a driver to test.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The USB host is used by Linux on HTC phones, but not for the external USB connector
(BT on magician, and gsm_data on some others http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Serial)

Mikew said:
Suspect that you will also need the proper USB host cable that is used on the Sharp Zaurus under LINUX to let the Universal know that you want the USB port to work in host mode, they are about £10 & available from here http://www.figlabs.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/33
I have the Zaurus & Universal so I know the cable fits but I don't have a driver to test.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have one for wm2003, I not if it worked in wm05.
Yuo can try it?

any success yet??

Dont think I would want to try a WM2003 driver on a WM5 device.
Mike

Mikew said:
Dont think I would want to try a WM2003 driver on a WM5 device.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can do one backup before installing it.
I have installed it in my Universal and I have not had problems with wm5, but it has not worked with my standar cable

I've had no success with it either.. I have a cable that has the correct connectors.. originally used for connecting a usb pen drive to my lcd picture frame.. but like I said no luck with this RATOC driver.

Mikew said:
Suspect that you will also need the proper USB host cable that is used on the Sharp Zaurus under LINUX to let the Universal know that you want the USB port to work in host mode, they are about £10 & available from here http://www.figlabs.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/33
I have the Zaurus & Universal so I know the cable fits but I don't have a driver to test.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think that this cable is not enough, what about a 5v power source for the usb pen drive you'd connect?
your universal couldn't supply that, then you need a usb cable that can connect to a power source aswell.

You need to use a powered USB hub if the slave device requires power, there are one or two hubs that run on batteries so you can still be mobile.
You will need a hub if you plan to use more than 1 USB device at the same time.
Mike

allmycrud said:
Anyone got a wm5/ce5 usb host driver for htc universal (pxa270 intel arm processor)? I'm trying to write one, but if someone could save me the effort, please do? I know it will work, as it does under linux.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't know we had it in Linux yet??
In any case, while many devices do use a USB Host or USB Slave chip from a higher level, I believe the Universal talks to its USB as a raw stream device, and therefore can (and does, on occasion) act as a pure Serial communication channel (no discernable protocol beyond 8,n,1) or, therefore, any other type of serial-based channel. Yes, what I am saying is that you could, in fact, hook up a Serial ATA hard disk to an RS232 or USB port directly, so long as the device with the port has low enough level access to the port to absolutely control the data I/O.
The problem you face, however, is that to use the USB port as if the device were the host, you would first need to remove or disable whatever makes it work as the slave. In Windows Mobile that's really not an easy job given the number of different devices and different drivers, some with USB chips, some without... On many devices I can imagine that doing that alone would really bugger up general operation. What happens, for example, to ActiveSync when you suddenly get rid of the port it usually talks to for sync?

Mikew said:
You need to use a powered USB hub if the slave device requires power, there are one or two hubs that run on batteries so you can still be mobile.
You will need a hub if you plan to use more than 1 USB device at the same time.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some USB devices have batteries, or have their own power supply You can also get USB cables with an extra (mains or battery) feed wired to the USB's power lines in parallel.

whatever happened to this thread?
allmycrud have you seen the thread from Zeno with USB host drivers?
there is at least one report of it working on a Universal, but I can't get it working on wm6.1... still have hopes though, as all reports suggest that USB host is possible on a uni... can never get verification from anyone though...

USB Host Problem

Hello,
I use Jungo's WinDriver USB to allow my software to communicate with various digital cameras. It works on every USB host equipped Pocket PC except the X7500, any ideas as to what HTC has done differently with this model? I`ve tested under both the standard WM5 ROM and the 2.19 WM6 ROM with the same results. The driver detects the first attach and detach, but not the subsequent ones. Any ideas would be much appreciated before I FedEx my poor X7500 half way around to world to Jungo..

do you have the 4in1 cable? That has a host mode usb port on it!
No need for funny software. The port on the side (miniusb) is not host, but the one on the 4in1 cable is I beleive.
Kick me anyone if im talking out my bumcrack.

I have the 4 in one cable WinDriver is an SDK that allows user mode software to talk to USB devices without writing full device drivers. In my case, it allows me to develop drivers for Canon and Nikon cameras that Windows CE does not otherwise support.

Please excuse my ignorance here, but does this mean i could plug a external hard drive in and read/write to it?
Thanks in advance
The pilgrim

Yes, I have plugged in USB thumb drives and they are recognized. Power drain is the issue with external USB drives. If you have one with external power input, it should work. I may be testing this shortly. I will repost once I have some deffinitive results.

the_pilgrim said:
Please excuse my ignorance here, but does this mean i could plug a external hard drive in and read/write to it?
Thanks in advance
The pilgrim
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all. Some will work, some will experience compatibility issues, and some will have problems due to power consumption. The best way to find out is test it with the host cable attached and see. If the device doesn't initially work try a few things first....try plugging it in to a power source if it's capable of that, try soft reset while device is plugged in, etc. After trying a few different things, let us know the results and what model you have. Maybe post it to the peripheral compatibility thread. Thanks!

I have bought HTC 4 in 1 CABLE and another 4 in 1 usb from poundland and both work perfectly when you connect external pen drives and mouse.

Does the X1 support the Touch Pro's TV-Out Cable?

Does the X1 support the Touch Pro's TV-Out Cable?

No. The input slot between the two devices are different.

does the x1 support ANY tv out solution?

nope.. Unless SE suddenly decide they have included the necessary stuff inside the device (and some mysterious connectors that are invisble)..

I plugged n95's tv out cable, but nothing happened..

Its funny you guys mentioned this,
I found a registry in my pohone...
\\registry\HKLM\Drivers\BuiltIn\TVOUT
There must be a way to change a key or mak a new one to support tv out using the mini usb connecttion because the 3.5mm jack will not support it.

touch pro use the extra pins in their custom extUSB for video out
x1 got a plane normal mini usb which only include usb signals
for a device to be able to use other usb devices it require the device to
support usb host
preciously few support that seem that the manufactures disable it on purpose in
the hardware connections
maybe because being host require a device to provide .5 amps to power devices
and they would prob get tons of support issues reported by people trying to connect
all sorts of usb devices they used on their pc's to the pda without the pda having the
drivers for those devices