Database Users

Magician USB OTG Evidence? (USB Host)

Ok,
I was reading a post over at the PSP Linux forum about suspicions that the PSP has USB On-The-Go abilities. USB On-The-Go basically means a device can be a USB Host or a USB Client, and is usually restricted to a a certain class of USB devices - eg you might want a USB OTG camera to only act as a host with Storage Devices.
Now to quote this page http://www.beyondlogic.org/usb/otghost.htm ...
As a device can be either a host (A-device) or peripheral (B-device) and that the USB specification calls for different types of connectors for upstream and downstream ports, the OTG spec introduced two additional connectors. One such connector is a mini A/B connector allowing a mini A or mini B connector to plug into the one recepticle. A dual-role device is required to be able to detect whether a Mini-A or Mini-B plug is inserted by determining if the ID pin (an extra pin introduced by OTG) is connected to ground.
This basically says that tradictional USB uses A connectors for Hosts and B connectors for Clients. Because they needed to allow OTG devices to be used as both a Host and a Client, they designed a port that could accept both mini A and mini B connectors. Unsuprisingly, this is called a mini AB connector
So, for small USB Client devices, a mini B connector is used. They look like this:
http://www.cypressindustries.com/products/images/ccmusbb-32005-201.gif
For small USB OTG devices, the new miniAB port is used. They look like this:
http://www.cypressindustries.com/products/images/ccmusbab-32005-700.gif
so go look on the bottom of the Magician. Low and behold, a mini AB connector! In fact you'll see the cable they gave you with your magician is a mini B but it still fits into the mini AB connector on the jam, even though it's a slightly different shape.
Now, it could be USB Host was planned or the port was added to allow backwards compatability with the Magician2 or whatever, but all the same it's a pretty interesting feature, given that a company can probably source mini B connectors for cheaper than mini AB, (as not many companies are making them yet).

So... does the Jam have USB host functionality or not???
If so, here's some drivers to take advantage of this function. Use at your own risk.
http://www.deje.gmxhome.de/
http://www.anypakusa.com/PPC/
Maybe one could connect the jam to a hard drive???

I've did some research, and if the Magician supports USB On The Go (why else would there be a MiniAB connector on the bottom of the device in stead of a normal MiniB (4p) connector) it should be able to play USB Host.
I'm ordering a MiniA to A Female connector and I'm hoping it will work out so I can connect a USB Flashdrive, GPS reciever etc.etc.

Why do people need USB host on their Magician? I can only imagine using an USB keyboard, but everything else I can do with bluetooth and my 4 GB MMC card.
And for using my Magician as "USB-Brick" I use this here:
http://www.softick.com/pocket-pc/cardexport2/

Well... I don't like wireless That's the most important reason.
I want to use a wired GPS-reciever in my car.
I want to be able to connect a USB mass storage driver.
And I'm a geek who just wants to explore every possible option
So why shouldn't I give it a try

esackbauer said:
Why do people need USB host on their Magician? I can only imagine using an USB keyboard, but everything else I can do with bluetooth and my 4 GB MMC card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I think most of the people are interested on the fact that you can actually use an ext hdd, e.g. you have 80GB+ of videos, mp3s that you play on your unit (although I doubt it is able to power the 2.5" type). You can print documents from your unit to a printer, get your pictures off your dig camera, use a USB ext wifi, etc.

hanmin said:
Well, I think most of the people are interested on the fact that you can actually use an ext hdd, e.g. you have 80GB+ of videos, mp3s that you play on your unit (although I doubt it is able to power the 2.5" type). You can print documents from your unit to a printer, get your pictures off your dig camera, use a USB ext wifi, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excuse me for being a pain, but all these options are nonsense IMO, because Magician is the ultra portable device.
What is the sense of attaching a bulky 80GB hdd and cables to the Magician? To have its batteries empty in only 15 minutes?
Printing can be done wireless via infrared (HP printers) or WLAN, digicam pictures I can load by directly inserting its card in Magician. USB Wifi is also a joke as it drains the battery immediately.
If you want all these options, do it right and buy a Subnotebook and a 3G UMTS PC-Card.

esackbauer said:
Excuse me for being a pain, but all these options are nonsense IMO, because Magician is the ultra portable device.
What is the sense of attaching a bulky 80GB hdd and cables to the Magician? To have its batteries empty in only 15 minutes?
Printing can be done wireless via infrared (HP printers) or WLAN, digicam pictures I can load by directly inserting its card in Magician. USB Wifi is also a joke as it drains the battery immediately.
If you want all these options, do it right and buy a Subnotebook and a 3G UMTS PC-Card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ditto

I really doubt it supports USB Host. The board definately supports it, but HTC don't implement it. I think this will yield no results....
Hope you prove me wrong
And dude...... 1.8" Hard Disk Drives are TINY!!! so just quit being a spoil sport

Of course I wouldn't be connecting an periperal eventhough how small it is while walking around, but while at home or in the car sounds ok.

Well USB OTG would be great as I could dump all of my pictures on my digital camera (1GB card) onto my Charmers 4GB SD card. On holiday and stuff this would be really handy so I don't run out of space.

to be honest its not about what you can do with it, its partly bragging rights, hey look i can do so and so on my phone.... etc..

I, for one, would like to see a USB host hack.
Yes, there are SDIO wifis.
Yes, there are SDIO cards that allow wall projector connection.
But these require that I give up my memory card, where I store my stuff, making these things have only limited use.*
I could use Bluetooth, but:
- A standalone BT <-> Wifi bridge that isn't a PC or doesn't connect to a PC does not yet exist. There is a Bluetooth portable GPS receiver, but that's it.
- Projectors with BT enabled are FREAKING EXPENSIVE. Not to mention they aren't common. I've always wondered what that stray miniusb port on the more common small business models are for...
So why not buy a laptop, you ask?
Well, I already have a PC.
If you're suggesting I buy one, either you have never carried one around before, or you're so rich you can buy the lightest, least bulky ones without burning a hole in your pocket.
*That Sandisk 256/Wifi can't quite contain everything I'd want on my 1gig, leaving my only recourse to be (hopefully) the Eye-Film which is currently only in prototype stage. Sandisk already EOL'd that product anyway.

There are only 2 possibilities to get USB Host:
1. Wait for the WM2005 ROM for Magician, maybe HTC implemented the USB Host driver with it ;-)
2. Wait for HTC Trinity, maybe it has USB Host.
However, both options are not very realistic, because a WLAN USB Stick pulls 500 mA from the battery, so you get about 30 minutes battery life...
An USB Host has to provide power to the connected devices, and this is the reason why we probably won't ever see it on a mass market device.

You think you connect any USB device on that Host and it works? Like printers, scanners etc? Sorry, but you're dreaming. You need drivers for this and they just don't exist. There are no USB GPS mice that work with Pocket PCs and there are no Wifi sticks that work with Pocket PCs, period.
The only thing you could do is connect some mass storage device and use this. Besides that I'm 100% sure that the Magician doesn't support USB Host functionality, period.
So get a new PPC with Wifi and use Wifi disks etc. USB host would be nice but no Phone Edition device that I know of has it.

It would be SOOOOOO nice to connect a harddisk to my magician. A 4GB SD Card cannot store all my MP3s. And I want them all in my Car.

Dandie said:
So get a new PPC with Wifi and use Wifi disks etc. USB host would be nice but no Phone Edition device that I know of has it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, Eten M500 supports it.

You need drivers for this and they just don't exist
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Certain drivers do exist; like the JetCet unofficial ones. You'd also need to load drivers for SD-IO cards as well (IIRC the Sandisk Wifi/Mem combo needed a driver), so drivers are actually a non-issue. What matters is that it can be done.

jackleung said:
Actually, Eten M500 supports it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Magician also supports USB host, because
your BT is attached there. So what? It is the 500mA
current source and the electrical connection to
the USB socket that counts.

Currents not a problem i should think. All USB devices are standard 0.5A supply.. and all USB devices use the same supply.

USB on Universal

Hi,
I'm looking to buy a Universal but I've a question on the USB port.
Has anyone tried connecting a USB hard drive directly to the Universal? I have a Archive Gmini 220 and I was wondering if the Universal would see it as an external drive and if this is the case can it run media on the drive such as MP3 or AVI files? Also has anyone tried connecting a card reader to read CF or Memory sticks etc.
Any rumours of a Universal with internal hard drive?
Captaink

Olnly thing i've heard is it does support but peoples who already tried says nevr made it work.

That's because just as with a normal PC it needs drivers to work with your device.
It's just a matter of time........ :lol:

rob_van_triet said:
That's because just as with a normal PC it needs drivers to work with your device.
It's just a matter of time........ :lol:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. This picture
http://www.tekguru.co.uk/reviews/images/xda_exec/Exec_012.jpg
clearly shows the mini-AB receptacle
http://www.hardware-bastelkiste.de/usb.html

Having a USB socket doesnt mean its a USB host!!!
It has to have that mini usb socket so that you can sync and charge, as they dropped the old style 21pin connector now. Its just like the Magician with usb only now.
There have been rumours it supports USB host mode, but ive not heard any confirmation or proof.

in this review of the device they say it does host
http://www.tekguru.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7031

Pyrofer said:
Having a USB socket doesnt mean its a USB host!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The PXA270 has a builtin USB host and
can operate as an OTG device. The guys
at HTC must be really sick if they have
not wired it.
I don't get only one thing: what USB 2.0
means here ? OTG ?

in which case it seems that HP and DELL are sick aswell
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=26742&highlight=usb
8)

USB Host

anyone has tried yet usb host functionality ? I found the drivers of ETEN M600/G500 but not tried yet... processor should be the same so the trinity should support this function.

Thank you for your enquiry, the p3600 was not designed to allow usb memory expansion as such there is no current or planned method to enable what you have requested.
It may be possible to find a 3rd party solution but this would not be supported by ourselves but the solution supplier.
Should you have any other problem, please do not hesitate to call us. Your Local number can be found at http://www.europe.htc.com/support/cs_by_phone.html
Best regards,
HTC Support

Guybrush said:
I found the drivers of ETEN M600/G500 but not tried yet...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you share either a link or the file?

Should be this

OK, I'm with Hermes, but anyway... According to the specs, E-Tens have S3C2440 while we have SC32442, but they should be the same. The schematics of the evaluation board (p.6) shows that there are two USB hosts: one from DN0/DP0 pins, the second from DN1/DP1 pins. The latter can also be configured as USB Device... and that's what we have at our MiniUSB connector.
So... if E-Ten uses the first USB Host pins, we're out of luck. If they've implemented it in shared mode, the driver should work. But I have a reason for a doubt: M600/M500 have separate I/O pins for USB host and device, while the connector itself is provided on the cradle. If they made it shared, it would be more easy to implement host/device sharing in the cradle rather than in the device...
A soldering iron may help, but I don't want to loose the warranty yet.
An owner of the Platform Builder may recompile the driver to utilize the shared pins as well. That's a better solution.
If you want to make an adapter for tests, note, that you need to supply +5V from an external power supply (which can be a PC USB port), and that you don't need to cross the pins: DN1 is D- for both host and device, and DP1 is D+ for both. Nothing but connectors and wires should be required.

One more note: a USB Host driver for a shared connector should shut down USB Device driver, something similar that WM5torage does. This also makes me doubt that E-Ten uses shared pins, and that's why I believe that a different driver is required.
But it should be possible!

OK, I've made an adaptor from MiniUSB male (to TyTN), USB A female (for devices), and MiniUSB female for power supply.
In the MiniUSB male I shorted pins 4 and 5. At least this way I can use it for charging from other power supplies, and I think it hould not harm, because pin 4 on GND means USB Host for MiniUSB.
I've installed the above drivers, and also USB Mass Storage drivers (attached).
I have a USB mouse, a card rider (4 slots), an MP3 player, and an RS232 port.
Nothing but MP3 player showed any sign of an activity in all my tests.
The MP3 player shows "MASS CONNECT" on its screen if it detects USB activity. If it does not, it just turns to normal operations, showing that it takes power from USB. It turned to this mode after I installed the attached driver. But I see no a mounted disk on TyTN itself.
So, it works somehow, and I'm almost confident it can be made to work...
Probably I just did something wrong... Who else wants to try?

I must add that installed stuff didn't affect the USB Device from working: ActiveSync connects OK, and WM5torage 1.73 works as before.
Hardwarewise, there are a couple of things to try: disconnect pin 4 from GND at the phone side, disconnect power supply from the phone (providing it only to the attached device), or both...

i'm waiting connectors to try something by myself too. Thanks Lurker0 for all this tips.
thread about usb host from eten users
http://www.eten-users.net/index.php?showtopic=4328&st=0

I ended up with a hard reset Of course I made full backup before the tests.
I've found out that GPRS stopped working. The error messages were like "Modem not found" and "The current call should be finished before data connection" (from memory and ranslated from Russian).
Then I found out that hardware settings for OHCI are wrong:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Drivers\BuiltIn\OHCI]
"MemBase"=dword:B0900000
"Irq"=dword:0000000B
"UseExistingSettings"=dword:00000000
"MemLen"=dword:00001000
"SysIntr"=dword:00000011
"Order"=dword:00000001
"Index"=dword:00000001
"Dll"="ohci.dll"
"Prefix"="HCD"
"InterfaceType"=dword:00000000
IRQ should be 0x1A (from working registry and also Samsung datasheet), and memory base 0xB5900000.
I've deleted ohci.dll and usbd.dll, then uninstalled that HID driver to no available. I needed a working phone now, and decided to hard reset and restore.
It's strange why IRQ and MemBase were wrong. It may explain why it didn't work. Good I noticed them before tests.

Hey Lurker0
Did you get around to trying it again or was the project abandoned?
Would love to hear how you are going with this if you're still working on it =)

No, I did nothing since that.

HTC Herald compatibility
Does anyone know if the herald can host any USB devices

USB Host Problem

Hello,
I use Jungo's WinDriver USB to allow my software to communicate with various digital cameras. It works on every USB host equipped Pocket PC except the X7500, any ideas as to what HTC has done differently with this model? I`ve tested under both the standard WM5 ROM and the 2.19 WM6 ROM with the same results. The driver detects the first attach and detach, but not the subsequent ones. Any ideas would be much appreciated before I FedEx my poor X7500 half way around to world to Jungo..

do you have the 4in1 cable? That has a host mode usb port on it!
No need for funny software. The port on the side (miniusb) is not host, but the one on the 4in1 cable is I beleive.
Kick me anyone if im talking out my bumcrack.

I have the 4 in one cable WinDriver is an SDK that allows user mode software to talk to USB devices without writing full device drivers. In my case, it allows me to develop drivers for Canon and Nikon cameras that Windows CE does not otherwise support.

Please excuse my ignorance here, but does this mean i could plug a external hard drive in and read/write to it?
Thanks in advance
The pilgrim

Yes, I have plugged in USB thumb drives and they are recognized. Power drain is the issue with external USB drives. If you have one with external power input, it should work. I may be testing this shortly. I will repost once I have some deffinitive results.

the_pilgrim said:
Please excuse my ignorance here, but does this mean i could plug a external hard drive in and read/write to it?
Thanks in advance
The pilgrim
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all. Some will work, some will experience compatibility issues, and some will have problems due to power consumption. The best way to find out is test it with the host cable attached and see. If the device doesn't initially work try a few things first....try plugging it in to a power source if it's capable of that, try soft reset while device is plugged in, etc. After trying a few different things, let us know the results and what model you have. Maybe post it to the peripheral compatibility thread. Thanks!

I have bought HTC 4 in 1 CABLE and another 4 in 1 usb from poundland and both work perfectly when you connect external pen drives and mouse.

DEV: USB Experts

Ok,
If I were to make up an appropriate USB cable.....
1) Could I get my P3600 to talk to a USB control box that controls a light display which is normally driven by a Windows PC?
2) Is there any API facility in the Windows Mobile OS that allows a programmer to send and receive USB data packets or would I have to hit the PocketPC device hardware and bypass the OS?
3) Is any of the above possible?
Thank you very much

using usb it would not be posible
usb comes in 2 types masters and slaves
htc pda's are slaves they cant init comm with usb devices
much like that you cant connect an usb harddisk with an usb webcam

trinity have usb host...
you can see in samsung -
http://www.samsung.com/global/syste...roduct/2007/7/7/324600sc32442x__schamatic.pdf
in page 6 you have usb connection,
in trinity we have usb device, if you want to have usb host you will have to change the wiring inside the trinity.
for this change you will need to replace R75 from 470K to 15K, disconnect R83 and make a short from R76 to gnd with 15K(ohm), disconnect R82 and connect Vbus to 5V
(all the numbers of the resistors are for the Evaluation Board, in the trinity it will be diffrent numbers/connections)!!!!!
this will NOT work with your pc!!!! (need more modifications but can be done)
only host option!!!
you wont able to charge your trinity!!! (need more modifications but can be done)
but you can make switch like in the PDF
and then you will have usb host.
i have done some work on the sc32442 chip and it worked with usb host
(not the trinity).

no because the cpu have something dont mean that it's map'd out in the pcb of the manufacturers
and doing a hardware mod can kill the device and will 100% surely void the warrenty
and when all the hardware changes are then don then he needs to write a usb driver for wm to support the
hardware he want to talk to if non already exist
htc seem to use an external chip to do the usb stuff which is basic
only Athena and flame support it

tbuaron said:
trinity have usb host...
you can see in samsung -
http://www.samsung.com/global/syste...roduct/2007/7/7/324600sc32442x__schamatic.pdf
in page 6 you have usb connection,
in trinity we have usb device, if you want to have usb host you will have to change the wiring inside the trinity.
for this change you will need to replace R75 from 470K to 15K, disconnect R83 and make a short from R76 to gnd with 15K(ohm), disconnect R82 and connect Vbus to 5V
(all the numbers of the resistors are for the Evaluation Board, in the trinity it will be diffrent numbers/connections)!!!!!
this will NOT work with your pc!!!! (need more modifications but can be done)
only host option!!!
you wont able to charge your trinity!!! (need more modifications but can be done)
but you can make switch like in the PDF
and then you will have usb host.
i have done some work on the sc32442 chip and it worked with usb host
(not the trinity).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
uhm ... very nice impact!
are you know the jtag pins? must be the same like your embedded board.

This is not good...
What is the first HTC device to support USB Host?
Is it that big fat thing with a detachable keyboard (can't remember the name )?
Thanks for the replies.
PS One last question....
Does anyone make an SD or miniSD port based USB controller card?
Thanks again

Is it that big fat thing with a detachable keyboard (can't remember the name )? == Athena
and yes