Related
http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/24/google-hits-android-rom-modder-with-a-cease-and-desist-letter/
So this is interesting: apparently Google's hit the developer of the Cyanogen modded Android ROM with a cease-and-desist letter, asking him to stop distributing the closed-source Google apps like Gmail, Maps, and YouTube. What's a little strange is that Cyanogen is targeted at "Google Experience" devices like the G1 and myTouch, so it's not like Google is really protecting anything here -- leading us to wonder if they're just using the copyright argument to shut down a popular mod that's tempted over 30,000 users into rooting their phones.
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I sure am dissapointed in google right now.
Is Google turning into Microsoft? WTF! Cyanogen has done nothing but help make a lot of people into Android fanatics. What happened to the idea behind open source? I for one am behind Cyanogen 100%, in any way I can help.
donepate said:
What happened to the idea behind open source?
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the problem is that he is distributing closed source applications. ie. you tube, gmail etc.
if you read the story here... http://androidandme.com/2009/09/hacks/cyanogenmod-in-trouble/
it makes more sense.
[20:20] <cyanogen> no they are talking specifically about the closed-source google apps
[20:20] <cyanogen> and how i am not licensed to distribute them
[20:20] <cyanogen> my argument is that i only develop for google-experience devices which are already licensed for these apps
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Is is just me or is http://www.cyanogenmod.com/ down?
And now his site is down
I hope he continues modding - he can always do it without the close source apps and leave it to us to acquire them on our own.
his site isn't down Ive been on it today. I think it's picking up publicity traffic now so its a bit slow. Hopes this gets sorted out.
Good for him. (the publicity traffic that is)
driskl said:
his site isn't down Ive been on it today. I think it's picking up publicity traffic now so its a bit slow. Hopes this gets sorted out.
Good for him. (the publicity traffic that is)
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Sure enough, I can access it again.
All respect and support to Cyanogen.
If the issue is really about those proprietory apps, then I'd just remove them, and keep going!
Big props @Cyan
I was on his irc channel last night, and he was apparently already talking to people about substituting for open source apps....
Let`s hope so!!
I just downloaded Save Cyanogen from the market and signed a petition.
I'd just assume he replace the closed source apps with Open ones and drop Gmail all together, I don't have any much use or trust them anyway.
Go go gadget hotmail calendering, contacts
Stop knocking him and employe him!
Come on Google make use of the talents of some of these developers, personally I find his work more stable than my Vodafone rom
Official Google statement
Code:
http://bit.ly/1YFWlA
anyone know where I can download cyanogen?
http://www.cyanogenmod.com/downloads/stable-rom says not found.
never mind... found it with google
I just don't understand the main reason that google is going after cyanogen for. Currently right now there are the HTC devices and Google branded devices that can run this software. So while cyanogen himself don't have the license to distribute the software it is being installed on devices that would have the software on it anyway. I would also argue if this is the problem for Google they should provide a way for end users to download these needed applications directly without needing to go back to a main rom. Is the contacts sync which syncs to google proprietary? That would be something that really can't being taken out of the OS i don't think. I just believe that Google is being unreasonable and at the same time shooting themselves in the foot with this action.
ive read in a couple of places that this is the end of android. Thats the dumbest thing ive ever read. And ive read a lot of really dumb stuff
DMaverick50 said:
ive read in a couple of places that this is the end of android. Thats the dumbest thing ive ever read. And ive read a lot of really dumb stuff
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That is dumb, its not great, but hardly the end. Just means its pushed underground, which doesn't help the devs, users or Google
Of course it's not the end of Android, but it surely will have a huge impact on the platform. Google just killed a great chunk of community and things will never be the same again.
It's probably Google's way of seeing what would happen if they pushed. Kind of a "test the waters" thing. Sad to see it go this way. I had high hopes for Android but all that glitters......
heres from the dream forum.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=4615831#post4615831
I bought a g1 last year. I rooted my phone. I fell in love with android and the great community behind it. I am an avid cyanogen mod user.
Google basically ripped out the great fun, learning experimence, and day to day usage i now have in android.
I know how this community feels about 'warez'. I know how this community feels about cyanogen and his contribution to not only us but an 'open source' environment to cell phones.
Well basically what i am getting to is that cyanogen may be legally wrong but what if a developer were to release roms behind closed doors? To torrents and newsgroups and not officially have a face behind said rom. If a developer were to do that, would xda support threads pretaining to that rom? Would all of us still download and love a rom like we do now? Or am i just wrong for getting to that?
If this thread is deleted i understand, but to me i will abandon android if it fails to prosper by the community like true open source software is intended.
Give it time, there are work arounds for ROM makers. Google distributes these applications freely, which means all ROM developers have to do is remove those apps from the ROMs, and give you an application which installs them.
The Android scene is not dead. This sucks, but we will get over it, even without Google's help.
*edit, gary beat me to it..this is in re: to the original post
your not reading before you type...
Google is pissed about him including certain components that were not official yet or closed source. We get over that, and we are back in business. Everyone is way over-reacting, just wait...they will get it figured out. He just cant legally be quite so cutting-edge anymore
I've hard talks of a script that will automatically DL the apps that aren't allowed, I hope that happens soon .
I understand work arounds and what not but do i not have the legal right to use googles closed source apps now that i bought my g1? It is like buying a new car from ford and then ford telling manufacturers of aftermarket products (like air filters or tires) they cant sell them because ford owns the patent to the left head light circuit and it in some legal sense interfers.
A new set of tires on my car is just as damn harmful as using a cyanogen made rom on my phone. I own the hardware, i should be able to do with it as i see fit. Cyanogen doesnt make his roms available to those who dont already own an android licensed product and doesnt do his work for profit that google doesnt see.
They have a legal right yes, but why excersize that legal right when only those who support you already (and if you download cm roms you will more then likely be a future supporter) will end up with the crap end of the stick.
All the crap recently with apple and google voice i have thought to myself that apple will be getting what they deserve by sure to come fines from the fcc. Now google punches us all in the stomache for supporting them and their alledged open source cause. None of us here, including cyanogen, did any actual wrong. If it plays out how it is apparent they want it, everyone loses.
~~Tito~~ said:
I've hard talks of a script that will automatically DL the apps that aren't allowed, I hope that happens soon .
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our could we just not back up and put theme proper place in the update zips?
rondey- said:
I understand work arounds and what not but do i not have the legal right to use googles closed source apps now that i bought my g1? It is like buying a new car from ford and then ford telling manufacturers of aftermarket products (like air filters or tires) they cant sell them because ford owns the patent to the left head light circuit and it in some legal sense interfers.
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Your analogy is flawed because software cannot be treated the same as tangible items. Anyway, the issue at hand is not your license to use Google's closed-source apps, it is the unauthorized distribution of these apps by "ROM" cooks.
It's more than just a few apps that are closed source, though; many of the fundamental pieces that allow the phones to function are proprietary, such as sync, the LED control, the radio control... Take it all out and you have a phone that can't phone.
danguyf said:
It's more than just a few apps that are closed source, though; many of the fundamental pieces that allow the phones to function are proprietary, such as sync, the LED control, the radio control... Take it all out and you have a phone that can't phone.
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You really need to listen to the previous post. Anything that is required for our phones to run is not at question. Mod and distribute away. Led control , radio control, is not at question.
"That’s why we developed Android apps for many of our services like YouTube, Gmail, Google Voice, and so on. These apps are Google’s way of benefiting from Android in the same way that any other developer can, but the apps are not part of the Android platform itself. We make some of these apps available to users of any Android-powered device via Android Market, and others are pre-installed on some phones through business deals. Either way, these apps aren’t open source, and that’s why they aren’t included in the Android source code repository. Unauthorized distribution of this software harms us just like it would any other business, even if it’s done with the best of intentions."
Its the apps that are in question, not the underlying drivers, api's, libraries. So please and anyone else let's not overreact. Lets try to each help find a way to make this a non issue.
Johnny Blaze said:
You really need to listen to the previous post. Anything that is required for our phones to run is not at question. Mod and distribute away. Led control , radio control, is not at question.
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Actually, LED, radio, SPL... that's all HTC's property. Even the leaked NBH files that allowed this scene to flourish solely belong to HTC.
So although Google's decision does not affect them, they still fall under the same category of "oh crap...".
This is bad news. The phone is essentially useless without the Gmail app (for sign-in on initial boot as well as contact sync) and Android Market (for downloading any apps). Then take Google Maps out of the picture, and may as well throw the phone out and get an iPhone. At a minimum, this means the days of custom ROMs are over.
RueTheDay said:
This is bad news. The phone is essentially useless without the Gmail app (for sign-in on initial boot as well as contact sync) and Android Market (for downloading any apps). Then take Google Maps out of the picture, and may as well throw the phone out and get an iPhone. At a minimum, this means the days of custom ROMs are over.
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This is actually not true at all. The Gmail app is something that is currently being worked on. Google maps isn't that great (but it's available in the market) Like it's been said, give it time. This is just a hiccup that we'll all get over. Soon.
RueTheDay said:
This is bad news. The phone is essentially useless without the Gmail app (for sign-in on initial boot as well as contact sync) and Android Market (for downloading any apps). Then take Google Maps out of the picture, and may as well throw the phone out and get an iPhone. At a minimum, this means the days of custom ROMs are over.
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Your hyperbole not only singles you out as an ignorant fool, it also highlights the fact you have no idea where the true innovations in Android are. It is not having native GMail or Youtube clients (which are nice), it is in things like dalvik and the ipc framework. These are pieces of code that do not have anything to do with whether Google apps are present or not on the phone (or if it even is a phone).
Few things about the Android as background;
1) Android is open source and is enough to run a device on its own.
1a) People will argue that it isn't, that proprietary binaries are required. This is a *hardware dependent* argument. Blame HTC for having proprietary closed source binaries. 'Droid works fine on an openmoko using all open source software. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Android
2) Not all of what is on your phone is actually part of AOSP, i.e. *market*, *gmail*, etc.
3) Open and closed source components can exist in the same system without conflict.
4) Any particular organization can develop BOTH open AND closed source components, and these can, in fact, exist in the same system without conflict.
The situation:
Cyanogen has been issued a cease and desist order by Google related to inclusion of closed source Google apps in "CyanogenMod ROMs".
The legal situation: These closed source apps are not licensed to Cyanogen for redistribution. Google does have the legal right to restrict distribution of said apps.
Why now: The most obvious recent change that could have prompted this order to happen now is the inclusion of the as-of-yet unreleased MARKET app. This market app, being unreleased, is in an unknown state. This app may not be finished testing, i.e., it may be quite buggy, to the point where it could do all kinds of nasty things, like MULTIPLE-CHARGING of customer's when they buy paid apps, releasing payment and/or account information to unauthorized targets, failure to put secure apps into secure locations or other vulnerability allowing easy copying of protected apps, OR OTHER vulnerabilities. That being the case, Google may be *WORRIED ABOUT POTENTIAL PROBLEMS* in the new market app (rightly, as it may not have completed testing and/or may have KNOWN issues).
Why the order against *all* closed-source apps: This is simple. How can they order the removal of *just one*? If they order the removal of *just* the new market app, the legal implication is that the other closed source apps *can* be redistributed, i.e. precedence is 9/10ths of the law -- they would be closing the door on the enforcement of those apps in the future, i.e., for security reasons since regarding the closed source apps, Google is legally liable for their correct function.
So would the ignorant people talking about how evil Google is for doing this, PLEASE STOP spewing your mouths off regarding things that YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND? You're not helping anybody.
EVERYONE should read this.
I will admit, this post made me re-think what is really going on. He is just the first to get a finger shook at him, the rest will follow unless the developers and Google get stuff squared away.
i still think google is acting like asswholes though.
I do to but thank you for looking at things clearly unlike alot of other people inlcuding my self at first but once i started thinking about the new market i understood google
Just curious here but can an open source app be developed to access Market? Or are the codes for accessing Market closed?
Makes sense now, Google Just don't want to be responsible for something like customer's info being stolen.. and have the masses calling or infront of their door with pitch forks inhand,,
Then,
Why didn't Google say this?
Instead, they patronize and belittle the community.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4609612&postcount=3
I don't mean to attack the OP with this post.
It's just a question.
Most likely because they are a dev or a lawyer. They just don't like speaking English. They have to say it all complicated and then have someone else translate it for them.
i think that this is from a stupid lawyer team, and google just sent it for legal reasons, i think the dev team has nothing to do with this.... isnt this why the created android, to have an open source platform.... i think Cyanogen and google just need to come to a compromise, either that or we just dont use googles apps even though half of them have better counterparts in the market
i do know this, the law is the law. Is the law always perfect, hell no. Cyanogen did no wrong. He helped out every single one of us running an android powered phone.
Could something wrong happen with an experimental build? Ofcourse. That is why he has his own disclaimer. If you are smart enough to root your phone, you should be smart enough to realize potential dangers in running leaked and/or experimental code.
Google is being a douchebag for their actions. Htc doesnt issue cease and desist orders for all of you running hero and that directly involves their sales in their phones. How many windows mobile roms are on this xda forum? How many have been ordered by microsoft to stop distributing their work?
To me it is ridiculous google is doing this. I know they are legally right but that doesnt mean they should screw us early adopters of their software with lame and slow updates and a product that is obviously inferior to the coding and development of one man with the help of a few others.
The reason i bought my g1 instead of an iphone or windows mobile phone was because of this community. Now all of us have had the benefits of cyanogen in one way or another. I dont want to be a douchebag as well and not speak up for a man who has helped me out when he had no reason to do so
honestly cyanogen would have probably been fine had he left the new market out. fact is our phones came with the old version and thats what we payed for when we got them. if say on the g1 t-mobile decides not to offer and upgrade to 1.6 then that means there not going to pay google to have the new app on our phones so if we hack it and throw it on anyway then google doesnt make there money and we are in every way STEELING IT. if you worked for and got payed by google i bet it would upset you if people were steeling your product that you worked hard to create.
so do i agree they should force him to rethink some of his newer roms? yes
but i think the older ones that just have software our phones already came with should be left alone
AND i think we should be aloud to purchase the new software from google if we want it.
but google search google maps and all that crap has nothing to do with this as you can get them all FREE online this is probably 99% the new app being on peoples phones that didnt pay for it. you bought the original market when you bought your phone thats why google hasnt had a problem untill now.
everything set aside i love cyanogens work i love my 4.0.4.... i HAVE 4.1.11.1 saved i will probably even install it just to check it out if he doesnt come out with a stable version which is what i was waiting for. but if he comes out with a non google stable version i have no problem installing my old market onto it, i already have it backed up and ready to go. i payed for it and im keeping it no matter what rom i run! and i hope he keeps doing his thing im all for him and love what he does and would even pay for it if i had to! i hope this doesnt stop him and i hope they work things out. if he wants money for all the work hes been doing im sure people wont blame him and as long as it gives him insintive to keep going im happy!
my two cents
cy has been perfecting their roms and now that they got the tools that they need they are going to plagerize his programming and impliment it into their next great g phone....and the only way to say its theirs is by getting rid of any shred of evid that is out there
i understand what Google is doing..its upsetting but they have a point, they gave us an OPEN SOURCE OS, thats good enough, the devs make it a better, more fun, experience...so just shrug it off, rid it of ALL closed source apps.
Google should than allow the All Google apps available to those with Google Experience phones(before customizing with a ROM), they could make you register with your phones EMEI (maybe? if possible).
Also so this obviously means his ROMs arent here on XDA...What is XDAs stand on the situation? Were they pulled by XDA or did Cyanogen pull them?
I don't know if this has been suggested before. I've seen dev-team on iphone doing something similar: why don't you make an "installer" script that takes all Google APKs from the device (which has stock image) then flash the rom and reinstall the APKs.. This way you don't have to distribute google apks. Not sure if that's possible if there is some kind of encryption protection on Google apps, just a suggestion .
No matter what it was a mountain made out of a mole hill.
id just like to see google allow open access to their market place.
then put all closed source google apps on there for download just like any other apps.
However from what I understand its not as simple as this as they arent just apps there is a whole framework that goes with it. bah.
MS never sent a takedown notice
MS never sent a takedown notice to xda-developers.
Ready.........Fight!
http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Google&word2=Cyanogen
wshwe said:
MS never sent a takedown notice to xda-developers.
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That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard;
1) xda doesn't host any wimo roms.
2) xda doesn't develop any roms at all -- that is up to the individual who does so.
3) How the hell would you know? MS probably did some real *****y stuff like sending goons to the modder's home, harassing the modder's wives, and issuing threats like "stop doing this, don't tell anybody we threatened you, and pay up $10,000 or we're taking you to court over it".
I just got an email from Google saying that I qualify to get a Verizon Droid or Nexus One for having an app with over 5,000 active downloads from the market (which I do) for free through their seeding program.
Has anyone else received this and can vouch for the truthfulness of the offer?
Thanks!
Diceman4 said:
I just got an email from Google saying that I qualify to get a Verizon Droid or Nexus One for having an app with over 5,000 active downloads from the market (which I do) for free through their seeding program.
Has anyone else received this and can vouch for the truthfulness of the offer?
Thanks!
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http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/49da01a3cb7f8803?pli=1
Quite a few news outlets reporting the same as well (5k+ dls and 3.5+ stars apps)
Congrats man! I'd be super stoked if I were you... get the Nexus One!
If you read through all 80+ messages in that thread, people from Google do confirm it is NOT fake.
Congrats!
Wow, that's damn nice of Google, especially since the requirements seem very reasonable (5000 downloads, 3.5 rating).
I don't think you get to pick which device you get, however.
I received it too. IT'S SO NICE! THANKS GOOGLE! I'm in EU so I'll get a nexus one for sure =)
I got the email as well. I couldn't go to the Google event in London where they gave out free phones, so this is a nice surprise
Congratz guys! Yes I've read bout that too, and its great of Google to appreciate your hard work.
So tell us what apps you guys made so we can try em out.
uansari1 said:
Congrats man! I'd be super stoked if I were you... get the Nexus One!
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Correction... if you're dev'ing games, then get the Droid. Seems the N1's touchscreen isn't as advanced when it comes to MT.
Becoming an android developer is slowly a no brainer.
Google gives you an updated device every chance they get.
So that you can develop next gen apps at their expense.
Seriously why people are still stuck developing on the iphone and not making a transition to android is beyond me.
Im sure they can dual program java and OBJ-C (objective languages)
Thats cool i hope next year i can attand a few google events or mayybe have an app in the store.
GNOve said:
Becoming an android developer is slowly a no brainer.
Google gives you an updated device every chance they get.
So that you can develop next gen apps at their expense.
Seriously why people are still stuck developing on the iphone and not making a transition to android is beyond me.
Im sure they can dual program java and OBJ-C (objective languages)
Thats cool i hope next year i can attand a few google events or mayybe have an app in the store.
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Just wanted to say whats up GnOve!!!
GNOve said:
Seriously why people are still stuck developing on the iphone and not making a transition to android is beyond me.
Im sure they can dual program java and OBJ-C (objective languages)
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Technically, I guess they can. But Apple's not about technic, it's about religion. ("Google wants your data, but Apple wants your soul")
Now, seriously. I really think Apple often polarizes with its easy to use but very homogene and restricted concept. So a lot of Apple users/developers wouldn't touch a non-Apple device (aka "blatant rippoffs") with a stick, while a lot of Android users/developers despise Apple's restrictions (and costs).
Of course most professional software companies prefer money over religios wars, but lots of apps are from hobby developers.
Besides, the differences in development aren't defined by the language's syntax but the used frameworks and APIs. Even though they're "object oriented", there are worlds between VC++/MFC, VC++/SDK, C#/.NET, Java/Swing, Java/Struts(Cx), Java/JSF, Android, and Objective C. Dialogs/forms are created differently, user interaction is handled differently, frontend/backend separation works differently, there are "specials" like MS' "device contexts", different XML files and annotations for Java frameworks, or Android's "Intents", etc.
Anyone found any updates/information about this?
I'd love to get a mail with a "we've confirmed your registration, you'll recieve a device between X and X" or something like that.
Absolutely cool.
Guess I need to start developing for android.
Now to figure out the next big thing and to learn a language that results in an app.. Hell, I've learned 12 different programming languages, whats one more. LOL.
Official FAQ.
http://sites.google.com/site/developermarketandroidgiveaway/faq
David Horn said:
Official FAQ.
http://sites.google.com/site/developermarketandroidgiveaway/faq
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Thanks a lot, dont know how I missed that!
Wow, this truly is amazing. I don't have enough downloads on my two apps but I do have the ratings. Oh well. I need to write apps that will be more widely used.
nurre said:
Anyone found any updates/information about this?
I'd love to get a mail with a "we've confirmed your registration, you'll recieve a device between X and X" or something like that.
Click to expand...
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I just received this email a few minutes ago
Code:
Dear Guy,
We’ve received your information for the Android Market Device Seeding Program and have successfully validated the Google Order Number from your developer account.
Your information will now be sent to our shipping partner for order processing. Just to confirm, the information we received from you was:
Guy Mobile
"PERSONAL INFO"
"EMAIL
"PHONE"
If you need to make any changes to your information above, please contact us at [email protected] as soon as possible. Otherwise, you should receive your phone in 2-4 weeks!
On behalf of the Android team,
Thanks, and happy coding!
Google, Inc.
1600 Amphitheater Parkway
Mountain View, CA 94043
I just received that email too! Yesssss
I was just wondering if anyone had come across the Smart Wi-Fi app from Kineto that T-Mobile is purportedly testing now. Is there a more concrete timetable for release known. Also, I have heard conflicting information about the software requirements. I have read somewhere that it would run on any Android device with v. 1.5 or greater, but I have also heard that it requires special APIs that it needs to hook into so does that mean that the carrier would have to issue new builds of Android for each device with the APIs built in or did Google bake the APIs into Eclair or Froyo?
Anyone? I'm only gonna bump this once and if no one answers I'll take that as a confirmation that no one knows.
Ill throw down a bump on this.
Looks like they have officially put out the info. Now it is just waiting on T-mobile to push it out to users.
Funny thing is they say it is for Froyo, but Eclair is being showed on Vibrant as a demo.
http://www.kineto.com/press_releases/Kineto_Smart_Wifi_Android2_Froyo.php
Im kinda curious what this means exactly.
The press release doesn't seem to imply that this will be for one network or country, nor did the article that I read here.
Hopefully this will turn into something that'll be for any droid device. As someone who lives in a blackspot I would LOVE this kinda service. Here's hoping it gets into a release candidate soon. Wish they had opened it up to everyone rather than keeping in closed development tho, but oh well.
This would be a seriously amazing service and really boost android's rockingness.
I'd love to see if you could hack this to get true phone capability to wifi only tablets somehow *ponders*