Don't throw it away! :) - XPERIA X1 General

Don't throw it away! :) - XPERIA X1 General

First off, I don't want this to come off as any form of begging, so please read the whole post before making judgments.
I have noticed that many of the people posting about their X1 have things to complain about or simply don't like their device. If this is you, and you're planning on junking your device, maybe you would like to donate it to me instead? Of course, if you can get a refund and need the money, certainly do so; I've slowly been saving for an X1 and should have one in the next couple of months (assuming SE hasn't announced an X2 device by then). However, time is precious, and many things could be done in those few months while waiting.
About me: I've been programming for about 7-8 years now, and taking apart electronic devices and hacking around at the hardware since I was maybe 10. I enjoy cooking up new ROMs (who doesn't love voiding their warranty? =D) and writing software for various mobile devices. I'm also a long-standing Sony Ericsson fan, and have in fact recently gone back to my K550i after a few months with the Samsung Behold.
If/When I do get an X1, I have several plans, including:
- Developing panels (I have a few ideas in mind already, and the SDK installed, but development isn't practical without the proper testing device).
- Developing games (I have a few ideas in mind here as well, plus games I could easily port from those I've written for other devices).
- Developing WM software
- Possibly some ROM cooking, but no guarantee on a time-frame
- Exploring the hardware for tweaks/hacks/etc.
Now, as I said, there is certainly no rush to do this, and I have no specific need for anyone to donate a phone, as I will likely be able to buy one in a few months. However, if someone did contribute here, it would be helpful in advancing everyone's Xperience (I've noticed panels and games are particularly lacking, yeah?). So if you're planning on throwing out your X1, or simply have too much money to manage properly, feel free to contact me!

The economy in the US can't be that bad surely ?
The problem you have is how the US distribute phones, you buy an expensive call plan, then you have to buy the phone at full price
If you shop around in the UK you can get 600mins, 1000texts + unlimited data for £30 a month, 18m contract...with a free X1.
What the heck is going on in the USA Telecoms market ?
You are being ripped off big time !

lol that's what i'm wondering! we only get free phones if we start a new two year contract... but the phones are so worthless (like cheap flip nokias and motorolas). it costs so much to have a nice phone. i had to save 2 and a half paychecks just so i could buy my x1 :/
also Kuraudo, in microsoft visual studio, which you will need to develop your own panels, sony has developed an xperia emulator so you can see how your panel will work on the device. I was going to try and develop some panels but visual studio used up too much of my laptops resources so i had to get rid of it.

The US has piss-poor carrier competition. The big four are Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and T-mobile: Verizon and Sprint are ruled out because they're CDMA networks, and T-mobile uses its proprietary UMTS 1700 (3G) network. That just leaves AT&T to carry all the UMTS 850/1900 devices. It's not like Europe where multiple carriers operate on UMTS 2100, meaning any UMTS 2100 device could be used on any carrier, and therefore carriers will compete with each other to get exclusivity on high-end phones. With AT&T, they don't really have to compete with anyone -- and you can also place some blame on their monopoly with the iPhone.
Also, the US economy might not be that bad (it could be a lot worse, but hopefully it won't get that way), but a lot of people in the US still only use their phone for voice and SMS, which means there isn't really a high demand for 3G phones from the average consumer -- except, again, for the iPhone. And if the economy is taking a dive, there's less incentive for anyone to spend more money on cellphone service.
Anyway, that's getting off-track. To OP: have you seen HTC's leaked 2009 roadmap? The X1 looked like a great device but there have been so many quality control issues that I decided not to get one, and now with HTC planning to release a whole slew of devices in 2009, the X1 is looking more and more like "old news".

figurine said:
also Kuraudo, in microsoft visual studio, which you will need to develop your own panels, sony has developed an xperia emulator so you can see how your panel will work on the device. I was going to try and develop some panels but visual studio used up too much of my laptops resources so i had to get rid of it.
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I've already had this installed, and have used it to some extent, but it's not very ideal to base an entire development on the emulation (as it's slower and usability is different; i.e. comparing 800 pixels in width on a 17" screen vs. a 3" screen?).
fhsieh said:
To OP: have you seen HTC's leaked 2009 roadmap? The X1 looked like a great device but there have been so many quality control issues that I decided not to get one, and now with HTC planning to release a whole slew of devices in 2009, the X1 is looking more and more like "old news".
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I haven't seen it, and I'll look into it, but if your issue was with the X1's construction quality, it doesn't seem like you should be shopping from the same manufacturer (you dislike how HTC built the X1, so instead you want to buy HTC phones).
As far as I know, the "cracks and paint" issue with the X1 casing was limited to a few specific weeks of its production, and I'm under the impression that the more current ones would be more durable (an e-mail response I got from SE when I asked about the cracks and stuff said that it won't be a problem if I buy from sonystyle.com, which is either a way of trying to make more money... or of indicating that I should be buying newly-produced phones, rather than phones on eBay from the bad production weeks).
As far as the speed problem goes, it doesn't seem like there's a large enough latency that it would concern me during normal use. Plus, I'd imagine that a firmware update will eventually come to improve it.
I'll have a look at the HTC roadmap and get back to this thread, but...is there any news of a leaked SE roadmap?
Edit: had my look, but I didn't see anything too eye-catching (besides a hot pink phone that was outright ugly, to say the least). Didn't see any specs, but I didn't even like the way most of them looked.

Related

Is anybody else feeling a lack in developement?

I feel that after the big verizon and alltel gps cracks that there has been a lack in cool things happening for the titan. I realize that there are much better devices out there but I don't consider the titan ready to roll over a die just yet. Now more than ever I am feeling restricted by ghost 64 mb of ram. I've always had the most bad ass 'phone' of anybody that I know but I feel almost like I've done it all. I feel like android is a waste of time, because the iu is cool but I really can't see my self using it on a day to day and the amount of add-ons one would need to get it running smoothly would most likely eat up memory anyway (don't hate just my opinion). Maybe someone could cheer me up with something new I don't know about. Thanks ahead of time.

You still have No2chem working on his ROM over at ppcgeeks and maybe DCD will pop out another ROM, but the Titan is now a discontinued device. While popular, it never had the developer interest that the Apache did, so I expect development will fall off more rapidly. Fortunately, the current stuff like DCD's ROM work really well and my Mogul has a whole lot less headache factor than it did 6 months ago. Unfortunately, if you're bored and looking for new toys, you're going to be disappointed. Due to low RAM, we will probably be unable to acceptably run much of the software being developed with the Diamond, Touch Pro and beyond in mind. FWIW, barring a catastrophic failure, I intend to keep using my Mogul for at least the next year. My intention is to skip the diamond/touch pro generation completely with the hope that the next gen Android phones or another OS will free me from the old pig that is WM.

Thanks for the reply
I agree with you the touch diamond is not worth dropping almost 6 hundro for. I would spend the money if I thought it was. I am also pissed about the carrier fights because I used to work for verizon and hate them now and t-mobile's coverage in this area sucks bad, sprints customer service and williness to work with on issues is the absolute worst, and AT&T isn't even worth talking about, so I am happiest with alltel as far as price and service goes, but they are always about 4-6 months behind. And the G1 is a great concept but my buddy's really didn't impress me but I've been reading about the Touch HD (aka G2) and it looks like the phone I'd really like to have but they have no intentions right now of cdma functionality. So i just feel a little stuck. I am very impatient with these things.
On a closing note I will also agree that DCD's 3.2.xxx has been very near perfection. No more freezing. That is probably the most embarrassing thing to happen. You give someone your phone and tell them to use live search to go look at something then, boom, your phone freezes and you know they are thinking the thing that most pissess me off, 'Well it's definitely no iPhone.' The thing that makes you just want to wrap their hair up in your hand and knee them in the face a dozen times because you know the iphone doesn't have half the functionality your titan but you can't do anything but live with it because ****ing windows locked up because you have conflicting software. Anyway praise DCD for his latest because he has saved many peoples faces from my knee.

FYI, DCD has a post on this board with his intentions of going to the Diamond. On PPCGeeks, there is at least 5 ROM developers working on the Touch Pro CDMA and they all seem to be headed in that direction. I'm not sure what GC is planning on upgrading to. I expect the titan specific development to go away in the next 6 months, but there is always the more generic development of just Windows Mobile apps on this board as well as others that will continue.
DCD:
Quote:
Originally Posted by i3oomhower View Post
What is your phone of choice now adays?
i still have the titan. i'm trying to get a diamond. not getting raphael.
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2833285&postcount=22
DCD:
i have made a raphael kitchen and its no different from diamond. just some different oemapps.
i dont need the keyboard or care about the ram. i get the diamond cheaper and its thinner. the keyboard driver on titan is dissapointing to the point that i wish i had bought vogue (plus android doesnt work on my titan..). i do my typing at a pc, i only need to type on my phone when im driving, and the qwerty doesnt help there.
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2834249&postcount=26
Some of the people working on the Touch Pro.
SSPL, HSPL, relocker made by cmonex, Wrappers by olinex, SD flasher and relocker (coming soon) by no2chem. thanks to NexVision (btw I'm really sorry), zule/Shadowmite and no2chem for testing!!!
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The core team is made up of Astainhellbring, LennySh, Olipro, Cmonex, MrVanx, LTxda and a few others Also joining us is a local favorite, no2chem. Some of these names you've heard and some you haven't but rest assured, it's all about quality and professionalism here.
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http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=42503
no2chem already has his Touch Pro and is working on ROMs for it.
I picked up a Sprint Touch Pro today, so I thought I’d write about my experience with it thus far, and what the future might hold for it…
The Sprint Touch Pro is, dare I say, the best phone you can buy for the CDMA market. I’d go even further to say that the Sprint Touch Pro is the best phone you can buy in the United States. Yes, AT&T has the Fuze, which is essentially the same thing, with nicer looks, you’ll be locked to AT&T’s poor excuse for a data network. Granted, its not nearly as bad as T-Mobile’s nonexistent network, you’ll probably get only sub-par speeds on AT&T, as their HSDPA deployment is rather weak. Sprint, on the other hand, has EvDO well deployed in pretty much all metropolitan areas. On top of that, Sprint’s data plan is very affordable, while AT&T’s data plan costs a ridiculous $60/month. But enough about the carrier, and more about why this phone is pure bliss…
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http://www.nuerom.com/BlogEngine/

Yep, if you are bored and bothered by 64 megs, its time to jump ship while there is still demand. I sold my mogul for ~$200 on ebay a few weeks ago.

Yea, I know I just hate to drop the money now with great devices on the way, like I said my buddie's diamond is very laggy so I'm not really interested in droping $600 for something that is like stepping from mustang 6 cylinder mustang to a GT. By all means it is a much better device but still I think the screen could be larger, could have more memory, could have a less buggy ui (which dcd will probably work out), could have more expandable memory, plus I'm cdma which means I don't get that cool diamondish look. I think I'm going to have to just stick my thumb in my ass and wait for cdma's next big improvement which I think we'll happen sooner than later. I am hoping android will be a more widely used platform, as it looks to have a lot of potential.

Farewell windows mobile

As all of you, I've been with pocket pc since my hp 1945. Back then ppc was the most advance mobile os out there. I dreamed of a time they would converge this device with a phone to make the worlds greatest all in one. Then it came , the device that started my addiction with windows mobile phone, the imate jAm. From then on it was an exciting journey as I bought new phones when they cAme out. Each one better than the last and more stable. This journey climaxed when I bought my best pocket pc phone ever.. The htc advAntage. I loved that thing. Huge screen graphic processor, fast CPU , 8 gb HD . But alas my advantage was dropped one too mAny times so it was sold. Not wNting to get the same phone twice I purchased the AT&T tilt, then the xperia. Now for the point of my post. Since the begining to about when the first iPhone 3g came out I'd sAy ppc was very much better than the rest. Now after playing with the 3gs iPhone I can see with this device ppc is now in the dust. It does most things our ppc can do , but most of all more and more developers r writing awesome apps for this device. And because it's made by one company and also very popular there are tons of accessories for it. I mean there were times like with my advantage that I couldn't even get a proper case for it. As for os iPhone is wAaY more stAble, windowS is taking too long. They started this race but R finishing up last with their shotty work and programming. I meaN the only reSon I buy htc products is becUse of this awesome site. That's pretty sad when ur only selling point is a site that has no affilation with u but make ur buggy product useable. So with this post I sAy farewell ppc thank you all the chiefs that made All those custome Roms I've used over the past ten years. I've jumped ship and have bought a 3gs.
Ps xperia was the straw that broke the camels back. Worst ppc phone ever. From case problem to shotty os

Bye.
Thanks for the thread
Seriously why do people make these thread all they offer to the rest of us is reading your "painful" sob story.

ratchetnclank said:
Bye.
Thanks for the thread
Seriously why do people make these thread all they offer to the rest of us is reading your "painful" sob story.
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hahaha yeah. to iphone so go. bye, you wont be missed.

You could summarise the OP into one sentence.
"The iPhone has a swish GUI and is better supported for apps than the Xperia, so I'm getting one."
My response would be,
"I prefer my device to have a keyboard, and while the Xperia isn't perfect, it has a spreadsheet app out of the box... for free."

It is not our fault that you cannot configure your device properly. Feel free to buy a featurephone like the iPhail. It is simple, not functional and has crappy hardware and software.
WinMo is for tech savvy people who understand modern tech. iCrap is for the ones who want everything configured and controlled for them. The latter will fall behind modern society, because of lack of understanding how things work.
Read this and pay special attention to the links haha:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=529998

Let's not be Haters
If someone wants to leave WinMo let them go. Maybe when they try iPhone OS they'll realize what they are missing. Perhaps, though, they would be happier with it.
Just because WinMo might be best for us doesn't mean it's best for everyone.
I do have to say, though, that I am confused by the now several threads in the Xperia forum saying that they are leaving for the iPhone. I never saw any in the Kaiser or in the Dev or Q&A forums. I am beginning to think that many of these are simply viral marketing.
EDIT: Perhaps not viral marketing, just users that don't understand customizing/flashing very well. Reviewed some old posts by the originators of these threads.

Have fun with your iPhone 3GS - seriously No bad feelings here (why shouldn't there be any lol ).
However, I think you made 2 mistakes here. The first one, was getting an Xperia in the first place. If you now can live without the full qwerty keyboard, you should have gotten a Touch HD. Thats more of a competitor to the iPhone than the Xperia.
The second mistake: You switched when the WM platform finally has come to a point, where almost all new devices feature a WVGA screen, which means, that developers will have less problems to build apps AND WM 6.5 with its marketplace is standing right on the doorstep. The other thing here is, that Microsoft won't be that fussy when it comes to authorising apps to the marketplace.

I personally am not going to jump ship to the iPhone. I'm satisfied with the Xperia, but am really pissed with the problems of the WM ecosystem. No one stop shopping for apps. No music or app downloads straight to the phone (that Handango InHand app was crap!). And, come on guys, customizing a phone and voiding the warranty IS NOT A FEATURE!
I am not even interested in the X2. Hardware alone isn't going to convince me to buy a new phone. It has to have a great ecosystem and UI...period. I'm guessing X3 with WM7 would be my next phone, but if it's crap, then I'm jumping ship to something better (even iPhone 4). My next phone is going to have a really well-designed and clever OS on top of superior hardware. Features should not be half-assed but properly integrated into the whole phone. Good example is Copy and Paste. Many complaints the iPhone didn't have it, but now it's got it and it is very well implemented. Apple didn't just throw some bull**** into their phone to make the feature list longer. My next mobile OS will have to be designed with that same mentality and attention to user-experience.
I'll stick with my X1 for another generation, but next generation, the company with the best designed OS and ecosystem will get my business.

Besides the question if the iPhone is the better phone (Everyone has to decide for themselves, for me, the iPhone is definetely lacking some things) i really have to say that somehow i get the impression, that WinMO got stuck.
A few years back, it was the ultimate OS for powerful PPC and later PPCPhones, but that was because it was the only real one. Microsoft just sat back and sold and sold without improving. I mean even the devices 5 years back already had 400 MhZ and were as fast as todays devices and if you take a look at Windows Mobile 2003 SE and Windows Mobile 6.1 you can't see significant changes at first glance. I've had many WinMo Phones throughout the years and i will stick with it for now, because I love Windwos Mobile and all the functionality that comes along with it and appart from a keyboard i am still missing some other things with other phones like the iPhone, but i guess, if Microsoft does not realize that the Phone OS Market is now an open and very competitive one and does not improve their OS within the next year (Speed is a great factor, other OS are way faster) more and more people will come to the point where WinMo is no longer the OS of choice. As for myself, more and more things that "disgusted" me with the first iphone, get lost more and more, as apple improves the whole package. Alright, an iPhone with Keyboard is way off for now, but who knows
Just my two cents =)

If they released an iPhone with a keyboard, it would be game over for the rest of the smartphone industry. Not that I'm an Apple or iPhone fan, but more likely than not, they would completely dominate the smartphone market with a keyboard device and a touch-only device.

The X1 is good, but apps pale in comparison aesthetics wise

I think the X1 is really good, it's the best WinMo device i've ever had. There is no real comparable device out there regarding the Hardware.
But right now it looks like this is the climax of Windows Mobile and if this stays like that till the next time i have to get a new device i will be looking seriously into other Phones, because my love to WinMo is not unconditionally, they really need to do something

etegration said:
hahaha yeah. to iphone so go. bye, you wont be missed.
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Word! **** the iPhone.

WinMo and X1 is good enough that I'll wait for WM7 to give it a chance (and I'll put the OFFICIAL WM6.5 on my X1). But after that, I'll have to jump ship to a/the keyboard iPhone or something else if Microsoft and SE doesn't get it's s**t together by next generation of phones (The X3).

I have to agree. I updated my X1 using the SE update service to R3A and now get regular crashes. I'm trying to find away to roll back but not having any luck. As mentioned before, cooking your ROM is all well and good to improve your phone, but it voids your warranty and shouldn't be needed. Lazysoft should start investing some of their vast mountain of money into programmers who can produce a stable, fast and easily customizable OS. As Apple slowly realise their mistakes with the iPhone and introduce firmware upgrades to compensate WM is going nowhere and offering nothing new or improved. As soon as iPhone is capable of everything other phones are, it's game over for WM.

I'm sorry but this is getting out of hand...we are being astroturfed here.
So many 'I'm switching to iphone 3gs' posts... it's professional done I grant you that (some are one or to post users some are 50+ well rounded accounts) but astroturf nonetheless.
I'm wondering if the rest of the XDA forums is being hit? If I'd get off my butt I'd check.

WhyBe said:
If they released an iPhone with a keyboard, it would be game over for the rest of the smartphone industry. Not that I'm an Apple or iPhone fan, but more likely than not, they would completely dominate the smartphone market with a keyboard device and a touch-only device.
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Keyboard will not be a substitute for all the features it lacks.
dadeadman said:
The X1 is good, but apps pale in comparison aesthetics wise
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Agreed, but not 100%. Function beats aesthetics any day. WinMo has cool looking apps as well.
THJahar said:
I'm sorry but this is getting out of hand...we are being astroturfed here.
So many 'I'm switching to iphone 3gs' posts... it's professional done I grant you that (some are one or to post users some are 50+ well rounded accounts) but astroturf nonetheless.
I'm wondering if the rest of the XDA forums is being hit? If I'd get off my butt I'd check.
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I thought the same thing. Maybe a Mod can drop by and tell us if we are right?

Hannigan174 said:
If someone wants to leave WinMo let them go. Maybe when they try iPhone OS they'll realize what they are missing. Perhaps, though, they would be happier with it.
Just because WinMo might be best for us doesn't mean it's best for everyone.
I do have to say, though, that I am confused by the now several threads in the Xperia forum saying that they are leaving for the iPhone. I never saw any in the Kaiser or in the Dev or Q&A forums. I am beginning to think that many of these are simply viral marketing.
EDIT: Perhaps not viral marketing, just users that don't understand customizing/flashing very well. Reviewed some old posts by the originators of these threads.
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I had an iFail for a month (back in the 2G when you could jailbreak without contract)
I am happy I don't have it any more
Crappy keyboard, with only qwerty, no 3rd party keyboard support, apps were alright, nothing incredible, no real bluetooth (A2DP, tethering etc) and no hardware keyboard, hardware was mediocre at best and the camera sucked
Took them 2 years to sort out some of those issues, hardware/camera still suck and the apps.....lets just say I wouldn't take a lot of them if you paid me, not to mention being forced to use iTuneDeaf, I'll stick to my media players that support OGG thanks.

I am quite impressed with the iPhone 3GS, I do not understand how they can make the MP3 player so remarkably fast compared to any windows mobile mp3 program + phone. I know capacitive screen takes away the need to apply pressure but the iPhone OS looks as if it takes alot of processing power and yet 600 Megahertz is almost the same as 528 and yet iphone is blazing fast.
The same also applies to the Ipod Touch which has a 400 mhz processor.
I am just so discontented that the iPhone os is not good for automated apps and modification apps. If it had those features + a true file system than I would consider.
This is the reason why all iphones and ipod touch have mostly games and games and games, because it can only support certain types of foreground apps (since the Mac OS isn't designed for background apps)

I pity all the iDiots......
http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/01/video-iphone-copy-and-paste-is-a-pretty-incredible-thing-sur/

Read this article before buying a SE

http://blogs.computerworld.com/17649/android_upgrades
I can't give you a better argument not to go for SE.

Thank you for the info, on the other hand i can probably find such a site for every car brand and i am still driving :lol
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk

I think this phone will be quickly replaced by SE with a better higher quality device look at how many PSP models there are. They will probably hold back on updates for a newer model.
It might last a year at most before a "PSP slim" phone, Or dare I say a white model (lol)
P.S I may of had bad experience with the x!0 series owning 3 different models so my post may be a bit biased.

I had a SE Satio, which was a complete failure. Support for les then 6 months, 2 minor bug fixes within those 6 months.
The support of the X1 and the X10 and family dropped fairly quick as well. And also consider that the X10 started with outdated software already.
Why would SE change this policy?
In my opinion they stripped the company so harsch (2009/2010) of all unnescacarry business departments and personnel that they can't support the phones for to long. They just need to sell phones in masses to make profit. They can't give the support the customers asks, or demands. And customers benchmark companies and expect SE to have the same update ratio as other companies like HTC, or Samsung.
They won't give the same update ratio as other companies because they don't have the funds. Everything is focussed on sales, not the aftersales...

SonyEricsson: We won't keep doing what we are doing now! Promise!
Thanks for posting this, Bestevaer.
If, as they have promised, SonyEricsson (SE) really has turned the corner on keeping current on android versions, then the best way for them to demonstrate this newfound commitment would be to begin updating the X10 series.
Why would anyone take the gamble on SE keeping the Xperia arc updated?
If enough consumers are well informed, then SE is going to miss a whole cycle on this series of hardware upgrades. Keeping current customers satisfied should be seen as an investment on getting and keeping future customers.
I know I'll never buy another SE device if they don't keep my X10 reasonably current for the life of my two-year contract -- and I advise my "laggard" friends looking for android devices of such.
When HTC is doing such a good job keeping their devices current, why would anyone go SE?

Because most people don't know any better and only looking for a good looking device. I really know people who are now extremely happy because I showed them there is a market, you won't believe it, but I swear it's true! Those people have no idea if they are on 2.1 or 1.6 or 2.3.. And they really don't care.
We are with far too few to get through to SE's executives... They really don't care if 1% of their users are complaining all the time, they only want to sell big numbers and to do so they make stunning looking devices.
It's all about money and reaching targets, to get there you have to make some thing for the mass public, the top managers only get their asses fired when they don't reach their targets...
For me, once again, I will get one as I already preordered one, just to see by myself what they learned in the last period...
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk

PollPixx said:
Because most people don't know any better and only looking for a good looking device. I really know people who are now extremely happy because I showed them there is a market, you won't believe it, but I swear it's true! Those people have no idea if they are on 2.1 or 1.6 or 2.3.. And they really don't care.
We are with far too few to get through to SE's executives... They really don't care if 1% of their users are complaining all the time, they only want to sell big numbers and to do so they make stunning looking devices.
It's all about money and reaching targets, to get there you have to make some thing for the mass public, the top managers only get their asses fired when they don't reach their targets...
For me, once again, I will get one as I already preordered one, just to see by myself what they learned in the last period...
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
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You are right about SE that they make beautifull phones. You are also right that there are allot of people who go to a store and buy a nice looking new phone when there 2, or 1 year subscription has expired (maybe a new SE).
But you forget that it's very costly for a company to lose loyal customers. Not only in money but also in feedback. And feedback is a free advise for a company. But mine and many others experiences with SE is that they don't care about feedback, so they will not improve as a company. And if you don't improve as a company you will lose marketshare, your position comparing to the competition will weaken. See what is happening atm with SE if you compare them to HTC, Samsung or Apple if you like. They lose market share and loyal customers.
In 2010 they shipped less handsets comparing to previous years and they lost a considerable market share while the smartphone market was growing rapidly. (Side note: yes they made profit in 2010, but every company can fire people and cut company business and make profit. There is nothing fancy about it).

Good point there, but so far they never listened to any feedback as far as I can tell. I stopped sending them mails a long time ago as they never replied, and when they did, they completely missed my point of criticism by sending a preset marketing message
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk

Bestevaer said:
You are right about SE that they make beautifull phones. You are also right that there are allot of people who go to a store and buy a nice looking new phone when there 2, or 1 year subscription has expired (maybe a new SE).
But you forget that it's very costly for a company to lose loyal customers. Not only in money but also in feedback. And feedback is a free advise for a company. But mine and many others experiences with SE is that they don't care about feedback, so they will not improve as a company. And if you don't improve as a company you will lose marketshare, your position comparing to the competition will weaken. See what is happening atm with SE if you compare them to HTC, Samsung or Apple if you like. They lose market share and loyal customers.
In 2010 they shipped less handsets comparing to previous years and they lost a considerable market share while the smartphone market was growing rapidly. (Side note: yes they made profit in 2010, but every company can fire people and cut company business and make profit. There is nothing fancy about it).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You leave me no choice but to argue. Yes, losing loyal customers is important, I agree, but that they are not listening to feedback is no where near what you said. If you do now know how internal works, please refrain from saying anything of this sort. It's much better if you would just say they work inefficiently, and they already admit it. They can't take in all the voice of ALL consumers. I know that they're at least trying from the scope of the updates they send out internally. They kept adding features and changing support. This is to get the maximum output for the time frame.
Shipped less handsets? Well have you looked at the number of handsets they announced? The price range also increased. They're aiming for premium markets, which means they're not mass producing their units. Whatever number is produced, it will only be sold that amount only. They made more profit selling smaller volumes, but higher price range, so it's not rocket science to have profit even if they ship less. You think kicking out employees make them yield profit? Please study on what the reconstruction cost includes and how ridiculous it costs. Thank you.
http://gizmodo.com/5733556/the-complete-state-of-android-froyo-upgrades
Any thoughts?

unknown13x said:
You leave me no choice but to argue. Yes, losing loyal customers is important, I agree, but that they are not listening to feedback is no where near what you said. If you do now know how internal works, please refrain from saying anything of this sort. It's much better if you would just say they work inefficiently, and they already admit it. They can't take in all the voice of ALL consumers. I know that they're at least trying from the scope of the updates they send out internally. They kept adding features and changing support. This is to get the maximum output for the time frame.
Shipped less handsets? Well have you looked at the number of handsets they announced? The price range also increased. They're aiming for premium markets, which means they're not mass producing their units. Whatever number is produced, it will only be sold that amount only. They made more profit selling smaller volumes, but higher price range, so it's not rocket science to have profit even if they ship less. You think kicking out employees make them yield profit? Please study on what the reconstruction cost includes and how ridiculous it costs. Thank you.
http://gizmodo.com/5733556/the-complete-state-of-android-froyo-upgrades
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about there internal structure but I do know how bunisess engineering works. And what I experience and see there business engineering isn't working out for a bunch of there customers.
It is understandable that they can't listen to all there customers wisches, but what boggles me is that there hasn't made an improvement after thet Satio and the Vivaz (my scope). Those phones got terrible support, and customers received terrible feedback. Since then no improvements have been made, and I honestly don't think they will make improvements according to all the new phones they introduce. All these phones need support as well...
They shipped less handset, but as you mentioned the average prices went up several 10th's of dollars. But compared to the smartphone market they lost market share and other phone manufacturers shipped more phones instead of less. Check out there Q3 report of 2010.
http://www.ericsson.com/res/investors/docs/q-reports/2010/9month10-en.pdf

Bestevaer said:
I don't know about there internal structure but I do know how bunisess engineering works. And what I experience and see there business engineering isn't working out for a bunch of there customers.
It is understandable that they can't listen to all there customers wisches, but what boggles me is that there hasn't made an improvement after thet Satio and the Vivaz (my scope). Those phones got terrible support, and customers received terrible feedback. Since then no improvements have been made, and I honestly don't think they will make improvements according to all the new phones they introduce. All these phones need support as well...
They shipped less handset, but as you mentioned the average prices went up several 10th's of dollars. But compared to the smartphone market they lost market share and other phone manufacturers shipped more phones instead of less. Check out there Q3 report of 2010.
http://www.ericsson.com/res/investors/docs/q-reports/2010/9month10-en.pdf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So...looking at your document doesn't prove anything you said. They're holding on through each quarter while having increased income per quarter...what's your point? Their market share dropped a merely 1% since 2009 from the latest document I received
All brands has dropped their support for Symbian. It's just the reality that this is not the platform for the future. I'm not going to mention any brand, but you can find that out yourself which brand also dropped their support the same time SE did. They did released 2 MR updates as for their policy. It's not as if they dropped the support midway. They fulfilled its 1 year support. What else is needed when the market doesn't even support the platform anymore? Also, wasn't your post initially for Android? What's the point in dragging in Symbian?

SE's standing in terms of updating their devices is no brainer. This phone however will sell for cosmetic reasons. Despite the massive outrage all over the internet, SE will still retain its market share mainly because they are still comming up with good designs.
However the news that SE devices will now get faster updates should be taken with a pinch of salt. Things don't change over night.
It all comes down to personal preference really. If you want a slick looking device; SE is the way to go. If updates matter go for HTC or Nexus.

unknown13x said:
So...looking at your document doesn't prove anything you said. They're holding on through each quarter while having increased income per quarter...what's your point? Their market share dropped a merely 1% since 2009 from the latest document I received
All brands has dropped their support for Symbian. It's just the reality that this is not the platform for the future. I'm not going to mention any brand, but you can find that out yourself which brand also dropped their support the same time SE did. They did released 2 MR updates as for their policy. It's not as if they dropped the support midway. They fulfilled its 1 year support. What else is needed when the market doesn't even support the platform anymore? Also, wasn't your post initially for Android? What's the point in dragging in Symbian?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should see the 1% drop in marketshare in perspective. In 2009 the smartphone market grew rapidly, but SE didn't took a part of the pie. And you should (as a critical customer) think why they didn't grew as other companies.
My point is that you should not take the gamble. Buy a SE and there could be a possibility that you (again) end up with poor support, since they never ever improved there support. But you do end up with a beautifulll looking phone.....
The example of the Satio and Vivaz where just to make my point clear about the lack of support and feedback from SE. And that there policy hasn't changed thus far with the introduction of Android.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App

As far as I am concerned, SE are dead. I had the X1, SE are worst for software updates. I remember getting froyo on my HTC desire a good 2-3 months before the X10 got 2.1 eclair.
SE have stated that its a fresh start, lets see if they can hold up to that promise, but after the X10, I can't trust SE anymore, i'd much rather go for HTC, Moto or even samsung...

unknown13x said:
Shipped less handsets? Well have you looked at the number of handsets they announced? The price range also increased. They're aiming for premium markets, which means they're not mass producing their units. Whatever number is produced, it will only be sold that amount only. They made more profit selling smaller volumes, but higher price range, so it's not rocket science to have profit even if they ship less. You think kicking out employees make them yield profit? Please study on what the reconstruction cost includes and how ridiculous it costs. Thank you.
http://gizmodo.com/5733556/the-complete-state-of-android-froyo-upgrades
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me comment, please.
I have 30 years of IT experience, and 15 of that in application development in FT100 companies.
SE was unable to take part in the astounding demand for new cell phones this year for a number reasons and they don't yet understand the Android philosophy:
1. They were unable to bring X10 family the USA market early.
2. The hardware was excellent when it was announced over two years ago, but they did not make any changes to that hardware to keep that edge. There was no slip-streaming of a better CPU/GPU or "N" wifi etc. SE took advantage of the reduced costs 'by the time' they went to actually manufacture the phones and made design decisions that compromised the performance of the phone, it's upgradeability and saved them money in the parts list.
3. SE continues to not be able to engage serious interest by T-Mobile in SE phones while not one of the two top carriers, is one that they could certainly make a phone for. Equinox is the only phone they are currently selling and only the TM506 prior to that.
4. SE's move to ATL (according to some posts on XDA by former SE Raleigh staff) and the general reduction in programming staff lost those programmers most familiar with the AT&T firmware testing. Historically in the AT&T relationship, AT&T NEVER RELEASED a second firmware for any SE phone even though SE traditionally has released several versions for every phone they have ever made. AT&T has never felt that updates were important for any phone they sold, to them, it is just a pain in the ass. MS forced them to do updates for Windows phones and the contract with Apple didn't give them a choice.
5. Android is supposed to compete with iPhones IOS. One of the ways that makes the iPhone so desirable is that even the old hardware runs the new version of the OS. This means that people who want to stay in grandfathered contracts have a way to resell their old phone to people who don't want to upgrade to a subsidized phone and don't care about the latest and greatest hardware version. Prior model iPhones were selling for $100-$199 just as the last version came out. (Many were shipped to markets not covered by Apple.) This funds the purchase of new models either subsidized or not. Android OS updates make the phones resalable. A Android phone that is out of phase with the latest OS is worthless for resale. SE and other OEMs don't seem to be taking this into account as a part of Apple's strategy to make the iphone have increased value and are not applying it to their own strategy.
6. SE's heads have decided to "not compete on hardware." Well, this is a problem since the people who are looking for Android phones specifically are generally technical and would certainly look at hardware. The X10 was targeted at women as if it was a traditional SE fashion phone with enhanced social networking, all those early ads were showing women using the phone. The Captivate and the X10 arrived within 'days' of each other. The Captivate certainly has the hardware spec advantage over the X10a. Even small things like the internal storage was huge by comparison, as well as the full 512mb ram. Even though the Captivate phone is seriously flawed and fairly ugly, the 'hardware' outsold the X10 by 30x (at AT&T alone). AT&T has not found it necessary to 2-4-1 it or even reduce the pricing significantly, and it was MORE expensive than the X10a through the entire cycle. SE's proud it made 29-30% in the first 3 qtrs 2010 on the phones, but the last quarter I think we will see that number reduced due to the heavy discounting they did to dump the X10's in stock.
SE's so proud of the 30% markup? Apple makes 100%. Samsung was using parts they actually manufactured in other divisions such as the screens, memory and other components, it would not surprise me if they made 50 or 60%.
7. SE didn't listen customers or even to their own employees. SE gave X10's to every SonyStyle store employee to drum up support for sales. Guess what, every SonyStyle employee that I've spoken to, and I have spoken with more than a dozen, either sold the phone right away or gave it away to a family member. I could not find a single employee that actually used it. As a result they didn't really know how to use or demo it in the stores and since many have iPhones or other Android devices didn't even know it didn't have MT (witnessed by them trying to pinch zoom). The actual sale of a phone ( I bought two of these at SonyStyle stores in two different states), was a 'rare' event that the manager used for training other employees. SonyStyle was giving these phones away for Xmas sales with a two year contract, again to dump inventory. Employees when they realized that I was not just some old guy but a technical person were questioning why I would even WANT a X10. (It wasn't so much for the phone as for SE support which I have always liked and the better than run-of-the-mill PC software to link the phone which they butchered with the X10.)
8. Yes, SE never promised 2.2 or MT. (And some of the other companies have reneged or delayed a 2.2/2.3 update for many phones.) As for the global 1year policy, this is terrible, as the phone will only have been in the US for 8 months. However, with the admitted failure to deliver good customer service this year after the reorganization, Android 2.2 or 2.3 would certainly be a good will gesture to the millions of X10 owners and would make the phone worth a few dollars in resale. Only a buy back program for upgrading would be better, though the ARC with less than 300mb internal storage and 512mb ram, an already 6 month old CPU/GPU combo (which is now very cheap) isn't 'cutting edge' by a long shot.

Stan.S, brilliant informative post!
I agree with all the points you raise but I think I will still actually buy the ARC if it comes to market without delay especially after seeing the latest blog video demonstrating what I think is the best camera capability of any phone (besides the nokia n8).
I currently own a HTC Legend and while it has had updates (maintenance and OS) it was annoying that the 2.2 update came after Vodafone began rolling out a version for their phones, pretty irritating especially as I had bought the phone with no contract..So it seems no one is free of bad practices..
Regarding the lack of cutting edge hardware I was slightly put off that there was no mention of dual-core, but then I remember I work as an animator for a games studio that works on well known games and its amazing what we can squeeze out of a DS.
But frankly Im after a super fast camera with excellent video capabilities and I haven't really seen that from any other brands as an animator its annoying carrying a camera and a phone for those odd moments I need to grab/video I always forget to charge my camera or its too cumbersome for that 1 moment... but my phone I have it with me always..

flynny said:
But frankly Im after a super fast camera with excellent video capabilities and I haven't really seen that from any other brands as an animator its annoying carrying a camera and a phone for those odd moments I need to grab/video I always forget to charge my camera or its too cumbersome for that 1 moment... but my phone I have it with me always..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.
Well, the sensor they put in is certainly a level up from most on the market, however, it is again the cheaper of the two possible sensors available. I also understand that the larger (12mpix) sensor would require the phone to be thicker and have a better lens as well as a higher cost.
If SE was really into the PREMIUM market as they claim, they know that the Cybershot variations of their phones have always been beloved by consumers. X10's and the Arc certainly show that the people from the camera section have had input into the design.
This is supposed to be a flagship phone, and there is not a single component that is Outstanding, it's more like the best of the middle ground.
It's always possible that Arc will have brothers and sisters announced at MWC and a bit more differentiation will show up beyond a keyboard or size, but the constant choice of cheaper components (and the reduced internal storage) will certainly cause all the reviewers to comment on the 'below expectations of hardware available at this time' of the devices.

stan.s said:
Let me comment, please.
I have 30 years of IT experience, and 15 of that in application development in FT100 companies.
SE was unable to take part in the astounding demand for new cell phones this year for a number reasons and they don't yet understand the Android philosophy:
1. They were unable to bring X10 family the USA market early.
2. The hardware was excellent when it was announced over two years ago, but they did not make any changes to that hardware to keep that edge. There was no slip-streaming of a better CPU/GPU or "N" wifi etc. SE took advantage of the reduced costs 'by the time' they went to actually manufacture the phones and made design decisions that compromised the performance of the phone, it's upgradeability and saved them money in the parts list.
3. SE continues to not be able to engage serious interest by T-Mobile in SE phones while not one of the two top carriers, is one that they could certainly make a phone for. Equinox is the only phone they are currently selling and only the TM506 prior to that.
4. SE's move to ATL (according to some posts on XDA by former SE Raleigh staff) and the general reduction in programming staff lost those programmers most familiar with the AT&T firmware testing. Historically in the AT&T relationship, AT&T NEVER RELEASED a second firmware for any SE phone even though SE traditionally has released several versions for every phone they have ever made. AT&T has never felt that updates were important for any phone they sold, to them, it is just a pain in the ass. MS forced them to do updates for Windows phones and the contract with Apple didn't give them a choice.
5. Android is supposed to compete with iPhones IOS. One of the ways that makes the iPhone so desirable is that even the old hardware runs the new version of the OS. This means that people who want to stay in grandfathered contracts have a way to resell their old phone to people who don't want to upgrade to a subsidized phone and don't care about the latest and greatest hardware version. Prior model iPhones were selling for $100-$199 just as the last version came out. (Many were shipped to markets not covered by Apple.) This funds the purchase of new models either subsidized or not. Android OS updates make the phones resalable. A Android phone that is out of phase with the latest OS is worthless for resale. SE and other OEMs don't seem to be taking this into account as a part of Apple's strategy to make the iphone have increased value and are not applying it to their own strategy.
6. SE's heads have decided to "not compete on hardware." Well, this is a problem since the people who are looking for Android phones specifically are generally technical and would certainly look at hardware. The X10 was targeted at women as if it was a traditional SE fashion phone with enhanced social networking, all those early ads were showing women using the phone. The Captivate and the X10 arrived within 'days' of each other. The Captivate certainly has the hardware spec advantage over the X10a. Even small things like the internal storage was huge by comparison, as well as the full 512mb ram. Even though the Captivate phone is seriously flawed and fairly ugly, the 'hardware' outsold the X10 by 30x (at AT&T alone). AT&T has not found it necessary to 2-4-1 it or even reduce the pricing significantly, and it was MORE expensive than the X10a through the entire cycle. SE's proud it made 29-30% in the first 3 qtrs 2010 on the phones, but the last quarter I think we will see that number reduced due to the heavy discounting they did to dump the X10's in stock.
SE's so proud of the 30% markup? Apple makes 100%. Samsung was using parts they actually manufactured in other divisions such as the screens, memory and other components, it would not surprise me if they made 50 or 60%.
7. SE didn't listen customers or even to their own employees. SE gave X10's to every SonyStyle store employee to drum up support for sales. Guess what, every SonyStyle employee that I've spoken to, and I have spoken with more than a dozen, either sold the phone right away or gave it away to a family member. I could not find a single employee that actually used it. As a result they didn't really know how to use or demo it in the stores and since many have iPhones or other Android devices didn't even know it didn't have MT (witnessed by them trying to pinch zoom). The actual sale of a phone ( I bought two of these at SonyStyle stores in two different states), was a 'rare' event that the manager used for training other employees. SonyStyle was giving these phones away for Xmas sales with a two year contract, again to dump inventory. Employees when they realized that I was not just some old guy but a technical person were questioning why I would even WANT a X10. (It wasn't so much for the phone as for SE support which I have always liked and the better than run-of-the-mill PC software to link the phone which they butchered with the X10.)
8. Yes, SE never promised 2.2 or MT. (And some of the other companies have reneged or delayed a 2.2/2.3 update for many phones.) As for the global 1year policy, this is terrible, as the phone will only have been in the US for 8 months. However, with the admitted failure to deliver good customer service this year after the reorganization, Android 2.2 or 2.3 would certainly be a good will gesture to the millions of X10 owners and would make the phone worth a few dollars in resale. Only a buy back program for upgrading would be better, though the ARC with less than 300mb internal storage and 512mb ram, an already 6 month old CPU/GPU combo (which is now very cheap) isn't 'cutting edge' by a long shot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very good post Stan.S!
If I may comment your points a little.
1. Hopefully this will change with arc. Seems like they have a deal with At&t.
2. Dont think hardware could have been so much better. They are using qualcomm hardware and their better processors are not done yet. Internal ROM could have been better though. More than 512 RAM is not necessary in my opinion.
3. From what you say about At&t, t-mobile seems a lot better
4. Same as above, Im not American so I wouldn't know
5. Again I think this will be better with arc. From what Ive seen here in Sweden, SE representatives seems to be really committed to upgrade their phones. They know they ****ed up.
6. Actually the head of the "heads" (Bert Nordberg) have said in a interview in the biggest economic newspaper here in Sweden that hardware is important and that they intend to win that race also. He said something like "its all about clock speed these days and we intend to take the lead". Its my understanding that Arc is not the über device of this year. It takes a while to plan these things and Bert probably influenced a later device. Also arc seems to be more about the looks and screen than the hardware. Its not a super highend device
7. That sucks. Probably the same everywhere. Hopefully arc will attract some more goodwill than the x10. Problem these days is that everyone has an iphone and wont leave that ecosystem.
8. An "insider" on a Swedish forum gave an explanation to why the x10 wont get 2.2. Apparently the boot loader is totally locked down. Even for SE people. X10 was never going to get 2.2 or even 2.1 for that matter. They cant change the kernel even if they want to. 2.1 was easy because it was the same kernel. SE ****ed up big on that one. Arcs boot loader is not locked down which will make upgrades easier, and a lot easier for xda to crack also
Edit. Link to interview with Bert Nordberg (in Swedish) http://di.se/Artiklar/2010/10/15/217454/Bert-Nordberg-gar-for-tillvaxt/

I like SE cause I tend to care more about hardware then software. When it comes to software I'm not looking for SE I'm looking at the great XDA developers community which is always upgrading every phone way before the manufacture does anyway.

thorstenn said:
7. That sucks. Probably the same everywhere. Hopefully arc will attract some more goodwill than the x10. Problem these days is that everyone has an iphone and wont leave that ecosystem.
8. An "insider" on a Swedish forum gave an explanation to why the x10 wont get 2.2. Apparently the boot loader is totally locked down. Even for SE people. X10 was never going to get 2.2 or even 2.1 for that matter. They cant change the kernel even if they want to. 2.1 was easy because it was the same kernel. SE ****ed up big on that one. Arcs boot loader is not locked down which will make upgrades easier, and a lot easier for xda to crack also
Edit. Link to interview with Bert Nordberg (in Swedish) http://di.se/Artiklar/2010/10/15/217454/Bert-Nordberg-gar-for-tillvaxt/
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Click to collapse
7. You say that leaving iPhone is not possible, but it's not true, there are people who wish to no longer be sheep and not straight jacketed. I talked to a couple of people just today who got HTC's when they decided to sell iphones.
8. Wait, they can't put another kernel on due to the bootloader? are you implying that the bootloader runs some sort of a checksum on the kernel or checks a specific offset address for something? There's only a limited number of things that would lock it to a specific kernel.....

An interesting observation - SE using cat-string theory as its main business practice

i am a business management student...so i thought of sharing my perspective over how Sony Ericsson is playing the smartphone game...
by exagerrating a lot before the product launch ...and after the launch..giving small doses of updates so customers dont change phone in the hope of getting new features.
think of it..
they build great hype for a product months before the launch by strong advertising (probably spending more on ads than R&D itself) , promising a revolutionary interface with ground breaking custom interfaces....X panels for X1 (remember?) and timescape/mediascape (biggest garbage) for X10 ..both over-ambitious
just so they can differentiate from other companies..
ya they have great product design.. which initially attracts impulse buyers...they build anticipation...so we cant wait to get our hands on their phone!
and then they finally launch the product which will NEVER have the latest updates because their entire focus was on marketing the product i.e bringing it to market before competition and capturing market share.
they never really focussed on industry shaking R&D like Apple..c'mon without Apple, touchscreen was a dead market.
and without Android...Apple had a monopoly.
This is revolution....not timescape or mediascape..which are my least favourite apps...battery sucking with extremely slow response rates.
then they ll keep launching small small updates over couple of months...more like over a year...adding little features..so we dont change brand loyalty....giving the wounded customers a faint vision of hope...
finally they release a small update and the entire community goes 'wow' with excitement...like a virgin getting his first blowjob.
by that time..the phone has suffered scratches, has started showing signs of wear..which means very low re-sale value.
and meanwhile announcement for newer model is made...slimmer, sexier with more bugs which will be fixed via update over the next upcoming year.
good strategy for a short-term profit making....but they are losing brand loyalty.
i am not gonna buy SE Xperia Arc...ya its the sexiest phone on the market.
but its like a hot model u bang and can never have a healthy relationship with...coz she is dumb and full of flaws on the inside...such as daddy issues etc.
/rant
its like they keep us jumping over small small updates like a cat does to a string which the master will never let it catch.

but its like a hot model u bang and can never have a healthy relationship with...coz she is dumb and full of flaws on the inside...such as daddy issues etc.
epic comment
well it's true and from your perspective which one is better?
i know getting a big income is the main focus of any company but hey customers loyalty also counts. it's something i hate from sony in general, they keep pushing new tech every year and let the customer to feel outdated

Epic thread.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App

Couldn't have said it better myself, spot on mate!
Swyped from my ZDZ Froyo X10i

bang on, while i am happy with my x10 as it was my first droid comming from a long **** list of wm devices, i am also not going to be sticking with se, already contemplating the droid 2 global, yes se makes sexy phones but, im looking for something a little more with my next device.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

Funny thread
so what do you think about HTC's strategy with Desire ( Desire/HD/Z )
Just because they released a better handset after a year of the previous handset's release it doesn't mean that they do not care about brand loyalty...
so what? you want them to stick with the X10 for two years while other competitors advance with technology????
believe it or not, many will buy the ARC, even more that who bought the X10...
Next time, go buy an HTC or Motorola
and by the way, Samsung is locking their bootloader so do not buy a Samsung android so you won't end up whining like many here about unlocking it, unless you like samsung
but despite all that, I would like to thank you for the effort made by you to explain what many of us are not aware of.. it's a good practice for your uni
good luck mate with your studies

Nocturnal310 said:
i am a business management student...so i thought of sharing my perspective over how Sony Ericsson is playing the smartphone game...
by exagerrating a lot before the product launch ...and after the launch..giving small doses of updates so customers dont change phone in the hope of getting new features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I wish you luck with the business management, since your management of the English language makes me want to punch babies in the stomach.
Also, replace "Sony Ericsson" with every technology company ever and you have a point.
/thread

iead1 said:
Well, I wish you luck with the business management, since your management of the English language makes me want to punch babies in the stomach.
Also, replace "Sony Ericsson" with every technology company ever and you have a point.
/thread
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Click to collapse
Grammar and syntax of the English language is not the point of XDA in MHO...
Very well written, kudos to you Nocturnal310...

@Nocturnal310:
Of course you're right. But as someone said before, you could say this about any company producing technical stuff and you would be right as well. (I expect some very negative comments on what I'm about to say...). I understand your point, but I just don't think that SE is somehow different in their approach from any other company producing consumer goods (is that right? stuff which are bought in great numbers just to be replaced by newer models...you know, we have to watch out for our English, right iead1? ). Thats quite important because we just can't expect infinite support for our product, because sooner or later (the former is more probable) it will get replaced with brand new model with brand new stuff inside making it lot more attractive. The only thing we can complain about is, that the support may have last longer... thats true. But despite all of that, I'm still not changing the brand loyalty as I just dont know what else should I buy next time. I dont like Apple and their iStuff, also don't like HTCs because of how they look. Samsung is an option, but if I should choose between Samsung and SE just by looking at the phones, SE would definitely win (and with Samsung locking their bootloaders as well, I wouldn't help myself much by buying it). You may call me a hardcore fan of SE who doesn't think about what he's buying, but thats not me. I just think that X10 was an unfortunate mistake (which I personally still love!) of SE and I really hope they will learn from it for the reasons mentioned above.
Thats my opinion and I do not force anyone to share it, but I wanted to say it, because I just don't uderstand all that poeople saying how betrayed they feel by SE.

i think SE`s problem is that they don`t really know what they do,at least so far.
they use UIQ for a while then they leave it.
they use win mo,but after x1 and x2 they desided to go for android.
but now Android is very good platform and they should find their way.i hope so.
their main mistake is that they don`t care about customers and the weak points of their products.

I must add my mustard ...
There was a time long ago, Sony Ericsson created really nice phones with a solid build quality. My x10 is 3 weeks old and is making crazy noises when twisted a bit. The whole frame is not stiff enough.
If I saw it right on arc video presentations at youtube, the crappy timescape is now a widget and it is still choppy. This uggly blue is still there. Why blue? SE colors are Green and Orange. What a bunch of stupid designers ... I think w'll have a lot of alternatives out there with lesser crappy UI-Mods.

Well, I agree with most of your points, but let's remember: they're not ceasing support, they're launching a new model and planningto lock x10 customers in outdated Android. Motorola intended to do that too, but customers did such a big buzz that they changed their minds. The bull**** about low performance on Android 2.2 is already discarded, we can see that on all the unofficially built ROMs available at xda-forums. I risk to say that even Google has his part on this entire drama. Obviously, Sony Ericsson and their UXP loaded with much more processing hunger than x10 can support is the one we should blame, because we chose to buy SE, not Google devices (which are HTC, actually ). The removal of MediaScape from Arc tells us that they know where the problem is. Let's hope they fix this "problem" on x10 too.
I truly hope no one takes my comments personally, since I'm just expressing my opinion as a SE consumer. I still like them, but not how they use my money.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

Apple Iphone 3G is still getting latest updates - same day as the latest iPhone 4, not ALL the features because it's got old hardware but there aware of that.
SE should be aware of it to, yes x10 can run 2.1 2.2, 2.3 ect so they should. There opinion is why there not updating. (why not the majority, the users decide)
Why can't we get hardware based updates? HTC magic/hero got tons of updates..
Yes new models will come out, but it's the same OS to update, not that much off a difference, our devs do there work in spare time and takes 2-3 weeks to come up with ASOP OS, (which is what i prefer anyway). Imagine an entire DEV team full time? yes it takes more time for testing ect but still.....
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!

robbyf66 said:
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They say a lot. Saying and doing are not the same.

moacyrfilho said:
The removal of MediaScape from Arc tells us that they know where the problem is. Let's hope they fix this "problem" on x10 too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think they removed the mediascape app because it was so hard to new people to find the music player and photo gallery.
just think about it:
you have a new phone, and you would like to play some music, you first go to the music player but you can't find it because there is no music icon on the menu
Grab a samsung phone and try to play some music, the player is called "Music", the video player is "Videos" and the gallery is "Gallery"

robbyf66 said:
Apple Iphone 3G is still getting latest updates - same day as the latest iPhone 4, not ALL the features because it's got old hardware but there aware of that.
SE should be aware of it to, yes x10 can run 2.1 2.2, 2.3 ect so they should. There opinion is why there not updating. (why not the majority, the users decide)
Why can't we get hardware based updates? HTC magic/hero got tons of updates..
Yes new models will come out, but it's the same OS to update, not that much off a difference, our devs do there work in spare time and takes 2-3 weeks to come up with ASOP OS, (which is what i prefer anyway). Imagine an entire DEV team full time? yes it takes more time for testing ect but still.....
At least SE have reconized they F'd up. that's the first step!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are comparing with 2 companies with different calibers.
Apple - every designer/ad agency/design house/design school in this world purchase their 'godly' machines for work purposes. And these macs don't come cheap, mind you. With that amount of revenue, they can afford to create an iPhone, using their 'lagless' (yeah, right) macintosh reputations to breed a colony of iZombies to support their cause.
With the iZombies having the need to own a iAmagodlyproduct, with such supporters pumping money into their pockets, they can afford to offset any losses by being nice to
Update old iPhones even if new models are out, cos they know iZombies are already impressed with them playing the nice card and that they are confident that with their good reputation and a better new phone out, A majority of iZombies who have too much money to spare will still buy it. They are just giving an aww-I understand-you-can't-afford-a-new-phone-yet-so-I-will-update-you-periodically-so-that-you-will-come-back-to-me-when-you-have-money message to the poorer parties.
Now for Sony Ericsson (or just insert any other brand names). Let me ask you. Though they are an established brand, but let me ask you, how many people will own 1 of those expensive TVs or VAIOS? Comparing with Apple, no competition.
They don't have that much extra revenue to play nice. They can only strategize and try to earn as such as possible before their products become obsolete.
It's just like people like Donald Trump, who has so much money to play with, he can just give away to some random person on the street if he wants to. But if you try doing up a business yourself, would you give away your money to charity organizations, knowing that you cannot afford to spend the money that way? Most probably not. Unless you don't mind closing down your business due to losses.

All these threads are getting sooooooo repetitive!!! There should be one big sticky for anyone who wants to ***** and complain in any way shape and form about SE. That way this form isn't flooded with every thread turning into a SE bashing thread. It really is getting tiring logging on to see what's new and the first 50 threads are people *****in about SE.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

Lonelee - agree with much of what you say.. but it is also true that there are many many many people who go back time and time again to buy the next apple product BECAUSE they know that Apple will not leave the OS lagging behind on the old device when a new one comes out.. it's spectacularly good brand loyalty. SE (and many other) are taking a very short term view, and a missing a great opportunity to get us all on the hook for the next product..
In the UK for example, many phones bought on contract are free with a 2 yr contract tie in.. so if I know that they will look after me for 2 years, then I'll go back for more.. my contract's not due until Feb 2012.. so I'm eagerly awaiting to see their behaviour over the next 12 months!

well I m back on XDA after exiting from blackberry platform...blackberry provided me a stable messaging device for a while but as needs changed, it was very poor for browsing and getting work with attachments done.
i was at a party few weeks ago and my friend took out his Xperia Z claiming this is the best camera phone.
to his disappointment, it was the darkest blurriest pic i have seen whereas my lumia 920 took a pic with DSLR-like clarity and image characteristics.
i am not sure how much sony has improved but seems like they are still a market follower and using marketing dollars to brag about their phones that do not perform as advertised.
after having wasted my student savings on 2 of their phones, I regret and wish I had bought a better phone for my first android experience.

product lifecycle
Hi,
I am not sure if I should blame any company for moving to newer (and maybe better) products. In the android phone market we have the nearly unique situation to be able to get our hands and minds at the software which is driving the product, at least partly.
This is quite different from cars or coffeemakers.
What I would like to from Sony is that when they decide to abandon a product (eg X10), they open up the sources of drivers etc, so that interested people can maintain their products for themselves.
I can understand that they wont open up the sources for current products.
A.

[Custom Phones] [Open Source] Ideas Everyone!

UPDATED 1/7/13
1/7>Added a basic phone model structure layout to this
Hello,
I suppose laying out my business idea for others to take may not be great, but I wanted the communities opinion, since I would start this small and possible not for another year or so. Plus, if someone took the idea, I would be just as glad to see it.
I would like to manufacture two types of phones you rarely see on the market today (if at all)
First type, for the Dev and Tinkerer:
-These phones would be made as cheap as possible, with varying quality. I would like to keep the price as minimal as possible on these phones so that little profit is made, but that way I could get cheap open source devices out to the masses. Whether you want a cheap phone for the kids, or multiple devices for a dev team. Either way, the tricky part will be that I need to know how much to order, because the more I can get the parts in bulk, the cheaper it will be for me to make, and thus, for you all to buy. I am open to any ideas on making the casing, or if anyone has hardware deals or websites that would be good to use for a supplier, that information would be great!
Second type, Luxury:
-I like high quality items. I like fancy packaging, I like products made to LAST. These phones will counter the other devices by price greatly. While the cheaper phones I plan to offer at around $200-400, the luxury phones will be around $ 2,000-4,000. I do plan to profit off of these, but no more than to offset the low price of the cheaper phones. The luxury phones will offer premade designs and models, or more expensive, but entirely custom phones.
I plan to offer a lifetime warranty on the luxury phones. If we cannot fix it, half off a new device. I will also offer a limited warranty as well. I want you to have these devices as long as possible. I want easy to replace screens, modular hardware for upgrades or swapping out the internals but keeping the case (for expensive luxury shells).
The materials for the luxury phones would range from woods to metals like tungsten and titanium. For custom phones we would be open to any ideas you have. This includes extra additions like more buttons or notification LEDs. On phone model I plan for would make use of a set row of notification LEDs and buttons. We will also tailor the AOSP ROM installed on your device to how you want. I hope to be able to hire nice designers to theme the Android operating system to match your custom designed outer design of your phone.
Eventually I would like to venture into tablets yes, and if I start with small, side project type devices, I suppose most would be custom order. If you guys like the idea for the cheap phones I could try for a kickstarter if I can get the suppliers and employees lined up. That way we could order in bulk and deliver cheap devices to the masses.
A bit of me:
The reason why I wanted to do this is because I hate how devices built today are not meant to last. Aside from a few Nokia phones, things just seem cheap, plasticy. I personally would pay extra to have a nice metal shell and reinforced insides to my phone. I want to chose where my power and volume buttons go. I also hate the prices. I think for cheaper phones, we should pay less, and for quality phones, we can afford more.
The last thing, is stock ROMs. I hate them. I love AOSP, and I will work the Open Source feel into all the phones. You will have total control, and hopefully with the help of XDA, you can have a helpful community to help with all issues.I believe in personal costumer service, and if I come back to you in 2 years, I want you to saw your happy you bought a phone my team made, and that you would want to extend the devices life.
If you guys want to help, as questions, post ideas, make comments, feel free!
Basic:
-Price: As low as I can go! ($200-400)
-Internals: Mid range stuff, good enough to run everything smoothly, but the cheapest parts I can find.
-Shell: Possibly 3d printed plastic or other material that are cheap and still durable.
Starting line:
-Price: Around $400
-Internals, same as Basic, but possibly a bit better if requested, or just held in place more securely to survive more drops and beatings
-Shell: Car painting aluminum, steel, or other metals.
(for example http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dockplus/charging-dock-for-iphone-5 it looks plastic, but it's the paint. Very nice finish)
[I plan to offer basic customization options of these, and they may be around $500-600 if need be and could be a "flagship" phone to compete directly with other companies, although I assume the basic model alone will do that]
Luxury:
-Price: $1000-2000
-Internals: the reasonable best. Most likely a quad core processor, high amounts of storage (32GB or so). Internals here will be fairly customizable, possibly even tegra 3 chipsets if requested.
-Shell: TBA. These will be custom made cases, but ones that can be produced more easily, and we won't offer much of customer input for these. Most likely different cases ranging from wood to metal. Later on once we have a designer I plan to actually make drawings and have the community decide on the first wave of Luxury phones. Later I plan to make old custom models into luxury ones.
Custom:
-Price: $2000-4000
-Internals: Whatever they want. The best quality, everything internally will be ruggardized to take a beating. All components will be modular too, hopefully for luxury as well, for easy replacing of parts and screens, so you won't pay that huge up front price again since the case will be the expensive part of these phones.
-Shell: Literally, anything you can dream within realities laws. This is where I plan to have a skilled team, ready to make WHATEVER you want. Want LED trips so your phone lights a whole room the color of the rainbow when you get a text? Sure! Touch back panel? We can try! Extra buttons, yup!
Anything you can think of for a custom phone, we will try and make, and then quote you a price. This is the end goal of the company, and the phone manufacturing will probably start for the basic, and end with the luxury.

Not to be negative, but make sure you know what you're getting into ahead of time.
I did tons and tons of research not too long ago because I wanted to do something similar, and I ran into a lot walls with manufacturing. The mobile space is competitive and manufacturers are demanding. It's especially difficult when you're talking about custom designs.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA Premium HD app

rj88 said:
Not to be negative, but make sure you know what you're getting into ahead of time.
I did tons and tons of research not too long ago because I wanted to do something similar, and I ran into a lot walls with manufacturing. The mobile space is competitive and manufacturers are demanding. It's especially difficult when you're talking about custom designs.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I've realized. The thing is, I think I just need to line everything up, then pull the trigger and get funding. I realize this will be a difficult task, but my main goal initially will simply be the cheap phones. It's my goal and passion to get the world more technology, and I want to see more people learn to develop for said devices.
I've still been looking at screens, devices, and parts. To say the least, it is overwhelming.
So far, it seems I could at the very least bulk order cheaper generic phones after getting a retail license, recase them in something more durable and nicer quality, and then resell those for as cheap as I could. Right now though, it seems I should be able to get mostly assembled chipsets, and then could add in my own displays and buttons, but the displays that are easiest to get are replacement ones it seems.
This is a daunting task, and is a little beyond my reach. People do great things daily though, and more and more this project is becoming a passion of mine. If you have any suggestions or links, it would be appreciated. I'm hoping to at least get a couple custom phones made to play around with by myself.
I have a friend who will put me into contact with a metal worker, although that would be costly and I really only plan on metal for the luxury phones.
I appreciate the concern and, realistically this is far reached, but if someone doesn't try to do this, we will forever be paying top dollar for phones that are MADE to break on us.
My main hates on current phones are
-Price for quality
-Designed to fail over time
-Often times closed off to hackers
-Locked in bloatware
-Locked off OS
I want to remedy all these things and hope I can do so using AOSP software and most likely the phone designs will be Open Source unless I would need to have some secret patented tech, although I plan for these start phones to evolve out of the community and the availability of everything. I would also like for community input to go into designing and manufacturing the phones. The luxury phones will be a separate thing entirely, and have a different mindset behind them, but those are plans for a much later date.

I like your idea. I too have been thinking along these lines. Although quality, based on the HTC phones (Evo 4g, Evo 4g LTE) I own, hasn't been a concern. Features, both hardware design and software, are what motivate my desire for a custom phone. Not that I want anything extravagant, but no current phones have all the features I want.
I also realized the difficulty in such a venture. It would be nearly impossible to compete cost wise with other phones from big manufacturers. Custom phones would be the draw for customers willing to pay full price. But you also need to make sure the phones produced can be used on the chosen carriers networks. Most likely you'll need to obtain many hardware and software licenses. If you want to include Google apps/services then you also need to go through their validation process.
It's a massive undertaking to say the least. Especially in a market that is being flooded with iphones, TONS of android phones, and now the new windows 8 phones.
Also, in regards to the lifetimes of phones. The technology continues to advance rapidly, with new generations approximately every 18 months. New hardware, new software, new buzzwords, new hype. Unlike full sized computers, with so much different technology packed in to a tiny smart phone it's more important to keep current with the latest advances. Manufacturers know this drives consumers to look for new devices ever 2-3 years, which influences the life cycles of their product offerings.
I don't mean to discourage you, but it's a large, costly undertaking and any investors are going to want to know what will make your product successful enough to make them money. Especially in a market flooded with choices, filled with marketing hype and still sluggish in terms of overall consumer spending and economic stability. What will make your product stand out from the crowd?
-SLS-

iytrix said:
So I've realized. The thing is, I think I just need to line everything up, then pull the trigger and get funding. I realize this will be a difficult task, but my main goal initially will simply be the cheap phones. It's my goal and passion to get the world more technology, and I want to see more people learn to develop for said devices.
I've still been looking at screens, devices, and parts. To say the least, it is overwhelming.
So far, it seems I could at the very least bulk order cheaper generic phones after getting a retail license, recase them in something more durable and nicer quality, and then resell those for as cheap as I could. Right now though, it seems I should be able to get mostly assembled chipsets, and then could add in my own displays and buttons, but the displays that are easiest to get are replacement ones it seems.
This is a daunting task, and is a little beyond my reach. People do great things daily though, and more and more this project is becoming a passion of mine. If you have any suggestions or links, it would be appreciated. I'm hoping to at least get a couple custom phones made to play around with by myself.
I have a friend who will put me into contact with a metal worker, although that would be costly and I really only plan on metal for the luxury phones.
I appreciate the concern and, realistically this is far reached, but if someone doesn't try to do this, we will forever be paying top dollar for phones that are MADE to break on us.
My main hates on current phones are
-Price for quality
-Designed to fail over time
-Often times closed off to hackers
-Locked in bloatware
-Locked off OS
I want to remedy all these things and hope I can do so using AOSP software and most likely the phone designs will be Open Source unless I would need to have some secret patented tech, although I plan for these start phones to evolve out of the community and the availability of everything. I would also like for community input to go into designing and manufacturing the phones. The luxury phones will be a separate thing entirely, and have a different mindset behind them, but those are plans for a much later date.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand, as i was just like you. First and foremost, what's your background?
I believe a team can do this successfully, but not an individual. Are you interested in partnering?
SouL Shadow said:
I like your idea. I too have been thinking along these lines. Although quality, based on the HTC phones (Evo 4g, Evo 4g LTE) I own, hasn't been a concern. Features, both hardware design and software, are what motivate my desire for a custom phone. Not that I want anything extravagant, but no current phones have all the features I want.
I also realized the difficulty in such a venture. It would be nearly impossible to compete cost wise with other phones from big manufacturers. Custom phones would be the draw for customers willing to pay full price. But you also need to make sure the phones produced can be used on the chosen carriers networks. Most likely you'll need to obtain many hardware and software licenses. If you want to include Google apps/services then you also need to go through their validation process.
It's a massive undertaking to say the least. Especially in a market that is being flooded with iphones, TONS of android phones, and now the new windows 8 phones.
Also, in regards to the lifetimes of phones. The technology continues to advance rapidly, with new generations approximately every 18 months. New hardware, new software, new buzzwords, new hype. Unlike full sized computers, with so much different technology packed in to a tiny smart phone it's more important to keep current with the latest advances. Manufacturers know this drives consumers to look for new devices ever 2-3 years, which influences the life cycles of their product offerings.
I don't mean to discourage you, but it's a large, costly undertaking and any investors are going to want to know what will make your product successful enough to make them money. Especially in a market flooded with choices, filled with marketing hype and still sluggish in terms of overall consumer spending and economic stability. What will make your product stand out from the crowd?
-SLS-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People will pay for what they want. Phones differ from tablets and most other electronics because they're considered a must have by consumers. Therefore, no matter what the price is, it'll sell, as long as it's what people want. Sprinkle in a good marketing campaign, and you can make consumers want it.

I only heard of one project like this that made it's success and that's the pandora board. Perhaps getting hints from their community would help you alot on this project.
Here's a link to their wiki
http://pandorawiki.org/Main_Page
and official site
http://www.openpandora.org/

SouL Shadow said:
I like your idea. I too have been thinking along these lines. Although quality, based on the HTC phones (Evo 4g, Evo 4g LTE) I own, hasn't been a concern. Features, both hardware design and software, are what motivate my desire for a custom phone. Not that I want anything extravagant, but no current phones have all the features I want.
I also realized the difficulty in such a venture. It would be nearly impossible to compete cost wise with other phones from big manufacturers. Custom phones would be the draw for customers willing to pay full price. But you also need to make sure the phones produced can be used on the chosen carriers networks. Most likely you'll need to obtain many hardware and software licenses. If you want to include Google apps/services then you also need to go through their validation process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To address these, agreed. The only hardware thing I myself want, is a nav bar notification strip. I will explain it if I ever get to making phones, but even though I have one idea, I plan to let customers design the luxury phones HOW THEY WANT. For the hacker and dev phones, I will allow as much support as I can to allow people to do what they want. These phones are all about you, it's just whether you want to buy the basics and go from there, or have a team I put together make the best piece of tech you've seen. The pricing I'm certain I can meet, at least, the $600 tag. I have to make deals though, get OEM partnerships, and order in BULK for the cheaper phones. Unfortunately, that means it would be hard to solidify a price until I know how many I can order. Google I see no issue with, they are an amazing company thankfully, and I know a few people there so I'm not very worried about that, the rest, will be some time of work though.
SouL Shadow said:
It's a massive undertaking to say the least. Especially in a market that is being flooded with iphones, TONS of android phones, and now the new windows 8 phones.
Also, in regards to the lifetimes of phones. The technology continues to advance rapidly, with new generations approximately every 18 months. New hardware, new software, new buzzwords, new hype. Unlike full sized computers, with so much different technology packed in to a tiny smart phone it's more important to keep current with the latest advances. Manufacturers know this drives consumers to look for new devices ever 2-3 years, which influences the life cycles of their product offerings.
I don't mean to discourage you, but it's a large, costly undertaking and any investors are going to want to know what will make your product successful enough to make them money. Especially in a market flooded with choices, filled with marketing hype and still sluggish in terms of overall consumer spending and economic stability. What will make your product stand out from the crowd?
-SLS-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand the technology evolves, but I will build the phones to be as modular as possible. The main parts would be the board and the screen. So if you damage the screen, or a new tech comes out, we can replace it. Honestly, I still think a dual core 1.5ghz phone is better than a quad core because of the battery consumption, but we would change that out as desired (you'd pay for upgrades of course) but the reason for this is that you can keep your nice case, I don't expect a titanium case to because unusable in 2-5 years, and that would be a huge part of the price tag. So keeping a luxury phone could possibly end up saving you money if you take good care of it, but that's up to the user and their lifestyle.
rj88 said:
I understand, as i was just like you. First and foremost, what's your background?
I believe a team can do this successfully, but not an individual. Are you interested in partnering?
People will pay for what they want. Phones differ from tablets and most other electronics because they're considered a must have by consumers. Therefore, no matter what the price is, it'll sell, as long as it's what people want. Sprinkle in a good marketing campaign, and you can make consumers want it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately I don't have much of a background. Mostly just contacts, ideas, and passion to do a business right. Unfortunately, I am not much about making money, which makes things harder for partners and investors. My main goal here is to get the peoples phones to the people for a good price, and the secondarily, making the highest quality, and longest lasting phones on the market, and also be the first phone that you can customize how the whole phone looks and works with the designers, for a fee of course. I would like the high price of the luxury phones to offset the low price of the basic phones.
Though, yes, I do need, and would like partners. Right now I'm looking into
-metalwork
-graphic design
-coding
-engineer (or someone good with hardware)
For the entry level phones I was even looking into possibly 3d printing the shells for the phones. I would need metalwork to do the luxury phones though, as well as a coder and graphic design artists to customize the customers Android OS to look like they want, and also work with any buttons or crazy addons they put on their phone. I would also like someone who can be clever with our hardware. The more custom we can get with it, the more options we have, and the better we can push a product. I do realize though that depending on who or what I can get, I may have to settle for a basic board all ready to go, and putting a case and screen on it. I would not like to do that, but the limit is only physically what I am able to do. I planned to basically manage everything and help with design, customer interaction, and dealing with the community. The only person I have so far is a contact number for a metalworker I will try and contact, and I KNOW someone who could code Android from the ground up, but I haven't the slighest idea if he would actually start in this business with me.
If you have interest or partnership ideas, feel free to PM me, but this is a fledgling product, and I wanted a community reaction first.
Riyal said:
I only heard of one project like this that made it's success and that's the pandora board. Perhaps getting hints from their community would help you alot on this project.
Here's a link to their wiki
http://pandorawiki.org/Main_Page
and official site
http://www.openpandora.org/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, I will check this out! I would like "my" community to be XDA hopefully, since so many devs here already do things for android, and I think people would like completely open phones to try and do what they want with them, without the restrictions the big companies put in place like locking everything down.

iytrix said:
To address these, agreed. The only hardware thing I myself want, is a nav bar notification strip. I will explain it if I ever get to making phones, but even though I have one idea, I plan to let customers design the luxury phones HOW THEY WANT. For the hacker and dev phones, I will allow as much support as I can to allow people to do what they want. These phones are all about you, it's just whether you want to buy the basics and go from there, or have a team I put together make the best piece of tech you've seen. The pricing I'm certain I can meet, at least, the $600 tag. I have to make deals though, get OEM partnerships, and order in BULK for the cheaper phones. Unfortunately, that means it would be hard to solidify a price until I know how many I can order. Google I see no issue with, they are an amazing company thankfully, and I know a few people there so I'm not very worried about that, the rest, will be some time of work though.
I understand the technology evolves, but I will build the phones to be as modular as possible. The main parts would be the board and the screen. So if you damage the screen, or a new tech comes out, we can replace it. Honestly, I still think a dual core 1.5ghz phone is better than a quad core because of the battery consumption, but we would change that out as desired (you'd pay for upgrades of course) but the reason for this is that you can keep your nice case, I don't expect a titanium case to because unusable in 2-5 years, and that would be a huge part of the price tag. So keeping a luxury phone could possibly end up saving you money if you take good care of it, but that's up to the user and their lifestyle.
Unfortunately I don't have much of a background. Mostly just contacts, ideas, and passion to do a business right. Unfortunately, I am not much about making money, which makes things harder for partners and investors. My main goal here is to get the peoples phones to the people for a good price, and the secondarily, making the highest quality, and longest lasting phones on the market, and also be the first phone that you can customize how the whole phone looks and works with the designers, for a fee of course. I would like the high price of the luxury phones to offset the low price of the basic phones.
Though, yes, I do need, and would like partners. Right now I'm looking into
-metalwork
-graphic design
-coding
-engineer (or someone good with hardware)
For the entry level phones I was even looking into possibly 3d printing the shells for the phones. I would need metalwork to do the luxury phones though, as well as a coder and graphic design artists to customize the customers Android OS to look like they want, and also work with any buttons or crazy addons they put on their phone. I would also like someone who can be clever with our hardware. The more custom we can get with it, the more options we have, and the better we can push a product. I do realize though that depending on who or what I can get, I may have to settle for a basic board all ready to go, and putting a case and screen on it. I would not like to do that, but the limit is only physically what I am able to do. I planned to basically manage everything and help with design, customer interaction, and dealing with the community. The only person I have so far is a contact number for a metalworker I will try and contact, and I KNOW someone who could code Android from the ground up, but I haven't the slighest idea if he would actually start in this business with me.
If you have interest or partnership ideas, feel free to PM me, but this is a fledgling product, and I wanted a community reaction first.
Thank you, I will check this out! I would like "my" community to be XDA hopefully, since so many devs here already do things for android, and I think people would like completely open phones to try and do what they want with them, without the restrictions the big companies put in place like locking everything down.
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Click to collapse
Ok, now I see a viable plan starting to form. The only major issue I see is the pricing for custom phones. Of course luxury phones would cost, especially depending on the options. Probably not a HUGE market for these, but they would fall in to the high end of custom phones. For the developer/hobbyist (xda) market you would need a lower starting price, with reasonably priced add-ons. Over $1,000 for a BASIC custom wouldn't work very well. Consider anyone could purchase a dragonboard (qualcomm, snapdragon S4) fully assembled with housing and get access to some basic binaries or source code, for $1,000. Those are developer units.
I'm not trying to shoot down your ideas, I'm actually very interested in this. The biggest hurdle is sourcing the right parts for the right price and targeting the right audience. If those details can be worked out, then it's only a matter of writing up a good business plan, securing investors, and outsourcing much of the basic work for the cheapest price.
I have some additional ideas and a few resources. If your interested and truly serious, pm me and we can talk in greater detail.
-SLS-

I've been looking along one of these lines too - the cheaper custom phones. I've done some research and found that many Chinese manufacturers and some Indian manufacturers use a system where one company provides/facilitates mostly everything in software and hardware which both can be customized within certain limits.
Companies in China using this model has been able to release phones from their home office/workshop with <10 members as family businesses. This business model has been quite successful in developing nations with some of these companies (Micromax/Karbonn) overtaking bigger vendors like LG/Motorola in India. Qualcomm has a program like this I heard is quite popular among these Chinese & Indian manufacturers: https://qrd.qualcomm.com/ I think Mediatek and Spreadtrum also have such programs. You might want to try this to see how much it can help in your model.

Some guidelines :
Making these devices shouldnt be that expensive as per device as there are several factories in china willing to make these according to your specs but unfortunanetly u need an order from 1000-10000 Devices.
as for
-CPU , it aint the most expensive part as Tegra 3 , EXYNOS 4 Are pretty cheap to buy and these companies are willing too sell a smaller bulk ( it's often left overchips from other companies depending on the successrate as they make 1.4 million chips for a 1million order because of the failrate of making the chips. so the left over chips from the 400 000 that do work are what they sell out cheap/smaller bulk )
-Screen : and IPS 5.0 inch 1920x1080p Screen shouldnt be expensive either as many chinese cellphones for sub $350 dollars but i believe you can find a 4.3-4.7 inch 720p for a much better price if you want a smaller screen-
- Case: shouldnt neither be a problem but you have too make it your own design and have it fit perfectly
-board : you need someone to design your pcb board with all the powerchips etc
i believe the sum per phone should be around $400 depending but to be honest i rather buy a oppo or some other expensive chinese phone

Nick14 said:
Some guidelines :
Making these devices shouldnt be that expensive as per device as there are several factories in china willing to make these according to your specs but unfortunanetly u need an order from 1000-10000 Devices.
as for
-CPU , it aint the most expensive part as Tegra 3 , EXYNOS 4 Are pretty cheap to buy and these companies are willing too sell a smaller bulk ( it's often left overchips from other companies depending on the successrate as they make 1.4 million chips for a 1million order because of the failrate of making the chips. so the left over chips from the 400 000 that do work are what they sell out cheap/smaller bulk )
-Screen : and IPS 5.0 inch 1920x1080p Screen shouldnt be expensive either as many chinese cellphones for sub $350 dollars but i believe you can find a 4.3-4.7 inch 720p for a much better price if you want a smaller screen-
- Case: shouldnt neither be a problem but you have too make it your own design and have it fit perfectly
-board : you need someone to design your pcb board with all the powerchips etc
i believe the sum per phone should be around $400 depending but to be honest i rather buy a oppo or some other expensive chinese phone
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Click to collapse
Wow. Very helpful!
I planned to make the cases here. Probably offer 3d printed and polycarbonate options if 3d printing can get me decent cases at a decent rate. I feel like I could give out a few 3d printed cases for free since the big cost is really the printer.
The basic idea would basically be the chinese phones, but it would be local is the US, offering full support and service, plus I would have deals with google so nothing would be shady or questionable like it is with getting the chines devices. Plus everything would be fully open and supported for developers. If you did a crazy hardware mod and messed something up, we would still try and help you out. I really dislike the closed mindset of current companies
Thank you for the help though, very good information. I think at some point it would be nice to poll for what people want from a phone too.
Sent from my KFOT using xda app-developers app

I'd be interested in working with you on the hardware and software. I'm going into computer science later on this year, and I already have experience working with Allwinner chips, as well as some smaller ARM stuff. Shoot me a PM and we can talk.

reply
The very early Smartwatch

depending on the chassis size and power consumption... has anyone ever though about using a removable msata ssd in a phone for storage? right now you can find those up to 256 GB and possibly 512 and they are fairly compact but swappable. No sure what it would take to implement an msata controller setup into such a beast of if there is anything out there as such?

streetpounder said:
depending on the chassis size and power consumption... has anyone ever though about using a removable msata ssd in a phone for storage? right now you can find those up to 256 GB and possibly 512 and they are fairly compact but swappable. No sure what it would take to implement an msata controller setup into such a beast of if there is anything out there as such?
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Click to collapse
It would largerly depend on the size and cost. Current emmc flash chips are built on to the pcb taking up very little space. Current smart phones are about 85% screen and battery, 10% pcb, and about 5% enclosure. (I made those numbers up for this example, but it should be close) Then there's the issue of power consumption. I don't know anything about either one, but I would guess the emmc would be more power efficient. And finally there's the issue of firmware. You'd need to implement new code in to the proprietary boot loaders so they can access the different type of storage.
In short, it's probably doable, but the time and cost to develop are probably not feasible for a small start-up. Plus there's the question of efficiency which is very important for this application.
-SLS-

streetpounder said:
depending on the chassis size and power consumption... has anyone ever though about using a removable msata ssd in a phone for storage? right now you can find those up to 256 GB and possibly 512 and they are fairly compact but swappable. No sure what it would take to implement an msata controller setup into such a beast of if there is anything out there as such?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's pretty much things like this that we would love to look into once we got a truly custom phone department up. Eventually we would like to incorporate the best ideas into non-custom but still high end phones. SouL Shadow gave you above the best answer to if we can or will do it, and probably not until we had a cashflow going and more people to develop things like that for the custom phones. It's ideas like this though that never get made or done because no one cares to do it but I feel like certain types of people would pay good money to have us build them their ideas with them, plus it will be unique to you, and who else can say they designed their own phone?
SouL Shadow said:
It would largerly depend on the size and cost. Current emmc flash chips are built on to the pcb taking up very little space. Current smart phones are about 85% screen and battery, 10% pcb, and about 5% enclosure. (I made those numbers up for this example, but it should be close) Then there's the issue of power consumption. I don't know anything about either one, but I would guess the emmc would be more power efficient. And finally there's the issue of firmware. You'd need to implement new code in to the proprietary boot loaders so they can access the different type of storage.
In short, it's probably doable, but the time and cost to develop are probably not feasible for a small start-up. Plus there's the question of efficiency which is very important for this application.
-SLS-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this statement

Database Users

welcome