Related
Hi
I have read this http://htcclassaction.org/
If this is true???
It is true
there is no way to fix it with a cooked rom? or maybe with a cooked rom wm6.1??
I've just done a test with the Touch Dual against a Asus P526....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHOS7tE3AZM
gears said:
I've just done a test with the Touch Dual against a Asus P526....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHOS7tE3AZM
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really disappointed!
So this is the cause for choppy graphics when using things like PocketCM and S2U2?
mini_man said:
So this is the cause for choppy graphics when using things like PocketCM and S2U2?
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Yes
I really hope HTC does something about this.
Same.
It's a bit pathetic really.
I was just about to buy this device next week, but knowing this I'm nor that sure anymore. I really hope they fix it, and (from the looks of HTCClassAction) they will
Is this because of the graphics accelerator? I thought htc were going to make a fix?
Uh. Impressive. What the hell's wrong with HTC? Being the "biggest" is good enough, so they don't give a ****?
A partial reason for me to buy the dual instead of the original Touch was because I wanted optimal ****** performance, and then it turns out that we've been royally ****** probably because they want to save money?
I have a stupid question ... possible some guys have ask it in the Kaiser Related Threads ... have some guys look around for other device, they use Qualcomm Chipsets? Possible they works with HTC?
I Think Qualcomm is Evil too ...
NetrunnerAT said:
I have a stupid question ... possible some guys have ask it in the Kaiser Related Threads ... have some guys look around for other device, they use Qualcomm Chipsets? Possible they works with HTC?
I Think Qualcomm is Evil too ...
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Click to collapse
it has nothing to do with qualcomm, phones from other manufacturers that use the same chipset work perfectly, the only problem here is HTC's collective laziness in writing a fully functioning driver
Midget_1990 said:
it has nothing to do with qualcomm, phones from other manufacturers that use the same chipset work perfectly, the only problem here is HTC's collective laziness in writing a fully functioning driver
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Yeah.. I think ASUS P525 uses qualcomm but it functions perfectly.
HTC has been getting away with this since the TyTN... so now they've been doing it on all of their succeeding devices.
Update on htclassaction.org:
Update January 20, 2008: One person reported HTC support telling him an update would be released within a week. Let's wait and see!
Update January 20, 2008 #2: Another report has come on from that HTC support has said an update will be released January 28, no further details.
Update January 20, 2008 #3: One HTC support employee has stated that he guarantees they are working on fix for the video issues. It is unclear if by video issues only video playback is meant or the complete video driver package.
Another thread on Kaiser:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=359534
NICE! Too bad I was unaware of all these problems when I got my Touch Dual :\ it really is slow!
I also astonished how slow my Touch Dual is. I cannot believe that it takes to open a over 50 seconds to open 56 kb Word document. My Loox 720 PDA can open the same document in around less than 2 seconds. It certainly is not due to lack of free memory.
Word mobile is a business essential, not a multimedia toything and it should be capable of opening small documents quickly. The Loox is running WM2003SE and uses Pocket Word in which format the document is 115 kb. Is Word 6.1 slower than Pocket Word?
According to The Boy Genius Report, HTC isn't terribly interested in fixing the issue. This is the first response that has had any hint of officialness about it and it's not encouraging in the least.
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/01/22/htcs-official-response-to-drivergate-buzz-off/
Just saw this & thought it I would share........It actually gives me some hope!
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...ster-video-for-affected-devices-no-drivers-i/
It looks like I'll be keeping my Sprint Touch after all if they come through on their end.
I hope that this means those missing drivers were included after all an just not activated... if not, we're not going to see more than a marginal improvement. Could we just pay Qualcomm or something for the drivers individually?
Draiko said:
I hope that this means those missing drivers were included after all an just not activated... if not, we're not going to see more than a marginal improvement. Could we just pay Qualcomm or something for the drivers individually?
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From what Ive read though, HTC is saying that it had nothing to do with missing drivers.
Because it doesn't. There's no reason the phone shouldn't be able to play video correctly *right now* and anyone who's played with the various video modes of tcpmp can tell you that. In any mode other than DirectDraw, it plays perfectly. Forget about "drivers". If they're needed for hardware acceleration, swell, but the real problem is shoddy implementation of the DirectDraw interface. If they fix that, they've fixed the problem. Not that I expect HTC to fix anything, at least without breaking something else. I'm surprised those douchebags can find a door to get out of the house in the morning.
Ya Boi D said:
From what Ive read though, HTC is saying that it had nothing to do with missing drivers.
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I know... which means that either the drivers were included all along or that we're not going to get the boost we're expecting
I'll believe it when I'm using it...
You know, I might actually email qualcomm and ask them if they'd offer those missing drivers to us for a price... Since the entire thing was a money issue and it will take months to write or reverse-engineer a custom driver, why not use the power of money?
Does anyone have an "in" at Qualcomm? *desperation*
Yeah, like other people, we were hoping the drivers would enable the ATI Imageon hardware acceleration in the devices which should theoretically boost performance all around the device, not just certain aspects.
These 'other drivers' that are supposedly getting released look more like a better cache system that for the OS level and no other improvements.
--James
markgamber said:
Because it doesn't. There's no reason the phone shouldn't be able to play video correctly *right now* and anyone who's played with the various video modes of tcpmp can tell you that. In any mode other than DirectDraw, it plays perfectly. Forget about "drivers". If they're needed for hardware acceleration, swell, but the real problem is shoddy implementation of the DirectDraw interface. If they fix that, they've fixed the problem. Not that I expect HTC to fix anything, at least without breaking something else. I'm surprised those douchebags can find a door to get out of the house in the morning.
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I just got my Touch Voque this week.. And running TCPMP I can play xvids no probs.. Whats the best fps to encode the vids too... I've done 15 & 25.. both seem pretty good.. but opting for 15fps to reduce work load as quality is more than accepable.. I'd say stunning
Another good read... Qualcomm's MSM7500 sales pitch!
Draiko said:
Another good read... Qualcomm's MSM7500 sales pitch!
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Good find. Here is the article in it's entirety quoted from the actual page. All credits go to the original author.
Publication: Modem User News
Publication Date: 01-SEP-05
Delivery: Immediate Online Access
Author:
Company: QUALCOMM CDMA Technologies; QUALCOMM Inc.
Full Article:
QUALCOMM Incorporated (NASDAQ:QCOM) has begun sampling the dual-CPU MSM7500 (Convergence Platform single-chip solution, enabling the first generation of converged devices that combine popular consumer electronics with the advanced power of CDMA2000 1xEV-DO Revision A networks. QUALCOMM's MSM7500 chipset will transform the wireless device into the ultimate personal multimedia experience, enabling devices from high-end PDAs and Smartphones to cost-effective wireless computers to portable video players, music centers, gaming consoles and more. With the processing capacity to match the high data-speed capabilities of Rev. A networks, the MSM7500 chipset creates new markets for the world's most popular consumer devices --including an 8.0 megapixel digital camera, camcorder-like video recorder, VGA resolution gaming, support for major audio and video formats, plus a dedicated applications processor to support the BREW solution and third- party operating systems -- with an integrated single-chipset solution.
"The MSM7500 chipset brings the industry's best personal media experience to wireless, enabling faster, widespread adoption of the high data-rate services that operators and consumers want," said Dr. Sanjay K. Jha, president of QUALCOMM CDMA Technologies. "By addressing historical performance issues -- power, display, speed, form-factor, network support and multimedia functionality -- the integrated architecture of the MSM7500 chipset provides OEMs with a solution that does not require separate chips or processors to deliver the next evolution in high-end multimedia."
The MSM7500 chipset boasts a power-efficient design with a dual-CPU architecture that integrates an ARM11 applications processor and an ARM9 modem processor to deliver the processing power required to run on-demand multimedia content over high-speed Rev. A networks. The MSM7500 chipset will:
* Deliver high-end multimedia with the integrated Launchpad suite and BREW support
* Support high-resolution VGA displays and TV-out to turn wireless handsets into personal media players and leverage the viewing experience of television monitors
* Provide a high-end gaming experience with an embedded ATI 3D graphics engine that further improves the user experience with 3D user interfaces
* Expand the Smartphone market with support for Linux and other third-party operating systems
* Provide support for wireless peripherals such as WiFi, Bluetooth, QUALCOMM's FLO solution, as well as popular broadcast standards
The MSM7500 chipset supports QUALCOMM's Launchpad suite of advanced multimedia, connectivity, position location, user interface and removable storage functionality, and QUALCOMM's BREW solution, which enables the download and monetization of advanced applications and content, allowing operators and OEMs to differentiate their products and services and increase revenues. QUALCOMM's chipsets are also compatible with the Java runtime environment (J2ME) which can be built entirely on the chipset as an extension to the BREW client.
QUALCOMM Incorporated develops and delivers digital wireless communications products and services based on the company's CDMA digital technology. Headquartered in San Diego, Calif., QUALCOMM is included in the S&P 500 Index and is a 2005 FORTUNE 500 company traded on The Nasdaq Stock Market under the ticker symbol QCOM.
QUALCOMM Incorporated can be found on the World Wide Web at http://www.qualcomm.com/
For more information, call 858/845-7571.
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Now wouldn't it be nice if our service providers actually provided us with all of those nice features?
the issue is that anything labeled as "supported" isn't something that the OEMs are forced to include. However, the ATi Imageon is an integrated component, it is present in every single MSM7500 and that is what puts both Qualcomm and HTC into hot class-action-lawsuit-flavored water. Computer Lemon Laws protect people from false advertising and most of them state that a device MUST function as advertised/promised at the time of purchase. Every single product spec sheet for an MSM7500 device states that the MSM7500 is inside. The MSM7500's specs include an ATi Imageon and unless specifically stated by HTC, the unit is sold with the assumption that all "EMBEDDED" and advertised features of it's included components are available at purchase. If advertised features are not enabled at the time of purchase, then that is false advertising which means we can sue HTC under most Lemon Laws in place today. If the HTC insider interview at wmexperts.com is true, HTC could possibly sue Qualcomm for trying to charge more for a the MSM7x00 chipset's built-in features.
The only reason why companies provide free updates is to keep from getting sued under state computer lemon laws.
March 10, still nothing.....
h311boy said:
March 10, still nothing.....
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Thanks sherlock.
where did the march 8th date come from anyways?
-mark
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that was meant to be read March 2008 although it does seem like March 8th being that the Mogul update was released on the 10th. Wish somebody could modify it for the Vogue and get the GPS working... Hopefully HTC will release a lot more for the Vogue very soon!
Check it out:
HTC Says Software Fix is Coming For Lousy Video Drivers
Is this real? I know it is only a software/driver fix, but it is better than not...
rumors, rumors and more rumors.
There are countless rumors for and against this claim. No one here knows for sure.
It looks to me like this thread will be yet another source of baseless rumors...
EDIT: Ah, that was supposed to be a link. Perhaps post the correct link to the article you are referring to, and we can discuss that. Right now, the link is http://HTC Says Software Fix is Coming For Lousy Video Drivers, which is obviously not a proper URL.
Dishe said:
rumors, rumors and more rumors.
There are countless rumors for and against this claim. No one here knows for sure.
It looks to me like this thread will be yet another source of baseless rumors...
EDIT: Ah, that was supposed to be a link. Perhaps post the correct link to the article you are referring to, and we can discuss that. Right now, the link is http://HTC Says Software Fix is Coming For Lousy Video Drivers, which is obviously not a proper URL.
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Fixed... Here is the meat:
Some of our top engineers have investigated video performance on our devices and have discovered a fix that they claim will dramatically improve performance for common on-screen tasks like scrolling and the like. Their fix would help most of our recent touch-screen products including the Touch family of devices and TYTN II / Tilt, Mogul / XV6900. The update is in testing and we hope to release it soon. However this fix is not a new video driver to utilize hardware acceleration; it is a software optimization. Video drivers are a much more complicated issue that involves companies and engineers beyond HTC alone. We do not want to lead anyone to believe they should expect these. To explain why we are not releasing video acceleration instead of the optimization I offer you our official statement... "HTC DOES plan to offer software upgrades that will increase feature functionality, over the air wireless speeds and other enhancements for some of the phones being criticized, but we do not anticipate including any additional support for the video acceleration issues cited in customer complaints. It is important for customers to understand that bringing this functionality to market is not a trivial driver update and requires extensive software development and time. HTC will utilize hardware video acceleration like the ATI Imageon in many upcoming products. Our users have made it clear that they expect our products to offer an improved visual experience, and we have included this feedback into planning and development of future products. To address lingering questions about HTC's current MSM 7xxx devices, it is important to establish that a chipset like an MSM7xxx is a platform with a vast multitude of features that enable a wide range of devices with varied functionality. It is common that devices built on platforms like Qualcomm's will not enable every feature or function. In addition to making sure the required hardware is present, unlocking extended capabilities of chipsets like the MSM 7xxx requires in-depth and time consuming software development, complicated licensing negotiations, potential intellectual property negotiations, added licensing fees, and in the case of devices that are sold through operators, the desire of the operator to include the additional functionality. To make an informed decision about which handset suits them best, consumers should look at the product specification itself instead of using the underlying chipset specifications to define what the product could potentially become."
I was at this conference. Take a look at what is inside the Mogul, Vogue, etc (aka Convergennce platform) chipset: (The second half talks about the graphics capabilities)
http://brew.qualcomm.com/brew_bnry/pdf/events/brew_2005/t202_ligon_qualcomm.pdf
It is difficult to be angy at HTC, as just about every HW vendor does this: The retail channels and the manufacturers want product diversity, but Qualcomm can't design all that many chips (a full chip design is expenive), nor can they build a wide diversity of fab plants so they just disable parts or leave out drivers.
The question that no one can answer due to NDA's is who exactly is holding them back? I.e. it may be that Qualcomm didn't license the accelerator for this part from ATI or that HTC didn't license the rights to from Qualcomm.
Either way, a gdi/direct draw driver for the basics is not a massive undertaking. We aren't asking for DirectX 10 suport.
awandkk said:
To make an informed decision about which handset suits them best, consumers should look at the product specification itself instead of using the underlying chipset specifications to define what the product could potentially become."
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Here is the thing.... when I looked at what specs were available to me when I bought my Mogul, they looked better than my Wing. I expected better video performance than a 2 year old phone. What they said sounds like back peddling.
Sounds to me like all they are going to do is a quick software optimization which they will call a video fix, when in reality, it has nothing to do with the video hardware inside the device.
They are just releasing this and calling it a "video fix" to get all the people like us who want full functionality to shut the .... up about it.
We has given up?
cstyle226 said:
We has given up?
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Most likely. One of those "believe it when you see it".
that pdf is such a teaser so my phone is as powerful as ps2 and i cant use it thats just messed up and you know all the hardware their cause its integrated.This sucks cause i never play games cause they always play horrible. htc is so responsible for the iphone gui blowing away any other phones.
http://www.htc.com/www/faq_detail.aspx?p_id=249&act=um
Is it normal for HTC to supply an english manual specifically for a device without GPS? Or does that mean that some english speaking countries are getting something like the Tomtom demo with one city map of your choosing installed?
Why does it say VGA recording only available in some models?
Does this mean the english OS does not have this because of some patent / chip restrictions?
If so I better cancel my order for the english OS and get the danish one.
elmalote said:
Why does it say VGA recording only available in some models?
Does this mean the english OS does not have this because of some patent / chip restrictions?
If so I better cancel my order for the english OS and get the danish one.
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No VGA recording may be intended for the north americian version, that was the reason that there was a dispute over some Qualcomm chips shipping into the US wasn't it?
shuflie said:
No VGA recording may be intended for the north americian version, that was the reason that there was a dispute over some Qualcomm chips shipping into the US wasn't it?
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What happens if Qualcomm chips get shipped into the US? Is Qualcomm ment for Europe?
elmalote said:
What happens if Qualcomm chips get shipped into the US? Is Qualcomm ment for Europe?
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That's why they have two version of their processor/system-on-a-chip:
the MSM7200A, which support VGA encoding at 30 fps
the MSM7201A, which is exactly the same except it does not support VGA encoding at 30fps (I think it is [email protected], [email protected]), due to patent problems with some american companies. All devices with 7201A are targetted for selling in the US (although some may end up in europe), while no 7200A device should be sold in the US (although I guess some grey market and private sales may end up bringing 7200A to the US).
TD2 is now exclusively with MSM7200A, so not for US. I guess the version with US 3G which is due later will include 7201A...if Qualcomm has not solved the patent problem since then (unlikely, as their 7200 line is at the end of its life)
gkai said:
That's why they have two version of their processor/system-on-a-chip:
the MSM7200A, which support VGA encoding at 30 fps
the MSM7201A, which is exactly the same except it does not support VGA encoding at 30fps (I think it is [email protected], [email protected]), due to patent problems with some american companies. All devices with 7201A are targetted for selling in the US (although some may end up in europe), while no 7200A device should be sold in the US (although I guess some grey market and private sales may end up bringing 7200A to the US).
TD2 is now exclusively with MSM7200A, so not for US. I guess the version with US 3G which is due later will include 7201A...if Qualcomm has not solved the patent problem since then (unlikely, as their 7200 line is at the end of its life)
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That means that all TD2 sold now are with VGA 30 FPS as I understand from what you are writing? And later there will be a specific 7201A for the US?
Expansys-usa.com is also selling the 7200 processor version
http://www.expansys-usa.com/d.aspx?i=179176
?
elmalote said:
That means that all TD2 sold now are with VGA 30 FPS as I understand from what you are writing? And later there will be a specific 7201A for the US?
Expansys-usa.com is also selling the 7200 processor version
http://www.expansys-usa.com/d.aspx?i=179176
?
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It should....or maybe HTC has decided to use software limitations to not use the 7200A abilities to record [email protected], because they figured out that would be sufficient to avoid patent litigation in the US, without having to build 2 different hardware versions with the associated problems in stock management? That would mean that 7201A would not be used anymore, and also that cooked roms (or just installation of non-US roms on US TD2/TP2, but then u have to deal with US radio with roms for non-US radio...) could easily bring video recording performance of US devices up to foreign versions. Anyway, I advise you get a 7200A version (US or foreign), which will have (or will be software upgradable to) good framerates for VGA video recording...
Surely HTC knows that using only software limitations, it would be hacked instantly
I got the English OS version, it says processor is Qualcomm 7200A.. I live in Denmark, so I assume I'm getting the European version and not one shipped from the states which has limitations..
elmalote said:
Surely HTC knows that using only software limitations, it would be hacked instantly
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As long as it does not bring them patent litigations, they would not care....In fact, I guess they would be all for it (while not giving any support nor warranty for non-official roms), if it means they sell more devices...
I got the English OS version, it says processor is Qualcomm 7200A.. I live in Denmark, so I assume I'm getting the European version and not one shipped from the states which has limitations..
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I am almost sure you will have the version with better VGA recording. As no official US models exist yet, no point in crippling the VGA recording at the moment...
I think you are right about HTC wouldn't mind at all
And I hope so too, thanks a lot
Missing programs
Well reading the manual it appears that HTC has removed the following programs from the Diamond 2
Adobe Reader LE
Voice Recorder
Voice Speed dial
GPRS monitor
Sprite backup
ZIP
Which where all available on the original Diamond. Is there anyway to get the "Adobe Reader LE" some other way?
sm_allen said:
Is there anyway to get the "Adobe Reader LE" some other way?
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Not really an answer to your question, but imho pocketxpdf is much better and free. It always opens documents for me Adobe LE can't open. Adobe LE drove me nuts!
sm_allen said:
Well reading the manual it appears that HTC has removed the following programs from the Diamond 2
Adobe Reader LE
Voice Recorder
Voice Speed dial
GPRS monitor
Sprite backup
ZIP
Which where all available on the original Diamond. Is there anyway to get the "Adobe Reader LE" some other way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Enjoy
WM-Adobe_PDF_2.5_Diamond.cab
http://rapidshare.com/files/222629809/WM-Adobe_PDF_2.5_Diamond.cab
WM-Foxit PDF -1.4.0901.cab
http://rapidshare.com/files/222630812/WM-Foxit-1.4.0901.cab
Adobe Reader LE 2.5 is present on the TD2 already.
andyturner said:
Adobe Reader LE 2.5 is present on the TD2 already.
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It is indeed!
I wanna buy a topaz ,i live in Asia and intended to move to US ,does Asia topaz's 3G works in US?
does Asian and European topaz different ? (because there is different files for download in htc User Manual for "English (Asia)" and " English" ) !!!!
what am i supposed to do?
is there any way to add
Voice Recorder
Voice Speed dial
back onto the diamond 2 as they seam to be missing?
Hi
I am considering the Desire Z and was interested if one will be able to watch DVB-H TV on it. I know that the MSM7230 chipset supports it, but it does not appear anywhere in the DZ specs.
I am assuming that Qualcomm supports it, but HTC have not licensed this module? Could there be any custom ROMs in the future that might add the necessary drivers?
Bump !!!
This would be ******* awesome, in theory, if it's there, you can enable it, but, you will need a hack, and some kind of driver. Just guessing, because till now, nobody have hack nothing more than a FM Radio or a Bluetooth module, but, let the developers own one first, then, when 2 months have pass, we have root, CM 6 or 7, audio hack, OC, and some other super user tricks, then, just then, start thinking seriously about this topic.
Remember, first, we need root.
It is very unlikely anything like this happen. Yes, the chip maybe supports it - but without the supporting equipment on the board, without the antenna, it's useless. So you can stop thinking about it.
MSM7230 supports it and apart the surely missing antenna you don't even know if the required pins are soldered on the board.
IMHO this will never happen and it's obvious that I can be wrong, but I can say that I'm pretty sure of what I'm saying...
faugusztin said:
It is very unlikely anything like this happen. Yes, the chip maybe supports it - but without the supporting equipment on the board, without the antenna, it's useless. So you can stop thinking about it.
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kholk said:
MSM7230 supports it and apart the surely missing antenna you don't even know if the required pins are soldered on the board.
IMHO this will never happen and it's obvious that I can be wrong, but I can say that I'm pretty sure of what I'm saying...
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Are you both sure that the antena is missing ? Because till we didn't know that by fact, we can't say that will never happen.
santimaster2000 said:
Are you both sure that the antena is missing ? Because till we didn't know that by fact, we can't say that will never happen.
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An antenna would cost money to include, why include a part for a feature that isn't available? That would just be wasting money.
santimaster2000 said:
Are you both sure that the antena is missing ? Because till we didn't know that by fact, we can't say that will never happen.
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If the support was there, why would HTC not advertise it in the product specs ?
steviewevie said:
If the support was there, why would HTC not advertise it in the product specs ?
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For marketing reasons The next phone will use the same chipset, but will have "more features". As far as I remember P3600 owners one morning woke up with an in-built GPS that they never bought
I realize however that in this case we have likely both hardware & software limitations that might be hard to overcome.
Similar to the Diamond/Touch Pro case where the chipset supports hardware graphic acceleration (Qtv), but it was never licensed for these devices and the available drivers were pretty limited as far as I remember.