Database Users

Why different CPUs in Wizard and Apache?

Hi!
The Apache comes with the "well known" Intel PXA270 CPU that runs on 416 MHz.
The Wizard has this "sloppy" TiOMAP CPU that runs on 200 MHz.
Why did they use this "sloooow" CPU on the GSM-version of the device?
Will there be an Apache for GSM? What platform will the upcoming vodafone VPA compact 2 be (I heard something of "HTC Prodigy"?!)
ARGH!
Who nows the "secret"?
Greetings
plant

Secret is Clock Speed DOESNT EQUAL actual speed.
The wizard will do more calculations per cycle (like AMD processors). It means roughly the same performance for less power and less battery consumption.
There are benchmarks somewhere that shows Wizard out performs the Magician.

BigDamHero said:
Secret is Clock Speed DOESNT EQUAL actual speed.
The wizard will do more calculations per cycle (like AMD processors). It means roughly the same performance for less power and less battery consumption.
There are benchmarks somewhere that shows Wizard out performs the Magician.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But I can only found benchmarks of Java on Wizard vs Magician, it seems that the benchmarks of Java not fully represent the speed or precessing power of a CPU.

Yeah you have to take into account that they are different types of CPU, so their speeds can't be directly related. I am very impressed by the Wizards speed. I find it often to be faster that my Magician.
The only area where I find the Magician was a fair bit better is video playback. I use TCPMP, and it has optimizations for Xscale, so the Magician beats it in that area.

BigDamHero said:
There are benchmarks somewhere that shows Wizard out performs the Magician.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then show me THIS benchmarks.
I only can give you a link where nearly *everything* outperforms the Wizard! It looks like a desaster performancewise...
http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/htc-wizard-en.shtml
Greetings
plant

Those benchmarks just don't match with my ACTUAL experience using the device. It is no way as slow as those benchmarks would have you believe. Mine is consistently as fast as or only slightly slower than my XDA Mini was, definately not as drastically slower as those benchmarks show.
It is definately not a disaster performancewise if you configure it properly, using progs that support WM5 and don't install the AV software.

Hi!
How fast runs Navigon Mobilenavigaor 5? It's quite ok on my Magician but I think the Wizard will make it even more sloppy. It's ok that it *feels* fast at OS use - but how fast *is it really* running software that actually needs high performance like MN5 or TomTom 5?
And one question remains: Why are they using the PXA270 in the US-Version of the Wizard (Sprint PPC-6700)?
Just my €0.02
Greetings
plant

The PPC-6700 is not a version of the Wizard, but a different device called Apache. It has a different design than the Wizard, including the Xscale processor, use of EVDO/CDMA instead of quadband GSM, different keyboard and an external antenna.

plantagoo said:
Hi!
How fast runs Navigon Mobilenavigaor 5? It's quite ok on my Magician but I think the Wizard will make it even more sloppy. It's ok that it *feels* fast at OS use - but how fast *is it really* running software that actually needs high performance like MN5 or TomTom 5?
And one question remains: Why are they using the PXA270 in the US-Version of the Wizard (Sprint PPC-6700)?
Just my €0.02
Greetings
plant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The SBP Benchmark comparisions are meaningless as the Wizard uses a totally different CPU architecture (i.e. dual core) and file system to the others. It's real life experience that counts. TTN5 on mine takes slightly longer to load than the Magician (because of the non volatile memory), but once it's running I barely notice any difference. Sure, if you want high frame rate video for games, look elsewhere, but for day to day use as PDA / Phone / GPS / MP3 player it's every bit as good as the Magician - but with much better battery life, and no risk of you losing all your data if you forget to charge it!

Yes, the battery life is absolutely awesome on this device!!! It lasts much longer than my Magician did, and that including use of WiFi!

is qtek 9100 faster then qtek s100?

thanx

no way. s100's processor is 412 Mhz, and 9100's processor is officially 195, but actually is 185. so, s100 is twice as fast as 9100 :!:

U have to remember that the 9100 is a dual core processor.

so?

Mhz does not usually mean faster. Take Intel and AMD for example. Even though Intel has higher clock speed, it is not faster than AMD.

Just to drive that point home, at work a client started an unofficial benchmarking of systems, and results include
- an AMD Athlon64 3000+ at 2GHz, single core, single CPU... let's say this machine's speed is '1'
- an Intel Core Duo T2400 at 1.83GHz, dual core, single CPU... it's almost 2.5 times as fast.
That said, the OMAP may be dual core, but it's not 'dual core' like desktop/notebook processors. The two cores each specialize in different parts. You might notice that, for example, it's easier to multitask on these chips - while video playback won't see any performance boost and is likely to be slower.
Depending on your needs, your mileage may vary.

Omap 850 go 195 Mhz because it's downgraded by HTC for safety reason (they reply me like that) Processor is only 200 Mhz but for radio is performed by another chip.... i have both and Wizard isn't speed as Magician.

I find Sony Ericsson P900 at 153mhz to be much faster and responsive than any XDA. Although that's probably more to do with Microsoft's sketchy OS than the processor.
I think the Wizard overclocked to 264mhz is much fater at moving around the OS than a BlueAngel at 400mhz, but like someone said above, it's not so good at video playback.

re
in this case, my CPU is set to - 264MHZ are there any problems
to stay on this MHZs /battery, cpu lifetime, errors and accidental
shut downs/ ?

To compare use benchmarks (TCPMP for example)

darkheroz said:
in this case, my CPU is set to - 264MHZ are there any problems
to stay on this MHZs /battery, cpu lifetime, errors and accidental
shut downs/ ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi most people find it more stable at 240Mhz omapclock speed (260Mhz true as measured by sktools) but if it is stable for you - thats cool.
Hey guys this old x-scale vs omap thing has been bashed out numerous times!! Please for our sanity no more!! :wink: Anyhow looks like x-scale is being dropped by intel.

Hi,
I have seen benchmarks on this site, but I dont know in what topic.
In summary, the wizard is almost twice as fast as the magician, and the xda executer is twice as fast as the wizard, I have seen those benchmarks but I dont have the link. Also my wizard proves day after day that it is not slow at all, any game or CPU intensive program runs smoothly just the way you like.
So, dont be misled by the frequency measure, it is unfair to compare two different architectures only with regard to clock speed only, even a small improvement in the cache technology, or the pipeline design could bring massive performance advantages to the system's processor performance.
Regards,
Mohammad

no, the wizard is slower than the magician. i have both so i know. one thing is the processor even though it is dual core (one for pda, one for phone). the other reason is the way the os manages memory, with wm5 using persistent storage rather than having things ready on ram. this is running both without overclock that is.

This is not neccesserly true, maybe wm2003 OS is much lighter than WM5, its like comparing two identical desktop computers one is running windows 95, the other is running windows2000 and claiming that the one that runs windows 95 is faster. From my point of view (as a computer engineer) Benchmarking is the only trustful way to tell.
Another thing is that dual coring the processor has removed the overhead of managing the phone hardware by the main core, and this is definitely an advantage!!!
Another plus for the OMAP processor is that it consumes less power, and we all know that the most important resource for handheld devices is power, afterall, if you want to compare the actual CPU speed you have to run benchmarks on both devices, regardless of how the magician seems to be faster.
So lets search for benchmarks and put what we get here.
-------------------------------------------------
Update:
I found the benchmarks, enjoy!!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=27512&highlight=benchmarks

i have my 9100 from today (used a s100 for one year.)
the 9100 reacts quicker to start,browsing...
only TT loading takes a few seconds longer

can p3600 be overclocked?

can p3600 be overclocked?
thank you!!!!!!
PS. I have the pocketpchack4 and I overclock it to 450Mhz but I want more.......................!!

nope.. pocketpc hack doesn't really work. If you run benchmarks at 200, 400 and 450 mhz, you'll get the same readings. So far, nothing out there can really modify the cpu speed.

As far as I know, there's no working program so far.

hi,there are news?
i'll want overclock my device.
the p3600i have the same processor of p3600?it work @500mhz...good...!

p3600i dont have the same cpu as p3600
the cpu speed is set by the crystal and multiplier
if the multiplier is not able to change using software
one cant overclock

Rudegar said:
p3600i dont have the same cpu as p3600
the cpu speed is set by the crystal and multiplier
if the multiplier is not able to change using software
one cant overclock
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and then I can't overclock...bad bad bad...
it's impossible have cpu 500mhz...?
I think that was the same processor...

only the same processor as a pentium 1.4Ghz and pentium 1.8Ghz is the same processor
overclocking is running the component in this case the cpu out of specs
how many overclock a cpu can handle before freezing up varies alot
and can shorten it's lifespan and give alot shorter battery lenght

overclocking

hi, is there any way to overclock the processor on the xperia?

By over clocking do you mean take the Xperia beyond its theoretical headline Limit of 528 mhz ?
I have looked at this but the new processor does not seem to be supported by many of the commercial solutions avaliable.
However SpeedBooster posted on the Turbo Speed X1 thread, allows you to set higher processor priority for the programs you choose, giving them a larger slice of the processor pie, its not overclocking as such, but it does make the processor work faster for the programs you choose.
I have used it for a few days with no serious problems, howvere having the processor running faster will drain battery faster, I have noticed this, but it is within acceptable limits for my needs,
I prefer the extra performance over the extra miliage.

Can you do a benchmark and post the results?
Would help a lot to start making a comparison between devices.

Is this what you're looking for:

Toshiba TG01 Interface Port to X1?

Hello Devs!
It is possible and if, how long we must wait for a porting TG01 Interface for X1?
With best reguards

its barley running fast enough on a device that is more than double the speed of our 400mhz cpu on the x1
even if some one ends up porting it ( i give it 2 weeks untill someone posts it in the dev and hacking forum), i dont think enough people will use it considering how it did in the reviews
the omnia2/pro interface is more useful and everything in windows interface is re-skinned and finger friendly. too bad its not as cool looking as tf3d

With that slow ass processor? Not a chance...

THE GRIZZ said:
its barley running fast enough on a device that is more than double the speed of our 400mhz cpu on the x1
even if some one ends up porting it ( i give it 2 weeks untill someone posts it in the dev and hacking forum), i dont think enough people will use it considering how it did in the reviews
the omnia2/pro interface is more useful and everything in windows interface is re-skinned and finger friendly. too bad its not as cool looking as tf3d
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought the X1 has a 528 MHz CPU

poetryrocksalot said:
I thought the X1 has a 528 MHz CPU
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Click to collapse
it does but is underclocked i think to 400mhz

man you have to check this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=536178
tg01 has monster cpu and gpu ,i benchmarked the device and i dont see any chance for the interface to come to xperia (propably it use gles 2.0,its not supported by xperia).
cheers.

daiash said:
it does but is underclocked i think to 400mhz
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Click to collapse
I don't think that it's underclocked...nobody has ever said that it was underclocked.....so why are we finally saying this now?
And how do we make the make the CPU 500 MHz?

poetryrocksalot said:
I don't think that it's underclocked...nobody has ever said that it was underclocked.....so why are we finally saying this now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i compared to touch diamond 2 which almost have the exact same specs and the 528mhz and everything is noticeably smoother and faster. the game Xtrat is so much smoother and does not suffer from jerkiness when the screen is full of things. the Core Player benchmark is constantly %18-%20 faster on the td2 while testing the same thing
i tried to overclock it but got nothing

THE GRIZZ said:
i compared to touch diamond 2 which almost have the exact same specs and the 528mhz and everything is noticeably smoother and faster. the game Xtrat is so much smoother and does not suffer from jerkiness when the screen is full of things. the Core Player benchmark is constantly %18-%20 faster on the td2 while testing the same thing
i tried to overclock it but got nothing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
would be nice to get it running at full speed, i use spb ms 3.1 on standard r2 rom and dont have any complaints, but if your gonna run emulators etc.... and tf3d on your x1 it's a shame because it can be so damn slow at times.

THE GRIZZ said:
i compared to touch diamond 2 which almost have the exact same specs and the 528mhz and everything is noticeably smoother and faster. the game Xtrat is so much smoother and does not suffer from jerkiness when the screen is full of things. the Core Player benchmark is constantly %18-%20 faster on the td2 while testing the same thing
i tried to overclock it but got nothing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think this is more about htc optimizing there handsets and having better drivers. i think SE did not look into this as it was there first handset and htc used it to there advantage (instead of informing SE that the hardware could be better used).