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thanx
no way. s100's processor is 412 Mhz, and 9100's processor is officially 195, but actually is 185. so, s100 is twice as fast as 9100 :!:
U have to remember that the 9100 is a dual core processor.
so?
Mhz does not usually mean faster. Take Intel and AMD for example. Even though Intel has higher clock speed, it is not faster than AMD.
Just to drive that point home, at work a client started an unofficial benchmarking of systems, and results include
- an AMD Athlon64 3000+ at 2GHz, single core, single CPU... let's say this machine's speed is '1'
- an Intel Core Duo T2400 at 1.83GHz, dual core, single CPU... it's almost 2.5 times as fast.
That said, the OMAP may be dual core, but it's not 'dual core' like desktop/notebook processors. The two cores each specialize in different parts. You might notice that, for example, it's easier to multitask on these chips - while video playback won't see any performance boost and is likely to be slower.
Depending on your needs, your mileage may vary.
Omap 850 go 195 Mhz because it's downgraded by HTC for safety reason (they reply me like that) Processor is only 200 Mhz but for radio is performed by another chip.... i have both and Wizard isn't speed as Magician.
I find Sony Ericsson P900 at 153mhz to be much faster and responsive than any XDA. Although that's probably more to do with Microsoft's sketchy OS than the processor.
I think the Wizard overclocked to 264mhz is much fater at moving around the OS than a BlueAngel at 400mhz, but like someone said above, it's not so good at video playback.
re
in this case, my CPU is set to - 264MHZ are there any problems
to stay on this MHZs /battery, cpu lifetime, errors and accidental
shut downs/ ?
To compare use benchmarks (TCPMP for example)
darkheroz said:
in this case, my CPU is set to - 264MHZ are there any problems
to stay on this MHZs /battery, cpu lifetime, errors and accidental
shut downs/ ?
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Click to collapse
Hi most people find it more stable at 240Mhz omapclock speed (260Mhz true as measured by sktools) but if it is stable for you - thats cool.
Hey guys this old x-scale vs omap thing has been bashed out numerous times!! Please for our sanity no more!! :wink: Anyhow looks like x-scale is being dropped by intel.
Hi,
I have seen benchmarks on this site, but I dont know in what topic.
In summary, the wizard is almost twice as fast as the magician, and the xda executer is twice as fast as the wizard, I have seen those benchmarks but I dont have the link. Also my wizard proves day after day that it is not slow at all, any game or CPU intensive program runs smoothly just the way you like.
So, dont be misled by the frequency measure, it is unfair to compare two different architectures only with regard to clock speed only, even a small improvement in the cache technology, or the pipeline design could bring massive performance advantages to the system's processor performance.
Regards,
Mohammad
no, the wizard is slower than the magician. i have both so i know. one thing is the processor even though it is dual core (one for pda, one for phone). the other reason is the way the os manages memory, with wm5 using persistent storage rather than having things ready on ram. this is running both without overclock that is.
This is not neccesserly true, maybe wm2003 OS is much lighter than WM5, its like comparing two identical desktop computers one is running windows 95, the other is running windows2000 and claiming that the one that runs windows 95 is faster. From my point of view (as a computer engineer) Benchmarking is the only trustful way to tell.
Another thing is that dual coring the processor has removed the overhead of managing the phone hardware by the main core, and this is definitely an advantage!!!
Another plus for the OMAP processor is that it consumes less power, and we all know that the most important resource for handheld devices is power, afterall, if you want to compare the actual CPU speed you have to run benchmarks on both devices, regardless of how the magician seems to be faster.
So lets search for benchmarks and put what we get here.
-------------------------------------------------
Update:
I found the benchmarks, enjoy!!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=27512&highlight=benchmarks
i have my 9100 from today (used a s100 for one year.)
the 9100 reacts quicker to start,browsing...
only TT loading takes a few seconds longer
I ask because different roms and kernels offer different benefits. Some allow you to overclock. Some allow you to get high Mflops running Linpack.
Mflops is a measure of how fast calculations are being performed (forgive my butchered definition). Mhz is how fast info is being processed. Which is king?
For example, I can underclock my processor to save battery life, but am using a ROM that generates high Mflops in Linpack. OR, I could overclock my processor for performance on a ROM that does not generate high Mflops.
Which would be faster?
My next question is: Do Mflops really matter? From Wikipedia:
"...a hand-held calculator must perform relatively few FLOPS. Each calculation request, such as to add or subtract two numbers, requires only a single operation, so there is rarely any need for its response time to exceed what the operator can physically use. A computer response time below 0.1 second in a calculation context is usually perceived as instantaneous by a human operator,[2] so a simple calculator needs only about 10 FLOPS to be considered functional."
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If once a certain Mflop is reached the calculation seems "instantaneous," then who cares if they are higher than instantaneous? Will we ever really "perceive" the benefit of 50Mflops on our phones?
Anybody that can shed some light on this for me? It would be much appreciated!
For every-day use, you will notice a much larger impact with the higher clock speed.
TheBiles said:
For every-day use, you will notice a much larger impact with the higher clock speed.
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What other use is there? Do you mean that processor speed is more important for speeding up the UI?
I would like to see an intelligent answer to this question with data or at least a solid theory to support it.
i may not be able to provide you with an engineers answer
but imma say... the one that sucks up less battery and provides fast calculations is the winner. so a 500mhz proc running higher flops would be my best decision
heck, i dunno.
That increase in mflops is from jit compiling java apps. The core os and browser are already native as are 3d games. They might speed up some from less java overhead.
MHz is not a measurement of "how fast info is processed", it is the clock speed of the processor. All it signifies is the rate at which the processor performs its operations. 1,000 MHz means the CPU has 1,000,000,000 cycles per second. Some operations will take one cycle to perform, other operations will take several cycles. Most software, unless it is exceptionally well written (in assembly language, which I don't believe can be executed on android) will require millions of CPU operations to perform whatever task it is trying to perform.
Increasing your clock speed while keeping all other things equal will increase all of your computing power and should give a useful gain in performance.
Linpack measures numeric floating point calculations. This is one of many types of tasks that a CPU must perform. Linpack is not an overall measurement of system performance, it's a measure of pure numeric (floating point) processing power. I have no idea how some roms manage to improve Linpack that dramatically, and you'd need to know that in order to truely answer your question. It seems likely to me that it's just a floating point optimization method that gives the higher scores, in this case floating point operations are the only things that would be improved.
The simple answer is that it depends what you want to do with your phone. If you do something with a lot of floating point calculation (3d games are an example, but they would typically use 3d hardware acceleration rather than cpu power, I'm not sure exactly how the snapdragon is designed so I'm not sure that they are not one and the same), you would get more performance out of the system with the higher linpack score. The higher clock speed on the other hand would provide you more overall benefit, it would make everything faster instead of just one area.
mhz doesn't necessarily mean speed. It's a easy, barely valid way to compare speeds to like model and generation processors only.
Platform independent benchmarks are much more important and reliable for judging speed. Therefore, a 500mhz processor that performs 20mflops is faster (at least in floating point operations) than a 1000mhz processor that performs 10 mflops.
Also realize, floating point operations per second are only one small part of a computer's performance. There's Specviewperf for Graphics performance, for instance, or general performance benchmarks like the whetstone or dhrystone.
Lets me see if I can shed some light:
In a basic processor you have 4 general tasks performed: Fetching, Decoding, Execution, and Writeback.
Processor clock rate (despite what people think) is not indicative of speed. It is an indicator of the number of wave cycles per second. Depending on the amount of work per cycle that a processor can do, then determines the "speed" of a processor. For instance an Intel 3ghz processor may be able to execute 100 integer calculations per cycle for a total of 300 billion calculations per second; but an AMD 3ghz processor could be able to do 200 integer calculations per second effectively making it the more efficient and "faster" processor.
A perfect example of this is the Hummingbird vs Snapdragon debate. Two processors at the same speed, yet Samsung claims the Hummingbird is faster due to the higher amount of work per cycle that can be executed.
The next step in the chain then comes when determining the types of calculations performed. An AMD processor may work better with a customized Linux based system that uses a higher level of floating point calculations, while an Intel processor may be better suited to a Windows system that uses a high level non-floating integers.
The next question is this: does your phone, a Linux based system use a high enough level Floating Point operations to make a difference in overall performance?
Google apparently does. However, Floating Point operations are simply a generic benchmark of a single facet of the operating system as a whole. Less wave cycles per second will decrease the overall potential of work, thereby decreasing performance in cases where the work needed to be executed exceeds the number of available waves.
Therefore, I would vote for the higher processor speeds, unless the only programs you execute use Floating Points.
Scientific enough?
Feel free to PM me with questions, or post here...
There are other factors that greatly affect processors as well, such as latency, BUS speed, and RAM available for buffering, but I didn't want to do an information overload.
~Jasecloud4
Sorry, I was assuming we were talking about the same processor (namely, the EVO's) clocked at two different speeds. It would make sense that the slower clock speed vielded more Mflops if it had JIT enabled, but I still think you would find the UI snappier with a higher-clocked ROM without JIT.
I notice a greater speed improvement from jit more than a faster processor speed. Especially with apps that have to load your whole system like autostarts. Battery life however, I'm still learning about. With Damage and being OC'd battery life was great. I'm currently on the latest CM nightly with jit and setcpu. We'll see how that compares.
Sent from my EVO using xda App
Quick off-topic question, then we'll get back on topic. Does the CyanogenMod build have the FPS broken?
TheBiles said:
Sorry, I was assuming we were talking about the same processor (namely, the EVO's) clocked at two different speeds. It would make sense that the slower clock speed vielded more Mflops if it had JIT enabled, but I still think you would find the UI snappier with a higher-clocked ROM without JIT.
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lol you say that as if you dont actually know it...
deep inside we both know it though...
but seriously, both of biles' post on P1 sum up the question from the OP. Trust us
Tilde88 said:
lol you say that as if you dont actually know it...
deep inside we both know it though...
but seriously, both of biles' post on P1 sum up the question from the OP. Trust us
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a computer engineer, so I at least like to assume that I know what I'm talking about...
This thread is comparing Apples to Oranges. If the number of waves per second on a processor is increased, then the number of floating point calculations will increase, if every other factor remains the same.
It stands to reason that when two systems, one at 500MC/psec is pitted against another at 1000MC/psec with both systems running the same OS and JIT enabled, the one running at 1000MC/psec will have a higher number of floating points calculated.
~Jasecloud4
jasecloud4 said:
This thread is comparing Apples to Oranges. If the number of waves per second on a processor is increased, then the number of floating point calculations will increase, if every other factor remains the same.
It stands to reason that when two systems, one at 500MC/psec is pitted against another at 1000MC/psec with both systems running the same OS and JIT enabled, the one running at 1000MC/psec will have a higher number of floating points calculated.
~Jasecloud4
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True, but I don't think we're talking about identical ROMS, since different ROMS have different abilities to OC and/or run JIT.
dglowe343 said:
I notice a greater speed improvement from jit more than a faster processor speed. Especially with apps that have to load your whole system like autostarts.
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Running the nightly CM Froyo ROM right now and Autostarts is also the only app I have perceived to have a significant speed improvement from JIT. It really is the 2-5x faster that Google claimed JIT would be, but I've yet to see any other apps that benefit as much as Autostarts. Everything else seems the same as a non-JIT 2.1 ROM.
Haven't tried any games since getting the phone though, so can't give any feedback on those.
I think another poster in the CM Nightly rom thread compared his browser to his brothers 2.1 ROM phone, and the browsers were just about the same speed wise as well.
Given that feedback, I'd say for general usage a higher clock speed is better than lower clock speed and higher Mflops.
How has this thread gotten so long without the word "frequency" mentioned once? You guys are making this way too difficult. In 1 GHz, the Hz is the unit for frequency, which just means cycles per second. If you want a simple analogy, imagine a hamster running. His legs are moving up and down and forward at a certain frequency. You're running, too. Let's say that you are running at the same frequency. Who is getting somewhere quicker? Obviously you are because your legs are longer and stronger and you have a better power to weight ratio. Processors can behave the same way. Some simply get more done than others when operating at the same frequency for various reasons. This is why looking at only frequency is useless. Instead, we look at the work that it can do. Flops (floating point operations per second) is one measure of the work that a processor can do. There are many other ways to measure performance. This is just one of them.
Why do we want faster processors? It is partially so that we can be faster, but mostly so that we can do more. If you were to run the OS from phones 10 years ago on the hardware of today, most operations would be essentially instantaneous and with smart power saving features, you wouldn't need to charge it but once a week or less. But today's phones do far more. We need those higher speeds because even when you're sitting there looking at the home screen and "not doing anything", the OS is running dozens of services in the background to keep everything working correctly. Imagine if we were to take a modern engine and put it in an econo car from 30 years ago. It would go like hell and be incredibly efficient but it wouldn't have the safety, comfort, or features that we've come to expect with a modern automobile.
Sprockethead said:
Quick off-topic question, then we'll get back on topic. Does the CyanogenMod build have the FPS broken?
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Yes. I avg 50-55 fps.
Sent from my EVO using xda App
jasecloud4 said:
This thread is comparing Apples to Oranges. If the number of waves per second on a processor is increased, then the number of floating point calculations will increase, if every other factor remains the same.
It stands to reason that when two systems, one at 500MC/psec is pitted against another at 1000MC/psec with both systems running the same OS and JIT enabled, the one running at 1000MC/psec will have a higher number of floating points calculated.
~Jasecloud4
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um yea, but have you ever OC a video card for example?
lets take my old nVidia 8800gtx...
just because I overclock my core speeds doesnt mean that my memory bus will also be up'd, (of course the option is there but for the sake of the thread we'll ignore that)
Sure, now itll be able to process things much faster, but it cannot render as quickly as its ciphering, buffering, processing... etc...
like biles said, up the CPU for snappier user interfacing, up the flops for lets say, vb compiling ...
im not at my most sober points right now, so if you cant comprehend what im saying, think of the 'core' speed as the CPU, and the 'bus' speed as mFLOPS ...
and well gaming and rendering effects can see an improvement through JIT, but only if the said app or whatnot was built with JIT. otherwise it would be like upscaling a standard DVD to 720p. and seeing as how 3d rendering is after all native, how much more gfx tweaks do we need?
so now that the latest beta of siyah kernel supports enabling/disabling of the 2nd core, and tegrak already released an app for it, i just want to know the possible effects in performance/battery if you use the different options of the 2nd core app.. especially when we use the single core option.. so what will happen to our phone when we run HD games, and im sure that it will extend the battery life, just not sure how the phone will behave with only 1 core running.. and will it be bad for our phone to only run at a single core..
and also, am i right to assume that our phone has the option "dynamic hotplug" by default?
Shouldn't see much of a decrease in the performance. The sgs has a single core yet the cpu can still handle anything thrown against it. Point being there is nothing out that demands dual core performance. On another note note, hd games are not actually gd. It is just advertising point for game developers.
$1 gets you a reply
Using one core instead won't break your cpu. It gonna make your phone cooler ( ! core is running producing less heat and the heat dissipator is made for the dual core ) and have a better battery life obviously. It will, obviously too, slow down your phone, but the speed lost is to be determined. You might want to test it out to see if it's getting laggy or simply suck. As already said, the SGS I has a 1Ghz proc and can handle most of the top recent content available so with a 1.2 Ghz single core, you should be able to handle everything available, specially with an optimized kernel like siyah. And you are right, the default mode is dynamic hotplug, which use both core when needed and turn the core 1 ( 2nd core ) off when not needed.
I tried playing a little with it. The overall smootness doesn't change and i get about the same fps in nenamark2. The only game i saw stuttering a little more in single mode was Shadowgun, the others are just the same. I also have the feeling that cpu noise is reduced while playing music through headsets when you run on single.
I like the idea of switching off one core. But while using only one core this leads to a higher load on that corse. This will result in higher frequencies an thus higher battery consumption?
So might using only one core even be worse for battery life?
I mean isn't that the reason why you use multiple cores? That one does not have to produce cpu with high frequencies? I think I once read that the energy a cpu uses it proportional to the frequency squared. So it is not a linear relation. That means two cores on 500 MHz are using less power than one cpu on 1000 Mhz. Can someone confirm that? So if th os is optimized for multiple cores the energy consumptions will be less.
What do you think or know about Android. Is it managing two cores intelligently an thus reducing energy consumption or are we doing better with switching off one core?
Hi,
is anybody out there who can share any experiences with this 2nd Core app?
It would be very interesting whether it really saves battery(and if yes, is it noticeably or is it a huge difference)? Are there any negative effects in speed oder stability?
Rgds
I don't particularly care about potential battery saving, but I use it to manually disable one core while playing games which have problems with SoundPool ( see http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=17623 ), such as Galcon, as this mitigates the problems.
Schindler33 said:
I like the idea of switching off one core. But while using only one core this leads to a higher load on that corse. This will result in higher frequencies an thus higher battery consumption?
So might using only one core even be worse for battery life?
I mean isn't that the reason why you use multiple cores? That one does not have to produce cpu with high frequencies? I think I once read that the energy a cpu uses it proportional to the frequency squared. So it is not a linear relation. That means two cores on 500 MHz are using less power than one cpu on 1000 Mhz. Can someone confirm that? So if th os is optimized for multiple cores the energy consumptions will be less.
What do you think or know about Android. Is it managing two cores intelligently an thus reducing energy consumption or are we doing better with switching off one core?
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totlly agree
Hi,
I have run into some results from users showing that overclocking is indeed counter productive on the s4 as it would bench lower due to throttling as a result of overheating. Has anyone else actually benefited from overclocking it? If so let's see some screeniez actually proving that it is worth to overclock and at what point the throttling begins to take effect from CPU overheating.
Ward
i had very good resoults but with overclocking gpu not cpu. Everyithing was smoother with overclocking GPU, so i recommended that you overclock GPU and you will get best resoults for daily use. Otherwise overclocking CPU is still good but dont promise any real life perfomance, i have overclocked mine for like 200Mhz along with gpu and get best possible resoult for daily usage. But i can tell you that battery is not happy about this U need powerbank in you pocket to get through day.
Compared to my stock Note 10+, my stock S4+ is so slow it's not even worth comparing.
You only have so much to work with... better architecture, faster chipsets and memory make substantial improvements in the newer platforms even with no overclocking.
At least until Android 10, then things start going to hell... scoped storage sucks.
So far Pie is the Android OS's zenith in my opinion.
Hey
I was wondering if anyone was playing around with changing CPU speed. I noticed that 6P may not overheat but that's only because it throttles. I was wondering if shuting down two of its main cores would enable the other two run faster thus achieving better overall performance.
I was just wondering if apps actually use four cores? Or is it better to have two, faster ones.
You can use whatever combo you like really, but you'll need an editor [like kernel auditor] and root to do so.
I know I was just wondering if anyone actually did this and had any results to share. At the moment I'm almost convinced to do root so when I eventually do it I will try it out and share with the community.
I mean there's no real disadvantage, somewhere. You just cap your max performance, within reason.
Some people go with a hexacore setup and disable 2 of A57 cores and runs just fine...all about CPU task load.